Gospel For Asia: A Whistleblower Comes Forward - Our Stories

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my very special guest, Ralph Jessperson, former member of Pentecostalism, Keres Mania and the Vineyard Churches. Ralph, it's good to have you on and I'm a little bit excited for today if you can't tell because you're very much like me. You're a whistleblower and I don't get too many people like that who are on the show so very excited to have you. Maybe if we could just you know

as a broad overview I'll say that we're talking about one of the biggest religious scams that I've ever heard of. It's massive what you're about to talk about and it involves everything from the Calvary Chapel churches to Frances Chan to Mark Driscoll. We're talking about a very wide-reaching story and a lot of people were scammed by this. So very glad to have you on as a whistleblower. Before I start I think legally I'll say this. The research that you're about to give is not research that we have been involved with or share.

However in the description I'll put some links that you have put so if anybody questions what you say they can you know go on the go on the web and they can find most of what you say I've looked at some of it and legally I can't say but it appears to be in order so I'll say it like that. Maybe if you could start and just tell everybody a little bit about yourself. I've been a Christian since I was five brought up in a charismatic church led by a episcopal priest who was kicked out of the organization for wanting to bring the charismatic stuff in and I've

spent as time in that charismatic church until I was 18 and seven years in a non-traditional AOG church two years in a vineyard and then 17 years in a church that was involved with the Toronto blessing thing. Before I got there and I was involved with a IHOP related wannabe prayer group in a little town for a number of months so I have a lot of broadings.

variance. We know from one whistleblower to another. It's, it's really difficult. Whenever you know something is wrong and you look around and not everybody can see what's wrong. But deep inside, you know it's wrong. You know that people should be made aware. And if you have the personality like me, you just can't sit still. You've got to tell people. So I'm, I'm assuming that's similar for you, right? Ah, yes. And I am like you. I am a very deep slow thinker. Very, very logical. I'm an ultra logical kind of person. And so in the midst of all the things that I went

through and experienced, I can't just ignore things that are going on that are wrong. Having experienced all of these movements, I'm sure you have a lot of, a lot of knowledge that not a lot of people have. Some people will join one of these sects and they'll just be in it.

But what I have learned in examining all of these groups is that you find weird similarities between each of them. And if you can understand the framework that caused that similarity, you understand the architecture of the movement. And that really gives you the bigger picture. So I'm, I'm interested to pry into your head since you're a critical thinker as well. Yes. And I have to thank you for all the video work that you've done and your website as well.

Because just in the past couple months, I think it's put a whole lot of light. I would say the exact same thing that you just said. And it actually makes sense going all the way back to John Alexander. Where a lot of this stuff just comes from. So you reached out to me via email and we started going back and forth. You're sharing some of your information with me. And you said that you had a sizable scandal to tell about. And so I invited you on the podcast. So let's, let's get into it. What was this scandal? This is the biggest scandal that I'm aware of.

I would put it on par in what you're saying that the Dowee did over a hundred years ago. This is just as big. Wow. But I'm going to start the story with how I learned about them.

So my story starts after graduating college with an IT business degree. So I got a degree in as a computer systems analyst business related. And after graduating, a friend suggested to me that I should do a short-term mission trip using my new skills. And in our church that I was in at the time.

There was an attendance, the presidents of a mission's org called Harvest. And so I started meeting with him weekly, and he soon gave me a list of a couple of good orgs to choose from in his opinion.

So I had these choices, which one of these orgs I was wanted to go and volunteer at short term. And in this list included a very small gospel for Asia back in the early years.

Now I ended up choosing a different choice, but this is where the problem started. This man that I was meeting with, the president of Harvest, he was deceived about what it was, what it really was.

And because he was deceived, then he promoted it to me to be something for me to be involved in, which doubled his air. This was in the spring of 88. And the short of that story was that he brought up a proposal before that church for them to fund my short term mission trip.

And that was located in McCormick Ranch, Scottsdale, Arizona. So there was a whole lot of money. That is a wealthy area. But the board got it down. So I'm familiar with the Scottsdale area, and I'm familiar with the Arizona tax code.

