Come Out of Her My People: Exposing the False Religion of William Branham

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me is my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, newly famous author.

And today, we're discussing Charles' new book, Come Out Of Her My People. Charles, it's so good to have you back, and everybody's been asking about you. I don't know if you have seen it in the comment feeds, but everybody's like, where's Charles?

Why did you get rid of Charles? And I didn't get rid of Charles. Charles has been working on this great thick book that I hold in my hand. John, it is a little exciting to finally be done with the first volume.

You're right. I have been, life is so busy, I generally can only manage so many projects at a single time. And so that's been one of my projects here as of late, but I'm really zeroing in on getting that first.

The first volume done, and the title, John, you know, where I come from in the message. If you said, what is the message? What is the message? A lot of us would say the message is, Come Out Of Her My People.

And so hence the title of the book, this is what we would have said the message is in a lot of the places I come from. I don't know, was it that way in your churches too, John?

Would you say the message is, Come Out Of Her My People? You know, I don't know. And some of them that I went to, the message was that God was tabernacled in human flesh and William Brannum.

But I think you were supposed to believe it was come out of her my people because Charles, that's how every cult starts. You start with this big arms wide open. Hey, join us. We can be fun.

We can be just as good as your church. And then once you get them sucked in, you say, Come Out Of Her My People. And then they sever ties with whatever church they were in.

And now you've got a new cult. Yeah. Yeah. I've really enjoyed writing the book. You know, we went through, I went through a lot of the stuff that we covered in our podcast series.

Honestly, the show prep notes from the series is what started out as the initial manuscript for the book. And a lot of this is the exact same stuff we went through in the podcast series.

But there was a few things I've done. One thing I did is I've made sure that there's a French and a Spanish and a Portuguese translation available. You know, there's a lot of the ex-message community that is in French Africa and in South America.

They do not speak English. So I'm getting something available. in those languages was something that was important for me to do, to be able to reach out to them. So there's foreign languages available, those three, French, Spanish, and Portuguese.

And then also, John, I've taken time to things, one of the two things that I think I've done in this book, I've tried to do real well is to walk through the relationship between the message and the latter-rain movement and to try and walk through how the message evolved both as a community and as a doctrinal theological system from latter-rain roots.

And show how the two interact together. And I'm sure most of the listeners of the podcast remember, I am formerly the associate pastor of the second oldest message church. And our people were here, our families were here from the very beginning of all of this stuff.

And so most message believers and most message churches came along in the 70s and 80s to be honest that are out there today. There's not actually a whole lot of message churches that have the roots back to the very earliest days of this like my church did, John, or your church, the tabernacle.

And so we have an ability to fill in a lot of blanks, I think, that maybe some people will be interested to learn exactly how the message spun out of the latter-rain, both as a community and as a set of beliefs.

Yeah, there's so much there. And like you said, the ones who are in the oldest groups, they have a better perspective of what it used to be. I have been to some of the newer message churches.

And honestly, if you go into them, you would, you know, you think they were just a regular Pentecostal church. And until they mentioned that random guy and then you scratching your head like, what is he talking about?

But for the most part, you know, some of the newer churches aren't that, I don't know what the word is, they're all semi-destructive, but they aren't as destructive, I think I would say. You go back further in time to some of the older sects and they are, it's just unbelievable some of the things that they teach.

You're right. This ideology, it, it makes you progressively more radical. You know, it starts you out in a less radical state, but progressively the ideologies organize you become more radical, more radical, more radical.

The oldest churches in the message tend to be the most radical of the message and then the younger ones less so. But given time, they catch up, right? And so that, that's just kind of the way the ideology works.

You know, it's kind of the same with the new apostolic reformation and the groups that, you know, were set up in the later 80s and the 90s, right? As we see in the news today, what, they're starting to catch up, right?

It just takes a little time because it's the way the ideology naturally evolves. It's like planning a bunch of weeds, man. You know, you can plan it as many times as you want and it's still going to grow weed eventually.

That's how this thing is, and I'm working with a lot of people now who are in the very, very distant, you know, grandchildren, great-grandchildren of the message. And in fact, I just had a recorded podcast just last night with somebody who was in the several different NAR groups.

