Converging Apostasy: From Jane Lead to Christian Identity Part 2

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have Steve Montgomery, the author of the converging apostasy and a quick outline on hands-on eschatology, a matter of timing and agency, and together we're examining the themes of apostasy in the New Apostolic Reformation and their history. Steve I'm so excited to continue on with this we're you know as the listeners know we're discussing the connections between Jane Leade and the Christian identity and we're getting into some

characters that for the overall podcast as we're getting into the weaponized religion study as this goes on in this year we're getting into names and faces that people are going to start connecting the dots of just why and how all of this comes together why it's so important and your research has been invaluable for helping me map out and connect all those dots because that while I was focusing on the politics side and the criminal underworld of the religious movements you were studying all of the thematic issues that that existed and quite honestly it's so overwhelming it would be impossible to do

both so as we put our research together this is something that honestly I've looked far and wide I don't think there's anything out there that even comes close to covering this yeah I agree with that John and what are the things that that is you know we're talking about Jane Leade and her her role in all this previous podcast we did talk about something very specific in her writings and talked about the role of England where she was from and the role of England and bringing about all the blessings on earth and then of course Richard

brothers and the Christian identity church of John Rowe picked up on some of the things she said and she was an advocate of these same sorts of things about a couple of hundred years before John Rowe so one of the things that that came up recently that I wasn't aware of it just by looking at the titles of some of her works that that same reference to England as being the location where, of course, Anglo-Saxon folks began to have these blessings for the whole earth. And, of course, that fits in nicely with the British israelism. So, again, I think I think one of the major components of how this sort of stuff

spreads and how to metastasize, if you want to use that word, is to the doctrine of ongoing revelation. And, looking back at Jane Leeds writings, you find that constantly reference to sometimes even beyond what, say, the NAR would say, at least what they would be, if they're honest, they would say. And, that is, she said very specifically that let nothing hold you back from new revelations from God, not even the scriptures themselves. So, she makes very clear that anything goes. And, of course, for folks that are in the manifestants of God teachings, people are influenced by the light of rain. The anything goes as a big factor because their

prophets end up taking them quite often into pyramidology or ufology or Christian identity. And so, one of the major locations or major people and all of that is that her teachings easily come to somebody that I know you're quite familiar with, John. And, that is Wesley A. Swift.

You're right. Wesley Swift, as we start getting deeper into the podcast this year, he is going to be a name that is coming up quite often. And, I won't get into it deep in this podcast because we're going to explore it quite a bit more. We have mentioned it previously in the historical podcast, William Brannum reintroduced or rebranded however you want to call it. It was not divine revelation and brand new to him. But, he basically, William Brannum took Wesley Swift's Christian identity, the two-seed doctrine. And, he claimed it was a divine revelation and basically just renamed

what Wesley Swift had taught, brought all the theology that Swift was teaching, took the words black and the words jiu out of it, but then gave the same lineage so that all of his listeners would assume that he was referring to black and jiu. And then introduced it into Latter-Rain. And, as you know, Latter-Rain was very grounded in this Christian identity theme.

But, where it gets really interesting is we're going to be introducing some new characters and new faces into the podcast and the research. One of them is Gerald O. K. Smith. because Smith was deeply involved in American politics. He started the America First Party, which isn't the same as the America First Party you hear today. But interestingly, there's a lineage that traces back to the same thing. So it literally is the same type of party that evolved from it. But Gerald LK Smith was the head of the California Ku Klux Klan, and Wesley Swift was his

second in command. And they were in California rebuilding the clan at the same time that Roy Davis, who is, you know, William Brannum was his second in command. Roy Davis was out in California at the same time. They were, of all things, they were raising money and creating this big orphanage scheme to fund, basically to fund the clan. And then just a little time after this, the clan evolves and emerges out of California. So all of this is connected. Again, I won't go too deep into it right now, but where it gets interesting from your research is that while I'm looking at the

politics and I see all these connections coming together from a doctrinal standpoint, from a thematic standpoint, many of those themes begin to blend into both movements. So there is definitely cross-pollination happening. Yeah, John, that's really fascinating about the Roy Davis part and the historical research you've done connecting the dots between Swift, Davis, and obviously William Brannum. And if you connect anything to William Brannum, that by default connects it into the latter ring because the the central founding father and chief apostle of the latter ring was George Houghton. And we mentioned him before, but he's quite a character, especially if you look at him not

only with his playing footsie with the Christian identity and actually diving in. He also went into some very strange other doctrines that you can get from Wesley Swift. And he did that again through the idea of ongoing revelation. He just constantly receiving new ideas.

