Where My Sorrow Started

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.org.

Together we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Branham and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals. Charles today's episode is one that I get an awful lot of questions about from many, many people.

They all want to know the story of Hope Branham. In fact, after we released the last podcast that just went out two weeks ago, I got two emails asking, are you going to do an episode on Hope Branham?

So I'm extremely excited about today's episode, and I know we have a lot of listeners that are interested to hear this one. I'm excited to get into this too. Our listeners probably don't know, but this is probably not going to be released until about four or five weeks from now, because we're that far ahead. We're over a month ahead in recording these things.

So we're not even directly responding to a lot of the stuff that people have said. We're just releasing these as we've recorded them. But yeah, I'm looking forward to talking about Hope. Because in this episode, we're going to talk about William Branham's marriage to his first wife, Hope Branham Brumback.

You're right, John. It's a huge thing. It's a major part of William Branham's life story. And in the official version, it plays a key role in explaining his conversion from being a Baptist to Pentecostalism.

And as we dive into this, I definitely think we should try and first explain the official version, maybe a William Branham's life story, that way people can compare it to what we're going to talk about.

But you know what's difficult, John. So last night, I sat down trying to figure out what the official version was. And so this is going to be funny. I couldn't, I couldn't figure out what the official version was because when I went even to the official, you know, in a man sent from God, and in supernatural, the life of William Branham and God's generals, the details of this story are substantially different just across the official.

The moon. official what I would what I looked to is the official versions of these things. So there's actually and then of course what he says on tape again differs. So I believe there's roughly six to seven substantially different versions of this part of his life. Yeah. I didn't realize that it was this case with hope and now I've now you've got me giving me some homework. I'm going to have to go back and read those myself, but I've noticed in other very, very critical fundamental stories, fundamental parts of his life story, they differ across, you know, different authors and historians

because one author will find a life story cassette tape of William Brandham or transcript. And then they'll write about it, not realizing that William Brandham himself gave a different version on a different recording. Exactly. You know the his biographies biographers assume that it is you know consistent and they just will pick one and run with it or one source and not realize there's a and so you get all these different iterations of his life story. And so I what I decided I would do is just tell the version of the life story that I always believed or I

had always thought going back to the tape that I had listened to as a young person and kind of use that. But again, I struggle because there there are versions of this of a story where he's fairly close. Maybe he's 80% accurate. And then there's other versions where he is way, way, way from the truth. So so the official version that I'll say the official version that I in my head is the official version. Yeah. I'll share that one. How about that? I think that's all you can do with these stories. I try now time. I actually tried to make a video of what was the

authentic life story and just kind of take bits and pieces from each one of the varying versions. But there's so far different that you can literally say he did anything and it's still going to come out to one version of his stage persona is going to have said this that or the other.

Exactly. There's there's certain details that get right in different ones. But then there's certain things that are consistently wrong in every single story. And I think those things that are consistently wrong are what we're going to try and focus on today. But the the official version goes more or less like this. So share it. So William Brown, I'm going to hope Brumback they meet.

Where they meet varies from story to story. They meet they get married in 1934. I believe they get married in let's see they get married in June in 1934. And they end up you know having a home together they talk about you know their poverty and having to rent even their furniture and arm chair and things like that. So it was a poor life. They have two children. They have a son and a daughter. Then things are going really well.

William Brannum's got the Brannum tabernacle going on. He's taken some trips. He goes out on a great fishing trip. While he's on this fishing trip, he stumbles onto Pentecostals for the first time. The Pentecostals, he realizes they got something he don't.

And somehow at this big Pentecostal convention that he gets stumbled onto, he ends up invited to preach on the platform. He goes up, he preaches. When it's all done, they invite him to go tour for him, for the Pentecostals as an evangelist.

And he comes back home and he's telling his family about this great experience he had discovering Pentecostals. His mother-in-law says the Pentecostals are holy rollers, bad guys, bad people stay away from them. He listens to her and decides not to become a Pentecostal and not go with the Pentecostals to tour or to be an evangelist among them.

So then disaster strikes. God brings his wrath on William Brannum and the 1937 flood comes. Various people in William Brannum's family die and most notably his wife hope is killed by the events of the flood and then his daughter is also killed by the events of the flood all because he refused to become a Pentecostal.

And so that's more or less the standard version. There's some slight variations in that depending on which one you listen to. But that's pretty close. Do I think what everyone would agree is the official version of the story?

Yeah, I think I would agree. That's how it kind of formed in my mind. When somebody's raised in this sort of thing, you know, whenever there's conflicting stories your mind automatically reconciles the differences and the ones that you hear most frequently are usually the ones that stick.

So the details that he gives incorrectly, interestingly, he mentions more frequently. So oddly, those are the ones that stuck in most of the minds of the people. Yeah. And you know, it's even the official version of this or what I just said, you know, that is a really tragic story, John, isn't it?

I mean, it's sad. William Brannum told this story many, many, many, many times. And like I said, it's the key catalyst about him converting or joining the Pentecostals. And it gave him a really strong emotional connection to his audiences this story.

The story really, it's more than just his, it's more than just his introduction to Pentecostalism. It forms a key part of the emotional connection that message believers have to William Brannum, I believe this is true.