I won't go into specifics which ones, but they said that right down to the prophecies that William Brannum had, their leaders were regurgitating the same prophecies. One of them was the California Sinking Prophecy.

And it was just mentioned casually, I think, in the movement. And she was like, I don't know where this comes from. Why are they mentioning this? And then she discovered our research and she's like, oh my gosh, this man is just parroting Brannum.

And they're plagiarizing the things that he said. Not even looking to see, did they, number one, did they even make sense? But number two, did they really come from God? And I think that's the biggest problem.

They don't critically evaluate William Brannum. They just assumed that he was this man of God because he's labeled as one of God's generals. Yeah, I know. It is a real shame, you know, because when you just take certain things for granted and you build a whole empire on it, you know, occasionally you have to look beneath your feet and try to figure out, is that sand down there or solid rock, you know, and you know, when we come out of the message, John, I mean, that's what we did.

We looked down under there and we're like, oh, man, that's, we got a lot of sand down there. And so you start digging for rock, right? And don't stop, you know, and that's, I feel like that's what we have done in a lot of ways, John.

We have dug until we hit solid rock, okay? And there was a whole lot of sand between us and the rock, but I, I feel like, you know, we're getting close to bedrock now.

And so I'm of the opinion that there was a lot of manure mixed in that sand. Yeah, litter box sand, huh? Yeah, I've tried in this book too, John, to also show how the message was so embedded with the broader letter rain community that ended up spinning out also word of faith.

And so we ended up leading into some of the new apostolic reformation stuff, Paul Cain, you know, his mentions in there and just try to bring it together to see how all this stuff, how it's interconnected, not just as, you know, just saying it's connected, but showing the actual people were actually together and also showing how their ideologies were the same and how they took it and it evolved here and there.

And you're right, John, so much of these, these NAR, new apostolic reformation groups, especially as you look at the Bethels of the world as the IHOPs of the world, they are nearly a future evolution of the same ideology they've it, it's grown over time, it's mutated a little bit. I've really enjoyed the interviews you've been doing with some of the people from IHOP. I love how I think her name was A1, was her name?

A1. I love the way she described it as mutates. That was really a very good description. It mutates. It takes the core pieces and it, you know, this little piece changes and this little piece changes and this little piece changes and they'll say, oh, hey, we got a whole new root, you know, a whole new religion. No, you know, you just got a few little evolved pieces, right? But it's the same thing. It just cycles over and over and over and over. And I think today, you know, I think we can say safely today, we're in probably like the 11th or 12th cycle

of this ideology, right? And the message of William Branum, if you back up, that's more like the 8th or 9th cycle of the same ideology. And it has just iterated over and over and over again.

And it sucks people in and they think, oh, we've got this new thing from God and they don't even realize this is just the same regurgitated stuff happening over and over again. Yeah, it's funny. I've got this guy who hounds me in the comment feeds and sends emails. He tries to disconnect the word of faith from Branumism because he's stuck in the word of faith. Apparently, the cult that they're in has not progressed into some of the newer stuff. They're word of faith weirdness. And it's funny because it wasn't until you and I were going through towards the end

of the podcast we did on the Branum history that it really clicked for me that word of faith was basically had just spun off from Branumism. And the thing that sealed the deal, man, is deal Osborne, the statements he made at the funeral. I mean, he's saying, William Branum is God in the flesh. And he says, I don't care if you think it's sacrilegious that I think Branum was God in the flesh. And even that, I knew that he had said that. What I didn't know, and it didn't click until, you know, you mentioned it, but he's saying it right there at the

convention of the full gospel businessmen's association. They're all there. And you don't find not one single rebuke of TL Osborne for this. Instead, they lift him up on this platform and say, here's our guy. He's one of the apostles of the word of faith. You're exactly right, John. And I mean, and there's just no, there is no question. I mean, the founders of all that outright said, we learn this from William Branum and FF Bosworth at the revivals. I mean, it's not even a question that that's where it's camps from, you know, TL Osborne. Roberts layered an interview TL Osborne

and said, hey, where'd you learn this from William Branum and FF Bosworth who had a chapter about EW Canyon in there, but like, it's not even a question where this stuff comes from. And you hear people argue about all this that it's all, it is amazing how this ideology brainwashes.

