Racism in the Message

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.org. Together we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Brannum and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals.

Charles, today's episode is one that I think is going to be a little painful, probably for both of us. This is a subject that I'll be honest. Many people in the message just really don't talk about, and those in the south and the churches in the south that I've attended kind of take pride in what we're about to talk about. Those in the north know it exists, and some of them participate, and others know it exists, and they try to sweep it under the rug.

And I've kind of been on both sides of that aisle. I've been with leaders in the message who are very, very much what we're about to talk about. And I've been with people who were strongly against this mentality. And personally, it honestly was a life change for me, leaving the message and coming to realization just what this was that we were in.

Yes, so this is a topic that I'm also, I'm not super interested to get into this one, John. This is a little, it's an unpleasant topic, honestly, and it's not stuff that I certainly like to remember.

But it contains some important stuff that I do think that people definitely need to know about, need to know that this stuff goes on and this stuff happens, especially people in the message, but also people outside the message need to be aware of this as well. And today we're going to be looking at the effects of these racial teachings on people inside the message, that's what we're going to talk about. And you know, we have, in our last two episodes, we have, we started with British Israelism. We traced where the racial views around Serpent Seed began, and it was racial

from the beginning. We traced it up through the Christian identity movement in our last episode, where elements advance. by Semitism also was added into the Serpent Seed Teachings, and then we also demonstrated where William Brannum made the exact same connections to African people, to Jewish people that Christian identity does.

He just did it without saying the word black or Jew, which again is in the places that I come from is the way that these things are taught. He just taught exactly like William Brannum taught it in the aspect of chasing the descendants of the Serpent Seed, just the words black and Jew are omitted.

But if you look the people up in the Bible who they are, they are the ancestors of the Africans and the Jewish people as who they are. So it's just that simple. Yeah, it's really problematic when you think about it because he is saying exactly what all of the racist, you know, white supremacists of the era were saying he omitted the words.

But the problem for me, I keep coming back to this fact that there were people in his ministry, my grandfather included, that knew exactly what he was talking about. They have study, I mean, that's the one job, Charles.

They are ministers in this thing. They are paid literally 10% of wages by the people to study this. They knew exactly what he was talking about. When he omitted the word black, they knew he was still referring to black people because they had studied, you know, all of the genealogies that he's talking about.

And they had heard the white supremacists of the era that were talking about this. So it's so problematic for me. Right. You're spot on John. There are a segment of people in the message and especially among message ministers that absolutely know that Serpent Seed is a racial.

The racial aspects of it are shared in a very plain way, privately, among leaders in the message where I come from. And John, we know we have evidence from Levail talking about it. We have evidence of people around Perry Green talking about it, right?

My sect, the sect you come from, you know what was said by your grandfather to you. You know, we could look overseas to Cacao Philippe. We could look, you know, what things we've heard back from Ewald Frank's sect.

We know that these racial teachings are in almost every single early sect of the message. We also know, as we maybe talk through a little bit in this episode, our inn was in or at least was in.

Maybe still is. And some of the other Latter-Rain splinter groups coming out of Latter-Rain because, you know, this stuff was in the Latter-Rain movement via William Brandon and George Houghton from the very beginning of Latter-Rain.

So this stuff has went to a lot of places. It's just, it's always been private, though, John. The racial part of this has always been the secret, let me whisper in your ear and tell you the part of Serpent Seed you don't know.

That's how it has been since the very- early days. And I think in the last episode I mentioned that 1954 was the first time William Brandham ever preached serpent seed on tape. And I read that quote, I actually got that out of Doug Weaver's book. That's where I actually got that from. But I decided to go look John and I actually found a number of places before 1954 where William Brandham was preaching serpent seed on tape. And the oldest spot that he was teaching at all was in a sermon from 1950. I think it was a show as the father and it suffice with us, I think, from maybe August

to that year. In that sermon he calls Cain the son of Satan in that sermon. And that is was the earliest slip where I can find him mentioning serpent seed. And so we have things like that where William Brandham is calling Cain the son of Satan or we have little slips where I don't think he's being recorded like the one I read last time where he says now it's just church folk here. This is a private little group here. Let me tell you my belief about Cain being the son of Satan. So we have these indications that William Brandham was privately inserting this racial

stuff about Cain all the way back to the earliest days of the healing revival, honestly. And that's how it was done. It was a private thing on the side. And I think that's where no doubt the leaders from my sect of the message learned how to transmit the the understanding of serpent seed.

Because that's the way that William Brandham himself did it. Right. And he even mentions to certain audiences that even from his conversion he did not like black people. He says it openly. I did not like black people. And he tries to morph it into this divine inspiration by God where he's you know sent by God to a black church. And he says I did not want to go because I did not like black people. But think of the implications of that Charles. This is a prophet of God who does not like a subset of God's people just because of their skin color. And if it were just simply that

I could let it go if he just did not you know like black people because of the era his raising by his parents, whatever it was. And then changed got changed by God and became a person who was teaching equality. I could give him a pass because people change. But what we see in William Brandham's ministry is not that he does not change. He continues teaching the highly racist version of these doctrines. He's working with the highest ranking white supremacist in the nation.

