Antisemitism in the Message

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org. And with me, I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.org.

And together, we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Brannum and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals. Charles, this is going to be a very difficult episode for me at least.

This is something that, honestly, I've wanted to do for years, and I'm not a teacher by nature, so I'm not really the one to do this. But we're going to try to get into racism and anti-Semitism and the message, which is, it's quite honestly a very fascinating topic, but also very difficult because, as a person who was raised and indoctrinated in this, you know, I had no idea that I was that way, and then when I came to realize it was extremely difficult for me.

And I'm going to put the disclaimer out very early in the show. We've got different varieties of people who are watching and listening, and we have people who are in the message, who were indoctrinated this way, and people who are researching the message, and it's effects and mainstream Christianity, et cetera.

And if you are in the message currently, and you're listening to this show, this is probably not the show for you, because we're going to be fully examining the very horrific things that William Brannum said, and to be very open and honest, it's going to make you very angry.

And it's not something that's very easy to take, because of the way in which we're indoctrinated, you have to understand the bulk of the rest of the history surrounding what we're about to talk about today, before this even makes sense.

So I'm going to say if you're in the message, this probably isn't the podcast for you, and, you know, in the comment feeds, et cetera, if you disagree, it's not this episode that's going to convince you.

It's the historical... or information that comes after this in our podcast that really makes people understand what this is. If you're not in the message, you'll hear the things we're going to say and you'll be like, oh my gosh, they taught the people this and for that crowd, yeah, you're probably going to enjoy this because most people who are outside of the cult looking in have no idea that this is actually still taught today in churches and in schools that are controlled by the cult.

But Charles, I'll let you explain what it is we're going to talk through and we'll get deeply into this subject that honestly, for me, it's going to be very difficult to explain and I'm very glad that I have you to help me explain it.

Yeah, so in our last few episodes, we've been looking at the messages connections to Christian identity theology, to British Israelism and honestly to white supremacy groups and views and men, of course, like Gerald Winrod and Wesley Swift and in this episode, we want to take a little time to look specifically at how some of their anti-Semitic views influenced William Brownham and the message and now in general, John, I like you, I'd add a little disclaimer, I would not categorize the average message believer as being anti-Semitic because you know, a lot like the racial elements that we talked about, most people in the message

are kind of oblivious to the history of the ideology, they have no idea where this stuff came from. They think William Brownham got it in a divine inspiration from God, right? It's not even part of their understanding that this stuff was actually influenced by Nazi ideology via Christian identity theology.

So it's in the message, like you said, John, this will just blow people's heads if they listen to this. So yeah, this is probably not the best place to start if you're in the message.

First, you kind of need to wrap your mind around the people that William Brownham was actually associating with to understand where he got this stuff from. So I think one of the first place we should start really honestly is the very obvious stuff.

And one very obvious common thing that William Brownham did very, very frequently throughout his sermons was, William Brownham made a lot of anti-Semitic slurs against Jewish people. I mean, it was very common in his sermons.

And we could definitely share some quotes, but one really anti-Semitic thing he frequently said was he used the term hook-nosedew. That was a frequent term that William Brownham employed when talking about Jewish people.

He called them hook-nosedews. And another frequent anti-Semitic slur, William Brownham used was the word shister. He frequently called Jewish people. people shysters. And you'll find that running throughout his sermons as well. You'll find that that's also a term that's generally viewed as an isemitic when used towards Jewish people. And the truth is, those are just a couple examples of the very frequent anti-Semitic terms that William Brannum used. And I know, you know, the 1950s and the 1960s were a different era, but you know, even back then, John, people acknowledged that saying things like that was not appropriate, right? Like it's using words like that to describe Jewish people

was not okay back then either, right? Like it was definitely a feature of people with racist views towards Jews that use those terms. And so, so you have that. And then I think another very obvious thing when you look at William Brannum sermons is that you'll find that he perpetuated many different anti-Semitic stereotypes, especially the ones about money, right? William Brannum frequently told his audiences that the Jewish people controlled the wealth of the world. And in fact, I know the preachers in my sect of the message, they, we, I feel like in my sect, John, like we were, we were, we were dumb. We were very stupid about this stuff.

We felt like it was, I always felt like they were complementing the Jews when they said they had all the money. Is that how you felt about it? Like, like whenever they would get up there and they talk about it and they talk about the Jews controlling the world's wealth and control with Wall Street. Like to me, I thought, oh, they're complementing the Jews. But I don't think they was, John. You know, I learned by sheer accident that this was a derogatory thing that William Brannum was doing, complete accident. I was, um, and I'll pause and say this again. If you are

offended by these things that we're about to say as examples, this is not the show for you, I'm going to be very open honest and blunt about the things that are taught, said, and discussed in the message. But, um, one of the common things that I heard growing up in several of the churches was that whenever you were trying to basically, I'm using the word con loosely, but con people out of their money. In other words, you're, you get into some sort of a business transaction and you get the upper hand. And then somebody comes along and tries to swindle you out of money.

One of the common things that was said, I've heard it from ministers, I've heard it from family friends, et cetera, is again, this is awful. Jew people out of money. And I learned this by sheer accident. I mean, I was, again, I was raised from birth in this thing. I said these things, I heard these things. This was a very common thing. And when I got into the corporate environment, you cannot imagine the look of anger on the person's face. Who was a Jew who heard me say this?

And I learned right then that, wait a minute, there are some things that we were taught that I can't say in front of other people. And it really, you know, looking back, it really played tug of war with my mind because here are these things that is very common to our culture that's offensive to other cultures.

How am I supposed to win those people over to back then? It was win them over to Brannum. When Brannum is the one who's saying these things. And it's horrific. He used a lot of anti-Semitic language in his messages.

And, you know, like the thing about talking about, like William Brannum said so many times that the Jews controlled the world's wealth. But you know, things like that, it not only is it not, it's anti-Semitic, it's not even true, right?

It says, and these are things you learn through time, John. Like, I'm the same thing. So over time, you know, as you get older and you read and learn things, you realize, wait a minute.

These things that he's saying is just, these are just conspiracy theories. These are crazy conspiracy theories. And I looked before this, before we recorded this episode, just to see. And you can go out, there's a national wealth report that comes out every year.

Some foundation puts it out. And it's got all the world's religions listed in it. And all the Jewish people in the entire world only control about 1% of the world's wealth. Like, the Jews do not control the world's wealth.

Like, it's just a myth. But that's something that William Brannum would tell. And that's actually a big, one of the main stereotypes that anti-Semitic people use against Jews. Yeah, and it was a big part of clan propaganda.

That spread, you know, even today, I have been in discussion groups, et cetera, where people are talking about the Jews that are controlling Hollywood, the Jews that are controlling government. You know, it's very interesting because you have this group of hundreds, I mean hundreds of people with different varieties of race, culture, et cetera, who are also controlling.