people and how they get so trapped into this mythical view that does not exist. And their whole world is so built on that that they don't want to look down, right? Because you look down, oh, it's sinking sand. They've got to pretend that it's the rock, you know, that they're, and it's sad. And, you know, and of course, John, you and I coming from this similar background, I mean, we, I can totally understand why people are like that because it is so painful. I mean, it is so hard. It is absolutely life-shattering to realize that this foundation you built your life

on was a hoax. And you have been a victim for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, some of these 60, 70 years, you have been built your life on a hoax. And it is, it's so sad and unfortunate, but it's very sadly, very sadly the truth for a whole lot of people. And it's never too late to wake up. And you know, what I tell people, John, on this side, all the people who are, you know, I work with, you know, it's unfortunate. We did have a false prophet, but just because William Brannum was a false prophet,

you know, it's good news. Jesus is still a real savior. So we can throw away him away. You know, we can throw away our false prophet. We can keep our real savior and be just fine, I think. So.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's a lot like going to a cosplay convention where you start to believe in the thing that you're playing. And then you realize that it's you're in the middle of a Stephen King novel. And this is, this is not a good thing that you're in. I remember waking up from that.

That's, there are, there are many ways, many emotions that I have. And there's many ways I describe it. But I think that was the general feeling. It's like I knew all along that I, they're inwardly deep inside. I did not believe the nonsense because there's a part of your brain that will critically think even if you're under the mind control. And once you escape, you realize, you recognize that that was always there. It's just that you were suppressing that inward thought.

You're, your authentic self was being suppressed by the mind control. And then after you wake up, you're like, why did I do that? You know, I'm smarter than that. Why was I, why was I like this? And it's, there's so many emotions you go through when you leave. I think another thing that is, is particularly hard. You know, especially when you, the higher up you go in this movement, the more you become an accomplice to the things that go on. And leaving this sort of a movement, especially when you're at a higher level in it, it's more than just acknowledging that, hey,

I got tricked and believed some silly things. It also becomes, having to look at yourself and say, wait a minute, not only was I tricked, not only did I believe some silly things, I did some bad stuff in the name of these silly ideas. I heard some people in the name of these silly ideas. I enabled people to be hurt in the name of these silly ideas.

And there's a lot of people who that is true in big and different ways in their lives. And because they have to admit that, not just necessarily that you have to admit it out loud, but they have to admit it to themselves. And I can't deal with the pain or the truth of admitting to themselves, but not only was I tricked and deceived, but being tricked and deceived, I have now lost this justification for all of these things that I have done. And I now have to look at some of them and realize, hey, these were bad things I did. And coming to grips with that

is hard for a lot of people, you know, because the truth is there are a lot of really damaged lives that have come out of this that people on the inside are in varying ways been accomplices to.

So that is one of the pains of waking up from this is confronting that reality. Yeah. And it's all part of the process, you know, when you leave one of these cult groups and then you get into a real church, there is a strong means to help the people grow inwardly.

There's a process of refinement where you become a better person and you constantly evaluate yourself to make sure that you're headed in the right direction. And when you do something that hurt someone, you reflect on it and you change your ways, you become better. But in these cult groups, there is no self reflection. It's all pointed to the leader instead of yourself. And you're supposed to become more like the leader. Well, in almost every cult group that actually every cult group that exists, there's an authoritarian figure who has gone mentally insane and they are just outwardly

narcissistic, you know, there's a lot of words that I could use that I won't against these people, but they're insulting people. And that's the mannerisms of William Brannum. So when you're in these cults, especially the Brannum cults, you're trained to insult other people. And that for me, when I left, I was shocked that I had become like this because we had this righteous indignation that we were better than other people and we became even more elite if we could say something bad about somebody else because whatever they were doing that didn't agree with our cult rules.