And I mean I could go on and on the list of ties to the clan and his doctrines are just endless. But I don't see a change in William Brandham's ministry. You've got these situations where you know William Brandham is saying, Kane is the son of Satan. He's slipping this into his serpents all the way back all the way back to the earliest days of the healing revival, right? You come into the fifties and you've got William Brandham's say in statements like, well, I hope Roy Davis is here with us today. You know, the imperial I hope the imperial wizard of the clan is here

with us today. And you've got other white supremacists in his meetings, right? That we know we're there. And so it's not just that he's we're, you know, we're we're taking a few of his words and twisting them.

He's preaching a key doctrine of the white supremacist movement. The highest ranking clan officials in the United States are at coming to his meetings. Well, I mean, upshall was at his meetings multiple times. So and then we have books like Patsy Sims books that tells us that there's clan stuff happening on the sides of these meetings.

And so I come away convinced, John, that when the preachers in my part of the message tell me that William Brandham privately told them this racial stuff, I believe them. I believe them because A, I would have believed every single thing they told me before up until that moment, because they were the, you know, telling me the word God, right? Their God's messengers do this. So I would believe it when they also told me that this racial stuff came from William Brandham, but not only from that, the evidence all points to to that happening on the sidelines of those

on the meat sidelines of the meetings. And that's how that stuff was passed down into the message today. You know, William Brandham said you can tell the type of person you're dealing with by the company that he keeps.

And what's interesting is the majority of the cult completely ignored the statement. I've actually been contacted by cult members who say that we're just showing guilt by association and you can't charge William Brandham because he's with the highest ranking member of the Ku Klux Klan. But it's deeper than that, Charles.

I think people, you know, a lot of people in the message were uneducated on purpose because William Brandham, his entire position during this era was fighting the education system because it was racially integrating. And they don't know history. This was not just some average person that he was associating with. This was during a war.

This was a war between the white supremacists and the United States government. A war that was militarized, they had, you know, the government actually had to send the army down into some school systems. And William Brandham, in those instances, took the side of the white supremacists against the United States who are forcing equality and freedom. So it's not just guilt by association, but even deeper than that picture. I mean, we just had the president of the president of Ukraine come to the United States and it was a big, big deal.

The security required to get to the United States during a war was unbelievable. We'll think back in this era. Roy Davis is the one of the leaders, not maybe not the primary, but he's one of the leaders of this war against the United States. And William Bram knows his travel agenda. He knows that he's going to be in certain states at certain times. And I think the instance I'm remembering was a meeting in Florida, if I remember correctly, but he knows where this person is, which is a big deal. Because he's at that point, he's basically stating that he's on the inside with these guys. But for me,

it goes so far beyond even the association with these high ranking members of the clan. William Bram, even the stories he tells, the allegories, the doctrines. If you line it up with the timeline of civil rights, he is taking the white supremacist side in every instance, every instance that I've looked at. And I think the most difficult part for me, and I'm probably going to deeply apologize several times throughout this conversation. I was racist. I had no idea that I was racist, but I was a racist. And coming to that realization was very, very painful,

because I had black friends. I had very close black friends. And I like all of the message leaders around me that I watched and basically molded my character was just like them. In the public, I had these black friends. And in the private, we thought and we acted a different way. And that is just, that's really problematic. William Bram, also, if you find pictures of him, you can find pictures of him standing next to people with black skin. But then he's, he's racially profiling, even in some of the stories and allegories he tells. Like, I don't

know if you remember, he talks about, he calls her the Shunamite woman. He's going down into the deep south. And he goes to see a woman who says, person, will you come pray for my son? And this woman, you know, if the story was true, we don't even know if the story is true. But he instantly goes towards describing this, her son having a venereal disease. And just painting the picture that no white woman in his audience would ever want their daughter to be near this guy.

And that's what all of the white supremacists were doing because they were trying to paint the portrait of people with black skin as being vile, detestable so that their white female children would not go to the school system and potentially fall in love with them. And all the way down from there, all the way up to, you know, his...

Don't mix races when you marry doctrines. These things were not biblical by no means, but they were very common of the era with white supremacists. Yeah, he perpetuated a lot of racial stereotypes, for sure.

And in a lot of ways, in a lot of ways William Brannum was not too far, I think, out of, I hate to say what I believe he's not too far out of a mainstream southerner's views at the time, but he was living in, right?

I think that William Brannum held the views of the average southerner in the United States at the time of the 1950s. Now, I don't think the average southerner believed Serpent Seed, maybe they did.

I mean, I could be off the rails there, but William Brannum did believe Serpent Seed on top of it. And, you know, to the guilt by association stuff, you know, yeah, you know, when I was, when I was out of them, when I was still in the message, John, I did.

I thought this was guilt by association. The first time I saw in the news, so John, I didn't learn the William Brannum was in the KKK from you, or connected to him from you.

I learned it from the national Canadian news. This stuff was in national news in Canada that William Brannum was connected to the Ku Klux Klan. And it made me so angry, John, too. And I started researching that at that point.

And that's when I started to realize that you had unearth William Brannum's connections to the imperial wizard of the clan. And, you know, people can say guilt by association, but it is more than guilt by association.