So for me, my introduction to Wesley Swift, oddly enough, was at a time when I just went, what? That is the weirdest stuff I've ever heard. So bizarre. And actually the way I ran into it was I was assisting somebody back in the days when this was sort of accepted and then became a big, big no-no, especially with folks like, say, Steve Hassan, you know, how he does things.

in a very legit above-board way doing exit counseling. Well, I was actually doing assisting people when it was called deprogramming. And so I was hired. And the main follow-there was in charge of the group that I did deprogramming with was an ex-children of God, guys. So there's another Italian right there. So he was ex-children of God. And what ended up happening was he said, well, well, here's some materials. Have you seen this before, Steve? And I was already quite quite acquainted with the ideas of, say, like, Bill Britton. And I've heard all that stuff. That's

straight up light rain, manifest sons of God stuff. He says, yeah, well, what do you think of this? Do you think this is manifest sons of God? And he gave me some materials from Westerly Swift.

And again, I was just shaking my head like, well, yeah, it's sort of that, but it's also just full of absolute lunacy. Again, how could anybody, as you mentioned before, John, how could anybody believe this stuff? It's so weird. But again, it goes to step by step, kind of like what that old semi-parable analogy people say, jumping from the fire into the frying pan. You know, that's what happens. And I did reference last time we talked, Violin Larson, who's done really good work in saying just basically what I said is that because many people and Christian identity came from

the ongoing revelations they were receiving in the manifest sons of God doctrines, there's really a bridge that allows them to make that jump. So I kind of just kind of Westerly Swift had just the absolute lunatic back. This is probably 30 years ago. I revisited him because of Violin Larson's article. And so I said, well, I have to find out for myself. I really don't like to take anybody's word and just run with it. I got to see this from myself. So what I did was I went to Ella Rose Mast. That's M-A-S-T. Her website is called Christ of Virginia and it's

Christianity for the thinking man. Well, guess what? You go to that website and you find speeches of Adolf Hitler. And of course Westerly Swift is in good or bad company. Well, I have everyone word that because all of all I don't know if it's every single one, but many, many of his transcribed sermons are there and then some that weren't transcribed. So what I did was I read 34 of them and had to take a slight hiatus that's pretty discussed.

and stuff. And so what I did was I kind of thought of him as a real conduit from the manifest sons of God's teachings and Christian identity. So here's what I found more specifically. He had what I think of as just an absolute smorgasbord of extra-biblical sources, meaning sources outside of traditional Christianity. A few would be this. The superiority of the air in race, okay? There we can see that one. Stonehenge, which of course all the New Age folks and esoteric folks really like when they get into their kind of bizarre ideas about what Stonehenge stands for

in the air in race. The Kabbalah. So the Kabbalah absolutely esoteric source and he references the Zohar, which is their main, one of the main documents. He also talks about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

So the Dead Sea Scrolls would be what neo-nostic folks and new truth type people ongoing truth type people would get into. You know, it's kind of funny because while I did study mostly the, you know, the historical aspects and the political aspects, there's a point in time in which I was also diving into some of these, I don't know what you even call them. It's not really theological studies, but like you said, the extra-biblical. I stumbled on to this by accident because I went out to California on business and they had one of the largest collections of Egyptian artifacts

in the city that I just happened to be in. I think it was San Jose. So I wanted to go. I went and looked and it was at a Rosa Crucian Museum and had no idea what that even was, you know, me being the humble little message guy from Colt Guy, you know. So I go in here and you know, you see the Egyptian stuff, but you also see the Rosa Crucian stuff and the themes. Well, the more I look, I'm scratching my head thinking, this is not a religious museum, but this really matches a lot

of what my religion was. So I started looking into this more and more and found out, you know, I know you've found this in your research to the Nostek writings and the Dead Sea Scrolls, anything that you can stamp a mystery on and say, read between the lions, my brother, see they were writing about this back then. Well, they'll introduce this thing. An example of this and you can find this in Latter-Rain. Branum was teaching from the book of Enoch and he said multiple times, you know, the Christian identity movement had this other thing they did. They called it typology.

