William Branham's 1933 Visions ... Debunked

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.org. Together we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Branham and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals.

Charles I think today is the episode that all of our friends in the New Apostolic Reformation research area, and as well as the many people who are now helping us to work with people who are in the message cult of following a William Branham to understand it, deprogram, and escape. I think today's episode is the most vitally important to their work, and I think I'm going to preface this entire show by saying that if you're one of our listeners who are still in the message and still believe the message, this is probably not the episode for you, because we're going to, you know,

take a deep dive into the core of what it means whenever William-Branham is either claiming or people working with him are lifting him up to be, there's a question as to which happened, the prophet messenger of our age, and I'm going to say that if you are in the message and you are not on the leaning post or the fence looking over the other side, this is probably not the episode for you, you probably want to skip it, but if you are in the message and you're, you know, thinking about attending a different church that's not in the cult of personality or if you're a researcher in this area,

this is probably going to be one of the most important episodes that we have done on this show. Yeah, you know, today, John, we are going to talk about the most famous and most well-known prophecies of William-Branham's ministry, and in the message we would call...

them the 1933 prophecies, or the 1933 visions. And both inside and outside of the message, these are William Brannum's most well-known prophecies. You'll hear them quoted sometimes by TV preachers on TVN. You'll still hear these things on television today by well-known preachers quoting these prophecies.

Charismatic preachers will quote them and refer to them quite a bit, especially the ones who regard William Brannum as a great prophet. And today we just want to take some time to walk through those prophecies.

And there are a lot of great resources online too. If you want to go even deeper than we're probably going to go today, your website, John, has a deep dive into these prophecies. The believe the sign has a great set of articles on these prove the claims website has a great set of information on these.

So there's really some excellent information out there, analyzing and debunking these prophecies. If you want to get a book on it, there's actually even books on this. Peter Dyser's Legend of the Fall has a whole section in there where he walks through those prophecies, the same ones we're going to look at today.

So there's a lot of information out there if you want to dig deeper. But I think, John, as we step into these things, probably the first thing we should point out to our listeners about the 1933 prophecies is that there's actually not any evidence that they're from 1933.

Not at all. Oh, boy. So this is going to be one of those episodes where we find out William Brown, I'm pretty well made it all up, right? I think also we should pause, because for our listeners who were never in this, this statement won't make sense.

But to the listeners who are currently in the message thinking about leaving and even to some extent, the people who have left, understanding what is a prophet is critically important. Because people who were never in this will laugh at this statement, but whenever I left this message and I began to examine these quote unquote prophecies, and I was starting to realize that there actually was not a single prophecy.

And I started just comparing them. Here's what William Brannum said. And here's what actually happened. Here's what William Brannum changed it to later. And here's again, what actually happened. Here's how he changed it a third, a fourth, a fifth time.

And here's what actually happened. And people who were in the cult who were trying to stop this research, they started telling their congregants that I was a prophet rising up against William Brannum. I never had a prophecy.

I was explaining. Here's the actual thing that happened. And here's what William Brannum said. And these two do not match. But yet, I'm able to profit in the interesting part about this, Charles, is that people in the cult of personality are so programmed to believe a different thing from what a profit means that they actually believe, and still today, I get comments about this, they still say I'm a profit.

I've never had a prophecy, Charles. You know, it is so complicated in some ways when you're in the message, the mental gymnastics your mind does, John, because you know, you're in terms of future predicting prophecies.

This is really, really, really hard if you're in the message to even accept what I'm about to say. William Brown, I've never actually had any, not one, not one, and when I was in there, John, I spent years trying to find one, William Brown, I've never made a single future predicting prophecy that's recorded in such a way that it can be validated.

Yes, this is a legitimate prophecy. There is not one, not a single one. They're all, every future predicting prophecy is either something that was, he said, after the fact, hey, this happened, and by the way, I predicted it, right?

That is the vast majority of them, or it's like the India stuff, and it never happened, right? Like, you can find him predicting things about the future that never happened, but all the ones that actually did happen, you only find him talking about it after it's already fulfilled, right?

So there's no, it's, there's not a single future predicting prophecy on record in William Brown's ministry that you can find, and that's really, really hard, and you know, if there's people in the message, listen to that, their brains are, they're going to go start digging everywhere and probably put a million comments trying to show us all the prophecies that happened before he made them, right, John, but it's just not there, and I know I've analyzed that myself for a long time when I was in the message trying to find one that met that requirement, but really there isn't, there just isn't, and that's a knife in the heart,

you know what, John? Yeah, when I first left the message, Charles, it's kind of a funny story, because I have for some time had people who were working on the inside at headquarters, voice of God recordings, and you know, I grew up to some extent here, I grew up from coast to coast, but we always came back here, so I've got many friends who even still today, they're still in the message, and though they don't agree with me, and we actually don't see each other very much, there's still friends, and from time to time I get contacted, when

I wrote my first book, I still was programmed differently about what a prophet was, I did not understand that to be a prophet, you had to be nothing more than a mouthpiece, you didn't speak a prophet.

see, and your words made it happen. It's according to a biblical prophet, the description of a biblical prophet. It is God speaking through the person, and it cannot deviate from what happened. If there's even a minor trivial detail that's wrong, then it was not, at least not the Christian God saying it.

You know what I mean? And I, my first book, which wasn't very good, I was, I've had no idea that it would be an author. I published it and I just kind of went through some of the major problems with the quote unquote prophecies. And according to people who were inside of voice of God recordings, some of which have now actually escaped the message, not all, but every single screen, the way the person explained it to me is he would walk into an office and they would have my book up on the computer screen. And as soon as they walked in quickly, it would shut. And he said, it was all

over the building, everybody, and probably including some of the higher up people. They're all reading it on day one, day two. And from there, it really escalated. Once they found out this was out and it was having such an impact. I plan to, before this episode actually goes live, you've put some work into kind of putting a chronological timeline on the prophecies, how they were introduced, why they were introduced, how they changed, et cetera, which is amazing. I mean, that's a, it's a very good layout. And I'll put it on the screen here for the viewers to see. I plan to

take that on my 1933 prophecies page on the website. And I'll, I'll integrate it into the page. And I'll put some additional information such as this prophecy was before the event happened and it failed or this prophecy was prophesied after the fact. And he did not care enough to go see if the statement he made was correct about the fact. So hopefully that'll be up by the time this this podcast goes live. It's something else looking at these, you know, so when, when the, you know, when I first heard the accusation that there's not a single future predicting prophecy by William

Brandham on record anywhere, I could not believe that was possibly true. If you're in the message, you've got to believe that cannot possibly be true, right? There has to be a prophecy on record before the fact somewhere in William Brandham's ministry that we can prove he was a prophet. And so naturally, one of the first places I went to try and prove that was actually these 1933 prophecies, right? Because these are the most well-known prophecies. So I went looking because obviously here he predicted World War II would start in 1933. And so that's a pretty dramatic before the fact prophecy.

But as I got looking, I came to realize he made it like, There was, he never had these in 1933, he made this stuff up in the 50s, right? So there is not a single trace, there's not a single shred of evidence that he had these visions in 1933.

In fact, the evidence actually points, even internal evidence in the prophecies points towards the fact that he made these up somewhere in the mid-1950s. This is really the truth. Let's just walk through a little bit of that.

And here's the thing, as I talk to a lot of the old timers, John, like I've mentioned before that I debriefed, like I live here in the Jeffersonville area, I'm the, was the assistant pastor of the second oldest, continuously operating message church in the world, we had all kinds of people at our church who had been at the tabernacle.

I asked, there was not a single person, John, not one who had heard these prophecies before the 1950s, not one, not a single person. And we had people in our church who had known William Brown all the way back to the 1930s.