And here's the thing. If you were connected to the imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, right, I don't care. Yeah, you are guilty. If you were connected to Adolf Hitler, yeah, you're guilty.

You're guilty, right? Guilt by association, absolutely. People connected to Hitler were terrible people. None of them should ever be listened to, right? People connected to the imperial wizard of the clan are terrible people.

They should never be listened to. William Brannum should never be listened to just from that alone, honestly. Yeah, guilt by association is good enough for condemning somebody, but it is more than that. He was sharing their ideology.

He gets in the platform. He says, God, the segregationist, I am too. And here's the thing is the message continues to implement a variation of segregation in many of it's sex down to the present day.

They continue to promote these racial views to the present day in some sex of the message. And you know, in my sect of the message John, because of the racial views, interracial people were not permitted to attend my church.

I don't know, did you know that John? No, I did not know that. Interracial people were not permitted to attend my church. Our pastor, multiple times, had interracial people put out of the church.

We, there was one woman, a grandmother. She had grandchildren that she wanted to bring the church who were interracial. And you know, everybody knows the rules implicitly. She asked the pastor if she can take her interracial grandchildren to church.

She goes to the pastor and the pastor. She told me this story herself. She told me that the pastor told her, no, you may not bring your interracial children, grandchildren to church, right, because they're interracial.

The pastor told me personally, we had, there was a family in the church that adopted black children. So imagine this, their black children adopted sitting in this church, where this stuff goes on. And he tells me, you know, he tells me something like this.

And this was the day he told me the truth about Serpent Seed that he told me this story. He said, it was a terrible mistake when those parents adopted those children, but since they didn't know any better at the time, we're going to let them attend church.

Can you, can you believe that? That's awful. This, and this comes out of those Serpent Seed views, John. There is absolutely racial things that go on in the message as a result of the Serpent Seed beliefs that William Brannum learned from the imperial wizard and other white supremacists.

Yeah. I personally know ministers in the message. And it's various, some of it's very splinter groups that they will not marry a, they will not perform the wedding of a black person and a white person in a, you know, in a union of marriage.

But when those people who are in love go to some other non cult minister to get married, once they have children, I am aware of ministers who actually sit down with the parents and say, now you both have made a grave mistake and your children will never make it into heaven.

They're doomed to hell. They are, and, you know, there's different words used. They try to delicately say, delicately say that they're the violist, lowest forms of creatures on the earth. But that's what they tell the parents.

And I mean, it's, it's really horrific. I know parents that have, you know, with interracial children that are just devastated by this. And what's really, really sad is they don't realize how racist the message, message is.

They continue attending message churches, even though they've just been told that their children will never make it into heaven in this religion. Yeah, we lead this, this was taught publicly at our church. And I could go find clips of it.

We were taught, serpency did not have souls. Um, they did not have souls. The term, and I think Raymond Jackson may have coined this term, I don't know, but the term that was used in our sect of the messengers is soulish.

They're solish. They have something like a soul, but it's not really a soul, right? And so we didn't even believe that they had souls, right? They were, uh, and this is so racist. Straight out of Christian identity theology, we believe they were essentially...

animals, John. That is what we were taught about the serpency. So we held the belief that there are some segment of the population walking out there are only a little better than animals. Yeah. It's awful. That is awful, John. You know, I look back on that. What in the world?

You know, that's what Hitler was doing. And the truth is, that's where it came from. It came from Hitler's influence into Christian identity theology. Yeah, what's really sad, Charles, I know men, personally, who are ministers in this, that if you were to ask them, are you a, are you racist? Do you believe in equality? They will tell you, yes. And they will work with people of all skin colors, some of them are missionaries in other countries. And they seem to do it out of sympathy. In other words, they want the people with black skin to be saved and go to heaven. They truly, I believe that they truly want it.

Yet at the same time, they are fully indoctrinated to believe that they can't. So they're doing it out of some sort of sympathy. And it's almost like a fruitless mission, if you really think about what they're doing, because they truly believe that these people with black skin are less than us. And some of them don't fully accept the notion that people with black skin are serpent seed.

But they, I actually cannot think of one that does not think that the hybrid between a white person and a black person produces a serpent seed. And some of them even use that phrase, this is a serpent seed child. So what they're saying is basically there is a separation in the bloodlines. And if you follow that all the way back to its origination of doctrine, they're basically teaching Wesley Swift's doctrine that the descendants of ham are the serpent seed.

Yeah, you know, kind of elaborating on what my pastor shared with me. And I need to share this whole story for this episode. It's over. I've teased it so many times. I just going to have to tell the whole story.

But our pastor, you know, kind of reading into what he would, what he told me privately, and along with the other public teachings, I don't think so. We didn't think that

anybody could not be saved. We would still believe that any race of people could still be saved, but they were inferior. They were inferior. That's how it was looked at. And they may have a lower place in heaven, or they may, in some way, continue to be inferior for all eternity.

Right? I think that that is generally what they believed, and that the other races were meant to serve the bride of Christ. And, you know, there's passages in the Bible about the bride of Christ being kings and priests, and then others about some people being servants, and they would use those scriptures to kind of justify.

that. But they still believe there was a chance for them to be saved, but never to be equal. So, that's how I would take the things that he explained. But when you cross, when you cross races, that only produces serpency. That cannot be saved, right? That's the line, right? If you've hybridied them, like William Brown would say, if you've hybridied them, there's no salvation.

