Colonia Dignidad: An Interview With Carlos Basso

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannem Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannem Historical Research at William-Brannem.org and with me, I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend Charles Paisley, the founder of Christian Gospel Church.

And today, we also have our very special guest, the author of Lasekta Perfecta, and the expert on Colonia Dignidad, Carlos Baiso. Together, we're examining the history and the intersections in history between William Brannem and other key figures that either influenced or were influenced by the post-World War II healing revivals.

Carlos, Charles, I'm so excited for today. I've been wanting to get us together for a long time now. And last week, Charles and I were going through the history of Colonia Dignidad, and we basically skimmed the surface. We went through some of the history of Paul Schaeffer, you know, during the time he was in the Laterane Revival working with William Brannem and some other key figures which we'll discuss in this episode.

And we talked about his transition into South America, the reasons why and how the colony was established, et cetera. And once in the colony, we gave a high level overview of what happened at Colonia Dignidad, but our level of information obviously is nowhere near what you have, Carlos.

And I thought it would be good to bring you on the show so that we could have our listeners here directly from the source of the historian of Colonia Dignidad. So I'm so excited for this episode. I'm so excited to have you on the show. And thank you for joining us. I'm sure that our listeners are going to be very, very surprised at some of the things that you have to say.

Of course. Hi John. It's very nice to see you again and many thanks because of this invitation. I have to tell you for the people who is listening this and that I'm a junior journalist. I have been investigating about this cult.

I don't know something like 25 years. I live in Conception, which is a big city, but it goes to one of these compounds in the colony. I have used to work in two. two main compounds.

Besides that, they have a lot of properties in the main cities of Chile, Santiago, Corsoxion, Tiján, and other cities. So I started to know about this mother. I was a very young journalist. When the police started writing this compound located in a place called Quijón, or Buenles.

This is something like 50 miles north of Corsoxion. And that was if I'm not wrong in 1996. And when I started to cover this for the paper, I was working in those days. I was amazed with the things I saw, the things I heard.

And so I said, this has to be investigated in a very much long way. And I started to collect the interviews with a lot of people from inside the colony, people from outside, with investigators, with lawyers, with politicians.

And also I start very extensive. I think it's the most extensive collection in the world of documentation about the colony area. So yeah, I think I have a very extensive knowledge about the colony.

So I'm here and you can ask anything to want. Excellent. So Carlos, I thought it would be good if you took a minute and just describe a little bit about yourself, tell our listeners who you are.

And you have a book that is Lisecta Perfecta, which is about colonial digna dad and a mind-boggling history. I read it through Google Translate, but for our listeners who speak Spanish and want to read right from the source, Lisecta Perfecta by Carlos Basso.

And you can get it on Amazon. I'll put the link here in the video for the people watching in the video. Also, I want to say for the listeners who are on the audio only feeds.

Some of the words may be a little bit difficult to understand. Carlos obviously speaks Spanish. And so we're going to try to put some transcripts of the words so that people can understand it in the video feed if you want to watch it on the YouTube site.

But Carlos, why don't you just take a minute, tell us who you are, tell us about your book, where to get it, and I'll put the links up on the screen. OK, I said to you before, I am a young list.

I am also a university teacher at the University ofagon subscription, which is a large university here in Chile. And also a writer, right? have been working in mothers like human rights by laytons, intelligence, and organized crime, I said only for something like 20, 25 years.

And yeah, in the last year, my last book was this, this is called The Perfect Cult in English, La secta per secta, in Spanish. And you can buy this if you are in America, you can buy this through Amazon, or in a kindergarten, or by Apple, the Dichon.

And if you wanted this in paper, well, you have to find some story to who can send this to America.

This is the last book that has been published about Colonia, I think in something like 15 years. Yeah. When Portugal died, I think a few years before,

Portuguese first passing by, there was some one or two books, and nothing else has been written since this book. And this book, I think, is very important, because a lot of stuff, one of these, as you said before, is because I found out when and where the Colonia started.

The Colonia didn't start here in June 1961. Yeah, of course, before this, we knew that the Colonia was organized in nearby Bonn, in Germany, by the 1961, 52, 54.

But the real date is 1955, when Paul Chefer met with Werner in Germany, when, as you know, very much,

Brannem went to Germany for something like 10 days. And Portsefer introduced himself to Brannem, saying, hey, I got a lot of Brannem young people with me, and we can do the security matters, security issues for you.

We can be something like your bodyguards. And Brannem accepted. This was told by people, which I interviewed here in Chile. And this meeting with Brannem was something that never, no one has ever spoke about it.

I found this in a very weird, I sent you a copy about this, a very weird statement made by one of the closest friends of Chefer, a guy named Gerciwald. As he works, he says, we met with this guy, Brannem in Germany, he goes through, and well, Chefer was very, was, was.

highly impressed with him and he was highly impressed with a lot of stuff but I think that there are three stuff or three mothers, especially that a chefer took from Adam and implemented here in a very much larger scale than in the message or in the park or even in the in Johnston.

One of these was the idea taken from Adam about creating something like an FVI inside the compound. Adam, as you know, Brax himself saying, I have these tape boys, I have this little police unit inside the cart. Chefer not only copied the idea of taking

pictures and sounds every day in every moment inside the colony but he also managed to interview all of the communications of the people inside the colony with the relatives of them in Germany or here in Chile also and he also used to use this the information he got from this to make something like called intelligence cards. He created a real intelligence agency.

That's why I said to you, he went very much far than with Abraham. He has inside the colony and off is only devoted to collect and systematic size intelligence or information about the people inside of the colony and after a few years of everyone in Chile, the university I work in was almost all of the people in the I'm talking to you about 45-50 years ago, all of the people, the students, the teachers was in those files and in those files you can find, I don't know, people who work in the docs in the port, here in consumption, people,

teachers, people from the EU community, Chefer was obsessed with the Jewish people, people from the Freemasons, people from the artists, I don't know, singers, actors, actors, politicians, people from the police, from the army, from the navy, the air force, everyone in Chile was in those files.

