Bruce Kinsey Prophecy: Manipulation in the Name of God

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, minister and friend, Chenle Ross, pastor and the voice of the understanding, scripture and truth by Chenle de Ross, YouTube channel. Chenle, this is going to be an interesting episode, the subject you picked today. I don't know that we have talked about this, but my grandfather was the target of a prophecy by William Branham, and these things were given out random. It's like if you understand the psyche of a mentally unstable person, you can kind

of understand how this happens, but he would just randomly give out these free gifts to people, and he told my grandfather that you and your children and your grandchildren will be saved, which is a free ticket to salvation if you understand what that really means.

And it wasn't just my grandfather that got the get out of jail free card, or monopoly. There were other families from coast to coast that had this weird prophecy from William Branham that they had instant salvation, whether they even believed in Jesus Christ or not. I therefore, because I'm included in the grandchildren, I am part of that prophecy, apparently. So I've got a free ticket to heaven. And what's interesting about that, you know, in my case, me speaking out against the cult that I left, well, what does that mean to the cult? If I have this prophecy,

and I'm filled with salvation according to the cult leader, and I'm also speaking against the cult leader, you end up with this weird conundrum that people don't know what to do with. And therefore, because of the cult mindset, a brain cannot reconcile it. And so what happens is, in many cases, it's just forgotten. Nobody remembers it. Nobody knows that John is saved by the prophet, or they will spin it into something else. Maybe John in the very last moments of his death is going to turn to the prophet William Branham and suddenly be saved. Well, it isn't just William

Branham that does this. If you look at the other cult leaders, they throw out all kinds of things to say. And you can tell it's clearly not from God, especially when the target is somebody who doesn't stay in the cult. Which brings us to our episode today. That's a great introduction, John.

And what people don't know is you haven't heard what we're going to hear today, but you've been in such a similar cult that you have a good feel of your way around the cult, and no one knows the little brief conversation we had before we went live, but I mean you nailed it on the head.

So what I want to do to start with, this is just the tease as they say, this is the advertisement. We have something, I have something that I have had for 50 years, it actually goes back to 1973, so more than 50 years ago, and it's not just something that I have in my private possession, it's something that's publicly available for everyone, and it does concern a prophecy from Hobart Freeman to and about his son-in-law Bruce Kinsey, about whom we have spoken earlier.

So I have other things to say leading into and up to this, but I would recommend people, the ex-faith assembly followers, you're going to want to hear this, you're going to want to hear this.

So it's only been a couple of weeks ago, two weekends ago, we were at our meet and greet and up in Indiana where I was able to meet a lot of these ex-faith assembly people, John.

And I guess you and I for the last several months, what we've been mostly dealing with concerning Hobart and faith assembly are doctrines of his and practices of his that are just representative of everything and the latter reign and word of faith movement in general.

So they weren't specific to Hobart, I've tried to show how all of this was borrowed from other people. So even if you had never heard of Hobart Freeman and were not a part of the faith assembly in northern Indiana outreach and it's satellite groups, people could still find some interest in what we were saying because of similar backgrounds.

What I want to do beginning today is get a little bit awful that, although I still think that it will hold everyone's interest because as your introduction just showed, even when it's something that is group specific to certain people and certain ministers within that group, the pattern is still already there, the pattern has been seen in earlier ministries.

So I want to do what people are really wanting me to do and that is to get on up to the actual death of Hobart Freeman because there are a lot of things that are fascinating around that.

So what we've got to do is kind of go back in our mind and memory, you and I talked about this earlier. I mean, months earlier, the fall of 1984. The fall of 1984, Dr. Freeman's gonna die in December of that year.

You see Faith Assembly almost as a prison camp. The walls are closing in, the clouds are dark and ominous, and it wasn't anything anybody else did. Dr. Freeman and Faith Assembly brought all this on themselves.

But if you listen to messages that are being taught in the fall of 1984, you can feel the walls closing in on the people. It's probably something similar to the implosion of any cult, even like Jonestown.

I'm sure there were signs of paranoia and panic. The end of Jonestown. I'm sure that's true in any kind of cult when you have this encroachment from the outside. So, Galner the day is 10 years earlier in the mid 1970s when it was a pretty happy and joyful place to be a part of.

But there are a series of events that are taking place over this last year of Dr. Freeman's life and ministry that are causing the dark clouds of the fall of 1984. And we've talked about these before, but I'm just gonna briefly reiterate them because it's been a while.

The first thing that happened was a civil lawsuit that was actually filed in the previous year in 1983. And this was done by a couple in Ohio where the woman in this marriage had been a part of Steve Hill's group in Rockford, Illinois.

Steve Hill had a pretty big satellite group up in outside the Chicago area in Rockford that he would travel to. And this woman was a part of that. And so being a part of that had caused all kinds of personal, emotional, psychological, marital problems.

So once she was out, they hired an attorney in Michigan and filed a civil lawsuit against Hobart Freeman naming him and some of the other ministers such as Steve Hill as Defendantson. And what they were real, they knew that Hobart Freeman was the backbone to everything happening there in Northern Indiana.