So I know exactly what you're saying in between the lines. There's actually a lot there if somebody really wants to understand it. But let's talk about, so we're talking about the gospel for Asia.

And you came in contact with them. What was it that really lured you into them? So now I'm going to fast forward in the story. Some years in the 1990s, I got a job, I bought a house, I got married.

And somewhere in there, after all that happened. I found a gospel for Asia literature again. And I decided to give to their native missionary support program that they had. That was their biggest part of what they did.

It wasn't the only thing they were raising funds for. But it was the biggest part of what they were raising funds for. And I will explain that. I heard you in Charles. talking about how you could Create a message church in India for $10 a month once upon a time Right, and their program was very similar. This was the 90s now, so for $25 a month. This was a spin for $25 a month. I could support a native missionary and And in working a couple hours a week, I could give that money Or just a couple hours in a month rather I could give that money to

Them and then they would give it to the native missionary and then he would go out and preach the gospel in the boonies in India somewhere and I would have my own personal Even though I didn't know the language and I wasn't there. I could

Create this huge impact on India just by sending in my $25 a month and so that's what I did. I

Contacted them. I gave them my first check and they sent me back a letter a handwritten letter in English with a picture and this was the picture of my native missionary that I was supporting and the letter explained

Who he was and basically what he was doing more or less and so then I continued to give for years That $25 a month and I think eventually it increased to $35 a month and

So I gave that amount every month thinking that I was having this major impact in India. So again We're talking about the gospel for Asia, which was founded by K. P. Johanon and I know the listeners are dying to know So how does this tie to you mentioned in your emails Calvary Chapel? How did how did this movement tie to Calvary Chapel?

I saw K. P. live at my Calvary Chapel church. I was going to in Phoenix So they brought them into speak Wow and and I share that because Chuck Smith was And this needs to be linked on your website Chuck Smith was a big time promoter of gospel for Asia and so the major group Of people that he was raising money from was the whole Calvary Chapel denomination So this ties Chuck Smith to the spreading of the movement the gospel for Asia and Looking at the Calvary Chapel congregations as donors to fund the movement. I'm sure that's not the only source because they

had their magazine and then they had internet websites and so anybody in the West could have found eventually found the information once their website went live because I was in Calvary Chapel and you'll even see that the KP started an operation mobilization and they eventually came out a man who worked in the early years with him from operation mobilization and he even mentioned Chuck Smith as well as the major time promoter of this. So you were brought into this thinking that you were supporting a good charitable organization a good cause furthering the gospel spreading the gospel and then came to realize that

not everything really is what they said it was. What was that like? How did how did that come to be? I had this thought that I could support somehow some good Christian org that was doing something that I related to something that I thought was important. This ended up being the second worst mistake I have ever made as an adult and I cannot emphasize that more. I would later learn that by knowing Jesus Christ personally and simply functioning in my God-given gifts, I was already involved in the biggest thing that exists. The true body of

Christ functioning as it was designed to and in that I was able to blow the whistle on not one but two big charity frauds which is a far greater thing that I ended up doing than all the free IT work I could have done in any Christian charity or church you might think of. Oh wow so not just one scam but you're talking multiple scams. So I considered moving to Carleton, Texas where their GFA headquarters was in an ideological move because if I was nearby and I had free time then I could go volunteer there or if I was nearby I could somehow

support and do other things that I couldn't do from a thousand miles away. Now what it ended up happening is I ended up moving instead to Bartlesville, Oklahoma to help out the voice of the martyr's organization which turned out to be an even worse scam. Oh wow they the twists and turns man so tell me how did you learn that this was a scam. We got unpacked we started looking for work and then because of the reason I was there we decided to take a day off of the job search pretty early on.

volunteer. So my ex and I we both went in and we were packing blankets to be shipped overseas for a part of the program that they had. And while we were there doing that, we met a couple in the spring of 2003, this other couple returned for another volunteer episode.

And when they came, they came to visit me and we compared notes as they were also seeing red flags from their own particular point of view, which was very different than mine. And so I introduced them to gospel for Asia because I had all their paraphernalia that I could share with them.

