Agenda Over Doctrine: Branham, NAR & Manifested Sons

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brandham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brandham Historical Research at William-Brandham.org and with me I have my co-host, researcher and friend, John McKinnon, author of the Persuasive Preacher, the Gifted Profit, and the Noble Politician. John, it's good to be back and to talk about the continued discussion about the 70 disciples. We, you know, last episode whenever we were talking through this, I'm sure we blew a few heads because I know some of those stories that you and I

are going through, people who were in the Brandham called had no idea. Most of them just kind of tuned it out as they were listening to these recordings over and over again, but then to the people who were outside looking in or thinking, oh my gosh, this just doesn't make any sense. But what we're getting into today, really a continuation of that discussion, it answers some of the questions that come from people who are outside of the Brandham cult, which is really interesting if you think about it. I commonly get this question, why does the NAR and all of its various apostolic networks, why are they so quick to

restore these apostles, so-called apostles and prophets after some of them have been exposed to just some horrific things? You know, the average Christian believes that there is grace and there is, there is a Christian restoration. God can forgive you. There's a process that usually happens where there is usually a person who's apologetic of the things that they've done. They, they issue apologies, but in the NAR, there's often no apology, there's often no consequence. They just suddenly get restored and why is this? And today we're going to be talking more about the agenda. It's basically agenda over doctrine.

And some of the names we're going to mention, we're, you know, we're obviously going to bring up William Brandham, but if you think beyond this, if you think of the early formation of what would become the charismatic movement, and then think about the people who are training those who would eventually become leaders in the NAR. I think you'll begin to understand how important what we're discussing today is to the whole rest of the story. So in essence, today we're talking about Brandham, but really we're talking about the broader scope of the movement. John is good to be back once again and good to be

discussing these topics, which are most important to us, which are very important to the broader Christian world and how we view things, and I wanted to say this will be part two. I want to further talk about the 70 disciples, and I meant to bring some things in about the manifested sons of God and how it all relates and how this thing springboarded out.

One doctrine shows you how twisting just one little piece of scripture can throw you off into things, and even people with agendas, they will use scripture sometimes to push agendas. And so I realized that I had more material to cover after I made the episode five. So this will be episode six, but part two, you know, the 70 disciples. So I wanted to make this part two to show some of the motives that were really, I feel like we're behind the scenes of the teaching surrounding these 70 disciples, and the issues we've been covering is, you know, how William Brannum had

spearheaded the whole movement, which now consists of men, and a lot of them have little knowledge of the gospel, or even extensive knowledge of the Bible, and they've studied under various mentors, and they all have the same mindset, and they teach them, you know, along a certain path, and they're leading people down this particular path, and promoting really the use of raw supernatural power, political involvements, and other things, and also the being manifested as a son of God to be able to have this powerful anointing own you while you're here on earth to do exploits. So Brannum and those of the latter reign really promoted these concepts in the beginning,

and they just borrowed it from things that happened earlier, which you have gone into prior to this episode, but, you know, we're going to talk about from the latter reign own, but Brannum and the latter reign promoted a lot of these concepts, and then many in the message think, even think Brannum became a manifested son of God, you know, while he lived, and because he had this testimony of spoken word, and we spoken about in the last episode of the creation of squirrels, you know, by the spoken word, Brannum truly believed, you know, God was about to raise up an army, you know,

of manifested sons, you know, who will use the spoken word to create things or speak things into existence. So as we go through each of these scriptures, you know, where Brannum twisted the meaning, you know, there's more we're going to bring out, you know, we're going to see the true motives, you know, behind it, and why he taught these things as he did, and it's all culminating, you know, it all paints a big picture, culminating in his belief of the final capstone to the pyramid, and the making up of the bride of Christ, you know, before Jesus comes, you know, he required

everyone to believe his message alone, and to make it in the bride to be able to be a part of the bride, but in the broader scope of the NAR, you know, they've invited everyone to come and be a part of this movement.

And there's really no focus on any one particular profit, there's many profits, there's many apostles, and there's no one focus on any particular message, except they do have an agenda that they do push, and that's their message.

It's something like the seven-mounted mandates that you've talked about. Exactly. And there's so much going on here, as we'll get into some of the people who were in William Brannum's inner circle, and I think even broader than that.

If you look at the photographs of these conventions where Brannum was speaking, you had literally hundreds of people there. Some of the people who were there went on to have good, solid ministries. Others turned into cult-like ministries, but all of these people are listening to this guy speak, Brannum, who know that he's not quite right in his doctrine.

He's off completely in some places. In fact, as we'll get into it later, some of the people who were working with Brannum actually admitted, no, he doesn't know what he's talking about, and with regards to the Bible.

But all of these men are listening to it, and recognizing that for the greater good of the agenda, and the agenda at that time was more the manifest sons of God theology. That's really when it comes down to it, that's what they were calling the message of the hour.

The idea that these manifested sons would restore the offices, the power, the signs, the wonders, the gifts, etc. To push that agenda forward, they needed people like Brannum to attract the crowds. So as part of the agenda, they didn't really care, is the off on doctrine or not.