And they wanted to get to him. And so what the civil lawsuit was all about was finding out what his assets were. And you know, we're talking about the early 1980s. That's probably common today, but way back then nobody was filing civil lawsuits against ministers because of marital or psychological damage they had caused in the family or in the home.

something I would think would be really difficult to prove that you could actually trace whatever's happening in the mind or of that woman or the marriage of that couple back to teaching by Steve Hill that came from Hobart Freeman. Probably be difficult to ever prove in court, but they were feeling the pressure of this civil lawsuit. A second thing that happened that we've also talked about is that the Indiana State legislature jumped into action because of the deaths of people at Faith Assembly and what they did is they came in and rewrote the laws in the summer spring

and summer of 1984 and they took away this religious exemption clause in Indiana State law which had said that prayer could be offered in lieu of medical treatment. And so consequently old people had died, young people had died and especially there had been a very high spike in infant mortality. And what was happening with the faith assembly people is that they were saying we were trusting God and there's a separation in church and state we have our religious beliefs and you can't infringe on those and so far they were successful with that kind of defense but no longer by the summer of 1984 the Indiana State legislature had changed that

and now these families were in the position of possibly being charged with child neglect. If the child had a medical condition serious enough that warranted medical attention and the parent refused to take them into the doctor now the laws were written in such a way they could be charged with neglect. And then if other things happened like the child died then you could be charged with reckless homicide. And that is going to be one of the things that brings Hobart down when Pamela meaning a 15 year old girl died of of kidney issues she was 15 years old then Hobart actually was

and died by grand jury charge fingerprinted arrested book taken to jail and everything over that and that was all because of these Indiana state laws. A third thing that came into play was just how rapidly the church was growing. In the 1970s from year to year say from 74 to 75 in the glory barn it might have grown by 100 people and gone from 250 to 350 people and then by the next year another jump by 100 people to 450 and then to 550. By the time we've gotten to the early 1980s the church is really growing numerically.

He has attracted this widespread following and so now they are up to several thousand people strong at the new building in Wilmot and Freeman himself was so isolated and he had become so hardened in his anti doctors anti medical science teaching. He was experiencing some paranoia.

He was experiencing this persecution complex. He put that on the church and they definitely experienced that. So everything was shut down to the media, to interviews, to even to outside people coming in. People in the parking lot were on the watch for someone who did not look like they belonged there and this is part of what I'm saying. It's just this dark environment. It faith assembly in 1984 and when you go back and hear the messages you can cut the atmosphere with a knife. You feel it so heavily in there and and the people feel it but they're feeling this

this pressure because Hobart has flipped everything on his head and said the reason that we're having all these problems is because we have been so faithful to God in Scripture. No one else has been as faithful as us and that's why we're experiencing this persecution. So he had convinced them in their mind that it was real persecution and that they had earned it in a sense by their faithfulness to God in Scripture. So on one hand it made people excited that we are we're in that we're in the last days. Hobart was teaching this series in Exodus. He only got about nine messages done

but he was basically saying you faith assembly people are like the children of Israel and Egypt and God is getting ready to set you free from the world. I mean that has all the overtones of a death cult of Jonestown. God is getting ready to set you free. No Kool-Aid was ever distributed there but it was still that that feeling of us against the world. We're right and God is going to vindicate us. That same time period Dr. Freeman was teaching this deeper deliverance and discernment series which I've always called psycho babble because it was dealing with multiple personalities

and he was not qualified to teach on any kind of psychiatry or psychology like that and more than the psychiatry of it all was the medical science part of deeper deliverance and discernment. And we're going to talk about Freeman's view in the future maybe after we get through with his life and death. We'll talk about his Views and practices of deliverance. They were highly unusual. They were not biblical at all and some of the people at the meeting Greed two weekends ago said, Hey, are you ever going to talk about Hobart and his view on deliverance and the answers? Yes, we will but in this deeper

Deliverance and discernment what the people were being told to do was to go back to their childhood by asking their parents what kind of medical treatment and drugs in particular was I subjected to whenever I was a child. And I think as an outsider, we could look at that and see that Things were not happening. People were not being healed. People were not being delivered. People were not being set free.

Things were not going the way that Hobart had promised that they would. If you'll find a promise, claim it, believe it, confess it, act on it, endure it. You'll have your answer. People people weren't being healed. Things weren't happening. And so there's this thing that begins to go in a person's mind, well, what else am I missing?

What do I need to do to get this answer? I still can't see and pass my driver's test. I still need glasses, but I've claimed my healing and I don't have it yet. So he sent them down this rabbit hole of literally asking their parents, some of whom would not have been faith assembly supporters or members at all.

What kind of medications was I on when I was a child? Then they were had to name these medications, go through deliverance from these medications in order to receive answers to their promises. I would just say parenthetically to all the people that did that. Did you get any answers after you went through that? Of course not.

It's just another illusion, another false hope. So you have this happening. Another thing happening and I'll take a break here in a minute, John. I just wanted to get through the what I think is contributing to this terrible environment at faith assembly in 1984 is that the deaths had spiked.

Not only at faith assembly, definitely there in northern Indiana, but in all the satellite groups as well.

You have the local papers who the previous year had done some articles on, you know, there's 56 deaths. Now they're 94 deaths because the Fort Wayne paper and the Warsaw Indiana paper had picked these up.

Then so had the Chicago newspaper and so had the New York Times. You can find articles from this period in American history in Indiana late 1984 of articles in the New York Times. about the deaths happening there.