What you see, what you read is a type and we'll apply that type to today, and you can literally stamp anything that you want to put into your agenda as a type. As long as you can find some passage to quote, well, Brannum would type Enoch to his small little group, and he would say that Enoch was translated, but he stayed on Earth 500 years to walk with Noah, and Enoch typed the bride while Noah typed the church that wasn't good enough, and the Bible says 365 years, and then walk with God, but in the book of Enoch, which is extra

biblical, it had the 500 years. So this was an extra biblical source, and it led me down this path of reading, well, if you got it from there, what other sources did he quote? I've read all the Dead Sea Scrolls, and a lot of these things that people would just shake their head. What in the world are you doing, John? Yeah, John, you get me scribbling stuff down again as you're talking, because actually that really brings up a big deal. Moving back into more of the solid, if you want to call that, sons of God teachers, Bill Britton, who have harped on quite a bit, read quite a

lot of his stuff to hurt his old tapes that he did, and communicating with this daughter, Bill Britton would call that Types and Shadows, and actually he would say that it's here a little there, a little precept upon precept, and he would take things from the Old Testament and call them Types and Shadows, and as you said, could you bring up all kinds of stuff where he said, no, the plain meaning isn't anything like what you just said. So I found this very interesting, I can't remember if we talked about this yet, maybe we did, but there's a ministry called Good

Seeds, and Good Seeds, Taiki and Terry Crisp, that's C-R-I-P-S, they talk about these same sorts of things with Britton, George Houghton, George Warnuck, and George Warnuck, and his writings, for example, the Feast of Tabernacles. Yeah, the Feast of Tabernacles. He does a lot with the same sort of stuff, so something very interesting came about with all of this is a friend of mine who was an ex-New Ageer sent to me a document called the Amazing Neil Pentecostals and their New Age teachings. Well, lo and behold, this was made from the perspective of a Alice Bailey following

straight up New Age person, his name was Ernest Ramsey. And Ernest Ramsey found the writings of Bill Britton and George Warnock and really promoted them and said, hey, you know, these guys are teaching the same kind of stuff as us.

And we were looking for the reappearance of the Christ and externalization of the hierarchy, all those things you get from Alice Bailey and her disciples in the New Age movement. And the reason was they said that Bill Britton and Warnock were teaching more these types and shadows.

And this was some more of a cobalistic method of finding truth. And so, yeah, that was like a real mind-blower. And the reason I brought up the crisp and at the good seeds is they also are quite aware of the parallels between essential New Age teachings with more of what they call the sonship message, which is manifest sons of God.

So yeah, and the thing about Enic, one of the main disciples of Jane Leed, of course, she's in the 17th century, and the latter reign prophets, one of them named Royal Cronquist. He had these prophecies, he called them Epistles of the Kingdom.

So I took upon myself to read every single one of them and note whatever I found. One of them is very interesting. He said, apparently speaking, Jesus is speaking through him, he says, can you handle it if I reveal the secrets of Enic, who, you know, that's a real leading comment there.

And so yeah, he teaches all kinds of wacky stuff that he got apparently from Enic and everybody else. He's willing to the great cloud of witnesses, which I know you can get that from Swift.

So coming back to Swift, the great cloud of witnesses is sort of like a crystallized, abtized version of what New Ages would think of as spirit guides and what Valentinus would have called the Pluroma, which is the spiritual realm.

And so making contact with them and even allowing them to channel through your body is one of the teachings that you find in the sons of God message. He probably running into this, John, is at Swift also taught the same sort of thing that comes from Enic, or the book of Enic.

He calls it the Watchers. He says, you know, the Watchers are circling the globe and looking for people to assist. And Jane Leade said that the, in a similar fashion, that those of... mighty position in the heavenlies are looking for those on earth through whom they can communicate truth and essentially come into union with. Yeah, this watchers theology. It was something that I grew up with and we didn't call it that, but William Brandham had essentially rebranded the Christian identity to see doctrine of Wesley Swift and the celestial bodies, doctrines, and Brandham claimed.

See, these guys used the UFOs to their advantage. They had been teaching all of this extra biblical revelations and whenever they introduced themes from, you know, the book of Enoch and whatnot, if they could tie it to anything in current events, it would further emphasize what they were saying and people would go, oh, I see this in current events. So it must be true. So they got a lot of mileage out of the UFO craze. That is really incredible. Yeah, never really. Well, obviously, you're so familiar with Brandham's writings, but the only thing I knew about that was the very

generalized statement that he made that if they were bad aliens in UFOs, there must be good ones too, you know, what a leap of logic that was. But also the part about Enoch and the introduction of more esoteric themes. As I was reading the writings of Swift, I ran into some of these sort of phrases which anybody from the New Age or from the sons of God ideas would probably perk up the ears. One thing he said, well, and he put this in all caps when he wrote this, he says, the ruler of the New Age is the Christ. Okay, well, you can kind of

