Weird Doctrines: Charlie Chaplin is the Devil's Puppet

Music Hello, welcome to another episode of William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, and friend, James Goad. And together we're discussing the very weird things that preachers say, why they say them, and how they relate back to the later-rain healing revivals of the late 1940s through the 1960s.

James, today we have one of the most interesting topics that in all of my research and what is it now, over a decade of time I spent researching William Brannum and the healing revivals, this is the most interesting topic, and it is the most difficult topic to explain because there are so many moving parts.

Charles and I, we hint at this topic just a bit in various episodes as we go through the timeline, because this is woven all through the message, but people don't catch it because they really don't know this history.

And honestly, without knowing this history, you really can't understand William Brannum and the white supremacy, and the agendas, and the underlying themes that are woven through Brannum's end of days, Doomsday Theology. It was a very common theology among all of the white supremacists, and understanding this is very critical.

I really don't think that we're going to do it justice in one single episode, but it is linked to a very weird thing that ministers say. We're talking about communism, and you know, to an outsider who visits a one of these churches that was a result of not just the message, but today we're delving a bit deeper into the white supremacy of the South, to a normal person who is familiar with history, or simply who has went to middle school or high school, and they go into one of these sermons, and you hear the ministers say that Russia is communist, they're like, wait a minute, man, no, it's not.

It has not been communist since Mikhail Gorbachev, but you're going to hear these ministers say this, and I am really fascinated with the history, and I'm really interested to get into the why that they say this, and you and I just discussed before we start.

started recording, this could be a whole series. And maybe we will. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the things that has been so fascinating for me and looking into this topic. Like you said, it just goes in all sorts of different places. It's woven in so deeply. And it just it spiders its way throughout the the movement. And it's influences from there's politics involved in this. There's religion. There's organizations that have nefarious purposes. It's there's all sorts of avenues to attack this from. And like you said, it's going to be just about impossible to do this topic justice from just one overview of an

episode. But we're hoping that we can kind of just get in and kind of hit some of the high points and just give you a taste of what's going on here. Right. And we mentioned in one of the previous episodes, I can't remember which we talked about the hatchet granny, which is another funny, you know, we can do a whole episode. Maybe we will do a whole episode on that as well. But the history behind that actually ties into this. So it gets really weird when you lay it all out.

Yeah. So I guess one of the best places to start here is with this clip. And this is something, this kind of stuff you hear a lot in message churches. And it's things that Brandham said himself that message ministers repeat and they say it. And because the prophet said it, it's repeated as the gospel. And there's no actual investigation to see whether this is true or not. It's just this is just the way it is. This is message canon. This is what we say. And this is what we promote because the prophet said it. But this minister has an interesting take on,

and it's really Brandham's take, like I said, that he's repeating. But there's an interesting take here on communism, the relation between communism, education, civilization, and science. So let's take a look and see what we think about it. Listen attentively. Listen carefully.

It's true civilization. Today, you know that civilization, science, instruction, education, and all the things that we so cherish today so less than a member of the satan. These are the very instruments of the devil.

All these things that we cherish, civilization, science, education. These things that we cherish today, so less than a member of the satan, these are the very things the devil uses.

Des formes, c'est dans les mauvais sens. Des formes, c'est de faire quelque chose d'autre, quelque chose d'autre. Frère-Baname Lee ? Frère-Baname le dit. Quelle est l'éducation du communisme ? Qu'est-ce que l'éducation ? Les communismes, c'est la civilisation.

Communismes, c'est la civilisation. L'éducation, l'éducation, l'assiance, science. C'est l'assiance. C'est science. Le scientifique, scientifique. Le scientifique, scientifique. Le scientifique, scientifique. Avec ça, il est tout de suite comme l'esprit. Il est taxé comme l'esprit pour un poisonélicien.

Et pour poisoné, pour poisonélicien. Avec la civilisation. Pour civilisation. Avec l'assiance. Pour l'éducation. L'éducation. Et là-dessus, il est en train de deformer. Le sentiment d'euros... Toute figure de lahorie variette. Un peu de DéА busé.

Il m'a demandé à l'aud Ou Taiwan, je sais pas où tu as eu une question deста. On m'a dit d'aller au eliminated là ? Un petit peu. Quel autre est... C'est un peu overweight. used le temps à l' några d'autres support education.

So what they got was barely enough to survive the tests that they have in the schools. But like I said earlier, this is a direct result of hatchet granny. It's kind of funny. We talked about hatchet granny, Carrie Nation, who from Kansas, was a smasher of saloons.

And she would carry his hatchet and she would go in and just several thousand dollars of whiskey she would just bust up, you know, right there on the scene. And she got infamous for it.

Well, one of the first saloon, the first saloon that she ever busted was a guy that was named JW Winrod. And the Winrod saga, it also is deserving of another full episode because it is so freaky weird.

It ties from, you know, early 1800s. It goes all the way up through the laddering revivals through Winrod's JW Winrod son. Then his son, so it would be the grandson of JW Winrod. He goes to, I want to say it's like 20 minutes from Mountain Home Arkansas.

