Converging Apostasy: Jane Lead, Bill Britton, and the NAR

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me I have Steve Montgomery, the author of The Converging Apostasy, and a quick outline on hands-on eschatology, a matter of timing and agency. And together, we're examining the themes of apostasy in the New Apostolic Reformation and its history. Steve, it's been a while since we have spoken. Things have been, for me, it's just a whirlwind. I know to the listeners and the audience, these are scheduled out,

so it doesn't look like it, but we have had such a flurry of people from the NAR who are escaping and contacting me, and I'm doing, as you know, on Fridays doing these interviews for the hour stories, and gosh, I think I'm stacked out with podcast releases for the next several weeks, and it's going to look like it's close together, but it's been a while since we've spoken, and a lot of the people who are escaping the NAR, they're referencing directly in my communications with them, things that you and I have mentioned on this podcast. So I'm assuming that this is making

a much bigger impact than even it seems from the surface, but anyway, it's good to be back, good to be with you again, and we're kicking off. I was reading through the notes that you have on this podcast, and there's just so many interesting things to talk about. I didn't even know, I'll have to come up with a label of a title for this, because there are just so many interesting things that are combined into one episode. I think the correct term will be a jam-packed episode.

Yeah, John. Yeah, one kind of way to look at this for me is that I think of it as kind of the continuing saga of Jane Leade, and Jane Leade, of course, her predecessors were pretty much the movers and the shakers of the esoteric world, and what came through Jane Leade in the 1700s was her eschatology, which clearly set out to set presidents for a perfection of the church.

Before Christ would be allowed to return, that should sign familiar for Naur people. And then taking Dominion, which should sign similar to the Seven Mountains of the Naur, and then finally the Purge, which I think of as a sacred Purge, that can be seen in modified version through the Naur, and pretty much not modified version, just purely stated through Bill Hammond, one of their central prophets. So I'm looking back to Jane Leade, that I'm getting a big focus on Bill Gritten, because he was one of those who came through the laterary movement, highly developed and highly respected in the so-called Manifest Sons of God doctrines,

which again is perfection, dominion, and purge. And then he, in turn, was able to influence people like John Jim and his Earl Palk, the so-called Kingdom Message of the 80s. And after that, of course, you get the Naur. So that's kind of my perspective on where this can be taken.

And I did make a note from the last podcast we did that you were talking about

the political slash even Nazi connections with some of the, or neo-Nazi kind of connections KKK, also with some of the latter-ranked leaders. And I can say that this makes sense, because latter-ranked leaders and prophets, such as Bill Gritten, were very apt to use terms like this.

This is a direct quote from Bill Gritten. He says that the new order in the new age for the Kingdom of God is what will be us again. And for example, he says this statement, the new age is upon us, and the new age is the fullness of God in operation with the sons. So this talk of establishing a new world order, although that sounds very conspiratorial kind of theory. It's really purely stated in Bill Britten, George Houghton, J. Preston, EB, all of the ones that were highly influenced by J. Leib. And just to kick off in that same general direction of Nazi slash political kind

of connotations that come in with the Naur, I can say that even through Bill Britten, who a lot of people said, oh no, he's a prophet of God, he never got into these sort of wild beliefs.

Well, there was some precedence set for anti-Semitism. So one of the ways I determined this was by calling Bill Britten's daughter Becky. And she said that she- knew that her dad had inspired David Ebaugh, and they had sort of a friendly relationship as prophets, and David Ebaugh, as you know, John, was a promoter of Christian identity, identity, racist theories, and he also had one foot in the world at the manifest sons of God teachings.

So another one of those examples of ongoing revelations that sent people to just gather up all these kind of wild ideas and mix it in one pot. Then Britain said this, which I thought was kind of unusual, but also fitting, he said that the blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross came from God the Father, and this was the reason that his life was eternal.

It's interesting, it's getting into that kind of racial purity and blood purity. He also said that the Jews are the rejected people, and he said that spiritual Israel is the so-called corporate body of Christ, as you hear quite often manifest sons of God literate and Norfolk.

Yeah, I'll have to admit, whenever I saw that you were getting into the new world order focus in this podcast, I get really excited because I'm working on my manuscript for my next book, and I'm diving deep into where that came from.

Once I, like you mentioned, once I discovered that this was closely related to the Nazi movement that hit the United States in the early, what was it, 1930s, I think it was. I suddenly realized we're all of this came from, and I started going back through all of the laterane quotes that just were a little bit off, you know, they weren't outright Nazi propaganda by no means, but they're just a little bit off.