Absolutely. And it's a key way that he connected with his audiences in the Healing Revival period. And the problem is, the problem is, John, the majority of that story is not true. I was really surprised when I found how much of it wasn't true and for an unusual reason because like you said, it was very emotionally connected. I remember sitting down and watching, you know, the videos that we have of William Branum and then going listening to the life story cassette tapes and crying my eyes out at this story because it's a sad story but when I found the real story because I was emotionally connected and believing that

William Branum was emotionally connected to hope himself. I believe that he, you know, suffered and felt these things. When I learned that it wasn't true and that the real story itself was actually more painful than the fictional version that he gave, it made me realize that psychologically there's something wrong. There's something he's not telling us and I think I want to explore that a bit in this episode. If you suffered through something this tragic as the actual tragedy that happened, you're not going to invent another tragedy that is less tragic than the real one. You know what I mean?

I agree. And you know, I know people who I have known and been acquainted with people who were with William Branum through these events and have told what his mental state was like through that. So yeah, I mean we could certainly talk about that some John as we move on. I do think that it is something worth touching on for sure. Yeah, so William Branum, you know, I was first introduced to this story that it wasn't true through the Barones research on searching for vindication. They had published an article and the title of their article on this was a play on

words. Whenever William Branum told about the story of his wife's death and how he refused to become a Pentecostal, he would say, and their friends is where my sorrow started. And the Barones articles when they discovered this story was not true, the title of their article was and their friends is where my sorrow started. And I don't know about you John, but the same thing is true for me. You know, when when when I found these things out like it tore me to pieces. It was painful.

It is painful as somebody who loved the message of someone who loved William Branum as someone who loved it is painful to find out that he deceived us even at this level. Their friends is where my sorrow started. And it's one of the things when I realized it wasn't true. That was bad. But learning that this pain, this sorrow, this emotional connection that we had to William Branum was actually part of our religion. That's what made me realize that this isn't just a religion. This isn't just people pointing, you know, other people to Christ. This is a cult of

personality. We were connected to William Branum's person. That's very true John, and as you leave the message and you get further away, you come to realize that our faith, a large part of what we believed, even where I come from, we would say this wasn't true.

We'd say, well, we're not the Brannamites. It's not true about us, but the reality is a large part of what we believe is entirely based on purely trusting the words of William Brannam. And so, anyways, I guess we can kind of get into talking about the official version of things or the true version of things.

So, William Brannam, where did he meet Hope Brannam back? How did that happen, and John, I'll let you tell, where did William Brannam meet Hope Brannam back at? Well, that's the surprising part, because if you study the official versions of a story, William Brannam was not a Pentecostal.

He had never heard of Pentecostalism. He stumbled onto it by accident on what he called a fishing trip. And yet, the truth is, he met Hope Brannam back in Roy Davis' Pentecostal Church. And Davis himself confirms that this is a Pentecostal church.

And Charles has the newspaper article on display if you're watching the YouTube version of this, but it reads, an old-time testimony meeting preceding the sermon, Hope Brannam back will lead the devotional meeting. So she was actually speaking, teaching, preaching in this church.

She was an elder of authority in this church. Yes, Hope was a, appears to have been a female preacher in Roy Davis' church. And it appears that William Brannam, maybe he knew her before, they were at Roy Davis' church, but they certainly started courting and engaging in their relationship that would lead to marriage at Roy Davis' church.

So they were both in leadership positions together at Roy Davis' Jeffersonville and his Louisville church too, I mean, from what I can tell. And I think it's important to point out, because people who weren't in this type of cult of personality are familiar with women speaking in churches.

In the cult churches that we were a part of, the women were basically silenced. They had no voice in the church. But even churches in mainstream Christianity that do not believe in women preachers, they still let the women play an active role in the church.

The women are very active in the church and have a voice. So we need to separate this from, for those people, seeing Hope's name here, it's not unusual. Maybe she was just speaking. But William Brannam himself says that Roy Davis was appointing women into leading roles and preaching roles in the church.

He said that's why he left. the church. Right. And the extent to which women are not permitted to do things like that in message churches. I don't know about your message church, John, but in our message churches, women were not even permitted to pray publicly, right? They couldn't lead prayer. They could, you know, there was, they were curtailed in any sort of spiritual leadership role at all, you know. And so, so hope, hope is definitely what we would in the message have called a woman preacher, which to us would be an abomination. Right. And you're right. I've, like I said,

I've been in churches from Arizona to South Carolina and everywhere in between. There are actually churches that will not in, there are churches in the message sect that will not let women gather by themselves without a man present. It's, it's a big deal. Yeah. And obviously the, the rules around that vary from sect to sect, but right. There is no sect in which what hope Brambeck was doing at Roy Davis's church would, would, would not, would be viewed as acceptable.

It would be viewed as the height of sin and abomination. Right. In any part of the message that I know of. Right. And what was the date of that article, Charles, for the listeners? So this is a, I think February 1933. Right. And this is not, this is of course, this is just one of multiple articles where, where she is, you know, doing these things at the church. So there's a series of Roy Davis ran an article, you know, every single week or multiple times a week in the newspaper saying what's going on at his church. And she has mentioned multiple times through those articles

that she's in a leadership role, she's in a speaking role. She even led services in, in some of these articles that we can find. So that's just one sample article there that we pulled out.

That's a very key detail. And I've, I've learned, unfortunately, that there are a lot of times we have to tell the people that are in the message sacked what they were supposed to believe so that they understand why they can't believe it because it wasn't true. Believe it or not, there are people that literally have no idea that it's significant. But her death, according to William Brannum, was because he rejected the Pentecostal call. He says, I've listened to the words of my mother-in-law, hopes mother, and she would not let hope, let me take hope around these Pentecostal people,

he called them Holy Rollers. And so therefore God killed her and my daughter in the 1937 flood. But here in the newspaper, we have Hope Brumback, hope, before she's actually married William Brannum in the Pentecostal church. You're exactly right, John. You know, hope, hope was a Pentecostal. She wasn't supposed to be a Pentecostal. They met in the Pentecostal church. And it, as we go through Through this, these facts just build up that there's something seriously, seriously wrong with the way William Brenham told this story.