pick at that and say, well, he doesn't mean what they mean. But he words it in a way that's very similar to New Age folks is not saying Jesus Christ or the Messiah or the return of Jesus. It's the Christ in all caps. And he says this will be the beginning of the kingdom as a theocracy. Of course, we've heard that one before. He talks about the Enoch and the special angels as you were mentioning the celestial beings bringing the knowledge of science and technology to folks and the great witness of the pyramid. This is a really strange thing, John, which I tried to

try to see if maybe Swift picked us up somewhere and really didn't think in the through, which is likely. But it's a very strange phrase he put here. And so I kind of just wrote it down to verbatim, like what he said. He said that Enoch recorded the mystery of law. There's that undefined mystery. And he says this aligns with Saturn and Jupiter. Well, if you look into stuff like really.

occultic stuff they have those those balances of negas like yin yang kind of stuff evil and good and he says the mystery of law unites two opposites very very esoteric kind of way looking at things one of satanic power one of the divine power these two laws will come together in conjunction well if you get any of that stuff this you can get that stuff from purely frankly from purely satanic groups where they talk about Sophia and the christ will come together what comes to mind a real blatant version of this is with the the process church of the final

judgment they're fairly notorious back in the 60s satanic group who they constantly said these things you say oh whether they're satanic they must have little you know like pitchforks and where uh read uh robes or something not you know they just look like hippies essentially but in their writings they're constantly talking about this balance for doing good and evil now if you're coming from a Christian perspective you would say no christ really can't be united to anything evil because at that point you don't really have christ anymore you have evil sub you know uh gathering christ or fusion christ into evil and therefore their version of christ is

christ is not even there at all so um oh then another thing you know as as of course the uh the idea that the mystery religions which you mentioned before john the mystery religions uh were one of the places where the so-called the white race uh the children of god the children of a horse of cyrus uh found a way to be uh them in their teachings to be preserved and passed on to to the future and so uh swift mention this and it's very interesting because uh Helena Blavatsky uh the founder of the theosophical society said very similar things and she said that

the religion of the future will be a restoration of these uh uh mystery religions likewise Alice Bailey in the 1920s 30s 40s she said uh very similar comments for where the new age teachings will be a resurgence of the mystery religion so how many directions that counts as uh connects us in like you said john it can make your head spin uh and but uh a big a big uh if you even go before valentines uh a lot of the folks in the esoteric uh track of thinking, they really referenced Plato.

And so before I got to reading this stuff, it's like, yeah, yeah, Plato, I heard of him. So he's just a philosopher. But in the hands of esoteric folks, they get things like reincarnation,

becoming divine, et cetera. So yeah, and so when I ran into Swift, as you said also, he's using actually, I think, as a sermon, it says, the Dead Sea Scrolls validate Christian identity. No, you mentioned Sophia coming together and how compatible this is with the esoteric world.

One of the things that made it so compatible in my opinion is that the Jewish conspiracy from which all of this was built upon, you had all of these elements as the foundation, the British Israelism, the Jewish conspiracy, et cetera.

What they were trying to project politically was the notion that you can look among the people in the government and they look like normal people, but these are the bad seed. And so they're so close, they would deceive you that you might be deceived by these politicians or whatever.

It was a political scheme, what they were doing, but they often referenced Matthew 24, 24, you know, that verse says false cries, false prophets, which show great sign and wonders. And if it were possible to see the very elect, well, we heard this phrase over and over and over, but they took the first part of this out.

Often when they quoted that verse, they would say the two would become so close that they would deceive the elect, and they would take off the if possible. So in other words, you're going to be deceived in the way that they snip that verse up, sounds nothing like what the original context was, but what they were doing was they were projecting the notion that you can't trust anyone.

We alone have the truth and it's hidden in this mystery that only we can establish and tell for you. And in the end, like you said, you know, it really is just an esoteric religion, but it's weird because it was a political esoteric religion.

Yeah, and isn't it ironic that the folks that are doing the most damage and the most deception possible are the ones who will take that truth about, you know, beware, be on guard because they're false cries, there's false prophets, false teachers.

You say, they're too, I mean, you're one of them, but it's so hard to make that connection once you're in there. Like I said to you before, my experience, direct experience with this stuff on the inside was being in a church that followed the teachings of Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagen, I usually called them nowadays.

You saw the two apostate kinets and then Hobart Freeman, which you're aware of. There's a copy of Haggons. Yeah, the copy of Haggons. Or you can call them the... No, let's don't call them.