There was not a single person who had heard these prophecies before the 1950s, nobody. And that's a pretty big red flag, honestly, right there. Right, you know, I have said this to many people, after I was able to deprogram and start working with people, and I'm working with people who are helping others to escape the cult, I've said it for several years now that the best way to help a person escape the message cult following of William Branham, the cult of personality, is to teach them how to use the tools provided by the cult itself.

There's a website, everybody can go to it, it's table.branham.org, you can see every single transcript that they allow you to see. They don't allow you to see them all, but from 1947 to 1965, there is, I would say based off of the newspaper recordings that I have of William Branham at key events that would have had recordings, I would say that readers and listeners can see about 65, maybe 70% of what William Branham recorded.

And if you learn how to use the tools, if you learn how to search and understand what William Branham is saying, that alone will help somebody just simply wake up and escape. And the 1933 prophecies for me was honestly Charles, it was the biggest deal because you could go to all of these men who use William Branham as their stepping stone to their lights, cameras, action, fame, and glory that they have today.

I mean, we're talking Benny Hinn, who's smacking people with his coat. You can see these videos where people are just falling down from the power of this guy, right? And he says William Branham is one of the most accurate prophets he's ever seen.

Well, the man has never looked at what William Branham said, apparently, but here's where it gets problematic, Charles. People like my grandfather, when I confronted him on these prophecies, he said people have known this for years, John. What does it hurt for you to believe it anyway? In other words, yeah, I know the prophecies have failed. Other people working with me know the prophecies failed. Keep quiet, John, and your life will be happy. And when I refused, that is whenever he basically told everyone not to come see me, I had a demon. And if they came and saw me, they too would be cut off. So he essentially

put a roadblock between people getting this information. But all you have to do if you want to escape the message is just, you know, go to the source, go to William Brannum, and what's interesting, Charles, you'll find that it's not seven prophecies as they claim. There are actually quite a few more whenever you line them all up over time. Yes, there's actually more than more than seven.

You know, another big clue that these were never issued in 1933 is the fact that William Brannum claimed that he built the tabernacle in 1933. And when he did, he put a copy of these prophecies in the cornerstone. And if our listeners remember back when we did our episode on the Billy Brannum, Pentecostal Tabernacle, you know, we walked through the cornerstone of the tabernacle had been opened, excavated multiple times. And the prophecies were not in there. And, you know, as I look through all of that, it to me seems like as you get to about 1960, William Brannum started claiming

that it was in the cornerstone because if you listen to him on tape, he'll ask his audience. Do you remember when I gave these 1933 prophecies? And there's nobody, nobody remembers them, right? And so this is about the point in time he adds in. They're in the cornerstone. They're in the cornerstone. So this is his, his witness that he had them in 1933 is that he buried them in the cornerstone, right? That is very clear from the things that he does. This is the only witness available to us that these visions happened in 1933 is that he buried them in the cornerstone.

But the cornerstone was empty. It was empty. There was nothing in the cornerstone. It's been opened multiple times. It was open the day of his funeral. There is nothing in that cornerstone. So that's another huge red flag that something is not right. You know, he's telling us something here that again, we can, we can demonstrably prove that the thing he told us he did after he had these prophecies, write them down and bury them in the cornerstone. We can demonstrably prove he made that up, right? So again, that's another big red flag that these are not from 1933.

Exactly. I was shocked whenever I first learned that the cornerstone had been excavated because my grandfather, I mean, think of this, Charles. I struggle with this today. Grandfather I believe was a good man, his heart was in the right place, but he knew this.

And I have been in services where he said, it's in the cornerstone. My grandfather was there, not just one time when it was excavated. My grandfather was there twice. Whenever the cornerstone come up and it was empty and everybody went, oh my gosh, they're not in there.

My grandfather was there two times. The first time I can see it happening, and you know, he's excited to see what's in there if he believed this. The second time, Charles, he had to have pretended that he didn't see it the first time.

But the problem is, I have set in sermons long after they were excavated twice, after they have proven that it wasn't in there, where my grandfather said they're in the cornerstone. So for me, this is just, it really bothers me that this happened.

Yeah. Message preachers knowingly lie to protect William Brannum, definitely. You know, it's a common thing. I picked up actually the same thing where I come from, in some of the things that the preachers would say and do as well.

They would knowingly lie in order to kind of protect William Brannum and the things he said. You know, once you've spent some time kind of examining how William Brannum operates, you kind of notice that the supernatural stories that he tells are kind of a lot like fishing stories.

And every time he tells the story, the fish gets a little bigger, right? And so, you know, these seven visions are really actually another one of his fishing stories, John. It does seem like he was preaching something about Mussolini in the 1930s.

That does seem to be true. But this only gradually involves into it being seven visions, right? Like the very first time he actually ever talked about these visions ever was 1953. And he never mentioned the existence of these things before 1953.

And in 1953, it wasn't even seven visions. It was just him preaching about Mussolini back in the 30s. And then it's in 1955 that it finally morphs into being seven visions or a vision anyway, not even seven, just a vision.

And 1956, that's when he adds the detail about it being buried in a cornerstone when he, when there's no witnesses there to validate him, have it in the 30s. But it's not actually until you get to 1960, 1960 is the year that the story finally takes the full evolution into seven visions in 1933, right?

So we're done pushing 30 years after the event when, when, when he really fully introduces this as seven visions. And 1960 is the first year, the first time that he ever actually counts out and tells what all seven visions were supposed to be 30 years later.

30 years later. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it wasn't until we discovered the win rod, Reese. search that I began to realize that the earliest statements, whenever I wrote the book, the first time, I went through, I think it's 1953, the first time he mentions Mussolini.

And I included that in his 1933 Mussolini prophecies. But if you go back and look, he's not even claiming that it was a prophecy. He later transitions to claim this, but the statement is something to the effect if Mussolini ever goes to Ethiopia, there'll be no peace.

And now that we know that when Rod was and many others were doing this under the Nazi conspiracy, they were essentially saying that Mussolini was rising up as the Antichrist. And if he joined with Mussolini, and this is an awful word, I'm going to say it anyway, the Mongols, the Ethiopia Mongols, if Rome joined with the Mongols, we would have no peace.

In other words, we would be in the tribulation. It wasn't even really yet a full end of day scenario. It was just that there would be no peace. And he was essentially parroting what when Rod was saying.

Right. And when Rod believed that, you know, obviously the communist Russia was the Jewish conspiracy, that was the Jews. And somehow the communist Russia was going to make a deal with Hitler. So the Jews, or with, rather, with Mussolini.

So the Jews were going to make a pact with Mussolini, Rome, right. And you're going to get your end-of-day scenario of the, you know, so it all goes back to that loaded language with, with Winrod, back in those days, Jew, equal communist, communist, equal Jew.

Mussolini was Rome, right. And Ethiopia is your Mongols, right, all leading up to this, this stuff. And you know, when you, when you look at what William Brown, I'm saying, yeah, he really is getting that stuff out of Winrod's writings and it morphs over time.

And that, what you mentioned about Ethiopia, that's actually another very solid clue in the prophecies that they are not from 1933, actually, exactly. So that is actually a solid clue that these prophecies are from the 19, were made up in the 1950s.

And let me read part of one of them to you. William Brown have said, this is 1953, he said, I said that Mussolini, when he come to power 20 some odd years ago, I said, if Mussolini ever goes towards Ethiopia, mark this down, there will never be peace till Jesus Christ comes.

That's from Israel and the church number two. So as I just read there, that, that's the, actually, the oldest copy referencing this stuff, 1953. I think Charles, the big thing for me is that whenever we think of these 1933 prophecies as a cult of personality, it's very integral to our cult of personality.

