Youth With A Mission Or Youth Without A Future?

Music Hello! Welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org And with me, I have my very special guest, Daniel Bright, nearly, former member of Y-Wam.

Daniel, it's good to have you on and to discuss how you were nearly a member of Y-Wam. There's so much... I was reading through email this morning before you got on just trying to familiarize myself with the story and...

Oh my gosh, so many things that we could talk about. I don't know that we can constrict it to one podcast, but I'm gonna try. Maybe if you could just start to introduce yourself and let everybody know a little bit about yourself.

Yeah, I am nearly in Y-Wam. I grew up in East London and I was in the family of six. We were homeschooled. Not for religious or ideological reasons. We just didn't really want to have to get out of bed before eight.

As we followed some American curriculum sunlight, we went to a local church of England church. It was a three-minute walk away. And so my upbringing was within that kind of triangle of being told that I was a liberal, Anglican who didn't believe in Calvinist and from the back just over there.

And then I was being told I was a cessationist because I've been believing in speaking terms by the hypercarismatics there. And then the third option was the Liberals who were saying I was conservative Calvinist.

So we had all those kind of three things going up. So I suppose I could write a book called It Called Being a Christian at church. Because that is where I went through a lot of polydetic defense. As that was the first so it was 20 or so years of my life.

And my links or almost links with the Y-Wam date to 2016. I emigrated to Norway with my wife is Norwegian. She was from a Lutheran background up north. And so from Anglicanism and Lutheranism we chose the local free Lutheran church.

Because the national Lutheran church in Norway is a bit of a advice role with a very large minus five modifiers of that results. For most of the local state Lutheran churches, we've got to remind I think to the situation in the U.S. for the Lutheran churches.

Not reliably biblical churches which you'd want to go to. Very quickly the church you went to which is a great church. We have them are listening. We don't have any issues with them. It was re-planted by an X-Y-Wammer in the early 80s.

The church we went to was about six or sorry the church we go to back in the early 80s was six or seven people left very faithful believers. And they said we're going to fold but we're going to dig out the basement in our church.

and then we can just ask anyone just come in and take it over with their mind so they reached out to local Y-Wam base and an X-Y-Wam has said, yeah, I'll rebrand it. So he and his family of five children very faithful to the other church. They gave it a go and since then it's been really good. So it's kind of an X-Y-Wam church, a church of Y-Wamers who have been doing it from the early 80s and funny enough this church has all the makings of an excellent cult podcast is the re-found of the church if you are. His children are still

there. One of them is on staff, one of them is married, one of the elders who was also there in the 80s. I think, oh, I can see where this is going, but actually turned all right. I still do one-to-one Bible studies with the son of the pastor who re-started the church in the 80s. So you can kind of auto-type the direct in this church when in the 80s and 90s. Well, he's exposed to a lot of people in the 90s went along to the Toronto blessing. They're quite involved in that. And a very particular Norwegian scandal involved

in the mid 2000s around their attitude to counselling, which was very untranslatable. I wasn't really sure what that was. So I came in on the scene in 2016 after the church, the local Y-Wam base, I say the church and the Y-Wam base there. The more it's Y-Wam the same. The Y-Wam base had planted a school, a very good school, a private school, just up the road. So pretty much all of the children in the church went to that school. Again, sounds a little bit cult-like. We'd actually worked out, all right, because they were in Norway, they're in a school in Norway. Norway is not very receptive ground for the

cult. When we got to 2016, everyone of my generation, among 37, 90% of people in my generation had all done Y-Wam, but they done it locally in Norway about 10, 15 years ago. But what I've seen happening now, this is a 90% Y-Wam church, I've seen now is that a lot of the people, a lot younger than me, 1920, are all going to Hawaii, co-nabates Hawaii, which I think several of you guests have spoken about. And I joke with my friends, it's astonishing how many young people nod calls to Hawaii. Yeah, I'm sure there are many better places

God could call you to. What do you think? Hawaii has been a strong tendency. So there they've been exposed to people who had gone to Bethel and a school of international school for Hogwarts ministry. I was thinking of Harry Potter theme sheet. Ten points to a method. That's what a lot of people were exposed to, are exposed to increasingly. There's two guys at my church who've got a podcast and a lot of their guests have been to the co-nabates Hawaii. So the situation in my church was X-Y-Wamers, who were going to the Y-Wam bases in Norway

that now are situating it a lot of the children of those X-Y-Wamers. going by default to the US and to a base in Montana. I think some else might have spoken about, which is a problem, because what tends to happen is, as I said to you in email, why I'm so young women after men, youth without any money, youth wanting a marriage.

And I have a deep respect for a 19-20-year-old. I'm essentially doing this is Christian dating for six months. Thumbs up from me. Do you DTS, you discipleship training school for six months? Immediately, I shouldn't really be dating anyway, but you do date, and you end up getting married.

And I've got a lot of respect for that, and they get out and they get on with their real lives, they get a job. Great. The negative side of what I'm seeing is really theological. I mean, the charismatic aside, there's not sort of mass fake healings going on in my church.

What is happening is that mainly men in their late 20s, early 30s, suddenly go, oh my goodness, hang on a second. I need to settle down. I need a job. You've talked about its loads in all the episodes, and they're not, they don't get pensions, contributions, they've got a more good time to go. There's no insurance, because they've been volunteering the whole time with Wyram. That's not a problem that's unique to Wyram, but Jehovah Witts has this going on as well. And so they hit sort of 35, and the content of their newsletters, their bread newsletters

changes from pray for us to go to Bhutan, to Ukraine, to do some math, and suddenly their newsletters can you help us get a car? Can you help us get a mortgage? And I'm like, hang on a second, you guys want what I have? You want the kind of middle-class lifestyle, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think that's the be all in the end of the Christian life, but when it's these guys who attend me, go in all in for Jesus, that send, you know, give everything to him. But when you're 35, what you really want is a mortgage, and suddenly God is calling you back to your home

country when your children approach 16-17, because they need to get their education sorted out. These are not bad things to do. And so a lot of people are in that sense, mature in from Wyram in Norway, but they just need to be clear at their sort of revival meetings, you know, the send. They say, go all in for Jesus when you're 22, I'm sure. You can do many funny things when you're 22.

