Paul Shaefer

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.org.

And together we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Brannum and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals. Charles, this is the moment that I've been waiting for. We've gone through the history of Jim Jones and it's truly fascinating.

I think all of our watchers and listeners can say that, but this to me is even more fascinating and it's semi-related if you really stop and think about it. We have covered Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre and the people's temple migration to South America, but they weren't the only lettering cult that migrated into South America.

And today I'm just chopping at the bits to get into this one because this for me is one of the most fascinating topics in message history. If you line it up it's just about two to three weeks apart between William Brannum meeting and working with Jim Jones and William Brannum meeting and working with Paul Schaefer.

Which explains I suspect why they both picked up so heavily on the Doomsday stuff because he was very heavy on Doomsday during that window of time that both of them met him. Yes. And I'm looking forward to recording this episode too. We're going back to Colonia and the last time we talked about this in depth was in episode number 25.

We talked about William Brannum's overseas tour to Germany in 1955 where he first met Paul Schaefer. And maybe let me just recap just a little bit that for our listeners, Jon, just to remind them of what we talked about in that episode.

And you can go back and listen to that one if you want all of the juicy details. So in July 1955 William Brannum went on a tour sponsored by the Full Gospel Businessmen to Germany.

And he went there for several weeks. And the Full Gospel Businessmen who was most responsible for that trip and financing it was a man named Prairie von Blomberg. Von Blomberg was a German arist...

the craft who lived in Boston, and he's a man whose life mission was dedicated to helping German refugees escape post-war Germany. And Vom Blomberg did have a direct connection to Adolf Hitler that we know of.

He was through his adopted parents. He was the cousin of Werner Vom Blomberg, who was the German minister of war during World War II. Which would be the equivalent to the American Secretary of Defense, his cousin, a cousin to him.

Now there's a difference between being a Nazi and being in the Nazi party and being in the Nazi government. And I don't believe this man was necessarily a member of the Nazi party, but he was in the Nazi government for sure, so you have that.

And there's actually one newspaper article where Vom Blomberg toured Dachau with Hitler that we have. So Vom Blomberg, Ferry Vom Blomberg, and Hitler toured Dachau together. Dachau was, I think, if not the first one, of the first concentration camps, so Ferry Vom Blomberg would have been in a concentration camp with Adolf Hitler, okay?

So just put all that together. Now they weren't necessarily friends. I think that Vom Blomberg claimed he didn't like it, nevertheless he was there. So anyway, in Germany, Ewold Frank served as the interpreter on this tour.

So you've got Ferry Vom Blomberg, organizing the thing. You've got Ewold Frank, the interpreter. And Paul Schaefer, the man who's going to set up Colonia Dignidad, he is part of William Brannum's security detail on this tour, okay?

And this is how Paul Schaefer comes into the picture. And Ewold Frank was a German he lived in Canada during World War II, at least some of it. If you listen to Ewold Frank, he speaks German with a Canadian accent, which kind of gives away his time in Canada as well.

And so he probably wasn't directly in the war as far as we know, but Paul Schaefer was in the war. He was a Nazi soldier, he was in the Luftwaffe. And this is how they met William Brannum on that tour, where he held his meetings that year.

And that's how William Brannum came into contact with Ewold Frank, with Paul Schaefer, through Ferry Vom Blomberg, all in the summer of 1955. That's the origin of their relationship. To put it into proper perspective, you've got Ferry Vom Blomberg, who we know through message cult history, according to message cult pastors and William Brannum's inner circle, was a homosexual who, you know, if you take a step back and you think about him leading these laterane revivals, it...

It's unclear as to why he was, and it's really unclear as to why these men in the lettering joined with Von Blumberg in these revivals, because the man is homosexual, and he was very open about his homosexuality.

Laterane in general, you know, they condemn these guys to death almost, a majority of them view them as though they've got a disease if they're a homosexual person. So here's this guy who's leading the lettering movement into Germany, and you've got William Brannum who's being connected to Paul Schafer, the infamous villain that we're about to describe in this episode, but it's even deeper than that because Von Blumberg was also on the board of the family operation, the one that holds the International Prayer Breakfast in Washington, DC, and he was setting up similar operations to, you know, it is somewhat

proven that they are influencing to an extent the senators and congressmen in Washington, DC in the United States. Well, there are similar operations in other countries, and Von Blumberg was setting all of these up. He goes with William Brannum to these revivals in Germany and, you know, different parts of the world. Well, it's about that point. William Brannum starts talking about we've got offices in this country, in this country, in this country. So these men are working together very, very closely, and you see Paul Schafer, who after the office is set up, he is joining into this thing.

You've got E. Walt Frank, who's also joining into the lettering movement. It really doesn't make sense why these men came together in the way that they did, but if you look at the aftermath of their connections, they are very clearly connected through Von Blumberg and these revivals that went through Germany. So if you establish all of this background, this this movement that created Cologneia Dignidad in South America was definitely without question a lettering movement, and Cologneia Dignidad was in a lettering sect that started as an agricultural community in South America exactly the same way in which Jim Jones created his agricultural community in

South America. Now we have eyewitness testimonies about Paul Schafer in his reaction to William Brannum in 1955. So there's a man named gear C. Walt, if I'm saying his name right, gear C. Walt, and he gave a testimony to Chilean authorities when they debriefed the people, you know, in the 2000s after everything got found out at Cologneia. And so his testimony is available to us. We actually received that through Carlos Baiso and he talks about that in his book Lisekta Perfecta.

And in that document, Gierciwald talks about how Paul Schaefer and the other old timers there at Colonia enjoyed William Brown's meetings in 1955 and the impact that it had on them. And Paul Schaefer really liked what he heard from William Brown during those meetings and strongly identified with his teachings.

And after 1955, he started implementing various versions of the Laterane message that William Brown was preaching at that time, especially he especially enjoyed William Brown's teachings around what would eventually be serpent seed, of course, and the place of women in the community and so forth.

So those are particular ones that he very much keyed in on and used. There was another part William Brown preached a sermon on the pool of Bethesda while he was there in Germany. And there is something about that sermon that Paul Schaefer especially loved.

And from the eyewitness testimonies, the people from Colonia, Paul Schaefer actually referenced that sermon about the pool of Bethesda a lot. That was like one of his go-to talking points was the stuff that he learned in that random sermon on the pool of Bethesda.

And basically he took from that that every form of illness was demonic possession and that was something William Brown had communicated in that sermon. So any form of illness, any form of misbehavior, any form of anything negative was demonic possession and Paul Schaefer would rely on that sermon from William Brown to justify that belief a lot.

And therefore, when anything bad happened to anybody, he would assert they were possessed by demons. And so then that would then justify the activity to deal with the demons and the people. So he picked all of this up from William Brown.

And yeah, it's really interesting when you listen and read their testimonies, the direct connections to William Brown and the direct application of message beliefs that William or Paul Schaefer took following those 1955 meetings.