And in the year 2000, he made national newspapers for his white supremacy and his ties to all of this. And there's this heavy, heavy, heavy concentration of white supremacy around that area. And if you're in the message, you just recognize that name because that's one of the biggest content.

Strations of message believers there too, so it's really weird, but Hatchet Granny was carrying nation was a She was in the temperance movement. She was very strongly anti alcohol and as it became into Americans prohibition history She was one of the heavy hitters literally heavy hitters and And um, anyway, she Allegedly inspired this JW Winrod if you look at the whole history It kind of looks like this was set up, but that aside JW Winrod's son who was Gerald Burton Winrod Gerald Burton Winrod was nicknamed the J. Hawk Nazi in the Kansas Hitler for his deep ties to the

Nazi party and Fascism in the United States and he's one of the key figures that was named in the great sedition trial of 1944 He was a Heavy heavy hitter spreading Nazism in the United States. There was a book called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion And he was one of the key figures in the United States spreading this. It was a very very Nazi book. I mean spreading the Nazi agenda in the early 1920s. I believe it was there was a former secretary of state and three-time presidential nominee William Jennings Brian And Brian took this firm stance against the theory of evolution in the United States

And he began to just fully blast the American school system and this was Approximately 1925 I believe it was and He called it a duel to the death against the education system and started giving speeches and these speeches Eventually nicknamed him with the title of profit and the defender of the Christian faith Well, what happened was after his death which happened just shortly after these speeches He had labeled the whole south the defender of the Christian faith and The south was rising up against the education system He died and then there were Several figures but one prominent figure which was Gerald Burton Winrod who carried the torch and

Gerald Burton Winrod took that phrase the defenders of the Christian faith and created a movement called the defenders of the Christian faith And they went around holding all of these conventions and they he joined with Paul Raider who was the The man who wrote William Brannum's only believed theme song Ralph Raider was involved in this Ralph Raider was from Jeffersonville, Indiana You got ff Bosworth who was connected to it. You've got Congressman William D up who was connected to it. Gerald Burton, when Rod was in the World Fundamentalists Association with Roy Davis, William Brownham's mentor. She got all of these key figures who were deeply

connected to this thing. And they were literally fighting the education system. And this, as we're going to go in this episode, this literally becomes this massive fight against communism. Yeah, it's funny to think, you know, when we brought a patch at Granny in the one episode, I kind of thought, well, that was an interesting character that we brought up. But then to see the ties and see the influences that, you know, the different people that she was working with and stuff like that and how it all trickles on down to Branham, eventually trickles back down.

But yeah, it's amazing. The anti-education movement in the message is so strong. And I've said before that you do have some ministers of some places who do have more of an educated background. And they don't, they're not so anti-education, but there's always a tinge of, even if they're a little favorable, there's always a tinge of, at the end of the day, Satan is the god of education.

And therefore, get as much of it as you need to get done what you got to do. But, you know, don't live an education longer than you have to. It's pretty much the warning that they give you across the pulpit, but that there's a lot of message churches that are heavily, heavily anti-education.

And when you look and you see a minister talking about how communism, the god of communism is civilization, science, and education. All of those things have given us really cool stuff.

I mean, I'm really glad that we have civilization and we're not just barbarians murdering each other or, you know, sacrificing children, you know, that's good. I like that. I like that about America and the world at large. You know, science, we get really cool stuff. We've got cars.

We've got planes. We've got televisions. We've got computers. Those are really cool things. I'm really glad we have those things, you know, and then education. You know, love education. I'm glad that we can be more educated these days, you know, to the extent of what we know.

There's always more to learn, but you know, it's crazy to think all the things that, all the great things that civilization, science, and education have brought us, and to say that these are the gods of communism. I mean, what does this minister really trying to say is he, you know, saying that we should go back to the Stone Age and get rid of our civilization, get rid of our education, get rid of our science, you know, and live in the woods.

Is that what we're really saying here and go back to a barbarianistic lifestyle? I mean, it's just like, what is, you take these things to a logical conclusion and where are we going? Is really the big question in all of this.

Yeah, it's just so weird. And you know, what it really boils down to is it's loaded language because communism really, it's not a religious movement. By no means, it is a political movement. It was derived from Karl Marx's class system.

You know, you could say that Marxism has this God. I mean, even that's really loose because Marx was an atheist. So there isn't a really correlation between communism or Marxism and religion. It's literally just a class system.

Now, it has become and evolved into anti-religion, which we'll get into it in a bit because there was a, there's political factors driving this from atheist men who carried the torch of communism. But from its inception, it was literally just a class system.

It was, we have a democracy in our country. Well, they had a class system in their country and if you were born into this class, you were going to be a welder. You know, it's, it's an awful thing.

Don't get me wrong. But it isn't what they have made it out to be without the loaded language. And much of that loaded language came directly from Nazi Germany. I mean, most of what we know about when Rod's deep dark secrets came from the aftermath of this edition trial.