So they were Pentecostal, William Brenham, and Hope were Pentecostals from the day that they met. And so another thing that is not right in his early tellings of the stories is he always told, William Brenham always gave this elaborate, and again, it's a heart-touching emotional connecting story about how he asked Hope to marry him, right?

Oh, yes. Right. And he walks you through this. I mean, in your mind, you just live in these stories with him, right? And you're right. And again, people might say it don't matter too much.

And I agree, it don't matter too much. But again, the story of even his proposal to Hope can't be true, right? He is in his story. He goes to Hope's home, his mom, and her mom and her dad are there.

And he knocks on the door, and the mom invites him in. And then he goes in the back and he talks to the dad. And finally, ask the dad to marry Hope, right? And it's a really elaborate story of how the dad says, you know, puts his hand on him.

And I know you're not the richest boy in the world, but you take my daughter. And I'd rather you have her than anybody. And it's a really touching story, right? Yeah. But what's the problem with that story, John?

There's a huge problem with it. You know, when I started researching, one of the things I learned about the newspapers is that if you were a key figure in the city, they reported about you very often.

And Mr. Brumback was a key figure in Jeffersonville. And what this got really interesting is when the Ku Klux Klan headquarters was in Jeffersonville, I found one article you can actually see on my website that said Mr. Brumback had the key.

It was in the spife building in downtown, the spife building no longer exists. It burned down. But before it burned, there was a Klan headquarters at the top of the building. And Mr. Brumback had the key to that building.

And so I got curious about Brumback. And I started researching and low and behold, this beautiful family home, like it was like a leave it to beaver type prime that William Brown described, did not exist.

He was hopes mother was divorced from Mr. Brumback before they even met Mr. Brumback, according to the newspaper articles I found it looked like he was probably a very abusive husband. And they had separated, I think, after she got injured or something happened.

Right. And according hopes father had actually already remarried and had moved to Fort Wayne, Indiana. Right. He was, you know, by the time that William Brumback starts courting and asked to marry her. So, so yeah, the hopes parents were divorced.

Her father was living hundreds of miles away from Jeffersonville with another wife, a new wife, but William Brannum's story is, you know, knock on the door and the wife, the mom lets me in and there's the dad in the back room and there's no way that the story that he tells is true again.

Yeah. There's no way that happened. He totally had to have fabricated, you know, even his proposal story to hope. And you say it's, you say it's unimportant and I agree, something like this, it is a trivial detail.

But if you remember, it's the collection of details that lead to the cult of personality. Because they live this, leave it to bever style life and because he asked for the hand and marriage and all of this stuff, you know, he's building up the story as to why they convinced him not to join Pentecostalism, which also wasn't true.

But this is another key fact that he misrepresented the truth to create the bigger fictional story. Right. Right. And so they get married, you know, however it comes about, I mean, who knows if he after dad or not in real life.

So they get married, they're Pentecostals from the time they're married and they go on and they have their two children, they're their oldest child and their youngest child. So they're oldest child. I know we wanted to just note that there is a discrepancy in the birth date for their oldest child.

So they got married in June, I believe, yeah, in June, 1934 is when they got married. And so their first child, there's two different birth dates. Here is a marriage, the marriage application for the first child.

So that's for the radio or for the podcast audio only, we're looking at a marriage certificate for William Paul Brannum, known as Billy Paul. And the date has a huge discrepancy whenever you think about the timeline of the marriage.

Yeah. So in this, you know, on this government document, their first child, the date of birth is September 13, 1934. So about, you know, about four months after they're married. But then, of course, there's other records and then the official biographies put the birth date in September 13, 1935, so, you know, about 16, 17 months after they're married.

So there's that discrepancy in his birth date. Then we, then his other, their other daughter, she was born in, I think, October in 1936. So that's kind of the dates we have for when they're, when their children were born.

I remember when I came across the marriage license for the oldest son, Billy Paul Brannum. And, you know, four months, that's not long. enough. That would actually put the conception before marriage. And I honestly thought because the earlier you go back in time, usually those are the more accurate records whenever even William Brown's government records, the dates change. So you always go back to the earlier ones and they seem to be more truthful. So I thought that was probably true, but I've actually changed my opinion on that. It looks very much like his oldest son was not truthful

on his own marriage license. And in that same core house, you can find some other very interesting details about that, which we won't get into in this episode. Right. And I share your opinion as well on that, John. I think that the 1935 birthday is probably the true one for the son.

I think so. And for some reason, he put 1934 on this application, which yeah, we're not going to talk about. So I guess kind of moving on. So these eyewitnesses, so I'm sorry, we talked about the birthdays, we talked about the children. So while all this is going on, his family is growing, he's the pastor of his new church. We know, we know by, and we know for sure, by the middle and end of 1934, he's at least got his tent that he's preaching in on Pratt Street. And you know, within the next year that they actually build the actual tabernacle building or so.

So he's got his church things are progressing, you know, a church is coming together for him. And in those years, he talks about, you know, that fishing trip he went on where he on his way home from this fishing trip, he just bumps into this Pentecostal revival and decides to just pull in and check it out. And I just happen to stumble onto the biggest key moment in Pentecostal history at the key location where this event happened.