But if there's one single Jewish person on the forum or on the group that is controlling, it's the Jewish person that they single out because it's not just William Brannum, the movement that he was a part of influenced the culture in America and that culture spread into a bazillion different conspiracy theories about Jewish people.

It's really a sad thing that those kind of myths go on. You know, I'll say a big lie. Another big lie that was in the message that has its roots in anti-Semitism is also some of the things that the message believed around the Holocaust, actually.

Yeah. You know, it's widely believed in the message. William Brannum taught this himself. I'll read you some quotes. You know, he taught that God wanted the Jewish people out of Europe, out of North America, basically, the Jews.

needed to be expelled from everywhere in the world and sent back to Israel, like that was a belief of William Brannum. And he taught that basically the Jews did not want to leave America and did not want to leave Europe because they had got wealthy and comfortable in those countries and that God sent the Holocaust and persecution and anti-Semitism in order to make those places uncomfortable so that the Jews would leave and move back to Israel.

That is a very clearly stated teaching of William Brannum and it's widespread in the message. And I'm going to make you laugh a little bit here and embarrass myself in front of the audience.

This was one of the homework items that you gave me Charles and while we were discussing privately and it was so deeply indoctrinated into my head that it was a good thing for all of the Jewish people to be, you know, concentrated back into one area and it was biblical times and it, I mean, this was a deeply rooted doctrine for me that even when we started talking through it, I was like, yeah, but it's, it's biblical, Charles, it's in the Bible, I can find that.

But then I've read one article that was talking about the discrimination and anti-Semitism and take Chinese people. Is it a good thing for the entire globe to persecute Chinese people and take everyone who has Chinese heritage or, you know, Chinese ancestry out of the United States, out of Canada, out of Mexico and then put them back in this little tiny location and say, this is your place.

It's, it's awful, but that's how deeply this was, you know, embedded into my being. Yeah, and it is along with quite a few things. If you take the actual practical implementation of the things that William Brannum a lot of him that he taught, the end result is covert segregation.

Like that is if you carry out a lot of his teachings to their logical conclusion, it, it, it brings about segregation, right? And so it's interesting, you know, that, that things like this that he focused on have the convenient side effect of, of implementing segregation, right?

Because that's really what, what the end result of it is. It's, it's separating out, um, races of people that the Jew, rather that the, the clan or the Nazis or these figures didn't like in separating them from the white people is, is, is what the end result to some of this stuff is.

And, you know, but, but the, the, really that thing that he would tell about the, the Jews getting comfortable in Europe and wanting to stay there and wouldn't go back to Israel, that's also a myth.

That is not true. Um, the Jews were desperately trying to get out of Europe leading up to the Holocaust. You know, I've got, I've got his, this is the history. Zionism. This is actually a very good book. It's by a man named Walter LaCourt wonderful book. If someone wants to read the history of Zionism The Jewish people were desperately trying to get out of Europe in the years leading up to World War Two and the Holocaust But nobody would take them. Yeah, nobody would take them. They and they tried to go to Israel. They petitioned. They begged to go to Israel and the government would not open up to permit them to immigrate to Israel, right?

So it's just not true that the Jews were comfortable in Europe and happy to live there and Did not want to get out before the Holocaust came like that's not true and and you know at the end of the day You know if if Jewish people want to move to Israel I think that's a wonderful thing, John You know we're I'm a huge supporter of the nation of Israel and that's one thing that the message is the message is A is huge supporters of the nation of Israel and on that aspect a lot of them will say

Well, we can't possibly be anti-Semitic because we are huge supporters of the nation of Israel But they don't realize all these other Things in their ideology that did come out of these anti-Semitic views through Christian identity theology We're gonna talk through some more But you know if Jewish people want to voluntarily move well, I think that's fine, right? But it's when When you think it's okay or necessary or even

Let me just read what William Brannum says about this how about that? Okay, let's let's read William Brannum's quote He says This is from the sermon the third Exodus from 1963 William Brannum says as it was in Germany and Up in to Russia and Italy the people raised up Joseph's and Hitler's Stalin Mussolini who hated the Jews They had to go back to their homeland God you always got ways of doing things that we don't understand and you press them No home in Germany everything taken from them also in Italy Russia no place to go and

They were sent back to their homeland just to fulfill the word oh the loving hand of God How sometimes it looks cruel the way the people suffer, but it's still the tender hand of Jehovah You know William Brannum, you know in context there he's referring specifically to the anti-Semitism to the Holocaust there John and In his terminology he refers to that as the tender hand of Jehovah, right?

so Throughout the message and this is universally almost universally believed everywhere that I know almost everyone that I know That God sent the Holocaust to persecute the Jews to make them go home and it was all it was all ordained to God just like William Brannum calls it there the tender hand of Jehovah Yeah, it's again, it was difficult for me to understand this um and I did come to the conclusion that the quote unquote tinder hand of Jehovah causing the Holocaust was a very, very racist thing long before we recorded this podcast, but you know, in the Da Vinci code, there's the guy that, you know, that beats himself and that that persecutes himself, there is a strong presence of this type of Christian who will listen to William Brandham statements about the tinder hand of Jehovah slaughtering

millions and millions of men, women and children, and they'll say, yes, this is the tinder hand of Jehovah, but what it does Charles, it paints a different picture of God, it's a very different God, it's not the Christian God, it's a God who slaughters the innocent, and that is the type of God that is presented in the message, and it's to the extent that when we left the message church and we began, you know, attending other churches, and I'm learning about the phrase, which is something that's almost never taught in the message, at least in the churches that I attended, and I start to understand that, wait a minute, God's not this, this horrific deity that loves to slaughter millions of people, I started to understand that, wait a minute, the Bible is not even the same Bible that I'm reading when I'm, you know, when I left this cult, it paint such a different picture of God, but yet people who are indoctrinated in this thing, believe in

this deity that is quite honestly, it's not much different than the gods of Bale that were, you know, people who are sacrificing their children to, so I, again, it was difficult for me to come to that realization, but that's how deeply rooted the anti-Semitism, the racism is in the message.

Yeah, you know, the Holocaust was a horrific thing, and to, and to suggest that, you know, God was behind the Holocaust, and not the devil, is just, it's terrible, but you will know where I don't, I mean, it's backwards, John, it's just backwards what the message honestly does with this.

Another funny thing that I'll tell you is, music is new to me, and there's this, the notion in music that if a music, if a song talks about a bad thing, it's a bad song.

This is deeply rooted into our ideology, and there's this song called sympathy for the devil by the rolling stones, and because it had the word devil in it, it took me years before I'd listen to the song, and when I finally understood its meaning, I was like, wow, that is, it's amazing.

It's talking about all of the things that, that the rolling stones of all people, you know, credited the devil for being behind, and, you know, it talks about world events like this, it started to make me realize.

that, wait a minute, even the rolling stones understood God in the devil better than William Brannum in the message. Yeah. And, you know, another thing in my sect, in my sect of the message, again, William Brannum taught this.