What's also interesting in the pool of Bethesda's sermon, remember this is the same time period that he's working with Jim Jones, William Brown is working with Jim Jones. And Jim Jones is being heavily influenced by the manifested sons of God theology.

And Paul Schaefer is joining into this thing at the same time that William Brown is heavily focusing on the manifested sons of God. And the pool of Bethesda is one of the sermons in which William Brown is promoting his manifest sons of God theology.

He in the sermon will... Imbranum says he was God on earth, he was God in the flesh, without controversy, the great mystery of God, for God was manifested in flesh. And Imbranum's way of introducing this theology, he references Jesus Christ as being manifested as God.

And then he starts comparing this manifestation of God to his own ministry, to his own revivals, basically to himself if you really take a step back and think about it. So this manifested sons of God theology deeply influenced Paul Schaeffer.

And if you look and compare what happened in colonial Dignidad and what happened in Jonestown before the climax of each one of the separate communities, they're both basically using this manifested sons of God as a means to control and manipulate the people in their sect.

Right. Let me read to you just an excerpt from one of these documents. So this is a page from gear seawalls. I would call it a deposition. I don't know what you would call it in Spanish, but it is a statement to the authorities when he was taken in by police.

And so his family was one of the senior, these were the senior, some senior figures at Colonia, okay. And he says in this letter, so I'm just going to read a section of it.

So this is the English translation. I did this translation through Google Translate, but it says there in the year 1955, Paul Schaeffer and some of his supporters participated in the meetings of American William Brannum, evangelist and healer.

They were very impressed by the large number of healings. Paul Schaeffer rarely referred to Brannum, but he did put his doctrines into practice. He constantly maintained that we were the only true and faithful.

Furthermore, he maintained that woman was an inferior creature. I don't express it so publicly because whenever a young man bothered girls, she was always punished, and according to Brannum, women had received their beauty from the devil to seduce the men.

So these are the kind of things that are coming out in these depositions as they're debriefing these people leaving Colonia, all right. So he is directly connecting the abusive treatment of women in Colonia to what Paul Schaeffer learned from William Brannum, right?

And this is the family of a senior figure, leaving Colonia. Yeah. And it's horrific if you take a step back and you look at the theology that William Brannum introduced about women. And I know we're going to get into this much deeper as we go forward in the podcast.

But Paul Schaeffer had a strong liking for, and I'm trying to be, trying to be g-rated for our audience, but he liked small boys. He treated the women poorly. He was molesting the small boys in Germany before he moved into South America and began doing the same thing there.

And we have evidences of multiple homosexual men in William Brandeum's inner circle with similar things going on. We also have examples such as, you know, Ferry von Blumberg, who were homosexual, who we don't have any evidence that any wrongdoing was occurring.

But if you think about this inner circle, Charles, you've got all of these men who are working with homosexual men who know that William Brandeum is surrounding himself with homosexuals. And then broaden that scope of this knowledge that's been withheld from not only the message cult of personality of William Brandeum, but the laterane in general.

These are the same men who witnessed William Brandeum praying for people who he said they would be healed and they weren't healed. Now, I'm not saying that everyone by and large was not healed when William Brandeum prayed.

There were people who were healed. They looked to God for their healing and they were healed. But there were also these people that William Brandeum said clearly, you will be healed and they died or they continued in their disease.

These men in this inner circle, who, number one, some of them were homosexual, did not believe the doctrine at all, were with William Brandeum. They witnessed these failed healings. They were aware that William Brandeum was making false claims.

So they knew this. But yet they continued, Paul Schaefer, to the extent he migrated to Chile and took a group of converts and created a community using this laterane thing that he clearly did not even believe.

And he's pushing this as a means to control the people. So at this point, Paul Schaefer is weaponizing the religion of William Brandeum as a means to control, manipulate, and as we'll get into in this episode, as a means to physically weaponize the community with actual arms.

And this is a very dangerous theology to manifest its sons of God because it has the power to control the minds of the people. You mentioned Paul Schaefer's attraction to young boys and I just wanna point out that was going on before he met William Brandeum actually.

Yes. So after World War II, Paul Schaefer started out as a minister in the evangelical free church, which here in America, we'd call that the Lutheran church. So he was in the Lutheran church in Germany.

And... He was basically like a youth preacher, and that lasted up until I want to say 1952 or 51 when it was discovered by that church that he had been molesting the boys in the youth group.

And he was at that point expelled from the Lutheran Church. And so he goes off at that point and starts doing his own thing. He then starts kind of becoming an itinerant preacher going around and more or less starts becoming a Pentecostal at that point. And somewhere after that expulsion from the Lutheran Church, similar to Jim Jones, expulsion from the Assemblies of God, he ends up running into a place that will accept a preacher like him.

Surprise, surprise, it's the latter reign, you know. And so he gets on board there, he starts gathering a little following again, similar to exactly what Jim Jones is doing in the same years. And becomes up and coming in the latter reign in Germany. And then, of course, when William Brannum comes into Germany in 1955, of course, he's got to be at the convention, right? And he's already an established figure with a little bit of a group when William Brannum comes in 1955.

That's how he manages to secure the position of him and his church. We're going to provide his security while he's there. And something very interesting, John, if you read through the tapes, where William Brannum talks about what happened in Germany, there's something that happens when he is in Carl's rule that I'll be honest, I just don't quite understand it. But something unusual happened while he was in Carl's rule that did involve his security detail. You can read it through his tapes or listen to it through the tapes or preferably read it through the transcript rather than the tapes. I would not recommend listening, but read it through the transcripts.

Something unusual happened while he was in Carl's rule. Some people tried to do something or another in his security detail had intervened to protect William Brannum, according to William Brannum. And this event happened at his hotel where he was staying.

And very interestingly, he talks about his security officer, you know, happened to be in his hotel room with him to protect him or defend him from whatever happens. A very unusual stuff. It is unusual. And remember, this is his security detail is Paul Schaefer. He doesn't mention Paul Schaefer by name, but here is this person who has this affection for small boys with William Brannum who has these homosexuals in his inner circle. And they're in the hotel room together.

And, you know, for me, I take a step back at this whole movement because Charles, we've been told all of our lives that this movement was from God. And the people who joined the Laterane, they were told that the Laterane was a movement by God. And it was an extension of Pentecostalism, and Pentecostalism to them was a move by God.

I'm not going to say by and large that every Pentecostal is an unbeliever or even condemn the Pentecostal movement in general. But if you take a step back and you separate the things that we do know about this movement, you find that there are true sheep who are true believers of God in the Pentecostal movement and there are true wolves in the Pentecostal movement and the leadership contains both.

Charles Fox Parham was also, just like Paul Schaefer, holding these little revivals and training sessions for small children. Apparently, according if you read the newspapers and understand what's going on, it looks very much like he is doing this to groom the small boys and he gets arrested for sodomy.

