Our Stories - An Interview With Joshua Ahianyo

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org. And today I have my very special guest, Joshua Ahiano, former message believer and pastor of Eternal Life Assembly in Ghana.

Joshua, it's so good to have you on here today to talk about your journey in and out of the message. We've spoken for a few times over Facebook, you know, getting connected and wanted to share your story and finally today we get a chance to make it happen.

So I thought it would be good if you just took a moment and tell the listeners a little bit about yourself. Glad to be speaking with you, John Collins. We really appreciate what you are doing, opening the eyes of people.

And I would say that you've spent much time reviews and we don't take it lightly because there are some workers who are always waiting for their next podcast to comfort say that we actually see what is going on in them.

We've learned a lot, very shocking things. So as you said earlier, I'm Joshua Ahiano, the pastor of Eternal Life Assembly, that's in California, Oyuko, Ghana. I was a former message believer. I came into the message somewhere in 2001 and I left somewhere in 2019, 2020.

Eternal Life Assembly was started officially, that's in November, 2020. So I would say my journey has been, it hasn't been a smooth one, as you know, where the record coming off is very, very, very difficult.

But I would say I didn't have too much entanglement in terms of being a minister in their message and other stuff. So when I came for me to leave, though it was a bit difficult, I had to make the ultimate decision.

And as I understand it, there are several different sects or splinter groups of the message in Ghana from different various influences from the United States and abroad. Could you tell us a little bit about what the message is like in Ghana?

MESSAGE is almost the same as you know in almost every country. The MESSAGE seems to have a similar period all over with the same level of confusion. You know, a lot of splinter proofs.

You hardly find two churches agreeing on the same topic. It has always been one fight to the other confusion everywhere. But you know, I actually was in a group which I would say is not too much of an extremist group.

I belonged to the Jackson group because I actually fellowshiped with Bible-Believer's fellowship. That was my entry into the MESSAGE. You know, Bible-Believer's fellowship has been passed by Pastor John 20. He seems to be one of the originators of the MESSAGE in Ghana.

So, we belonged to the Jackson group and we followed the contenders. We also had other materials coming in from Pastor Eward Frank of Germany. We also had a little influence from Richard Gump of Singapore, the late Richard Gump.

Just as you know the MESSAGE in USA and any part of the world, it is the same confusion. The same trouble, the same spirit ruling all of them. Yes, I can remember growing up and going into a city and no two churches would fellowship with one another. In fact, there were times where I did not realize that there were actually other MESSAGE churches in the same city and then we went to some of the smaller cities and the churches there didn't know they were supposed to fight with each other. So, sometimes they would, but in the larger cities, of course, they really don't get along because of these divisions.

They'll take some doctrine and that's their line in the sand. And the doctrine really is more important in the fellowship or even, unfortunately, even more important in Christianity in some cases. So, you were getting all of this influence from other places and I'm certain the doctrines were a bit unique. How would you say that the doctrines are compared to other Christian or pseudo-Christian sects in Ghana?

We heard some beliefs. When you find a message, you are made to believe that you are in a kind of an elite group where you are a wise region. And the other guys, you know, coded, cals Recht color妳緊密inde妳緊密覺醒著 妳緊密覺醒著完全 1960你們 妳緊密覺醒著完全 1960大家 妳緊密覺醒著оры寶機還不知 妳緊密覺醒著裂下卑鄬 just like the subdivisions, the Justin's group believed that other groups were not enlightened us, and so we are more special than the other groups.

And I remember we were told, we used to be told that in the whole of, you know, after leaving BBF, that is tema. I, because of school, I came to go for a idea where I don't miss out now, and I happened to join another message group called Wed of Life. They were, I will say, they are quite mad because they are more scripture oriented, and they also believed that in the whole of the world, God chose West Africa, chose Ghana, chose East England and chose school for India. So it is believed that we were better than all the other

message churches, and even other Christian groups, and that pasta was the most enlightened when it came to the message of salvation. And so we saw ourselves above everyone, even above other message churches, we, we even felt other message churches were supposed to come and learn from us. I know this church also was also from Jackson, that is with to the line of Ramon Jackson, and do there were other Jackson churches around.