And if I'm not mistaken, even Ted Coppel on Nightline did either an episode or mentioned it in some as some fragment of a show. You know, Ted Coppel was a guy that had the big, thick hair piled on top of his head and just, what a great news guy, what a great speaker.

But I'm pretty sure Ted Coppel did something. So there are just a lot of people dying everywhere. And not only at Faith Assembly, they're dying in some of the satellite groups. So if you read the newspaper articles that I have over here on in my files and we've looked at some of those, the EV Swanson, the author Graham, those were people in and around Northern Indiana.

You'll see a lot of people dying there, but not only there, you'll find them dying in satellite groups elsewhere. So Tom Hamilton, who was a very well-known follower of Hobart Freeman, but who was never a part of Faith Assembly, had his own church for years and years.

The remnants of it still exist here in Kentucky in Shelbyville, Kentucky. And he had a couple in his church. They also made the Indiana papers, even though they were not at Faith Assembly, they were down in Tom Hamilton's church.

And their name was Terry and Rhonda Murphy. And in March of 1981, they had a baby dying childbirth. In March of 82, they had a baby dying childbirth. And they were charged with reckless homicide in Kentucky, in Shelby County, Shelbyville, Kentucky.

I've talked to some people who were a part of Tom Hamilton's church, and they said that Rhonda and Terry lost at least a mother one, a third one, if not a fourth one. So there were two in the paper.

They think for certain that it three died and it's possible that four died. The only reason that I happen to mention them, Terry and Rhonda Murphy in particular is because of this. Terry's brother-in-law worked for me.

Terry's brother-in-law worked for me for a number of years. He had actually the man that worked for me, who was married to Terry's sister, had actually been a part of the big actin church outside Indianapolis that Jeff Barnett was passed for several years.

So this family of the people that worked for me had gotten kicked out of Jeff Barnett's church because they disagreed with some things, had migrated down to Kentucky and had joined Tom Hamilton's church.

So there are now some people from Indiana down there. So this young man worked for me for a number of years. So I also knew the Murphy's through him and actually whenever the Murphy's Terry- and Ron to build a new house, our company, my company did all the cabinets in their new house.

And it's not been that many years ago, I can't even tell you, I don't know if it's been 10 years ago that Terry Murphy, the father himself, died a terrible death of cancer. But the Murphy people are still around here.

So I'm simply saying that, if you're the pastor of faith assembly and you have all of these people dying, you're feeling the pressure of it. And then one final thing that I'll say is that because of the deaths, parents of these children and because of the laws passed are now being charged and tried and convicted and sentenced to prison.

And we talked about this in the past, Gary and Margaret Hall and David and Kathleen Bergman were the two early examples of what law enforcement and the courts in Indiana were wanting to do.

And that is making example of a couple of people, a couple of families there at Faith Assembly so they could hopefully bring everything to arrest, stop all of that from happening. And so this is a background, John, to a little small clip I want you to play Hobart did a series called The Judgments of Jude.

This is this little small epistle of Jude at the end of the New Testament. And as you can hear in the title to the whole series The Judgments of Jude, it's Hobart as his best threatening people that they better not fall away from the faith, threatening judgment of God upon them.

And in one of the messages which was entitled The Day of the Lord. You fall away, we'll say it again from Faith Assembly, you're falling away from the faith. You can call it whatever you want.

If the five-year-old stands up there and reads the word a promise of God and some skeptics sits out there 25 or 35 years old and says I don't believe it, he's falling away from the word of that five-year-old because it came right out of the word of God.

So when you fall away from the word of Faith Assembly, you fall away from the faith because that's all we teach his faith and it's right out of the word of God. You find something, you find something.

Find something that isn't in line with the word of God. You go ahead and find it. No, I don't care what that sounds like. And so what we hear in that is Hobart said, if you fall away from Faith Assembly, you fall away from the Christian faith.

That terrified people. I mean, this had been their church. They've been going to this church for years and he equates the kingdom of God with the four walls of Faith Assembly. And this wasn't the only time he said it.

This was just a time toward the end of his ministry that he said it in the Colossian series. He said it over and over but this is a good example of him saying if you fall away from faith assembly, you can't be saved.

You have fallen away from God, Jesus is not your Savior and Lord anymore. You are not in the Christian faith. If you leave our church, fall away from it means you become critical of it like I did.

You become critical and you lead. If you do that, you're a lost person. You can't be saved and you're going to hell. It's almost like there's this cookie cutter stamp of what it looks like whenever you make a cult and whenever a cult leader becomes authoritarian and when outside pressure comes in because they all act, behave, have prophecy.

It's all the same thing over and over and over whether you're talking about Hobart Freeman, Jim Jones, Brannum, any of these guys. There was a point in time in which during the early years of Laterane, whenever everybody was excited and welcome and happy, and I don't care if you're Catholic, come join us.

I don't care if your Baptist come join us. That's how the mentality was. And then after people started realizing that there's no doctrinal grounding in this movement, people started telling them we don't want parts with this Laterane, so we're going to disconnect.

It's not that we don't love you, but we don't want this unscriptural thing. So they started disconnecting and the money started not coming in as much. Well that's the point in time in which you can watch things starting to tighten and squeeze.