They would say things like William Brannum, he was the leader of the Revivals, right? He said that the gospel was not even to the Jews, and he ridiculed ministers for trying to preach to Jewish people, which is wrong, right?

It's anti-Semitic to think this way. The Apostle Paul even said the gospel is first to the Jews, right? Well, when you mix British Israelism in this, you get the idea that the Jews that we see in the world today, according to this, weird theology of British Israelism, they're not the real Jews.

We're the supernatural spiritual Jews or whatever, however they present it. And it's in its simplicity, it's just pure anti-Semitism, and it came from an ideology that, you know, it's what fueled Hitler, and we saw the fruits of that.

So I got really excited. That's where my book is headed, and looking through the notes you have in here, there are some interesting figures in the path to what we see today as the NAR.

And they're just subtle hints at bad theology that really came from that earlier laterane roots, right? And as they built upon it and as these theologies just morphed and shifted over time, they really looked nothing like they were in laterane, but you can see clearly the progression of how they shifted and where they ended up today is just mind-boggling.

In no way, shape or form resembles Christianity. Yeah, John, totally agree with that statement. And to follow up on that is as things come, they're sifted through so many steps along the way, you know, Jane Leade and then the Nazi thing.

One thing that was pretty prevalent in pre-Nazi, Germany, were the teachings of several different societies, such as the Philosophical Society of Helena Blavatsky. And she was very purely anti-Semitic. If you read her secret doctrines, you know, she had several different volumes of that, which happened to weed through, and that can be up late at night sometimes.

But yeah, she credits her anti-Semitic thought to people like Valentinus, the gnostic that I've referred to several times.

But focusing again on Britain and how he, in turn, influenced the gnar, I can say this, he had some teachings on angels. All these guys have extreme ideas about angels. And so like Bill Hammond and others in the gnar, Bill Britain said, quote, the sons of God are destined to govern angels.

Really, I don't know. That was part of her mission as Christians. And he says these ministering spirits are mighty servants who will obey completely the voice of that people who rise up in divine dominion to the throne of God.

So again, he's a Jane lead influence ladder rain prophets, so let's take you back a few years. But comments like these are very clearly heard through people like Bill Hammond and other people in the gnar.

So here's another angle on the angel thing. Jane Leite said, Christ above and Christ beneath will join together. In this goes to Kabbalah, which deeply influenced hers, one of the central ideas or streams of thought that's run through esoteric teachings.

This is also conveyed through teachings about Jacob's ladder. This is really, really high octane kind of stuff in esoteric thought. So how did Bill Britten relate to this? Britten said that Jacob's ladder was a bridge of transport from earth to heaven and heaven to earth.

And he's not talking about a sensation of feeling a raised attitude of your faith. He's talking about literal transport of souls on earth to heaven and or divinity actually. And then those spirits of perfect men made just in the great cloud of witnesses, then having transport to earth.

So this is similar to Rick Jr. and his sort of comments of Britten said that the ladder will be the means of heaven and earth being joined as one. That sounds like almost directly that joiner got that from Bill Britten.

And that would be no surprise because Jorner is, according to Bill Mackinstad, who studied all this stuff and read everything he could get his hands on. According to Bill, Jorner was another one who played rise in Jane Leeds teachings and was highly influenced.

Now this next thing, a couple of things here that I've marked as, say, slowly because this is going to be a mouthful, but if you're comparing laddering, manifestants of God of prophets to the esoteric realm of teachings, you get this kind of connection.

So I'll go ahead and read what I've got here. This ascent of humanity up to divinity and the descent of angelic beings down to humanity is depicted in the logo of the occultist Helena Blavatsky's Theosophical Society by two intersecting triangles.

If I'm not mistaken, you could tell me otherwise John, but I think that's what you'd call the star of David, that sort of form of a triangle. So the point of one of the triangles going down is the angelic realm being infused with humanity and the sons of God and so on.

And the point going up is that is sent back into the to heavenlies for the corporate body of Christ on earth. Here's another thing that I've written down, I said, say it slowly. The Christian identity preacher Wesley A. Sweat and the Jane lead influence laddering profit, role-cronquest made mysterious comments about unidentified, powerful others unknown to Christians.

at this time. These others, one, cannot be resisted. They're powerful. Two, they will come to prepare the way of the Christ. In three, they are described in terms that sounds very much like the spiritual hierarchy of the New Age teachings, principally through alicebate. Likewise, Britain makes vague references to powerful guests, other than Christians that we know that might come back to fulfill a ministry.