You're exactly right, John, you know, and William Brannum patterned out that behavior for his followers to follow, right? If you look through his through his life, I actually cataloged a fair bit of that to try and point it out to people in the book, come out of her, my people. And for example, when you look at William Brannum's falling out with AA Allen, William Brannum publicly attacked and ran.

asked A.A. Allen in his sermons for five months straight. Nearly every single sermon he was attacking A.A. Allen in his sermon, five months straight. That's not normal. That's not healthy. That's not appropriate.

But that is a pattern he set up. And so then people, message preachers, follow his corrupt pattern. And they think nothing to attack the same person over and over again for five months in a row in sermons, right?

And he sets these things up. And his enemies, their hogs, their dogs, their cows, their, you know, their Jezebel's, their A.A. Habs, he just sets all of this up in such a way that people feel justified to do and say really reprehensible things.

And William Brenham would do it to his own family. Like that's another thing I think maybe a lot of people didn't catch. William Brenham was this way towards his own family, right? You look at the stories he would tell about Billy Paul.

I'm right. And of course, Billy Paul, we know he was what he was in there. But he would tell stories. He basically trashed Billy Paul's reputation of the entire cult while he was alive, right?

He, he, Sarah Brenham. He basically said Sarah Brenham was possessed by the devil one time trying to destroy his ministry from childhood, right? He says things like this. He would throw his wife under the bus.

God cursed her with cancer because she backed up to me. He, nobody was safe, right? And, and when you follow a man who will just trash his own family in front of a crowd of, you know, 1,000 people, right?

You start to think, oh, that's normal behavior. I don't feel bad to do that sort of thing. But it wasn't OK. It wasn't OK when William Brenham did it. It's not OK when they do it today.

It's not OK to, to just harass people and viciously attack people and degrade people. Just for the sake of your own popularity or the sake of your own power or your own protection or whatever it is to one up, to get even with your enemies, it's not OK to do that.

But that, that is exactly what William Brenham modeled as behavior. And it's the same thing we see happen with a lot of different leaders in this movement. I hate to say it. Well, on the shocking part is that many of these movements that exist today have patterned their ministries after that.

And, you know, I didn't realize that. When you look at some of their publications and literature, you know, they always put the people with the smiling faces on the current covers. And so you look at this and you think, well, those look like really happy people in these NAR groups.

And we were in this oppressed cult. And we were all, you know, when you escape, you realize that you're really sad. But you told yourself that you were happy. Well, in talking with these people who have escaped the NAR, it was no different.

They just, you know, they're propaganda, they're literature that they pass out, has the fake smiles, too, just like our fake smiles. And people, when they snap out of it and they wake up, they realize that it's like the, you know, the boy who's...

whistling as he goes to the graveyard trying not to be scared, you're putting on this face that isn't really you while you're in these cults. I know it. You know, I, the churches I come from, like the pastor are, are, are central figure after William Brannum died. He was on the platform next to T. L. Osborne. He was on the platform next to Joseph Matson-Bose. He was on the platform next to Kenneth Hagen and these, he was there on the platform with these guys at some of these events and he was very keen to keep tabs on all of them. And so we were always fairly aware of

what was going on among the false and noinid ones. You know what I was in the message, right John? You know, we were all, the William Brannum labeled all of these guys the false and noinid ones.

They were, they were anointed by God with a false anointing to deceive the masses and blind them with, yeah, with signs and wonders and miracles to blind them to them truth of the message. And so we kept fairly close tabs on a lot of the false, the false and noinid ones. And I looked today and I realized, hey, they really were false and noinid, but we were, we were just screwed up back then, John, looking at that stuff. But yeah, I mean, we kept, we kept, I, I tabs on what, like, Paul Cain was up to, what T. L. Osborne was up to, what Kenneth Hagen, what all these guys

were up to. We were always aware that we diverged from one another. I mean, we sat on the same platform together. Our preachers, our leaders, right? And it's like really breathtaking, you know, to hear some of the people from those movements today pretend like we were never together. I mean, he just don't know what, they don't know what to talk about, John. It's so, it's sad. It really is sad.