In doing so, they enabled him. For me, this is the thing that really angers me the most, because these men allowed this for their agenda, it allowed an enabled Brannum to create a destructive cult.

So therefore, the cult that I grew up in, it only existed because these men allowed it. They did up and said, wait a minute, this doctrine is completely off until after he died. Then they all began to admit, yeah, he didn't know what he was talking about with regards to the Bible, but he could sure attract a crowd.

That's really all this is about. So John, I'm going to a little bit about how Brannum was deceived, or how he became self-deceived, and it all stemmed from his belief that he had something to say.

It all stemmed from his belief that he was more powerful, probably than any other minister of his time. But Eddie Hyatt wrote in 2018, August 16, 2018 in charisma. He wrote this about Brannum.

He said, when the time came for Brannum to preach in the evening services, Lindsey would introduce him in a low key manner, while at the same time acknowledging that God was using him in a remarkable way.

One time when Lindsey was away, a brother backster, you know, who emseed the meetings, introduced Brannum. His flowery introduction was filled with glowing accolades, and he referred to Brannum as a special entity. I'm Prophet of God."

When Lindsay returned, Bramham said, Brother Lindsay, I think I would like for Brother Baxter to introduce me for now on. And this particular episode was relayed to this person, Eddie Hyatt, by the late Frida Lindsay, which was Gordon Lindsay's wife, who was privy to all these details that were described.

And then after that, Bramham began to surround himself with individuals who fed his ego with ideas about being a special end time Prophet of God. And Lindsay sought to warn him about this, but his advice was not heated.

You know, that's according to Eddie Hyatt. I did find something else about this particular incident on Facebook. And this Facebook page is the way Bramham the message then and now. This was also published in May of 2018 prior to this charisma article.

But here's the excerpt from that. Brother Lindsay related an experience he'd had with that prophet, speaking of William Bramham. Brother Lindsay said, I told him, you're not a teacher, so don't try to teach.

He was a preacher and a good one at that. He had a marvelous manifestation of the Holy Spirit and his ministry. Brother Lindsay said, I begged him not to teach. I said, you don't know the Bible and you're confusing folks.

Leave the Bible teaching to the teachers. Go ahead and preach and exercise the word of knowledge, gifts of healing, as the Spirit wills and be a blessing to the body of Christ. This prophet, which is William Bramham, said to Brother Lindsay, I know I'm not a teacher, but I want to teach and I'm going to teach.

So we see based on these interactions here that was had not only did he want to feed that ego of being the end time Prophet. He also wanted to make his message central to what was happening there in the healing revival.

He eventually didn't take back seat and that's what began the separation between him and the Pentecostal world is him starting to veer off into these strange doctrines that he wanted to promote because most of the Pentecostal world did not accept the latter reign anyway, which I've been going through in detail and that was really part of the reasons is why.

So he was very adamant about being a teacher at this time. I want to go through a few more quotes now and try to show where I believe Bramham was leading the people, you know, saying things without really coming out and being plain about it, about what he meant.

But I think he knew what he meant, but he was saying it in a way just like he never declared himself to be the prophet of God for the age. He said it in a way that people knew he was talking about himself.

So I believe this is in the same line of thinking. To me, his words and these sermons, and it's not only these quotes I'm going to read, there's many others just don't have time to go through them all.

And they're telling the people that he has an excuse. of truth. You know, that's what he's saying to him. And when you walk away from my truth, it's evidence that you don't believe the truth and you need to be like the disciples and just believe by faith, you know, blind faith and or if you don't do that, then your name's going to be removed from the book of life if you walk away from me. And he did this through his teaching of the 70 disciples. So this is one way he tried to keep people under his wing and those that did

trust him, you know, they were scared to death to even say one thing against him as he was coming out with these new doctrines, which eventually one of them became the serpent seed and so forth.

So here's a quote from 1957. And you know, this is the times he was working with Jim Jones and he was having trouble keeping his meetings financed and so forth. So he says this in June 13th, God keeps his word, you know, one time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples and he began to tell them the truth, began to let down the hammer, clean out the church, bringing the word. He says 70 turned and walked from him. And then Jesus said to the 12, we also go and he said, Lord, where will we go? He said, that's it. So so he's using this 70 over and over again, you know, to say there's

multitudes of people going to leave me because I'm telling you the truth and it's the same as it was in Jesus' day. Here he says in another sermon three years later, July 12th, 1960, here you him, he said, compare that with the days gone by with our Lord. When he was healing the sick and the afflicted, many people came to him. When he fed 5,000, many came to him. But when he began to sit down and tell them the truth, what happened? All of them began to turn away. The 70 even turned. Now I want you to

know that we showed last time, you know, in the last episode about the 70 that they were not even commissioned yet at this event in John 66 when they his disciples, which were generally the people that were kind of following Jesus, not really maybe committed, but they were learners and disciples.

And while he was in Galilee at this time, you know, Capernum, Bissadia and the Galilee. But at a later time, he turned his way and went toward Judea to enter and end up in Jerusalem. And that's when he commissioned those 70. So then he turned his disciples and said, we also go and Peter made those great words to whom shall we go? See? So the timeline has been put together and the resources that I was able to find that put the forsaking of Jesus at this time, it was in his Galilee and ministry.