And he says these guests will be present at the wedding feast. Wedding feast, another big

loaded term that comes all the way back to the bridal feast, the bridal chamber, and all that kind of stuff in the less terrible world. And that comes to us today, primarily through, again, Valentines. So likewise, the influential New Age author, Alice Bailey, said that the enlightened people who rule will not tolerate anyone who holds beliefs contrary to the injured energies of the plan. You know, I'm a big fan of the Marvel movies, but even more than that, I'm just fascinated with ancient mythologies. I love studying ancient Greek and Norse and Roman Egyptian. And it reminds

you of the rainbow bridge, right? Probably pronounces incorrectly, but I think it's Bill Ross is how they say it. But in the Thor movies, it's the big rainbow bridge where they're, you know, they're crossing over. They have tried to take ancient mythologies and mix it with pseudo-Christianity because it's all of the fantasy makes it appealing to the itching ears. That's really all of it.

All this is. And they love talking about angels and demons because if they can get your mind focused on a fantasy world that you can't see, you can't feel, it shuts off critical thought.

In fact, a few of the people, not just one, but multiple of the people I've talked to who've left the NAR was very much like we were leaving the Laterane and its plunger groups. You lived in a world filled with you thought filled with angels and demons. If you stumped your toe, well, there must have been a demon there. And if it healed quickly, it must have been an angel. I mean, I'm exaggerating, right? But it was almost to that level. And they put you in this weird mindset.

And you can trace this back through time. If you want to go all the way back to the Nostics, you can find people doing this as a scheme to convince people into something that resembles Christianity and is not. But in Laterane, you know, you had numerous people, not just your brand about numerous people claiming angels and they were spoken to in these fascinating spiritual experiences. And then you examine their lives and you realize, well, that probably wasn't the right kind of spiritual experience, you know. And the thing that stands out the most, one of the people contacting me, they mentioned something that even I did not know.

You know, William Brannum had this angel, he gave, he claimed he had this angel, I should say. And he would claim, he would pray to it. It was on the stage with him and he would, he claimed, and he would say things like angel of God, I do not see you and then start praying to the thing, which is clearly against Christianity. And so he introduced this notion that it's okay if we pretend that we have angels and then everybody started doing it.

Well, whenever the Kansas City prophets formed, apparently, they all claimed that they were visited by this angel named Emma. And the guy told me, I'm scratching my head, how come I've never heard of this, right? William Brannum's alleged angel was male, clearly male.

He gives very, very different descriptions like if you were to be visited by an angel, it would be the most frightening and most, the thing that's burnt into your memory the most, if you were to be visited by an angel, well, he never could remember exactly what this thing looked like. Sometimes he's clean shaven, sometimes he's got hair, sometimes he got a turban. I mean, it's really weird. Well, apparently these, these guys from the Kansas City prophets, they invented a female version of the angel named Emma, who came down and was, you know, was giving apparently the prophetic insight to form this group, which

we see also did not really resemble Christianity that much. And so the guy told me this and I thought, no, that can't be. And he said, no, this is secret knowledge. He said, Paul Kane, who I think you and I have mentioned that I know Charles and I have, he was William Brannum's protégé, you know, Paul Kane, he's the one who inspired all of the Kansas City prophets. Now they're saying you can find articles on this. Paul Kane was deeply, deeply influential in creating all of this stuff. Well, apparently Paul, he said Paul Kane mentioned

that the angel Emma. And so I got online. I did some research. And if you go to the bariencall.org, you can find a whole article about this angel named Emma. And before it starts into the article, it mentions exactly the thought that come into my head when I'm talking to the guy, if an angel from heaven or any other preach any other gospel, then I preach to you, let him be a curse. And that's how the article starts. And you go back and you think of all of these men and these angels and these rainbow bridges and

other dimensions and they talk about your spiritual body over in the celestial beings. All of this, it's great work for a fantasy movie and I would love to watch a fantasy movie that they produce.

I would actually watch it, but it has no place in a sermon. Yeah, John, that's that's amazing stuff. First thing that came to my mind is you might have seen this too because I know you'd like sci-fi the adjustment bureau. Did you ever see that? That is so clearly based on and there's a book with that title prior to the movie. I forgot the the two stars, but it was it was well done.

It was a good Hollywood Hollywood presentation, but it very directly relates to the angelic beings the esoteric world, which would be the so-called spiritual hierarchy and there you go again with Alice Baby. Yeah, but a couple of more people that you can you can get the narfoges involved in this.