When Rod and I think there were like 30 different men and movements that had collaborated together to undermine the morale of the United States troops during the World Wars. And 1944, I want to say it's January.

They were, they were indicted and this whole thing was exposed as a Nazi plot. And what's really interesting is in 19, what was it? I think it was 1934 trying to look up my notes here.

But I think it was 1934 that when Rod was a, you know, just a no name minister who's preaching against evolution who he's really struggling financially. He doesn't have a whole lot of money.

And then he takes this visit to this trip and visits Germany, where he meets with Hitler's personal representative, Hans Wright and Kranz. After this, he comes back to the United States and suddenly he's got more money than he knows what to do with. And the newspapers labeled it like this in 1934 when Rod was a poor, struggling, revivalist minister who declared Hitler to be spreading paganism.

The paper goes on to say in the fall of that same year, however, when Rod suddenly changed somehow and somewhere He obtained enough money to finance a trip to Germany and remain there for several months When he returned in 1935 he cleaned up all of his outstanding depths and lump sums by check And he boasted to his satisfaction of his creditors that while in Germany He had met important Nazi officials and began to publish pro-Nazi statements in his magazine the Defender and one of the statements they gave was Naziism and fascism are patriotic and nationalistic

Communism is not and remember the Nazis were strongly against communism and Russia He say hence the three forms of government Naziism and fascism are as far in advance of Bolshevism, I can't say that word in the 20th century from the dark ages and These these statements are just woven all through his speeches after this and he is one of the key figures I mean, he's the leader of the defenders of the Christian faith This was strongly linked to fundamentalism in the United States If you are one of the churches that your church is saying evolution is of the devil and every school system that is

That is teaching evolution. They're inspired by say this came from Winrod You know, I'm not saying evolutions right or wrong, but that's where this came from and So it evolved over time and to this thing where because Winrod is against communism and because he's also against the current education system and He's a religious pseudo Christian man Well, they people took these leaps to connect all of this together to eventually say that communism was a god of its own and its anti-education We'll get into this a bit further But throughout the course of the healing revival as Russia becomes an imminent threat to the United States and

It was at that time communist You had all of these men who had these deep connections to the defenders of the Christian faith movement like William Brannum Like his mentor Roy Davis the imperial wizard of the clan that they started linking this then to Russia because Russia again was communist at that time and These ministers that are offshoots from this movement Which you know will get into those clips a bit more to they will still tell you that Russia is Anti-religion anti, you know, they still say it's communist. It's not a communist country and You know, it's it's so weird man because not only are they incorrect on it being a

You know communism is spreading through Russia and it's dominating Russia is largely Christian country it Christianity in Russia is the most widely professed religion in the country. Yeah, one of the most fascinating things when you really start looking into this early history and some of these movements that we were influenced by is how much politics is mixed in with what's going on in religion. And you see so many times that political figures are tapping the ministry and saying, hey, we've got this this thing that we want you to promote, we want you to say, we want you to help influence, help, you know,

gird the minds of the people of the country and help them in our fight against this movement here. And, you know, we hear the phrase a lot, you know, separation of church and state.

There's good reasons for that. When you get a radical religion in charge of the state, a lot of bad things can happen. And, you know, there's reasons for stuff like that. And I've seen a lot of ministers say that, you know, the people in politics, the separation of church and state is just so they can be godless. You know, they take god out. And it's like, okay, we all agree. We all have different backgrounds. You know, you've got, you know, Muslim people, you've got Catholic people, you've got, you know, Pentecostal people. And they're all in politics.

And it's like, okay, we agree to check. We agree to check our religion at the door, but we don't agree to check our morals at the door, you know, and it's like, there's a difference there, you know, and according to the people who are in these churches, who are in these movements, they see it as the minister, the head figure that's that's saying it to them. And so they think it's coming from inside their movement when really it's an external force applying pressure to try to get a message to flow through for their own purposes.

I read in an academic article here recently, it is very very extraordinary the way that it describes these regimes. It says they must create maximum insecurity in the people that they control. And so how do you create maximum insecurity through disinformation?

This is the whole goal to controlling people and communism is create this insecurity. And so what's the word that's often associated with communistic regimes propaganda? But did you know that word actually started with the Catholic Church?

It's about propagating faith, propagating the doctrine. So this propaganda is now the dissemination of information that's intended to promote a particular view. Where this went from here is, you know, you've got Gerald Burton-Winrod, who's got this entire campaign against the education system. And he starts weaving in this anti-communist rhetoric.

But even the word communism with him was a loaded language. When you hear the word communism in these ministries, you're really thinking, okay, they're talking about the political system of Russia or China. But From the religious movement that was created, that's not really what it was.

It was that, but there was this strong theme of anti-Semitism in the early religion. Winrog was also one of the chief leaders in this. It began as not quite racist, but pseudo-racist, the British-Israelism theology.

If you go back to our historical timeline podcast, you can kind of get that understanding of what that was, but it was essentially the notion that the 12 tribes of Israel, whenever they were lost, the Jews that we see now returning to the homeland, those weren't the true Jews. The true lost 12 tribes of Israel landed in the British Isles. That was the weird pseudo-archeological, pseudo-Christian notion. Well, Winrog was one of the spearheads of this.