And the commissioning of the 70 occurs at a later time in his Judea and ministry. And we discuss that last time that the passage of those disciples where they deserted Jesus in John 6 happened very soon after the feeding of the 5,000. And all four gospels do do detail that event of the 5,000 being fed. So that is a good time marker for the gospels to know that right there at the same time. So if you follow the Gospels on through, you'll find that the commissioning of the 70 occurred later on. And it's still not a very easy subject to study because the Gospels

John tends not to include all the details that Luke includes and vice versa. So here's another quote when he's talking about present stage of my ministry 1962 as we move on September the 8th, he said, now he even puts Jesus being in Galilee at this time when those disciples left. So we know that's true. When Jesus, the young prophet of Galilee, you know, he places this time that Jesus was in Galilee and not Jerusalem quite yet, he said, he got a time that he was forsaken.

All man who stayed with God's word gets to that place when they're forsaken by the world and the religious world. Jesus fed the 5,000 one day. They picked up the baskets full of the loaves and two fishes. The next day, I believe it was, he began to come down with the word. All of them began to depart from him. He looked around to the disciples and said, will you also go? He said, even 70 of his own ordained ministers left him. And he said, will you also go talking to the 12 and then Peter spoke those notable words were Lord, where would we go? That only has eternal

life. Notice, but the time come when the forsaking time come and that's got to come, it must come. And now I've got several prophets and things here to refer to to prove you that that time come.

He said, and it's arrived for me. So in the present stage of his ministry, he is now declaring that all these people leaving me is parallel letting what happened with Jesus and he misplaced the 70 disciples to try to prove his point.

But he said, it's arrived for him. So even by him referring to the Galilee and ministry, he might have known the correct timeline, but still decided to use that illustration just to represent his own ministry. But the worst picture is that he made a doctrine out of this.

And even say, and go so far as to say, Christians name can be written down in heaven by God, and then at some point he raced where that Christian will be lost. That's what's damaging to Christians. That's why this whole doctrine built upon the 70 disciples is very damaging, and he expounds that in his church-age book. But William Brannum, whether intentionally or not, it didn't still fear and his followers that you never really know you're saved, no, unless you're following his exact words. And that's really the heart of the matter.

The Bible says, perfect love casts out fear. And if you understand all of the passages where Jesus is explaining the way to be a true Christian, it's all about love, and it's all about comfort and knowing what God has done for you, not what you need to do for God. But any person who brings a, I hate to use the word gospel, but they're they're calling it the gospel, but they're combining it with an agenda.

You cannot have what they're claiming as gospel combined with agenda without fear. Because what happens is if somebody disagrees with that agenda or questions that agenda, they step out of your agenda and your whole agenda falls apart.

So you must have guardrails around them and those guardrails are usually fear. That's really the only way that this works. And that's why that's one of the other questions I commonly get. Why did they use fear tactics to keep us corralled whenever we were in these movements?

Why didn't they just preach perfect love? As the Bible says, well, that's the reason. It's because agenda plus false gospel combined, the only way to keep it going, to keep it moving further that agenda is through fear.

So yeah, John, I mean, this thing just, as we dive into this even more, we just see the darkness of it. And we see how it hurts Christians' faith. Overall, they wonder, do I have eternal security or do I not?

And when Jesus could even make the statement to disciples that, well, your names are written in heaven and then, and then William Brown comes with a teaching with those names removed from heaven. I mean, that's very contrary to scripture in my book because Jesus can't make one statement and he make a contrary statement and that'd be true.

You know, if Jesus ever said your names are written in heaven, they're never going to be erased, you know, from that book. So here's another quote that William Brown him said in 1963 in January 22nd, remembering the Lord sermon.

He said, but one day he sat down again to tell them the gospel truth. He wasn't popular from then on. No, he never. The first thing you know, all that group walked away and the 70 said, you know, this is a hard say and who could understand it and they walked away.

Now, the Bible never said that the 70 said this. It just said there was murmuring among his disciples and they were saying, who could understand this? I think it might have been even the Pharisees if we go back and read the scriptures that were saying this is such a hard saying.

But it wasn't the 70 because the Bible never says it wasn't 70. And then he says, well, let's remember the Lord like that. So he wants him over and over. He's programming his people to believe the scriptures in the way he's presenting them.

You know, he wants you to think of him that way and remember him that way. There's another sermon identification in 1964, February 16th, where he says, teachers all against him, everything and his miracles identified him.

So here you see, he relies on the supernatural and miracles and his so-called gift of discernment. Really, he relies on that to vindicate a ministry. He doesn't just say, I'm going back to scriptures alone and then seeing if my ministry does correspond to scripture where I could say I'm a prophet.

No, he says, miracles identify you. And he even said the miracles identify Jesus. But you know, that's not even true because. People had to search the scriptures to find out when the Messiah was to come.