And in his defense, he clearly states, I did this, but I didn't mean to do it because I was sleeping. So I was like, I was molesting this child because I was sleeping. That for me, that's not a good answer, that's not.

It may have got him out of being convicted and apparently did, but that's not the way that leadership behaves in a Christian setting. You know what I mean? It's like, this is not a person that you would want to lead other children.

Now that he's done this, you see that this man definitely clearly has a problem. And he's recognized as one of God's generals. So if you separate the wolves from the sheep, you start to understand that this movement by and large had a component of leadership that was not inspired by God, was not in any way being used by God, but they're being respected as though they were.

And the real problem, when you take a step back and just examine the aftermath, the ones who are manipulating the people. The worst manipulation came from William Brannum's Manifested Sons of God Theology. They were using this to manipulate their followers and they had disastrous outcomes.

Yeah, and the latter reign is just especially prone to this sort of thing and the groups that descended from it because what they did, you look at assemblies of God or you look at even the four square churches or the Elum groups or the UPC, look at all the, they do have structures where they can as a group deal with the bad preacher in some ways.

You know what I mean? There is, there's an ability for discipline to happen and bad people to gradually be expelled out, right? Laterane has no such structures. Laterane has no internal ability to deal with the bad preacher.

It does not. It's actually designed in such a way that the bad preacher can thrive. He is untouchable, right? And nothing can be done about it. Like they cut out all of the abilities to be able to discipline and hold people accountable at a ministerial level in laterane.

It's just what they did. It's just a natural result of their rejections of the structures that, I'll say the biblical structures that some of these other groups had implemented. So that's how you get men like Jim Jones, men like Paul Schaefer, men like others, we'll talk about Leo Mercer coming into this thing and becoming leaders that are nothing but scary monsters, right?

Scary monsters can become a leader in this and be loved and promoted and once it's even, and at the point even you start to figure out there's scary monster, there's nothing you can do about it.

There's nothing you can do, they're unstoppable at that point. It's just gonna be a scary monster. And so Paul Schaefer, of course he joins. He is a Nazi child molester, okay? So you've got a Nazi child molester working with William Brannum in the fifties, starts his group and as William Brannum leaves, he comes back to America.

I just wanna point out, William Brann, or Paul Schaefer and Ewald Frank continue to be connected through those years in Germany. Yeah. And we know again through like the testimonies of Gears Seawall, I could read from there again.

Will Paul Schaefer and Ewald Frank knew each other from that point for sure? And we'll come back maybe and visit that a little more. But Paul Schaefer then and his church, he ends up, guess what, molesting more children, right?

He sets up a little orphanage, right? He is actively trying to set up a framework where he can get a hold of children. And so he sets up this little bit of an orphanage where he's taking World War II orphans or their mother that just has a child who's lost her husband.

He's taken them in and so he starts molesting those kids too. So this time, they go to the police to turn him in from molesting their kids. And at this point, Paul Schaefer vanishes.

And exactly how he vanished and pulled it all off is not precisely clear. It's 1959 now when he vanishes. But he supposedly goes to the Middle East for a short period of time. Again, I'm not exactly clear how people know that, but this is in some of the journalist documents.

He goes to the news stories that he went to Chile or went to the Middle East for about a year. And somehow, somehow this Nazi child molester who's been trying to escape under indictment, a wanted man by Germany, somehow the Chilean ambassador is contacted and offers him an opportunity to come set up a community in Chile.

And so how does that happen? We know that part is in the official story, but... What happened behind the scenes to make that happen? Like we don't know, I could speculate, but I don't know, somehow Paul Schaefer gets connected to the ambassador from Chile and invited to come set up a commune in Chile.

It's unbelievable. And I'll come back to that in a bit. I know I'm over emphasizing this point, but honestly, I don't think you can emphasize it enough. The theology of the manifested sons of God and in the hierarchy that's created in the latter reign, it flips the biblical model of church leadership upside down.

The word used in the Bible, in the original Greek for ministers, is very much the same as the word for deacon. And it wasn't that they were creating a church hierarchy. They were creating a religious movement that empowered the individuals to become leaders themselves.

That is basic Christianity. You want to join me. You join Christ, you start spreading the gospel. You too can be a leader by spreading the gospel. It's that simple. Well, the latter reign flipped us upside down with the five-fold ministry and they created this hierarchy of leadership where you submitted to the authority, basically.

And that's what happened. That's why this exists. Then you get these men who are clearly not men of God, who have leadership positions, who their people are submitting to them. And coming back to your point, Paul Schaefer takes his group that are submitting to him into South America.

How it happens, we don't know, but here's what we do know. We do know that Baron von Blumberg had strong political ties in multiple governments. We know that he was a leader in the family sect that was creating these religious organizations globally that were influencing political leaders to some extent.

We don't know the extent. Some of it, you can watch the documentary on Netflix called The Family and you can see how some of it works in the United States. But we also don't know the extent in the United States.

So you've got Paul Schaefer who is connected to people with strong political pool. Was it through von Blumberg? We don't know. Was it through William Brannum? We don't know. But somehow he was connected to strong political figures in so much that he was able to take his laddering sect and transplant them into South America and was able to create this colony in South America that was just so deeply tied to the politics in South America that Chilean officials started using the colony for other purposes.

which we'll get into in this show. If you take a step back, this is just mind boggling that this can happen. Yeah, it's a little bit of a mystery, but I do think that we are justified in being suspicious of certain characters of being involved, right?

Because it's their pattern it could well be, right? And I would love to continue to unearth more evidence. And you know, as more of these documents come to light, you know, Gordon and Carlos Basel, most of the documents are actually all still classified and chilly behind all this stuff.

If those ever came out, you know, we could probably get a little more certainty about just exactly how this happened. But again, there's very plausible ways it could have happened in the people that we know were involved.

Because like we've said, Prairie von Blomberg was actively helping people resettle out of Germany to other parts of the world in the post-war years. We don't know that he was involved in this, but he was absolutely involved in this kind of thing in other cases.

So it could be connected. So in January of 1961, Paul Schaefer surfaces in Chile, he could have been there a little bit before that, but that's the earliest for sure that they can confirm he was in Chile was January 1961.

And he somehow has access to a large amount of money, large enough amount to buy a bunch of land there in Chile. And so he buys, you know, I believe several hundred acres to start with, and eventually gradually expands to thousands and thousands of acres that they purchase there for the community colonial dignity.

And so he initially procures the land, and all of his followers back in Germany are still loyal to him. And after he gets the land, he sends back to Germany to start bringing them over.

And Geer Seawall, who this is his testimony, he was one of those people in the first wave that came over in 1961, 1962. And so they build, initially they build dormitories and the facilities for them all to live in.

And that's generally what they spend the first year to doing. But before very long,

it starts turning into things that are far more anti-abolical. And I do think it's worth also pointing out to our listeners, John, that 1962 and 1961, this is the same time Jim Jones has went to South America for the first time.