What they deserve to be called. So, sorry, anyway, sorry. Sorry, anyway. Yeah, taking this idea that Swift somehow was in the line or the stream that came from folks like Valentinis. They got funneled through folks like Jane Leed and then her descendants in the latter reign movement of 1948.

If you take that stream and go through Jane Leed in particular, she had certain ways of mentioning how the sons of God will be manifested, how they will come into divinity essentially. And so if you think of Wesley Swift as one who has sort of a Jane Leed style of deification, he would say things like this.

The sons of God were pre-existent celestial beings known as the Elohim. Okay, you can unpack that in a lot of different ways. But it's essentially saying what most of the folks in the deep end of the pool of the sons of God teachings, they essentially say this, which absolutely fits the ascetic teachings.

They say that before we were incarnate, we were basically angels divine. We were quote the sons of God, but they mean something different by that divine beings. We became incarnate and now we're sort of absolutely fitting with the ascetic world.

We're making our way back to our original pre-existent status as divine beings. How this will happen is the heavens and the earth, meaning the angelic realm and the corporate, I mean the corporate body of Christ here on earth will come into union.

And when that happens, well, then we'll have the reconciliation of all things, the restoration of all things were above and below. There you go, another big esoteric idea, became one or become one. So, and here's another thing that really sounds very much like what I've read from Jane Lee.

So, if said the New Jerusalem, which descends upon the elite, is an emanation of the chicana glory. When you look at the sons of God teachings, the chicana glory doesn't mean you start glowing or you start looking like Moses, who came down from the mountain in his face, was shiny.

It's not like the transfiguration heard Christ. emanating this great light, you find it in their teachings, you can pretty much equate the Shakyana glory with the Perusia and with the coming of Christ in the individual personal beings from the great cloud of witnesses.

So if you're quite all those things and okay, yeah, this New Jerusalem is descending, it's not actually a city and their conception, it's a great return of the spiritual world. And you definitely get that in Swethees, he sort of locks it in or connects it with UF ships returning to the earth and you know, he's talking about that kind of stuff again.

But if you get it down to the basic general idea, it's very similar, there's a connection. And so he said that this is a covering which will belong to all the sons of God, which will descend upon you and restore immortality, restore immortality, yeah, because if you're a son of God in the heavenlies and you essentially an angelic being when you became incarnate on earth, you're going to have to make your way back to that immortal status as an angelic son of God.

And so this restoration of immortality, the covering, if you're not really into the deep meanings of that, you just say, oh, the covering is sort of like a protection. But not really in this sort of like I said, the deep end of the pool, covering is referring to something like the New Jerusalem descending upon you.

It's a means of becoming divine immortal again, they say. And so here's what he says, this sounds like Jane Lee, like Bill Britton, even like folks like, say, and Jimenez, who tries to tiptoe around this stuff and not say it too explicitly.

But and Jimenez, this has been in 1980s to the 1990s, a little bit in the 2000s. She being influenced by Bill Britton, and you can see how the curse backwards, Bill Britton being influenced by Jane Lee, Jane Lee being influenced by all the esoteric thought.

But and Jimenez says, I'm so sorry, this is this is Wesley Swift sounded like and Jimenez. He said that the manifestation of the sons and daughters of God is going to be the most important event that ever happened in human history.

You know, you like you taking the notes whenever you're talking, I'm taking notes and the the Shaqina glory, I can't tell you how many sermons that I heard about this growing up. And whenever we left the cult and went into the Christian world, and understanding that the Christian meaning of this is simply where two or three are gathered in my name, I'll be in your midst.

That's literally what, that's the Christian method of believing this. But in Latter-Rain, Sir William Brandham associated that to his alleged halo. And that halo was widespread among Latter-Rain as belief that this was the Shakaina glory coming down.

And so you'll hear sermon after sermon after sermon about the Shakaina glory. And the meaning of it is different because me as a Christian believing, I was in a Christian in this cult that pretended to be Christian, if I went with a friend of mine into their house and I'm talking about Jesus, and we were two gathered in his name, right?

I didn't, I wasn't allowed to believe that that was a Shakaina glory. It was only this wonderful thing, this manifestation of God. And you're right, it was Wesley Swift taught this, and the version that William Brandham had, I think it might have predated Swift.

As I mentioned, there's some cross-pollination there. I think Swift may have actually taken that from the Latter-Rain movement, but in either case, what it ended up with, that hothiology, was esoteric in nature, not Christian in nature, just as you pointed out.

Yeah, and speaking of esoteric blinding or coming into contact with sons of God, and then whatever connections that led to, with folks like Swift and Christian identity, there's something that I ran into at first, and when I was doing research, it sounded like an absolute contradiction, and it couldn't really wrap my head around it, but it heads at hunch.