So let me try to wrap my head around that and in a way that the listeners can follow. So you were brought into a scam, we'll call it scam A. And then in another situation altogether, you were bringing another couple into a different scam, we'll call it scam B. So in the same way somebody was bringing you into scam A, you were bringing another couple into scam B. Am I getting that correct? I was promoted to scam by a president 15 years prior to that. And because he promoted that, I was aware of it. And then later on, I went on to donate and give a bunch of money to it.

And now I was doing the same thing he did. And I ended up unintentionally ruining an entire decade of someone else's life. And so because of that, I no longer promote ministries or orcs.

My best friend had promoted the VOM scam to me, showed me their literature and introduced me to that. A number of years earlier, and it ended up costing me dearly. That's part of the other story.

And even while paying that price, I did the same unfortunate thing for this poor couple. And just to be clear for the listeners who are unaware, these scams that you're talking about, these were religious operations that were advertised in churches as religion, right?

Yeah, these are promoting voice of the martyrs, Christian charity, for those who are

persecuted across the, well, mostly the third world. And with GFA, the promotion of the gospel in India and in other places. All right, I think I'm getting it now. So it's like a cascade of scams.

So somebody brought you into a scam and they You know, they probably didn't know it's not their fault that that this happened So they they brought you into the scam and you're you're a part of it You're donating you're giving your money while doing this There's another scam that's happening and you're excitedly bringing somebody else into it and they're They're they're getting involved now. So what was that like how did how did they come to accept the second scam?

This is how they got involved with the scam the second scam Because they already were involved with the VOM scam The next trip they took they drove past my town and went Down to Texas to do the same kind of volunteer trips At gospel for Asia now. So they stopped doing voice of the martyrs and they started doing gospel for Asia They did that more than once then they were asked by leaders there to raise support And move and come on staff. So this was a scam that involved physical labor I'm somewhat familiar with KP Johan and and some of the I've read through some of the lawsuits

We're talking and it's not a small number. It's in the millions of dollars that the lawsuit was involved with So it wasn't just money people were donating time to that is that correct he refused to Raise money and pay it to the secretaries and The common little people dealing in the mail room and all the other support staff He made everybody go out and raise support Just so that he that they could go there and Give their two-year minimum period of time working in there So KP Johan and didn't even pay his support staff And that was true back in 88 in my day

And that's the reason I would have had to have raised support and I didn't choose to do that route because The org was way too small and I didn't think that My that would be a good use of my skills back then But that's how cheap it was So he asked the this couple to raise support and That's what they did I started receiving quarterly emails from them asking people sending it out to their

For them to raise support so that they could go there and The ministry wouldn't have to pay them basically so basically Like some churches have where they're they've got outreach programs and they set up missionaries where the missionaries can go out into the field So this was a an organization that was working in collaboration with other groups you mentioned Calvary Chapel and there's some others that were Gathering funds to send myth missionaries overseas and this couple became, I guess, missionaries.

They moved out of the home that they had built and rented it out and moved down to Texas and they were there for two years. And then I kept getting quarterly emails from them while they were there, what was going on.

And then suddenly I got this quarterly update after the two years saying that they were leaving but they were following KP's right-hand man who was starting a spin-off ministry called SIM, Serve India Ministry.

And he needed some people to get in the ground floor and so he chose them because no one else was interested, apparently. And so this man and the two of them, they started this brand new ministry doing the exact same thing that Gospel for Asia claims to do.

And then this continued, I continued getting the quarterly updates, they continued with the support, so people were supporting them, so the SIM didn't have to pay their salaries. And this continued, I think, for six or seven years until I got an email from them saying that they were leaving.

After finding hard proof that SIM, this new ministry, was lying to the donors about where the man was going. And his book, Combat and Cult Mind Control, Dr. Hassan talks about how these groups, as the authoritarian structure forms, they like to keep people occupied because if they're occupied, they can't critically think.

And so one of the ways in which they do this is through the free help that they require from some of the members. Some of the more authoritarian structures will have people actually work for free and they get nothing in return, really.