So Paul Schaefer and Jim Jones, who both met William Brandham within a couple weeks of each other, are both now coming to South America at the same time. And you know, I don't think there's ever any direct connection between Jim Jones and Paul Schaefer, but they're influenced to come to South America.

William Brandham has been preaching the Doomsday is gonna destroy the Western nations of Europe and America, the nuclear war. And both of them, in their own personal statements, point towards South America, being... part of the choice because that's going to escape the nuclear war, right? That is part of their decision making process to land them in South America, right? And if you think about levels of control and manipulation, the strongest tool for controlling and manipulating people is fear. And what William Brannum was doing through the latarine revivals and through his latarine leadership in his inner circle was he was promoting the fear of global

destruction through the latarine revivals, the greatest fear of all that the entire world is going to be destroyed. You will not only lose everything, if you don't join whatever leaders in place, you will lose your lives, you will lose your family, you will lose your children. So it is the greatest tool for manipulation. It is the tool that literally empowered Jones and empowered Paul Schaefer to take their commune into South America.

Now, at this point in time, Jones hasn't really fully established himself as the religion that existed during the Jones town massacre. We're on the early 1960s side of things. But what happens is, William Brannum is spreading the fear of communism. And as we've examined in the past, there's a strong link from communism to British israelism and Christian identity.

The early form of this was that Russia would join with the Jews and they were going to take over the United States and it would lead to essentially the race war of the Christian identity theology. By the time Jones establishes himself as the cult leader that's going to have everybody drink cyanide laced kool-aid, they've kind of switched because Jones has a strong

because Jones has a strong civil rights element to his ministry and he's a supporter of the people being condemned by Christian identity. So you've got Jones who is, you know, he's taking the communist side of things. He has a pseudo communist community and you've got Paul Schaefer who is basically working with the Chilean government to root out communism and Chile. Both are on the same continent and they're both kind of, you know, they're against each other even though we don't see any direct connections between the two. We do see this network of radio, towers, etc. where Jones is being broadcast, Cologne is broadcasting. There's this gray area for me as

to, were they aware of each other? Did they know about each other? We do have evidence that Jones knew what was happening in Chile with the Chilean government and that would have included colonial dignitaries. So there is a wrong possibility that Jones knew, but we can't say this definitively.

I have a feeling that when both of their sets of people and then moved to South America, they both no doubt felt that they were leaving behind the Cold War and moving to a place where they could live in peace away from everything.

I could totally see that being their thoughts. Unbeknownst to them, South America was actually a very important field in the Cold War. So, South America was a Cold War battlefield. If you put all this in context of that time, the world is going through this big division between communism and capitalism.

You've got the Soviet Union on one side, you've got the United States, NATO on the other side. They're each trying to pull countries into their camp. You see that happened through the Vietnam War, the Korean War.

There's revolutions in South America, Cuba is overthrown by the communists. Just globally, there is this push and shove between these two sides trying to bring countries into their camp in order to control the world balance of power.

And South America is one of those battlefields. And South America is at the time, as you come into there, it is not a continent that has a history of democracies. These are not historically democratic countries down there.

There are countries that have generally throughout their history been ruled by military dictatorships. That's the kind of the history of most of the South American countries. So they're not necessarily a communist, but they're not exactly democratic either.

They're neither. They're these little things that are their own little dictatorships in their own way. And so each of these countries are trying to sway them. And what you see happening is something called Operation Condor that you've mentioned several times, John.

The United States comes in through the CIA and they build a network. They get a majority of the South American countries to agree that we're going to work together to stop communism. And so then America starts backing their governments to do whatever is necessary to stop communism in their country.

And so in that way, all of these countries are actively trying very hard to stamp out communism. And the places where communism ends up taking root in South America is not these countries that have the history of dictatorship.

It's like Guyana, which was actually a British colony, which was actually still ruled by the United Kingdom. And the communists overthrew Guyana, which is where Paul Schaefer ended up, or rather Jim Jones, ended up going.

And Guyana breaks away from the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom lets them go and they turn communist. So it's these kind of breakaway colonies are going communist, but the pre-existing independent nations are staying very authoritarian.

And so the United States is backing the authoritarian countries to try and control the spread of communism. And so Jim Jones goes to Guyana, the communist country. Paul Schaeffer goes to Chile, the country that is ruled by authoritarians.

And so they're instead of getting away from this Cold War conflict, they actually land in countries that are fighting the Cold War or South American style. And you know, after being indoctrinated in this theology, remember most of this history that we have now, it only exists because of the freedom of information act so that we can get bits and pieces of what happened.

We don't know the whole story, but we do see some declassified documents, we can find them on the United States government websites. We know now that the United States was working to an extent that we will never fully grasp or understand, because they'll never declassify everything, but they were working to some extent basically to wage a silent World War III in South America.

In fact, one of the documents that I discovered on the declassified FBI.gov website or the CIA, I think it was, they actually titled the document World War III in South America. So you've got World War III going on. You have the message, the cult of personality of William Brannum in the United States, who at the time, you know, they might have had bits and pieces of news, but they had no idea the extent of what war was being waged in South America.

But to the people who had been indoctrinated with William Brannum's end of day's theology and his ever-changing prophecies on how the world would end, the people in South America, this was very real. They were witnessing William Brannum's doomsday unfold right there in South America, and they were literally watching what he said come to pass just on a different continent.

It wasn't happening on the United States as Brannum predicted, but there's nothing in their minds that would have suggested that this won't spread into the United States. So they think they're fighting the early stages of William Brannum's end of the world, and look at the two sides of it.

You've got Paul Schaefer, whose group started helping to fight the communists. They're basically helping to fight against this coming rise of communism that William Brannum's predicted. Then you get Jim Jones, who it starts to happen, and they start to see...

you know, maybe William Brannum was right and they, they commit mass suicide. It's, it's very tragic when you think about it, but they are living out what William Brannum claimed to have prophesied and there is nothing in their minds that would suggest any differently while they're living this world war three in South America.

Yeah, so as, as communism, anywhere communism starts to sprout up in South America, the United States, you know, along with their South American allies takes whatever actions necessary to try and stamp it out and, you know, kill it, which again, you know, when you think in terms of the global cold war, right, you know, it's debatable, you know, to some extent, but this is the strategy the United States chose to employ at that time.

And so the United States government, you know, was actively involved in overthrowing the governments of countries that swung into communism at that time, you know, through different forms of assistance. And as you come into the later 1960s, Chile has an election and President Alende gets elected, who promised more or less to be a moderate, but as he's elected, the fears are beginning to appear that he was actually a communist and there's fears that Chile is going to turn communist.