We still believe we had an edge over, over them. So it is the same spirit. We are better than everyone. The other Christian groups don't know the Bible as they are supposed to. We are more regulated. We are the bride. We are the ones that are rapture. One are rapture, because we are the ones who be going.

It's just so odd. I grew up, you know, in cities from Arizona to South Carolina and between, and immediately before moving to Jeffersonville, we went to very small, to a very small church in small towns. And I did not know any of this really existed because of my upbringing in the smaller churches. Then we come to Jeffersonville, and although it wasn't Jackson's that I was in, we were in the Brannum Tabernacle, and almost clearly right down the middle of the church. You had the people on one side that they would follow the prophet's son, and his flavor

the message was the only way, and then on the other side were the ones who followed my grandfather, and they looked at each other as though they were two different bodies of people. And I was so confused that, you know, I got to the church and what is this weird division?

And they would exit the doors on either side. Well, I'm a person who doesn't like division, so sometimes I sit on the left, sometimes I sit on the right, and I would exit and talk with these people, and, you know, they would never openly say it, but there was always this weird separation, and the ones who were the elite prophets on group, they would meet in their small communities, and, you know, I tried to visit whoever I could, but that is so odd when you think about just joining church. You join church to build a community, to be with other Christians,

talking about Christ, not to be talking about which guy has the better doctrine, you know what I mean? What would you say is the thing that brought you into this, because I'm certain for a Christian who wasn't raised in this, or a person who came to Christ not being raised in this, there had to been some strange appeal to join the elite group. What made you decide to join?

Okay, so my background, I came from the church of Christ, if you've had a problem, his association is group, and my stepmom did have best to take me to church. I also involved,

they even wanted to send me to kind of a bible school to become a preacher, but when I was 14 years, my dad, you know, he was already involved with a message, so he actually had to drag me to church, you know, he forced me, that from henceforth, I'll have to start worshipping which many see, you are in a house where they have two extreme views, the entire message believes in their prophets, church of Christ does not believe in their prophets and prophets and all those stuff, so church of Christ actually had their own theory about the message, there was a belief that

in their message we worship an eagle, you know, they told us a lot of stories, so I promised them I would definitely come back because I saw the impact it was presented to me as a court, so when I sat at fellowshiping with a message, that is bbf, you know, it wasn't too long then I had my conversion into Christ on the road, now I must say this and I always let people know that my conversion into Christ was not through their message, I got converted on the road, I had this conversation and I became more serious with Christ

and I became more serious with my Bible. I had so much experiences and I began to have certain encounters but because the message church was what was available to me then you know I became more serious with air and time message I followed it all my heart because somebody came into Christ you know you can just understand the first time your first love you are so jealous you want to move the whole world for Christ so I felt the message was the truth you know so even once I was on campus this was a short while before

I went to senior high school so when I got to senior high school I was so jealous I joined other groups on campus which were not message related there's a group on campus called Pentecost Student Analysis which belonged to one of the largest denominations in Canada it's the Church of Pentecost I was a prayer secretary I also joined the scripture union which is a spiritual group that's a Christian spiritual group I was born in almost senior high school I became a Bible student coordinator I see so I was judicious to follow the Bible you know and there were times people came to campus to come and preach

there was a gentleman I believe who was in that message who came to teach us on set and sit and I reparted it but I didn't accept it because at that time I had not heard that teaching in that message because you know I was often at school you know but later when I got to know that is what William Brown stood for I began to invite those doctrines so I would say I came into the message from a citizenist background two extreme groups I got converted whilst I was in that message not by that message

and then I took it out from there that must have been difficult as a family unit your mother being in one church that looks down or looks differently at the message believers and then the message believers that look down on the other church what were the family dynamics like in the home how did that affect your family life okay they were able to manage you know my dad did a great job in order not to allow this coalition to affect their house and you know definitely you know each camp would want you to be by the outside

my mom told it when I started eternal life assembly she wanted me to convert it to church of Christ Because I began to pick, I began to throw a lot of doctrines away. You know, it's not a message.