Then as things got worse and the controversy started brewing, you could see very clearly the change in the ministries as they felt what pressure was coming from the outside. Those who were authoritarian and wanted to have control, they can't deal with outside pressure that they can't control.

So the narcissistic personality disorder kicks in and the only way that they have to satisfy that hunger for control is to control the people that they can control. They can't control the outside situations, but here's a group of people.

I'm going to just come down really, really hard on those people. That's generally what happens over time. You played that clip. I had not heard the one of the prophecy, which we'll get into that a bit more, but as you've been scanning through it, it just reeks of the authoritarian control as you look through not just what he's saying about Bruce, but the entire sermon as you get into it, it's all about elitism, control.

What I was looking for as I was scanning through that sermon was something of substance as it relates to the gospel or the Bible. It's not there. It's just totally missing, but the people have been under that pressure and that control so much that they're not realizing that this isn't this actually.

isn't a sermon. They're calling it a sermon and he's getting up and his Sunday clothes and preaching. But what this is is a retribution for all of the outside pressure that he can't stop.

It's coming down. The focal point is the people and he's coming down very hard on the people. That's exactly right, John. And I apologize for talking so long there in the introduction, but I just wanted people to be able to feel what you just said in a couple of sentences and it took me 20 minutes to say that the walls are closing in, the sky is falling down.

And yeah, he's feeling pressure and you're so right that this is not the gospel. I'm reminded, as I listened to Hobart's messages even this day to find the appropriate clip, I would like everyone else to hear.

So yes, unfortunately, I'm still listening to him today. Other people aren't and when they hear his voice, they go, oh, wow, that is creepy and it brings back, they just have a physical psychological reaction sometimes to hearing his voice.

I don't because I hear his voice every week as I'm listening to different old messages. But as I do hear them every week, one thing that just stands out and the more you listen, the more you hear, I'm reminded of what Paul said in Acts 20 to the Ephesian elders, Paul had spent what,

three years in Ephesus, he's not gonna go back there again. So he's sailing on his way to Jerusalem, he calls him over to Miletus, all the elders of the church in Ephesus and he's just giving them a charge to take care of the flock that God has entrusted to them.

And in that message from Paul to the Ephesian ministers and elders, he said that of your own selves will men arise to draw away disciples after themselves. And you know, we know that verse is there and we hear that, but when you listen to Hobart, he is constantly talking about himself.

I don't care if it's a 1970 or 1980 or 1984 message he is constantly talking about himself. And we've covered this before John, I'm not opposed, I don't think anyone's opposed to your local pastor or a Christian minister telling a story about himself.

We need to know something about him. But with Hobart, it was something of another league. He just constantly is saying, I and me and mine and I did this and you know, this verse, let me tell you a story from my life and you can better understand this verse and everything is in the context of himself.

I mean, it's really creepy. I teach regularly and I will occasionally tell a story about myself, but I am certain beyond a shout of a doubt that if you go listen to all of my men.

as it is, you will not hear this constant reference, but you do in Hobart. And wow, when you read that, you know, and I don't, I don't go down the path of saying, because people will ask me, they ask me all the time, do you think Hobart deliberately was trying to deceive people?

I say, you know, I can't read somebody else's mind. All I know is the cold reality of whether it was done intentionally or not, here's the devastation that followed. Those are the cold hard facts that no one can dispute.

We could dispute intent. Did he start off right, end up wrong? Was he always wrong? Was he mostly right at the beginning and partly wrong and mostly wrong and partly right at the end?

You know, I don't have the ability to judge anyone's intent. All I know are the cold hard facts is here's where we ended up. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

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So as I'm seeing these things happen, then I write my own letters. I try to talk to Hobart on the phone and June won't let me get through to him anymore. So I write some letters saying, what's going on at Faith Assembly?

You've got all these people dying. So I become bait from the pulpit. Here's another guy who's gone out biting the hand that fed him. That was the favorite statement of his. Criticizing what he once praised.

That was another favorite statement because he knew me that as a teenager, I had followed everything that he said. But I just couldn't wrap my head around hundreds of people dying and no one in the ministry there pushing the Paul's button and saying, wait a minute, I know we believe all these promises.

We think they're in God's word and this, that, and the other. But let's push the Paul's button. We are losing members. We've lost a 20th of our congregation to unnecessary death. Yes. People have died in other churches, but not to this degree, not in this proportion.

So we need to push the Paul's butt and find out what's going on. I raise an objection and coming now to where I want to come in the second part of this podcast, his son-in-law, Bruce Kinsey, who was second in command, married to his middle daughter, Kathy.

Kathy, that called me last week, and we talked about that in the last podcast. She's in her late 70s, I would guess, by now, but Bruce Kinsey's widow, Hobart's middle daughter, Kathy Freeman Kinsey, called me last week.

This is Bruce Kinsey's second in command at Faith Assembly, a dynamic personality and speaker who was the one who was in charge of filling the pulpit himself or assigning the pulpit to another minister whenever Hobart was gone.

Our Hobart was way on vacation or it was not Hobart's time to speak. Hobart normally spoke on Sunday evening and Wednesday evening by the end of his ministry. So the Sunday morning pulpit at Faith Assembly was a coveted prize, and Bruce was the one who was in charge of assigning who would get to speak at Faith Assembly on Sunday morning. I mean, if you got to do that, you're one of those so-called word ministers.