As that happens, again, we know this is, I think this is public knowledge, I mean, in the United States, that the Nixon administration, you know, Henry Kissinger and so forth actually helped support the overthrow of the Chilean government and the re-institution of the military dictatorship, right, in order to prevent communism from taking over Chile. This is one of the countries that they did that in. And again, I don't think that's a, that's just well-known public knowledge. Anybody who looked into it, okay? So this happened. But as that is going on, guess what? Colonia Dignidad is involved in this, okay? And again, we have the letters,

the documentation, again, some of this is from Carlos Basso, who's managed to get these declassified or I don't know that's certain that they're declassified, but at any rate, he's got a hold of these documents and they're in his book and I'll just hold up, here's one what they look like.

Now these are in Spanish and there's several sets of these. This first set is a letter from Colonia procuring supplies and they're, as you read through these documents, they are, they are having shipped in to Colonia, the equipment to produce weapons, including weapons of mass destruction like siren gas, right? They're bringing all of the stuff into Colonia to set up, basically weapons manufacturing plants in Colonia. And as you read through here, The person that they're working with in order to get a hold of this stuff is a man whose code name is Mr. Crefield.

Okay, Mr. Crefield is the code name of the man that they're working with to bring in all of this equipment. And let me just read you a paragraph out of here again. This is English translation from Spanish.

I could be this, I did this through Google Translate, so you know, it's as good as Google Translate is. But here's one compare graph says again on the subject of the pepper injections. We thought Mr. Crefield himself, we had thought through Mr. Crefield himself that there could be something in the United States that has the characteristics of what we need.

In this case, there would naturally be two or three or four teams which at the same time in such a way could make a trip here worth it for him and for us also.

And that's an idea that we hope comes to fruition. So what they're doing is they're talking about here, they're talking about bringing in supplies to basically to build out their factories. And this Mr. Crefield is coordinating things from them.

Here's another paragraph he says because the situation in the country is not like you may be fearing that waiting with great fear that at any moment the big one will be armed to the contrary.

We are impatiently waiting for Lenday's a phantom impopility to finally vanish forever. Again, they're clearly connecting all of this to the overthrow of a Lenday, the importation of the stuff needed to make these weapons.

And through Carlos Basso's the documents that he, you know, they've unearthed in Chile, they've got the bank statements showing the movement of money to purchase all of this equipment. These letters talk about the efforts to ship it and move it.

Mr. Crefield is the man organizing all bits of that. And we also have a letter. And here's just a look at that one. Here's a letter from Paul Schaefer on all of this as well.

And in this one, he mentions Mr. Crefield as well. And in this letter, which I won't read it, but essentially he is talking about the creation of the Serengas and talking about how Mr. Crefield played an important role in helping them obtain the equipment to produce the Serengas.

And then an upcoming shipment that's going to happen. So we know through these documents that colonial was involved in producing or at least attempting to produce weapons of mass destruction to assist in the overthrow of the Chilean government during the coup to overthrow the communists.

They were, and you know, I did not know the extent of this until I started working with Carlos Paso when he was researching for his book, but they were... producing arms to a level that I really, I did not even grasp. I had heard of things like the Iran Contrafare and I knew that there were arms deals being coordinated by the United States.

I did not understand the level in which this thing existed and I had no idea that it was being done, being facilitated through a message cult commune in South America. Not all of it, but there was a strong operation going on in the colony in Colony of Dignidad. You can find, like Hitler's hunters, you can find these examples of high-ranking Nazis going into South America at the point in time in which Paul Schaefer gets his entire operation running. He has what the Germans referred to as, quote unquote, the colony. When they escaped from Germany into Argentina,

they escaped through the colony. You can find this fully documented. I mean, this is not even private knowledge. It's been documented, documented, I guess, since about the 1980s when they began investigating this. But you have all of these high-ranking German officials who are going into the colony. You have the colony who, you know, the people, the leadership in the colony, begin becoming very technologically advanced in so much that they start making, manufacturing their own arms. They're Colony of Dignidad armed weapons, but they're German-grade weapons because these are Nazis that are in there and they start mass producing these things. You know, this thing that

was going on in the colony was so significant, yet so concealed to the public, that it wasn't until long after. I mean, even recently, we've started to understand not even the full scope, but at least a fractional percentage of what was going on in Colonia Dignidad.

Right. There are indications in the evidence that the weapons being produced at Colonia were being used to arm anti-communist militia forces in different parts of the world. Like, this wasn't just chilly that these people were arming, right? And the United States, this seems to be a place that the weapons are coming from for different things. Which, again, I mean, some of it was maybe for the positive of the world, right? Some of it, for the negative of the world, you kind of judge each case by itself. But clearly, Colonia is an evil place that is being used as part of whatever

this broader strategy is, okay? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. All right. It's definitely whatever has happened here had was a morally compromised decision, right? Like, I don't know if someone was choosing lesser of two evils. I don't know. But they, they must, the other evil must have been really evil for them to choose this evil. Right? That's the only way I can look at it. Either that or, you know, what I understand happen with this is that the United States government had these covert operations to fight communism and they learned through the guerrilla warfare in Vietnam war that the traditional strategies for war did not work.

They were playing mind games with communists basically and communists had figured out a way to just kind of circumvent war in general by using social reform into different countries to socially reform them into communism. So they were waging Nixon coin the term the battle of the minds, which William Brannem also used and and is highly interesting. But they were they were waging a battle of the minds. And the United States government decided that we're going to fight dirty against them because they're fighting dirty against us. But we have to learn ways in which we can

fight dirty that are outside of the norm. But we have to do it in a very secretive way because we cannot let the American public know the extent in which we're doing this evil thing. And that is not even an assumption. You can go read the transcripts between Nixon and Kissinger and they're saying exactly what I just said during the course of their conversations, which there are several to read through. They are basically waging a dirty war against communism. And they're using some very very dirty tactics. The irony is the dirtiest of the dirty was the lettering William Brannem message

cult commune, which is playing William Brannem sermons on the loudspeakers in the commune, which is led by a William Brannem cult leader in the commune, who's teaching William Brannem's serpent C doctrine, his doctrine against women, his end of day's doctrine. You know, Clonia is something else to investigate. So as you come into the late 60s and they're producing all of these weapons and then you have the overthrow, they support the overthrow of a lend day and Augustine Pinachet becomes the dictator of Chile. They are in a really sweet spot there. And the colony becomes very powerful

and very protected. And it basically turns, it grows exponentially and it turns into this massive fortress, Paul Schafer has now got lots of money from all of this. And what's very interesting is that Mr. Crefield, who is moving all the money and helping with the initial setup, see it's Very clear from these documents, he is a man who is still back in Germany who orchestrated a lot of this stuff in order to help put the infrastructure into Cologneia to then enable all of this to happen.

And so they are basically turning this thing into a fortified fortress, you know, they've got massive fences of barbed wire all the way, you know, 10, 12-foot high fences around it. They build all kinds of factory buildings.

They have this whole valley, they call it the machine valley, right? And all the people that are in Cologneia are working these weapons factories, you know, and other things that they're building there in the machine valley.