So there were certain doctrines that I threw away, which actually church of Christ believe, for example, or the subject of Titan. The message had a way to preach it. Church of Christ had a way to preach it.

In my attempt to different Titan, I ended up with a system that looks like what a church of Christ believe, and it's not composed to give 10 percent, you know, to... But I went on a study.

I wanted to different Titan, only to come again Titan. So she wanted me to actually come back, you know, converted to church of Christ. You know, so they were able to manage, and they were able to manage anyway, at home.

I remember the first time, after leaving the message that I got to thinking through the tithes, and it suddenly struck me that in a church of, you know, what is it, sometimes 500 people, every tenth person makes a salary, and they give it to the pastor, and the pastors make a heck of a lot of money.

And so I went from that background, and then our first church, when I walked in the door, they actually handed me this paper, and the paper had, here's what the pastor makes, and I looked at this, I'm, you know, I'm not that old, and this guy makes less than I make.

I mean, he doesn't not make much money, and then here's a list of all the expenses that the church has, and so they're very open about the money, and I'm expecting, you know, I sit down, I'm expecting them to pass the baskets, and say give 10% or whatever, and they actually had a sermon not long after I began, where they were talking about, the Apostle Paul said, cheerful giving, and it isn't that it's a mandate that you make every pastor rich, and he explained what his, he actually openly talked about what his salary was, and I was still shocked, like this,

it's not enough money even to live on, how does this guy live, right? And that was the difference between that and the message, so I can imagine, you know, you're throwing that out, that for a person who was brought up like that, that's a significant change, right?

What were, what would you say, you mentioned the doctrine of tithing and a few other doctrines, what would you say, Serpent Seed, what would you say is the most heretical doctrine, now that you've left the message, what would you say was the biggest heresy that you believed while you were in the message?

Okay, so I would say there are a lot of heresy, that's a principle, I can't just imagine how we believed such a doctrine. How so, I, we believe that William Braham was Revelation 10.7, and he was Malachi 4.5, and that he was a prophet of the E.

H. And he was there. So many doctrines that if you want to look critically at the scriptures, you cannot find the roots. You know, Godhead is another subject that is difficult for two churches to believe the same thing.

You also find doctrines on marriage and divorce where a woman can be divorced based on the part that she has cut her hair. And I was there. If we want to start going into the doctrines, you realize that apart, I was there, we were scammed.

That's what I was actually saying. A whole lot of scripture doctrines that we held on to. You know, we were two that in Africa, you know, when the woman put on earring, it's a sign of idolatry or the asleeps.

And when I got up, I was about to get out of their message. I had to do a whole study on the subject of earring. And I realized we were believing things based on some stories.

So there are a whole lot of doctrines that we cannot, we cannot marry with the scriptures if I would put it that way. You have came a long way if you can, if you can say that this was a scam.

It actually took me several years to be able to say that word. And it actually took me a long time before I could say cult. And then once I said cult, I thought, okay, well this, maybe this was a good thing and then it just turned bad.

And then it was years before I came to the conclusion, no, this was a scam. Pure plain and simple. It was a scam. You know, of all of the many things that hit me in the face, what in the world were we thinking?

I got to reading Ezekiel 16 and it's talking about Jerusalem as God's faithless fallen bride. And it says, you are the king of the harlot, and all of the Sodomites are your sisters and sisters the harlots, right?

And it says, God adorns you in the way that God saw you beautiful. And it says he put on earings. So here is God who likes earrings. And then here's the message who says, no, you can't wear earrings.