You also had Gordon Lindsay, who was William Branham's first campaign manager, and largely responsible for the post-war war two healing revival. He was a key figure in this. He was speaking in this thing. What had evolved into overtime, and again, we're actually going to get into this more in the historical timeline podcast, so you can check it out there.

What it began with as a result of Winrog's work was that the Jews were essentially the bad guys, and they created this also, this is conspiracy theory, and it's false conspiracy theory. They claimed that the Jews, the false Jews, were the ones who created communism, and the false Jews and communism were trying to infiltrate the United States.

They persuaded most of the southern, well, and all of the white supremacists. I mean, if you're a white supremacist, you believed this. They persuaded a large portion of American religion that these false Jews had created communism for the specific purpose of invading the United States government, and then you get into all this, like McCarthyism, where they're singling out different men, and if your political position doesn't match mine, well, that's a communist. That's a communist who's coming into infiltrate our country, and it turned into a weird Trump saying, witch hunt. It was an actual witch hunt back then. It's so weird. That morphed into the civil

rights movement, and all of the people of that mindset began to say that the civil rights movement was a planned strategy by these communists from the Jews to infiltrate the United States and cause race-mixing in the United States. That was the premise of this. So there's this weird history, but in the end, what it was was a very strategic propagandism.

and a scheme to try to persuade the American public with false information in order to fight communism and fight the Jews and fight the blacks. And I'm not gonna say that all of it was bad because communism is a bad thing, don't get me wrong.

But that's not the way it was presented. When they said communism, they linked with this, they linked the Jews, they linked the blacks, the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King was a communist and you can search William Brannum sermons and find this.

They bundled all of this in the package of this loaded language of communism. And I have to say, this was one of the most highly effective propaganda schemes that I've read about in American history.

Yeah, and it's interesting you bring up the people like Martin Luther King. Because even I've got a quote here from Brannum in 1963 in the sermon, he cares, do you care? And he said, and he's speaking of Martin Luther King here and he says, I think that Martin Luther King is communistic inspired, which is going to lead about a million people to absolutely a death trap.

See, I don't say the Lord told me that, I believe, see, and I believe it shouldn't be done. I think that people ought to be Christians and recognize one another as brothers, but I think it's just because United States government now tells me that it, you know, and he gets into this thing here where he's talking about, I can't even sign a check because it's given me personally, see, and it's almost one of these things where, yeah, there's always money at the end of this.

It's always, you know, it's talking about Martin Luther King, communist inspired, and then the government won't even let me sign a check to myself, but yeah, and so, so yeah, so it's what's interesting here is that, you know, I see some people use terms like this, you know, quotes like this, and say, we'll see Brannum, he just disagreed with Martin Luther King and it was because of the communism thing.

He believed he was a communist and he said, you know, I, I, he's not saying it's because he's black. You know, I said, I think that we should all recognize one another as brothers, but one of the things you see in some of these movements is, is there, there's, there's a quiet part that they're not saying.

It's like, I see you as brothers, but I see you as brothers over there. You can be over there in your country, just not in my country, don't mix with us, but I, I want to see you as brothers, but, you know, not, not mingling, not mingling, see?

It's so interesting to see how there's always this double speak, you know, going on. But one of the things that's interesting too, you know, even moving off of that and the whole communism thing, you had this whole attack on Hollywood back in those early days and you had, you know, people like Jager Hoover who had it out for anything that was, that was, that he considered anti-Americanism and communism was top on his list.

And like you said, there is this witch hunt about everybody in the world at some point. point was accused of being a communist back in those days, and one of the easy targets were people in the arts, people in movies, because one of the things that you see is sometimes people can be sympathetic to other ideologies, and sometimes it's not because they're sympathetic to the ideology itself, it's because each ideology has a kernel of something that affects people. You talk about it in a class-based system where it's like, okay, we want to tear down the class-based system because it's keeping the normal guy down, and you're

like, okay, I can see things about that, and then you see a larger movement created around that, and you're like, okay, I see larger problems here with this movement, but maybe not the kernel of the thing here at the bottom where it's like, we want to talk about protecting the little guy and not keeping the big oligarchs or something coming in and stomping them down, and so you'll see different artists and stuff like that, and even somebody like Charlie Chaplin said that, let's take the good out of communism and leave the bad, and you're like, okay, because there's actually something there that there's people

being hurt by, because if it didn't affect people, and if there wasn't something in there that resonated with people, a certain message, it wouldn't even get the movement it does, but because these things are actually trying to address real-world problems, you see that people actually get caught up in these things, but because of this, and Charlie Chaplin's sort of open-mindedness about some of these things, you see that he was viciously attacked by people like J. Edgar Hoover and conspired to get some constantly, try to get him booted from the country and stuff like that because he believed he was a communist, but one of

the things that I thought was interesting is how you see ministers today still promoting these things about people like Charlie Chaplin, and we've got a minister here saying some interesting things about Charlie Chaplin, and I guess we'll just let him speak for himself and we'll dig in a little further.