It is. And you know, it's so backwards too, because I'm in talking with these people who have escaped the NAR churches. They, they all did the same thing. There was this practice widespread. We're going to keep dirt on the other guy. And so it was like spiritual blackmail. And sometimes outright blackmail, you had all the dirt. And if somebody was stepping out of a alignment or if somebody was going to rise up against you, well, you have the blackmail. And you just call them up and say, Hey, you do this. And I'm going to tell everybody that you did

X, Y and Z. But think of how backwards that would, would be in a Christian religion, where you're supposed to help people become better and help the center be saved. And all of this, instead of helping them in the direction that they need to go, you're going to blackmail them instead. This becomes nothing more than a Christian mafia. Oh, yeah. Like I, I remember when,

Paul Cain and all those guys, Kansas City prophets got going. Hey, we were watching you guys from afar that whole time. I want you to know that we were, we were watching you guys as a Toronto blessing happened. And Paul Cain was going to all that stuff. And John Wimber and all that stuff was getting going. I mean, we were watching all of that from our churches. Like we, we were, we were observing it. And as we would, we would like, tick off the box. Look, here's your great falling away. Here's your false anointed ones deceiving the masses. Here's your false revival.

That's how we explained all of that in our teachings and yeah, so I think that's part of how we have a little bit of an awareness, I think, of how those things diverged off that way.

But their belief system is so similar, John. It is so similar, so close to being the same. And we would label them all as these are the apostates who have, they have tweaked the truth away from what it really should be.

They've compromised themselves away, they don't keep the holiness standards quite right and now look at what it's created, you know, it's created this mess. And yeah, again, I cataloged a little bit of those things here in this book.

Get the book, everybody. And you know, there's one aspect to it that a lot of people don't think about. The same type of people who are attracted to a cult, they're often revictimized. And the same type of people who are in the brand of movements are often revictimized by the NAR movements.

And this, an example of this is going to come out in the podcast later, I think this one or air before it, but we talked about the Hobart Freeman cult, which that was also a spin off of the William Brandham cult, Splinter group, right?

And, and, and what was the name of Hobart Freeman's church? Yeah, the faith assembly, which is the name of the church. And the name of my church was faith assembly. That's not a coincidence, ladies and gentlemen.

It is not a coincidence. And so the Hobart Freeman cult, whenever he died and the cult began to sort of implode, those people went guess where, Charles, straight to Kansas City for the IHOP church.

You got it. Yep. This religion primes you that when something goes bad, you say, oh, it was just that leader just got caught a stray. And now we've got to go find our real prophet.

Oh, hey, there's Mike Bickle. Let's go. Yeah. Let's find the other guy who, let's find the other guy who has all the black male. Yeah. All right. I mean, that's just how it works, right?

You just, it treat, you, they jump from one to the other to the other to the other. And the truth is, it's just an, a lot of it is an unbroken chain of weirdness.

I notice one thing with the Kansas City prophets, John, that is little bizarre to me. They talk about this thing called prophetic history. Have you seen that? Yes. What is that? You know, like, to me, that's like, that's not even a thing, right?

Like, you, and you, you catch things like that. And to them, it seems like that's a really big deal. This prophetic history, just like us in the message, we had all kinds of things that was a big deal to us.

But at the end of the day, it's not even a thing. Yeah. prophetic history is that, I guess that's their, you know, their equivalent description, I guess, you know, their supplement description, kind of like the spoken word was our supplement description, I don't know, but, you know, each one of these stories that I'm doing with these people, you know, they're all coming from the same root.

So I can say that it's all related to what I'm doing, right? But the difference is, splinter group, as it splinteres off, they create their own loaded language. And what they're talking about, it may be the exact same thing as we have different loaded language for, but what these cult leaders do is ingenious, because they'll take some idea that William Brandham had, or somebody along that chain, and they'll rebrand it and give it a new name. And the secret thing that we know that none of the other Christians know, and what the problem for me is, I'm talking

people, I have no idea what some of these things are. I have to, as they're talking, you'll see me turn while I'm recording this podcast, I'm actually looking up what they're saying, so that can get some frame of reference to that loaded language. It's ironic, you know, because they almost have to do that, because the loaded language with each generation gets so many negative connotations and baggage associated with they got to change it, right? And they can't say, oh, this is lateral range 12.0. I can't say, this is manifested gods, 6.4, they've got to have a new, let's