Was he the Messiah and did Jesus, you know, did he fulfill the scriptures that were written of him? So it was more than just miracles. And so here's what else he goes on to say.

And when the 70 guide up, the pastors and the ministers got up, says, we can't understand that. And would you have walked away like that congregation? Or would you have been like them disciples?

I don't care what they say. See, it's there. And then Jesus turned and gave them a trial. You also want to go. So you see, he's saying, you got to be the kind of person that says, I don't care what's being said.

I'm just going to believe it anyway. And that's where another big danger is because that's what's happening today. These apostles and prophets, so today, they can say anything. So if you're going to go by William Brown's words, you got to believe whatever they say.

And that's not the way we're to be as Christians. We're to be very critical of what's being talked to us or told to us and always compare it back to scripture. We just can't blindly accept things.

So here's another thing he says in the same quote here. He says, and he said, now when you see the Son of Man identifying himself as God now. So here, William Brown is plainly comparing his ministry with Jesus, telling the people that a Son of Man, Jesus Christ, but he's also believing he's a Son of Man.

He's identifying himself as God. And see, the way William Brown pushed this is that Jesus was just a man, but when God moved through him, he was identifying Jesus as God because Jesus stood in the place of God.

And it goes so far as to say not that Jesus was God, but that God being in him made him God. So William Brown does the same thing to identify himself as God. Because really what he was teaching toward the end of his life is when Christ is stepped into me.

Now I'm God to the people. And an example quote that you've said many times, John, is when he says, I am God's voice to you. And that particular quote does show what he really believes about this.

There's another, I'll read a couple more quotes here in a greater than Solomon's here in 1964. This is March 6th. He said, then he looked around to those theologians sitting around him, them 70.

Now it's kind of interesting that he's now really throwing off only 70 as being theologians, doctors of divinity and ministers. Because really the learned people of the day when he was here, when William Brown was here, they were pointing out these errors in his doctrine.

And so he always threw off on the learned man that had been maybe studied the Bible, been a seminary. And now he's put in the 70 in that same category when the 70 had nothing to do with going to a seminary at the time.

He's a common ordinary people that were following Jesus and he commissioned them. So he says, what will you say when he's... the Son of Man is sending up in heaven from once he came. Them doctors of divinity looking around said the Son of Man has sent up in heaven for where he came. While we know him, we've been to the stable where he was born and so forth. And then he said he still didn't explain it to him.

He just let him just believe it. But see, he kept throwing off on them as being doctors of divinity and and theologians. Kind of an amazing thing. Another one that got identified by his characteristics 1964 in March the 11th. He said, he said to the 70 sitting there, his ministers he had ordained to go out and preach before him. He said, I'll give them a shake and see where they're at.

So now he's acting like he's going to test the 70 to see if they're going to be true believers or not. And then he said, um, they walked away. They said, we can't see this. You see what happened.

He said, it never moved them disciples talking about the 12. He said, they couldn't explain it. He said, all of them walked away talking about the 70. He said, he never explained. He didn't have to. So now he's showing how, you know, you just got to believe even though you can't explain it, you know, just continue to believe. And he's leading the people alone. This is 1964. So he's been leading the people along, give them all these doctrines and moving the people into this thing that he's been moving into. And what he calls his new ministry, the third pull.

And he says, you can't explain it, but just believe it anyhow. And he also says that, you know, Jesus was testing these these these the 70 disciples to see if they would stay with him.

You know, it's all just a ruse to point point to himself and to point that he is actually, you know, the one following the Lord and you just got to believe him. So so listen to this quote.

This is a pretty lengthy quote, but calling Jesus on the scene 1964 or March the 19th. He said, and he's talking about the Christian here. He says, so does a pedigree Christian. He knows who his father is. He come from God. He is the word of God. He's the same as he ever was.

He's the real pedigree product of God. The word of God is in him. Jesus Christ manifesting himself. This is a very important statement because by this time, his doctrine of the manifest sons of God was taking, you know, a very concrete shape. And here he is, you know, he's got the people to believe, well, I come from God and I'm going back from God.

So so what I see in this part of the quote is another doctrine that relates to the serpent seed coming out. You know, William Brown, I believe that true Christians are actually seeds in the God in God's mind, even that were created. And I've got a quote from another minister in Ohio long ago that was said, all God's children were created at one time. And so they believe there are seeds coming out of God, you know, and they're in God prior to coming to earth and that God seeds in the serpent seed are now being born in the earth. And that's why he says the pedigree

Christian knows that he come from God. And I believe also that we For God's children, you know, I definitely don't agree with this, but I only believe we're God's children after we're born again, because we're born dead.

The Christian before he's born again is just as dead as anybody else in this world, you know, to believe that you come from God as a seed, as some eternal seed, and that you always had eternal life, I think that's also contrary to scripture.

I fully believe that because that gets people to exalt themselves above God. It gets them to have this pride in them. They don't realize that, hey, you were just a sinner like everybody else, and you need to be born again.

And thank God he chose you as one of his own. So the difference is that Brandon believed we were always a son of God, and God just sent you to the earth to manifest himself in you.