But they're doing, quote unquote, God's work and all the while their mind is occupied and so they can't critically think enough to leave. There are other groups that are just as authoritarian, but they don't physically occupy the mind.

Instead, they want you to do mental strains and you can read Combat and Cult Mind Control and you can get most of that. But what they don't really cover in a lot of these books is the situation that you're describing where the cult exists in such a way that it is beneficial financially for other organizations.

So in essence, it turns into this like Pyramid's game. And I can't say that, you know, because I don't have the information, financials, but that were behind this thing, but it appears that some of these groups, like this one, may have been giving kickbacks to some of the ministers involved. Minister holds a conference, group starts to found itself and say, we're going to do this mission to Asia or whatever it is.

They come to the conference, people start donating. Well, because the ministry brought them in, they give a little bit of kickback. And so it turns into this financial pyramid. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. We had this big house in Scottsdale, needed to be sold, and in its current state, you couldn't even let people in because you could not literally walk through the house. There was so much stuff in it, you could not

walk through and see the whole house. So what happened is my wife and I decided to snowbird in Arizona for the winners of 2013 and 2014. So we spent seven months, each time, down in Scottsdale, getting rid of the stuff, cleaning it up, remodeling the whole thing. It's an early February 2015.

This lady contacts me. She's driving around different places and she wants to visit. And she wants to come by and spend a couple of days down there helping me get this house ready for sale because that's what she does. And so she comes down in visits. And at the end of the first workday together, then we start to unravel. And it was then that she was free to start telling me the full story of what happened with her and her husband at gospel for Asia and serving the ministries. So here's her story. At Sim...

She had become the verbal punching bag of the leader very quickly. And so she just quit. She just decided to have nothing at all to do with this thing. But in spite of that, her husband continued working there.

And that was something that she did not share in her quarterly emails. And then at gospel for Asia, she described the fundamental building of the compound, which they never raised any money explicitly for.

So they built a compound north of where their offices were, out in the boonies. And then she briefly talked about a cult she had joined once as a youth upon arriving there full time.

They quickly realized that gospel for Asia was also a little cult upon. And that was the reason why they built the compound there. They had their own little church building they could build this little prayer room.

And then they could have more control over people because before they lived off campus. But now they could control all these different aspects of the lives. So they stayed there two years to honor their promise.

And they were involved in as little as they could possibly be without getting into trouble with K.P. Johan and who was their head dictator there. And then she told me about things that were going on, things like, for instance, if K.P. Johan and did not like something you were doing, then he would simply be extra slow in getting your support to you because in order for the support to be tax deductible, you would have to give it to gospel for Asia, earmarked for support for this person.

So if he didn't like you, he would just be extra slow in getting that support to you. And with holding the funds, men, literally you're withholding the food and supplies. Yeah. How are you going to go outside and buy food at the grocery store?

You do that from the support that you raised, which they would withhold if K.P. didn't like something that you were saying or doing. And of course, doing that, he could force you to leave as well because you got to eat.

So, and she told me about a group of GFA diaspora, people who had worked there before, who had formed, and they had wrote two letters to the GFA board with their concerns, and they, the two of them had signed the last one. And here are the specific signs of fraud that she told me. So, beyond the fact that he was starting to call himself a bishop and was starting to act in ways like before he would pretend to be humble, but all that went out the window once the compound was finished and everybody was in

there. And they were chauffeuring him around, and there's some other stories that I learned about that are just outrageous about things that were going on there. But the specific sign of fraud that came to me was that they had pictures of their native missionaries, and they were all stock photos there in Texas. Wow. And they were separate from the handwritten letters. So, the handwritten letters would come in from overseas, and then the manager would go over to the stock photo file, pick out a photo like the one that I had received in my initial letter, put it with the letter,

and then tell the non-employee to mail this out to the new donor, just as I had been when I started that process. And the same exact photos were being sent out to different donors with different letters with different names. And to me, that was just the clearest sign of fraud. I mean, if this were real, the pictures would come in stapled to letters from the field. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. So, this and other things mentioned that would later end up in Professor Warren Throck Martin's very first blog post got me motivated to find a way to blow whistle on us. Okay. So, we have Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel. We've got the the cult leader that's got the compound.