Well, which am I to believe, right? The one from coming directly from God or the one coming from this man who had no clue what was in the Bible, right? So there's so many things, you know.

The serpent's seed. I am really interested about this. And when we come through with the earrings, I read a scripture in Exodus where God actually asked them to go and borrow Jewery. When they were living Egypt, they were to go and borrow Jewery.

And I remember in one of the scriptures when they were receiving items, musis wa sucivin items, to build a tabanakalogor, one thing the united was earrings, and I was surprised, why would God take an element which has to do with idolatry to build tabanakor?

I was surprised, and I found another where Abraham, you know, when he was to go and marry for Isaac, one of the things that sent wear earrings for Rebecca. We also, manuscript, and you, when you, after he had gone through that trial hub, one of the things that he was giving, was presented, was earring, and God didn't say anything, and the scripture we normally use for the slavery stuff. When I read, I realized that the Bible didn't mention earring.

He said, you just pierce the persons ear with an owl, and that was it. There's no mention of earring there, because the Israelites were already wearing earring, and just as we could, it was chapter 16. We were quoting Isaiah chapter 32, to justify, but I realized that there were other elements that were mentioned there, that if we want to throw the horse in our way, then we would have to. Also, women would have to stop using the mirror, they would have to be bald on the forehead, they would have to stop using a whole lot of stuff. But it hits me that we actually just

picked one or two and we built a doctrine on it. So that's something I can say on the subject of the earring. You know, it's so funny, because we can talk for the next five hours on all of these little doctrines that just are complete nonsense. They really came out of this guy's head or somebody that he learned it from, not biblical at all, and they read one little section of the Bible, didn't understand it, and then created a whole doctrine on top of this thing they didn't even understand. And I went through a series of these because whenever I learned that the

sermon marriage and divorce was so awfully insulting to women, whenever I understood that, when I woke up enough to read it for what it said, and realized that this man is being a complete bigot towards women, you know, misogynist, I was upset. I was like, how did I let this man say this thing to my wife, right? As a man, I should have stood up in the church and said, no, I will not let you speak this way to my wife, but I did it. I sat there, I was brainwashed, I believe this stuff. And I got to thinking about all of the other things that the women had it

much more difficult than the men. They had so many different rules. And I went through each of them, and almost every single one of them, I could find where it was totally taken out of context.

And like you, you mentioned, well, how did they have earrings? If They melted it down to make the temple. And why did they use it for the temple? Well, I studied the old Jewish customs and one of the things that surprised me was that during the times of mourning, if somebody you loved died or something really bad happened, the women, which the Bible was talking about the shorn hair, which means shearing, and the women would actually shear their hair off to mourn.

So if they can shave their head from mourning, then how can we say that not shaving by shaving their head, God won't even hear their prayer? Whenever the God was allowing them to do this from mourning, but we were taught they weren't even, the prayers aren't even heard because their hair's cut.

And it's just complete nonsense, you know? The serpent seed doctrine, I'm fascinated with this, because if you've studied, if you watched any of our research where this came from, this was not from a good group of people.

I'll just say it like that. Did they teach you the racial component of serpent seed, like were you aware that it had to do with color of skin? Initially, I wasn't aware. It was later, you know, looking at the podcast that you have it transparently.

That opened our eyes to the racial component of the serpent seed. You know, we are in Africa. So of course, they wouldn't want to teach us to make us look inferior. You know, they just made us understand that we had two groups of people, one, which are the predestinated seed.

And so they were chosen in Christ. And because we belong to the Jackson group, they spoke about dominant and recessive, you know? Depending on how much serpent seed you have in you, you know?

So if you have much serpent seed, it means that yours is dominant and therefore you are lost. If you have less, it means that you can be safe. So they didn't teach more of the racial component to us.

But there were so many things that they taught ever. Later, when I began to study the serpent seed, I saw it as a complete, it asked me to do the word nonsense. It was definitely nonsense.