And so I pursued the hunch and tried to figure out what it was about. So here's what it was. And sons of God teaching and in lead, and even in Valentinus, so we have fewer of his documents to analyze.

Mostly it's from the church father, Iron A's that we know about Valentinus. So in all of those venues, if you say, there's a concept that there's a segment of the church or a society or both that will not make it, and they will have to be literally physically removed.

Okay, so in Valentinus' situation, he said that there's three different levels of humanity, and boy, this sounds a lot like George Warner, it actually sounds a lot like Alice Bailey, but the first three initiations is what she would call it.

So for Valentinus, there was the lower round, the middle round and the higher round, and I didn't really care about the levels. He calls one the pneumatics on the psychics, and I forgot what he called the other one.

The names right there don't really matter, but it's a concept. So the upper, upper level literally will be infused, receive bodily, they're angelic counterpoints. This will make them sinless. And so they would receive quote the light or the personal, bridegrooms, bridegroom spirits.

That's what he would say, that group. And it's like, there's an eschatology to it. It's not like, yeah, what can kind of do this? It comes and goes. He's actually got an idea where at the end of time, they will be fused.

Well, what else happens? There's a middle branch. That's the average Christians who may receive the notices, but so far they haven't. So they they're going to be destroyed or maybe we'll keep them around and see if we can't convert them.

Then there's the bottom round and they will literally be taken out. They'll be destroyed at the so-called eschaton, meaning the end of time. So what I found was that kind of stuff, I could find it all over the place with sons of God teachers like George Houghton, Roe Cronquist, Sam V. Bill Britton, Preston J. E. B., all those guys had some take on this kind of stuff.

As does I mentioned before, Bill Hammond, one of the major prophets of the of the Naur. So you get this concept of, yeah, at some point, we're going to have to take these guys out.

God will supply the means or maybe we'll take physical means like say guns, who knows, but the concept is there. What I began to find I would chain lead and I also saw this was swift, it was very fascinating.

They had a sacred purge with a caveat. Okay, what in the world could that mean? It means this that universal restitution, restoration, reconciliation is part of the game. Oddly enough, with all that weird stuff that Swift said about we will kill for the kingdom, Yada Yada.

Okay, he's got a big component of that. You can also find in his writings, but they will be restored through death. Okay, so we're going to kill them, but it's sort of like a George Oralian thing.

Yeah, death is life or something like that. So we kill them, but later they will have another chance. You can take that in reincarnation if you want. So you can see that kind of thing with Alice by Lee and the New Age.

You can also see that with Swift and you can also see that kind of thinking. with Jane Lee. So there's this, yeah, we do the judgment day, but at the same time they're having this, it seems like almost like a contradictory idea that there's going to be universal salvation. So the caveat is, yeah, universal, but what the little twist is, we'll get rid of some of these guys that don't really fit in, they're hindering the kingdom of God, or they're in their opposition to the establishment of the new age, they'll be taking care of God

rid of, but in the end, everything will be okay, because they will be saved in spirit, even though the bodily, even though the body or the flesh, as I would say, would have to be destroyed.

So here's a couple of things from Sweth that kind of said it. Oh, here's a quotation I can give you. They really, really fits this. So Sweth says, quote, all the creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for immortality to return to the sons, who will then purge out those who should not be there. Okay, that's pretty clear. That sounds like manifest sons of God. So for as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of some son of man? At that time, the overwhelming armies of God will remove the enemies from the face of

the earth. The armies of heaven will join with the armies of earth, that's what I was saying, that to be merged, and all powers of darkness will be crushed. This will be the cleansing of the earth by the sons of God, straight out Jane Lee kind of stuff. Okay, here's the caveat. Then he says, we will kill to save the kingdom. Even so, they will be saved by fire since the restitution of all things will include the restoration of the wicked. So they're being restored, yet they're being killed. They're being taken out. This is probably one of the main reasons. I think it is

the main reason. The Bill Britain says the wrath of God is the love of God. Okay, and then here's another thing from Swift. He says in this restoration of all things, the enemies of God, we will fall at your feet and acknowledge that you are the sons and daughters of God, and that they are not the chosen people. Okay, so he's really getting the dig in on Jews at that point. And then, of course, he says, God didn't say that you have to wait for this gathering of the tears. And this biblical illusion to those who are not really of the kingdom, he says, we don't have to wait for the angels to