I know other sects believed it too, but generally, the message believes that the Jewish people by and large cannot be saved and become part of the church. That's a fairly, fairly widespread belief as well.

And William Brannum taught this, he taught specifically that God will not deal with Jews as individuals. That's something he very specifically taught, like Jews can't have personal relationships. You'll find him talking about that.

God does not deal with Jews as individuals. And he would say God only would deal with the Jews as a nation, right? Like he'd only deal with the, you know, if they go back to the land of Israel and then God will deal with them as a whole and save them as a whole.

And so he totally forbid any sort of evangelization towards the Jewish people. And let me read a quote where he says that, William Brannum, this is from the sermon Gabriel's instructions to Daniel, he says, so you see, God never did deal with the Jews.

I want you to keep this in mind as long as Israel. That's when I tried to tell this brother sitting over here that's talking about going to Israel. Stay away from Israel. Stay away from it.

All you people talking about converting the Jews. So he then goes on to say, before this message is over, you'll see, thus say, at the Lord by the Word and the Spirit, Israel will be converted over the whole nation in one night.

The Bible said so, but the gospel's not even to them. There's a few renegades that's out and so forth that come in and get saved outside of the main body. I believe that with all my heart, but remember, as long as Israel is out of their nation, they cannot be saved.

As long as Israel is out of their nation, they cannot be saved. So William Brannum set up this scenario whereby the Jews could ultimately end up being saved, but only once they are completely out of America and out of Germany and out all these countries and put back into the land of Israel, then they could be saved.

So the message takes, my sect takes this literally, and there was zero evangelization towards Jewish people. Any sort of evangelization towards Jewish people was openly and harshly condemned. You would be mocked and excoriated if they found out you're trying to do anything towards Jews.

And anybody that they ever found outside of our group that was doing any sort of efforts to evangelize Jews was just excoriated, John. That was one of the statements William Brannum made that I started to realize that this was in fact a different gospel.

It was not Christianity and another embarrassing thing for me, I'll mention. I went through classes after leaving the culture. alt, and one of the classes was what is the gospel. And it's honestly Charles almost didn't attend it because they asked me if I wanted to join. I said, I didn't know the gospel. And I said, OK, what is it? Embarrassingly, I made a fool of myself. And so I took the class and I understood, you know, there was an old covenant and the old covenant failed.

You know, so on and so forth. So God had to send the sun to, you know, die on the cross and then pay the penalty of the old covenant law and then enter us into a new covenant of grace. And you know, start to finish. I understood the Bible and it was at that point I reread the Bible. I lost count, but I want to say it was at least 10 to 12 times. I reread it, cover to cover to try to just wash all the stuff out of my head. And I started to realize

that, you know, a lot of these things were programmed into my head. I knew that William Brandham said the gospel was not to the Jews. I believed it. I believed when he said that he was the one. And I started, you know, like, like any good cult believer, you start to read, you know, scriptures from the Bible that are symbolism like revelation. And you start to plug the cult leader, the central figure into those. So when I talked about the two witnesses going out, I thought, well, that must be William Brandham. Who's the other one? And you know,

there are other ministers. I know who I've studied and heard them say that they believe they're one of the two witnesses. And so you start to plug yourself in this. But after hearing the gospel, understanding the gospel, there was a period of time in which people in the message would actually talk to me. It didn't last very long, but they did. And so I would ask them, what is the gospel? And you get a different answer from every single person. Many of them who claim to be Christian, who were devout readers of the Bible, and they would say gospel

is the power. It's the, you know, there were so many different answers that I got that were not in any way, shape, or form close to even resembling the gospel. And that's the point in which I realized that what William Brandham did was actually antibiblical. And he would, this specifically for the Jews, he's in direct conflict with Romans 116, where Paul says, I'm not ashamed of the gospel because it's the power of God into bringing salvation first to the Jew. So you've got William Brandham, the gospel is not to the Jew, and you've got the Apostle

Paul. It was first to the Jew. And remember Charles that alleged vision that he pledged your eyes from Clarence Larkin. He talks about seeing people in, in this underworld that's below heaven. And he says, he sees all of his people. And he says, but I preached the same message that Paul preached. Well, here's Paul saying the gospel is to the Jews.

and here's William Brannum saying, I disagree with the Apostle Paul. I choose the anti-Semitism route of the gospel. And we're going to exclude the Jew from our gospel. Right, you know, the Apostle Paul said the gospel is to the Jew first.

William Brannum says the gospel is not even to them, right? I mean, you can't get more, more opposite, right? And so, you know, and of course, some people in there will argue, well, you don't understand the context.

Oh, I absolutely understand the context. I live my whole life in this thing. So did you, John. I know exactly what William Brannum is saying here. I mean, we're here in Jeffersonville. I've known all the different people that knew him.

I mean, we know exactly what he was talking about here. William Brannum did not want the Jews preached to. He did not want them converted. He did not want them in the church. He wanted them in the land of Israel.

And then after that, he thought that he would go to Israel and convert them, you know, in a day more or less. This is what he thought, which again did not work out. And of course, all that was revised after he died into something else, because he's dead, right?

Either you got the return ministry people, or you've got other people who converted it over into two witnesses going to them, right? I know message theology like the back of my hand. And I can take you through every, you know, every different stream of it.

So I just want our listeners to know, we're not here in a, I don't know what the, I know exactly what the message taught. All right, that's what I, where I'm going at. And William Brannum was totally for the separation of Jews from everybody else.

We'll go on and get to really the end points of some of this stuff too. You know, Charles, I get accused a lot. You've probably seen it in the comments about people who are in the message.

And they say, well, you were never part of this. You never understood it. I listened to these tapes, you know, there were other kids that I grew up with that were reading comic books and watching television all the stuff.

I didn't have any of this for a good part of my life. We, like many message believers, we sometimes did, sometimes didn't. But the one thing that was consistent is every morning, every day during school, after school, in the evening, I listened to these recordings of William Brannum constantly.

I can almost quote entire sermons verbatim. So yeah, I know that these things were said and the difficult part for me is because I unfortunately brainwashed myself by doing this, by listening to these, it's a gift and a curse.

This stuff was in my head and it has taken years for me to wash this out of my head. Yeah, you know, the things I just said, for example, about, you know, message, like return ministry and things like that, you know, if you're outside of the message, you have no idea what I just said, right?

Because all of these things are loaded terms. But inside the message, I just said like a 20 sermons worth of stuff in like five sentences. Because as soon as you say those phrases, the people in the message have all been indoctrinated.

And when I say return ministry, there's a whole, I mean, that just sets off a whole bunch of stuff in these people's minds, right? So we can say, I try to not even use any of those phrases anymore, John.