It started way back in the 1890s, back in Paris, and in Paris, they sent all their fashions over here. You know what, until the turn of the century, there was no such thing as a moving picture.

Some of you young people may not realize there was no television, there was no movie, there was none of that things over there. But Satan, and at first, Satan came up, it was Charlie Chaplin, and it was a talk, just people moving around, no sound, and people were dazzled by that.

So Charlie Chaplin is the devil, man. So we've talked about this some in the past about how, you know, the white supremacy agenda that was again... It's Hollywood and the movies and the reasons why, you know, the interracial marriages.

And you had, you know, William Brownham's coming out against, I love Lucy because it's one of the first open interracial marriages that was displayed on television, which Charlie Chaplin, they targeted him, they targeted several different ones.

They claimed to be in the Jewish conspiracy and usually it was somebody who was either A. Was a Jew, B. Who was, had ties back into Russia or Communism or C. The Catholic Church.

There's always one of those three. Because again, that's the framework of white supremacy. And when you hear white supremacy today, like I even just heard you mentioning this a few, few minutes back, but you think this is hate against people with black skin and that's it.

It's just hate. But it really wasn't that there. It was this notion that the communists had invaded the United States, the political system. And specifically the education system, because again, we're talking about the civil rights movement.

We're talking about the desegregation of the public school system. And they were more against the race mixing and they said essentially that the Jews had invaded United States politics to produce the civil rights movement.

And the civil rights movement was causing a race-mixing propaganda in the United States. It wasn't really that they hated the black people. In fact, some of them felt sorry for the black people because they were born with quote-unquote the curse.

That ties into the Christian identity doctrines of Wesley Swift, which we talked about in the historical podcast, William Brandham called it his quote-unquote serpent seed theology. And understanding that, it would take another few different episodes because it's so convoluted.

When you hear William Brandham say it, he doesn't use the word Jew or black. The theology was such that, whenever according to Swift, when Eve from the Garden of Eden made it with the serpent to produce cane, that bloodline could be traced throughout time and he traces it through ham who they believe to be the father of the people with black skin in Africa.

So Swift is saying literally that this curse went into Africa through ham. And that's why we have the black people. That was the theology. It's completely false theology. William Brandham, when he introduced it as his sermon, the serpent seed.

He called it the serpent seed because it was the seed of the serpent, just like Swift. And he traces it in that sermon through the same lineage. But because he doesn't specifically use the word black or Jew, people think it's not racist.

And it was, I've mentioned this with Charles D. the day. This is one of the most strategic things that could have happened. I don't know if it was a strategy and a planned strategy. I'm still kind of on the fence, but if it was, this was one of the most strategic things that ever could have happened because what happened was he swayed people to the mindset that made them a fertile ground to be consumed by white supremacy. They believed the premise of white supremacy through William Brannum, well now these white supremacists can come in and recruit them into the clan or whatever is the dominant white supremacy organization in the

area. Like you said, they're targeting all of these specific people who have links to either Judaism, Communism, or Catholicism. Yeah, it's crazy. I didn't know much about Charlie Chaplin going up. I was never really influenced by those movies. I never saw any of that work.

I feel like I remember at one point in my life someone telling me that Charlie Chaplin was a communist. I don't know where I picked that up at and I don't know why I thought that, but I feel like I have that pre-formed idea in my mind somewhere and I don't know really where that came from.

But one of the things that I did in preparation for this episode here on Communism is I watched his film, one of his most famous films, The Great Dictator, where he parodies Hitler. One of the things that we've pointed out is there is a difference between Communism and Nazism, but one of the things in the film is he mocks Hitler openly. I mean, the character standing for Gerbils is his name is garbage. And he always calls him. He says, you know, come here, garbage. It's like when you know who Gerbils was and the role he played in the propaganda coming out of Nazi Germany and to

actually help turn the minds of the people against Jews. Yeah, that's a fitting name for somebody like Gerbils garbage. But yeah, and so you look at the film and one of the most famous moments in the film is at the very end where his character, you know, the fool that he plays a lot in his previous roles where there was no speaking in those films, you know, he ends up mistaken for Hitler and he's up on the stage and he ends up giving this speech. And it's a complete refutation of, you know, totalitarian rules, dictatorships, telling the people not to be consumed by these

brutes who are trying to, you know, rule their minds and turn them against other people. And, you know, it's a cry for humanity and for people to come together and we don't hate naturally. Hate is usually brought on by other people trying to get us to hate each other and all these things.

And it's a very unifying sort of speech. And I was listening to this thing and I'm like, I don't hear communism in this and I don't hear anything coming out of this film that leads me to think this guy was inspired by Satan to make these sorts of works.

And so when you hear when you hear a minister like this talking about how Satan was using people like Charlie Chaplin, it's like, where is he even getting this notion from? I don't see this in this film.