I just happen to stumble onto it, he says. And get invited to preach at it. Exactly. Okay. So here's the thing, we know again that William Brannum's story there, you know, can't, can't really be right, but maybe what, why don't we tell what was happening at Misha Walker, right? I mean, William Brannum, we know William Brannum was actually touring on healing revivals through this period is what's really going on.

And but something important is happening at Misha Walker. And there's a historian, a Pentecostal historian named Bernie Wade. He's one, I know that we've referenced quite a bit that published some really good documents and talks about the things that was happening at Misha Walker.

And I'll let you maybe explain that, John. Yeah, I've actually spoken with Mr. Wade. Because I was, I was curious, he has a, he's a Pentecostal historian. He has a lot of history. He has a book coming out later this year on Charles Parum, which he's very pro Charles Parum.

And I am very not, but I'm actually going to recommend that people read this book because there's a lot of history that helps you understand our research better. And He's he's openly honest about it, you know, I believe Mr. Wade's a Pentecostal minister too is any an apostolic Pentecostal minister I believe I believe he's actually a bishop in the Pentecostal religion, but yeah, so I And this goes back to the psychological issues that I'm described earlier You know if you were a part of the actual Tragedy that happened that William Brannum would have actually been through

You would not have to make up this other story But yet this is one example where I found that William Brannum Was not really so much involved in Hope's life as he could have been And so there's this question that forms in my mind Is there some guilt associated with him not being with her while she was You know very very ill which we'll get into in a bit But William Brannum was touring as a faith healing evangelist At this meeting Mr. Wade has He's actually in contact with people who were in this meeting and they remember William Brannum pulling up in one of those old

You know the Holy Rollers they called them because they they were rolling down the streets and they had this loud megaphone on top of their Truck and they they would preach and you you could hear them sermon blasting out the window And and there's still even some people like that in the world of Day John like they go to Walmart And they got the thing on top and everybody in the park and I can hear their sermon. Yeah Yeah, I'll try to throw some pictures up on the video if I can remember it But um there are other key fate even my grandfather had one of these Holy Rollers trucks

They they were rolling basically rolling preaching on wheels evangelism William Brannum rolled into this mishawaka meeting In his preaching truck so when he's talking about the mishawasha Mishawaka trip He calls it a fishing trip. He said I I needed a vacation So I went on a vacation and I left hope back at home Which raises all kinds of red flags. They just got married, right?

Why is he leaving her home? Well, no, he was out on you know in his Ministry touring and remember he's still kind of Evading his what appears to be a criminal past So he's like hiding on the road This this is this is two to three months after they're married that this happens. Yeah exactly It's right there and and and didn't the eyewitnesses also say John that

His truck had had advertisements painted on the side of it advertising his healing ministry even yeah Well, that's how these holy roller trucks were they were basically and all and is basically a church on wheels and To get to people to come listen you had to have an advertisement on the side of it So that's you know literally how it worked But this was a key a very fundamental meeting in pentecostalism Because the pentecostal faith had many, many different divisions.

There were the Pentecostals of the world, the Pentecostals of Jesus Christ, which were the oneness before William Brannum, right? So many different sects, and they were looking to how best to unify Pentecostalism, bring everybody together.

So this was not a meeting where they would let just anyone speak. They would only let the leaders representing each sect get up and speak. William Brannum was in a new sect of Pentecostalism, called the Pentecostal Baptist Church of God, which was a Pentecostal sect that was also one of these many desperate groups.

So they were literally speaking to advocate for their vote, Yeh, or Nay, and how they would merge. Right, that's really well put together, because early Pentecostalism was, was not really organized to begin with.

They were just of many different, many different independent churches. And like you said, they started to conglomerate. And there started to be these regional conglomerations of Pentecostal churches. And this conference is an attempt to merge some of these conglomerate churches together into a larger national, international Pentecostal denomination.

Right. And it appears from everything we know, from the witnesses, from what we can read that William Brannum was there actually representing Roy Davis' Pentecostal Baptist Church of God as a party in these merger talks, is actually what was going on at this convention.

Which would make sense, right? Because Indiana was the home of G.T. Haywood, the black Pentecostal. Basically, the reason why one is Pentecostalism or baptism in Jesus' name, Pentecostalism exists. And they were a growing threat to the clan because their meetings were very racially integrated.

Whereas the clan wanted to separate the blacks and the whites in their different churches. So Roy Davis would have had an agenda to putting William Brannum into this meeting. There was a purpose behind him being there.

Right. And this meeting, the groups that came out of it still exist today, right? So what was happening there represents one of the main streams of Pentecostal movement at the time and Pentecostal thought and Pentecostal organization that continued down to the present day.

So William Brannum's there, that really is the truth of what he was there. He didn't just stumble onto it by accident. They didn't just ask him to preach randomly like they drew his name out of a hat or something.

So the whole aspect of those stories that he told us, again, it is just not true. And so the next point, John, is that, and I'm sure our listeners have already clued in on this.

William Brannum was not a Baptist. Right. William Brannum was a Pentecostal, and you know, all through his stories. Like, this is a incredibly important element of his stories. He was a Baptist up until this event, and he continued to be a Baptist, honestly, up until, you know, after Hope died, and then he decided he needed to become Pentecostal.

And every, this is a detail that's in all of his biographies, there's no point in which he tells this the correct way. You know, he's always a Pentecostal in every written piece in every testimony on tape.

He's always a Baptist, always a Baptist, always a Baptist. Well, and it has to be, if you think about people who aren't familiar with the Pentecostal faith, there has to be what's called the Pentecostal experience, and you have to have this key moment that brings you into this faith, right?