If not for the... quote unquote, seven prophecies. There would be no profit. He would be no in time messenger. His whole ministry, his whole cult of personality believes that it is because of these prophecies that are describing the end of day scenario that makes him the quote unquote profit messenger. And even worse than that, it's the he gets the title spoken word from the cult of personality. In other words, he's the profit messenger. He has the word from the Lord. Now he is a new, basically a new book in the Bible. I've heard people call it, you know, the second book of Elijah even. So it's very problematic

to under when you understand that it wasn't initially an end of day's series of prophecies. In fact, it was according to the statements that he gives in the clues that he gives, it was a parodying of what many, many, many other people were saying during the era, the biggest of which were Nazi conspirators who were leading up to the great sedition trial. And it isn't until it transitions into an end of day's scenario, which we'll get to later in this podcast, that he starts introducing the origins of World War II and the predictions of World War III. He's setting up

basically in the later 50s. He starts setting up the prophecies that were initially just simply statements to become an end of day's scenario. Yeah, it's clear that he really just kind of used these in order to set up his prophecy number seven. And maybe as we just kind of walk through them all, we can get there and kind of just analyze each one a little bit. But yeah, but he's mainly setting all of these up as you come into the 50s, so he can then introduce ultimately his end of day's prophecy at the end. And that's really of all of these. That last one is really the only

one that honestly mattered very much in the message, in sense of predicting the future I felt anyway, at least in our sector. I think another thing that's important to point out about these 1970s, the seven visions of 1933. So not only are they not from 1933, there's also not seven. Exactly. There's actually 10 or 11, depending on how you count. And leave ale when he wrote the church ages, he attempted to unify all of the different versions of this story.

And he put a, I think he probably did the best possible job that you can do to unify all these prophecies when he wrote the church age book. But what he put in the church age book actually does not match a single telling of these stories from from William Brown. He is a synthesized account of all of them put together. So I didn't use that when I you know deciding which ones to use. I decided I probably just used the original version that he told in 1960.

First time he told all seven as we as we analyze it but as you go through all of the different tellings there is 10 or 11 prophecies kind of depending on how you count and I think that's noteworthy too that he not only misled us about the year that he made these things up in that he also got the number of them wrong like how do you it don't make sense that that that he was able to do that. I think the first one let me read out the first one John and or maybe I'll just read out

what he what he said here concerning the first ones he this is from 1960 and this is the first time he ever actually reads them off paper and he says I was on my way to Sunday school when I was getting my Bible a vision came before me and I was stopped in the floor and here's what it said it's on yellow paper will be printed in herald of faith right away because most all of it is fulfilled 1933 think of it now many many years ago about 28 years ago it has taken place and watch how

accurate his word is and John I have looked all through herald of faith this was never in herald of faith so you know he's he's mistaken there and I think it's also worth point out when he wrote his his official biography came out in 1950 these prophecies are not in his official biography either so no yeah never thought about it no there these are not in anything they are in nothing he he even made these up after his official biographies came out so anyways he's saying there though that he's got it on a yellow piece of paper that he wrote it down on in 1933 and he's reading to us off

of this yellow piece of paper that he wrote it down on in 1933 and as he does that he says we have a president mr. Roosevelt and mr. Roosevelt will cause the world to go into a world war through his time of administration so that that's the first of the seven prophecies and mr. Roosevelt will cause the world to go into a world war through his time of administration so that's that's the first prophecy that Roosevelt will cause the world to go into a world war and I want to pause their Charles because that is another clue back to

windrod that is exactly what windrod was saying everybody today knows that Hitler is the one who caused the world to go to war so when that was the first thing that I noticed when I was going through these prophecies as I was leaving the cult I knew inside of my heart I knew that Hitler caused the world to go to war I never ever believed that Roosevelt did and whenever I came across this I was like well that alone makes him a false prophet but if you go back into the thirties the propaganda being spread by the Nazi conspirators was

that it was Roosevelt who was planted in Washington by the communists and he was part of this uprising of the race war. What's really unusual, just like you said, this is what Rinrod is saying. I have actually quite a number of Rinrod's books that I have went through, John. He wrote about 50 books. It seems so clear that William Brennan was influenced by Gerald Winrod because we know Roy Davis was working directly with Gerald Winrod. We know he's working directly with him in 1932, for example. And 1932 was the same year that Roy Davis got arrested

off the platform in front of William Brennan. So there's every indication and every, it's entirely plausible, entirely likely that William Brennan either heard this stuff directly from Winrod or heard it repeated, perhaps, through Roy Davis or other people in the circles that he was around. Because William Brennan was in the circles that was working with Winrod in the 1930s, for sure. And so yeah, and if you recall, Winrod actually got arrested because they were blaming all of this on Roosevelt all the way up into the war. And again, you're correct. That's absolutely ridiculous. Roosevelt did not cause the World War. And for William Brennan to put that in a

prophecy in 1960 says a whole lot about William Brennan's political views, right? More than anything else. So anybody who, I mean, I have all kinds of history books on the shelf. There's not a single legitimate history in the world that says Roosevelt started World War I. I mean America was the last major country to get into the war. And America didn't declare war on Germany. Germany declared war in America. And it only happened after Pearl Harbor. I mean, how about Pearl Harbor, right? Did Roosevelt cause Pearl Harbor? I mean, it's, we're in conspiracy theory land here with these prophecies,

right? So prophecy number one is junk. I mean, it's a junk prophecy. This is junk. And it's a false prophecy right off the bat, right? It starts out a false prophecy. All right off the bat, these seven visions. Another point I'll make is that I actually, I have put together a list and it's on the website. People can see it of the quote unquote seven prophecies of 1933. And if you take how they change and what they become, you actually end up with 18 of them. And so the way that I line this up is he allegedly had these prophecies in 1933 and Roosevelt will cause the world to go

to war. I do believe he was saying that in 1933, but he was saying it along with Davis and Winrod. It was part of their propaganda. But later, the cult realized that, wait a minute, William Brannum is not correct in this.

Later, they introduced a statement that Hitler caused the Second War. So if you look on my website, you'll see point prophecy number one is that Roosevelt would take America into a Second World War.

And prophecy number two is that Hitler will take America into a Second World War. Right. And it's really only, and I believe the very last time he tells us on tape that he actually says Hitler started the war.

I believe every other single time except the very last time he ever told this before he died. He said it was Roosevelt that started the war. And when Leavale wrote the church-age book and tried to unify them all, he used the Hitler started the war one and ignored the other 20 times he said Roosevelt started the war.

So roughly 20 to one, he said Roosevelt started the war. And as I said, in this one, he's reading off of the paper he wrote it down on in 1933. So is he reading it off the paper wrong?

Right. So it's... He's claiming to read it. He also claims to have read a paper that said 1932 and it had different versions of the prophecies. It's something else. To let me go to the next one, John.

So here's prophecy number two according to his 1960 version. He says, and during this time, they've permitted women to vote, which will be a curse to the nation. They'll elect the wrong man sometime.

And they did that the other day. Now just think of that. So this prophecy's a little bit weird to me, John, honestly. So one thing he's saying, this is already fulfilled. The women have already voted, elected the wrong man.

They just did it a few days ago, which is Kennedy. This is who he's talking about, right? So he's saying this one's already fulfilled, too. This one's past hands. But what's really weird about this one to me, John, is I don't really feel like this is a legitimate prophecy, honestly.

Women... There's two problems here. One, women will elect the wrong president. Well, everybody, half the country always believes that the wrong president got elected, right? I mean... Okay. You got a 50% chance. You'll find, you know, 150 million will say Biden was the wrong president.

You'll find another 150 million will say Trump was the wrong president. You'll find 150 million says Obama was the wrong person, right? They always elect the wrong person, right? So it's impossible, really, for this prophecy to ever be wrong in one sense, right?

But the other problem is if you actually go back and look at the voter statistics, the majority of women voted not for Kennedy. They voted for, I believe Nixon. Nixon was running against him, right?

The majority of women voted for Nixon, that election, like what in the world? Yeah, the real problem here. else for me is that women were allowed to vote long before these alleged 1933 prophecies.