Right. And coincidentally, Charlie Chaplin is one of the key figures that was targeted by the clan. The, in fact, there's a Chaplin film. It was which one, the pilgrim was banned by the clan.

You know, there was just, there was this strong alignment between, are you a white supremacist or are you a communist that we're going to target? That's the way this worked. And it's so interesting that today in a movement that is so disconnected from this, I have watched Charlie Chaplin films and I actually like them.

They're really good. They're silent and most of them are silent, but some of them have words. But I've seen the silent ones and I won't give his name, but I actually set in the living room of a very prominent message.

I guess I could call him a message leader. He had a very ranking position. I'll just say it like that. And we watched a Charlie Chaplin film. And here I am a kid. I'm not supposed to watch television or movies and he's got this film projector in his living room.

Man, Charlie Chaplin. We saw Charlie Chaplin. We saw Amos and Andy, which is, you know, it's weird. He's got these black skin, these white people with black paint on, black face. And it's either Abbott and Castello or Laurel and Hardy, one of the, one of the two.

I watched all these films and I liked them. I did not know that you weren't supposed to. And apparently he didn't either because it was one of the targets of this thing, right? But it's so interesting to hear.

I mean, this is 2023 man. These people have no idea what it is that they're saying. They have no idea where it came from. And you know, they're manipulated and brainwashed to be parrots and they're parroting something that is so purely evil.

And yet they have no idea what it is. And these people pay 10% of their earnings to these guys who have only one job, man, they have one single job and that's to try to understand what it is.

They're preaching so that they can help the sheep and to heaven. And they're not even doing that. Like they have no clue that what they're preaching is so heavily racist, that they're no better than the Ku Klux Klan.

Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, It is, it's amazing. And when you, it's so important. And it's something that, as I've done more research, deprogramming coming out of this thing, figuring out where these things come from.

And the more you see the different influences from like back in like the 1940s and 30s of things that were established and promoted. And then you're hearing them in Pews in, in, in 2020, you know, in 2023, all these, you know, the more in current times.

And, you're, and yeah, it's so important to know where these things came from because once you see the origins of some of these things, it's easier to go, okay, this isn't God, this is just your racist ideology.

And, you know, one of the things that, you know, looking back and, and I've been so curious about, you know, Brannems, you know, attacks on Martin Luther King because, you know, today we see Martin Luther King as such a, you know, as such a good person because he, you know, he, you know, the whole message was, you know, I want to be judged not on the color of my skin but the content of my character, you know, and, and you just think about that in, in life, you know, that, that, that's such a thing that everyone should want to be judged by in all rates,

not even just color, just, you know, judge me by, by the things I do, not your presuppositions about, don't judge the book by its cover, you know. And, but one of the things that is so interesting to me is as I started digging into some of this stuff and, and you look, and even, even the FBI was, was so against Martin Luther King and, you know, the FBI at the time was run by Jay Grouver and at one point, they actually sent a suicide letter to King to try to get him to commit suicide and, and there's all these dark things that happened

and the reason why I bring this up in, in, in the context of, of Brannems, it is because Brannems used the name of Jay Edgar Hoover a lot. One of the things that he did early on in his ministry was in the promotion of his supposed halo photo where he would, he would call George Lacey as the man who, who, who, who said this was authentic and he called him one of Hoover's boys at the FBI.

So Hoover was mentioned a lot around in, in, in those, in those days and one of the things that, I come across when I was, I was, I was trying to figure out how many times that Brannems actually mentioned Hoover and one of the things that Hoover did a lot was he would put out these articles in Christian today and there would always be these blasts on communism as trying to filter its way into the pulpits of America and, you know, the ministers have to be vigilant against the communist, you know, thing trying to come in

and they're getting into the education and they're trying to have their way with the minds of the people by getting into the clergy and all this kind of stuff. And one of the things that I thought was interesting when it comes to Brannems is that, in the, in this quote here from the flashing red light, the sign of his coming in 1963. And he was talking about how he was wanting to read these great remarks. He said these great remarks.

I had something from Edgar Hoover on that. I don't know. I thought I had it laying here, but I haven't of what he said about it. You know, and now we find these things, oh my, and he just goes on into his sermon. And you see that Edgar Hoover was somebody that Brannum was either influenced by or trying to use his influence to sort of help promote certain ideas. And so he's literally in this moment. He's wanting to read something. And I assume it's probably from his, one of his Christian today articles. And literally, he's wanted to read it

across the pulpit. And the only reason it doesn't get read in his sermon is because when he goes to bring his notes out, he misplaces it and he can't find it. It's just a, it's, it's a fascinating trail of research that I kind of stumbled upon when I, when I started looking down this. And it's, that is a spider, spider web of, of, of, of rabbit trails that, that I, I don't know, man. Like I said, like we said earlier, it could probably be a whole series in itself, just all these weird things that communism just spiders out into all these different things.

Yeah, there's just so much, man. And I'm not big into conspiracy theories. I prefer the facts in the history. But if I were, and I just lay everything out on the table to piece it together, it's so freaky weird, man. You got Brannum who was ordained by who would later become the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. He had, before William Brannum's ordination, he was the second and command of the Ku Klux Klan. So he's deeply embedded and tied to white supremacy.