Obviously, Bill Hammond, which I think of the previous thing we did, I quoted him as saying that that each of us has a personal angel and that you can call them down. Well, that's that's straight up from the the plan book, the esoteric thought. Cindy Jacobs also says as someone of her books, she says she has a personal angel that's been assigned to her. This this comes straight from Valentinus, this sort of thought. Gwynne Shaw of in-time handmanes was another narfog and she was she wasn't one of those ones where you know like Brandon later people said, oh yeah, he was great

being able to get a little bit off track and you know, he's still a great profit. Not like that, Gwynne Shaw clearly plagiarized some teachings from a new age author. I don't have my notes in front of me here, who it was, but that's been very clearly documented. So she plagiarized these teachings and Cindy Jacobs continuously referred to Gwynne Shaw as a great prophetess and very very modally used by God in spiritual warfare sort of ideas, which the narf picked up on.

And of course, Cindy Jacobs' In-Gwynne Shaw continuously showed up in all of those

epistolic conferences where the prophets got together and dreamed up new stuff for the for all the poor Christians that are being manipulated. So this all fits under a topic I having front of me says, say what?

Okay, so here we go with Bill Britton, who's influenced all these people. So the first topic is Britton said, most people know that there's a life force that gives off rays of energy. Those who have a heavy radiation of this life force are able to demand your attention.

John, I know that you've talked with Stephen Doctors, Stephen Hassan, and he probably have a lot to say about this demand, your attention, because any kind of cult leader knows how to do that from Jim Jones to whoever else.

A second point, this is coming straight from Bill Britton. He says, enough exposure to the glory of God, meaning the sure kind of, will impregnate your very body. You can get that from James Lee, you can get that from a host of other people in this same line or stream of teachings.

Three, this is Bill Britton. He says, during the Jupiter effect in 1982, the planets lined up, putting stress on the world with the possibility of shifting the earth on its axis. I can't remember where I heard that, but I know 1982 was a big year for new age people who were waiting for supposedly the reappearance of the Christ in that year.

And so yeah, there was a lot of hubbub about astrological issues in this planet lining up with that. If you ever saw the cartoon version of Hercules, you would see something about the lining up of the planets.

And yeah, that goes back to mythology and so on. Number four, Britton says this, his, meaning Jesus, his blood had to be poured out upon earth because only through union with mother earth could he bring for sons and produce a divine company in his image.

Yeah, what? I mean, that is so off. Now, there's something that is sort of setting precedents for things to come. You could say, Embrydon didn't clearly state what it sounds like he's headed for, but you'll hear the same thing from Bill Britton, from Ray Prinzing and from David Ebal, each in their own separate ways of expressing this.

So what I'm gonna talk about here goes, the sexually promiscuous medieval brethren of this, sorry, brethren of the free spirit said, all things are lawful, okay? These, and because they were sexually promiscuous, we see what they mean by that.

The Satanist Alistair Crowley said in his book of the law Do what they willed? For that is the only law to follow now check out what Britain printing and e-ball all said and all of those What guys were later in influence which means Jane lead influence sons of God teachers Britain said For those who are brought in the absolute subjection to his will There is no law. They are led only by his spirit now John I think because of the things you're interested you might have heard of Thomas Munster. He was a contemporary of Martin Luther

But he said things like this also Yohakim or Joachim of Fiori said similar things about the The epic of the father the epic of the son and finally Something that sounds very later Danish he talked about the upcoming epic of the spirit You know as you're talking I was trying to picture what it would be like for one of our listeners who has never been in any of this Weird thing and it's trying to understand. Okay. What is the NAR and they hear some of these?

What are these things? What are these comments? Right and the funny part is while they're thinking that I'm actually being triggered as you're speaking because I grew up every single Bullet point that you mentioned in that entire segment I grew up and I can I can recite sermons about this stuff It's so weird man. The the light meters this this thing That's and I use the word meters because that's how I was that was the overloaded language that we had for this for this thing that William Brannum taught I was one of these very curious minds when I was a child

My parents used to get upset with me because when they'd give me a radio the very first thing I did was It's naked in my room. I take the thing apart and see what made it to what what's inside this thing always wanted to know had a curious mind and I Fortunately my grandmother's house. They had an entire set of encyclopedias So I could sit in these rooms and I could learn how everything works in the world around me and The first time I heard William Brannum describing these quote unquote light meters He's explaining that your whole body is made of light and it cosmic light

You know, it's just like it's Christian identity. That's all it is But he's saying it's cosmic light and he goes into this weird statement about science and he tries to say that science confirms this Absolute nonsense. He's saying and he says Science your body is full of light whoever heard of such it can't be no light in your body But they find that's wrong they invented an x-ray and the x-ray takes your own light meters Don't take any other light your own light makes the x-ray and the x-ray doesn't have any light of its own

Now when I heard that as a kid, you know, I still thought this bowzer was a prophet and I thought everything He said was divinely inspired by God But I did scratch my head because that's not how an x-ray machine works And I mean I'm this I'm literally this tall and I know that what he said was complete nonsense, right?