That was a big deal to get to address the entire congregation. So this is the power that Bruce Kinsey had. Bruce had married Kathy as an unsaved man in 1970, and through the witness of Kathy and the prayers of other people, Bruce was converted to Christianity in 1973, and by the next summer, he was converted in the spring of 1973 by the summer of 1974.

He was given the pulpit. He was a brand new one-year-old Christian. One-year-old Christian, go back our audience here, John, in your life and my life, to when you had been a Christian for one year. How much did you really know not very much compared to what you know now? He was given the pulpit at the glory barn for the big Friday night meeting. There were hundreds, several hundred people that showed up. That's a Friday night meeting at the glory barn, and Bruce had that pulpit. And by the next year in 1975, he started the satellite

group up at Purdue University called the Lighthouse, and that was kind of between the Friday night meeting and the West Lafayette Purdue meeting. That was kind of Bruce's, you know, main two gigs. A lot of followers. Bruce was very well-light. Bruce was very well-respected, but he was a freemanite, as was I, back in the 70s. He believed everything Dr. Freeman said, but He calls he had been a captain in the Marine Corps, had served a tour of duty in Vietnam.

You know, he was a man's man. He had a commanding presence. He was spending his time studying the Bible after he got saved in 1973 and listening to his father-in-law's tapes. So he was rapidly learning, although you still, you can only learn so much in a 12-month period.

But I think because of how Bruce was converted, because of who he was married to, because of the fact that he had served in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, he had all of these things in his favor, his personality that caused him to rise to the cream of the crop and be given these important positions. He also was the one that was handling the tape duplication in ministry of Dr. Freeman. He was handling that himself and then he hired John Abel to do that, and John Abel did that for several years by himself, and as the ministry grew, then he got some

other people to come in there and help him do that. So Bruce wrote this little book, came really popular book entitled, God Will Save Your Love Ones. And on the back of the book, there are a couple of pictures, one of Bruce and Kathy, which you can show the people, John, and another of the entire Freeman family with Dr. Freeman and June sitting on a little bench behind their house on shoe lake and the three married daughters and their husbands and then the grandchildren. So Bruce is a very important figure, and as I said a few moments ago,

I was one of the people, I'm sure there were other people, and I happened to be one of the people who was a nobody who was beginning to complain to Dr. Freeman about the path the church was taking.

So my complaints did not register, and I understand that I wasn't anybody of any significance. Bruce was, Bruce was second in command, and Bruce began to object to what was going on. So much so that he ended up leaving Faith Assembly. Here's the point that I don't think people realize. Everyone knew that Bruce left. A lot of people that followed Faith Assembly in Hobart had this book or knew about this book because Bruce gives his whole testimony in here. That's how you can come up with some of the dates and the progress of Christianity and his life and ministry

and so forth. What people don't realize is that... Just a few months after Bruce was saved. So we're talking about 1973. Hobart Freeman gave a prophecy to Bruce Kinsey. It was recorded. It is still available out there on YouTube. We're going to play it for everyone here in just a moment. Your people are welcome to go and find the entire message and they'll see that Hobart after that went on to prophesy to Steve Hill and Pam Hill. That's his oldest daughter and her husband, another tier one minister at Faith Assembly. And he has some other prophecies on there as well. So it's on a message. Let me

just give the background before we play this clip. And what's interesting, John, is on the the tape list that came out right before Hobart died and then right after he died. This was, this was under the miscellaneous series and it was M304. You say, where's the 301, 2 and 3? Well, I had those because on the earlier tape list, the first two were worship.

Praise and worship at Faith Assembly, Parks 1 and 2. That's 301 and 302. Then 303 and 304 were called ministering by the spirit, part 1 and part 2. Well, they got rid of one of those. It's no longer on the tape list. They got rid of the other worship tapes, but the one that was still on the tape list that came out. This is an old tape list. I'll even show it where you can see under the miscellaneous right here. You're missing the first three tapes. But the one that is still available and the one that is online isn't called part 1 or part 2. It's simply called ministering

by the spirit. And what Hobart meant by a tape and title ministering by the spirit for people who are unfamiliar with this is normally when you show up, normally when you show up at a Faith Assembly service, you're going to hear a message. Rarely. And sometimes at the end of the message, Hobart might have, you know, operating the so-called gifts of healings, word of knowledge.

He might have some prophecies. There might be a few gifts of tongues and interpretation. You know, for non-charismatic people, this is really strange. For charismatic people, you've heard of this type of thing before and it might happen a little bit at the end of the service. And that would be infrequent. Rarely, you would attend church and the entire service.

There is no preaching. There is no teaching. Hobart, as the minister is up front, He's been fasting and praying that day, he feels the anointing of the Holy Spirit on him. And so the entire service is what they call ministering in or by the Spirit.

So he will have messages in tongues and interpretation and prophecy and relate visions. And most of it is done by him. Occasionally he will allow other people to say something. This would be interesting to you, John.

If you go here this tape because one of the during this whole service and you will, this will be very interesting to you because of your background with William Brown. Seeing this ministering by the Spirit, a man comes up and whispers in Hobart's ear and you can kind of pick up this stuff.

You know, there's a microphone there. This isn't the best recording, but it's plenty clear enough to hear everything. This young man had just had a vision that he wanted to relate to Hobart. Hobart listed to it.