But just be aware that the culture, the system, the strategy we have, am I church, which I don't criticize, is that you settle down, get a job, saying the middle-class lifestyle that you lied, you didn't want, you do want it when you're 35. So in terms of the general charismatic, charismatic mania, all of the William Brown stuff, there has been a fair amount of that as well, locally in my town. There was a church nearby us where a lot of people were at the time, as well.

There's five good churches in the town. They had someone saying, we're going to build this new building, we're going to buy it a pot of land, and it's going to be great. And a group of people in the church.

I don't think that's going to work very well, and it would take a miracle and act of God for this to go well. They said, oh, there's a miracle and act of God, no, no, we didn't say that was going to happen.

It would take a miracle for this to work. The building project didn't work, and that showed, in the dub, causing a lot of people to lose their mortgage is and their life savings for this failed building project.

So that was a situation with Philadelphia, in Harmer. There haven't been the rather sadly standard, large scale sect scandals going on in my hometown. It's largely been financial-related, and a lot of people just burning out and having given so much to the organisation in terms of money to don't have any.

And then reaching a thirties and just not really knowing what to do next with their life. Yeah, that's what I've experienced almost being in Y1. Well, I have to admit, I have a really heavy screening process.

When people send me information, I dive deeply, and the moment I hit the point where you're talking about Stewie, which half of our audience probably has no idea who is. It's kind of funny.

The moment I hit that, I'm like, okay, I got to have this guy on, so we can talk about Stewie. Crazy, crazy funny, but your humor in there, actually, it was the humor that I picked up on because that will resonate with the audience.

But the humor was so targeted and directed at things that really need to be talked about. Youth wanting a marriage. I think I've actually heard that phrase from somebody else, but the way that they push people to make relationships that are cohesive to the church, for me, I mean, this is going to happen in any church, right?

But if you do it in Hawaii, there's no way you're going to forget this memory. And if you just happen to take your mate in Hawaii, there's no way either one of you are going to forget this memory.

Now that is associated with the church, and you're creating this strategy where you're literally... It's like love bombing the people to keep them in, rather than an actual mission to help people... I mean, who you're going to help in Hawaii, right?

The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me. But here's what I have as a problem with that. I don't really have a problem with a church giving kids experience. I actually think that's a good thing.

So in that, I'll probably say that I'm in favor of YWAM to some extent. But you don't frame it as the mission, right? Like if I was a pastor, which I'm not, I never want to be.

But if I were to say, okay, church, we're going to take all of your kids, and we're going to take them to Hawaii, we're going to have fun, we're going to party, and we're going to have glory for God in the place, and children can see how to behave in a normal situation, and still be a believer in God.

And then we're going to come back and train for helping people to learn more about Jesus. That's a good thing. I see that as very healthy. But framing it as the mission, like the end of day's mission, we're going to have an end of day's mission and you're going to go party in Hawaii.

Just don't get it, man. I think some of your other guests talked about a psychological problem, which is when you've been beaten down by fasting and not sleeping enough and eating well, you end up being in a psychological state where you want to latch onto a motherly thought figure or a fatherly figure. That can be quite a risk. You might think that you've formed these bonds in Y-Wam and these eye control, high requirement groups, but what you're really doing is you'd have latched onto anyone, really. It's a bit of Stockholm syndrome there. When you've got well-fed

people who are in comfortable areas, that's also a challenge in the grocery store, I've learned a lot of bonds. Certainly, you're less likely to be carried up and swept into someone's ill-thought, ill-contained and the match revival. It was always one of my biggest fears growing up, the pastor at the front was going to start going, jumping in the air, saying, we're all going to go out and evangelise the local supermarket. It's all going on the streets now. I was always really afraid of that for some reason, rather thankfully, it was an irrational fear, but it passed a

lot of the judges. To get onto the stewly family guy line of thinking, this was originally about me framing it, talking about believing in the Holy Spirit and the gift of the Spirit, because often, as I mentioned earlier, when I was going up, people would say, you don't believe in this, you're a cessationist. Let me introduce you to the phrase which I've coined. I've never heard anyone else say it. It's called lessationism. It's not cessation, it's lessation, so I happen to speak six languages, French, French, German, Norwegian and Chinese, and a smattering in English. I didn't make up any of those languages, so when I'm meeting somebody who says,

do you speak in tongues? I often just respond to them in the language that I think they want to speak. Some people do speak French, and I say, I was speaking in tongues, as I could demonstrate. It wasn't because the disciples said, we're just going to babble now, and popcorn in the air, run around with the mouth open and see how much we catch. They were told by other people, oh wow, they're speaking my language, so the analogy I came up with is we're a steward from family guy saying, is this how it speaks in this episode? Is Seth McFarlane doing impression

of how British people speak? Whereas if you want to hear how someone in the UK speak, or listen to me, or some of you are other guests, and Patrick Stewart, and that's the real accent, but if someone had just been raised on Stewart from family guy, they think, please the real deal, you're not believing British accents, but he's not speaking the right way, and the reason that we know that he's not speaking true isn't because we've studied his accent, because if you know the real way people speak, like Patrick Stewart, myself and even the variance of Scottish and Welsh, you realise there's a huge wealth of diversity, and

I wouldn't need to make up any action from the British Biles. I would simply say, look, there it is. Listen to that. That's quite different to how Stevie speaks. But seeing the fake one now, that was the analogy I was going for with the gift of Holy Spirit, which always tends to be speaking in tongues.