Everyone who was one, who was something that Tefer thought that was a friend, or maybe an enemy. Everyone was in those files. And also, after the coup d'etat in 1973, when Pinicep took the power, Tefer got in a very, very close touch with Dina.

Dina was the name of the secret police created by Pinicep, something like a Gestapo. I think even more brutal than Gestapo. Dina was a very, very, very sadistic, secret police. Carlos, since you and I spoke, Charles and I have continued to dig because that's what we enjoy best.

And we started looking into, you know, more about Paul Schaefer, more about William Brannum, Ewald Frank, which we'll be mentioning later in the show. But we wanted to learn more about how all of this came to be.

And we discovered that one of William Brannum's campaign managers, Baron William T. Freire von Blumberg, who sponsored William Brannum's tour through Germany, was also a adopted cousin of Werner von Blumberg. And Werner von Blumberg was the defense minister for Hitler during World War II.

So there's some significant ties here. And while in the midst of this research, Charles discovered that William Brannum's security team in Germany, which would have included Paul Schaefer, now that we have the information from your book, they ran into some unusual situations there in Germany.

And Charles, why don't you just take a minute and tell our listeners and bring Carlos up to speed on what we found so that we can just dissect this a little bit further? Sure. So von Blumberg, who sponsored those meetings that Paul Schaefer was at with William Brannum in 1955, he was first cousin through his adopted parents to the Werner von Blumberg, who was the German defense minister during World War II.

So he was the head of the Nazi army, actually, his cousin. And so there was some interesting thing that William Brannum told on tape. And the story is, to me it's an unusual story.

I'm not really sure exactly what to make of it. But William Brannum claims that while he was in Germany, at Carl's rule holding those meetings with Paul Schaefer, that some kind of an incident happened where certain people tried to attack him.

He called them spiritualists at the hotel where he was staying in Germany. And he claimed that at his, that there were people who had to step in and defend him from these attacks against him in Germany and, you know, being able to connect the pieces together, it would seem like that would likely be Paul Schaeffer, and his church was actually involved in some sort of an altercation during those July 1955 meetings.

It's kind of an interesting thing when you examine William Brannem's statements regarding it and consider that that could have been Paul Schaeffer he was talking about. Yeah, of course. It could, the poor Tefer was always involved in physical fights, so yeah, he may be the one.

Maybe he was another, another people, but yeah, well, everything seems to point in that direction. Coming back to Paul Bloomberg, I think it's very, very interesting the connection, but Kononen and Niel always says that they were not Nazis, and yeah, of course, all the Nazis says, I'm not, and yeah, they were Nazis, but Tefer has one very, very unusual problem with the Nazis stuff.

And that problem was Jesus, Jesus was a Jew, so the hate, the hatred of Jews was something he was never able to, I don't know how to say this in English, to match up with his political views.

His political views was, I guess, no, every day, how do you say, pedics, the parents, the everyday parents, he gave to all of his people. But if we go to the Nazis, to the Nazis, but in Kononen, but Tefer was a very young guy when the war started.

He was something like 20, 21 years old, or less. He was recruited by the Burmese army, but he never went more than a corporal. He was a very low rank guy in the army, and you have to know that he was a very educated guy.

He was, there was no chance to, to a game, an officer, and he liked an eye, when he was, when he was a young boy, he was an eye, you know, very worked in the end with a friend.

So he was a blind guy and almost blind guys for the army that's nothing very good. The connection, the weird connection of Chaefer mostly goes by another side when he came to Chile. He was already a very good friend with a former SS mayor. This guy was Gerhard Mertins. I think they knew when in touch in the war they met before in Germany.

Mertins, if you know and I think you saw this in the book, Mertins was in the 60s, scientists and even the 80s, one of the most important weapons dealer in the world. Mertins was very close to the German B&D and the American CIA. But most of all he worked with B&D. In fact, he was a B&D agent. So the B&D was always in knowledge about what's going on in colonial India. And that's why the German embassy in Santiago always says no, it's everything fine in India. When the people, when everyone says, hey, you have to look

where to go and on there. The German embassy, a few years ago, it's fine. Nothing happened there. Why? Because colonial India was in the 70s and 80s, one of the haps used by Mertins to sell weapons everywhere in the world. That's I think the most clear connection between Chiefer and one intelligence service. There's another connection, of course. One of these has to do, oh, or excuse me, we're talking about that. One connection in this area has to do with Bolton Ralph, one of the most notorious SS assassins who came to Chile. He escaped from Germany in 1948.

He went to Guido, Ecuador. And after that, he escaped to Chile. He became a very good friend with the colonial. I know this because of the statements made to me by two former people from the colonial, and they say I was talking to them about...

an intelligence course given by the Dina to the officers of Dina inside the colony in 1974 and I said to this to his guy man this guy is with his name in in the book his name is Fax Azbar and I said how do you know who was the guy in church of this course? yeah of course Bartel Bartel who?

Bartel Ralph and I said what? yeah and his wife he says yeah of course of course everyone knew Bartel Ralph then he was called in this he has two dogs he was often very times inside the colony he was a very good friend with Chaefer etc so yeah but the Ralph was a very close a very close with Dina with the single police so the ties are very very close between all of them it is just absolutely fascinating after you finished your book and I began to try to study it through reading it in Google translate and you know putting all of the pieces

together I started work on my book for the weaponized religion from Laterane to Colonial Dignidad and when I came across this name Gerhard Mertens it I'd never heard this name it didn't mean anything to me but as I begin to research there is some real irony in all of this as you know my background and Charles were studying the Laterane side of things you know leading up to Colonial Dignidad well one of the Laterane prophecies that William Brannon propagated all through the Laterane was this notion that he predicted through prophecy through a vision and he said 1933 that if Mussolini invades

Ethiopia it'll be his last and that was one of his alleged seven prophecies of 1933 but Gerhard Mertens as I learned overturned this prophecy I began to study Gerhard Mertens and learned that he is one of the men who went in and who helped Mussolini escape and Mussolini went on to invade other countries so Gerhard Mertens is you know literally one of the men responsible for completely overturning and disproving one of William Brannon's prophecies to be false and you have Paul Schaefer who had to have known this working with Mertens so these men in this

connection is just it's unbelievable it's it's just so fascinating to me and you have to know that Gerhard Mertens was a guy who ended up living in in America yeah he started And his company, his company was called Merix, the sales expert in Virginia.