But I was so manipulated that I had to believe it and so my mind is wrestling with What he said is just not right. It's clearly not right But he said it and he's the prophet so I have to force myself to believe it and Like I said every single bullet point that you went through I can tell you where that came from in Latter-Rain And you can tell the audience where it goes way back into the spiritualism realm and you know We're bringing in some names that people know are not associated with Christianity My humble opinion because after studying some of these guys that are in the NAR

They have no idea these names that you're mentioning in the past. They got it directly from Latter-Rain But the Latter-Rain guys got it from the esoteric world and they brought it as this New revelation because if they could package something that they got from a witch They could say right this this witch has good Christian theology

Yeah, John and speaking of a witch they would influence somebody with Latter-Rain Basis further teachings and manifestants of God teaching The first thing that pops into my mind there is John Robert Stevens Who had by his account And by the interview that Mr. Nichols did with him Stevens Stevens had a so-called occult library where he had Emanuel Swedenberg Which would be a good tie-in for the spiritualism he also had the works of

Alistair Crowley interesting he also credited a lot of his knowledge to George Warnec's Feast of Tabernacles and to a witch he says that he converted and was constantly filling them in on Ideas that he determined although they came from the occult world were so-called Mutual because the spiritual realm is neutral. It's just that the devil has taken this stuff and stolen it from Christians And we have to reclaim it and use it in a godly fashion Okay, so yeah, and also I have in my in my The converging apostasy have quite a few different references to the pseudo-science that these guys try to use to

bad ties wacky ideas. One would be role-crown quest, again, influenced by Jane Leade. Franklin Hall, who's one of the craziest guys ever, but he does have some references to stuff. He said, yeah, he got that from pseudo science. Oddly enough, even Jane Leade, who was writing primarily in the 17th century, she said that science would verify different stuff, teachings about the divinity that was coming up. You clearly see that with Helena Blavatsky's Theosophical Society in the late 1800s, and just several other places.

So, yeah, they're constantly trying to find a way to justify this stuff and make it look like. It's not just somebody's brand and belief system. This is science, therefore, you gotta go with it.

So, again, talking about Bill Britton and his connection to Jane Leade, which is, as you point it out, all of sudden, I agree, is a connection to the esoteric world. Britton said this, and this is on the topic of perfection in rulership, and I say just perfection in rulership, all of Jane Leade. So, right, Bill Britton said, there must be people on earth just like Jesus.

He is the pattern, son, and his body is Christ. That sounds an awful lot like stuff I've heard from Kansas City Prophets and other, you know, nor related people. Here's another spot we have from himself, says, read slowly. Okay, so here we go. This is from Bill Britton. Quote, his divine life will again be reproduced. That's also like J. Preston Eby, another person deeply influenced by Jane Leade. So, here's my explanation of this, and it's a big mouthful, but here it goes.

This sort of pluralistic fragmentation of deity is a prevalent view that connects the esoteric world under the influence of Alice Beatty, with the Jane Leade inspired so-called Christian branch the converging apostasy as seen in the letter rain and after. It also allows the angelic components of an aggregate god to be controlled, manipulate it, and channeled. So, in other words, if you can take God Almighty, and this is, you know, blasphemous to say it, but if you can take him and break him into these little pieces, well, it's not quite so dominant and imposing upon you, and his

will doesn't matter as much because you can just take those angelic components and channel them, or speak to them, and what not. And so, this is why Jane Leade- and Bill Brunn, talk about heaven, which is coming down the earth, as would Rick joiner, the Norah prophet. Heaven to them is really not a place or a state of being. It's more of these broken up individual parts of what the esoteric world used to call the great chain of being, and that could come from neo-placism.

Several other places, but when you take God and attempt to break them up like this, again, he's not so imposing. You can do with him as you wish, and esoteric world, and the chain lead influence, manifest sons of God, let it rain, world, like it that way. Okay, so here's Bill Brunn sounding much like the analistic valentinesis teachings on the so-called bridal chamber, meaning the location, metaphorically speaking, where this divine interaction occurs and where you become essentially like Jesus to the extent that you also are divine.