That's the easiest one to kind of fake up on a stage. And if I remember, everything I've learned from you it starts with Param, then there's a guy who goes to Africa. And they all try and speak in the local language.

And they all turn, it turns out it's all making up. And then someone goes, oh, look, I've got a lot of Chinese news. It's all made up scribbles as well. So then the whole movement said, well, we'll move away from it being languages that people can understand to this language of angels.

I'm sure the angels are playing a sketching here. They say, well, we don't understand British Zeng either. Can you not just have a serious conversation instead of babbling? And so that was the analogy I was going for then.

And it also made me think of something else today. There was some people I know from the US who were having a Scottish day because they were proud of their Scottish heritage. And they were coming up with some, a few things which were correct.

But I've got a fairly good knowledge of Scotland, even more so I know we've less stick with Scotland. And I would say to them, well, just have me do things in Scotland and they say, we're making this up.

Well, I don't need to make any of it up because there's a huge wealth of reality. You don't need to make something up when it's true. I would say to them, have you heard of Ian Brue, not many people outside of Scotland have, do you know the German football rivalries in Glasgow?

You know, do you know there's been Gallic and Gallic? You know, all these things that can draw in the huge wealth of experience and Scotland, I wouldn't need to make anything up. And so that's what strikes me with the charismatic charismatic movement.

How much stuff is just, it's true. If this is your Holy Spirit, why is he less than what we read about in the New Testament? Lessationist, I'm not cessationist, I believe the God can move however he wants to.

But when we compare it to the modern non-sticks, which I agree to call them, I'd say to them, your Holy Spirit is less than what I would come to expect from someone who calls himself a charismatic.

Your Holy Spirit can't speak in tongues. Your Holy Spirit rarely heals. And as a get out clause, as evenly does seal, that's not a mark of the true salvation. It's about your, it's about the fruit of the Spirit.

And so yeah, that's what I've noticed mainly with all fake healing stuff as well. You know, one of the points that you brought up in the email, I had actually never thought of it that way.

And the funny part is, once you set it in your humorous way, I caught it because I pick up on the humor, right? I thought at that moment, you know, I've had other guests try to say this, but it really didn't click with me.

And hopefully it clicks with the audience, but you said something to the effect, and I'm going off of memory, but there's the economic reality of all in for God versus the real life. This is something that I knew.

I mean, that's what they're all talking about, right? You're all, in until you're not. And you're all in thinking, this is the end of the world mission. But then you're watching people graduate and grad leave and they go home and what happened to their life? They've not gone to college. They have no real work skills. They have some of them. I mean, I hate to say it, but it's like you're robbing that part of their life, the part that's most fundamental, robbing it from them and then throwing them on the street because what are they going to do when they get back

out? You're kind of stuck in this limbo between the real world and the church. And the church has, I hate to say it, but it feels like the church has failed you in that aspect because you're all in into the world is coming where we've got this end of the day's revival. Oh, and now you can go home.

Yeah, I argue up, I'm on the edge of the yearning for revival. We had only, we knew if they're well-traveled, that was very different. I was in the Welsh language and there were a couple of things between him and the zoo's street. They tried to reach out to him and he was like, well, okay, it's nice to hear from you, but I don't think I want to appear on your podcast more less. Nigel Evans worked on it, whatever it's called. Mitch the Welsh Revival, he didn't want anything to it, so they contacted him and he said, well, no thanks, but the Welsh Revival is quite sure what's

been like the Asperger Revival. There's no more revival, we'll finish with that. What I think, what it's talking about my email when you're saying all in for Jesus is that the local one I'm based now in Norway, I'm 20 minutes drive away from it, they're doing 24, 7 hour prayer, yikes, and that level of demand is, I don't think God wants that much, I've just been reading through Exodus with my prayer mates who's the son of the founder of the church on that, and we were struck by how God says in the tabernacle when they're constructing it. God actually says to them,

right, enough, we don't need any more donations, imagine if it's church leaders that at least do you like newsletters, no more dives, I have enough private jets. So that's what really struck us from reading Exodus. Wow, Moses is not acting like a modern enter gospel brandonite, he's in a Japanese saying, we've got enough gold, don't give us any more. So when God says giving enough, I think we used to do the power of the 10,000 talents and the 5,000 talents, but the issue of sufficiency, I think if I started a prayer room, it would have been called 31, 30 minutes a week,

30 minutes a day, like 30 minutes once a week, we wouldn't want to push it, it's the knowledge of the hair and the tortoise, right, I'm surrounded by people in their early 20s, and then they're mid 30s saying, we went all in for Jesus, you went to prayer, me too, went to everything, and then I'm left saying, great, you can help out a Sunday school with me. No, right, it's not really Hawaii, is it? So I'm the only person going on a church, Sunday school leaders conference for my church, for the ones to six, because it's not

Hawaii, is it? That's not everyone going all in in that regard. They were waving the shoes during the sand, which was the cool, didn't it? It was the cool with a certain Mike Bicker, which I'm sure we're familiar with, and he started off with it with a couple of other guys, and then that became the sand. I played a time stopping Todd White come to Norwik, so I said, this guy's aluminum stick, he's from Hogwarts, we don't want any of that, and as we were told it is a non-denominational thing, no friends can be involved. I said, Todd White

is right up there on the top corner of what can still be called Christian, and I would place myself in the middle, maybe a little bit more carvest, during the day of the week, but he went right out there, and I said, none of that, so this whole all-in thing just doesn't really, it doesn't play out in a kind of regular, just show up at church on a Sunday, maybe one Sunday a week, once only a month, if you can manage it, people are all going all in for Jesus when they're on their missions trip, and when they're 22, they're just

absent, and far from me having deep theological discussions would be to why we're not direct to why we're not. They're just not there that frequently at church, often on the base, because the bases, they're serving, or there's another worship team, or there's a Heidi Baker, I think she came a few years ago before COVID, which they didn't prophesy, and there's always something going on at the base. There's a lot of growth there, they've brought new land and property on the base, but my wife and I have said that we will have more to do with the Roman Catholic church, and the local white white base. I hope that never