If he did prophesied in 1933, people would be like, what in the world are you talking about, man? Women can already vote. Yeah. The 19th Amendment passed in 1919 and women could already vote at the time of these 1933 prophecies.

And at the end of the day, to me, this is like prophesying the sun will come up tomorrow. It's pretty well impossible that what he's saying here can even be wrong, right? No matter what happens, he's going to be able to say, yeah, women voted for the wrong president.

So it's, to me, this is not a legitimate prophecy. I would say this says more about his political views than any sort of prophecy. For me, Charles, this is the exact prophecy that I went to my grandfather about way back in what was that January of 2012, I believe it was whenever we escaped the cold.

This is the prophecy that I went to my grandfather for because my grandfather, like all the other ministers in the message, claimed that one of the seven prophecies was that a woman would be made president.

And because a woman became president, the entire earth would be destroyed. That's, that is a legitimate message, cult, narcissistic, misogynistic prophecy, right? But, but this particular introduction of a prophecy, this women's vote prophecy, it was specifically introduced because of president Kennedy in an attempt to sway the masses against the leader of basically the equal rights movement.

Kennedy was a champion of the equal rights movement. And Kennedy, you know, there are pictures online with Kennedy and Martin Luther King. And I mean, this guy was their hero, William Brannum is their villain, Roy Davis is actually rising up with Brannum against him.

So this was a specific prophecy against Kennedy. And like you said earlier, William Brannum said it was fulfilled with Kennedy. And at the point in which he introduces this, because he had for so long been saying that in 1933 he claimed that a woman would be president, well now he changes it to, oh, and by the way, I was unclear on this paper that I've written.

And it's not a, it's not a woman, it could be a woman who's a vice president and we still have a male president, or it could be, quote unquote, the Catholic church. Right. And every Catholic president could be the fulfill of this, of this dark prophecy.

Augusto Farris to St. Charles, I believe that there will be a female. president and I'll go so far as to say I think she might do better than any of the men that we have recently elected in office. Better be careful there, John. The message people are going to think you're real profit. Yeah, you know, I can prophesy. The sons are going to come up tomorrow, guys. I mean, does that make me profit? I mean, come on. This is, this is junk. This, I mean, I just hate to say this is junk, John. This is junk. Yeah. Um, so here, here's the next prophecy from

William Brannum. Um, number three, prophecy number three of the seven or 18 or 21, however, you count them. Number three, he says, we will go toward with Germany and Germany will be fortified behind concrete. And we will take an awful beating at that place, the Maginot line 11 years before it was built. See? Exactly. Now, um, John, there's a whole lot wrong with that prophecy, John.

And I think the most obvious problem with that prophecy is that the Maginot line is not in Germany. The Maginot line is in France. Even, even the name, Charles, it's a French name. Yeah, I know.

He did not care enough about his cult of personality to even check which country built this thing. He say in Maginot line, which is in France, there's a few times that he'll say, Sigfried line, try to correct himself. What's interesting, Charles, is that I think that he was interested a bit about the history. And I think he did eventually understand that he was saying it incorrectly because what's interesting, the first time that he says it correctly, the first time that he uses the word Sigfried, the French built the Maginot line, the Germans built the Sigfried line. He is talking about history. He's actually not talking about his prophecy and he

talks about Adolf Hitler and he says that they built the Maginot line and then he corrects himself and says Sigfried. So at some point in time, he did learn the correct version. But remember, he claims that he's got this piece of paper and this piece of paper has the French line of fortification. I know. And I believe he was saying Maginot line all the way up into the 60s still.

And but every once in a while, especially towards the last little bit, he would kind of catch himself and say, Sigfried line to fix it. What is interesting still about both of those, John, is so if you take the Maginot line, there was never any big battle at the Maginot line. I mean, never. And even at the real Sigfried line, he says here, the Americans will take a great beating.

The Americans won that battle. The Americans won and defeated the Germans, right? So it's it's kind of an odd thing and and and even even at that you think about this in World War II why do you think Winrod got arrested he say in Americans are going to take a beating in the war I mean you imagine what this would do to troop morale during the war hey guys you're gonna lose your battle you're gonna take a big beating you're gonna like this is a very unpatriotic thing to say and do right right and I can totally see and again if he's repeating this

stuff that he's learned it from Winrod Winrod got arrested for this stuff right this is very if he had this kind of prophecy did he call up the army and try to warn them so they could adjust their strategy and help win the war right like something is not it's still something's not right here in all of this right yeah Winrod got arrested because he was one of 30 people who were highly influential at the time and made the biggest impact William Brannum at this time was a no-name guy working for Davis who is working with Winrod and

a handful of others that were working with Winrod had William Brannum been as influential as he was in the 50s William Brannum would have been in the list of men who were in the great sedition trial yeah it's something else and so the majority of times and I I look through the majority of times that he told this prophecy he told it the Maginoline way he said Maginoline that's this majority statement as he told these prophecies and so on that account it was wrong and even if he said the Sigfried line and it was correctly talking about the

Sigfried line it's still wrong because again the Americans won the battle at Sigfried line so it's yeah it's problematic it William Brannum is dead wrong on that prophecy no matter whether you take what he said the majority of the times or the few times he he you Sigfried line so yeah unusual yeah it's a big deal I mean when you really step back at and take a look at all of these things that he's saying I came to the point Charles as I was writing the first book and starting to just understand what is a prophet what is prophecy how can it

be wrong if God is speaking through the man the human if God is speaking through the human then it cannot be wrong and yet we see all of these things wrong but it's bigger than that I came to the point where I realized Charles there is not a single one of these prophecies not one that actually enriched my life actually wanted me to be saved wanted me to you know be in the message you have to be baptized with the Holy Ghost in healing it's like this Pentecostal thing none of it wanted you to join Christianity. So if you're in the cult of personality, it's this glorious thing. He had these

things that we can say, oh wow, he was accurate. But look outside of the cult. This isn't something that reaches the lost and brings them to Jesus. If he were truly a messenger from God, these would be things that were intended to attract people to be saved. Instead, every one of these are specifically designed to attract people to believe that this man had this power. It was pointing to William Branum. None of them were pointing to Jesus.

Yeah, you know, I think it's worth pointing out again that when he said, imagine a line there in 1960, he was reading off the yellow piece of paper from 1933. Yeah, allegedly from 1933. How about we jump to the next one? Number four.

So number four. This one is this new dictator Mussolini will take his first step toward Ethiopia, and Ethiopia will fall at his feet. It did. It said that will be his last and he will end in disgrace.

So again, there's some problems with this prophecy as well. He's saying here Mussolini will take Ethiopia. Ethiopia will fall at his feet. And basically, this is going to be his last invasion. This is going to be it. It's going to be over at this point. But that's not true. So Mussolini successfully conquered multiple other countries after this, John. Yeah.

He conquered Tunisia. He conquered Greece. He conquered Albania. He took parts of Yugoslavia. He annexed pieces of France, right? Like Mussolini successfully invaded and took multiple other countries after this. But William Brannum in his 1933 prophecy that he's reading off the yellow piece of paper that he wrote down in 1933 says that will be his last and he will end in disgrace.

Yeah. So again, this is a demonstrably incorrect false prophecy, right? You know, I think I understood, as I read this, I understand why Joseph Matson Bosé didn't want to publish this in Harold of Faith. It would destroy his newsletter, man. Everybody reading would say, well, not a single one of these are correct. I know, right? So again, it's something else. And I also understand why when Lee Vail wrote the Church Age book that he totally revised these, right? When you read the version of Lee Vail in the Church Age book, Lee Vail knew these was all junk too, right? And he took effort to fix all these up.

It's so funny, man. If you and I, we have not yet taken a road trip together, but if we were both to lie on this podcast, tell something that isn't true. And I said, we went to Cincinnati, and we watched the Cincinnati Bingoes Play Football game. And you said, But we went to Nashville and we listened to some bluegrass music.