So his key moment, his alleged Pentecostal experience was that God killed his wife and daughter because he refused to become a Pentecostal. And then he realized that the Holy Rollers, as he called them, were, you know, God's people, they had something he did not have.

And so this moment in which Hope and his daughter, Sharon Rose, were smitten by God, you know, killed in the flood, according to his story, becomes the key moment in which his religion, basically what people call the message today, the key moment in which created his ministry to become Pentecostal.

Right. And I, let me just go through some of the evidence, you know, so that way our people that are listening can just, you know, we're not crazy. William Brandham was, was, was Pentecostal from his conversion.

And just, just like we shared the story of him meeting, Hope Brumbeck, I mean, where did he meet her at? The first Pentecostal? First Pentecostal Baptist Church. Baptist Church, right? So, and we can go through the, I didn't print them.

I should have, I should have got some out, but maybe you can put them up on the screen. The Roy Davis ran these regular advertisements. We know exactly what he was preaching in his church, exactly what they was doing.

They, they practiced speaking in tongues. Jesus named baptism. They preached Holy Ghost religion. They believed divine healing. Roy, Roy Davis's Pentecostal Baptist Church was thoroughly oneness Pentecostal, thoroughly oneness Pentecostal in their teachings and doctrines.

And even before its formation, whenever they were holding the revivals that led to the establishment of this church in Jeffersonville, they were holding healing meetings. William Brannum pretends, you know, in his life stories that his introduction to faith healing came much later, but actually, sect was a healing sect. Right. And and William Brannum, you know, when he opened his when he opened his church, like here's the deed, the deed they registered their church officially as the Billy Brannum, Pentecostal Tabernacle. Right. So he's he's billing himself as a Pentecostal when he opens the church. And even from the very first one point, the deed, the date on the deed is before

the 1937 flood. So even that element of the story of her death, she was in a Pentecostal church that was the Billy Brannum Pentecostal church. Right. He was supposed to be a Baptist, but it was a Pentecostal church. And here is, here is the, you know, again, the oldest newspaper article we are aware of about the Brannum Tabernacle. This is from August 15, 1935. And it's called the Pentecostal Tabernacle from the earliest newspaper articles that when they ran their advertisements for their church. And again, I just got a smattering. They ran dozens and dozens. They ran regular

articles in the newspaper. And all through the years, it was the Pentecostal Tabernacle, all the way up through the thirties. It was the Pentecostal Tabernacle. Like it. And here is, I'm going to put up the very oldest one. So this newspaper article is from April 30, 1943, they're still called the Pentecostal Tabernacle in 1943. Right. And so they dropped Pentecostal from the name of the church somewhere in the mid to early 1940s. So it was actually 1945. And there was the, that was when the Reverend Robert Dordy came to the Jeffersonville as the first actual Brannum Tabernacle mention in the newspapers that I've identified. And it coincides

with his reinvention of his stage persona in the pamphlet. I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, which also talks about Dordy. Right. And that is right at the time that he is starting to kick off his big national fame. Right. So he is right in the year and year and a half before he's suddenly going out and getting national fame. He is renamed his church. He's taken the Pentecostal out of the name. And he is, he is, I guess, trying to cover up the evidence so that when he goes out and tells these new versions of the life story that, you know, it's not going to be obvious

that he's making this stuff up. But yeah, he, they were Pentecostals all along. I mean, even, even will, even Sister Brannum, Sister Hope Brannum, I'll call her Sister Hope Brannum. Maybe I'll see her in heaven. I hope. Praise the Lord. She, I love people, John. I don't, I don't damn nobody to hell. I'm sure they're all, you know, I believe God's got a whole lot of grace for, for people. She's, she's a nice lady. She had nice, you know, a nice daughter and all this.

And this is a sad story, you know, even though the real version is a sad story. I don't know why I just didn't tell you. the real version, but this is her obituary. This is the obituary of hope, random. And again, the story is God let them die because they wouldn't be Pentecostals, but her funeral is at the Pentecostal Tabernacle.

Yes. And where her husband is pastor of it even says her husband is pastor of the Pentecostal Tabernacle in her obituary. And even the date on that obituary is key because remember in his versions of the story, there's this flood of the Ohio River. He's in his boat and he's trying so hard to get to her by boat and can't get to the hospital by boat. And finally, she he arrives during this flood and she's in there dying and he mentions the nurse and there's four different nurses for four different names he gives to this nurse depending on which story.

But the date on that obituary is what month Charles? The date on so this is July July 1937. Long after the flood had subsided. Exactly. Exactly. I would definitely want to dive into that some more.

But this this aspect, you know, why the Pentecostal part? Why did William Branham make up the story that he was not a Pentecostal until after Hope died? And I'm not I don't think I don't think, you know, we can say definitively that we know the answer but it's something we could speculate at a little bit. Why did William Branham make up the story that he he didn't want to be around the Holy Rollers that he listened to his mother-in-law and wouldn't go around them when the truth was they were Pentecostals from day one? Why did he why did he do that?