call it dominionism, let's call it Joel's army, let's call it last day revival, so it shifts and shifts and shifts, because that baggage is associated with the old terms, almost forces them to do it. And of course, when they do that, then they can repackage it up just like you say and say, it's brand new guys. And no, it's not brand new. Yeah, there's only so much icing that you can put on a, no, I'm not going to say it. There's only so many ways that you can make something nasty look good. I think that's how I say it. You know, since you and I have been recording, we've been going

through the podcast with John McKinnon, and he and I discovered that Gordon Lindsay was deeply embedded in Christian identity. You and I knew that he was in British israelism, but as we have progressed, we found he was deeply embedded in Christian identity. And then John McKinnon also found that as, you know, as the two were emerging, the clan and the Christian identity groups, the clan formed this thing called the supreme kingdom. And leaders of the supreme kingdom in the clan were the same people who planted the the clan organization in Jefferson, Villandiana. So as I'm going through all of this research, I'm starting to understand that

you look at like the NAR's kingdom theology and you look at the seven mountain mandate, all of these things that they have rebranded, I can go back into time and I can tell you exact movements when they started and when they began that the NAR has just, you know, I don't know if they outright plagiarized it or if they just don't realize that they're repeating history as it goes, but they're doing the same exact thing. And I can show a full history pointing back to those very insidious moments.

movements of the early 1900s. Yeah, there, there, there comes a, a way that this ideology evolves that the leaders know, the leaders know they copied it, but the rank and file don't. And with each generation, there, there is built into this thing a natural loss of the knowledge of the past, where stuff comes from.

And as you get two and three and four generations removed, they really are, to some extent, I believe, really losing the past of where it came from. But it's important to not do that.

It's important to really understand this really is an ideology that really is passing down from people to people that you can put in the same room together, same, the same things, right? It's not, it's not a gas or speculation.

And, and you're right. I mean, some of the stuff that John McKinnon's on earth is really incredible, John. When you, when John McKinnon turned up that article, that newspaper article of Caleb Ridley, launching the Jeffersonville chapter of the Ku Klux Klan in 1921, I think, wow.

I mean, that, that's, that seals so much right there because that means that the Klan who paid William Brownham's hospital bill in 1924 and swooped in to save him was founded by Caleb Ridley, you know, launched with Caleb Ridley, Roy Davis's partner in starting the denomination Pentecostal assembly, you know, Pentecostal Baptist Church of God.

So he, that connects William Brownham directly into Roy Davis's orbit from 1924 at this stage. So, I mean, that is, uh, was an amazing find by John McKinnon. So, hey, shout out to John.

If you're listening to John McKinnon, great work. I mean, I'm fascinated. I'm listening in all that stuff, John. And I really appreciate that you're keeping it going. It's unbelievable. And that's the same guy that William Brownham's touring with in 1920.

What is it? 28, 29 years before he's supposed to have his alleged Pentecostal conversion. He's, he's holding Pentecostal revivals with these guys. And, you know, it's, it's not just John McKinnon. There's a, there's an element where we are sharing truth that has been misrepresented.

And we're rewriting history that has been written incorrectly. I strongly suspect that many, many leaders of the cult are aware of maybe, not all, but maybe 80, 90% of what's in this book that you wrote.

I guarantee you my grandfather knew probably half of what's on these pages. But they cover it up. They try to, anything that might make the cult be painted in a bad light. Instead of saying we accept that this is the history and that was wrong.

They shouldn't have done that in the historical past. We want to become better. Instead they cover it up. I know, just, if, if things really did happen, I mean, just say it happened, right?