said that again, and I'm in the process of dissuading people from there. Thank you, thank you very much for joining me. I wouldn't persuade them, I'd dissuade them, so think carefully about it, just be aware of your goal, and your 20s, and your 35s, you desperately want a mortgage, you'll want what I have, I don't want what I have. No, it's called youth with a mission, and when you're approaching 35, it's high time you're out. The local leader, he's written some great books yet, but there have been young men who've been promoting his book for free, and you're shifting copy for someone who's got his mortgage, he's got

his house, and ultimately, what's going on here? What are we all in for? Are we all in for Jesus, but then we realize, oh, hang on a second, I want to put everything in to get a deposit on my house, and I've received so many of those newsletters from people, including at the same stage life as me, I'm an immigrant, and they're Norwegian, and they're asking for help getting set up in Norway, I'm like, well, I haven't speak the language for 15 years ago, I can figure out how to live in this country better than they can, because

I haven't done what I want, and it's because I just, I just can't forget. and got a job and got involved to a certain extent in the local church, as much as I could.

And I guess that would be my vision, just get stuck in, do this Sunday school, help out and learn. I should team if you want to, but avoid large-scale meetings of the cent, the cent looks so, there's been so much focus on that.

I'm sure, I'm sure we listen to viewers who are aware of what the cent was and still is. It's just, I guess you could call it the grandson of what was happening, we're started in Kansas City.

I'm sure I'm edging into stuff you would have documented far better, because it's all much history. It started with the call, didn't it? And then it became the cent? Yeah, it did. You know, one of the things that I don't think people think through very carefully, which you're alluding to, but I'm going to actually go deeper there.

And I don't talk about this purposely, because I don't want people to, this is a large group of people who have been robbed in many ways of their money, and I don't want it to come across like I'm begging for money.

But my family had zero dollars in retirement whenever I was 43 years old. You almost can't come back from that, right? In fact, I don't know that I will. Every one of these people that get involved with this, and they escape at the point in which you're talking about, 30 years old, say, 30 years old, you're not even thinking that retirement is an issue for them.

But when you take away the ability to have a good salary job, suddenly you're thrown into where I was back at, I don't know, age 20, 25, when we first got married, all of my money, every spare dime that I had went towards just living.

That's it. We had really, really didn't have any extra. The thought of retirement wasn't even possible for another 10, 15 years. So now take these people, another 10, 15 years from that, they're actually getting a start on retirement later than I did whenever I left the call.

And I didn't leave a youth cult. So I look at this and I think, my gosh, man, I'm scrambling to try to make a way in which my family can be protected whenever I do retire or I'm not able to work.

Every single one of these people that escape from this, they all have the same issue that I have. And I have strong compassion for that. Yeah. I did too. I've done what I can to talk with young men who about my age, early to mid to late 30s who have just been in for a decade, and I'm just saying to me, I get out, I wish I always wish I could speak their language.

Maybe it's not, I've received a word from God, John, and the Lord of God to me is I still have an amount in, and there was a picture of a river, and I could lag it, I think.

I did have to speak to someone recently about the problems in Norway, I gave the picture of me feeling like I was a little less of a tin aluminium foil light amongst three And he's like, wow, that's really powerfully imagery.

It sounds, but all I meant to say to him was that I've really felt there's an absence here. And these people are missing out financially. And I think it says in the book of Proverbs, money answers everything.

No, money gives an answer to everything. And why often I've done that when people say, oh, we see that you don't eat out much in restaurants. I'd love to say it's an ideological reason.

It's just we don't have enough money for it. And so when people are coming out of Y-Wan, or still finding themselves in it, I'd say spiritful stuff aside. Let's all agree that what you're showing us, you want, is a house in them, is a house in a car and stability.

These are all good things. And can we preach that to these? Well, not necessarily not really youth, as I did say earlier, and I won't retract it. I think it's a good laugh if you want to do it for a gap year.

And you've saved up from money. People can spend the money in all sorts of funny things. But when you've been doing it for two or three years, people then move up on the track.

They do, you do your discipleship training school. You can lead in discipleships or 20 or 21. That's very unhealthy. And then when you're 22, you sort of do your third year, then you do your school of biblical studies, frank goodness.

But it's like, well, what did you do that in your first year? Because the content of the discipleship training school is very high-paced. Each of the speakers will say this is the most important fight.

This will be the most important talk of your life. And there's a lot of height there. And people go on their first mission. They're from there after six months. And they just want it straight evangelized everyone.

And I wouldn't want to knock that aspect of Christianity. It's all, you know, great, do it when you're 20. But yeah, how do you get into people that? And what you're describing with the difficulty of diving any money when you retire is that a lot of the newsletters from Y-Wam, that they're not reflecting a community, which is happy to go by with very little money.

Because if the X, Y-Wam are all buying a house for next and nothing and then just all doing it up, kind of like the army is really, and the men are nice. It's just like, okay, you've got this rebuild project.

It's got no door, no window. We'll all come along, we'll do some carpentry. And you bought this house for what most people buy a car. I would go, well, that's a really challenging way of living.

They're getting by with next to nothing. They're walking. They're not, though. Never went before, they've been detached with two cars. You know, as more than I have, I've only got one car. I cycle to work every day in the freezing cold.

So the standard the X, Y-Wam has once again to is, I have, and I'm just like, well, you've got to work for these things. And suddenly you're hoping that your parents, you're hoping that your parents haven't done Y-Wam.

Because you're hoping that they'll help you deposit. So it becomes a bit like, it isn't an extractive group. Or another way of putting it. It's a bit like the Klingons, really. You're just sort of raiding people.