do all this. So you've got these two hands, death, life, but He merges them together. That's why I say it's the sacred purge for the caveat. You just sent chills up my spine, man. I feel it all over my body. You read that quote from Wesley Swift and suddenly all these alarm bells are going off in my head. I've heard that phrase over and over and over. I'll read you an example of a 1960, May of 1960. He said, now the whole creation is groaning, waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Well, I'd imagine Paul just had a wonderful time and he goes on to say he made known to us the mystery. So in all of all of this, he is quoting exactly from Wesley Swift and that alone should so send chills up my spine. But the fact that I grew up with this, not knowing that this was this really, really dark and sinister agenda and it's being spread all throughout the lettering movement through William Brannum. It really, again, it goes back to the political aspects of this movement. This was weaponized religion for the sake of politics and the fact that

you can quote Swift and I can quote Brannum, put them together and they're saying the same exact thing at this, almost the same exact time even. It's just mind-boggling. Yeah, John, if I can tack on something to that, which I agree what you're saying there.

The first time I've really heard, or even without looking at any of this research, if you just look at the scripture in Romans 8, it's talking about the whole creation groans for the manifestation of the sons of God because the whole creation was subjected to, and there's different ways to have this translated, but the whole creation has been subjected to decay, to sin, and to the bondage of sin. And therefore, with the sons of God, these things, at that moment, these things will be cleansed of and the earth will, the kingdom of God will become.

Okay, if you're looking at that kind of scripture outside of all this whackingness, that sounds like something very positive. It's the beginning of the kingdom of God with return to Jesus Christ. And never again, when you shut it here, everything will be established in, it'll be a holy place, it'll be a wonderful place, it'll be reunion with Christ and your loved ones. But then, as I went deeper into seeing how those folks interpret this kind of idea,

the groaning creation is actually groaning to be relieved of sin and sinners. You can even see that in Franklin Hall's teachings to where, what they're groaning for is that this has to be rectified. There's going to be a judgment, there's going to be the removal of an awful lot of folks, and that's what will Bring the sense of God into this glorious liberty. So it's another kind of or willy and thing unless you dig and begin to hear what they're actually saying and it comes with the types and shadows kind of thing where There's always a deeper

Loaded language aspect of it. So you just quote the scripture and look at it face value say, yeah, I can see that That's the return of Christ the kingdom God But as you tack that on with the types and shadows that are being revealed and with the the way that these phrases are being loaded and redefined Tremendously so then you see that what you're actually getting is the opposite a la Bill Britton saying the love of God is the wrath of God and vice versa. Yeah, I'm glad you jogged my memory on that passage because I was in my head. I was trying to remember that

Where did that conference like pull it up? But When you hear the phrase manifested sons of God spoken in Latter-Rain it is such an It's even anti-biblical. I was going to say extra biblical. It's anti-biblical what they teach and This this thought hit me, you know as I'm studying the Bible after I left and I'm understanding At that time, I didn't understand the overloaded meaning of manifested sons of God. I just knew that it was wrong But if you go you go back up in that chapter just a bit It says the spirit itself bear witness of our spirit that we are the children of God

So if you put this in the context when it's talking about the world is groaning waiting for the children of God to arise the manifestation of the sons of God Well, they've ripped that verse out when you think of Brandoms and Wesley Swift's manifested sons of God. That's not what they're talking about So instead of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, which is what the Bible said They're turning it into this and UFOs and These celestial bodies and the watchers and all of this esoteric nonsense. It is anti-biblical and All you have to do like I said just read verse 16 is we are the children of God

Yeah, John if and if I can throw a little zinger at the end a little kind of worms to be open up later Another thing that I found it was quite fascinating was as I was researching This deep end of the pool with the sons of God teachings and simultaneously looking at the Alice Bailey version Of of new age teachings When Alice Bailey says the externalization of the hierarchy and she predicts that this will begin to the process will begin sometime in 2025 so yeah, so what knows what she really means or what will occur. But she says, the externalization of the

spiritual hierarchy is essentially these divine beings being channeled to willing host to help prepare the world for the Christ. Well, if you look at the sons of God teachings, they run very parallel with that where the manifestation of the sons of God is not those really that are present on earth being perfected. And yeah, here we are. We are being manifest.

We're the wonderful sons of God here, the elite. It actually means when you look at raw, raw, pronquist, David, Ebal, Bill Britton, and Jane Leed, what it means is that the spiritual beings, in other words, those who are already the spirits of just men, made perfect in the heavenlies, i.e. the great cloud of witnesses, they will be manifested through the sons of God.