So Brunn said that, quote, after the sons of God finished His work, they finished His work, quote, they will go into the bridal tent where there will be a union in him that we have never known before. Okay, this is interesting to me because even from some of the scholars I've read and their analysis of Jane Leeds teachings, they constantly refer back to one of the central ideas or central writings attributed to Jane Leed, which is the 60 propositions, and it doesn't really go into this kind of stuff. But I happen to have read, I

kind of lost count, but quite a few of Jane Leeds original prophetic teachings and you know, analyze what was going on and the different ideas. And so I can say this, for Britain making a statement, lead says, in like fashion, that when no, imagine this is being Christian, it's just no way. But Jane Leeds said when when pure spirits or spirits of light, she calls them, descend into bodily vehicles of chosen vessels, there will be, quote, a union that we can just hint at, then mortality will be swallowed up in immortality. Wow, that's like Britain directly got that from her. He didn't, he didn't really get it from the

60 propositions because that's not quite so explicit. And then Bill Britain, like the Nar Prophet Rick joiners said, and excuse me, like Bill Britain and Rick joiner. Leed said that the elite will bring heaven down to earth. So there's lead, Jane Leed in the 17th century, saying something that Britain, Rick Joyner, others have picked up Bill Hammett, has his own take on this similar stuff. So similar to the Nahr, Leed said, one, the power and dominion to reign on earth is in his saints to they will overtop the kingdoms of earth. And three, all shall be

forced to acknowledge that they are the anointed ones. Wow, I can't wait to turn this up huge on because I want to hear what you have to say about this. Likewise, Britain said, connect these thoughts if you're listening, and I know when your listeners are listening, they can push pause and say, wait a minute, isn't that what Britain said? That was Alistair Crowley said. So likewise, Britain said, it's time now to take the kingdom. That means take dominion politically. We might have seen some of that happening nowadays with the Nahr and certain factions over our

political world. And two, all authority that once belonged only to the invisible God is now available to mankind. Now Britain was writing that somewhat after the the initial lettering, we better say, like, I forgot, but that would have been probably late 50s, early 60s when he wrote that, and he will see, as you know, things like that turning up with Jim Jones and William Brandon. You know, you mentioned how much I like science fiction, which is absolutely true. I got on on every episode, I've got, I don't know if you can see it, but the Millennium Falcon

is behind me on the wall here. I love science fiction. I absolutely love it. And I love, I love going into the realms of the unknown, like X files. I don't know if you remember the show X files from the 90s. Yeah. We, we weren't allowed to have a TV during that portion of my life because we're in a, in a cult that tried to suppress the outside world. But after, after I got married, we, we got one and we, you know, I watched all the X files. Well, what they have in these types of religion are building blocks, not,

not even bad theology, just pure fiction, building blocks of fiction. And they talk in circles. You mentioned the, you mentioned science, right? And the way this works, in fact, I just had this conversation. I want to say it was three days ago with a person who escaped the NAR. What they do, they talk in circles, but they talk in circles in such a way that they'll give you point A. And to believe point B, you have to believe point A, point A being fiction. And then point, point A might be You know, something that's in the science that's not even related to the religion and then you've got point C, but to believe point A, you have to then believe point C.

So you've gone on a complete circle. And a pure plain and simple example of this. And again, had this conversation just two, three days ago, they love to use science. They will tell you that science completely confirms whatever is their weird, fantastical revelation.

Science confirms it. And go look at the science. And so people get their brain wrapped around that and they think, okay, science is confirmed. This must be our profit. And then they'll bring in another element and they'll say, no science doesn't believe this, but we as the elite royal seat of Abraham, we know that this is true regardless of what the science says.

So then the people are thinking, oh, I'm the royal seat of Abraham. I can't trust the science. And then it goes in the circle, right? Well, you have to believe the first point because of science.

You can't believe the second point because of science and welcome to the loop. You can argue endlessly with these people. And that's what they've done. They have taken its elements of fantasy, but if you really think about where it came from, this is purely evil what they've done.

They've taken things from the esoteric world, the satanic world, the gnostic world, all of these different things that are anti-Christian. Not just pseudo-Christian or extra-biblical, many of them are anti-Christian. And they'll say, you must believe this element that is anti-Christian.

And we have to believe it because we're the royal seat of Abraham. And science will try to tell you that this anti-Christian thing is false, but we know better because we're the royal seat of Abraham.

And then welcome to the loop. Your mind gets in this weird thing. You mentioned Dr. Stephen Hassan. This is one of the points that he actually explains really, really well in his book, Combatting Cult Mind Control.

If they can take a subject matter, that your mind is wrestling with itself. Part of it is completely false and you know it is false, but you have to believe it is true. While another part is true and contradicting the first part, will your mind place tug of war with it.