But if you're separate, you can still be saved, but just in some lower category, right? So, it's terrible. It really is terrible, right? And when you think about that in the message, I mean, where I come from, I mean, I can pull that out of the public teachings, what I said just there. But the fact that it is racial, that is a little bit private, right? So, it's something else.

But what on my share of the story, John, of how I was privately instructed in this stuff for our listeners? And, you know, I had a lot of opportunities in my life where I should have been able to clue in that serpency was racial. I really did, but something in me, you know, I'm not inherently, I don't think I'm inherently that way. You know, something in me was always, no, this cannot, this can't be right, right? But it was always there just below the surface of the things that they preached. And kind of like we talked about in our last episode, talking about

this, John does not make us any friends, right? Like I have no, there's nothing to gain certainly for me telling this. This can only, you know, hurt, hurt us, right? I mean, only hurt me talking about this, but I'm gonna share it, you know? And I'm doing it because almost no one wants to talk about this stuff, but the evidence is overwhelming, honestly. And for most of my time in the message, I did not realize that serpency was racial. I never really connected the dots because the message had this way of teaching it publicly that can leave people totally oblivious to the fact that it's

racial. And there are lots of people in there today who are totally oblivious that it's racial or racist. But the evidence was there all along. Raymond Jackson, for example, one thing he always preached about the serpent. He always consistently told us the serpent was meant to be man's servant.

And he always described the serpent like this more or less a plantation slave who was intended to take care of the Garden of Eden, right? That is, that was how Raymond Jackson described the serpent.

At the very, there was always these clues like that sitting there. And Raymond Jackson was a huge apologist for slavery, John. Huge apologist. A lot of times he would say things to us trying to convince us that slavery had been a good thing, that the slaves enjoyed being slaves, John. He would say things like to that, like that to us. And there's one time in particular that really stands out in my mind when he when he did that is he had found an old slave song a song where

the slaves master had died and all of the slaves on the plantation are singing about how much they love their master and how sad they was that he was dead and so he gets up at church and he sings this song about the slaves loving their masters um you know in front of hundreds and hundreds of people all church was there and when he's all done he's explaining to us how this song is proof that slavery was good and slaves enjoyed being slaves and that they loved their masters right and so he would do things like that to help you

know to a pot you know make us think slavery was a good thing even and it's I look back now I'm like oh my goodness how did I not see it how did I not see it but things like that would happen through the years you know where a reasonable person would have looked at that and said and and John he did not do that back in the 50s and 60s he I'm talking in the 90s at least that was the 90s when he did that that thing and you just left wondering what in the world how could I

have missed it you you feel that way some back what looking back on it how did I miss it yeah well and it's so insidious it's so deceptive and covertly evil I've like I said many times in the past I've been to churches from South Carolina to Arizona everywhere in between and majority of the churches do not have any black people in them and majority and I'm not going to say that's because all of the churches in the message are highly racist there are many that aren't I'll I'll be the first to admit that but what happens is they're promoting William Brannum William Brannum

is making these very very racist statements in these sermons and whenever a black person attends one of these churches who have been educated as to the history of white supremacy and are aware of these things they're not going to stay in the church there are a large number of black people who aren't aware and they will sit and they'll praise God when they hear these racist statements they're they're just fully unaware that these things are being said and so what happens is you end up with a wide variety of churches that some of the ministers are highly racist and have no black

people and so they have no guardrails they'll say anything and everything racist or not then you have other churches where there are black people that attend who aren't aware of these things and you watch the speech patterns change even the men who were saying the very racist things the moment a black person sits in their congregation, they start to change what they're saying.

So the black person isn't offended. Cognitively, they have to know that these things that they're saying are racist. But like us, a lot of them are just fully indoctrinated and aren't themselves aware that they're doing this.

And the most interesting thing for me in hindsight, looking back at all of this, there are a number, a growing number of ministers who are now saying and have been for probably, I don't know, 10 years, 15 years, that the serpent, that the serpent seed doctrine from the Garden of Eden to the flood was a racial identity.

Then after the flood, it became a spiritual identity. And so they're basically taking blood and race out of it. And they're saying that we have a supernatural, serpent seed, and a supernatural, non-servant seed race.

But that's not what William Brannum taught. That's not what he taught. So they don't believe the message, right? Not at all. But where it gets really interesting is there are doctrines that exist only because people were not grasping William Brannum's racist statements.

The majority of people who stayed in the message and pretended to be non-racist or were tricked into believing as doctrine and were non-racist, they weren't aware that the bloodline of ham as William Brannum was teaching it was a black bloodline.

And so they weren't getting it. And so William Brannum followed up with these other doctrines, like the high breeding doctrine we've mentioned, and there's a number of doctrines. There's the doctrines of education, and a man should be satisfied in the state he's in.

There's so many doctrines that go with this that William Brannum started introducing other doctrines because people weren't getting that they were supposed to be racist. And the prohibition against interracial marriage, I mean, that was just flat out plain when he made those.