That's what makes them the sons of God. So they're already sons of God in the heavenlies, waiting to be made manifest through the many-membered corporate body of Christ on earth. So in essence, the externalization can be equated with the manifestation. So that's, like I said, it's a can of worms, but it's something that I don't really see a lot of folks aware of that. But yeah, what it does is it aligns the really wacky new age ideas with the really wacky sons of God ideas.

Yeah, you know, in the end, when you take a step back from all of this, when you're in it, it's different. When you're in it, you're in the hype, you're in the emotion, they're really playing like the puppet on the strings. They're really toying with your emotions to try to keep you in this thing, right? When you come off the strings and you're sitting there thinking about the fact that you don't have these strings that they're toying with your emotions, you really take a step back and you think, all of this just doesn't make sense. It is so, it's so far out there, right?

But when you're in it in the heat of the moment, you don't recognize that. But getting away from this and simply just, I think I've mentioned to you, I know I have the others, I just read the Bible like over and over. I lost count, but it was between 10 and 15 times. Just simply read right Bible will help you cleanse this out of your mind because what they're telling you and what the Bible says, when read in context is completely different, not even the same religion whatsoever.

And to think that my perspective was the laterane side through Brannum, but to think that all of these movements that came that were built on top of that, to think that they're stacked up and some of them still standing today is just, for me it's real.

think that on such a false foundation that those things can even exist today. Yeah, I think it comes down to rewording, repackaging. It's like Jane Leade, 101, Jane Leade, 102, and manifest sons of gods and William Brandon and Wesley Swift.

Same thing, it gets repackaged. And so what I do when people say, yeah, this stuff is not related. Technically, if you look historically, some of it is not directly related and connected. But if you go to the general, I'm an ex-English teacher.

So what you have the kiddos do constantly is either want them to elaborate on something because they say, I had a great summer. OK, great, that's wonderful. Let's expound upon that. Or what you want to do is be able to read something that may be much more wordy and detailed and summarize it.

What is the central truth here? What is it in general? How can you bring that down? And actually, there's a funny website. I think it's called, I forgot the name of the website, but they have stuff like Jane, they have say like Shakespeare in a minute.

So they'll take like a hamlet, and it'd be hamlet holds a skull, hamlet, kill stuff, hamlet dies, and that's it. So that's the summary. So what they're, and I think I probably get that wrong.

But they'll do Jane Austin and others who sometimes are very verbose and went on and on and on. And so I try not to let my students get a hold of that because they would take a book that maybe we had to read and they would follow suit.

But my point is that when you look for the general spaceships returning, angels returning, watchers returning, sometimes this is called the great return. OK, so whatever they are, they're beyond human abilities and humanity here on Earth.

They're somehow higher and the ideas they're going to return to either help or to infuse or to show the way to communicate through, but you have these commonalities. And then of course, they're the same thing with the theocracy, like you know, see Peter Wagner.

I don't remember him hearing him ever say the word theocracy, influencing society. OK, he generally means the same when you see his definition and also taking dominion. That's a sense of God phrase. Of course, the Norfolk's prefer to say other ways of saying that like the seven mountains, you know, that they will take control of.

So generally speaking, it's the same stuff there's just so much here and I'm so excited to get into this with you Steve I know we've got more to do we're kind of planning out the roadmap of the converging apostasy podcast and it's as I'm reworking the Historical podcast how they all you know come together How I think the listeners are just gonna be mind blown when they see all of this you've changed your your book names And I think you have a book out there. Why don't you tell our listeners again how to get your books

Yeah, John. Well, first of all, thanks for having me again Really enjoy doing this. I think it can be valuable to folks in different ways Yeah, I have two books out now right right now both of them are paperback in ebook The first is a fairly long one. Well, 470 some odd pages and it's got loads of detail. It goes through the The 10 different themes that I think I find being expressed your Apostasy and the title of that one is the converging apostasy The other one I'm thinking of as a primer to that And it's it's really short. It's about 60 pages paperback or ebook. I called that one a quick outline of quote hands on

eschatology unquote A matter of timing and agency So just to unpack that what it does is it talks about the themes of perfection Dominionism and a sacred purge and it goes through history all the way back to Valentinis goes through jane lead goes through manifest sons of god teachers and in step with the nor and analysis through direct quotations or direct quotes of all those folks Excellent. Well, I can say I'm really excited to get more into this with you and things of I know we've kind of both been tied up a bit not not been able to but things are clearing up for me

So hopefully we get more of these in the future If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the web You can find us at william-branum.org For more information about the dark side of latirane read weaponized religion from latirane to calonia digna dad available on amazon kindle and audible

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