He wanted to clear it and he said, all right, I'm going to let him just share this real briefly. He had had a vision that while the whole body there at faith assembly in the glory barn was praying for interceding for the nation that he had witnessed California falling into the sea, but their prayers had prevented that from happening.

So rather than California falling to the sea, California did not fall into the sea. As far as I'm aware today, 52 years later, California is still there, right? Yeah, California hasn't fallen into the sea.

Hey, I'll give you a moment to say, I know what you want to say about William Branham, okay? You know, it's interesting how many different groups have a prophecy about California. Branham's one of them.

I know that's where you're headed with this, Branham's one of his big things he claimed in the last years as retribution to California for not accepting him as, you know, the Pentecostal leader, whatever it was.

He said that before his son, who is now who died of different complications, but mostly of old age, he said before my son, Billy Paul Branham, as an old man, California will sink. But you can go back long before Branham, you had, I just looked up one of the guy's names, Joe Brandt in 1937, apparently had a similar prophecy and the same thing.

I mean, you find these people that are having these prophecies left and right, but California is still there, like you said, it is still there. And in the end, I was thinking through this as I was talking to somebody trying to explain them the difference between a biblical prophecy.

and what you had in this movement. If I had a 50 gallon vat in my garage that I hooked a water hose to and I said, come over neighbors and I've got the thing filled with the finest wine and I hand somebody the handle the spout.

Well, I'm controlling what's on the other end of that. I'm controlling what comes out of that spout. And if they use the handle and they put it in their glass, they're gonna get wine because I'm controlling it.

God controls what comes out of the mouth of the prophets. If that person who's holding the nozzle of my water hose wants it from the neighbor's house because he wants water, well, I can't give him that because I'm controlling what comes out of that spout.

But the way that this movement has reinterpreted what prophecy is, they want to be the person who has the handle wants to control what comes out of the hose. They literally want to control God.

And that's exactly what a narcissist does. They want to control the prophecy, but again, and I'm going back to this Bruce Kinsey prophecy. The prophecy itself, if you understand the context in which this thing is given, the prophecy itself is a means to try to control and manipulate Bruce.

That's what it is. It's a narcissistic, it's not even a prophecy. It is a narcissistic means to control. Cult leaders and cult members will do this. I've had, whenever I left the brand of cult, I'm not going to give his name, but somebody who is high up well respected in the brand of cult wanted to scare my wife and said, before the year is over, John's wife will divorce him.

And so everybody, that was a prophecy. Now, do they remember this? No, they don't. It's forgotten the time because it didn't happen. My wife is still with me. I had prophecies about my death.

They wanted to scare me. I had all kinds of things that come out. And they were tools to manipulate me, the person who was leaving. Well, same thing with Bruce. This is a tool of manipulation.

And Hobart Freeman, he's wanting, as the person who's holding the water hose that's tied to the prophetic gift from God, he's wanting to control what comes out of it. And that's, it's exactly backwards from the biblical prophets.

They open their mouth to speak because God put the words there, not because they wanted to control what came out of God. Well, let's don't keep people in the dark any longer. Let's play this clip for them.

It's going to be kind of long. It's about four minutes. Praise the Lord. The Lord wants me to minister to Bruce, Bruce, and Kathy.

I never do select the family to prophesy to him. It's what has to be the Lord. Praise God. Praise God. So I was walking in a comfortable place. I was sitting in a comfortable place.

For you to sit on your guard, I had turned me when I was walking in a comfortable place. I had taken a hold by a glimpse and I had turned me into myself. Not for a guy's sake, but for my name's except for Lord.

For you to not, not mother or my father, not mother-in-law, not father-in-law, clearly, even at the midst of my darkness and sin for body. And I would hardly know tonight's gift of God that I honored their faith and I can stand in eternity and know that it's because of their faith of others stand before me as my servants.

And now having made mildly the basis upon which I would speak to thee, my son, my daughter, I wanted to know that an eternal, anointing, a love and power and grace and ministry that rests upon by shoulders as a mantle of a prophet and as a minister of the Word of God, I would send thee forth to the Gentiles, to the unbelieving as where is to the Jew who would hear from thee words that thou would speak directly by revelation, inspiration from heaven.

Do not hesitate to speak that which I would say through thee, but speak in great power and enlightening, but remember my son and my daughter to speak in power, tempered with love, for thou was shown love by me through my son, Jesus Christ, and all over the billion of iron heart, I loved thee, and I waited for thee, and when the time was set for turning, I turned thee into myself, and I would have been all that is all grace and mercy by which thou would stand to my good.

And I loved thee to spend thy time, said God, in my word, in the sound of study, and meditate, and read my word, say, of God, I will amount thee with the ability to enter.

Perfect. I shall not need the help of man, but I will serve God, directed by steps, and open my understanding to receive the deeper truths of my Holy Scriptures, sir, the Holy Scriptures. I'll be finished while on the back with Star-Histories, and I shall stand and say it is just God said, because it is coming to pass, say it's the Lord.

You know, so in hindsight, John, years later when Bruce ends up being critical of Hobart and leaving, it's amazing that this prophecy is still on the top drawer. It's still there. What are you going to do with it?