Absolutely. That was plain. No interracial marriage. Yes, so these same ministers that say this is a supernatural serpent-seed doctrine after the flood, they will proceed to say that also because of this, we can't have black people and white people producing hybrid offspring because they will be serpent-seed.

So then there's this weird thing. You can watch the confusion on their faces. They do this because they're saying the racist thing and they're saying it's non-racist and their brain is literally playing tug-of-war with itself trying to reconcile this racist thing with the idea that it's not.

And I just have to say it's unbelievable that people stay in this who have black skin. Yeah, especially after you hear the things we're talking about in these episodes. Kind of going back to my story about me being privately instructed in this stuff.

So growing up, there was a rumor that went around our church and our sects of the message. And John, we had, you know, when I was back in those days, we probably had in the neighborhood of 50 churches in our sect of the message back then.

You know, I'm kind of estimating a little bit, but the fellowship with us here and there. And going around in our sects, I mean, I had friends in a lots of different churches and I can remember conversations where, you know, we'd say we've heard this rumor that Cain was the first black man.

Have you heard this rumor? And I can remember being asked that, you know, from people in my age groups. And I'm like, well, Raymond Jack, they'd say they heard this rumours come from our pastor, Raymond Jack.

I've heard that in the main sect. Yeah, and so, and they would ask me about that when they'd come to our conventions. I said, well, he's never preached that publicly, you know? And I always thought, well, this is just a rumor, right?

Even though the rumor was purportedly to come from him. And so I always more or less dismissed it. But there was kind of a turning point for me. One thing when it started to turn is we had a minister from overseas one time, it's probably about 15 years ago.

He was not white. And as part of his talking to us, he apologized to us all for being brown. You know, in the middle of the church service, he gets up on, he apologizes for being brown.

And as he apologizes for being brown, there are a number of people in the congregation saying, amen, amen. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, what in the world? And they're amenning this man for apologizing for being brown.

And I'm like, what in the world is wrong? There are, we've got some racists in here, right? That's when I started to clue in. We got some racists in here. And not long after that, the pastor's son, one day after service on the platform, there are other people standing there, said something very directly that Cain was a black man.

Like it was very unmistakable that that's what he said. Then you fast forward a little bit from that and a deacon, I'm with a deacon. And rather, I'm with three deacons. This is a three deacons in the pastor.

So I'm done preaching at this point. I'm a minister. I'm with a deacon, three deacons in the pastor. And they start making racial jokes, John. The deacons, the pastors. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, I cannot believe that three of the deacons and the pastor sitting here making racial jokes.

Like it was just, it was appalling. And that was about the time that Muhammad Ali died that that was happening. Cause I remember it was connected to Muhammad Ali, those jokes they were making.

And I just could not believe it. I was very shocked. Then fast forward a little bit again. And I'm with one of the deacons of the church, and this is the first time anyone in leadership has ever told me the truth about serpent seed.

And the deacon tells me point blank that Cain was the first black man. And as the deacon tells this to me, I just, I'm flabbergasted. I don't really say anything. And I just kind of conclude, well, that deacons racist. That's more or less what I concluded at that moment.

So here's how I found this stuff out, John. So one or two Sundays after that, I get up and it's my turn to preach and I preach a sermon. And I preach in my sermon, serpent seed is not racial.

That I'm very pronounced in the sermon saying serpent seed is not connected to race races. It's not racial. Well, John, the very next day is when I start to be corrected on this stuff.

So the very next day, I get a phone call and I didn't realize it at the time, but our pastor had put this man up to it. I found out later. So a man from a church in another state, who is a black man, calls me up on the phone Monday morning after I preach serpent seeds, not racist racial.

And he's telling me on the phone, John, he says to me, it's the quotes more or less like this, the paraphrase, he says, now we know Brother Charles, where are people come from? And we know we're descended from Cain.

And he tells me this point blank on the on the phone. And so that clues me in, oh my goodness, even the black people, some of them in our sect of the message, believe this stuff.

And I'm still at this point thinking, this is just all people's private ideas. And I just with him on the phone again, I was, uh-huh, okay, I ignored and pass it off. Then come down just a little bit after that. I'm visiting the pastor's wife in the nursing home. She's not well.

And the pastor calls me aside as I'm leaving. It says, there's some things I want to talk to you about. And again, this is in response to him. He knows I've been looking into the KKK stuff, John.

He knows I just preach serpents. He wasn't racial, right? And this is why he's talking to me, right? It's in that context, John. And he proceeds to tell me everything, John. He tells me Cain was the first black man.

He told me serpents seed, interracial marriage can only produce serpents seed, right? Like that's all it is. He then proceeded to walk me through different interracial people that he had had to put out a church, including those orphans I'd mentioned to you.

The problem he'd had there that he had to deal with. You know, he walked me through all of this racial discipline that had been carried out in the church. He he told me that interracial marriage is why God sent the flood and destroyed the world.

He told me That's why God's gonna bring judgment on the world again today is because of interracial marriage in the world. You know, it's terrible stuff, John. And he told me that it's all gonna end in a race war, John, Christian Identity Theo.

And he told me that race war was what we call George Washington's vision, which William Brandham actually mentions George Washington's vision on tape if you go look. And George Washington's vision is the message where I come from is the message version of the end of day's race war.