You know, I've asked myself that question a lot of times and again we'll never know the true answer but whenever somebody is suffering guilt for having done something wrong and wasn't really part of what original event that happened. So they have to event and they have to invent a new event for which to place the guilt. So it looks very much like this invention of the story that he created for his stage persona is where he placed his guilt but then he doesn't even present himself as you know feeling the guilty. He blames it on God. He says God killed her because

I listened to the mother-in-law. He deflects the guilt of joining the church to the mother-in-law the you know his not being with death with her during her death to the flood. Every single portion of the story that he should be guilty for he actually deflects the guilt to somewhere else if you know what I mean. Yeah. So along that line maybe as we talk about the true circumstances of her death that that maybe might open some open some understanding as well as to how how he could be so troubled about the circumstances of her death, because the true circumstances are

is that she did not actually die during the flood, like he told us, right? That's not really what happened. He misled us about the circumstances of her death even, and I have here Hope Brannum's death certificate that you can get from the state in Indiana.

If people want to go look at these things themselves, I know I had to look at this for quite a while and think about it, John, when I first saw this, because it's a pretty damning document.

This document says that Hope contracted pulmonary tuberculosis in January 1936. Yeah, so that would have been before Sharon Rose was even conceived. She was literally dying of tuberculosis before the daughter's conception. Yeah, she had tuberculosis before Sharon Rose was conceived. Yeah, so here she is dying of pulmonary tuberculosis. They get pregnant with their second child, who is born in, I believe she's born in October. Let me look here. She's born October 27th, so the end of October 1936, roughly 10 months after she's diagnosed with tuberculosis.

And so there's that. And her date of death is also on here, John. Like we talked about her obituary, her date of death on here is July 21, 1937, as well. And so that also presents a problem because the flood was over in January 1937. So she had tuberculosis over a year before the flood started and she died about six months after the flood was already over. So she did not die in the flood and it's hard to understand how the flood, I mean, as tragic as it was, I'm sure they lost their home and that was not a good thing, but it's hard to see how that

caused her death in any way. Yeah. And the way William Brannum would tell the story in most of his tellings, right? He finds her in a refugee hospital during the midst of the flood and the doctor says, your wife has galloping TB. She's not going to make it. And William Brannum says, what? I never heard this before. Like he, he always, in almost every telling, he discovers this fact after he's discovered her in the refugee hospital after, you know, as the flood has gone.

Yeah, and there's a few, if you think about it, there's a few problems with this story,

considering the fact that he was a faith healer already before she died. If he is out touring as a faith healer and he's telling the people in the same way that he does in his later years, if you have enough faith, God can heal you and he's presenting himself as basically as this mediator between God and man for the effort of healing. He's basically presenting himself in the stage act as though you don't need to go to God directly and pray for your healing. Instead, I'll help you with this because I can help you have greater faith.

That's how the faith healing stage acts work. But here is his wife back home dying of tuberculosis. And 1936 was also the date in which the deed to the brand-um tabernacle was purchased. So he's spending very little time at seams with his wife. He's out touring as a faith healing evangelist while she's back at home dying. And then her death to any faith healing evangelist, the death of a family member is critical. Ministries just implode. The stage act implodes because he did not even have the power to heal his wife. So instead of being open and honest about

what happened, he instead tries to push his Pentecostal starts or beginnings after her death so that it doesn't look like she died during his stage act and then tries to blame God for her death when in fact he was out touring as a faith healer while she was back home dying.

Yeah. And you know, there's a newspaper article, again, I don't have it right here, but maybe we could put it up. William Brownum had held a major healing revival at the Pentecostal tabernacle in Jeffersonville in September 1936.

Right. And that newspaper article reported a number of healings. And what I kind of wonder, again, I just wonder, I don't know the answer to this. I wonder, does he, did he think that she was healed in that healing revival in September 1936?

Because I mean, no, she was diagnosed in January. You know, he had that healing revival, he reports the healings in the newspaper there in in 1936, September. So if he thinks he healed her in, you know, God healed her through his ministry, however you want to term it in 19 and September, then it kind of would make sense that when the doctor tells him at the flood that she's got TB and going to die, it's a relapse, right? It's a, it's a new, it's a new one. But of course, obviously the doctors when they write her death certificate,

they don't see it that way. She had TB all along. You have to separate what a person who is not in this cult of personality would think versus what a person in the cult of personality would think. Person who's not in the cult of personality is going to say, well, there were probably people that did get healed. God heals people and maybe God for whatever reason decided that it was not in his will for her to be healed. That's what a normal Christian would think.

To the cult of personality, William Brannum's stage act often had this global statement of healing if you're in the meeting and you believe, you know, this is for everyone. This is not just for the people that I am the mediator for on the platform. It's a blanket statement of the audience in many cases. In William Brannum's theology, ideology, if you do not receive healing when he prayed for you with his gift, it was because you did not have faith. It's your fault, right?

It's not the fault of him. It's not the fault of the gift. It's not the fault of God. If you're not healed when he prayed for you, it's your fault because you did not have enough faith.

And that's pretty well direct quotes of what his explanation was when people were not healed. But yet in her case, he blamed God. God killed her because I didn't join the Pentecostal faith. So he's not even shifting that guilt on her. He's blaming God for it.

Yeah. So it's something. And so there is that. You know, he had the revival. Maybe he thought she was healed. Maybe not. So there's that fact. And then there's also the fact that she became pregnant after getting TB. And again, you know, this is this is a sensitive question. But I would think you know, in that day, there is no treatment for tuberculosis, right? There's no such thing as antibiotics back then, right? tuberculosis is generally a death sentence, right? The majority people didn't do not recover. It's a terrible disease. Your body just has to fight it off

naturally. There's just nothing they could really do for you. The cause of the consumption because the bodies literally consumed themselves. So, you know, I think that having a child in the middle of that process and that middle of that disease could well have contributed more to her death than the flood ever did. Absolutely. Now that that's probably more accurate as to what, you know, caused this thing to overtake her. And the daughter hope, I'm sorry, the daughter Sharon Rose, how did she contract it? She was born with it. She was born with her mother's disease.