She's son, who's alive with Martin's died, I think, 20, no more than 20 years ago. She's son is the head of the company today. And the company is a real company. Today, there's no analysis about the company.

But yeah, they went there. And Colledinian, and we talked about this, was very close to the United States also. One of the most important guys from the Colledinian, his name is Han Muthop, who lives today with Mr. Clifford.

He was saying, this is a very weird stuff. I ask about this to a lot of people. And no one was able to give me an explanation about this. By the 1968-69, a chefer who managed to keep all of the people prisoner inside the company took the very work in the situation.

He sent three guys, three young guys, to study to UC Davis. I don't know why. And he sent hope. And hope was a very raver guy, raver junk, by those years. And he sent also two guys.

One of these guys was Hussein Siam, who was a very young guy. He kidnapped this guy, this junk guy from his parents in Syria. No, he passed away. I remember exactly at least. And he sent another German boy to study, to medicine, to UC Davis.

I asked to UC Davis about this, and they said nothing. They not even answered the question. But I think it's very interesting. But beyond that, the chefer sent these guys to America to study, to a...

I never understood why. Of course, Siam and the second guy, they escaped. They said, we're free. At last, we're free. We are not going to come back to that shell, never. And I know that Hussein Siam is still lives in America.

And I think... And I know he's a physician today. And she's a very private guy. I don't know about the second, but Chefer, excuse me, Batop, he studied there and he came back when Chefer says you have to come back, he came back and he finished his medicine school here in Chile and Santiago. I don't know why, I don't know why he didn't escape. But as said to you, we never understood why he sent people to America, why not sending these people?

If you don't want these guys to study in Chile, because you're a man, well, send these guys to you. It's, it's truly unbelievable. You mentioned UC Davis and, you know, UC Davis is in California and to the people in the latarine movement that were connected to Brannum during the later years, Brannum has this prophecy that this California is going to sink. Los Angeles is going to sink. And so California is kind of off limits if you're in the latarine and you're on the William Brannum side of the latarine because you don't go there, you're going to die, right? If California sinks and Los Angeles sinks in the area around it,

where you see Davis is, you know, it's just right here. It's not, it's not like they're going to Arkansas or New York or some place where it's safe. They're going right to where the destruction is going to hit. So it's, it's just kind of unbelievable that that's the place that they chose, if you know what I'm saying. And on our point, Jeff Martinez did have a very nice house, very close to UC Davis. Wow. I did not know that. No, I knew that very, very short time ago.

So yeah, you have this, but I have to tell you another thing, they not only sent these people to America, they traveled a lot to United States. Then not Chefer, Chefer was only in Chile, but the people of the site, Chefer, he's, he's generous. If you want to call these guys in some way, he's, he's, he's of features, right? There was a lot of turning to United States and there was a lot of money that colonial India hired in a, in the chemical bank, in banks in New York, and in one bank in San Francisco, I have never got the name of the bank,

and they even even got an office in downtown San Francisco. Community India. Really? Hi. Why is that? Why is it interesting? Why, why, what, what was so interesting for, for these guys in America, then, as you said, the, the, the land of the scene, no? Yeah, the scene, in San Francisco, oh, the, exactly.

And Charles and I, during the course of the podcast, as I mentioned, we've been studying British-Israelism merging with Christian identity, and you remember back in the 1960s, whenever this was exploding into the race riots and the fight for civil rights?

Well, William Brannum was on the side of the anti-civil rights movement wherein he's predicting this end of day's race war. And because he has these alleged 1933 prophecies, he ties it to Russia invading the United States, the United States going to be completely destroyed, and Communism is going to rise up, and they're going to basically the Communists will invade.

Well to the people in Cologne, who are influenced in this thing, they're seeing, you know, from their mindset, they would have seen, this is exactly what William Brannum prophesied. And by extension, you know, through Paul Schaefer, who's telling them these things that William Brannum prophesied.

So these people are literally living out William Brannum's prophecy in this little war that's going on in South America. And to think that the climax of William Brannum's prophecy was that this would eventually go into the United States and the entire United States would be William Brannum said, smoldering ashes.

So to think that they took these men and sent them into the United States, while the, you know, the commune in general is thinking that this is the end of day scenario that we've been told, it's just, it boggages your mind.

Why did they send them to the United States? It has no sense. You've mentioned that they were selling weapons through Martins as an arm dealer. Do you know the countries or the places where some of those weapons might have been going?

Well, there's a lot of information about that, Charles. We have information about that. They were not only selling weapons. They were building weapons. The colonel in the Al was, was a cult, was a concentration camp where people was disappeared, the people against being a chap.

And a also was a, a weapons, how do you say fabric, it's manufacturing, manufacturing. They built their perfect copies of Uzi, some matching guns of rifles and all of kind of, how do you say grenades, steel gas and we have talked about this with John, selling gas, even not only conventional weapons, they also use chemicals.

Weapons which are for them in all of the world. And we know that they sell weapons here in Chile, a lot of weapons here in Chile, to army, to Dina, and to private people.

But we also know that by the statements we gave by a lot of people from the Cononia, especially one of them called Gerjermicke. And another guy, I don't remember the surname now, but I will do it in one minute.