What Lee Vail is doing is he's combining two completely contradicting false things. And he's saying, well, no, what really happened is they went to Nashville and watched the Cincinnati Bengals game. I know he he and he does the best job of unifying it all.

I would say his unified version is the version generally accepted in the message is his unified version of these prophecies. Okay, so how about we jump to the next one? This one is another dandy number five.

William Braniff says it will come to pass before the end time comes that there will be a great woman stand up in the United States because the United States is marked woman. Her number is 13 and she'll rise up either be president or I put in parentheses.

He's reading off the paper or put I put in parentheses. This being beautiful and attractive will be the Catholic church, but cruel at heart and she'll lead the nation to pollution. John, if I heard my preachers in our church tell this once, I heard this prophecy a hundred times.

This is this is probably the second most reference prophecy out of all these William Braniff's. Charles, what would happen if you're reading the Bible and you read Ezekiel and Ezekiel, you know, had the scribes write one of his prophecies and then Ezekiel said, now pause there guys while you're writing this, put in parentheses, it could be this other thing.

So we know how this is in the message, right? I remember when Bill Clinton was president, Hillary, this was Hillary. I remember when Hillary ran for president, it was Hillary. I remember when Kamala Harris got elected, it was Kamala Harris.

I remember when Obama was president, it was Michelle, right? Like every, the message recycles this for every woman in a position of power every time it happens, right? It's the first lady, a vice president, some powerful person in the White House, like they just recycled this over and over and over, and the pattern is it's always a Democrat woman, right?

Obviously, but it's, to me, it's so bizarre, and here's the really bizarre thing, John. William Brownham said Kennedy fulfilled this prophecy, right? William Brownham said it was Kennedy, Kennedy was the man who was fulfilled this prophecy.

He was the Catholic, the women elected him, he was the fulfiller of this prophecy, yet message people, message preachers especially, and what is wrong with them? Never and over and over keep trying to reapply this prophecy to some woman that comes to power, but when Brownham said it was John Kennedy, like do you believe William Brownham or not?

It's, it's so absurd, Charles. I mean, if you really think about what these cult leaders... you're doing. They can apply this to every single president forever. It's either a woman president running. It's either the wife of the president. I mean, it's so it could be think of this. So we've got, you know, Kamala Harris' vice president right now. But when Trump was running, what if instead of Kamala Harris, they pointed it to Trump like they did in the past elections and said, no, it's Trump because William Brannum was predicting stormy Daniels.

Some of them I've even heard of replying it to Biden now because Biden's a Catholic too, right?

Yeah. So I don't know what to do with this one. Honestly, John, at a certain point, like just on this front, just the way that the message preachers revise this prophecy every two to four years, let's, you know, when you think about that, they change what this prophecy means every two to four years. And most of the message preachers, certainly where I've come from, this prophecy's went through five to ten in different interpretations, right? Just in my lifetime.

At a certain point, you start to realize, wait a minute, they don't have a clue. They don't have a clue. Not a clue. Right. So it's the last eight times they were wrong. I'm going to trust them here. This is the nighttime, right? You don't know what you don't know what you're talking about.

You've demonstrated to me a pattern. You don't know what you're talking about. I don't believe you this time because you were wrong the last eight times. And the last eight times you told me it was all God from the prophet and everything else. And you know, at a certain point, they completely lose their credibility. I'm a big fan of looney tunes, Charles. My entire life is a looney tune.

But there's this, there's this episode where the gun drops and it jams and it's an automatic rifle. And it's just shooting and spraying bullets everywhere. That's what these preachers are doing, man. It's the cult is a looney tune. You might as well shake a magic eight ball and ask it what this prophecy is about. And that will probably be more accurate than the average message preachers interpretation of this prophecy. Because I promise you, whatever the message preachers are saying, the interpretation of this prophecy is, in approximately two to five years, they will have all changed what this prophecy means. Right. And then another two to five years,

they'll change it again. And of course, they'll all say, no, the rapture will happen by then.

No, it won't. And again, it just bears witness. They do not know what in the world they are talking about. Right. You know, if somebody tells you something, at what point do you realize, this is the 10th, 12th, 50th time I can stop. This person does not know what they're talking about.

They're always wrong. Yeah. And the 50th version of what you're saying, it changes so for, I mean, think about it. All of these people who are in this mind control, this group think, they hear the guy saying it and they're, oh, a man, brother, it's Kamala Harris.

And then they do the same exact thing the very next time. This will continue forever. while they're under this manipulation. Yeah, yeah. The same people who amen said it was Hillary, are the same people who amen said it was Michelle, are the same men who amen said it's Kamala, right?

Are the same people who all the way back in the 60s when William Brown have said it was Kennedy, were amen in that too. This thing has been through a constant iteration of changes since the day that William Brown have said Kennedy was it.

And here's the thing, why don't they believe William Brown? Why don't they believe that William Brown said it was Kennedy? He said it was fulfilled. Yeah, so it's something else, John. This is the prophecy I think of all of these that in the message I got to the point, if I hear this one more time, I'm gonna throw up.

Like I really got to that point with this prophecy because I even remember asking my pastor about it one time, you know, about the 18th time they changed who it was. I asked him, didn't, didn't, William Brown have to say that was Kennedy.

I asked that to the pastor after, you know, the last time he changed it. And he's like, oh, I don't remember. Yeah, right, like I don't remember. Of course you remember. You're sitting there when he said it, right?

But anyway, moving on. It angered my grandfather. Whenever I mentioned, I mean, again, I was literally trying to prove William Brown to be a prophet, not to prove him to be a false prophet.

I was just trying to understand and I go to Grandpa and I ask him and not only did he do this thing, he said, John, I'm going to come down very hard against you and your family.

I was, I actually paused. I said, Grandpa, are you threatening me? My wife, you know, he had not even talked to her. He didn't even know whether I'd been talking to her. My children, they were too young to even understand this.

They were cut off from God, the message God, because I asked a question and I realized there's something pretty wrong here. You know, you couple that with as ministers get older and they start to have mental health, you know, dimension, things come on.

The older ministers, you know, it's a very problematic the things that they do, you know. I have the same way witnessed all kinds of very terrible abuses against people like that, John. Just over little things.

Just, they will utterly destroy people, honestly, for nothing, right? And you wonder why, you know, why? There's just something off. There's something wrong there. And it stems out of this message stuff. So for me, this woman president prophecy is another one of those.

The sun's gonna come up tomorrow, prophecies, right? So either a woman or a Catholic will be in a position of power in the United States. No kiddin', it's inevitable. The sun is gonna come up tomorrow.

A woman or a Catholic is gonna have power in the United States. Yeah, it's gonna happen. So again, this is a junk prophecy, John. This is not worth anything. This is... can to prophesy and the sun's gonna come up tomorrow.

So in my book. So how about we move on to prophecy number six? We might be running out of time. Let's go. But we're getting close to number seven. Number six, and it'll come to pass that they'll have an automobile perfected into a place.

And remember, he's reading this off the yellow piece of paper he wrote it out in 1933, that I seen a family driving in an automobile that was glass topped and didn't have any steering wheel in it.

It was, and I seen the other day that it was in the popular mechanics magazine. That machine is already invented. They can take it anywhere you want to by some sort of a radar control.

Just set your post to it and it goes right on. You don't even need it and it's glass topped again. There's the prophecy of self-driving egg-shaped cars. And I'll say this is the one prophecy that he consistently told every single time.

From the very big egg-shaped self-driving cars. This is all is through there. Now, we're not always self-driving, but always the egg-shaped cars. Yeah, it's such a big deal, Charles. I mean, I remember being in services where we're listening to a recording of these things being read by William Brannum on this paper that's either dated 1932 or dated 1933.

I think he's also got 1931 and maybe even 1930. And people were hearing, praise God and a car will be shaped by it like an egg. And I'm looking around, why do we praise God for this?