Again, I don't have her death certificate right here, but she was born with it from birth and died along with her mother just a few days later. Which literally places the fault of the death of daughter on William Brannum. Yeah, it's a it's a sad sad story, you know, and you know, people make mistakes and and I'm not one that, you know, you can trust God and hope for the best. I believe in that. And so I kind of I show grace as much as I can in this part of the story, but you know,

but this is the truth, though, this is the truth, right? And I, and I personally, I don't say these because I, you know, want to destroy or make these people look terrible, you know, but I just say because it's it's the truth, right? And people need to look at the truth and have all the facts so they can make a decision based on the facts, not on the fairy tales and the myths that have been told to us, the legends that have turned out not to be true. So those are the facts around hope, Brannum's death. And it's really hard, right? If you were in this cult of personality,

it's the same psychological problem, right? Something happened to you, something very, very tragic happened to you. And you want to find someone to blame. So you want to blame William Brannum, who's the leader of this sect, who's basically the face behind the pain that you had, the pain and suffering that you had. But you have to really in this story, you have to separate that from the actual human, not the stage act. William Brannum suffered a severe tragic event right here.

I do believe that he loved hope. And if you look at the psychological effects, I'm no psychologist, but I love psychology and I'm fascinated with studying it. You look at the guilt that he has whenever he's, you know, telling these stories and he's transferring the guilt, which means it's more than he himself can emotionally handle. This was a, this was a event that basically formed his entire life. This was a turning point in his life. It was a painful, painful event.

The event that actually happened. And then you separate that from the fictional story that he gives on, on recording, you know, in these life stories, it's a very, very dumb, down fictional event. And it's quite frankly, it's not as painful as what actually happened. So I look at it like this, you know, I feel sorry for William Brannum. I really, really do. I do see that he caused a lot of problems. He, there's a lot of people in pain because of William Brannum. But his, his pain that he suffered could have caused this psychologically. It was such a tragic event that happened to him.

Right. And according to his, according to his life stories, even the official stuff, he had made multiple suicide attempts after this happened, after they died, William Brannum made multiple suicide attempts that failed.

I won't relate all the details of them, but it's a feist to say he tried to kill himself multiple times. And I know, like I said, I know people who were with William Brannum through this series of events, like there was one family at our church who, our Jeffersonville church, who after this happened, you know, William Brannum was so depressed and so sad, they invited him over to Thanksgiving dinner, you know, after he, you know, he was just so down they wanted to try and cheer him up, and he was, they said he was so depressed, he was so distraught, he just, he was miserable,

you know, at every level when this happened and they invited him to Thanksgiving dinner, they tried to do what they could to cheer him up, they helped take care of his son, you know, as they could. And so, you know, I do believe that he truly was deeply affected by this and who wouldn't be, right? Who wouldn't be? But something happened in his reaction to this, you know, instead of just be honest about the whole story to everybody, he reinvented it, you know, to be something that wasn't true. Yeah, it's such a, such a sad, sad story. And I think I mentioned

in an early recording that we're going to cover the very, very hard tragic topics, the very fun, exciting topics and everything in between. This is one, in my opinion, that it's gut wrenching. I mean, it's just, it's really hard, but you have to understand this to understand the rest of it, if you know what I mean. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if it's been obvious to the viewers, but I've been holding back tears several times through this because not just from the aspect of the true story is so tragic. And then also, to me, the truth, the truth is so tragic, John, to learn

how he misled us about these things. That is, that's a personal tragedy for me. And so, we all get to share in the double tragedy of this whole thing and the fallout from it.

Yeah, it's part of the stages of grief. Whenever you were indoctrinated and unduly influenced, into a cult of personality, it literally creates a cult identity and that identity is the leader. So in our, in the minds of the people that have been indoctrinated with this, they have the identity of William Brannum, not realizing that a large portion of that identity that is deeply embedded in their person is fictional. And when you realize it's fictional, that person, that entity that's inside of you literally begins to die and people who are in this type of thing, they go through all the

stages of grief because literally somebody that they were very close to has just died. Right. And you know, as we, as we're coming down towards the end, you know, as we look at this topic, I'm left with, there's lingering questions here that there's just no good answer to when you're a message, when you're a message believer.

And one is, why did William Brannum mislead us about his relationship with Pentecostals prior to 1937, you know, and, and how do we preserve the legacy of his ministry when the whole story of on which it got started turns out to be largely fabricated, right?

And why did he say, why did he say his wife died in the flood because she didn't, I mean, and here, let me just read one quote, I will read one quote on this.

This is William Brannum, he said, it was at this time that the anointing of God which had come up on me left me. It never really, really returned until five years later. My church up until that time had been growing prosperous church, but now it began to drop off.

Everything went wrong. With my church going down, I didn't know what to do. Then the dark period of my life when the Ohio River flood that took so many lives came and was responsible for the death of those two that were dearest to me in the world.

Yeah. That's not true. There are some versions of the life story that actually say that the father, his father, his brother, his wife, and his daughter all died during this time period. He says, within just a few weeks, and they're years apart.

I mean, it's not even close to the same time as the flood. Yeah. They did not die in the flood, you know, and he, I don't know exactly why he did that. So you're left with, why did he keep saying his wife died because of the flood when, when she was, she had tuberculosis over a year before the flood and she died six months after the flood had done ended.