You know, Hobart says, at the very beginning of that, the Lord wants me to minister to Bruce and Kathy, and I think the next sentence he said, I never prophesied a family member. He said, I don't ever do that, so that has to be the Lord.

How does that first sentence prove that second sentence? I mean, it's just crazy the way even his own mind was sinking. I've heard you in the fact that I never do this, the fact that I'm going to do it now means that it's of God.

That's like saying, well, I never rob banks, but now that I'm going to rob this one, that proves that it's from the Lord. I mean, you could fill in anything. I never tell a lie, but now that I'm going to tell this lie, that proves that it's from the Lord.

People just balled into that. They thought, oh, yeah, wow, he never prophesies to the family. But he's the one who has sewn that fall in their mind. Wow, they're going to say to themselves, but they heard him say that.

He does the same thing later on this same message when he prophesies to Steve Hill and Hobart's daughter, Pam. He said, well, you know, I never prophesied to the family, so this proves that it's from God.

And people are going, wow, I mean, his honesty to let us know that he never would normally practice this nepotism under regular circumstances. So this has to be divine. But what do we hear in this prophecy?

He said, I'm calling God, the saith of the Lord. I am calling Bruce to the ministry of a prophet. You have the mantle of a prophet. I mean, it kind of sounds a little bit like the Apostle Paul, or you're going to minister to the Jew and to the Gentile.

Whoever says anything like that today, you know, whoever says you're going to minister to the Jew and to the Gentile. And what's so interesting in all of Freeman's prophecies and so many people are all the bees and the vows.

and the Yees and the Yees, and that's King James English, which that did not exist back in Biblical days. That wasn't in Hebrew, that wasn't in Greek, that's King James English, but they think that somehow, I don't know, it's just the most psychologically messed up stuff.

And at the very beginning, you're so right, John, he is definitely manipulating Bruce. Bruce has only been saved a few months, so Bruce isn't critical of Hobart at all, but Hobart already has his claws in him, the very beginning of this by saying, the only reason that you are saved because of the faith of your parents and because of the faith of June and I, because of your in-laws.

We're the ones who claimed you, and so you kind of owe your salvation to other people, not to God, you owe it to your parents and to your in-laws, June and I. Now, Hobart's gonna prophesy over him and say, I'm sending you out to a ministry with a mantle of a prophet to both Jew and Gentile.

I just read Romans one or I see Galatians when I see all this. So what I'm wondering though, John, are the people who followed Hobart in the late 70s, early 80s,

the people who are still following Hobart today, are they even aware of this prophecy? Are they aware that the same man that Hobart by divine inspiration of the spirit prophesied to, called him into the ministry of a prophet, is the same one Hobart prophesied to later and kicked out of the church and said, I'm gonna remove your lampstand because Bruce did not like Hobart's teaching against hunting, against Sodomite shoes, and against prostitute purses.

This is the same man, Hobart, and the same man, Bruce, one time Hobart's saying, you're gonna be a prophet to the nations, the next time kicking him out of his shirts because now Bruce disagrees with Hobart.

What are we gonna make of this contradiction? And this is where it fascinates me, the psychology behind this fascinates me. Not all cult leaders start out bad, but they have personality disorders that are crippling and disabling, and in essence, from the beginning stages of the formation of a cult leader, you should actually feel sorry for them.

They can't help what happens to them. Towards the end, so many bad things happen because they become so destructive that that element of feeling sorry for them is kind of replaced by all the bad things that happen.

But in my opinion, Hobart Freeman, he never intended to become a cult leader. like he did. He did, unfortunately, he had the same psychological issues that led him down the pathway, but there comes a point when the walls are closing in and you can watch this from cult leader to cult leader to cult leader from Jim Jones to Brannum to all the way back in time through history.

Some of the ancient ones you can find the same thing. Whenever the outside pressure comes, because one of the attributes of most cult leaders is this narcissistic personality disorder, they want to control everything and it is actually devastating to them psychologically and they'll become physically ill if they can't control everything. So, there comes a point in time in which they are purposefully deceptive for the sole reason of satisfying that hunger to control.

So, they will issue prophecies. They'll speak statements that they say come from God and did not come from God. They literally can't help it. You still actually should feel sorry for them. They can't help that they're doing this, but it's because the disease and it's not a disease, but it can be viewed like a disease. The thing in their head that is causing them to do it has now gone to a level crisis that is so far beyond help. They can't help what they're doing.

And so, in my opinion, whenever he's doing this, it's for the sole purpose of controlling Bruce, but also if you read through the rest of this thing that is called a sermon, it's also retribution against any person who might think otherwise. So, he's in one breath, he's issuing a fake prophecy to Bruce to control him. In the other breath, he's don't question my authority of giving this to Bruce. Otherwise, you're not of God and put the fear of God in them or the fear of whatever this is in them. All of it is because Hobart Freeman has developed, he's progressed in his psychological

disorder to the state of not being able to control himself. Yeah, yeah. He was definitely something was seriously wrong with him mentally, intellectually by the end of his life. And you know, I've been criticized, and it's okay. I don't think it's valid, but I've been criticized for all that I have done with you, John, for the last year and a half, 50-something podcast, because people will say, well, Jenna, you weren't there. You don't know anything. You're an outsider. And there's just truth to that, not to the claim. I don't know anything, but to the claim that I'm an outsider,

yes, there's definitely truth to that. But, you know, I was an outsider. I've always felt with an inside look and view into everything. But that criticism of me, I wish people would just pause and think about this. This prophecy to Bruce, which I've had in my back pocket for 50 years, he's cut off.