You mentioned Mark Driscoll. How does he fit into this picture? One day I was sitting and I had the cynical thought in my head. Why don't I just Google repent and pastor? For that is something that almost never...

happens. And that occurred to me. So, uh, what the heck? Why don't I just see that and come up, see what comes up? I did, and I found a website of ex Mars Hill Seattle leaders who are apologizing for their abusing of their flock under Mark Griscoll. And at that time I had no knowledge of this. I had heard about two Mars Hills, uh, big churches in the US, but I didn't know that there was scandal going on at one of them. So the next thing I did is I googled because now I was interested, what's going on at Mars Hill that would have like seven or eight

different pastors and leaders all coming on and being repenting and apologizing for people for the abuse that they did to them. So I googled Mars Hill controversy and guess what came up? Warren, Professor Warren Throck Martin's blog came up along with some others, but Warren was the one people inside the church, were leaking internal documents too. And so I was following his blog all the way from the summer of 2014 up until this period of time got it. So one church scandal caused you to research and connect to people who had other research and that connected you to figure

out that this might be a scam that I'm in. So what happened next? I went on his blog and it was likely one of the Mars Hills posts. And I introduced the first little hint there that something was going on at Gospel for Asia and would he be interested in looking into it? And I dropped a few of those hints over a number of posts and he expressed a great deal of interest because that thing was winding down at that period of time. More or less I think. And then eventually I emailed Warren directly about my concerns for Gospel for Asia. And the diaspora group was putting together a

website and that website was not open to the public. They were putting stuff on there and and getting it ready because they were ready to do the master 18 thing. The final thing was to go public and they weren't ready yet. He contacted them and then started interacting with them before they were ready to go public. And so they decided that he would be they would make his their website go live and then he would be the one to publicize it so that more people would know about it.

And in April 2015, the very first post came out. And that very first post was about the GFA, the SPOR, and the two letters. And I believe there are five specific areas that they brought up that were concerns.

So all of this information is online now, or? If you will go to Warren Throck Mountain's website, you will find 52 pages, a blog post that followed after that. 52 pages. So all of this information comes out.

It's now being made known to the public. And suddenly anybody who's involved with this, they suddenly really wait a minute. This is a scam. I can picture all kinds of people with pitchforks ready to come after this guy.

So people started sending him internal stuff from all over the US, Canada, Australia, and even India. And major events that proceeded that you will find there, and you can find other places on the web, is that the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, which GFA was a founding member.

They did a review and found that GFA only passed three out of their seven criteria. So they pulled their fake stamp of approval off of them. Then an insider leaked the full report, which ended up being published on Warren's blog in its absolute entirety.

So you can read the full report yourself if you go on his blog. Indians sent Warren pictures of priests, because one of the things that happened was K.P. Johan and didn't just send out missionaries.

He started his own cult church, his own denomination, and declared himself as high bishop. And there were pictures of the priests underneath him kissing his ring like he was the pope. And this was being his primary source of funds was from Protestants who would not look at that well.

And then that became Warren's favorite picture. Before then, he would use stock pictures from GFA stuff. After that, every time there was a post, here was this picture of this priest kissing K.P. Johan and his ring while he's sitting there in his...

Bishop gown and dress in this throne, I would call. Imagine the bottom fell out at that point. Everybody is halting their money and this turns into a big scandal. So, all right, so my head is going in a million different directions with all of this.

You've mentioned so many names and this massive scandal that seems to be connected to so many people. Francis Chan, how does Francis Chan fit into this? Francis Chan was one of the board members at this time.

Wow. Still is, I think, to the current day as far as I know. Francis Chan claimed KP S's mentor. So, get this. He's not just a friend or something. He was his mentor. And then there was also the head pastor of the big Albuquerque Calvary Chapel.

He was on the board. Francis Chan stayed through him throughout everything that I'm going to tell you. Even right up to the day. But what happened after the ECFA report came out was that the Albuquerque Calvary Chapel pastor just left the board, never said a word again.