They said that they sold this, I don't know how to say this, cluster bombs. Cluster bombs, they didn't do the cluster bombs. Another manufacturing did that. But they were the people who sold this to Iran.

There's a picture, in fact, discovered by a very famous Chilean journalist called Monica Losales, in which he's seen meritins with the iron chaque and the head of the Dina in these new state chunks into Iran.

We also think that we don't have the consumer. We also think that they sell weapons to another place like Argentina, equator, and Brazil. But we'll have the confirmation. But we do know the surname of the webos here, Chile, and this about Tehran.

So immediately, whenever you mention Iran, and you're talking about a colony that is producing arms and arms, deals, et cetera, my mind immediately goes to the Iran Contra affair. And again, read Carlos's book.

It's just mind-boggling some of the things that Carlos has presented in Lasecta Perfecta. But so the Iran Contra affair, the history we're talking about is before the Iran Contra affair, right? Before, some years before, I think this was, no, it's not that I think this was 10 years before the Iran Contras.

And what happened there? And you have to know that in 1976, the American Congress passed a bill called the Canadian Amendment. Because of that bill, Chile was forbidden to buy any kind of military weapons from America and all of the weapons, the planes, the tanks, the tips until it was American.

So when can I manage to get this in the blue? of this amendment. Tile was in a very, very weak position in the very, and this is this was because of the human rights violations made by Pinochet, Dina, and we know now colonial.

So Tile has always been in a very hard relationship with the close countries, with Bollyah, Peru and Argentina. And by those years, we, we was in, in the ring of a war with almost, with, at least, excuse me, with at least Peru and Bollyah. So Pinochet was in a very, very high need of weapons, and that's why in 1977, with six, seven, they used colonial India to, to, to buy and sell weapons in areas where, because of two main reasons. One or three main reasons.

One was Americans, Americans was very close, as you know, with, with, as we know, with, with Chefer. Second, colonial was a humanitial in, in, in, it's a joke this, but was a, in legal,

terms, colonial was, how do you say this in, in English? Humanitarian aid. Humanitarian so, they didn't pay taxes in borders, say they, now when, here, they open a box from, with medicines to colonial. So, they, they, they, they used to send some Germany and from America, a lot of stuff to colonial and now when, here, so inside the boxes, what, what was in there. And when he had the, the, the main compound, it's from the, Chilean central bilingual to the, America, to the Andes. By the other side, you have Argentina. So, you can go by foot to Argentina and there's

no border, there's no police. It's, it's no very easy, but you can do it. Chefer, in fact, when she escaped from Conea in the eye, in 19, 19, 19, 19, she took a plane and she went to, and as food hills and landed in Argentina, it's really, so you can, you can, you can, sell anything or put anything in Argentina or from Argentina to Chile throughout Conea with, with no problem.

As I said, and I'm sure listeners can see it in my face, I'm just bubbling up, over with excitement to have you on the show, Carlos. There's so much information packed into your book that each paragraph could be another book in of itself.

And there's so much between the lines that I have questions about. Your book raised more questions than it gave answers. One of them, which I'd like to explore just a little bit, if you don't mind, you mentioned in the book that there were, it was an espionage center and the colony was spying on different places.

And in the lettering version of this race war theology, largely due to William Brannum, the communists were going to invade the United States, but also there was a component of it that Rome was going to be involved.

And this would end up in Armageddon, the United States being destroyed, Rome being the anti-Christ, as was common during that era for all white supremacists, they were strongly against the Catholics. So it's no surprise at all that Paul Schaefer is against the communists and the Catholics.

You mentioned in the book, though, he was spying on numerous Catholic nuns, which is just fascinating and raises more questions than I have answers because here's this war that's going on in South America, right?

And you've got some key figures, key individuals that you would be spying on, but then there's these Catholic nuns and why is he spying on them? And in my mind, I'm trying to weigh in the balance was it for the war?

Was it for this operation that they have going on? Or was it to manipulate the members into thinking, yes, William Brannum prophecy is correct? The Catholicism is involved with this, so we need to spy on the nuns, or is there something else?

Maybe you could just expand on that statement in the book just a little bit for us. Yeah, a different height of the Catholics. Height was something like he hated most, I think.

And he hated not only because of theologian resource, but only because in the Pinochet dictatorship, the Catholic Church was a very strong oppositor to Pinochet. So the soul, the different was convinced that all the Catholic priests and the nuns were communist.

And something like five miles from Kondania and there was an old church, then a very, very small group of nuns settled there because they owned this church, this chapel, with some rooms for the nuns.

And they started doing nuns stuff. Antefer was convinced that these niles were not women but men dressed up like niles with weapons here and behind the ropes and he started to spy these niles. There's a lot of very very well I don't know I think I didn't send you this but a community has a lot of planes so there's a lot of in the in the Italian's files that the Chile police found a lot of years after in Colombia there's something like 300 files about this dance really yeah I don't know something like a hundred of these files are a real photo that's taken by

planes from different sites about the compound of the dance the compound was a church very little church and house but not only in this photograph there's also pictures taken inside the house of the dance inside the room of the dance and it's amazing and there's a lot of pictures a follow-ups of the dance in public roads in in the nearby towns etc. Well, Chaefer started to intimidate the dance he went there and says you have to leave if you don't I'm going to burn this place or I will kill you what the nonsense what are you talking about and you have to and this is the same the

same thing that they did with all of his neighbors all of the people nearby the colony in in the two compounds were intimidated by Chaefer and he stops and well the dance of course didn't leave the place so a lot of nights the house was attacked with gunfires and one night the place was put in flames totally so when that happened the dance says okay we have to leave but as I told you this is not the only in this the only episode of this this type they did this with a lot of very poor people who lived in in the near-rise colony of the main

compound was an old farm very huge farm but when they bought this with the money they bring they brought from Germany but soon I started to buy another farms in the nearby and there was a lot of people living in these farms all between the land they were buying and these people was treated in the same way.