But anyways, I said that for the sake of our message people. I know what we know what we're talking about. What's interesting is that, you know, I'm still trying to digest this. So we're in the early stages of it.

But we now have the overloaded language, the loaded language that when Rod used, I find it all sprinkled throughout William Brannum's sermons. And I'm still trying to grasp the concept that when William Brannum said communism, it was a loaded term for the people of white supremacy in this era that he was working with.

And that term meant, you know, it wasn't just that it meant Jewish people. It was like you mentioned return ministry, say return ministry. If you're not in this cult and have never been, imagine it as though it's a book entitled return ministry and cover to cover, somebody has read this book a thousand times.

And when you say return ministry, everything in that book comes into their head. Well, when William Brannum says communism, every single thing that was indoctrinated by Roy Davis, when Rod Upshaw, I mean, the list goes on and on.

All of these men that are working with him, communism was specifically referring to the Jews, however, it was this entire theology of anti-Semitism that, you know, came into their head when he said the word communism.

Right. You know, when, when you look at the message, you know, some of the teachings, you could chalk up to, you know, the historic anti-Semitism and historic Christianity, right? I mean, anti-Semitism did not enter Christianity in the 1940s and 50s with William Brannum.

I mean, it's been, there has been anti-Semitic streams of Christianity for hundreds and hundreds of years. So, you know, some of it, you can chalk up to the historic anti-Semitism, but there's other things in William Brannum sermons that indicate he had specifically been influenced by the anti-Semitism of Nazism and Christian identity theology, right?

So Martin Luther, for example, who was anti-Semitic, did not believe Jews were communists, right? Yeah. They're what, that didn't exist back then. That is a creation of Nazi propaganda. It came into the message of a Christian identity theology.

And yeah, William Brannum absolutely bought into the conspiracy that communism was a Jewish plot, a Jewish conspiracy. Let me read a quote to that effect. William Brannum says this in his 1963 sermon, The Uniting, Time, and Assign.

He says, The Jews. The Jews united themselves against Jesus as their Messiah. Therefore we see what happened. We see the same thing happening now, communism uniting to destroy the church, right? William Brannum bought into that conspiracy theory, John, and if you look at his sermons, you'll find that many times he tells us that he compares communists, Jew, Jew communists, he goes back and forth, and you know how much he preached on communism.

Like everybody knows how much he preached on communism, my goodness, right? And it turns my stomach, honestly, looking back to think that he may have been talking about Jews every time he talked about communism. I mean, that just turns my stomach.

But it is very clear that quite a number of times when he was talking about communism, he was definitely inferring that it was a Jewish plot. And you know, it, communism's a terrible thing. It sure is. I mean, the communism is not a Jewish conspiracy.

I mean, that is just utterly ridiculous. And where does that come from? Where does that idea come from? It comes from Nazi propaganda. That is where that idea comes from. It was imported into Christian identity theology.

And that's the kind of thing that Gerald Winrod was preaching. That's the kind of thing wisely swift was preaching. And William Brannum would have had to have picked it up somehow in that, you know, in connection to those things. Goodness.

Now that we know that he was doing this and now that we know specifically that the men that he was working with was doing this, for me, this becomes even more disgusting. Because think about this, Charles. William Brannum is going to the groups of people that will support his revivals. And that includes a large number of people that were not anti-Semitic.

So when he's speaking to those crowds, he can openly say communism. And they just think, okay, he's talking about communism. And that's a very horrific theme, you know, especially during the 50s and 60s, during the communist scares. But think about the other side of the coin.

He is also going to groups that entertain him because he is a part of this Nazi conspiracy. And we're going to continue to solidify that research. But he's part of this thing. All of the men that he's working with is when he is in that same church that is, you know, in the same ideology, when he says communism to them, it means an entirely different thing.

And the part where it becomes problematic for me, Charles, there is a point in time in which mainstream Christianity fully knew that William Brannum was racist. After he preached Serpent Seed, he even mentions 300 ministers rising up against him. And so they cut him off.

He started to lose all of that support. Well, who is he left with? He is left with these scattered churches that are quite frankly many of them. I even know some of them are extremely racist.

So when he's speaking the things that I hear from 1960, what is it, approximately 1960 to 1965, I went back and read those after we discovered this and oh my gosh, he is fueling the fires that grew out of those very racist individuals and sermon, you know, individuals and peoples and it angers me, Charles.

Yeah, yeah, it is, when I went back and there's still some more stuff here we're gonna read through, but there is certain things, John, and you know, when I was looking at these quotes, I said, I'm gonna throw up, I've got to walk away.

Because when you're in the message, somehow you are completely blind to this stuff. But when you start thinking clearly and you look back,

it makes you wanna throw up. I mean, it made me wanna throw up looking at some of the things that at least some of the things I'll read here, but let me go to another thing too.

So, you know, as you realize, William Brannum is not just sharing historic views about Jews in his sermon from Christianity, he is sharing views that developed within Nazi ideology and Christian identity theology. He's sharing modern anti-Semitic views in his sermons.

And as you go through, let me give you another Nazi conspiracy theory that actually, that he shared many times, many times. And there's a book that William Brannum talked about reading. Lots of times on tape, I'll read it to you in this quote.

And I'm really thankful. I wanna say too, I'm very thankful for Rebecca Brannum and George Smith. They put out the series of magazines, John. This is only believed magazine. And in this one, for example, they catalog all the pictures of books that's in William Brannum's library, for example.

And if you notice that picture right there, you know what, probably right about there. Is that a shelf, right? Yeah, so I have painstakingly collected many, many of the books from William Brannum's library.

I did this while I was still in the message because I was very curious. But I'm very thankful to George Smith and Rebecca Brannum for putting these things out because if they hadn't done this, John, a lot of this stuff, it wouldn't be so clear, so easily pieced together for me.

So I really think they were doing the work of God when they put those magazines out for us. I know several people who escaped the message because of the work that George and Rebecca have been doing.

George Smith, Rebecca Brannum Smith. I also, right before I left the message, I discovered that William Brannum was not under the cloud, you know, the message cloud that you see hanging in the churches.

And when I discovered this, I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Did they know? And that was what sealed the deal for me. When I saw that magazine of Rebecca, George and Rebecca, you know, clearly saying, no, there's no way that William Brannum was under the cloud.

out. I was like, okay, these people knew. And it was at that point, I realized that I'm in something that they're, they're toying with my mind. And that's when I left. So like you, I'm, I'm extremely thankful for them. I don't understand why they have removed those from, from public access.

Yeah. Yeah. So Rebecca is passed away now. And I, like I said, like you said, John, the stuff around the cloud and the seals, that is the thing that sealed the deal for me.

Like when I saw that, I'm like, oh my goodness, like there's no way to salvage this, you know, once, once you see that, if you know message theology, that is such a pivotal thing. I look forward to when we get to a full episode of the month, probably going to be months from now, honestly.