Never discussed it. No explanation of what happened, no apology. Just, he now pretends like that, something that never happened. And as a former accountant, which I also am, during this period of time, I started adding up the numbers because they were being reported.

How much money was being raised in the US? How much in Canada? How much in Australia? How much in Europe? And I started adding all these numbers up. And it became really obvious very quickly that the toll-take KP Yohan and has for this scam is way over $1 billion US.

Wow. No doubt. And so I consider him our modern day, the biggest scam artist that nobody pays attention to or notices because he's overseas. And we can't see, we aren't in India, we didn't see what he actually did.

That's hard to wrap your head around. $1 billion is a heck of a lot of money. So to remind the listeners, this started out with this little, little tiny thing, a few pamphlets and it might be a cult, it might not, and then grew into a billion dollar scam.

That's, it's really hard to wrap your head around. Their income, their total income went from almost nothing in those early years. And then started adding up to some very large sums. 2013 was almost $100 million take just in the US.

And also KP became a prosperity preacher on Indian radio. So in the US we have our prosperity teachers and over this period of time KP Johanen became a famous radio preacher in India and he was also raising money from Indians that way.

The same way that a Ken Copeland raises money today here in the US. I'm still just shaking my head man, I have no billion dollars. That's a lot of money. How do you how do you even explain how do you account for that where where does all the money go?

Things that were never fundraised for and eventually a lawsuit came out and in lawsuit they claimed that only 13% of what was raised went to the field when they were claiming that 100%. You give us this and 100% of this will go to the field to help with the spread of the gospel in India.

Yeah, but I mean what did they use the money for? So the first thing is that they bought the acres in the rural Texas to build their cult compound so they could have greater control over their workers.

And they brought money back in from the field $20 million to buy the land, put it in the roads, build all the buildings, the offices, the chapel, the houses for the cult members who lived there, all that.

And they never raised a dime, they never mentioned anything about raising money for that. Yeah, but I mean even that, we're talking a billion dollars, that doesn't account for the billion. Where did the money go?

They also bought Chevrolet Valley Estate which is a rubber plantation in India and that was big news in India news websites because they bought it from an organization that had leased it from the government and according to the government they didn't own it so they couldn't sell it.

So the scammer has got scammed by buying an estate from a company that didn't actually own it. I remember reading something similar that happened in Dauy's life, it's in my book I wrote about Dauy but he got scammed as well so he's scamming the people, the scammer scammed the scammers.

That has been in the Indian court system and it still is today. So there's a continuing lawsuit, the government says you don't own it, it is our land. And they're saying no, we bought it, we own it.

And the lawsuit is just keeping... Uncontinuing because KP Yonin has big enough wallets to keep bribing the courts and keeping this thing going. And so it's still in the court system. So you have all of these Christian people who are attending church.

They're joining these conferences and the conferences. They're saying, hey, give this organization the money because they're spreading the gospel into the other nations. And all the while, they think they're supporting missionaries like you.

They think they're supporting missionaries and none of the money is actually getting to the missionaries. Warren found millions sitting in an Asian bank account that was never transferred into the field. And there were interviews going back and forth with the gospel for Asia, KP Yonin and the other people.

Why hasn't this money ever been transferred over into the field? So I can imagine this group does not want this money to be stopped. Have they tried to stop the whistleblowers? They sued Google, Facebook and some others and you can find this on Indian websites.

They sued them because they were trying to silence people who were speaking out against their cult. And so this is not just something that happens in the U.S. also in India. This kind of thing happens.

They try to get rid of free speech by suing the people who have the free speech on there. And this is still going, right? This is still happening today. And that's just something that's amazing.

And I don't know why anybody in the West is still donating to them. But KP is still raising those funds and they're still going somewhere to something. So you're talking India and this thing, you know, it's in the United States, too.

And now the United States, there's a lot of people that's been made aware. Have there been any lawsuits filed in the United States? A doctor here in the U.S. with deep pockets decided to file a RICO lawsuit against GFA, which was eventually settled in 2019 for a $37 million rebate to donors.