So you have to live. I'm not going to live, I have to live all my lives here. The next morning the house was in fire so the people was living. It was very, very brutal the way they treated the people.

And I think there's more. As you know, this is very similar to the park. As you know, it was a sexual predator. He was a monster. I think if you want to think of a real monster, my man, that guy was poor Tefer.

I have never known something like this. He's came from Germany with about 100 boys. He used all of these boys. There was no boy who was molested by Tefer. But Tefer, unlike boys from 8 to 12 years old.

So when this boy was growing up, they was left beside by Tefer. So Tefer needed new boys. And all of this, the colony, the compounds, the nature chips with the inverteens, all of this was an excuse to molest child.

Nothing more. So when the German boys was all of these boys over 12 years old, he needed new boys. And he started to install China boys to people in the fields close to the colony.

He put an hospital in the colony and all of the very, as I told you, very poor people. The woman went to the hospital when they were pregnant. And many of them were told that the boy has died when they gave birth.

But the boy wasn't died. They took the boy, they corrupted the local judges to put the boys in the sons of some of the generals of the officials of the colony. And they raised this boy in the same way that the SS raised boys.

All of them, with no family notions, in the colony, was forbidden to do words. Mom and dad, you can say mom and dad, every people about over 18 years old was called aunt or auntie.

No mother or father. No mother, father, no mom, no dad, that was forbidden. So these guys were raised, these children, these children boys were raised there. It's something like a chicken farm. All two years, in one bed, in one dorm.

And the same things happened with them, all of them were abuse. And when this voice was all enough to stop being abused by chaffer, and I'm talking to you about the beginning of the 90 years.

He invented something called the permanent jute, the Juventude permanent. Something like a goodwill program for the people of the song, of the produce, to send the voice there to be fit, to be extracted, and a lot of stuff like that.

But you can imagine what happened with most of this voice. He was a monster. And he used the William Adams techniques to do that. As I mentioned earlier in the show, Charles and I just explored Colonia, Dignidad, and specifically Paul Shafer.

We got into some of his background, how he connected to the Lateranian, how he connected to William Branham. And Charles surprised me just a little bit. I had not really thought through that until Charles and I started discussing.

But William Branham presented himself in these revivals as someone who could just peer into the very soul and to the hearts of men. And this is a common theme, not just in the Branham sect, but throughout Lateran, William Branham had this quote unquote gift that he could discern the hearts of men just like Jesus Christ.

And we see people like Jim Jones and Paul Shafer who are clearly evil minds who are working with Branham. And the part that surprised me I think the most was, and I just had not thought through it, Charles mentioned the timeline and according to the timeline that Charles is pieced together and I'll let you talk about it, Charles.

Paul Shafer. was involved in the molestation of small boys prior to meeting William Brannum. So, at this point, you've got William Brannum, who's the leader of this revival, this laterane thing, and you've got Paul Schaefer, who had he had the gift to discern, here's this man who's molesting small boys, and the timeline just doesn't really add up if you think of it from a laterane perspective, or even, you know, in today's world, the message, the cult of personality of William Brannum, maybe Charles, if you could just describe that just a little bit further.

Yeah, from what I have read looking into it is that Paul Schaefer's initial times that he got discovered molesting children was towards the, I think, the early fifties when he was in the evangelical free church in Germany, which was a Lutheran church, and he was actually expelled from the Lutheran church on suspicions of, or, or beliefs that he had molested children while he was in that church, and then, at that point, he became, you know, an itinerant preacher and ended up connecting into the laterane, and that's one thing about the laterane is it is a, a lot of people who should never have been preachers and who are terrible people

are able to become preachers and leaders in the laterane, because one of the things that the laterane actually prizes itself on is that there's no entry bar to become a preacher or a leader.

Anybody can do it. It's just a matter of saying you have a supernatural call on your life of some sort. So it's, it's very easy. That's how Jim Jones became a minister and so forth, and other people who have rejected as preachers from other organizations would find their way into laterane, and some of them like Paul Schaefer were terrible people, yet they found prominence and acceptance in laterane.

It's really sad. Let me ask you a question about Mr. Crefield. Okay. So I, yeah, I have, I have really enjoyed the documents that you shared with us. I translated a lot of them and read through them, and can you talk about this Mr. Crefield who was, you know, someone who lived in Germany?

What kind of support do we know or do you know that he was providing to Cologneia from Germany through the years? What kind of activities was he involved in with Cologneia? Well, we know that Mr. Crefield, whose name is Erwin Frank, as we suppose, because that's the way he's called in a set of documents I found out.

But Erwin Frank met with, we, at the same opportunity that Schaefer, that became the entire tip between the three of them. In the 1970s, you have to know something about China history, in the 1970s, in September, in the 1970s, Salvador Agende, a socialist, was elected president in Chile.

He was elected with a low, low amount of votes. So the Congress has to ratification or not the selection, and that was going to happen in October. So in September, a very wealthy guy from Chile called Agustín Águés, was the owner of the most important paper in Chile.

He went to Washington, he was raised in America, he was a very good friend with a very important paper. He was always a very good friend with a very good family. So when Agende was elected, Agustín Evers went to New York, and after that, he went to Washington DC, and he spoke with Donald Kendall. Donald Kendall was the president of PepsiCo.

He was a very good friend with Kendall, and Kendall says, don't worry, I'm going to talk with my good friend Nixon. Kendall was one of the people who put money in the Nixon campaigns.

And yeah, she spoke with Nixon, and he also arranged meetings with Evers and the CIA and the general attorney, in those days, and a lot of other people. So Nixon, after that says, okay, you guys, to the CIA, the CIA, he says, okay, you guys, we have to prevent this guy Agende to took power.

So you have to do what you know to do. And the CIA started a very weird plan, which never succeeded. In fact, the only consequence of this plan was a major assassination in the China people, but with American guns, they finished up killing the head of the China army, the general Schneider.