I don't know if it came out yet or not. It probably will by the time this airs. But I interviewed one lady and she said, you know, I was told the serpent seed thing my whole life.

And after I left the message, immediately right before I left the message, I was reading the book of Genesis. And suddenly I read and then Adam knew his wife. Or Adam knew his wife and you know, she'd be got cane.

And she said, it just hit me like a brick wall. We've been told all of these false things. And we have to actually read the text differently than it says to believe it. And she said, I woke up at that point because, well, why do I have to believe it differently?

Why can't I just believe what the text says in the Bible? It is in the Bible. And it was that way. We, you know, I could go off into many stories of how differently people with black skin are treated, even in the United States.

But I too grew up, I had no idea that this was a racially charged doctrine. You know, John, I looked at the serpent seed and we were told that the reason Cain disobeyed God was because Cain was a seal of the serpent.

Then I asked a simple question, if Cain disobeyed God because he was a serpent seed, then how come if also disobeyed God? She would have to be a serpent seed in order to be able to disobey God.

So I asked them to, because they disobeyed God. Then I asked another question, Genesis chapter 4, verse 1, as you wish, the Bible was clear, it was after they got out of Eden. That is when Adam knew his wife and they gave back to Cain and Abel.

And you also asked if the serpent was cursed and all of a sudden he joined the reptile family. And it means that the serpent would have to be a reptile. Now I don't know, but I've done a little bit of science, not to advance.

I know even among mamas, it is difficult for mamas to cross themselves. You know, I don't think a cat and a mouse can even cross each adult to have an offspring. Sheep and good, sometimes it's quite difficult.

We know horses and donkeys too. So a long jump between a reptile and a mamma, that is a long jump, a one-blooded animal and a cold-blooded animal, then we should be expecting Cain to be kind of like, I don't know how to, but it should kind of be having some kind of snakehead or something.

You know, it's so weird, you know, it's so weird. So we establish a doctrine based on assumption. And I got to know that Iranians actually put against the serpent seed, you know, because Valentinos, if I got a name right, he was an elastic who began to project that doctrine.

And if the end-time message believes that Iranians was a church messenger, and he spoke against the serpent seed. Now, if let's see, you will. at to tell a history of a place you know if we put my great grandfather and my father my my great grandfather should have a better information about the history of a place than my father. So if we are to take ironios and William Braham, ironios was closer to John because ironios polycap sorry John polycap than ironios. So if somebody should after I refute a serpentsy doctrine and it's credible then if they believe that ironios

was a second change in messenger then would have to listen to ironios more. So the whole thing is a jumble a jumble of errors you you take all the lines that they put across in terms of the serpentsy doctrine and everything seems to be kicking against it. Every sculpture seems to be fighting against it. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transition through the latter reign charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brandham Historical Research's website William-Brandham.org. On the book's page of the website

you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Steven Montgomery, John McKinnon and others with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top and as always be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Brandham Historical Research we want to thank you for your support. Another brick wall that hit me in the face was learning,

you know, William Brandham taught the church ages and he appointed different people that he randomly just chose for no good reason. Some of these people weren't even alive during their church age but he chose Irenaeus as the first one and learning that Irenaeus condemned a large part of William Brandham's theology as the very first Christian apologist.

It hit me like a brick wall. William Brandham pretended that he read the works of Irenaeus and he said he studied it but did he really read it because he's doing every single thing that Irenaeus condemns right down to the usage of numbers as spiritual signs, right? William Brandham did the same kind of thing. So you so you weren't in the message, you grew up in a family that was a bit divided over the message but still functioned as a family unit which is really good for you. That's not always the case and you were led into the

What would you say would be the thing that your turning point when you decided to leave the message? John, I don't know whether you've been scammed before. Maybe somebody decided to scammed, I don't know whether it has happened to you before.

You know, when a scammer brings or a fraudster brings a story, it is so good to be true. You may believe it to a point, but within there is an element of doubts, a little element that actually seems to tell you that the story is not true.