That's near the end of his ministry. But yeah, that, it's actually that too, which woke me up, I'm like, oh my goodness, the message, the message is broke beyond repair when, when you found out that that was a hoax. And yeah, I'm, I'm very thankful Rebecca published that before she passed away.

Yeah. William Brown is a daughter. And yeah, otherwise, I don't think we would know pieces of this that we have. So, and she was very open. She was very open that William Brown was, had misled us on all that stuff. So I really appreciate that from her. And yeah, so going back anyways, we have pictures of all the books in his library. We know the things that he read. And there is a, there is a Nazi conspiracy theory called the stab in the back. This is a Nazi theory about how the Germany lost World War One. The Nazis invented this conspiracy, John. This is a Nazi conspiracy.

And William Brannum shared it in his sermon dozens and dozens and dozens of times, if you go, look, let me read. And here's one. He tells us where he got it from. This is from the 1954 sermon, the seal of God. He says, there went a great ruler for a World War One first time in all world's history, a world war. Where was he starting for? Right straight into Germany. What happened?

Strange. No one knows till this day how it stopped. How the war stopped. Nobody knows. He says, read decline of the world war. Every volume. I've read it. There is not one person. The only thing they know is they're come forth surrender. No one knows who gives it. And if you, if you look, Nazi propaganda, they basically say, no one knows how World War Two ended. It must have been a Jewish conspiracy, right? Like this is, this is a World War One conspiracy theory that was invented by the Nazis. So William Brannum is repeating Nazi conspiracies in his sermons, okay, about Jewish

people. And he even there tells us where he got the stuff from. He says the book was decline of the World War, but actually from the pictures of his library, the book is called Decline of the West. He got the title wrong. But it's by Oswald Sprangler, who is a one of the most prominent Nazi propagandist writers of all time, John.

Yes. He's telling us in his sermons that he is reading Nazi propaganda, okay? And if you look, he references that book and shares lots of stuff out of that book on tape. And that's where he got his, you know, to share that conspiracy theory about

how World War I mysteriously ended. It's unbelievable. When you shared that with me, I'll be honest Charles, I didn't believe you. I thought in my head, I've known these anti-Semitic statements for years. And I just thought, you know, it's William Branum it's different era than us.

And yes, I knew that there were people who knew back then it was extremely awful. But I thought I just assumed it was him just making statements that he thought would appeal to the crowd.

But when you said that, I started reading that, quotes from that book and learning about the men who wrote it and its influence and especially during Nazi Germany. I thought there's no way this can be real.

But the deeper I dug, Charles, I'm in full agreement with you. This not only was he referencing for this particular statement that you're about to read, but Charles, the entire message, that was, I mean, this was called a Nazi book of prophecy.

Oh my gosh, Charles, when I started applying this book and what it's saying to William Branum's prophecies, his Doomsday, his end of day scenarios, he was literally propagating the contents of this book to his American audience.

Right, and William Branum tells us on tape he had all of Oswald Sprangler's books, John. Like not just those ones. And those ones aren't the worst ones. My goodness. I mean, he, I don't even know if we should say some of the stuff that's in these books, but one of them is the main, it's called the Hour of Decision.

And that book is primarily about how Germany needs a revolution to save the world from the peril of other races intermingling and destroying white culture, basically. That's the kind of stuff that Oswald Sprangler was writing in his books.

It's awful. And to the people who are researching you, if you go and you search the transcripts for the author's name or the book name, William Branum deceptively changed the name of the book.

You have to really read the book and understand it and study it and study the history surrounding the book to understand that now he's talking about this book. He doesn't mention the author's name, he gives a false name for the book and it just blows my mind to think this was all part of a Nazi conspiracy.

Right, and we can actually validate it to that book, you know, there's play. is where he tells on this page in that volume find this thing and you can match it up perfectly. He's talking about Oswald Sprangler's books. So there's no question. So yeah, he's directly incorporating Nazi propaganda and it's not just conspiracy theories, John. He actually uses this and I won't go through these quotes, but he uses Nazi propaganda to inform his interpretations of End Time prophecy. I'll say one thing. He talks about the 11th hour people, the 11th hour people, a lot, through some of his sermons. If you want to go look, go look, but the 11th hour people,

that is the code word for the Jews, right? And the 11th hour people in the Nazi propaganda, that's the Jews, right? And he will, it's sick, John, when you go look at the stuff that he tied to that stuff. So anyways, you know, another thing that came out of William Brownham's teachings is that William Brownham and the message generally believe that the end of day's scenario will play out when the Jews will sell out to the Antichrist, basically. The Jews will sign a deal with the Antichrist, give the Antichrist all their money, who is the Catholic Pope, right? And that will then bring

on the end of day's scenario, right? So the message and William Brownham believe that the Jews

play an important role in bringing on the end of days, basically. And that goes a lot to with them, one, you know, the desire for them to move back to Israel, so that they can ultimately fulfill the end of day's scenario by selling themselves out to the Antichrist. That's really what the message believes, yeah. That was the one that honestly blew my mind and blew the whole lid off of this, because that was exactly what Gerald Winrod was saying. And you can, you know, I went into a deep dive in the newspapers. There are thousands of articles about him, so it's

difficult, but he had this 1933 prophecy about Mussolini, who was rising in power, and he believed that Mussolini was the Antichrist, and he was going to, you know, bring the Jews against the United States. There was this whole end of day's scenario that he was playing out. And then William Brownham says that he's almost arrested for talking about, you know, the end of day's scenario that involved Mussolini. Well, whenever I start to piece this together, oh my gosh, he is literally taking Nazi conspiracy, converting it into quote unquote the message. And then that becomes the basis, the foundation for his alleged 1933 prophecies. And he got it directly

from from Winrod and the Nazi conspiracy. Right. And William Brownham did this thing too, where he He put like the Jewish people into categories, right? So there is the what he called the natural Jew, and then there's what he called the spiritual Jew. And the natural Jews are all going to be cannon fodder. And the spiritual Jews will get, you know, in some way go to heaven. I say in some way, because William Brown, they never were going to be equal. And so he believed that as time rolled on, you know, and the Jews returned to their homeland that the natural Jews

would sell themselves out. We called them in our message, John, in our sect of the message. We called them the political Jew is what our ministers call them. So the political Jews would sell out to the an eye Christ. And then, and William Brown preached this in the fifth seal, and he preached this several other times too, that after, after this, there would be a second holocaust. You know, the message actually believes in prophesied by William Brown, and that there's going to be a second holocaust. And this is part of the end of day scenario. And in the second holocaust, all of

these political or natural Jews will be sadly wiped out. I mean, William Brown, this is a key part of his teaching in the fifth seal, right? And, and you know, where I come from, John, I know some of them will say, well, there's one part of the fifth seal that's unique, and they're talking about that part, you know, because that part didn't come from Clarence Larkin.