I even mentioned alluded to it on podcast months ago. I said, I have something that probably no one knows. And it's not that they shouldn't know. It is publicly available. Some people were sitting in the bar in the night. Hobart, I wasn't there. They were sitting there. They know this prophecy was given. All the other ministers, all of the other word ministers, they had access to the same tape that I've had all of these years. Why didn't they know that?

Why was this never addressed from the pulpit? Why didn't Hobart deal with it? Why didn't some of the other ministers say, the way I'm in Hobart, now here in this, um, excertations from Exodus tape message, you're going to kick Bruce out. You're going to prophesy against him. What are we going to do with your prophecy to him 11 years earlier in 1973 when you called him into the ministry as a prophet, where you said that the mantle of a prophet now rests upon him. What are we going to do with this now, Hobart? What are we going to do with this

contradiction? I always wondered that. So here's sometimes maybe, maybe where it is to my benefit that I was not caught up. I was not a minister at faith assembly. I was definitely a minister and definitely a minister that followed Freemannism in the early years of my life. But I wasn't a part of the group and the crowd there. And the group for some reason to this day still doesn't like me.

And I don't know why because they don't hold any of Hobart stuff. I don't hold to it. We should be friends now. They still don't like me. And I've never been able to get to the bottom of that.

And I have tried to reach out to them. But why wasn't this glaring inconsistency with Hobart kicking Bruce out of the church saying your lampstand is going to be removed if you don't repent of your ways. And get back into submission to me as God's only valid, reliable, entime minister and messenger. There's a huge inconsistency here. And look, this type of stuff, John, these personal prophecies, they are again rampant today in this prophetic circle. And they literally shipwreck people's lives because they're dangerous. You've got a minister up there under the anointing telling you things about your future. And that has a powerful influence

on your life. Do you realize the people that were sitting at the glory barn that night that was an evening service who didn't get a word, but whom you could imagine were sitting on the edge of their seat, hoping that he will have a word for me.

people need to go listen to the whole entire message or it's not a message it's just him ministering by the spirit he talks about a sister gallow way that i don't know i want to mention her name because i'm sure there's someone out there in youtube land who will know who sister gallow way was he said sister gallow way the lord has a word for you if you want it come up here this personal prophecy and prediction that he's giving to people he has a a word of knowledge john for a healing where he said it's a stomach condition we've talked about this before

like i have a stomach condition right this moment as we're talking right now my stomach hurts a little bit is probably because i need to go eat breakfast but a stomach condition eight out of 10 people have a stomach condition come on give me a break in the new testament's always very specific but it's just a stomach condition and so he says with that stomach condition um he said it only works if you step out and claim it by faith so it's putting all the burden and pressure on the person that's not how it worked in the new testament it Jesus just healed everyone that

came to him probably unbelievers and believers mixed together he didn't say now you have to be right in your life and exercise faith before this will work and what's so interesting on this stomach condition word of knowledge a woman finally timidly says something like i'll clean that for my stomach condition and hobart said i think this is more or less a quote i tried to write it down well it was a woman did i say that if i didn't then that just confirmed it to me he waited till the woman said it was her before he said well god showed me that it was a woman

no no no you have to tell us the names addresses everything in advance you know you can't be a magician you have to tell us all of that in advance and then when it's fulfilled then we will know your god's profiting god sent you when i hear stuff like that i'm sorry but it's very disturbing to me i have no respect for it at all he waited for a woman to claim that word of knowledge healing for her before he said oh yeah i meant to say it was a woman how convenient that it was a woman and you thought it was a woman but you don't tell us until a woman comes up

i just hope people will and there are people still following hobart freeman's ministry this is a serious problem and this wasn't the only case this is just the most explosive case in dr freeman's ministry that he had a word of such significance to such an important person calling him into the ministry as a pro of it, and no pastor has the authority to do anything like that, and it didn't come to pass. I'd like to read this verse in conclusion if I can, John, from Deuteronomy 18 and verse 22. When a prophet, which Hobart claimed to be more or less, speaketh in the name of the

Lord, that's when you say, thus sayeth the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord have not spoken, but that prophet had spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him. So there we go, that's the biblical mandate and requirement, and here was the sequence of events. Hobart gives a prophecy. Prophecy doesn't come to pass.

The conclusion is, that's a false prophecy. Hobart just prophesied it out of his own heart. Very unfortunate how people's lives have been controlled, manipulated, and eventually then shipwrecked by ministers going around giving personal prophecies like this. In the favorite verse that I go back to, always whenever I'm looking at this, works righteous faith that these guys were pushing, if you look at Colossians 2, I think it is, let no one disqualify you insisting on asceticism, which means a wide ray of things, but basically asceticism is forbidding yourself to do the things that other people do for the sake of a holy end. Worship of angels going on in detail

about visions, but this is the key, puffed up without reason, by his own sensuous mind. You look at all of these cult leaders, that's what they are. They're all puffed up in their own head, and it's sad to see people following it, but hopefully we've said something that will help people to not. So thank you for doing this. Yeah, thanks for having me, John.

Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.