So when I got into the message because of the foundation I had in Christ, I used to pray to God a lot to let me know whether the message was true or was false.

It was my prayer, I prayed this prayer and I got to know about the splinter groups, the seven tunders and the non-tunders and all those stuff. I was like, it will believe in the gift of prophecy.

Why don't you call all the prophets together, then we should go into prayer and ask God, God, are the seven tunders reviewed or not? So it was something I, so guess I saw, you know, I believe the message with all my heart and I was ready to propagate it.

Have you been in that system for a long time? Then one day I had a dream and I saw a scripture in that dream, that's Luke 117. A poplars chapter that is normally used by the message believers and nothing more was said.

I hoped to see William Brown in my dreams, but it was very scarce. I saw him in my dream one day and it was like we were to wait at the place for something before the output and I believe your other side of the message may have heard about it.

So we were to wait at the spot and William Brown had access to wait in that dream. But we waited and waited and waited and the output in the vacuum, so we began to leave.

So I felt, you know, whilst in that message people may be discouraged and begin to leave. Then, you know, because I'm going to IT. I began following this website, believe their sign. You know, they were promised.

So whenever I did that output, I would believe their sign is website and gets my code. Then one day I went to their website and they published an article, I think the humble pie.

And they started talking about the visions of William Brown. I felt like they need to be taught more properly, I felt they need to have a better revelation and all those things could be explained.

They were talking about the imagine not the line and all those things. That it is part bridge vision and so forth. So I went there reading and I felt they needed to be kind of screwed to be taught what they were projecting if they need to come back.

So I believe the sign didn't stop. The more I wanted to go and find out to actually oppose what they were saying, the more I realized that they were raising very key points. Okay, so I kept following what they were saying.

I didn't leave the message. I found a logical way to explain things away. But you know what they used to call you putting it on their shelf. But at the point in time, their shelf became so heavy that you realize the argument that I couldn't actually kind of throw away their arguments.

What do I say? You know, they were putting from the Prophet's books and that kind of research. So at the point in time, I think a group also came. Actually, I don't know whether it was a group, the searching for medication.

Actually, coming to, I said to oppose, believe the sign initially, then I went out searching for medication, dealing with it, getting the Prophet's ridicule that they joined. Then another, I think another person decided to go and do a study on that municipal bridge vision.

When it came, the person also joined us. It was building up then. I began to have problems with some of the doctrines that were being preached and setting character of the end time. When I became a Christian fresh, when I got converted, I believed everyone in the message was a saint.

But when I come to church, I see everybody as a saint because we are an elite group. Then I heard a group and saw that they were all manner of characters within the church, unbelievable characters, things we don't believe.

Not long, we were faced with a split. The church I was in had to split. And I saw so many horrible things, which actually came to pass. So gradually, I began to re-look at doctrines of William Graham, their vindications, because what makes William Graham I got to know that the cloud was false.

It was a tour rocket explosion. I got to know that the pillar of fire by his head was also another false stuff. And I was looking for prophecies of William Braham, which he made before that time.

That actually came to pass. And it was amazing that I wasn't really finding many. And you know coming across James Manuel. You know James Manuel is on Facebook. He sat on in the flesh of anybody who has a message believe I want to follow his side.

You can't challenge what is putting across. You can't also take it. So you are in a kind of fix. So gradually I started accepting. I remember I went to my pastor one day. And you know he wasn't that type.

I mean my previous pastor who projected much of the entire message. So I told him of their cloud. You know about their findings. But I don't think he took it too seriously. Then issues came and I think somewhere 2020.

When we started it and I left by then. I had to resolve that. And starting this ministry. I'm not going to start it as an entire message. Then I came across Charles Pesley. Pastor Charles Pesley.

I know somebody coming from the remote Jackson group. And being the former editor of the content that was actually a big. A big kind of like a big story. I used to follow up the shelf.