In this time, in this, I don't know, 45 days ago, when Agende is elected, Schneider is a Schneider. Polaría de Inidad sent a lot of communications to Germany, to merchants, and the people that the colonial has in Siegburg, and to America.

What was they doing? They were getting guns. If they was involved in those days, 1970, they arrived nine years early to Chile, but in 1970, they knew the plans to avoid again the assumption that they knew even that Elvars was in America.

That was a very secret travel. I found out about that travel, I think ten years ago, because of CIA, the classified document. No one else in Chile knew about this travel, and now we know that Colombiania knew about this.

The document, the letter from Colombia says, yeah, and Edward, they said Edward in Spanish, Eduardo. Edward is in America and he's going to stop this. But if he's not successful, he's not having, we have to be prepared to fight communism and we need weapons.

And we need a very good, very good friend, Mr. Keffa to help us. Mr. Keffa, we assume he was a, this guy, a well-frank, started to get guns and miniatures from four Colombians in Germany.

Why can't we assume that Mr. Keffa was a well-frank, it's very simple. The Colombiania didn't have any kind of relation with the city called Keffa in Germany. All of the people of the Colombiania came from two towns, Grownau and Singapore.

Keffa has even built a name in the original people from the Colombiania. And after that, we can assume, of course, that this relation is very old, because when Tefer was escaped from Colombia in 1997, a few years after that, we knew that a new preacher has arrived.

And this preacher was a well-frank. He was a lot of times inside the Grownia. He baptized something like a hundred and more people, including Harmut Hoppe. And finally, the Chilean government says, okay, this happened in 2005, a well-frank was in Santiago Airport.

He was arriving from Germany, and the police says, no, you can go inside the country. He says, why? I'm a very respected person from Germany. And the police says, oh, I'm sorry, but in the computer says you have been banned to get inside the country.

country because of the interior ministry. His lawyer put a Jewish charity action and pay or requires obvious corpus. And the China justice took nine years to solve this. And when the China justice role, they say, okay, there's no evidence that this guy is afraid to the country, so he can get inside. But we as far as we know, he has never came back. But in the in the in the policy about the the entries of Frank to tell others something like say six or seven entries between 1999 and 205 if I don't remember that. And after that, when there are two main and important

people escape from justice until he who has never been rich or has been rich, but they have escaped. One of this is Harold Hop. Hop is a convicted guy here in China. He's convicted as an accomplice of a child abuse. And there's another guy who managed to all of the legal issues in Colonia. All of these guys and other guys have been seen in heaven and have been helped by by a one-fang soul.

One of the things that we explored briefly in the last episode, Carlos, Charles and I started discussing Hartman Hop because he is really significant not just for understanding what happened at Colonia Dignidad, but in tying all of this together with William Brown and the Laterane movement. And then after Paul Schaefer's death ties back to Germany. And you know, we just skimmed the surface again. Maybe it would be good if you could just dive a little bit deeper with Hartman Hop and explain the significance of Hartman Hop to this entire story. Hop was the only the only one guy in the

Colonia. He was something like a head of the State Department of Colonia. He was the guy in charge of diplomacy. He was the guy in charge of talking with media. He was the guy in charge of talking with politicians, with ministers. But he also did a lot of very good stuff. You I don't know if you have heard about what it's it's momentum in the in the book. One of the telepersion.

It's called the Guadalphite. He died in very suspicious ways in 1982. He was, there's a judiciary statement that says that he was assassinated by the CNI. The CNI was there's the police formerly known as Dina.

Another judiciary rule says that there's no evidence about that, but we know that something weird happened with President Frey. In that investigation, the police found out that some physicians from the Catholic University in Chile did fail.

I don't know how to say this, this lab rats, this white lab rats, to Hermotop Hop was a guy who used to go to the Catholic lab in the Catholic Church in the Catholic University to buy these animals only used to save his face with this because of you are doing something poison or I don't know, you are working with viruses or chemicals.

But what was the guy in church of a hospital? Why was he in need of these animals? Yeah, it's like biological weapons maybe. Biological weapons or chemical weapons? We know. We know, I don't do this before, we know that in 1966, that means five years after the colonial settlement in Chile, there was a very, very unusual death of a year, a year who tried to escape.

And one day, the chief assess the Ursula that was the name of these years, I'm talking about the 21-year-old here. And he says, well, we are very sad because Ursula was now, she tried to escape and she fell into a river and was down, we are very sad.

But the people in the colony knew that the river, he says, you know, Ken which is in the side of the colony, you can see the river from the main road, this was in summer and the river was not more than 50 centimeters high.

So no one getting down there was very high. And the old people in colonial access and when I have talked with a lot of sources from the colony out from there. the investigators everyone says she was killed with syring and there's another episodes after that of people killed with syring so they they lose this chemical before dina dina also produced syring and they killed people also with syring and we know that by 1997 colonial steel has syring gas in the in the campo they send two young guys to Santiago to kill one lawyer with syring but they will find the lawyer they these guys this this was in the in the in the

last days of the colonial soul the guys who sent to Santiago they had never been Santiago Santiago sent eight million people cities a very very huge city and they have never been there because they were all all of his life inside the campo and went to very very tiny towns near the campo so they they they were lost lost in the city and they came back but yeah they they go first after that we we went there with a bottle of syring gas this is I mean this is really amazing stuff I'm I'm just fascinated listening to everything that you say it is just it it blows my mind

one question I have is based on the things that I've read and looked into it seems like a faction of the people who live in a colonial or via baviera today a faction of them are still followers of the message and still following William Brannum's teachings today do you know can you confirm if that's true are there still followers of William Brannum living in colonial today most of the people who still live in colonial they they are followers of the later right moment and when they most of them not even have heard about William Brannum