And that's where I believe the danger is because with this doctrine in mind, we depart from the gospel, and then we begin to think highly of ourselves. We think our ourselves is always having eternal life even, and that we were always a child of God just waiting for a ministry like William Brannum's to come on the scene so we can see the light, and our seed would come to life because we saw the manifestation of Christ.

You know, that's the basic doctrine that is being taught here. You know, I believe it's not in line with the gospel though, and this doctrine is very destructive also because it really demeans who Jesus Christ really is and all that he did.

So had it not been for Jesus Christ, I would never have been born again. I would never have a chance to be a child of God. I would be totally out of the economy of God.

There's no way I could say I came from God and he was going to save me anyway. It took Jesus Christ to do it, and that's where Jesus Christ cannot be demeaned. He was God Himself.

It took God Himself coming out of the throne of God down into a body of flesh, you know, to do this work. You know, this is all difficult to explain in the short period of time we have, but you know, the essence that William Brannum is teaching is that Jesus was only a son of God in the beginning, you know, like all other God's children, or except that He was first born, so He's greater than us.

Jesus, according to the way the message teaches this, if you can read and you can understand it, and if you follow this through, the line of thought, you know, Jesus was not really God until God came down to dwell in Him, you know, in the baptism in the river Jordan.

And then God actually left Him and went to heaven when He was on the cross. Now, I think that's pure heuricy because I think Jesus was God in the flesh from the time He was born as a baby until the time He gave up the spirit of God at the cross, you know, not in the garden of Gisemite, not any other time prior to that.

He actually had to give up His life because He was eternal life. You know, I believe what is being repackaged here is just Aryanism, and that was a heuricy that was back when the early days of the church, you know, it was one of the heuricys that Jesus was just a created being.

He was not really God, but He. But because God anointed him and God was in him it made him God But but you know, I think that if you go back to Aryanism and what that was it's just it's just being repackaged Maybe in a few different ways So that can all be explained later in an additional broadcast to expound more of that But then William Adam goes on he says you're a bunch of unbelievers You know, Jesus wanted to shake off a bunch of parasites one day. He had too many following him He had his disciples then he had to 70 the ministerial association

And then he had the congregation by the thousands And then he said that's as much as they could stand when he went through his discourse on you know, except you eat the flesh and drink the blood He said that's as much as they could stand. They still have the same groups. That's right. We have them still We notice then he turned Remember those disciples couldn't explain it either, but they had faith So that's the line of faith, but we see faith don't know no failure. It's anchored It stays there no matter what anything said it stayed there

They were ordained to this life and they stayed there Some said a man never spoke like this man. There's something strange about him. What he says he's able to back up Well, they did say that you know said he don't talk like a priest. He doesn't talk like a rabbi For what he says God backs it up. He vindicates what he said. Oh my So we see that it's all in the discernment at the end of the said the sermons that he preached where he calls out people and And the events in their lives seems to be true

That's what he's talking about vindication because he's certainly not talking about the prophecies that he spoke You know, he'll claim that they were true, but we we have very clear documented evidence that you know Many if not most prophecies that he ever spoke were way after the fact or didn't even come to pass so This is what he's referring to when he says he he's vindicates he wants you to understand that He wants you to believe that God was vindicating him in the same way So there's another one called scriptural signs of the times 1964 able to tent

He said but watch all the time those disciples couldn't explain it either, but they believed it They couldn't explain it. They were ordained to that life He said they know the message of the hour. They know what it was supposed to be So that's where he says there's a message of the hour and it's all to You know Build you up and put you into his that place he wanted you to be and he said that's the ones that's ordained to life Because they knew the message of the hour So he's getting very clear about what he's saying the 64

Again in June 14th. He said in unveiling of God. He said um Some will believe for a little while like the disciples. They followed him many of them 70 followed him for years to find out a year and a half two years Just to find out they could find something in him Uh Like some way he had power to do these things like a rabbit food or a magician of some sort What he could do to produce these things how he could know what was in the people's heart and what they were thinking And they finally found out that he said that he come down from heaven. He was the word himself

So you see in this quote, he's not only referring to Jesus Christ because he's saying, you know, his main ministry was knowing the secrets of the people's heart. That's what he said, vindicated him.

And that's really all I know that you could say that he could even say that vindicated him that we can hear on tape. But that's what Wayne Brandham is teaching about himself that he actually came down from heaven.

He was the word himself. This is what he's becoming. He's becoming this manifested son of God. He's wanting to present himself as that. And that's why you see these quotes spoken the way they are.

And when he did that, that was way too much for them. They said, no, man can understand this. And they walked away from him. He said, that's those who fell among thorns being the seed that fell among the thorns and was choked out.

So there was another one. I'll read one more in that same sermon. He said, then we become a part of him, Christ, as you are the veil that veils him. You are part of him as long as Christ is in you as Christ was of God.

Now it's interesting that he said Christ was of God and not that Christ was God because we, I believe that Jesus was the Christ born, the Christ Lord. Jesus Christ from birth, but he said Christ is of God.