And then you think, what kind of person would abuse the memory of his dead wife and child? Right? Like, and it goes to, like you say, something, there's something in his mind. He's trying to maybe overcome a guilt, something of that nature.

That's the one that bothers me the most because whenever he talks about, when he actually makes it to the hospital, he says, and there was this nurse there and he says, hope tells the nurse, I wish that you could have a husband just like my William Brannum and saying all these good things.

And he says the name of the nurse is Juanita. And then he tells the story again and there's another name for the nurse and another name and another name. Yeah. Every single one of these stories, the nurse has a different name.

Yeah. You begin to wonder was he actually at the hospital or was he out touring as a faith healing evangelist while she's in the hospital dying? Yeah. And nobody makes that kind of story out.

Nobody. Yeah. Nobody. And when you read it, so I have been with a lot of people when they have died, John, you know, as a minister and...

Somebody suffering from something like tuberculosis like she did, I guess I'll just leave it to the readers. You listen to what he said their parting, you know, goodbye scene was and you compare that to, you know, the goodbye scenes with your dying loved ones, you know, the moment that they take their last breath and you see if that is a, is that a scene from a movie or is that reality, right?

To me, what he describes in his book is not possible for somebody dying with what she's dying of. So that's very sad. It's very sad. In the final stages of tuberculosis, the body looks like death walking. It has literally consumed itself until it looks like death, not even walking.

They can't even walk there in a bed, but their body is just consumed and they look like a skeleton. Yeah, it's very sad, very sad. You know, and, and perhaps worst of all for me is because this goes to the very heart of the doctrines of the message.

Why did he mislead us about his introduction to penicostalism? That's very, very difficult to reconcile with the rest of the message. Why, how could he mislead us about his introduction to penicostalism? It's very hard to reconcile with his teachings as a whole.

And, you know, I know the message leaders, they have no answers to any of these questions, John, really. If any of these things are brought up, they just shut down debate immediately. There's no answers. There's no responses.

And they, they proceed to just make personal attacks and, you know, and try to ask anybody these things. And, you know, when you find out these things, these are heartbreaking things to find out. And, you know, a lot of times the person is in a very sorrowful state when they find this stuff out.

I know I sure was, you know, but instead of trying to engage with you, they embark to attack, to destroy you've experienced it, John, I've experienced it. Many people have experienced it. That's really what happens is when you start to question these things. And, maybe I'll end with my close of notes, John, and you can say some close of notes. But, you know, there's so many people I think are waking up in the message.

And, if anybody's listening to us and you're waking up and leaving, you're not alone. There's a thriving community out here, John, that there's many people that you can connect with. John, you've got your support groups. There's church in Jeffersonville. There's other places that are welcoming to people.

But, I've heard some of the message people are saying, this is the great falling away. But a friend of mine said, no, it's the great running away. You know, you hit the head on.

nail directly. The cult leaders, they know these things. I mean, they had, think about it. They had one job to do. One job is to study the message, which are the transcripts, the sermons of William Brown and then preach the message, which are the sermons, the transcripts of William Brown. They had one job to do. So these men have studied this, these men know these things exist. You can't study the message and not realize this. Everybody who reads it knows it. And their response, like you said, isn't to answer the questions. They literally deflect by attacking the character of whoever asked the questions. They will

do character assassination over offer facts. And honestly, I think that's contributing to the great running away, right? Because people are starting to realize, if you deflect 100% of the time, there's probably something wrong. If you attack the character of the people who asked the questions, then what kind of a person are you? And they don't want to be under this type of leadership. So there is a great running away.

Yeah. I know personally, John, I know I've said before I love the message. I love the message. I know you did too. It was, it was our life. It was everything to us. And we know exactly what it's like to walk away because you lose everything. You lose all your friends.

You lose all your loved ones. And we know how hard it is for people who are facing that decision. And you know, for people in the message, I want them to know that we care about them. We love, I love the people in the message very much. I still think of them as my very best friends, even though they run away from me as fast as they can if they see me coming.

There was a time I would, I was actually mentally prepared because this is part of the indoctrination. Russia is going to invade. They're going to attack you. I was mentally prepared to face a firing squad to defend William Brannum in the message. Up until the point I realized that, wait a minute, that's not even true. I would have died for it. And I too love the people that are in it. And I basically in my mind, I have to separate the person that is attacking you that is, you know, even some of the members will do character assassination

rather than give answers. But that's because they're being trained to do so by the leaders. It's not even their fault. So I separate the person that I like from the person that is indoctrinated to attack.

Yeah, you're exactly right, John. And so for people on the inside that you want to get out and you feel trapped and you're listening to these podcasts secretly, this is a labor of love that we're doing. So, you know, and we understand, you know, and I hope, I hope and pray that you're able to find your way out and to something better because there is a better way. So, absolutely.

Alright, so maybe we can end on an encouraging note, John, after all of the sad things we talked about. Yeah. It's very encouraging to see people getting freedom. I'm very happy and I realize that after they leave, it's quite a long journey after this.

You have to go through relearning and understanding and your whole world view, your whole perspective changes. And some people go many different directions and then they end up coming back to other directions. It's very, it's an exciting journey.

It's a painful journey. It's a freeing journey, but it is a journey. And I understand that and if you need help, contact us on the website. If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, check us out on the web.

You can find us at www.William-Branum.org and www.ChristianGospelChurch.org. Send us a message we'd like to hear from you. For an overview of the historical research of William Brannum in the Healing Revivals, reg preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William Brannum and his message available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Join us again next week. We've got a great episode coming.