Right, it came from Nazi propaganda. I mean, it's worse. It's worse. I mean, it's worse for that stuff came from. Yeah. And, you know, I'm still in the early stages of digesting the doctrines of Wesley Swift, but Swift also had the end of day scenario where there was coming a another slaughter. And it was, he included the Jewish race and the blacks into the same slaughter. And so there was this end of day scenario where the members of white supremacy in the nation were arming themselves, preparing for the coming war. And this led to all kinds of horrific movements in

US history. I mean, you study, you study white supremacy in the 60s, you'll get the idea of what I'm talking about. Well, William Brannum joined into that. He mentions Martin Luther. And he says Martin Luther is going to lead his people to the slaughter. So he is not just taking the Nazi propaganda from Winrod. He's actually taking Swift's take on this Nazi propaganda, mixing it together. And he's creating a quote unquote message that's leading up to a end of day scenario where there is a race war. And we have to basically arm ourselves and become militant. Charles

think of the sheer number of people in the message who arm themselves and become militant. Yeah, it's a massive amount of people, John, maybe even the majority, you know. And you know, There is historic church teachings about this stuff, right?

And William Brannum takes historic teachings on this stuff, but he is mixing in these anti-Semitic Nazi ideas just like Wesley Swift did, John. And, you know, I'm convinced honestly that that's where this stuff came from is through William Brannum's, you know, having access to the materials from Wesley Swift.

I really believe that's where this stuff comes from. Let me, let me read a couple quotes about this, how William Brannum believes the Jews will empower the anti-Christ. So he says, and he makes a covenant with the Jews.

This is from the first seal, the first seal. This is like one of William Brannum's, in the message, this is one of the most important sermons William Brannum ever preached. In my sect, that's certainly, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is the most important.

Yes. Yeah, he says, and he makes his covenant with the Jews. And the midst of this, three and a half years, he breaks his covenant, he's talking about the anti-Christ. And as soon as he gets things wrapped up and gets the money from the Jews tied up, right?

When he does this, oh my, he's called the anti-Christ until the end of the church age. So, you know, William Brannum is teaching that the Jews will give all their money to the anti-Christ and empower him to destroy the world.

He says here again, in 1963, another sermon, oh Lord, just once more, he says, and what will it do? He's peaking about the Jewish people. He says, it'll sell its birthright straight into Catholicism.

Then what are you going to do? That's the gold of the world, them and the Jews. And that's the covenant he made with Israel. So, again, William Brannum is just saying that the Jews are going to team up with the Pope and bring on the end of day scenario, right?

Which is Christian identity theology. That is Wesley Swift's Christian identity theology. That is not part of historic Christianity. There is no stream of theology besides Christian identity theology, which taught that John. That is out of Christian identity theology, which is a merger of British Israelism and Nazism.

That's where that came from. And it all predates William Brannum by a few decades. That's where he got that stuff. And it's ridiculous. The Catholics and the Jews do not control the world's gold.

I mean, it's just, William Brannum is saying stuff there that it cannot possibly be correct, right? I mean, it's, this is just nonsense conspiracy theories. Yeah, and in the message, they take, there was apparently a doctrine that was to be introduced to the people.

And then there was a doctrine surrounding this that William Brannum basically constrained only to the elites. My grandfather was part of this. And after William Brannum died, little nuggets of, they called them nuggets, little nuggets of, information would go out into sermons, just they would not tell you the whole thing, they would just give you bits and pieces and they'd call it a nugget.

And people were with itching ears, eager to hear these little nuggets they called them. And one of them was that the United States actually had no money, the Jews controlled all the money. And Rome is the one who housed all the money.

And my grandfather even mentioned this whenever he was preaching in the tabernacle, he would say that you can go down to Fort Knox and Fort Knox is empty. What you see on the news when they show these bars of gold, it's all a facade, it's fake, there's absolutely no money in Fort Knox.

And then he would tie it to the Nazi conspiracies. And then after the service, the people who were again in the inner circle, they would talk about how they witnessed some train, you know, hijacking or whatever and there was supposed to be some gold bars on it and they were stolen and further fueling the communists, the Roman, the not the Jewish conspiracies, right?

Well this thing was privately talked about after William Brandham died, little pieces of it became introduced into some of the key figures in the message into their churches. Now if you wanted to some little tiny church in the hills of Tennessee, maybe not, but the people who were with William Brandham who were in that inner circle, if you attended their churches, you heard all of this stuff.

And this stuff is nuts. And the people who believe this, you're a nut, I hate to say, you're a nut, you believe this stuff. There's John, you know, we live, I live 25 miles from Fort Knox.

I know people who work in Fort Knox, you know that, guess what, the gold is still in there. It's good. I mean watch James Bond, man, you can see the gold in Fort Knox.

Right. And the Jews of the Catholics don't control the world's gold. I mean, it's, I believe communist China controls the majority of the gold. So you got to throw some comments in here instead of talking about you, you know what I mean?

They have the majority, the largest percentage of world gold as far as I believe at the present day anyway. I could be mistaken. It's been a little while since I've looked into that stuff.

I actually took a deep dive in that because the specific statements made by the inner circle was that all the gold was in the Catholic church. And then when you tie communism to it, you're tying the Jews to the Catholic church.

And so the Jews were part of this. I did a deep study on just Rome and the Catholic church. And there was a period of time in which they suffered financially. So there's no way that all the gold is in the Catholic church.

Yeah. You can look all of this stuff up. You can look up how much the Catholic church is worth. You can look up how much the Jewish wealth is worth. It's... is it is it's tiny John the it's just it's it's it's nothing compared to the wealth of the world. It's very very small in in global terms. Let me get get to just a couple more things before we wrap up. One, I want to read this illustration that William Brannum used very frequently in his sermons too. This is the one where I started to read this and I realized how many times he did this. This is the

one that made me feel sick, John. William Brannum used this illustration. I'm about to read dozens of times. He had this sermon that he preached and through his campaigns he tended to preach the same sermons over and over and over and over again. He changed the title or adjust them a little bit. This one he preached dozens of times and it's basically it goes up to the point that you know Jesus knocks on the door of your heart and you need to let him in.

Like and that's where the sermon kind of that's one of the key parts of the sermon and the sermon title is usually something about the door opening a door or knocking at a door. Well in this lead up to Jesus coming and knocking on your door, let me read what William Brannum would do. He would say what a privilege it would have been for a peasant in the days of Adolf Hitler in Germany, the furor of Germany. If he would have went down to a poor man's house and would have knocked at the door and the man would went to the door and

raised up the curtain and looked and the furor of Germany the great Hitler stood at his door, the ruler, the dictator of Germany. He would say well I'm not worthy that such a man like that would knock at my door. Do you mean Hitler wants to speak to me a peasant? Why he would throw open the door and fall on his face and say Hitler enter my home. Sure anything that's here is yours great furor of Germany. Certainly he would have been happy to have done not only that but he would have been honored to have done it to think that

Hitler would come to his door. That's from the 1957 sermon I stand at the door and knock but so that's that's a very disturbing to read John isn't that disturbing? It's it's awful Charles I'm holding back such a rant I just anger me. What's even more disturbing John and I'll let you rant is that and I'm not going to go on to read this he then goes on to say just like you've let Hitler in you need to let Jesus into your heart.