And I don't know if he meant to, meant that, you know, in the fact that, you know, Christ really wasn't God or not, but it's interesting how he said that. He said, because God was in him, made him God.

Now see, that, to me, that firms it up because at first he says, as Christ was of God, then he says, right after that, because God was in him, that made him God. So it's very clear to me, John, that, you know, William Brannum is teaching that Jesus only became God because God was in him.

You know, not that Jesus was God from the beginning with the father from all eternity. You know, he also eventually projects to the bride in that same manner that, and that's the teaching that we become God's as well as Christ became God, you know, when he transitioned into God because God was in him.

And it's all because you see quotes like this, you know, it, you know, he, he says, you are a part of him as long as Christ is in you as Christ was of God because God was in him, made him God.

And I think the statement really should be said to be correct is because he was God, it wasn't because he became God. He was God all time and eternity, you know, with a father in the beginning, and he came out of God and became flesh.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

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On behalf of William Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. I differ with some of my peers in that I believe that there are people who are in the message, who believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and who are saved.

And I know to the people outside looking in who are listening to what you're saying, thinking, oh my gosh, what Brannum is preaching is anti-biblical, it's actually anti-Jesus, what he's preaching. How can these people be saved?

They're serving a different Jesus. I've actually got into conversations where we talked about this with people, some of my peers, and they think that the entire group of people as a whole are destined to hell because they believe in a different Jesus.

But I'm going to argue that there are two cases that disagree with this. Number one, there are people within the cult who have never heard Brannum say these things. They have no idea that Brannum is actually preaching against Jesus to empower himself.

And if they were to come in contact with this, it would set off all kinds of alarms in their head. Why is he doing this? Why is he preaching against Jesus? So there are a categorization of people who truly have no idea that Brannum is doing this.

But then there are the people like I was in the cult. People who were so brainwashed and programmed, and their brain tries to reconcile through cognitive dissonance what they're reading in the Bible with what he's saying that is completely against the Bible.

And as you do this, as your brain tries to reconcile this, you start to merge the two thoughts as one, and you start to believe that yes, the Bible says that Jesus is divinely God.

Yes, William Brannum said the opposite, but William Brannum also said the same thing. So therefore, I'm going to merge it in my head. And there are people like this who do believe the God, the Jesus of the Bible, even though they also believe William Brannum said these things and their brain has just merged them through cognitive dissonance.

There's a third category of people who know this, believe it, serving a different Jesus. Yes, I'll give you that, but there are some people who truly read their Bible and understand it within the movement.

It wasn't until after I left. I began to realize that my brain was programmed in this way, and I was mortified. I was afford to think that he was actually preaching against Jesus on several occasions.

This gets really scary if you think about the NAR today. The manifest sons of God theology is the foundation for a lot of these NAR leaders. There are so many people who built upon that theme and that theology, but unlike Brannum, they're not preaching against Jesus, they're just preaching one piece of it.

So now you have a fourth categorization of people in the world today who are in the NAR, who they believe the elements that are being taught that were built on top of that theology of a different anti-biblical Jesus.

But there are people who don't understand that they need to go to that level to bring Jesus down in power and deity so that they can be empowered and more deified themselves. However, over time is that doctrine is there and they begin to think about it.

There are people who will eventually come to that conclusion because you have to. If you're preaching a different Jesus and you go down the pathway of understanding that different Jesus, you will eventually realize that to do this, you have to bring Jesus outside of divine and that's sadly where it's going to end up.

So there are a bunch of people out there who don't know that yet that they're supposed to do this and what happens with those people. Whether they go there, do new groups spin off once they realize this, does it splinter again?

So I can't even put a number to it. We have this massive number of people who will eventually create something else that may be even worse than what we came out of. John, the more we just dive into these things, you know, you just get deeper and deeper into the mire and you realize how far off you really get from scriptures.

And the same thing is happening throughout the Christian world today. If you don't stay with the scriptures, you're going to end up somewhere as we've seen what's happened with the new apostolic reformation. There's a lot of them way out there and we could go through many of the things they believe and say and it's just clear error.

William Brannum was much more subtle about it and you really had to weigh through all his messages to understand what he's really saying. But that's what I'm attempting to do is try to point out some of these things.

But I think that William Brannum really recognizes that at this stage, if he was wrong, then he's truly operating against God. But I think it was really too late for him to back up and redo things.

He would not back down even in the eras and he fought it to the very end because this is a sermon in 1965, January the 20th, lean not to your own understanding. He said, Oh, people, don't think you may think I'm crazy, but when my voice is silenced in death, these tapes will still be plain.

And you'll recognize that what I've said has come to pass. I would be a most silly person. to take a stand that I have took, to even against this thing, I would be against God.

I would be against everything that God, that's God. If I had, I was wrong in my thinking and my calling. He said, the thing would be against God, but I have took my stand because I see it in the word.

It's God's word. I see it being vindicated. Proven that is the truth, that's the interpretation that God gives of his word. And so what I'm wondering here is when he's talking about vindication, he certainly can't talk about his prophecies here. I think he's only referring to his discernments, and even his discernments were not 100%. But here he goes saying, the thing would be very against God.