They have a query, they have other different things there. They also build all kinds of bunkers and tunnels under this thing. And it all gets heavily fortified. They heavily fortified it with guard towers.

This thing turns into, basically, what would be a private military base, more or less, is what this thing turns into with a brainwashed cult manning all of the outposts and running all the equipment and machine.

And so it's based on a private military base with ran by cult. And so this is how this place is from the late 60s through the 70s, through the 80s John. And all through this time, Paul Schaeffer is molesting children and molesting children.

They murder all kinds of people. You know, a lend day, rather the Pinochet, the government is sending people there to be interrogated and tortured. And the cult, Paul Schaeffer, is overseeing the interrogations, the tortures of people, which we won't even describe what they were doing to people.

I mean, it is horrific stuff that they did to people. But they would torture people to death. And they don't know how many people were killed there. They just don't know because towards the end of Pinochet's government, they dug up all the mass graves and did things to get rid of all the remains in such a way that they could never be found.

Some said they burned them all with chemicals. I heard another one that they took the remains way out to sea by airplane. You know, it's all along the ocean. They took it out to sea and they dumped all the remains way out in the ocean.

So they got rid of all of the remains, which could be used to count how many people were killed. But I know through Operation Condor, they estimate that Operation Condor killed up to 60,000 people.

So it's very hard to say. It could very well be in the thousands of people that were killed by this cult on behalf of the Chilean government. Yeah. It was a very sophisticated operation.

And if you bring it back to the perspective of what was happening in the... latarine theology, the end of day's theology. This, again, this would have appeared as though it's William Brannum's prophecy, alleged prophecies being fulfilled.

One of the things that struck me about what I read in Lysecta Perfecta was that this colony, see, the CIA started working to overthrow the Chilean government, and they started working, as you said, with Augusto Pinochet.

They helped work to set up the intelligence network in Chile. So you have the CIA, and you had the CIA, which is the, you know, the military branch of the CIA, working with Dina, and they were basically establishing espionage, so they could spy on the people, they could determine which are the good guys, which are the bad, and this whole elaborate, highly technologically advanced scheme to overthrow the government in a way in which the CIA and the United States could keep their hands somewhat clean, because they just kind of pushed the Chileans along in the direction that they wanted to push them,

trained them, enabled them basically to overthrow the government. Well, what happened was the Chileans under Augusto Pinochet started setting up this elaborate scheme of a network of underground tunnels, where they could take certain political extremists or certain political, you know, people who were in support of the communism, they could take them through the tunnels and they could whisk them off into another country, and another country under Operation Condor could, you know, interrogate them, manipulate them, whatever they did.

Colonia Dignidad became a torture and investigation center for Dina, and there is no clear evidence that the CIA was also there torturing people, I'm not saying that, but the CIA was training these Chileans on how to do this.

So in essence, you had the CIA who is working with, with this message called colony in Chile to help torture people, and the torture in many cases was a torture unto death. They would torture them so severely to extract information that the person being tortured died, and so many of them were being tortured.

Like you said, 60,000 across, you know, across this Operation Condor, not all of them were happening in Colonia Dignidad, but Colonia was receiving through this underground network, people from other countries to whisk into Colonia Dignidad, some of them were tortured there.

And so they had to start setting up mass graves, and I've, you know, I don't think they've ever uncovered the entire scope of how big this thing was. us, but you can see these photographs of these mass graves and chili that were a result of this operation.

And if you take a step back and think about what's happening, you've got this laterane community who believes that the end of days is happening. They've got this intelligence network. And one of the things, again, it struck me in Carlos's research, they were spying on Catholic nuns.

They had something like, I can't remember the numbers, like 60,000 listening devices planted in various places, a lot of them were in Catholic churches. And you know, why are they in Catholic churches?

I don't know. Why are they spying on the nuns? From a strategic standpoint, it doesn't make sense, but from a control manipulation standpoint, you've got the theology where William Brannum is talking about the Catholic church, working with the communists, and these are the bad guys.

And we're spying on these communists, people. It is enough to control and manipulate the message indoctrinated people in Colonia Dignidad to believe this evil thing we're doing. We're doing it for the greater cause of our little sect of Christianity.

We're spying on the bad guys, which are the Catholics. We're killing the communists, which are trying to invade the United States. We're fighting on the good side of the war. So it's very easy for them to do under William Brannum's theology, but for normal Christianity, you look at this thing and you think, how on earth did a Christian community do this?

Right. I mean, I think that's a pretty good analysis, because all the people come in there that are being tortured and killed, they're communists, right? They're the bad guys. They're the people who are the agents of Satan trying to bring on the end of the world, right?

So they're doing the world a favor and doing God a service in dispatching the communists, right? And I think, John, that anyone in the message would perhaps not be willing to get their own hands dirty to do it, but would be totally supportive of that, right?

I would think the majority of people in the message who would hear the general concept, okay, this is what is necessary to keep communists from taking over? All right. It was worth it. That would, that would, I believe, be a majority of response in the message.

I hate to say it, but I do. And generally, the message will support whatever means necessary to stop communism. I don't think there's hardly any limits that the message would put on what should be done to stop the spread of communism, right?

And again, it's not because of our Christian beliefs, it is because of the William Brannum indoctrination, right, that we would held those positions while we were in the message. So these, they are, they are in colonial executing one of the deeply held beliefs of the message.

and just stop Communism, fight Communism, prevent the spread of Communism with force as needed. And so that's what they do, and so that's what's happening there in their view. But through it all, Paul Schaeffer is just this diabolical monster who's enjoying torturing people, who is enjoying all of the young boys.

And what happens as you come into the late 80s, things start to transition in Chile, and Pinochet starts about a 10 or 12-year process to bring democracy back to the country. And he in the late 80s permits elections, and so there's an elected government.

And then he still holds on to some vestiges of power until about 1997 or so, 98 right in there. And that's when he really has finally lost all influence as you come to 1997, 1998.

But as you come through that period of time, as he starts letting go of power and democracy is restored in Chile, the government of the new democratic country starts investigating what is happening in Cologne, and they start discovering all of the murders and everything.

And so there's that piece, but then there's another thing going on too. So Paul Schaeffer wouldn't let the people rarely get married. So he was running out of little boys, right? All the little boys had grown up in Cologneia.

And so there's a couple things he does. One is they open to hospital and offer free medical treatment to the community. And through that they start kidnapping, or not necessarily kidnapping, but tricking parents into giving them their children, basically.

Yeah. And then they also open up like a little private school where schoolboys from the community can come get a free education and live in the colony. And so now Paul Schaeffer is getting a new fresh crop of young boys to molest through these things.

And what happens though, some of them manage to get letters to their parents because they're not brainwashed, right? They're not in the cult. Hey, we're being molested, come help us. And so the government starts, as you come into the early and mid-90s, starts getting reports of this stuff.