And so he's sharing all of this with me and I'm flabbergasted, John. I'm flabbergasted at that point. I do not know what to do because I've already at that point done figured out that William Brandham was connected to the clan, that Serpent Seed came out of Christian Identity Theology.

And now my pastor is sitting here face to face teaching me Christian Identity Theology. I'm finally to the point I can talk about this without crying and weeping anymore. I'm starting to get to the point where it really makes me quite angry when I think about this stuff.

You know, this was a political cult. I've said it often, this was not a religious cult, it was a political cult. And I think a large number of people aren't aware that they were supposed to see the impending race war coming.

William Brandham was a doomsday prophet and he was teaching basically the clans or the white supremacy doomsday. The Catholics were going to invade, you've got to watch the Roman Catholic church. He's saying exactly what the clansmen of his day were saying.

And he even injects the political statements into his religious doctrine. Esau and Jacob's birthright, for example, when James Meredith, who was an army veteran who tried to attend school, and I mean, this is a grown man who'd served in the military and he was enrolled in the University of Mississippi, which had previously been in all white school, Mississippi rejected him coming in.

And William Brandham says, and it's so awful, I read this now and I'm just shocked that he said it. He says, but I tell you one thing, that boy, and that just angers me.

This was a man, this was a man who fought for our country. That boy wasn't down there just because of their schools, that boy is a citizen. He's American, this is freedom for all, the color of a man, and he goes on and on and he says, he says that boy, he was a soldier, he's a veteran, he fought for what's right.

He had a right to go to school, but he had plenty of schools that he could go to. That's what the thing is. He says this present day denominational stuff is inspiring that they're swinging those colored votes from Republican to Democrat and they're selling their birthrights by doing it.

Think of the timeline, this is 1962, this is, you know, present Kennedy. he's basically, he's about to be assassinated for being the leader against the white supremacists. He's the leader of equality. William Brannum basically in his doctrine of paints of Kennedy as Ahab is basically he's the opposing force to the good versus evil. And they're teaching this impending race war that's going to just destroy the United States. You've got the Catholic church with the Pope is at the top. He's basically the the leader of the opposition and his minions in the clan doctrine were black people. And they saw the Democrats as joining in with this

that basically they were going to bring the end of days. And it's all through William Brannum sermons. Yeah, I when when I was when my pastor again shared with me this the private stuff he shared with me what William Brannum said about there's a quote from William Brannum along this line that Martin Luther King is going to lead thousands times thousands of his people to a great slaughter. William Brannum made that statement and he my pastor looked at that more less as as being prophetic a prophecy and he connected that told me that's going to be fulfilled

with what we would call George Washington's vision which is the end of days race war that are part my sect of the message believed in it's something else. And here's here's the thing if I if I haven't stated this clearly the pastor the man telling me all of this attended the Brannum Tabernacle why William Brannum was still living he preached at the Brannum Tabernacle why William Brannum was still living and he told me through this that Raymond Jackson believe these things and that they had learned these things from William Brannum this is where this come from right this

was all told to me directly and I again I see absolutely no reason to doubt them and after he told me that John after the shock wore off I started questioning other ministers and people about the stuff I was trying to figure out if if my pastor was losing his mind or if this is what was actually believed and this is when I started encountering a number of other preachers who believe that I started reaching out even ministers outside of our immediate church and sect that I hadn't known people who had fellowshiped in days gone by even with asking and I this is where I was told by one

old time pastor quote we were all in the clan back then Charles unquote and try and to tell me it's not really a big deal right it was in the immediate aftermath of finding all of this stuff out and me trying to figure out how deep this thing went and so again the current pastor of faith assembly who you can listen to every Sunday told me these things and believes these very racial things and and you know the person who took my place as assistant pastor got up after I left I didn't hear this personally I was told this and said

if we can't preach and tell the truth here then where can you? Yeah. Defending these teachings that they want to share about this stuff and it is, John, this is outrageous, honestly. This is outrageous. People should probably be in jail. They're things here that I'm sure are illegal.

But of course, that's for authorities to investigate and decide not me. For me, it wasn't as clear and defined as what you had. I wish it were, to be honest. There were moments that I came to realize that this was a racist movement. One of the biggest moments for me, and it's a very fond memory in the message, we were living here in Jeffersonville, Indiana, and there was a black family who came up from Georgia that my family knew them and they were musicians, singers, and they came up to attend some meeting. I can't remember what it was, but they didn't have any place to go in the afternoon,

so I invited them over to my house and we had such a great time, music singing, somewhere if I can find it. I've got to actually have a recording of some of the songs we played, just a wonderful, wonderful time. And while they were there in that moment, there was no racial barrier whatsoever.

I saw them as people, I saw them, I didn't care, but their skin color, anything like this. And then when you go outside of that, when they leave, and then you're around, I'm not even going to mention their names, but respectable quote unquote, respectable people in the message.

When they're not around people with black skin, the conversations about the people with black skin change, and it really, really bothered me at that moment, but again, I didn't know it was racist. I didn't, I did not fully understand any of this and I was indoctrinated from childbirth to believe this stuff. So it was a defining moment for me. I could realize that there was something wrong.