You've got that guy, Davis, his connections to Winrod, who's a, a literal actual Nazi, right? So that's a piece on the puzzle, a piece on the table that, you know, if Naziism, white supremacy, J. Edgar Hoover, who was, and if you go back and look at the history, it looks very much like he was a homosexual man. And you've got all of these people who are very, very closely, not just closely tied to William Brannum, but who actually held the keys to Brannum's kingdom. The one, William Brannum scribes were homosexual, Jean, God, Leo, Mercer, different God family. People have

asked for this. Thank you. Different God family. So you know, you've got J. Edgar Hoover's homosexual, William Brannum's home, William Brannum's men, or homosexual. Then this Halo photograph, it was taken from Douglas Studios. Douglas was named after Ashley, Leslie Douglas, Ashley, they called him Douglas. At the time, the Halo photograph was taken.

And if you go back and study the history, which I've, I've got in a book. Now, you can find it in our Leslie Douglas Ashley podcast, but at the time that Halo photograph was taken, he was a homosexual prostitute.

And Douglas Studios was organized around him, right? Douglas Studios later during the cloud event, William Brannum is supposed to be in Arizona under this cloud thing that he said was seven angels. I was standing right there and looked up when there's a cloud, well, the same exact day that that cloud occurred in Arizona was the day that Leslie Douglas Ashley was scheduled to die.

And William Brannum was there in Houston, and they were organizing a protest for his death in a state of execution. And he got snuckered into going because of Leslie Douglas Ashley's connection to the Halo photograph.

We have that documented evidence. So you got all these pieces of the puzzle, right? How much was the clan involved in it? I don't know. How much was Jay Edgar Hoover behind it? Maybe he was, man, I don't know, but there's just so much weirdness here that in the end, you just kind of take a step back, forget about all of this and yes, you're self the question, what is this thing?

This is not Christianity. What is this thing that I just left and I escaped? Yeah, it's crazy because one of the things like you said, some of these people may not be directly connected.

Because one of the things, when you get into something that's so large like this and in the Brannum movement, all the various people that were at play and all that, you know, you've got so many different famous people that were in the healing revival and you've got these political interests.

But sometimes you don't have to have people who are in the same camp. They can have converging interests. You know, the Nazi, the Nazi people can be wanting to go after the communists. Jager Hoover can be wanting to go after the communists and you don't have to be an alignment.

Your views at the moment, it's like friends of the moment and I'm not saying that they were directly tied together but I'm just drawing an illustration of how some of these things can appear to be.

Well, I don't know if Edgar Hoover was this or that. Well, it doesn't have to be. It's like if Brannum, if he was saying the things that Brannum's ideology already espoused and agreed with, then why not use what he's saying to go after the communists because that's what your other influences are saying to go after as the communists.

So it's just one of those things where you can have converging interests and then it solves a lot of things. You don't have to have direct connections with people meeting in a dark room and saying, okay, this is what we're gonna do.

We're gonna have this larger conspiracy, you know? Converging interests solves a lot of those problems. But yeah, it's amazing. And one of the things you see a lot in these movements and around the whole communism thing is the thing around American exceptionalism.

And how there's America is the shining light on the hill. love America, I'm not saying anything, I'm not, don't, don't take me wrong here, I'm not saying anything about negative about America. But the, a lot of the anti-communist rhetoric was about how, you know, to talk about how horrible these things are and to make America almost put it up into this God-like status of this is what God wants for our future.

And in looking into that sort of idea, I stumbled across this other minister saying something about, you know, God's, God had chosen America in these last days to promote this message. And that's something you hear a lot in the message is, you know, this idea that America is somehow special. God, God literally presided over the founding fathers in such a way to where America could be formed with its, with its constitution and all these things, so that someone like Brannum could come in this last day and fulfill his role in Scripture according to message people. And without, if it was communist, we, you know, it couldn't

happen. So yeah, let's, let's take a look at this, this last clip here and, and see what we think about it. God, of course, chose different parts of the world about which he would progress his truth. And in the end time Satan moved his headquarters to the west, the western side of our own nation, which was, of course, from Hollywood. Our founding fathers were led by the spirit of God. You believe that? I believe that God allowed them even with government and enterprise. And I know you may not like it, but it may take something

I prefer way, way more than I would socialism. And God knew there would have to be people around the message that he could bless financially, but they would be able to help propagate the message. So if all of us would have been people that just live from hand to mouth, as we say, and we go from paycheck to paycheck, then I wonder how far the message and the churches and books and so on and so on, how far would it have reached around the world? Because the majority of us could have never done that. So God actually allowed people that was pretty witty when it

would come to business. And they would be able to go out there and make all kinds of money, but they wouldn't keep all of it for themselves. But they would have a burden to be able to print and to be able to make MP3s and CDs and so on and so on and so on. Why? Because God wanted to get the message out to reach the bride around the world. Had it been in a nation where we could have not done that under socialism or under some other type of control other than democracy, then it could have been so hindered. So the angels of the Lord, when they go about manipulating over

the top of the political schemes of Satan and then every age that he's always been there, God ordained that our nation be birthed and found. and on the principles of democracy. You know that last phrase, it's really the crux of it, right?