And in 1997, they finally send investigators into Chile or into Cologneia to try and arrest Paul Schaeffer. And so Paul Schaeffer, as they're coming into arrest him, he disappears into the bunkers under Cologneia and they can't find him.

And they come over and over and over again to try and arrest Paul Schaeffer. And he keeps hiding, he keeps evading them. And finally, in 1998, he just vanishes. And we know what happens, which they didn't know at the time, but heart-moot hop got a place for...

him in Argentina, and so he fled the country and went to this place, Hartmoot Hop set up for him in Argentina. And so as that happens, 1998, Paul Schaeffer believes the colony, Hartmoot Hop, has helped him.

The following year, 1999, who shows up, but Ewald Frank shows up at Colonia, Dignidad. And Frank from Crafield. Ewald Frank from Crafield, Germany, okay, and I just try to imagine this, John, okay? Here is this massive fortress of a torture commune surrounded by barbed wire.

A cult community that thinks the whole world outside is evil. I mean, how does this happen? Does Ewald Frank come up and knock on the front door? Hello, I would like to convert you.

I mean, how does that happen? Does this make any sense? Okay? Somehow Ewald Frank gets there, they open the gate, they let him in, and he takes over more or less as the spiritual leader of Colonia, immediately after the exit of Paul Schaeffer.

And he preaches to them, gradually converts them. I think in 2003, he held a mass baptism and re-baptize perhaps the majority of the community. I think there were about 350 people there all together, and he and that sermon session baptized 170 of them.

So he basically came in and converted the majority of Colonia over to his sect of the message just shortly after Paul Schaeffer goes into hiding. We have to keep in mind that there are various splinter groups of the message.

It wasn't that he was converting them to William Brannum's message. They were all Brannum believers, right? He was converting them to his sect, but if you take a step back, that even doesn't make sense because Ewald Frank was working with Paul Schaeffer from the beginning.

They were already in the same sect, they were already in the same type of splinter group. But what's really interesting, you mentioned, how do you just knock on the door? There are numerous stories of people who tried to get their families out, and one that struck me was a family in, I think they were in Canada, I can't remember exactly where, but one of the family members of the message went to Colonia Dignidad to live with Paul Schaeffer in the commune, and the family never heard from them again.

So they went down into South America, went into visit the colony, and the family member came outside of the colony to meet him, outside of the gates. They knocked on the door, and they couldn't get in.

If you read a lot of the documentaries, if you showed up at the gate of Colonia and knocked on the door, they shot at you, that was the normal response to people who came to the door of Colonia.

Exactly. How in the world did Ewald Frank get in there? Yeah, so this person comes out to meet them, and he's wearing... This long trench coat, it really struck me when I read the newspaper.

This is South America. It is extremely hot. It was in the heat of, in the height of the summer. He comes out wearing this long trench coat and was very short and brief in his answers and says, you need to come back later.

You can't come in now. And then went back inside. So the family member never really got to see the family other than this drone of the person that had been manipulated to the extent they're no longer even a family member.

Met them and basically turned them away. How does Ewald Frank get into this? There had to be some connection. And Gears Seawald going back to his papers, he actually gives us some insight into this.

I'll just read you another paragraph. Again, this is translated to English from Google Translate. Gears Seawald says an elderly couple who were very mentally flexible. I suspect that's not a great translation, but that's what Google, I'm assuming that means they were smart, I don't know.

Travel to Germany and were received as the friends of Chile in the community at Ewald Frank, a random successor, who had accomplished the task of his entire life in distributing sermons of William Brannum.

Upon the return, they had brought tapes of random sermons and related literature. And there they found support among those people who had heard Brannum's preaching in Karl's rule 50 years ago, and from then on, the community only listened to Brannum and Frank's sermons.

So basically, they completely, after Paul Schaefer left, they immediately switched over to only playing Frank's and Brannum's sermons. So it's almost like they may be purged out Paul Schaefer's teachings and just reverted back to the branch of the message from which they had diverged from 50 years earlier, in some sense.

And so I can totally see in their eyes that's what they're doing. All right, we took the wrong turn, we're gonna take one step back. And when we take one step back, that puts us in Ewald Frank's sect of the message from which we diverged 50 years earlier.

You know, I can see them see that being their inhabitants. And here it goes on, he talks about Ewald Frank coming and basically though, these people already knew, as you read this, it's very clear, they already knew Ewald Frank before this, right?

And they are reaching out to Ewald Frank immediately as the stuff is happening to Paul Schaefer and bringing Ewald Frank in as Paul Schaefer is leaving. So the community itself was involved in bringing Paul Schaefer in because they already knew and had worked with Paul Schaefer before or Ewald Frank before.

So I think the evidence really is overwhelming that Ewald Frank... I could have been connected to this community from day one. Obviously. I mean, and he's just coming in. And now here's the thing.

Paul Schaefer or Ewold Frank kept coming to Cologne continuing to have revivals, continuing to have meetings. And in 2005, the Chilean government stops him at the airport. And he ends up in judicial proceedings and he gets banned from entering Chile because they are concerned

that Ewold Frank from Crefield, Germany is the same Mr. Crefield in these documents who organized bringing all of the equipment in to set everything up to Cologne. So again, we have that in these documents that the Chilean government banned Ewold Frank because the government of Chile actually made the connections between Ewold Frank and this Mr. Crefield that helps set up all of this stuff in Cologne all the way back to the beginning.

In his book, Lissacta Perfecta, Carlos Paso makes a good case that Ewold Frank is the Mr. Crefield from the documents. And as he puts it in the book, he can't say with certainty that Mr. Crefield, the, you know, the redacted name that we have, is Ewold Frank, but there are some striking similarities between what is being established by this quote-unquote Mr. Crefield and Ewold Frank.

We have high ranking members of Paul Schafer's inner circle who emerged after the Cologne Dignidad was taken down and investigated, they emerge in Ewold Frank's church. These are international fugitives who emerge in Ewold Frank's church.

And we've got the communications between Paul Schafer and Mr. Crefield that, you know, this Mr. Crefield exists because of Paul Schafer's connection back to Crefield Germany. That's Ewold Frank's mission is, that's where the church is.

So there's these weird similarities between what's happening and what is being, you know, what is redacted. But Carlos Paso makes a pretty good case that it is Ewold Frank without certainty, obviously, but there is a good case.

His book is in Spanish, it's Lisecta Perfecta. I have taken quotes from his book in my new book, Weaponized Religion from Laterane to Cologne Dignidad. So I've got some of the information, you know, regarding the background to the colony and what Carlos Paso has uncovered in his research.

I've got the key elements as it relates to William Bram and Laterane in this book, but it is just so unbelievable that this Laterane community could suddenly after all of this horrific crimes against humanity has been uncovered on earth in colonial Dignidad. You've got the Nazis, you've got the, you know, the Chilean pinoté regime. You've got all of these bad parties that are working together with colonial Dignidad. And then suddenly there's this weird immunity for people who were involved in the torture. And they, some of them, like Hartman-Hop, emerge in E.W. Frank's Church. So for me,

it's significant. I can't say that it's E.W. Frank either. There's not any direct links, but Carlos Paso makes a pretty good case. So let me just, let's just say the status of this thing today.