Tefer took this this ideas this this techniques of mental control and a lot of stuff and says these are my ideas but okay but you have to note also that when Edward Frank stopped being in colonial India when when the government says you can go inside to the two young guys from colonial where all the priests I don't know how when and where I think they they they went to to Germany and and they are the guys who preach inside the colonial today and they are absolutely the guys from the other way in the moment I think what you described is confirming what I was

understanding the way at this works, this lettering movement and all of its various splinter groups, et cetera. You have William Brannum who was the central figure of the movement for a period of time and then it just splintered into numerous cults and sects and sub-sects and what generally happens especially within the most destructive ones is that William Brannum slowly becomes replaced by whoever is the leader of the splinter group and that person rises up to become the central figure and William Brannum basically at that point just becomes a conduit for the new central figure and it makes me wonder, it makes me curious

about the structure of what's happening in colonial Dignidad now. They claim to be William Brannum's successor basically. They're the next persona to be followed after William Brannum is gone. Right, so the question that I have now that is bubbling to the surface, the way that most of these groups work, the destructive ones, William Brannum becomes, like I said, the conduit for the next central figure, the person who's leading the splinter group.

We have examples of this with Leo Mercer who rose up to be the sect in the park and Prescott abused several men, women, children, et cetera. What happens whenever the new central figure dies is one of a few different options.

The group might wake up and then just suddenly it doesn't make sense to them anymore because their leader has died and everything he said cannot be and the sect just kind of implodes. Or a new central figure is groomed and emerges basically as the new central figure to replace the other central figure who replaced William Brannum as the central figure.

The fact that Ewald Frank came and baptized these people in colonial Dignidad, I think that's significant to think through because Ewald Frank is hardcore William Brannum cult of personality. Even though he is somewhat of a central figure of his own group, he is still heavily preaching William Brannum.

So that tells me that this group is being groomed for another William Brannum explosion into a new central figure and I'm wondering what are your thoughts on the current sect now? Is it a situation where another leader may emerge and maybe they're not mentioning William Brannum at this point in time, but now they've got Ewald Frank who is converting them back into the original sect are these new leaders going to emerge as a new central figure for the group or they're going to emerge as William Brannum, faithful, what's gonna happen to these people?

We don't know. that jet because you have to understand that when chefer died a lot of stuff happened the first and most important thing that happened when chefer died was that a lot of people who hasn't spoke before says to the police okay I'm ready to tell you everything I have seen here or did in the colony that's why we the police found find out the intelligence files that's why they found the weapons it's in 205 they found the second largest weapons catcher has ever found into it amazing season you can imagine the amount of weapons and chemicals they found there they found

all of the chemicals you need to do something else by instance but they found so much in guns they found rockets they found low launchers they found a huge amount of chemicals and they found out another stuff they found out let me see this is a pencil they found out a pencil in guns like this this is a pencil it's a real pencil but they found out pencil guns which you can touch in the bottom of the of the the gun and you send a bullet to it's like a wand yeah and a lot of

another stuff so that that was something like an immigration for a lot of people the people who have escaped from Colombia but because chefer was alive they were mentally cuffed even even when they they was out they they were living in conception in Santiago or in Germany or another place they they they they was not able they weren't excuse me not able to say nothing but when chefer died they says okay this is the moment I can I can speak that was one one thing the other thing that happened is that started a very hard a fight about the money the there's a lot of money

who no one knows where is it the chefer chefer in fact he he he was the country idea got a lot of money because there was a lot of income sources the weapons of course the pensions the the money that the Germany sent every month to the people some more from the old to the old people got a lot of money The Tiran Embassy, the nearer to Chepher.

Chepher was the one who took the checks and went to Vancouver. He sent someone. And all of that money was the nearer to bank accounts of the colonial. They also has a lot of bank incomes.

They have a... They have a factory. They have farms. They have a lot of staff. So there's a lot of money. And there's a lot of fights between the sons of the officials trying to get something about that money.

So until now we have not seen yet or we don't know yet. Who is the guy? But it's a very, very excellent question. And I have thought about this and I have asked about this.

But there are something like seven or eight guys who are trying to regain the nearer. But no one of this has the power, the Chepher game. Chepher was a very, very, very weird guy.

I have seen a lot of videos of William Adam. I talked with you about this guy. I heard his speeches. I read about this. And Adam was a very charismatic guy. I think he was a very, very soft guy.

He was very kind with people. Chepher was the antithesis about this. Chepher was a brutal guy. He was a violent guy. He was a aggressive guy. He was a vulgar people. But I don't know why he managed to keep all of these people under his dominion by about 40, 15 years.

Yeah. My deep concern now, as I think through the colony that exists today and now knowing that, you know, they're still this component of the message in the colony, it deeply concerns me. I'm wondering how the Chilean government is handling this.

Are there any efforts that you're aware of to help deprogram or maybe not de-convert but help the people understand what it is that they were in? Do you know, are they offering any psychological assistance or any sort of therapy or are they in Chile?

Are they taking care of the survivors of this thing? Maybe you could tell us a little bit about just what's being done to help the survivors of colonial dignity. Oh, and these people is in her body.

In very bad situation, most of the survivors who have been in Chile are almost abandoned by the state. Most of them have some very low, we hear Chile are called, personally, as it's something like a bonus that the state gives you every month.

But I don't know, something like $200, $300 in my mouth, Chile is a very expensive country, which is not very cheap to live here. I think the cost of living here is very similar to the state's, so how do you live with that money is nothing.

And there are no state programs to deprive these people or to help them to integrate into the Chile society because you have to understand that I can tell you this with name. I have interviewed a lot of times and I call Dieter Charles.

But when you hear Dieter Charles, you think of a German, Dieter is a Chilean guy. He was kidnapped when he was born. He was raised in Cononia. He was forced to work from six or five years old until he escaped from Coni when he was 40.