And at some point, you need to get civilized, the sort of settle now, you know, learn the first order and so things, you need to build a civilization, you can't just raid off other people, and you can call it a prayer letter, but it is raiding, you're raiding people who are creating stuff.

And this, it's an infringement of, you might not have expected me to go here, it's an infringement of seventh century Christianity, because the monasteries, when the Roman Empire collapsed, they started, the monks said, right, what are we gonna do?

They started brewing beer and doing honey and all these things. So when the barbarians came and wanted to attack monasteries, why did they survive? Because they're like, well, we've been out to brew beer and make honey.

So the monks said, you could raid and pillage, or we could sell you these things. And they're like, well, okay, we do want, yeah, like all of the German beers, they're all named after monks, that's all the monks are doing.

So these monasteries, they weren't standing on praying. I'm sure there were a few monks who said, hey guys, you remember that praying thing we said, man, we've moved on from that, that's so prosaing.

You know, yeah, that whole concept, well, that's very fifth century. You've got to move with the times. It's all about the meat, it's about the beer and the cheese. You know what? You must've got these guys aren't monks at all.

Well, what they were showing, pagan Europe, was a way of living and working. After job, settle down. I'm sorry, we can't come out of these walls, because you'll just kill us, sorry. So we're going to settle down, you know, Clooney and all of these monks and monasteries and around Switzerland.

That was the beginning of European capitalism. These guys were working hard. They showed the rest of society. Look, going on ramping pillaging, that's not economically sustainable. You know, it's worse than it's in. It doesn't make economic sense.

You know, as Napoleon said, it's worse than a crime. It was a blunder. So to go around just killing and destroying or writing praying use letters, because you don't earn any money, that's just not sustainable in the long term.

So I used to joke about the local Y-1 base being a bit like a monastery. Well, sadly, it's not. The modern monasteries are very prayer-focused, which is not really, you're not going to make a living out of that.

But the monasteries kind of dissolve by the 15th century, 16th century, because they've shown society what it needed to be doing. In a sense, we've all become monks in a good way, and that we've all got a job, and I'm sure we do our hovering projects.

I do a little bit of yeast and sugar, you know, it's all this stuff, and we work for living. We don't go on pillaging. So I don't think the Y-1s are monks enough. They're ascetics, and they're on the piousists.

They do realize that they need to get a job and create economic benefit for their family. Doesn't it say in one testimonies or one Timothy that whoever wrote that said, I despised the person who doesn't work?

And I've got that, I put the Y-1s. They say, well, Paul didn't work. I really did, he was a ten-faker. I don't know, but he said something about the oxen, not being jackaled, and you know, should eat, while it's treading the corn.

So he was a ten-faker. You know, let's just stick with that one thing, say, um, to the, the power and the normality of work is, it's what they end up wanting, but I think I might, might be misremembering, but it might have been, I was listening to one of your guests or someone else that said that, uh, when you get to, uh, when you get to a certain point in life, you, you, you, you end up just wanting the things which you lied that you achieved, it is a good time that they do want to settle down, but, and I just sort of kind of wish that I would,

I wish that all of that would sit on the stage at the end, uh, and, and all these things that that's, that's what you end up wanting and these are not bad things to want.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brandham Historical Research's website, William-Brandham.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top, and as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-Brandham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. One of the things that really stood out to me as I was reading your email that, again, these are things that I should have really clicked with,

and I didn't until your humor picked me up, but youth with a mission. What does it make you think of when you think youth with a mission? It makes you think of the youth, right? They don't say late teenagers with a mission or early 20-year-old with a mission. Yet, every single person that I have spoken to, they tell me it's late teens, early 20s, my frame of reference, even after they said that, is still youth with a mission. And so it makes you wonder really about branding. What's the name all about branding? Or was there initial some gold that they were actually going to do the

youth? And in that case, you know, if the initial mission was a six-year-old, and we're going to take a six-year-old and convert the world, and then when they turn to a teenager, we're going to teach them how to go to college, how to get a job, how to do all these things. Actually, that's not that bad, but then you wonder what the mission is, right? And what is a six-year-old going to do? So I'm wondering was the intent to do something that was good and healthy, and then it kind of transition, when they realize, wait a minute, it's kind of like Parham sending all of the missionaries to

China who can't speak in tongues. We can't send six-year-olds out there because they're not going to do God's work. They're probably going to be playing with rocks or whatever. So I'm sitting here thinking, was it branding or did they really have the initial mission?

We grew up singing that Joel's Army song, I'm in the Lord's Army as well. And a lot of while I was do talk about raising kingdom children where they've wanted children to be co-participators in the mission field until at 7.15 and they've got to go back and get the further education, which is a good thing.

And there seems to be thank God, and I do thank God that he's merciful to why I'm in that regard. It's not a generational thing that's always passed on. It's not a given that your children could be why I'm in live with you on base.

What usually happens is the children go back to their home country and settle down, finish off high school and then maybe go to college and then do why when. So there's still a lot of new genes come into the organization.

It's not just kind of a generation thing going along, but I think when Lauren Kerning started or we came out of the Jesus revolution with a thingy for a risk being all of that,

I don't think Lauren, it's not his style to go in for those kind of allegations. And I met the guy once and well, I have no idea what's going on behind scenes. Maybe it's, you know, tends to happen or ask any aspersions on him now, but a lot of people said that they're not my people, right?

Is it, who knows? Don't know anything about Lauren Kerning, Ravi Zacharias, but what they were thinking about in why I was, I guess, yeah, people in their 20s with a mission, he's without any money, you're wanting him right, you were already married.

It's strange that that's the thing that they say in one, I mean, you're not supposed to date during those six months, but I'd say that's the time we probably should be dating again. Like if I can fund the rate, yeah, the woman wasn't adding, get out, run away, because then they come and stop you.

This isn't a dating thing. Of course, he's a dating thing. You know, it's one of the best dating things you can do, because when you meet a woman or a man during wire, you've got no money, and so they're attracted to you because you go to a character, and I'm like, that's the risk of that.