He says, I took my stand because I see it in the word. And as he said in his 1955 life story, which we mentioned before, he said he eventually took his own interpretation of things. He wouldn't listen to the ministers. He wouldn't listen to those surrounding maybe with a little more wisdom than he had. Him being in his 20s, when he started out, and eventually he got to where he said, I'm just taking my own interpretation of it. And that's really what got him in trouble.

In 1960, Thiravatar church aged December the 8th, he said, well, that's true interpretation of a prophet. A prophet has the divine interpretation of God's word. That's exactly right. How can a person call one somebody a prophet and then say they have the wrong revelation? It's just as much sense as eternal censorship, again, you see, the prophet means the correct diviner, the one that has the word of the Lord come to, the revelation came to him. The word prophet means a diviner of the divine word. Jesus said, if there be one among you spiritual prophet, either Lord will speak to him.

And if what he says comes to pass, then hear him. I'm with him. If it doesn't come to pass, then don't hear him. That's all it was. It was the divine word of God and the word of the Lord came to the prophets. So here he's trying to point out the fact. I think he knows for sure that if if you're a prophet, what you say has to come to pass. So it's kind of strange that his own words, you know, didn't always come to pass. And yet he's going to still put himself out there as a prophet

of God. And the spoken word of the original seed, 1962, March 18th, he said, then the people say, Brother Brannum is a prophet. Oh, you believe him as long as he's talking to the people, tell them their sins, things like that, which is the discernments. But then he goes on teaching. You don't you believe that? Well, you poor hypocrite. You don't know nothing. Doesn't the Bible say the word of the Lord come to the prophets? I don't call myself a prophet. I'm no prophet, but you said so.

I'm saying what you said and then turn around and say a thing like that. Don't you say you didn't do it? I've even got a tape where you said it. You didn't know that. Did you just want you to say you didn't one time? That's all I want you to say. Let your own voice play back to you.

out of a hilarious quote because it just shows his, you know, animosity toward the people that we're saying. Hey, I don't think your teachings is exactly right. But they saw his discernments and then maybe at one time they said he was a prophet of the Lord. But that just shows you what's in this is movement in the broader charismatic world. They won't come right out and say and call the spade a spade a lot of times. They'll let you go on with the false prophecies just as long as you're gathering the crowds and doing some supernatural

things and maybe praying for the sick and people who rejoice in and all that. All that's even more important than the word of God we see. And that's what leads to quotes like this is to where he said, well, the people call me a prophet. Now, how can you say I'm a prophet and then you don't believe my teaching. It just produces a mess, John. And I'll say that based on what Wayne Brown said in this particular quote, there's a mountain of evidence available, you know, but forever seal his fate as a false prophet. He may have talked with God and may have loved God,

may have loved the people and the people may have loved him. But he absolutely cannot be called a diviner of the divine word as he's trying to say here. And you have named so many false prophecies prophecies that he gave many that were revised, of course, when he spoke in 1960 in that sermon.

And they were revised after he even spoke them ahead of time. And a lot of other deceptive practices like that. So we have to be very careful these days. If you do believe God's do as people in the church that have prophetic gifts, then you have to be extra careful. You have to stay vigilant, you know, every time you listen to him discerning, you know, what they're saying and discerning what you're associated with. And I think we can say that, you know, we all agree that the Bible must have the final say so. If you don't, then I don't say how you could say you were even

a Christian. But if someone's to venture out into that space that we're talking about here, they have to be willing to listen to others who are on the cautionary side. You know, these things that we have seen easily leads to deception. And they've even deceived their own leaders as we've seen when most gifted people in the last century that go off into error. You know, I would prefer to fellowship with groups that focus only on the gospel teaching through the scripture so I can understand them more and focus on the salvation of souls teaching the words

that I can live a better Christian life and supporting those who are most needy and doing the same, you know, here in our country and also overseas, especially overseas. So what I'm suspicious about a group that are speaking of taking over the government institutions, ruling the world, ruling over people to bring back Jesus Christ, you know, and also speaking, say under the anointing, you know, things to people that dictate what should be their private choices in life, you know, such as who they marry, what car they should buy, where they should live, you know, and also speaking some demonstration of supernatural power that's going to come to the church to rock the

You know, I'm very suspicious about those type of groups and I tend to want to steer clear of those John Well, that's just it. It really all comes back to agenda If you understand what these people are doing and you understand all of the things that we see the fear tactics the false prophecy the false Restorations of apostles all of these things That's not the problem on although people go to those and say that this is the problem with the movement That is really what you're seeing as a result of the problem of the movement and it's the agenda and so from from the outside of the

NAR looking in they see the seven mountains mandate for example, and they say that's the agenda of the movement They're wanting to take control. It's not really that. That's not the agenda The agenda if you understand the core theology that produced all of this from all of this came the idea that God was not in power Jesus Branum said it openly Jesus was just a man whenever he died on the cross and that The Jesus Jesus was not divine basically so therefore as Not a deity of the Christian faith which is named after Jesus Christ as not a deity

He's not in control so as the church began to develop and form through all of the church history that exists into what we have today What they're trying to say their true agenda is to say that God is not in control We need to become like gods and we need to become in control ourselves to fix the mess that God made When it all comes right down to it. That's it They'll tell you that the religious systems that exist today they're evil They're plagued with Satanism or you know, whatever is the demonic thing that they're saying and in its essence

The agenda is that God is not in control. Therefore we must be in control. We must become like gods like the serpent You can become like God. You can know both good and evil and you can do the things that God could not do because he's not divine And it's essence. That's the agenda and for me You know, it is scary whenever I think about all of these movements that exist because of this Where does it go from there whenever it turns to that level of evil?