A large faction and perhaps the majority of the people from Cologne, Dignidad, are message followers today. They're still message followers today. The, a strong faction, perhaps the majority of people living in Cologne, Dignidad today, which is now called Viva Veria, are message believers. They believe William Brown, and they play his tapes. Some of the worst of them escaped to Germany and are in E.W. Frank's Church. Hartman-Hop has been an E.W. Frank's Church. A man who, again, these are international fugitives. The bookkeeper of Cologne has been

connected to E.W. Frank and seen with E.W. Frank, the bookkeeper of Cologne. Hartman-Hop was the sec doctor who ran the hospital that what abducted the children, right, and provided them to, you know, and was also involved in the seren gas experiments and all of that stuff.

These people who have escaped were involved in child molestation, murder, production of weapons of mass destruction, okay. They are message believers today. They are in message churches. Right. I mean, it is that, it's that simple. Message churches have these people in them today, and then these people are message believers. Now, did everyone left Cologne is that way? Absolutely not. From what I understand, a lot of them are pure victims and have somewhat embraced in normal life having escaped, but a large faction of them are still message believers and are still in the message today. Because we're trying to keep this somewhat

g-rated, we can't really go into the same depths that Carlos Bazo did. But I'll try to paint the picture like this, and I think our listeners can understand. It's not just that they were torturing and killing people, which is bad enough. You know, this is not a Christian community by normal Christian standards. They were experimenting on how to effectively torture in the worst, most painful ways, and some of that experimentation- was on children of which Paul Schaeffer raped.

You know, there are examples, and Carlos Basso and his book goes into these examples. I'll be honest Charles, I had trouble reading it. What they were doing to the people in this colony and the children.

What they were doing to these people and the children in the colony gave me nightmares, just reading Carlos Basso's watered down version of what happened. And he also tried to keep it maybe not G-rated, but even R-rated for me was just skimming the surface of what this thing actually was.

This picture Joseph Mangalay, Hitler's Angel of Death, is one of the people that Simon Weisenthal, the Nazi hunter, determined that there was evidence that Joseph Mangalay was in this colony teaching them ways to torture people to the maximum extent to extract the information before they died.

That's the kind of thing that was happening in this colony. And during Operation Condor, the broader scale, you had not just this colony, you had other ones that were doing torture, but this was a torture center for this operation.

So you had, you know, this thing was significant in the grand scale of this silent World War III being waged, but these people who were in this colony, not all of them knew the extent of everything going on, but some of them did, and the ones who did the most, like Hartman Hop, the one who, you know, he's the one who is administering the drugs to the children before they get tortured and experimented on and raped by Paul Schafer.

This is the man who emerges in Paul Schafer's church. So, in our Ewald Frank's church, so this is significant and it's horrific. Yeah, it's really something else, John. And, you know, people can, there are things we could say are fuzzy, you know, in all of this, but the present state of things are actually quite certain.

I mean, it is absolutely certain that these people are today, message believers, right? It's dead certain. And so, you know, as we talked about, you know, the message really has no way to hold bad preachers accountable.

I want to ask, who's holding Ewald Frank accountable here? Ewald Frank brought murderers into his church and rapists into his church. Who's holding Ewald Frank accountable? And who can? Nobody can, John. There's absolutely no way, right?

There's a church with these evil people in it. Now, are there innocent people in there too? Sure there are. But these message preachers have brought Satan, the evil devil murderers into their church. Who is going to hold them accountable?

Nobody can hold them accountable and nobody will hold them accountable because the message is not designed in such a way that men like that can be held accountable. hold their position as long as they're alive, people will brainwashed follow them to the day that they die, and then they'll continue on to the next cult leader, right? And so the message is a scary place in this way to me. This is a scary place. I would, how could people knowingly go to church with this stuff, right? You know, God forgives people, but for goodness' sakes. I mean, these people need sent back to Chile so they can go to jail

where they're all wanted, right? Not, not harbored and protected in overseas country by message churches, right? I wonder how many message churches now across South America and Africa and Europe and the United States and North America will ask evil to rank about these things and try to hold them accountable. You know how many I think, John? Probably zero. No. Probably zero.

It's ironic because one of the arguments, each time that I published information on some sort of evil that's happened in the message cult following a William Brannem or its plenary groups, I instantly get this barrage of hate mail that says, well, the message isn't the only one. Look at the Catholic church. Look at what's happening in the Catholic church.

And they use the Catholic church as the example, but take a step back Charles. The Catholic church has had its problems for years and years and years, and its key problem was the authoritarian hierarchy, the people who submitted to the bishops, the priests, the pope. They had this this clear hierarchy of structure of authoritarianism, and that's why the Protestant Reformation happened.

They were also abusing, you know, children in the church. That's, it's a bad thing. I'm not going to say it's a good thing. The argument by these message cult followers in their splinter groups, et cetera, is that the Catholic church has this. And so it's okay if we have it too, yet they're the ones who condemn the Catholic church. But if you take a step back and look at what's happening with colonial dignity, this is so far worse than anything that I'm aware of in Catholic church history. I am not aware of them mass torturing, mass graves, arms deals, weapons,

seren gas, experimentation on children, experimentation on how to enact the most pain on an individual before they die that they will give you information. I've never seen that in Catholic church history. I mean, the tortures at Colonia are every bit as bad and worse than the worst days of the Inquisition. I mean, there is there. Colonia has nothing, you know, Catholic church in Colonia is the worst days, you know, it just you can't even. They're not even a comparison. They're not even belonging Christianity. I mean, it just don't even belong the the fact that we're even having this conversation,

it's just, it's disturbing. You know, it's just something else, the murderous stuff that went on here. And so, as we kind of bring this to a close, I don't know that we'll necessarily revisit Cologneia, again, before we end our series on this podcast, but if you want more, there are all kinds of great documentaries on Cologneia that you can go out and watch.

Most of them will not tell you about these message connections, but you take what we've told you about these 100% absolutely real connections to the message to Cologneia Dignidad. And you go watch those and you realize the message was in those and people involved in what you see in those Cologneia documentaries are still in the message today.

It's really hard to believe. And if you are Spanish speaking and you want more information, check out Lisecta Perfecta by Carlos Paso. And if you're English speaking, again, we'll weaponize religion from Laterane to Cologneia Dignidad.

I have a majority of his relevant information in the book in an English way for you to read. And if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at William-Branum.org and ChristianGospelChurch.org. For an overview of the historical research of William Branum in the Healing Revivals, read preacher behind the White Hoods, a critical examination of William Branum in his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Join us again next week. We've got a great episode coming.