You know the podcast by Rod Baggins. And former pastes. You know I listened to a former pastes. The stories. There's one who publishes an article called a Morning Dew. I also saw one on free.

Sorry on YouTube. I forgot his name. You know he has been in the message for about 40 years. And pastor I love so much. You also use that on Facebook. He posts the message.

He will post the Bible. Then he left the message. At that point people were leaving. And I was wondering what is happening. And it's like we weren't getting answers to the questions that were pushed.

They were either. You are either. They they attack the questions with an insult. nd they try to brush it away and their usual zombie response only believe. You know and voice of God recordings was also not helping because they were also not giving any reasonable response to.

that is that way coming up. So, when I came across Pasachal specifically, you know, talking about he living, about though I had left and had actually spoken with one or two people, it solidified my stand to finally say goodbye. I know, just as we started, at the point in time, it was difficult for me to actually see William Brown to be a scum. I was very careful because I still felt he was a prophet, but when I went through all the things one day in my room, I just said William Brown was a fraud. He says,

come for the first time. That was, I think, somewhere 2019 or 2020. I said, this man, I used to be careful because I still believe in his prophetic steps somehow. But looking at how he kind of led us, I was like, this man was a scum, and I was it. You know, like I said, it took me a long time before I could use that word. And I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I'll admit it.

I was, I was watching this movie one day, and I can't remember the guy's name, but anyway, this actor was portraying a scam artist. And he would go up to somebody and he would tell such an incredibly unbelievable story, but give so many details. And the way a scam artist works is if they can get your mind to focus on the details, rather than the entire subject matter, then your mind will focus on the details and he can scam you. And so this guy was really good at it. He was going down to towns, you know, different people. And he would do use

this technique. And then when he would leave, they would figure it out. No, my gosh, I just gave this guy all my money. Well, it suddenly hit me. All of these stories, you've mentioned many things right now that I'm sure that people who are in the audience who've never been in this will not understand. Like you mentioned, imagine a line that was William Brown, a prophecy of the imagino line or the cloud, which we believe were seven angels, all of these things, not a single one of them had anything to do with God, not one of them. But he's

giving all of these many details. And as we're thinking on the details, we're not thinking of the overall scam. It's a con. It's a it's a long con. He's basically building up and setting himself up for this. And when that hit me, and I realized that it was not just a con artist and a con, it was a long con, which means they have strategically done this over time, to the extent that they have convinced people, you know, for decades, building up to the climax of the con.

And then I studied the climax and realized, well, he's comparing himself to Jesus in every single instance of the climax, well, he's setting himself up to be Jesus. And that point, it suddenly struck me, this is a false Christ. So this is exactly what the Bible talks about, a false Christ. Yeah. So John, I think I just remembered something. I don't think that actually raised that question, even was I was in the message. I read Revelation chapter 10 by 7 and I decided to look at the exact words that were used. Say in that these are the voice of the seven angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery

of God shall finish. So I was like, when he shall begin to sound. Now, if William Brown was a seven angel, then when he began to sound, which was somewhere 1930, something the mystery of God should have been finished. And the mystery per our line of the message was that Gentiles should be fellow has. So I was like, if this is it, you know, there's a belief that it was in 1965 that William Brown got a major messages. So I was like, if this is it, then William Brown can't be there.

So I asked, I think I asked one of the leaders and they had their way to brush it off. Then I came to ask Mary, previous pastor, but he didn't convince me that much because when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished. The mystery of God didn't get finished.

When William Brown began to sound, and you know, the others also tried to reach so many meanings. It's a major to the songs in their mysteries, others in their mystery. So it was also another scripture that created a much doubt later, you know, in my mind. And when I was to leave their message, it was one of their points. I was like, angels were sounding when the read Rev. 8, the first, the second, the third, the fourth, the third, the sixth, angels sounded.