There was something just wasn't quite right with this at that moment. And even after I left, even after I discovered that Roy Davis, who was William Branham's mentor, was the high-ranking clan official, who's basically leading a lot of these civil rights protests, etc.

Even to that point, I still was not aware that I was racist because I had those moments. I had those times when I could be with black people and be just not think anything of it.

But then I remembered there were times that I didn't, and the realization of that for me was terrifying because these were people that I considered my friends, and I stopped to look back at the ministers that I've, you know, close friends of mine.

who worked with people with black skin and I started to think about instances where it was the same for them when they were around people with black skin it was different than when they weren't and the conversations were different and the jokes were different and the things that we laughed at I have apologized many times to black people I will apologize on this show I'm I'm I'm mortified that I was like this but that's the way that we were raised and I'm the first to admit we were raised that way because of the message not not along with not combined not as as some fluke of the culture that we're in because of the message we were racist

yeah you know it this is the part of the message that makes me feel dirty john you know most of the rest of it there's parts of it that you know all these were just some silly ideas this makes you feel dirty when you realize what this was and when what they were what they were doing and it is I am absolutely convinced this is a covert way john to get people who are not inherently racist to accept certain racial views that result in segregation or some variation of segregation because that's the end result of all this in the message is it creates a degree of segregation right between the races and it prevents racial mixing that is the end result of it in my sect yeah

and in most of the other sects that would implement this you know some degree of this stuff it results in an element of segregation I know when I went to Africa last time I went to Africa our pastor again a pastor and a decan told me this together they come and say now if they they said last time we were in Africa we were asked about about interracial marriage and they said now make sure that if you were asked anything about interracial marriage while you're in Africa that you either make no comment or tell them that you know it's it's prohibited right like this is this is what I'm told before I go to Africa you know to to say on that topic it's it it is designed to create an element and a degree of separation

and it does it actually does it actually does that that's the end result of it and it's sad it really is sad that that they have managed to infiltrate here's what's happened the Ku Klux Klan is infiltrated Christianity through this message and they have introduced certain doctrines in order to covertly convince people to be racially segregated that's what it is that's the end result of it and it was a strategy from its inception this honestly waking up to realize that I was deceptively trained to be a racist made me realize that there was a strategy behind this this

was not accidental, even I started re-examining the things that William Brannum said and even down to, you know, just casual statements by William Brannum, their casual statements, but they're specifically designed to segregate the races.

I'll read one for you, another one. In the high breeding doctrine, which is the follow-up to explain to people that, yes, the Serpentsy doctrine was supposed to be racist, since you didn't grasp it, here's the high breeding doctrine.

He said, he makes white man, he makes black man, he makes red man. We should never cross that up. It becomes a hybrid and anything hybrid cannot rebreed itself. You are ruining the race of people.

There's some things about a colored man that a white man doesn't even possess them traits. And I want to say that this next sentence is for me. It's the most horrific thing that William Brannum ever said in his racial doctrines.

He has just preached a whole sermon against the racial equality in the school system. If you go back in the paragraphs before, he is talking about racial equality in the civil rights movement. After denouncing the civil rights protests, he says, a white man is always doing and worrying.

A colored man is satisfied in the state he's in, so they don't need those things. In other words, they don't need the same equal rights that we have. They don't need to use our school system.

They don't need to use our bathrooms. I don't know if you've seen some of the old shows that history shows that depict this, but people today don't even grasp that people, if you had black skin and you needed to go to the bathroom, there were times that there would be these nice facilities and these nice, clean facilities for the white people to use.

And the black people would have to walk a ways down the street to go to an old outhouse or some nasty thing. William Brownum is saying they've got this nasty thing, so they don't need our facilities.

Let's give them this nasty thing and it just boils my blood to think that this is a man who is claiming to be a man of God who is saying these horrific things. It's something else, John, it really is.

I want to say that from the day that my pastor told me those things, and then I started to confirm it with other ministers, that's when I accepted and realized that this stuff about the clan was true, that this stuff about the white supremacy and the message and racial connections of Serpent Seed was true.

John, there's not a thing you published that convinced me that the message had racism in it. What convinced me was the... Breachers in the message telling me the racism themselves. That is what convinced me that the message had this stuff in it, right?

You didn't convince me, John. They convinced me and they convinced me in order to try and win me over to their ideology. It's outrageous, it's ridiculous. It's shocking, you know, and here's the thing.

They're in full cover-up mode still to this day on this stuff, John. Yes. They're in full cover-up mode. They are deceiving people big time on this stuff, big time. And, you know, if you're in the message today and you're here in this stuff, run for your life.

Get out of there, run for your life, my goodness. You know, this is terrible stuff. And again, if just in case our audience, this is the first time you've tuned in, let me tell who I am again.

I am formerly assistant pastor of the second oldest continuously operating message church in the world. Our church is in Jeffersonville, just a few miles from the brand of Tabernacle. We are one of the largest message churches in the United States.

We, our people were at the Tabernacle from the earliest days with William Branham. I was told by the people who were there with William Branham in the Tabernacle. I was told by multiple people.

This racial stuff, the clan connections are true. This stuff is true. It is true and they hid it and they covered up from us and they did it covertly this stuff in order to pull one over on us.