Like it's he starts off letting in Hitler and then he transitions to letting in Jesus. I mean what kind of a sick disturbing thing is that? It I just still can't believe it Charles this this was deeply rooted in my program. I remember going into houses of message believers and seeing you've seen it too the photo of Jesus standing at the door and knocking and behold I stand at the door and knock this was sermon themes coast to coast and you know how it is in the message whenever they preach about a bible topic they don't preach about the bible topic they preach about what the quote

quote, profit said about the Bible topic. So every single one of these sermons and every single one of these churches that I attended from coast to coast, when they had their behold, I stand at the door and knock sermon. It was about what William Brannum said about this. And then to learn that he is actually comparing Hitler, the most vile, the most horrific villain in world history, Charles. He's comparing that man to Jesus Christ in that sermon. I am so angry. I'm just, I'm holding back, but I can't believe that this was part of my indoctrination. I can't believe that

my parents let me sit in this. I can't believe that even still today, there are children being manipulated to believe that Hitler was equated to Jesus Christ standing at the door and knocking. There are schools that teach this, Charles. There's a school here locally where these message kids are being programmed to believe these things that William Brannum said, where they give them these tapes and they make them, you know, get out to buy themselves and listen to these things. And I have to stop the rant. But to think that we were manipulated to equate Jesus Christ

with Hitler, anger's me to no end. It disturbs me, John. Like when I looked at that and I realized, like he didn't just do it once. He did that dozens of times, dozens of times in those sermon.

I mean, it's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. I mean, yeah, well, your rant said it all. You know, I think we can understand why William Brannum sermons appealed to Nazis because he was saying nice things about Hitler in them. Yeah. William Brannum said nice things about Hitler in a sermons, John.

Sadly, a lot. My, what is wrong? What has done me? How in the world? I like, when you're in the, I did not know until I looked at this the other day, I did not grasp that that was there. So one last thing here, John, one last thing I want to point out before we wrap up this episode is, what's the end state of all this? Like what, what does the message believe the ultimate destiny of, of the Jewish people are? Let me, let me read again. Let's look at what William Brannum taught on this. This is from the sermon, the 10 virgins and the 144,000 Jews. This is the sermon.

William Brannum says in here, I'll just read one little section. This is not out of context. He says the Gentile is not a servant. It's a bride. It's a son. That is the son, the church is.

The Jews are the servants. Repeat. The Jews are the servants. John, we believe Christian identity theology in the message. That's where this stuff comes from. And if you look at this sermon in the same sermon he also goes through, we're just kind of focusing on anti-Semitism here But he goes through and he talks about the heathens, the non-white races also being the same category. They will be the servants Let me jump down a little further and that's that sermon and I'll read another section He says, but this class will never be with that class That's the bride and you notice the bride is with him in the temple the others labor and

Bring their glory into the kingdom, but the bride is with the bridegroom continually the others will never be allotted Like these down here. They will serve. So John William Brannum is teaching Christian identity theology This is not anywhere in historic Christianity. This is the teachings of Wesley Swift This is stuff out of Gerald Winrods writings He is teaching that Jews and non-whites will be in a state of perpetual servitude in the heavenly kingdom. All right, this is exactly what William Brannum's teaching my sect of the message John had very elaborate drawn out teachings on this and again generally the word black and Jews omitted

But again, it goes back to these things William Brannum clearly taught this in his sermons like we don't have to It takes zero reading into this to what William Brannum is saying. He is clearly saying That these people are going to be servants to the bride of Christ to the message believers for Forever Yeah, there's a large number of people who are in the message and it's plenty of groups that aren't aware that the Servant theology was a thing, but Anybody who was in William Brannum's inner circle, they had the servant theology deeply rooted into not just their racist ideologies, but in their threats

My grandfather is no exception to this rule There are there are many people who know my grandfather who believe him to be the most humble Genuinely loving man and he was a very good man if you were on his good side There are a large number of people while I a smaller number of people who have escaped the cult and they escaped because they saw the other side For example, there are women who were Physically abused in the message their husbands were beating them and William Brannum Instructed their husbands to beat them there are several quotes about beating your wife with a barrel slad and

One horrific quote he talks about two by fours grab a board and beat your wife if she's not It angers me too, but there are women who approached my grandfather who were being physically abused and This this was part of the theology if you leave your husband you've divorced him and you're the one who's sending and If you marry another, you're doomed to hell and then there were there were people who if they did divorce and marry another and still attended my grandfather's church Who came back and tried to you know talk through they're very very

Sad situation my grandfather would tell him tell them you must leave your current husband and and If and only if your husband will take you back you might be a servant to the bride I mean that's how awful this was it wasn't just my grandfather that taught this so in the inner circle there was it's it's stupid when I think about it, but there was this This conspiracy theory of heaven that I think it originated with William Brannum You can find testimonies with people saying that this what came from a Dream or some vision of William Brannum that he told in private about heaven being all of the the

Houses in heaven were actually rooms in a pyramid So everybody was in this pyramid structure and at the top was Jesus and then you know the heads of the message were in the You know the tear above this then you had the rank and file members will below this You had the Mongols you had the Jews you had the wives who had left an abuse of spouse and divorced and Remarried those are the people who are the servants to this big tear of a pyramid and I knew this growing growing up I didn't know it to the extent that I did after I left the message

But I knew bits and piece of it because I would be sitting in sermons or We even around Easter here when everybody congregates to watch William Brannum rise up out of his grave They would hold these testimony meetings and I would listen with awe as these guys would talk about the weird things that Brannum said Thinking I was collecting these not quote unquote nuggets. Well part of the nuggets were the slaves that were going to It angers me man, but the slaves that were going to serve us in heaven and And as a child this this really creates a distorted view of Christianity when you think you're going to a place where you're going to have servants

That's awful Charles Yeah, and you're so right there John in my sect of the message This stuff was very elaborate. I mean Raymond Jackson Tought this in spades, you know went into deep explanation of how all this was worked Yeah, there there is and it all goes back you you can just for example read that sermon The 10 virgins and 144,000 Jews. I mean William Brannum spells it out in that sermon There is going to be in his views which is Christian identity theology There's going to be a stratified hierarchy in heaven and you're exactly right describing it appear mid structure, you know at the top is

the message believer, and then below are all the other subcategories who were servants to the people above them. And William Brannem even taught that the pagan heathens would not be destroyed, that the pagan heathens would be permitted to come in and be basically the lowest tier of servants in this thing, right?