You know, if you're a 20-year-old bloke and you can marry a woman who's 20 as well, and she's attracted to you, you've got no money or anything, like, well, credit to you, man, you've done a pretty good job.

You've got no flashy cards to show off to her. I only do hope you have that in 15 years' time and you're not still in wire, but you know, if they nab the woman pretty early on in Viking Raid style, and say, you know, that's, for me, that's, you know, mission fulfilled.

Maybe that was the mission of wire, the Christian life isn't all that, all about getting married whatsoever, at all, but for them to say, you don't date while you're there, it's some, I don't make a huge amount of sense to me.

I would take over it. I'm trying to think to myself, what are they? I did mention it in Amazon. I've seen it a couple of months for the for the lulls. That was my central analogy. I think the all-in and, you know, the the gift of the spirit versus the underfront, the underfruit of the spirit as well. There's some great stuff from the local base coming out, but the direction is gone recently.

What I also wanted to mention is the without opening can of worms of the whole Charlie Kirk thing that's going on, but the external Americanization and the politicization of the Norwegian church is a risk. There's not such an issue locally. There are a few people at church who want to make your opinion about various things, but what tends to happen is that people come from a low Lutheran church background in Norway and confused fluency in English and a California accent with kind of theological reliability and, you know, even worse than being California. If someone's British and why, I mean, they're even higher up in the

chains. They sound sort of true because he's British. There's only one who's from the UK. They know Daniel's working class. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never been at a private school. And so outside of the, they don't, people would know, people would think, oh, he's really clever. But what happens in Europe particularly, not so much South America, is that when people hear that you're a native speaker, they have a lot more respect. But they think, you know what you're saying, because you've got more vocabulary than they have. And that's confusing fluency with actual knowledge of the subject. And it's being, I take the verse in Acts very seriously that when Paul spoke to the

crowd in Aramaic, they became silence. That's not saying that we should all learn Aramaic. It's simply that he spoke to them in the way that they could understand clearly. He didn't speak high convoluted Greek. We know that Peter's Greek was terrible. They spoke urgent street Greek and they spoke Aramaic when they could speak to people in the language they can. We had an example in a church thing that I was trying to do in another town along. And some people who were trying to help me, they went along to the way on basis of, oh, could you help us find a church? And because there was, there was a non Norwegian speaker there. They would spoke in English. And I was saying, I would bless you. There's a light will shine over this town. And, you know, pouring out mountains, seven

houses, all this stuff, hashtag nonsense. But if they'd said it in Norwegian, they'd have simply said, that's great. We don't have the resources to prioritize this logistically. Sorry. Wish you all the best. But because it was in English, they became very superficial. They were saying on the surface, they were superficial, but deep down they were found all the way around the surface, they found that deep down they were superficial. So what ends to happen is that young people go to Hawaii invariably sometimes Montana and pick up an Americanized form of Christianity. Some great things with American Christianity. The fact that there's no state church is good. That's a good thing.

there is no state action in the U.S. But the worst elements there are copying only come from randomism. And I've spoken with so many people recently from why I've never heard of William Brown, when I say, okay, have you heard of it?

You can list off the family trees, and I call them me doing it. They're like, oh yeah, we've heard of like, what did you heard of like that? You'd have heard of Brown and you've heard of a zoos of street.

You've heard of a zoos street, you've heard of it all. This is your history, I'm telling you. They really should know it. They've all got books about a zoos of street. And they want that to happen in Norway.

Not to mention Elem, and all of that. This is their family tree. I got in contact with the woman who was on with Sissell, who was on your show a couple last year. And as you can do in Norway, you can find anyone.

So I just, I just googled her and sent her a message. I'm gonna have to really chat about what's happening. There was an entry into Norway through from Brown and this and they actually came through Stavangerd, which was through Leverd's ward, Leverd's ward, which was a church out there.

So Brannemism has infected Norway in that regard. Not as strong as you'd think. It's actually come in through, I guess it would be almost like people learning about the US through New Brunswick. You'd be like, well, New Brunswick, check that's in Canada, right?

So people have come through, people have been exposed to Brannemism fourth hand through Y-Wam. It hasn't directly come through Kenneth Hagen. He what Kenneth Hagen was in Stavangerd, we know that. And you can track that line of thinking and all of that fizzled out by the 2000s thank goodness.

But the real exposure is through, yeah, the real exposure is through the, I guess you probably second the third dozens through Y-Wam. That's the Brannemism link in Norway. You know, I keep mentioning your email.

I'm going to say that you probably need to write a blog because you're way of explaining it, man. So I hit this road blog whenever I was talking with Jenny. There is some verbiage that in the United States right now is so highly politicized that if you mention it, they just shut you off.

They don't, they don't hear it. But the way that you said it, I'm going to say the same exact thing that she said, but I'm going to say it in your language. And maybe it will resonate with the listeners who have turned her off.

She mentioned a phrase that is politicized, but basically it means what you said. So you're from, you're, you have this language that is seen as highly respected among different cultures. And you're going out on these missions to people who, there's no better way to say it.

They were infected. All of these lands were infected by the Pentecostal movement, the not Pentecostalism in general. That, that's a gray area for me still. But this healing revival thing, it spread all over the globe.

You go to South America, they've already been infected. You go to South Africa, they've already been infected. Now send a person who speaks either British or American English immediately. You've got this respect that you would not, have already had.

Combine that with, oh, and they're telling us more about our heritage, our Pentecostal heritage that came from latarine, not even the original Pentecostal. So basically, they've already been infected, and now you're bringing a catalyst to that infection.

Jenny had a different word for it, which I'm not gonna use, but it means the same exact thing. You are over-privileged for no reason, and that's what these youth with emission camps is really what they are.

Which leads me to the other question, which it's like I'm defending them in this podcast. It's kind of funny, if you instead send them to Hawaii, you don't get that. So this may actually be a good thing, right?