And they've tried to pressure or bully you online, right? Didn't you write some sort of a blog post that they got involved with? I made the comment. And then that was it. And then a couple hours later on the blog, something very interesting happened.

John Varghese, who had never been there before, came on the blog and responded to that post. John Varghese said, I am their lawyer. Daniel Varghese is my brother. that you found is not the same Daniel Vargis and then he went on the blog and did what of course lawyers do. They defended him and this continued on a conversation for some time John Vargis would be the one who would keep coming on to Warren's blog and running interference you might say.

And then a couple of days later through the GFA diaspora they I learned that yeah Daniel Vargis was the one that KP Johan had given to watch Warren's blog and I had no idea of that. And then in some weeks later Wikipedia page I had I had gone on to the gospel for Asia Wikipedia page and I had added a controversy section and then I followed their rules and outlines and I put in quotes from Christian news sources stuff bigger than Warren about the controversy that was going on I had created that someone named Daniel Vargis went on there and they vandalized their site by deleting

this entire section and he uses his own name next to the IP address to it and then if that is and enough a couple years ago I was looking through an Indian website and on the website they referred to a Daniel Vargis as a part of this whole IT tax scam thing investigations going on and they mentioned that he was one of the high ranking officials in the cult church denomination that he had started. So all of this is going on this organization that was founded by KP Johanem and he's dead now right what happened to KP Johanem. KP was walking on a road just outside of the

Texas cult complex that he had built here in the US when someone ran him down in a car in an accident so a billionaire fraudster dies a violent death. Now I doubt if you go into India and you talk to the typical Indian and you ask him do you think this was an accident? I doubt you would find many Indians who would tell you yeah it was an accident but that's how it was reported.

So KP is dead in a hospital from a heart attack that he had had why they were trying to patch him up on this accident. Where can people go online to find more information about all of this?

Well, I just sent you a bunch of links to all of those information, but WarrenThrockMorton.com is his site with the 52 pages? Well, this has been a crazy story to say the least.

I had no, you know, when you mentioned the names that were involved and you're talking Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith and Francis Chan, Mark Driscoll, I had no idea where this would be headed. And honestly, I did not expect it to grow into as big of a story as what you actually have told me. So this has been quite a wild ride for me and I can only imagine what it's like for the listeners. Very, very few people even know about it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had no idea.

I had heard some of the names that you mentioned, obviously Chuck Smith and Francis Chan, Mark Driscoll, that, but I had not heard of KP Johan and I had not heard of the scam and I just did a little bit of searching, you know, avoiding the legalese. I did look for myself to see was there some legitimacy to this? And apparently there is and you've sent me a bundle of information, which I'll try to share some of that in the description of the video so other people can go look, but I had no idea that this existed, although when you think of these big conventions

that these churches have, I've been to IT conventions and you go into the convention center, you see all of these different booths and you're walking past some of the big names and you know, it's really reputable stuff. But then you get into the back corners and there's some really shady characters in the back of these things, right? And that's in the business world and that's in a place where it's somewhat screened and professional. But now I'm trying to picture this in the Christian world. What is a Christian convention? What does it even look like? I've never been to one,

but I'm trying to picture it happening and I'm trying to picture a so coward chapel Chuck Smith, any of these people, they could get blindsided by the same scams that you could. So they don't know maybe that they're maybe they're unaware. Maybe it's a pyramid scheme and they are involved. I don't know, but give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're caught unaware and some shady characters coming in and he's setting up a scam in the convention. Well, when you think of that and just take a step back from all of it, how does any of it even make sense in the world of Christianity?

In the IT world, yes, it kind of makes sense. You do the networking, you collaborate, but Christianity, man, it's not supposed to be business and they're trying to structure and run this thing like a business and when you do that, you bring all the same problems that you have with a business.

So it's it's quite fascinating and I'm sure there's a lot more that you could tell that We've only got an hour, so there's a lot bigger story here, I think, than you're probably able to tell in an hour.

But thank you so much for doing this. Glad to be here. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want to share your story, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-Branum.org.

For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

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