I know. The message, and this is actually incredibly dangerous. The message looks forward to the end of day scenario. The message looks, people in the message looks forward to the climax of all of this.

And that's what it all amounts to. They're looking forward to the destruction of America, right? And there's not any interest in doing anything to evade the final step of this vision, right? There's no interest in doing something to actually prevent vision number seven, the absolute destruction of our nation, right?

It's all, it's embraced. Yes, the America is gonna be destroyed. Praise the Lord, you know, that is how this thing ends. But these egg-shaped cars, these egg-shaped cars, so again, I have heard, I don't know how many times I heard in the message, John, the preacher said, well, there I just saw an egg-shaped car, praise the Lord, the prophet's prophecy is true.

And they'll trot this out over and over and over and over. But the same thing William Brannum said, it was already fulfilled in 1960, right? He said he already saw the car, you know, it already existed.

So this is another one of those things, you know, where clearly that's not a good predictor of the end of the world because this, whatever this car is, has been around since 1960, at least.

I did a deep dive on this particular prophecy because I'm a car enthusiast. I don't even know if you know this, but I grew up working on cars. I'm a mechanic, even though I do IT stuff.

Now I love cars. I love vehicles. Been to several car shows. I've been out on trips out into the country where you see these old rusty cars sitting on a farm and stopped and look at the cars to admire the shape of this rust bucket.

Other people would never do this. I'm an artist as well. And I used to, I've got somewhere, I've got sketchbooks of old cars that I drew. And so this one fascinated me. This is the one, Charles, whenever I was coming out of the cult, I actually, for a long time, I still believe William Brannem was a prophet.

And it was because of this particular prophecy that I believed that he was a prophet. Even though I could see some of the others failed, I at that time was manipulated like the rest of the cult of personality to believe.

It doesn't matter if one fails. You can have the others as long as, as long as you can prove one detail of one single one of the 18 prophecies of 1933, as long as one trivial detail is true, then you can believe the whole rest of it.

That's my mentality because that's how it's programmed. And that's, in general, that's how the cult is programmed. But I started diving deep into this and found this book called Horizons. And it was called a prophetic book.

It was made by an architectural designer, Norman Belgettys. And he laid out, honestly, Charles, it's a roadmap for progress and improvement from 1933 through about 19. I wanna say it's like 1950 or 60 is whenever it kind of ends.

And we're in a new era of design at this point. But if you go to some of these old car shows and you go to, just take a drive in the country, you'll see these cars with this very rounded shape of the back and you see these buses that the bus looks like an egg.

Well, this is Norman Belgettys design. Norman Belgettys was at the 1933 World's Fair. His book was on sale preempting this fair. Then the New York World's Fair, I can't remember the year, 1938, maybe I can't remember.

His designs had become so popular by then that it was widespread, it was everywhere. But at the 1933 World's Fair, his designs were starting to be implemented by some of the car manufacturers. And so I started, look, I didn't realize this until I started researching it.

So I took a step back, okay, he's saying it in 1933 or 32. I wanted to know how far back did... the egg design go, because initially William Brannum introduced it as an egg-shaped car prophecy. He later added the self-driving aspect. I believe the earliest date, and I'd have to go look it up to see exactly. I think it was like 1915 that they were predicting cars would be shaped like an egg. And they were even printing this in the Louisville Courier Journal, which William Brannum would have read. They were predicting the coming of the egg-shaped car. So this is just like the other prophecies we've talked about.

Had William Brannum actually said this in 1933, everybody listening would say, what are you talking about, man? It's all over the news. It's all over the newspapers. This thing has already been something that at William Brannum said himself that he went to the 1933 World's Fair. He would have seen the egg-shaped car.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because we know that there were these egg-shaped cars at the 1933 World's Fair, and we know William Brannum was there. So was he prophesying in 1933 when he had laid his eyes on while he was at the World's Fair? So again, it's not really a legitimate prophecy. He's just predicting the same thing that the auto manufacturers are predicting.

He goes to the Seattle World's Fair, and that's where they have on display the self-driving aspect of these vehicles. It had already been all over the country. He even mentions reading it in a magazine, right? There were actual photographs of designs of cars, future designs, where it showed a man and a woman playing checkers or some blurred game in the back of their car. Well, what's interesting, Charles, is we have passed that era. There was a time when cars were shaped like an egg. They believed that this was, they were introducing aerodynamics. This is the design that allows the cars to go faster. They have since realized, after that era, that the

actual egg shape doesn't work. It has to be more flattened. And so then cars progressed into a more flattened egg shape. So it looked like, you know, kind of more like a pancake crossed with an egg.

Well, now they've realized that with this unbelievable amount of horsepower they have, they don't even need so much aerodynamics. They just need to have a windbreaker that causes the air to flow over the car. And we're starting to see vehicles being introduced that are mimicking the 60s where it's this big blocky style. Trucks are now taller. And as long as they've got the windbreak in the front of the vehicle, the air will actually flow over the car. So the car itself doesn't even have to be shaped like an egg. And you're not going to find a-

single kid in this world. Not, you know, maybe 1% who are going to play a board game in the back of a car. Number one, you hit a bump in all your pieces go off. But number two, Charles, they're going to be playing Xbox or PlayStation. You know, they're not going to be playing a board game.

Yeah, I know. So this is really a dated prophecy at this point. And again, William Brennan said this was fulfilled back in the past, right? Like, so William Brennan, as the time he's telling this, in 1960 says it's already fulfilled. And this isn't the first time. I believe when he told this at points in the 50s earlier that he said, it's already fulfilled. I've already seen it too, right?

So really from the earliest days that William Brennan is telling this egg-shaped car prophecy, he's already saying it's fulfilled. And if that is a prophecy that makes him a prophet, then it also makes the auto manufacturers of the 1933 World's Fair prophets too. So it just, to me, this is another one of those, I don't know. I don't really know that this is worth anything, honestly. I really don't. It seems to me entirely likely that if he did say this in the 30s, he's probably just sharing something that he saw at the World's Fair that eventually, as this fishing story grows,

this turns into one of his visions, right? Yeah. This is not a supernatural vision from God. So maybe before we go to vision number seven, we should just mention the miss some of the missing visions here in 1960. So notice what's missing here. The three isms vision. Yeah. There's nothing about the three isms when he's reading this off of the yellow sheet of paper that he wrote it on in 1933. Why didn't he say anything about the three isms? That was a huge part of this.

Nothing about the three isms. There's also, these are the funniest two prophecies to me, Charles. There's also the 1933 prophecies that in the last days, you shall not eat eggs. My family, my family was with the Brandon family. They ate eggs. I can assure you that they completely ignored God if God actually said this to William Brannum. But bigger than that, Charles, there's another prophecy that went with that. Don't live in a valley. We live in the Ohio River Valley, Charles. The church never moved. If he actually said this in 1933, as they're building their

church, they would not have built the church in the Ohio River Valley. The exact prophecy was do not live in a valley and the fact that the church is built in the Ohio River Valley in of itself is proof that he did not have these prophecies in 1933. Yeah. He more or less thought, you know, that pollution would be so bad it would settle in the valleys and eggs would be susceptible to it.

You know, it was going to, it was a pollution-related thing, honestly, but yeah, it,

it's something else, John. I, it's obviously a untrue prophecy, right? And I think that's probably why that one got dropped so quickly out of the list, right? Because it's obviously something's wrong with that. Another really big one that he didn't include when he was reading it off of the yellow piece of paper that he wrote it on in 1933 is the women would go around wearing a little fig leaf as clothes. That was a big one. I remember our preachers would point out the time, the time.