And if you're here in me, run for your life. This stuff is dangerous. This is very dangerous stuff. Yeah. What's really sad, once I found this out, I started trying to reach people in the message to try to help them out.

And what's really sad is there is a strong level of indoctrination and undue influence in this cult to the extent that you can literally sit down with a person who has black skin and you can show them William Branham explicitly saying that they're a Mongol race or explicitly saying that they're descendants from ham and ham can trace this bloodline all the way back to the devil.

You can sit down with a black person. You can say you are offspring of the devil according to William Branham. And according to the Bible and according to Christianity, you're welcome as God's children.

It's that big of a difference. You either believe the gospel or you believe that you are the spawn of Satan if you have black skin. Those are your two choices. I can sit down with black people and I can show them this and they will still because of the indoctrination, they'll stay in this realizing that they're the spawn of Satan according to William Branham.

And it just, it boggles my mind that that level of control and manipulation exists. So there was a point in time in which I transitioned my website to just, my target audience is not even these people that William Brannum is calling the spawn of Satan.

My target audience are the historians who want to know about this man who is calling people with black skin the spawn of Satan. And I had to change and unfortunately there is a large number of people in this cult that will never wake up and I'm also trying not to cry.

It pains me to think that you can believe this and accept this as this false gospel as something even remotely even connected to God. You know what I'm saying? This is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

These people, they are, they're literally being called the spawn of Satan. If you have black skin and it pains, I could go, I'm feeling myself going into anger mode at William Brannum and I have to halt.

But if you have black skin and you're in this thing, make that choice. You either choose William Brannum and this man who called you the spawn of Satan or you choose the gospel of Jesus Christ and go to a real church.

Those are your two choices. It's something else, John. It's sad. You know, like I explained in my story, I had a black person call and tell me this, try to convince me that he was descended from Cain.

You know, it's, what do you do with that? It's so, it's, it makes your head hurt to think, to think that there's people in there who believe that about themselves in that way. It's something else.

You know, and there's a lot of stuff, John, in this episode, I've left out, you know, if anyone wants details more stuff, you can go to my website, ChristianGospelChurch.org. Look under tracks. There's an article on there, the case for the white supremacist origin of William Brannum Serpent seed teaching.

I have in there clippings. I have audio recordings of Raymond Jackson preaching this stuff, you know. Through that, if you want to see some evidence, I don't know how much you'll necessarily fit into this recording when we put it up on YouTube, John, but the evidence is there.

The evidence is all there. Before we started recording, Charles, I started making this mental list of examples that I was going to give, and I mean, these are names that everyone in the message is familiar with.

There are people, even in the splinter groups, they're familiar with some of these people. And I started thinking, you know, how do you deal with this? Many of those same people, even though they were leaders in this movement, like myself, they were indoctrinated, they're victims, they're leaders and victims at the same time.

And how do you, how do you say anything about somebody who's a victim? I came to the conclusion, I just really can't, but many of these people are still alive. If you're listening, some of them I know are, when you're listening, you know who I'm talking about, you know who you are.

I decided that I'm not going to say any names, but just the examples that I've given, because if you have black skin and you're hearing this, you have to wake up to the fact that you can see it.

When you're talking to these people, you can see how they change. You can see the difference in their personality. Don't, don't look at what I'm saying. Just look at the examples. Look at what William Brannum said, they're, the cult's website, if you want to get out of this cult, the easiest way is to go read the transcripts on table.brannum.org, and you'll find everything that we're saying.

My website just basically catalogs what William Brannum said in the statements, and you can read them in their full context. You don't have to just read the clip that I've put as, you know, the horrific statement.

Read what he says before, read what he says after in context. And I mean, there's no better way to say it. This man was a racist who was calling you the spawn of Satan if you have black skin.

So sad, John. So sad. People make me sad. Well, Charles, this was, again, an extremely painful episode for me. I'm kind of glad it's over, and I know we had to do it. There's a point in time in which we had to talk about these things, but it's just, it's painful recognizing how wrong you were.

And I think that's the problem with people escaping a cult. They've, they've basically devoted their entire lives to something like this. It's this horrific, this evil. And to reconcile all of those wasted years, you have to try to make some good out of it.

Honestly, Charles, I just came to the conclusion there was no good that you can make from this. If you're drinking a nice, big jug of sweet tea and somebody pours just a little bit of poison in it, even though you may not, may or may not get the poison and die, there's still poison in this drink.

So for me, I just, I couldn't take it anymore. Yeah. It's something else. And, you know, you think about it, it's, it's the perfect, it's the perfect solution for, for a white supremacist. Well, we can't pass segregation laws anymore.

Well, let's just make segregation part of a religion, right? We can't control them through the government. Let's control them through religion, right? And this is exactly... I believe what was going on, John. Yeah, weaponized religion.

That's exactly what this was. Charles, I'm glad this is over. I'm looking forward to the next episode. We have some exciting things coming. And the next show, we're gonna get back into the exciting historical research and information.

And if you've enjoyed this show and you want more of that information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org and ChristianGospelChurch.org. For an overview of the historical research of William-Branum and the healing revivals, read preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William-Branum in his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Join us again next week. We've got a great episode coming.