And as far as Lauren Cunningham doing anything inappropriate, I've never ever heard that. I don't know if that's true or not, but if I see him transitioning away from, okay, we're sending these people, and they're getting this undue respect, and we can't penetrate the gospel to them, we're gonna instead go to Hawaii and have fun.

I kind of get that. Yeah, yeah, I see you mean, yeah, in my email, I talked about cultural superiority, which is definitely a thing in Europe, that everyone's white, but boring a few immigrants, but you do have national superiority in terms of, how long that country was under communism for, and there's no chance you're gonna get a Romanian-Bates leader in the UK.

Of course, you get a British-based leader in Romania, naturally, because they know what they're talking about, because they speak the original King James, but the Bible was written in as we all know. And I've, there's another tantrum, the King James, virtually the Bible, that's called the small confusion as well, with a lot of Christians.

So I think you have to address God in kind of 16th century British English, without realizing the revolution if you could call God the without, you can use the informal with God, which is revolutionary in the time.

So if we use that version of speaking to God, and you need to use really urgent street Greek, so the kind of missionaries we need, are people from Nigeria and Sri Lanka and Singapore, speak good in our English, but they don't, they don't speak it like me, they don't speak it like you, they don't speak it like anyone in Norway, they've got a very good usage of it, they can use really powerful idioms and analogies that we wouldn't think of, they're not using as many Latin words.

I'll just give you two examples of something I was saying to some Norwegians, was if I said we must persevere regardless of the circumstances. It's guys, isn't it? But if I said to you, don't give up, fry.

It's the same thing, but one of them is just trying to sound high and convoluted, and the other one is just urgent. Don't give up, try. That's how we need to be, that's how we need to be conveying the gospel.

And when we start filling it with Christianese and seasons, don't get me started on that phrase. I'll work as a guards, and that's up to me about seasons. There are how much loaded language in Christianese.

we're using and you know how much how much how much fluency of English are we confusing with the knowledge of the gospel and how it actually works. And on that point in almost every language in Europe they talk about their word to the gospel is ever and elium or ever and elium but words to that effect. So any in English we actually use the word gospel which comes from the ancients and like Saxon word good spell because I thought oh well this is really good is what is better than our witchcraft and wizardry because it actually works. It

was effective or maybe it's a play on words that they said oh the real good spell isn't about expelliarmus and nobles. It's actually the Jesus type of sins. That's the real gospel. That's the good spell. And so English in that sense won the word language by coming up with a term that just worked really well for us locally. And it's a really good point you're saying but hopefully we can silo the economically and culturally superior at least in their own eyes.

You can silo them off to Hawaii where they can all you know just be a bit sort of elicium in the clouds and the and the perceived culturally inferior people. It actually just get on with doing the church gospel work because they can they they're not going somewhere and confusing economic prowess or actually being thought being thought through. You know it's gone like when you meet if you have a 55 year old truck driver who's got no pension yeah sure he's going to look a lot richer to someone from Ukraine or Thailand but that's only comparatively and but but if you know someone from Thailand Ukraine who's

he's a well who's an accountant and a lawyer they might only earn as much as that truck driver. So if when you buy that in a church context when you've got 22 year old he goes and brought in says I don't have much money so I've only got five hundred dollars in the bank. Well you've got five hundred dollars and like you're rich. You go to some of these places and you must be really thought through because you've got so much money because the Lord has blessed you. Well only because where it's born it's got a thing to do with me and so if I went to

if I went to Rwanda I could find myself rubbing toes with a very faithful man from Sri Lanka in Singapore he's got nothing like the net worth I do but they've got they've got a huge store they've got wealth treasured up in heaven there's this worth far more than than what I have so that that's that that's what I've experienced here it really is the culture of superior I think though as people have gotten to know me that's a renal way and in my jokes like nobody's talking about all of the culture of superior I used to have a big British that's gone out the

window. Well there's such a language bear I was thinking as you were talking I I'm diabetic and whenever my blood sugar gets low I get shaky and I get hangry and there are times that my wife and I will clash and afterwards I realize that that wasn't me talking that was actually the diabetes I just had the thought as you were talking well what if I started doing that in King James English would I have more power over her because the mesmerization of the game, James. But the problem is, I would be doing the Stewie

version, not the Patrick Stewart version. The Stewie, not Patrick Stewart. Maybe that should be the show notes, you know, the Patrick Stewart, not Stewie, not Stewie, not Stewie, not Stewie. It's a Stewie, the decline of 20th century Christianity. It's about being genuine when you can, when you talk with people, and using their language they understand. The Bible is not afraid of translations, Matthew quotes it from the Greek translation, if the opposite is going to be the most Jewish writer of the gospel. We're not, we're not against the same things in different languages, just truth does translate. I've been a translator. So,

whenever you hear someone saying, oh, the gospel doesn't translate, I've translated it from English, from English, from English, like Norwegian to English. I like it. I could explain the gospel in German, pretty well in French and Spanish, and I could write it in Chinese. I'm not boasting. I didn't invent any of those languages, but it's quite simple to explain the gospel. And when you're wrapping it up in King James English, and this is when I'd recommend anyone listening to and watching to research false friends in King James' version of the Bible, because when it says in Galatians, we must be good in

our conversation, conversation in King James' thing that's meant behavior. So, there's lots of different examples in the King James English, which have came now. When you read the Bible in King James' English, there's a good time you won't know what it's saying.