Tell the truth that we can learn from it. from it, right? And grow, right? But when you cover it up, you almost do must to repeat the same mistakes. You know, one of the things that I did that is in this book more so than we ever covered in the podcast, John, and I'll I'll go ahead and tell you what it is if you don't want to buy the book. Because I don't care. Like, I'm not out to make a buck or anything. But I put in here a whole lot about the deity cult. And I have worked hard

with, to trace the origin and show where the deity cult, the deity cult of William Branham, the people who baptized and prayed and William Branham's name come from the heart of the latter reign movement. They came out of Canada in association with the Sharon orphanage. They moved to Jeffersonville in the 1950s. They eventually, because William Branham gave him power, took over all the key institutions of the message. And there was a secret cult baptizing and praying in the name of William Branham from early on in his ministry, right? From early on. And he played along. There's eyewitness testimony

of him playing along with it, even encouraging it privately. And this stuff was going on from very early on in his ministry, right? I don't know. Did I wonder if Kenneth Hagen knew the guy sitting next to him on the platform had a zone private entourage that worshiped him as God, right? There's some evidence, I think, very strong evidence that possibly Paul Cain and TL Osborne were somewhat tied into that sort of stuff. Paul Cain, even I suspect, may have been given the timings of his moves to Arizona and things that were going on in that point. But they basically even said at different times that William

Branham was God in the flesh, speaking these things, just like you would hear from the deity cult. And it is really shocking when you start to put the pieces together and realize that it was William Branham who groomed people to believe that he was the second coming of Jesus. It was William Branham who allowed them to begin worshiping and baptizing and praying in his name. And that he did nothing to arrest it. He let it go on. He let it develop for years. And he also gave all of those people the control over the institutions

of the message before he died. That is a very shocking thing to really see the true depth of how that happened. You know, I grew up in churches away from here. We always came back to Jeffersonville to see Grandpa obviously. But I wasn't aware of the deity cult until I moved here and started attending services more than just once or twice a year. These guys, they traveled with each other. So they were very intimate with understanding everything that was going on. They were right there in the heart of it. When I moved to Jeffersonville, not only did I discover that there is a deity cult. There is a group

of people in Jeffersonville that actually worship and pray to God. William Brannum's name, and the son's name, there's actually like it morphed into a second deity cult. You've got the ones that worship the father and the ones that worship the son, and it's not the same father and son that other Christian's worship.

That exists in Jeffersonville, and everybody knew it, everybody, because the not going to give any names, but the central figure of the entire message is part of the deity cult, in that he knows it, and he's not stopping it, and all of these people are praying directly to him.

That's how bad this is. Grandpa knew it, everybody knew it. I have a hard time believing that these men who traveled with William Brannum were not aware, and you don't find a single one of them preaching against it, which means if you're going to allow this thing in your Christian minister, which this is the deepest, darkest heresy known to man, to worship this man as a God.

If these people aren't denouncing this thing, either they're not Christian, or they want it to progress. Right. And you know, when someone gets to the point that they're letting other people worship them as God and encouraging on that belief, I mean, I don't see how you can say that they were ever really a Christian, you know, that kind of just is so damning.

So damning, you know, once they start proclaiming themselves with God, I mean, unless there's some deep mental illness, it just, you've almost got to throw out everything they did. You know, once they come to that point, William Brannum was absolutely there, absolutely there.

And he didn't get there in the 60s. He was there in the 50s. He was there in the 50s, ladies and gentlemen. He was already there in the 50s. It was just under the covers, you know, hidden behind the scenes.

And yes, John, I mean, the institutions of the message are absolutely from the back in those days controlled by members of the William Brannum, D.D. called, absolutely, absolutely. And all you got to do is just go look at their gravestones in the Eastern cemetery, John.

And I mean, it is so they practically have D.D. quotes on their, on their tombstones, even some of them. It's shocking. You know, even as a kid, I remember as a kid, we would play in, you would pretend to be some fictional character that you either read in a book or saw on a, you know, television, whatever, David Crockett, you know, as a kid, I would swing through the trees as tarzan.

There's not a, not a chance that you could have got me even as a child to say that I am God, I'm going to pretend to be God, because I knew as a child how wrong that was, think of this man as an adult, these men know that this is wrong inwardly.