He said that in that sermon, the 10 Virgins of 144,000 Jews. And remember the heathens, Charles was the code word for people with black skin. Yes, and it's very clear that's who he's talking about.

I mean, and he, he very different times it was very explicit in what he's saying. And he, this stratified control, like, this, in my sector of the message, what, what they did is they further develop this into what all the requirements are to get into all of these different categories.

And, and honestly, when you just step back, John, I mean, I don't think the Bible teaches that pagans are going to be saved, okay? Like it's, it's hard to pull, you know what I mean?

But, but William Brannem taught, um, you didn't have to accept Christ to be saved, actually. And he taught this in lots of categories of people, right? And these people would still come into the, they, like he said, they would not be in the temple with the bride, but they would be servants.

Uh, you've heard, I mean, there's that racist rant by, uh, what's his name down and happy valley? I won't say his name, but he talks about that in those quotes. The people outside the city, these are the servants to the people in the city, to the message believers, right?

This is the teachings of the message. And this stuff is still taught public. I mean, that guy got in the news, John. His rant made national news in the United States when he was ranting about no interracial marriage and the people outside the city, you know, uh, yeah.

Take it even a step further, Charles, William Brannem was the foundation for many horrific things in Americanized Christianity and even some, to some extent, world. So you've got William Brannem and the healing revivals.

You've got the ladder rain movement that was created from this. So I'm building up the tiers of, of this thing that's built on top of Nazi ideology. Then all of that splintered. And if you study the new apostolic reformation, every single spider web that came out branched out from this, they can claim at the root of it, William Brannem and his healing revivals.

Well, they have become also in the news recently for their militant positions against different, you know, government leaders and ideologies. And if you take the thread of quote unquote scriptural references that they pull, they're actually basing it on William Brannem's theology.

And if you follow it to its origins, it is literally coming from this Nazi ideology. So, in effect, you have the new apostolic reformation, the ones who are really deep into restorationism, who believe that they're going to just eradicate the quote unquote evil that, and don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of many politicians.

But the evil that is there, they think they're going to kick them all out, they're going to create this reformation where they're going to very militantly kick them out. And establish this new hierarchy, all of this is based on this Nazi ideology.

Yeah, it is, it's this is crazy stuff, John. And I will say,

in that national news story, the message pastor was called the most racist preacher in America. So, I believe, John, at present, the title most racist preacher in America belongs to a message preacher, as far as I know. I've actually kept track of it to see if it ever changed, and it still has not changed. He is still. So, Shemita has labeled him the most racist pastor in America. Yeah, and so, this is the message. So, again, we're not the only one saying this, and here's the thing, the people who were listening to those statements, they didn't even comprehend

half of the loaded language that he used in that sermon. We're explaining it to you here, if you, if you, if you're, if you're listening. So, one, one thing I do want to say, John, as a kind of a final disclaimers, again, I do not believe the average message believer is anti-Semitic. And I suspect that a whole lot of people have no idea that William Brandham even said these things, because I don't know about you. I never heard our message preachers using the let Hitler knock on the door of your heart quotes. So, you know, they're, they have

enough sense not to repeat those quotes, right? Yeah. You know, even myself, again, I'm mortified that I have offended people, and every time I get a chance, I apologize to them, but I even, I would not consider myself anti-Semitic. What I will say is I was indoctrinated to say things that were anti-Semitic. So, there are things that I would say not just anti-Semitism, but racism.

There are things that I would say if I were around a certain crowd that excluded the target audience of my horrific things. There are things that I said that were commonly said in the message. It, it wasn't just that my family was unique, and we said these things, and we had this racist family that I was raised in. This came from the message. This came from William Brandham himself.

I personally had never heard my parents say many of the things that I said that were horrific. I heard them because I was constantly listening to these sermons of William Brandham constantly. So, I indoctrinated myself to be...

this way, but I was not anti-semitic. I was just programmed to say things that were anti-semitic, if that makes any sense. Right. You know, in the message we love Israel. Israel gets unconditional support from people in the message. And anything Israel wants to do, especially as it relates to fulfilling the anti-proficies, Israel gets unconditional support from message believers. So on one side, the message is incredibly pro-Israel, and in some incredibly pro-Jew, you know.

But there are these things that have crept into message and time teachings that actually have the roots in Nazi propaganda, which was imported to the message via Christian identity theology. And really, there just is no question when you step back. William Brannum was using anti-semitic slurs. He was promoting anti-semitic stereotypes. He was promoting anti-semitic conspiracy theories, and he was baking those things into his end of day's teachings.

And whether people realize it or not in the message, those things have colored the way the message looks at Jewish people. And so I think that's the note I'll end on, John. Yeah. I don't know that I have a good note to end on because I'm still processing this.

I'm still a little bit angry that this was, I'm angry as a father that my children were raised in this. I'm very fortunate that two of my kids are young enough that when we laugh that they don't remember it, but I have one who remembers this and his words, Charles, were, I'm so glad that we, how did you say it? I'm so glad that we left this guy screaming like Hitler. And I mean, think about it. William Brannum, the structure of his sermons even matched the structure of Hitler's speeches. He would start out very calm, reserved, and

then just a barrage of screaming, a barrage of hate. It wasn't a message that was uplifting. They were sermons that were specifically targeting people, individuals, ideologies, anybody basically who disagreed with him, he would scream at them. And we thought this was quote unquote love. And I mean, for me to wrap this up and without exploding into another rant, all I can say is, after reading the Bible as many times as I have, you start to read personalities.

When you start to read different individuals who are writing the books, you can, you can kind of see this person writes differently than this person. There's a very human element to this. And these aren't people that would do what William Brannum is doing. These are not people that would just parade people with hate. And that's what William Brannum did.

If you wore, you know, clothes that weren't the Pentecostal style clothes, he's screaming like those people. Charles, there's not a single person who will take an insult, who is being berated by another person, and then suddenly decide, oh, I love this person, and I want to do what he says.

There's not a single person that does this, not one. This is a manipulation tool to corral the people who are under your control. This is not to entice the people outside of your control to come into your control.

It is literally walls around a people so you can contain them and keep them acting in the way in which you want. This is not a message of Jesus Christ in any way, shape, or form.

I guess that's how I'll in this rant. Yeah, William Brannum has mixed these really evil ideas into Christianity. And it is not healthy to have a belief that you are racially superior to others and that others will be your servants forever, and all this stuff.

I mean, this is ladies and gentlemen, please do not let Hitler into your hearts. And if Hitler comes knocks on your door, and you have an opportunity to off him, you would have been doing the world a great favor.

Yeah, so there you go. Now, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-brannum.org and www.ChristianGospelChurch.org.

For an overview of the historical research of William Brannum and the healing revivals, read preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William Brannum in his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Join us again next week. We've got a great episode coming.