James, the political strategies of Satan. This whole thing, we've mentioned it before, and we've actually proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that this was a political cult that was disguised as a religious cult.

And every single key figure that we identify where William Brannum has taken and plagiarized some little piece of their theology or their agenda. And he says, this is a divine revelation from God. And then you find out, no, that came from Winrod or no, that serpent seed.

The first time he heard it was in Roy Davis's white supremacy church in Jeffersonville. Every single piece of this comes from a political ideology. This was a political movement. No question about it. And the sad thing is that most people today, they don't have a deep thorough understanding of history.

And so the things that were very real to these people back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, that everybody knew and took for granted, we don't know today. So especially the children of these, you know, some of the elders, maybe they were part of the 60s movement they saw the white supremacy rising up against civil rights.

Maybe they saw this, right? But their children, their grandchildren, and now they're great grandchildren. They're so disconnected, they don't really know that the things that William Brannum is saying in his sermons are for a specific point in time.

And the prophecies that he's giving timelines for, he's giving them timelines based off of the current political events. So years, decades later, you know, the great grandchildren, they have no frame of reference. So they hear this thing, oh, communism.

They must be talking about Russia and fading Ukraine. By no means is it even the same religion, but what these ministers have done is they found a way to stretch it out. The thing failed miserably.

I mean, the founder of the religion is dead. And his prophecies that had a specific timeline, many of which required him to be in that timeline. Well, he's dead, he can't even do it.

So what they're doing is they're stretching it out and saying, no, it's this new event. And ignore this detail that doesn't fit, that did fit back in the 60s. And so, you know, it transformed it into something that doesn't even resemble what it was.

But, you know, there's a part of what this man said that I do agree with. I do like America, I'm glad it's not a communist country or a socialist country. What I strongly disagree with is the mindset that God is so small, that he could not change

an entire globe of... people in every different race, every different country, in his own way, that it had to come from this person who we have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, lied consistently.

Like, there's only one consistent thing about William Brannum is that he lied continually. So God can choose anybody. He wants. I'll give them that. I really choose a liar and why on earth would we try to think that God is so small that it can only come from this person who is a serial liar and dominate the globe of Christianity, but then dominated it in a way that doesn't even resemble what it was whenever he brought it.

It's like, you're taking William Brannum even out of that picture and you're saying that just the evolution of cult Christianity has bred what exists today and you're saying that that evolution was God. Well, it is the most splintered, most divided religion that I'm aware of.

Even in the same city, two churches won't fellowship with one another. You take any other denomination. The Baptist will get together, Methodist, even the Catholics, this is strongly against. So all fellowship with one another, but not in this cult.

This is the strongest divided cult that exists today and we're to believe that that is a movement from God. Yeah, it's so amazing because like you said, the message makes God so small and it's baffling.

When you take a step back and you really look at what the message has done to the idea of God and the place, the shackles that puts on God, because the message itself and the way Brannum was doing, he built himself up, he put himself on this pedestal and for Brannum to be on this pedestal in so many situations, God has to be small.

God needs to be limited for Brannum to be in this position of power and it's amazing how ministers will say things that like you said, God sounds so powerless. And at the same time, the message sounds so powerful and it is.

It's such a contradiction sometimes when you see ministers as they're trying to make all these things fit and they're trying to force a square peg into a round hole and it's like it doesn't work, but they're literally doing this in front of you.

They're trying to force the square peg into the round hole and they're like, look, it fits. It doesn't fit. So I see it right there, but it's crazy. I, you know, yeah, it is.

It's sad to see how these things are treated and abused, but you know, it's sort of the nature of how these things go when you get into these sorts of movements. Yeah, James. I mean, the fact that we're talking about the subject of communism as a sermon in a Christian quote unquote Christian church and even more specifically, I don't think any of the clips mentioned this, but this was specifically communist Russia. These guys are talking about.

None of the clips mentioned the name Russia, but go back and search the transcripts at table.branum.org, every single instance when there's talking about communism and it's talking about Russia, which is no longer communist. So it's so strange that in today's world, these things even are even a thing that we can discuss. Why are they not talking about becoming a better person or the gospel? There has to be some sort of a way that they can reconcile this because many of these people have no idea what they're in and some of them, not all, but some

of them are actually good people at heart. They're just in a very bad thing. But we could go on for hours on communism and the rabbit holes that I went down to, man. I mean, we could do at least 50 episodes on it. But if you have weird doctrines that you would like for us to discuss on the show, you can contact us on the web. You can find us at www.William-branum.org. And for an overview of the historical research of William Brannum and the healing revivals, read preacher behind the White Hoods, a critical examination of William Brannum and his message, available on Amazon,

Kindle, and Audible.