Elijah says, how long will he halt between two mountains? And he's not saying, stop, halt you to mean walk slowly between two mountains, or seven mountains for that matter. So, when you communicate people, well, again, sort of going back to Modi point, what have you got to hide? Why are you trying to hide behind high language and convoluted language? Unless you're trying to sound smart, it's not going to be any more specific, but you say something in Latin, and it just means the same thing. You just can just talk about parts of the bone, and elbow still and elbow, even if you can say it in Latin. I heard of a doctor who

found herself in the Congo in the late 90s, and she was captured by the local rebels or whatever, and she's on the BBC, and she said that she escaped by pretending to be a holy priest woman who could speak Latin, and she was just reciting the names of pounds in the body items in Latin, because they've been used to hearing the Latin mass from Roman Catholicism, and I was just a woman from God because she's saying, incantations, this Christians, we don't believe in enchanting, we don't believe in singing about truth, we just believe in proclaiming a very simple gospel, a language that people understand,

not standing up and speaking in tongues or making up languages that angels don't understand and improv in any way. It's about clarity of the message, trigger word, that for me would be my gospel. I can explain the gospel in the week.

it's not very difficult, or the language isn't very difficult either, but the truth does translate. What I really struggled to translate is when I was explaining to someone that I'll hear through a fan of me and said, I was like, we've heard of the Seven Mountains Band-Aid and they said, what, the Seven Mountains voting system? No, well, Mandate means something else.

That's what it meant in Norwegian. I was just like, is this a voting system? Because I thought, what, mountains get a vote? No, Mandate means... And second, what did Mandate mean? And I was trying to re-translate these bizarre terms that meant something else to William Brown, and when he was banging on about it, and that means something else differently now. There is a guy in Norway who's actually translating all of Bannon's sermons, well, all of them are very scratching some of them out.

He says that with a tape recorder, and he's translating to Norwegian. And I'll be amused to hear how he translates some of the things, because the concepts there aren't, I just can't make a head not say with it, when I'm trying to translate them.

I've tried to explain the history from paramedics to through Brandon and Paul Kane and Mike Bickermann and all this stuff in the Black Horse. Are we saying we shouldn't ride? No, the Black Horse has all the sorts of significance, but I don't find myself doing that when I'm translating one Corinthians, you know, or the Psalms. And when I'm translating a church, as quickly as I'm speaking now, that's how quickly I'll translate from Norwegian to English. And again, not posting. I didn't invent the language, but truth can be translated, but I'm really struggling to explain the whole

Brandon missing stuff, John. Help me. I need to get the translation. Actually, I can explain this. I have a family member, so I know the gentleman who you're talking about. I've actually had indirect interactions with him. And here's the problem. The things that Brandon said, if you understand what he's saying in his era, they are horrendous. They are things that you just don't say. And especially in today's world, you just don't say these things.

So what do you do when you translate it? You either A, let's not translate this sermon, my brother, or you give it a completely different connotation. No, he didn't mean this racist thing. No, he wasn't insulting the racist. And it's like, I have a family member who used to, whenever there would be a Spanish speaking person in the room, as a joke, they'd lock up to him and say, it's so sick of this. Yeah, they would look scratching the head. What is it? I just spelled socks. And so it's that kind of translation, right? It doesn't mean the thing that you think it

means. That's what they're doing. It's just to play on a play on translations, unfortunately. But anyway, I could talk another two hours. We'll have to say that for another day. If you had advice for the people who are trapped in this world that we're talking about, what advice would you give them? I would say watch Lord of the Rings and read the Hobbit. Because Bilbo, after he's gone on his missions trip abroad, to the feats now. And the door...

say if him Bilbo has got all the gold, he's got all the, he's got one ring, but they said of Bilbo I think if people spent more time focusing on beer and singing and a house then the world will be a happier place and whatever these wiremas are searching for they're not they're not finding it and Frodo goes on his missions trip abroad to destroy the ring, but what's not in the Peter Daxon film you've got to read in the book is that he goes back to the chai and it's a bit of a disaster. Saramans destroyed his house

and he's destroyed the chai, but Frodo has come back from his missions trip and he goes back to his house and he's got four blokes with him, you know Frodo, Saram and Mary and Pippin, but they've been equipped because of their mission to get involved with their Sunday school, to get involved in their local church community so that the Lord of the Rings doesn't end with them being crowned in Minnes Tirith and you know Seven Mounted Mandate and Dominionism it actually it actually goes full circle they're going back to their Hobbit Hole that Sam would marry Rosie Cotton and settle down and Lord of the Rings ends with Sam

saying I'm home with his nine children I have him and he's married he's got a home he's got a children that's what Lord of the Rings was heading at that's what Tolkien said you want again we all want to be the Hobbits we want to live in the Shire, but no one thinks I would be arrogant raining in Minnes Tirith I've never heard anyone say that and so people want what the Bible is talking about illustrated I think the Shire is a picture of God's intention for humanity each man owning his own house working his own garden settling down getting wife will not get married

in Frodo's case he's perfectly fine billboarding him own and just getting involved as much as you can locally and helping people and if people think why doesn't he talk more about the Bible well people explain it much better than I do I'm very much in in to Lord of the Rings and that's that's what I go for every year so we we want to be Frodo rather than Arigorn is is what adults might be saying yeah and the NAR leaders they want to be the evil sorcerer Sauron yeah they do basically yeah they they um there's a detail that I'm just to end with there's an detail about Morgoth Sauron's

uh boss when when they were creating the world in Tolkien's um Legendarium they created the world through song but Melkor was just seeing the same song with one or two notes with very little variants and that was like oh gosh that's a rather terrifying detail so the next time you listen to Pence's lost or singing from Bethel just know how much variance there is in the song and if they're just beating the same mode 20 times do they sound more like Melkor or do they sound more like Beladriel now who side do you want to be on well and everything that you said about beer it

made me think Martin Luther said whoever drinks beer is quick to sleep and whoever sleeps long does not sin and whoever does not sin enters heaven therefore let us drink beer which leaves me in I agree I'm in this other category because I don't like beer so that's probably Why are you such a troublemaker?

But anyway, thank you so much for doing this. It's been really fun, John. Thanks. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information or to share your story, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at www.William-Brandom.org. For more about the dark side of the new Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

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