And if they can get you to suppress critical thought and focus in on the conflict, they will talk in circles purposefully because once they do this, they can hijack your mind. And it's part of the whole brainwashing scheme.

I don't know if you watched it or not, but there's this video out there of things David knows Mike Bickle. Mike Bickle is talking about how the end of days is going to play out and what is the mark of the beast.

And this lady asked him a question and he answers it. And then she thinks about it and realizes, wait a minute, that answer doesn't make sense. So she asks her a different way. He says the opposite thing.

Wait a minute, that's not what you said the first. And then it goes into this weird circle, right? And they are smiling, but in his eyes, you can see he's angry, shut up woman.

I don't want to hear from you. Yeah. And that's how this works. If you can hijack their mind by making the mind play these mental gymnastics. And that is exactly what they're doing when they bring in all of this anti-biblical nonsense.

The word that I've heard a lot of people use for that. And I'm sure you understand this is cognitive dissonance. And it seems like once I left the group that I was in and being a musician, I called it cognitive dissonance.

You know, like everything they're saying to you is analogous to very creepy sounding music that seems out of tune with anything that you normally think of as good music. So yeah, and you know the group I was in was really devoted to the teachings of the word teachings and the positive confession teachings like Kenneth Hagen, Kenneth Copeland.

And so when I was in my group, the way we, part of the way we tackled this issue of the mind is we said, you know, the mind is the devil's playground. So you have to shut off the mind and get in the spirit.

Okay, that sounds kind of vague. How do you get in the spirit? Well, one, you basically chant, and this is probably a little bit controversial with some of your listeners. But I'm quite convinced that what we did was a learned process that was called speaking in tongues.

And so if you do a repetitious speaking of syllables that, you know, to the rational mind have no meaning, essentially you're chanting and kind of zoning out which is what most of us would do.

And so if you do this prior to the preaching for say like 30 minutes and singing songs that are related to this, and quote, sing in the spirit with unidentifiable syllables like I'm describing, then you're just like a sitting duck mentally speaking and critically thinking speaking to whatever they want to posture way.

And then like you said, it's a circle. When you said that, oddly enough, I was thinking of meet the parents and the circle of trust. Did you ever see that movie? So you're either in or out of that circle, I'm not really sure which one.

I would prefer not to be in that circle if that's the way it works. So the last category I have here, and again, is relating Britain, Bill Britton, he's a latering prophet, clearly, clearly influenced by James Lee. If you want to see the documentation of that, it's all very thoroughly handled in my book, the converging apostasy. So Bill Britton says something that is very similar to the nor prophet Mike Bechel, previously mentioned. So Britton said, great destruction is coming upon the world in which from 50 to 100 million civilians will die within minutes after it begins. For the

wicked shall be judged and taken away while the righteous shall inherit the earth. So in the earlier days and manifest sons of God, he should say, taken. Or what does that mean? You know, once you'll be taken the other left, clearly from Scripture, but for them, taken means to be done away with, physically killed. And once you see that the agency that killing is through, and in theory, as they say, the corporate body of Christ, the elite members of the church, then you see 1 plus 1 equals 2, these people are going to die. Who's going to be the one who delivers the hand of death? Well,

that's the sons of God because they've been given this great responsibility to clean the earth and cleanse the world. So like I said, who does this? Britton says the manifestation of the sons of God will destroy his enemies. So destroy it in a little bit of like, no, not really when you read that in context of his other teachings. It's just a little way to skip hop and jump away from clearly stating, we're going to get a gun and shoot you. Some of them, well, you know, like Wesley Swift will make that a little bit more clear. And also, maybe a lot of people are not aware,

but John Robert Stevens and some of his elders in the walk, which was clearly influenced by William Brandham and the Feast of Tabernacles by George Orner. He said, and I got this from a guy who interviewed him, Mr. Nichols, again, Woodrow Nichols, who's written about the walk very well.

Mr. Nichols told me that some of the elders of the walk, and that means John Robert Stevens truly was aware of this. Some of those elders said, quote, or paraphrase, excuse me,

we're going to finish the job that Hitler didn't. And that's why we're stockpiling some guns to get prepared for this. If you fast forward to nowadays, where people like, say, Rick Drawerner and Cindy.

Jacobs, our prophets, were in Bill Hammond. When they talk about the upcoming Civil War, when some unmentionable person says it will be a bloodbath if he's not elected, well, it's kind of reshaped, remolded, but that same concept of a sacred purge, of a cleansing of the earth is present, just in a slightly repackaged, somewhat euphemized way of saying it. So here's what I have to say about Britain in that regard. Similar to the Nar Prof already said that, and then like Nar Profits in general, Britain said that every enemy shall be put under the feet of the body of Christ, that can mean a lot of things, but again, if you take

into the context of their teachings, it doesn't mean, oh, well put you in your place and you'll pay attention that we are godly people speaking of truth. No, it's a little bit more explicit than a lot more explicit actually. So what Britain says, the sense of God or his great army which goes forth conquering until the church is purified and perfected in the whole earth as cleanse.