He left that one out here. Women were supposed to be going around naked wearing fig leaves, basically. That was a prominent one, but he, but when he reads it off the yellow piece of paper, he wrote it out all in 1933. That one there. So what, what, what about that? So anyways, I, I think there's enough here. People can realize there's more than seven. And if you, if you've spent much time looking at all of his prophecies, you, you realize that if you read this version from 1960, there's, there's some missing compared to other versions or maybe the more

official versions that we're, we're used to in the message. So there's another funny one, Charles. When you think about what, when Rod was saying what he was doing and you think about Roy Davis and the clan and all of this background of William Brown and behind the scenes, there's a 1961 version that he predicts that in the last days, the United States will worship a woman named Mary.

Now, who's he talking about, Charles? Why does he? Why does he even try to conceal the fact that he's talking about the Catholic Church? He's, he is literally just repeating exactly what when Rod and what Davis are saying in the last days, there will be a woman that's worshiped named Mary. It's crazy. You know, I, I honestly believe that when you step back and you, you look at all these problems and inconsistencies, I, I think the overwhelming evidence really strongly indicates that he faked these 1930, he prophecies. He, this is just a hoax, another thing that he made

up and he made this up somewhere in the mid 1950s. The Holy Spirit never gave him this stuff, you know, he, he literally just made this up and there is zero value to any of this. There's no, none of this has any value at all for anything or anyone. This has no value and the only thing that it really did for people in the message is this is something we would try to use to vindicate William Brannem as being a prophet. But if we are the least bit honest with ourselves, we will admit that half of these prophecies are dead wrong. Roosevelt didn't start World War II. The Americans

didn't lose or battle at the Maginot line. Ethiopia was not Mussolini's last successful invasion, right? The prophecies are dead wrong. So to use these to... vindicate William Brannum. These actually do the opposite of indicating William Brannum. They actually expose him as a fraud.

Yeah. That's what these 19th, a reasonable person looking at any version of these 1933 prophecies that he told on tape will conclude that he was a fraud. That's the truth. Yeah. They were specifically designed for self-promotion and because they were so incredibly wrong it's basically to his own detriment. And like you said, there's not a single one of these of any value, but I'll go so far as to say and I'll probably end up in a rant after we talk about the last one.

I'll go so far as to say that these were actually detrimental to the mental health, to the overall outlook, to the happiness of the members of the cult of personality. These prophecies and their intent completely robbed us of our happiness.

I would say especially this next one, number seven, you're exactly right John. This number seven is a key component of what made the message a doomsday cult. And the negative ramifications of this prophecy on the lives of tens of thousands of people is terrible.

It is terrible. The terrible, the ramifications of this last prophecy on people. And people in the message will never admit this, but I mean we know it's truth. We live through it ourselves. This last prophecy, which is just as false as the first six.

People hate me saying that, but it is, has ruined and damaged countless lives. I'm afraid. So, let me read prophecy number seven, or eleven or eighteen depending on how you count. So number seven, then I turned to look and I seen the United States was a smoldering.

Something had burned it up. And down beneath there I said, but not in the trance. But I predict, remember this, I guess this is take two. I predict that these things will have taken place between now, 1933 and 1977, which gives us 16 more years if my prediction strikes right.

So, there is William Brannum's famous doomsday prophecy, vision number seven, prophecy number seven of the 1933 set. And it ends with the destruction of the United States, the utter destruction of the United States, and a personal prediction that would all happen by 1977.

And this doomsday prophecy, John, is definitely the most impactful of all of these prophecies on the message following. And honestly, the other prophecy. these that were listed in here, William Brannum honestly saying every one of these is fulfilled.

The prior six, as you look through these, William Brannum saying that prior six are all fulfilled. And the only reason he even tells the prior six is to try and establish his credentials as a prophet for now giving you the destruction of America vision.

That's really why he laid it out like this. The other six are just there to reinforce that number seven has to be true. And it's so problematic, Charles. I'm working with different cult experts as we try to help heal people that were negatively impacted by this cult.

And it's a doomsday cult. It's a doomsday prophecy. Every single other one of the other 17 or whatever they are prophecies, they're all intended to point to this one. It is because of the others that we should believe this one.

And when you are in a doomsday cult, this is not just specific to William Brannum. Globally, every doomsday cult fits the same pattern. When you're in it, you have a completely negative outlook on life.

Why would I care about this world? It's going to be destroyed. Why would I care about my neighbor? Because I'm going to walk out on their ashes. They're below me, they're beneath me. These are canon fodder people.

There's no self-improvement. There's no reason for self-improvement. There is always going to be war. There has been for, as long as history records, there has been wars. There will continue to be wars, as long as history is made in the future.

There will always be wars. And when you have this type of negative outlook on a entire demographic of people, this entire demographic has no reason to better themselves. Why not prevent the wars? Why not try to be, you know, try to negotiate?

Why not try to be nice to other people? The people in this demographic look at the rising wars. They look at them as the enemy, which they are, but worse, they see no reason to try to work things out and try to establish peace on Earth.

This thing basically takes away the reason for peace on Earth. And the people who, hopefully the ones in the message aren't listening to this, because they'll be so offended by the rest of it.

But to those people who are programmed and manipulated like this, they see this negative outlook in life as a good thing. They have been given twisted versions of scripture. Passages completely ripped out of context to believe this thing.

And what happens, Charles, when people leave this type of doomsday call, it's very common, not just with William Brannum when somebody escapes, they go through this process of healing and they go through this process.

assess of learning what is the real world, not this fictional world we lived in, but then they start going through series of self-improvement. People start painting their houses, fixing up, you know, things get broken down because why would they care to fix up their house?

It's going to be destroyed when the world blows up. And they look at other Christians incorrectly. These aren't the good guy Christians. These are the bad guy Christians. And even though the Bible says it's by grace through faith, they look at it like, no, they're cannon fodder because they don't believe our doomsday prophet.

And in the end, Charles, what this sets up is the scenario where you have a very narcissistic God. It's a different God than the Christian Bible. More to the point, you have a completely powerless God.

All of the other Christians who do believe Jesus Christ. And I'll say that again, who do believe Jesus Christ? God is powerless to save them unless you know this doomsday prophet. This is the only small group that's going to be saved from utter destruction.

We have a powerless message God. Yeah. I think you said everything there very well, John, you know, you and I know exactly what this is like. I mean, we were both born in the message.

We were raised in the message. We lived our whole lives in the message. And we know, I mean, I can remember, well, I'll never get to high school. The world's going to end before that.

Well, I'm never going to get my license. The world's going to end before that. I'll never drive a car. Oh, well, I'll never get a girlfriend. I'll never get married. I'll never get like you always live with the belief that the world's end is within a year to away at the most like and and so you take people in the message, the overwhelming majority, live their life that the world is eminently going to end.

So there is, when they get old, they have no retirement savings. When they get old, they have no plans to be taken care of an old age, you know, and it's sad. But that is the average experience of the people when they wake up and realize they're in a cult, they have not got any education.

They have no resources. They have no means to take care of themselves, right? The cult has entirely programmed them to be utterly dependent on the cult and to have no ability to survive outside.

And a lot of the people on the inside work for other people in the cult, right? And so the people are trapped in every way. And there's so much control as a result of all of this.

And you don't realize it may be at first, but as time goes on, you start to, there are physical consequences of believing that the world is about to end. And people experience, you know, fibromyalgia and all of these kind of neurological conditions.

I know where I come from, or widespread among the people, far more so than the general population. And a lot of... that is caused by the constant high level of stress that these people live under their entire lives.

Because, John, I don't know about you. I mean, I know that as you look at this last vision, the people, the preachers and the message, there's not a uniform way of looking at this.

I know different ones have different takes on how this last prophecy will play out. But in our sect of the message, John, we believe that this end of day's destruction of America was not the same thing as the end of days of the world.

And somehow, this was gonna happen before the end of days of the world. And we're gonna have to survive through this thing. We called it, this was what we looked at, we called it George Washington's vision.

The end of day's race war is what we applied this vision to. And we believe somehow, not simply that this was gonna happen, but we were gonna have to find a way to survive it, you know?