Then you come to Rev. 10, 7, then you come to Rev. 11, verse 15 also, we said, and the seventh, angels sounded. So it was another, I realized that there was too much desperate attempt to put William Brown in the scriptures. He didn't belong there. It doesn't belong to any scripture that was over there. And it's so, you know, looking back, I feel so stupid, believing this thing, but I remember when that hit me, I was studying that passage from Revelation. And I got to thinking about the seven angels. He claimed that this cloud that came down with seven angels and look

up in the sky. Can't you see this cloud looks like seven angels? Well, those Seven came down to meet me and then I heard him talk about meeting the seven angels. He says they came down, they gave him the revelation and he counts them off one by one.

And then he suddenly, you can audibly hear it in his voice. There's a problem because he claimed that he was the seventh angel. But yet seven angels came down which would make eight angels and you can hear audibly as he's preaching, it suddenly strikes him, strikes him, oh no, what have I done?

And then he says, and then that seventh angel, his chest was out like this and he was bragged up the seven angel and you can just audibly hear, he's got a severe logic problem here.

But the way he addressed it was, he still went to self-promotion by bragging on the seventh angel. And that's the point that I realize, okay, this is a con, this is a con artist, but he is a narcissistic con artist who thinks that he's got to be bigger, better, bolder.

Well, this has been incredibly fun and I'm certain our listeners would are going to be encouraged to see that you've came through all of this and came out on the other side doing very well for yourself, minister and you have your church.

Knowing now what you know and having studied the scriptures afterwards, what would you say to your former self while you were in this message to encourage yourself if you had had the opportunity to go back in time and do that? From my former self, I would say, it wasn't a good experience, but it was good. You know, if I hadn't gone through that experience, you know, now I am so much against anything that is courted, and it's actually because I spent a lot of time in a court.

So I would say it went together for good somehow to be able to move forward and focus on Jesus Christ. Now, when you want to present a man to me now as kind of like another block, you know, you go to John 3, 16, in the message rendering. This is how I feel the message rendered John 3, 16.

Therefore, God so loved the world that He gave us only begotten Son and William Abraham, that was whoever believes in them should not perish but have everlasting. That is actually to me, that's how the message renders it. So it has helped me to put away that middle man.

Anyone who tries to be a middle man between Jesus and us will claim or so I become blessed an anti court person who would you want to look up to? I respect ministers and so forth, but we don't have to put any single man in that equation.

It has to be Jesus and Jesus, because there's no name giving under heaven. Now, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 1 comes to mind where he says that in 100 times God was speaking to us by various ways and so forth through their prophet, but now it's not speaking to us through Jesus, right?

So, for my former self, I would say one, it was a lot of time wasting.

Perhaps we could have done something better, but I believe that it also houses now to be because I'm relatively young, to also know how to actually kind of pass this kind of people who come up that will focus on Jesus Christ alone. And whoever has left to me, I know you may have spent a lot of your lives in this kind of mess, but you see, it is good, God is restoring you now.

It is a good moment that God has, you know, if William Brahman actually envisaged the internet, if he had actually seen ahead, he would have mastered his craft better, but he never saw it coming.

The internet has actually exposed William Brahman a big time, and the ministers don't have answers, so it is good we are living in this age where we have come to see their friends. It was also help us to be more careful when we are dealing with people who claim to be something like Jim Jones and the gentleman in Kenya and all over the world who tried to put themselves as some kind of superheroes and to help us not to follow them, but to follow Jesus Christ alone. So, it is good, I want people to still follow their podcast. I know it is painful, sometimes you think about it

and it is kind of wired out with my time here, about 19 to 20 years of my life, you know, in this kind of movement, trapped in it, but you see, we would have to move forward because we move forward, we will try to forget that path and just move on towards the future.

Well, that is very good advice, and I thank you for sharing your story with us today. We give a lot of people a lot of encouragement. If you have enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web, you can find us at www.William-Branum.org.

For an overview of the historical research of William Branum and the healing revivals, read preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William Branum and his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.