If you go over it to Royal Crown, Christ, another Jane Lee Influence Prophet, you also will see this kind of concept that the earth will be purified, purified, and that means that lots of people will die. Okay, here's like the Prophet Bill Hammond. Britain, Bill Britain said, that when the elect have died out to self what a common phrase, they will be able to properly and righteously be used by God in the judgment of this present age. Therefore, the wrath of God is the love of God. So I guess you read 1984 and we might hear similar kind of comments.

Okay, so just to wrap up my notes here, this is again in the conversion apostasy my boat. You'll see a little bit more if you have doubts that, no, no, he probably didn't really mean that. You'll see that yes he did and you'll see the people that were influenced by Jane Lee constantly were saying similar things that she said. So Becky Britain's daughter said, now I really appreciate what she said here. It's wise. She said the idea of killing others would be horrible. Why did she say that?

Because I gently and diplomatically pointed out that her dad believed this and all those other prophets that he hung out with and had fellowship with also believe this. Then she said, you would have to be like a, quote, dictator to do such things.

People poop propose such things or quote Motivated by ego and just want to be in charge. Yeah, Becky Britain Speak preach tell it like it is so unfortunately for her and You know, I put her on my prayer list constantly because I mean she just like you John being raised and brought up in In the message she was raised and brought up with her dad in the ministry of one of the Uh, it's hard to find an adjective. It just one of the most wicked forms of teachings that's still infecting the the world and the church

through its Children doctrinal children that you find in the narr It is wicked and she is absolutely right I was thinking as you were talking and it's no laughing matter It's just it's comical to me because of the frame of mind that you have to be in to come up with this stuff, right I was thinking I am a fan of science fiction don't get me wrong But I'm a fan of the good guys in the science fiction And when you think about what they've done what they're doing and more to the point what they're saying

These are the things that you would hear in a science fiction or fantasy book or movie But you would hear it from the bad side not the good side And yeah, and in fact I could I'll try to come up with some if I can but I've come up with movies as you're talking glimpses of them in my mind of the villain their evil face saying very much the same kind of things right They they want this attention. They want they're narcissistic. That's that's how The villain is portrayed But what the the part that made me laugh is this

The good science fiction movies have a lot more depth to them and they cause you to think But these guys once they hijack your mind they don't need the same depth and so It's almost like they're preaching from a fantasy world that instead they get from a comic book and The reason why I was laughing is if you go back to some of the early ladder rain like in the very very early Side of things what was being said often mimicked what you saw in a comic book It was so low level that in today's world people would hear things like

One of the opening sermons William Branham in 1947. He's he's got a Some kind of bracelet on a string and he says look if you mind Thanks hard enough you can make this to move I have I have actually seen this in a comic book man This is this is stuff for comic books. It's not stuff for religion But you're getting sleepy It's just, it's so absurd.

And then when you walk away from it, I'm an intelligent man. And to think that I still, I was age 37. And I still believe that the person's mind could literally move the string.

And once I left, I'm like, you know, that's just a simple bar trick. I have, I think I've seen kids do it in school whenever I was, you know, you just move your hand a little better, your elbow and the thing moves.

Well, he's using parlor tricks and worse. I mean, it's like a comic book religion, which is, to me, it's kind of funny, but if you think of the eternal consequences of this, it is not funny at all.

Because what these men are teaching you is not Christianity. And there's no greater evil. So yes, I feel sorry for her as well. I, you know, I wasn't involved at the same level she was, but my grandfather was probably the closest thing to cult royalty that existed after William Branham's death.

He led Branham's Tabernacle for 50 years. So I fully understand where she's coming from. It is, it is horrific. But anyway, this is fascinating stuff. I could talk about this for the next five hours.

So let's break it off and let's pick up next time with some more crazy, interesting, fascinating, comic bookish, religion-ish kind of stuff that people today have developed into the NAR. If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at www.William-Branham.org. For more information about the dark side of Latter-Rain, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Cologneia Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. For more about the converging apostasy, you can read the book, The Converging Apostasy.

You can also read the book, A Quick Outline of Hands-On Eschatology, A Matter of Timing and Agency. You can find us at www.William-Branham.org.

You can find us at www.William-Branham.org.