Where does it go? Yeah, John You know, we're only beginning to scratch the surface of these things and Just as with the use of the 70 disciples and using that scripture and and using it as part of your ministry We see that the deception, you know here it runs very deep Because there's a lot of things underline all these things as being said, you know this teaching, you know, may seem innocent You know, just hey, I made a mistake. I I said the 70 disciples walked away from me That may not have been true, but it may seem innocent, but that I built and that's just a tip of the iceberg

You know an iceberg is a huge mass of ice most of us underwater When you when you speak about one little scripture that you misinterpreted and then used it for your own ends is just a tip of the iceberg that we're seeing. And if you ignore that and you think it's innocent, you know, underline what is being said there is where the danger is. You know, the iceberg is beneath the water. That's what's going to sink your ship. And that's where all the danger is, you know, just so you can't ignore what's above the surface. You have to scrutinize and examine

everything because this one little thing leads to the whole motivation of William Brown and what makes him tick. You know, he may have been able to project a humility to people commence him. He was humble, but he was very adamant about his beliefs in himself. He was adamant about himself to be a teacher, a major prophet, you know, with a last-day message. And in fact, to the most important people of God who live on this earth today, which is his church, you know, his self-deception, I believe, came in several ways. We see this today as pride in your own beliefs. Trust in your supernatural

workings above the scripture, blind to your own failed prophecies. You know, there's very few prophets of today that will come forth and say, hey, I was wrong. I need to step down. You can't call me a prophet anymore. They just carry on as if it didn't even happen. Same thing happened in William Brown's ministry. And also failing, being stubborn and wanting to teach and having influence among people was another thing that led to William Brown himself deception. And also failing to heed the warnings from others, you know, that he was working with. I believe, he

believed because he possessed certain abilities, say, and that made him special in his message true and vindicated by God as we've seen in these quotes. He trusted in something that scripture warns us not to trust in, and which is the supernatural signs and wonders. There's more scriptures in the Bible about warning you about these supernatural signs and wonders and how they would lead you astray and how the false prophets would even exhibit those. But he fully relied on his discernment as being his vindication. And over and over again, he could say it was never wrong and so forth.

But his discernment was, you know, never 100% vindicated as you've shown some examples of where he he actually was wrong in that. So there's instances on tape where it was wrong. And even though 99% seemed correct, even if he was doing this without assistance from the gimmicks, you know, the one or two that he got wrong, it blows the whole thing up shows that it's not trustworthy. And that leads us back to the scriptures. It has the only trustworthy source of truth, John. Not William Brandham's interpretation of scripture here. And the gimmicks, it's really a byproduct of the

agenda. There's always this gimmick. Signs, wonders, miracles. If you look to the old, you know, the old newspaper advertisements for these revival meetings, they would always advertise signs, wonders, miracles, come see, step right up, like it was a circus. And that was just a byproduct of the agenda that was there because there was always that underlying agenda in the Lateran movement that the Church has become apostate because God is not in control, therefore we need to come in, we as the apostles and prophets of this movement and fix it.

So there was always this agenda, there was always this gimmick, and if you understand what that agenda is, you understand why that they needed that as a distraction from their agenda. And it worked.

There were people who are distracted and they focus on the signs and wonders and miracles more than they do the doctrine. And sadly, because most people who are Christian today do not read the Bibles, they really didn't understand that what they're saying was not just extra biblical or slightly off.

In some cases like this, it was anti-biblical and to the level of extreme that it was against Jesus Himself, William Brannum preached against Jesus Himself. And yet all of these leaders who have proclaimed Brannum as God's general or whatever they claim in their history that leads to Brannumism, they're building on that foundation of somebody who was preaching against Jesus Christ.

That's what you have to understand, but there's so much more we could get into. I could probably go off an hour on that one sentence I just made, but thank you so much for doing this, John.

John, I've really enjoyed speaking about these things and, you know, each time I dig into the message, I find more things like this. And I hope that in the future episodes, we'll be able to get into more and more things and how they tie into this manifested sense of God and how that also ties into the NAR as you bring more and more of that out.

But we see that the misplacement of Scripture and the misinterpretation of Scripture can lead you off to a very dark place and that's what we need to be on guard against. So I look forward to, you know, getting together on future episodes and we'll see where it leads.

Well, I look forward to it. If you've enjoyed a show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-Brannum.org. For more about Roy Davis and William Brannum, you can read the persuasive preacher, the gifted prophet, and the noble politician.

And for more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.