His back is broken because of the heavy weight he used to live every day. He was the one who told me that the night was the worst moment every day in the China's life because Chephra was obsessed with the genitals and with Master of Nature.

So the guys who was inside the dorm of the boys was all night looking for someone who was touching himself. And when they find out a boy, I don't know, touching himself or they believe he was doing that.

The boy was thrown out of the bed. He was beaten very hard. He was sent to sleep to a farm, to a country, or he was called water. He was, he was determined every night.

And Dieter, he almost does not speak Spanish. And he lives with this very little money. He can't work because he does not understand the language. It's very, very hard situation. And the German government has offered a lot of help, but there's a very few help who has arrived to the survivors.

There's a lot of lawsuits also against the Chilean government and German government seeking for some kind of reparation. Do you think there's any hope in the future that the Chilean government might declassify or make available more of the government records on what they know was happening in Cologneia and the situation there as it relates to the arms purchases and other activities?

You have to know that Chile, like in the States, the government is separated from the U.D. cherry branch. So most of the information we know is the information that we find out in the investigations by justice.

So most of the information, I think we know that. I just thought you were talking about the intelligence information. And the intelligence information for those years, it's information that was held by Dina. Dina was the main actor of the intelligence of those years and what happened when we were going to talk about the United States once again.

In 1976, Dina sent to Washington D.C. a group of agents, lived by an American citizen, but he works for the Chileans. He was not a CIA agent. Many people have said that, but that's not true. Called Michael Tauley.

And they were sent to kill the former Chilean ambassador in America, who was living in Washington D.C., and that was in September 1976. After that, America said, we don't want anything to do with Pinochet.

You have to give a mind that the group that I 1973 was supported by Nixon. But Jimmy Carter, after that says, okay, we're done with Pinochet. And then write the Kennedy Amendment. And America says we are not going to send more people there. We are going to put a lot of economic sanctions against Chile and other stuff like this.

Because of that. Finally, in 1978 Chile sent to America this guy Michael Tauley. Michael Tauley is a guy who knows a lot about colonial India. He is the guy who bought in Germany and got the Saeen equipment for dinner and he was helped by the colonial India to buy and send this equipment to Chile.

So Tauley was sent to America. He was held in prison for four years in America because of the little year and running off with an American citizen. He was held for four years in prison until today he is in, under the, I don't know how do you say this, a wooden protection program from the FBI.

Okay. After that, he was the head of dinner. He knew that he was done. When Pinochet took Tauley and sent him to America, Pinochet said, okay, I am the next one. So, before he was expelled from dinner, he took a lot of, no one knows exactly what was inside a lot of bags.

There are some versions that says that he sells something like 18 bags from Puntenas in the south of Chile, in a book, in a chip, to Germany. And no one knows what happened and where, or where are these bags. We know, or we think, we know that these bags were sent to Siegbul to an Indian compound in Germany.

And we think, when I say we are talking to me and a lot of people who have investigated this, including people from the police and our journalists, we think that these bags contain all of the intelligence files from dinner.

If we find some of those files, we are going to know what happened and we are going to be able to answer the charge's question, but until that, I think there is no hope.

Carlos, this has been incredibly fun and exciting for us, and I think everybody can see it on my face. I could continue this conversation probably for the rest of the day. But I wanted to just thank you for your research and all of the help. You have no idea the number of people that you have helped globally by presenting this research and making this connection between Colonia Dignidad.

and the laterane and to extension William Brannum and all of these different splencher groups. I began researching Colonia Dignidad years ago and I came across the name William Brannum but I really could not put all the pieces together until I came across your book, Lysecta Perfecta.

And you know, when we started talking through some of that as you're writing the book, I was starting to just, you know, skim the surface of putting all the pieces together I just want to say thank you for your research and on behalf of everybody who is working with us and interested in our research.

I wanted to say thank you for all of the work that you've done. I also only want to thank you, John, because of all the help you gave me when I was investigating the book.

And I have to say that I was very amazed when I found out the relationship between Tefer, Brannum, Frank, and all of the theological questions

that nice beneath this guy. Well, I think our listeners are going to be incredibly surprised because Charles and I, we talk a lot. And in this episode, I've just been so fascinated with what you have to say that I really was hard for me to speak.

I just wanted to sit back and listen and I honestly could continue listening all day. Maybe for our Spanish speaking and reading people, if you could hold your book up and tell us again, where you can get less sect of perfecta and I'll put the link there on the screen.

But if you speak Spanish, I highly recommend this book. It will just blow your mind when you understand how much has been covered up in these laterane revivals. Carlos, if you hold the book up and I'll put it on the screen.

As I told you before, this book can be by in digital way, by Amazon or by Apple. If you want a hard copy, you have to buy this in Chile. But it's not so easy.

So if you speak Spanish, I highly recommend less sect of perfecta. It is an excellent book. I read it through Google Translate and it was worth the effort for me to put into and reading that through Google Translate is incredibly, incredibly powerful book with a lot of information mind blowing.

If you do not speak Spanish, I have compiled some of the things that Carlos Bezos has researched and put into the book and I have put it into my new book, Weaponized Religion from Laterane to Colonia, Dignidad.

The parts of the book that were relevant to William Brannum and the Laterane Revivals, you'll find them in the footnote. You'll see some references to Carlos's book and his research. And though it is from Google Translate, you'll see the English translations.

And you can... at least piece together what he's trying to say through the translations that are in the book, but Carlos I want to say if they if they ever do find these boxes and we ever have a chance to go through the contents of what's missing I would love to have you back again and we would go through it again and maybe if you could continue searching and help identify these boxes so that we can do this again of course I'm I'm going to search for those bags for I don't know how many long times

hope you're welcome excellent well if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the web you can find us at William-branam.org and christiangospelchurch.org for an overview of the historical research of William Branham in the healing revivals read preacher behind the white hoods a critical examination of William Branham and his message available on amazon, kindle and audible join us again next week we've got a great episode coming