I don't know, did you all have a similar view that somehow you're gonna have to survive this coming apocalypse? Yeah, it's very different, depending on which flavor of the cult that you're in, which sect of the message.

But from coast to coast, they all had similar versions. I can remember my mother telling me that it was a curse to be beautiful because when the Russians stormed our shores and they started setting up concentration camps, the women were the first to be raped.

And they, I can't remember if it was my mother, if I heard it from a pastor, but as a child, I was mortified by these stories. They would tell us that it would be just like in the initial days of the martyrs.

They would tie people to elephants and just rip their bodies in half. I mean, these are the things that they're telling children in this cult. And I'm a 1976 baby, Charles. Whenever you're telling people that the world is going to end and you're not going to experience the fullness of life, I am in contact with a lot of other 1976 babies.

They were saying that the world would end in 1976. There was a large number of people who were in the cult who thought, okay, this is it. Let's get married and see what it's like to be married and have sex before the end of days.

And so you had this large number of people who got married whether they really wanted to or not so they could see what sex is like. And then it produced this whole world of kids that they probably didn't want in the first place.

And so now you've got this scenario where it's awful. There are children who are being raised by parents who don't want them, who got into this thing because they were falsely told that the world was ending in 1977.

It didn't end and now they're stuck with the kid. It is a very, very problematic. thing. Yeah, and I know all kinds of cases, just like what you're talking about. They got married. I know people who got married in December of 1977, expecting a 30 day marriage. And here we are, you know, decades later, and they're the most miserable married people you ever met. You know, that's what the, that, but that's what it produced, right? They literally thought they're going to have a 30 day marriage. And they took the stuff that William Brown have said and it, it ruined their

lives, John. Yeah. This ruined more lives than I can count this stuff. And it is, uh, and you know, of course, people need to take responsibility for their own personal actions, right? But how about William Brown? I'm responsibility. Right. You know, how much responsibility does he have for this?

He's not innocent and he don't, he don't get a pass, right? On this stuff, he absolutely played a part in that. And people in the message who pretend like none of this matters. Um, boy, I got a problem with that. At this point, I do got a problem with that. I mean, the message has left behind it a trail of destruction in lives of people. Absolutely. And at this point, it has, it has damaged countless lives. And, you know, the fact that people in the message, and especially the leaders who are the most guilty can't come to grips with that, you know, that, that really is

a very terrible thing, I think, you know, very terrible. And I should probably stop before I say some things that will regret. I'm trying real hard not to rant more than I already have. It's just so, it's so wrong, Charles. I mean, if you think about the other doomsday cults and what happened in the climax of those cults, I'm really, I'm really torn by what would have happened had William Brenham remained alive past 1965. Would they have ended in another wake or Jones town or, you know, all of these doomsday prophets, every single one of them that follow the same pattern that William

Brenham did for his quote unquote prophetic ministry, all of them ended in destruction. And there's a part of me, Charles. This is an awful thing to say, but I can't help thinking it. They ended in the destruction of their existence. They died. Some of them mass suicide, some of them killed, etc.

For us, it was in some ways, it was worse because we ended with the destruction of our living, our lives as we knew it were completely robbed from us when we were under this doomsday cult. It's, it's like the walking dead. I mean, we're still alive. Yes. And I'm thankful that we did not die in mass suicide, but think of what was robbed from us from being in a doomsday cult.

Yeah. You know, my sect, John, had a very elaborate scenario around this last prophecy. see, how the United States would be purged and lose its power in the world. And Raymond Jackson, who was closely connected to William Brannum, he's the one who taught all this.

Raymond Jackson officiated William Brannum's funeral, okay? And so he's the one that told us this stuff. And he taught that this seventh vision pointed towards an end of days race war. Like that's what was going to cause all of this. Immigrants from Africa and Asia were going to rise up in America and partner up with outside forces. And that was what was going to bring on the seventh vision, the destruction of America. And he'd say, Katie bar the door. You know, that was like his phrase when he talked about this. And he connected this vision with George Washington's vision that I talked about. And in my sect, John,

they believe that to this day, to this day, they believe that in very many people in my sect of the message, perhaps the majority are, they are armed to the teeth, John. They're armed to the teeth. Believing that this end of days race war, apocalypse, seventh vision thing is going to happen. And you know, the last year before I left, I mean, my pastor was even telling us where the heavy weapons were, where the tank of the humvees and stuff and all the armored vehicles were out west. If something happened, this is the place you

go, because this guy's got all the stuff, you know, this is, I mean, they are on the verge of very militant things, some of these people, John and, and they're all preparing all of the stuff because they believe in this end of days, doomsday scenario. And, and I know that's how my sect looked at it, John. And we, we believed all of this was going to happen before the rapture. And somehow we were all going to have to survive it, which is why again, so many people were armed to the teeth.

And think about the way in which they defend any plot against the government. Look at January 6th committee. I know people who are in the cult, I've seen their Facebook feeds, et cetera. It's a very bad thing what happened, whether you're pro-Trump, whether you're against Trump, I don't care, having people storm the White House and having our government fear for their lives is a very bad thing. I don't care who you voted for. I've watched these same people defend the insurrection. And yes, I agree with them. The entire majority of people there weren't there for an insurrection. That's clear. But there were people who were.

And I've watched these same message believers defend an insurrection because they're manipulated to believe that our government is against us because of William Brannum. They're manipulated to believe that in the last days, the, we can't trust anyone. We can't trust any of our peers. Charles, this is a free nation. We elect who gets in there. They have the power to correct this. But they don't allow the women to vote because of the women's vote prophecy. So the women are helpless to change things. But think of what would happen if they instead preached a...

about Jesus Christ in the gospel. You have the power to step up and do the right thing. You can vote for the right person. We can elect leaders who will lead our nation. That's not what's happening.

And if you take a step back and you look at the things William Brantum is saying, look at Winrod, look at Wesley Swift, look at all these other men who were opposing the government, what they were saying, they're saying exactly the same thing.

William Brantum has a very cleansed public version that has a lot of blank spots on tape. They're saying exactly what your pastor is saying. And it is all intended to cause a disruption in a peaceful process.

Yeah. And one thing that really got me towards the end was, was the way that it seemed like President Trump was playing into the end of day's scenario beliefs of the message. And it really, they made a lot of hay out of this.

So there's certain things that President Trump would do that was absolutely part of the end of day's scenario beliefs in the message. And in there, we thought, well, this is just the hand of God causing him to do all of these things to bring about the end of day's scenario.

But the truth is, John, and I found this out towards my later days in the message. There's a man I know him, I've met him several times. And he was actually connected fairly closely to President Trump.

And he is very connected to the message. His family have long time connections back to the message all the way back into the late 40s, honestly. And I believe, John, that Trump knew the things to do to press the right buttons to get votes from people who believed in the end of day's type scenarios of the message.

And we're not the only people out there that have those end of day scenarios. A lot of the laterary splinter groups share the exact same end of day scenario things. And I really believe, John, that it wasn't.

It wasn't a coincidence. It was not the hand of God causing President Trump to do those things, to have made the message love him so much. It was actually a political strategy to do certain things that would win him a vast number of votes.

So boy, that's something else. Well, Charles, this has been incredibly fun. I think I could talk about this one all day long. And I'm looking at the clock at some blue, but how far away we went over.

But there's just so much here. And if you're in the cult of personality and you're starting to wake up and realize it's something's wrong, hopefully we've said something in here that can help you.

But more specifically, if you're working with people. that are in the cult and you're trying to help them reestablish themselves in their new life. I think this will be of value. I know it helped me and it's helped some people I've worked with.

So if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-branum.org and www.ChristianGospelChurch.org. For an overview of the historical research of William Brannum and the Healing Revivals, read preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William Brannum and his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. Join us again next week. We've got a great episode coming.