They know it's wrong. Why they're doing it, I don't know, but I can tell you that everybody who's involved with this D.D. cult made a heck of a lot of money. I know one thing, John, that I, that I came across that I put in here, that I thought was really...

very illustrative. Very illustrative was an article that an advertisement for a book wrote by Gordon Lindsay. And the advertisement for this book says, the title of the book is Will Elijah Come Again by Gordon Lindsay. And if you read his little advertisement, he says, this book contains a message for this hour. This book contains a message for this hour. And when you see the words around that, and you say, Gordon Lindsay advertises in this book, you're in the message, you start scratching your head. What? Gordon Lindsay knows about a message for this hour. Gordon Lindsay is talking about Will Elijah Come

Again? And you know, you get these books and you realize this thing really is just a repeating ideology. You know, like we mentioned earlier, he is taking the exact same idea of a coming Elijah to the church out of historic British Israelism. He was born in John Alexander Dowie's commune, where these ideas came in through British Israelism. And he regurgitates them. FF Bosworth came from there. William Brown will learn these things. I mean, did William Brown read that book by Gordon Lindsay? Will Elijah Come Again? It has a message for your hour and then decide to go do that. I mean, did he? Did he? Because I'll tell

you what? Yeah, William Brown, I've never mentioned that there's an Elijah coming and you have a message for your hour before Gordon Lindsay wrote that book. You know what I mean? And you realize these, there's a common thread in all of this. And it all branches from a common root, all of this ideology, all of this idea, whether it's the single four-runner Elijah that we had, whether it's the generation of Elijah's stuff, that you find that evolved into the third wave of Pentecostalism and, you know, into the new apostolic reformation today, it all comes back to common roots in the Pentecostal branch of British

Israelism, right? Where the British Israelites who came into early Pentecostalism brought a pre-existing ideology with them. Most of Pentecostalism kicked it in the rear end out the door in the 20s, and they landed over in the four-square denomination and eela missionary of fellowship. And then from there, it was survived just long enough to get into the early days of Laterane. From Laterane, it kicked off into what we had in the message.

And from the message, from figures like Paul Cain, who Paul Cain was in the message, we're good and it's safe. You know, it just carried on into crazier, and crazier, and crazier stuff all the way down to the state, and it just keeps going over and over and over again, the same ideology cycling. You know, when I left the cult, and I started to understand what was in the Bible, without the Bible, without the message lens, and you read like the book of kings, and a great king rose up, and he fell to idolatry. Then this other

great king rose up, and he fell to idolatry. Then another, they fall to idolatry. Well, and then I started piecing together the Pentecostal history and you look in the roots leading up to William Brannum.

You've got Dowie rose up as an Elijah and then he fell to a strong disgrace. You got Frank Sanford as the Elijah, he fell to a disgrace. Charles Fox Parham, he claimed to be an Elijah, he fell and it just pattern after pattern after pattern after pattern.

And you just have to ask yourself, what caused this, what made these men decide to do this? Did they really think that they were the return of Elijah like they claimed? Every one of them made a lot of money off of it.

I mean, Dowie, they labeled him the richest man in the West. He had 10, and today's money, it was over half a billion dollars. I think the numbers like 5.5, you know, half a billion dollars and basically.

But they made all of this money doing it and you have to wonder, did they really believe it? Or did they just figure out that this is a pattern that makes you so much money that you can get wealth beyond your wildest dreams if you claim to be Elijah?

You're right, John. And so for anyone out there who wants to get the book, you can find it on Amazon. You can find it available in French, in English, in Portuguese. If there's anyone out there in the message community and you know of another language that we don't have a lot of English speakers, reach out to me, I'll do my best to get to a translation and that, that as well.

The cheapest way to get this book, if you have Kindle Unlimited, it's free. Okay, that was the cheapest way I found to get rid of it. It's on Kindle Unlimited for free. The ebook is also, you know, fairly cheap.

So that's probably the easiest way to get a hold of it. And I hope it's a useful resource to anyone out there. One more plug. One more plug. If I'm working on volume two of it, so I'm working on what comes after William Brown.

But there's any message old timers out there who like to talk about what happened in the 70s and 80s. Hey, reach out. I love talking about message history. I love to bounce ideas off the people that were there just to see, because you know, a lot of things you hear.

But rumor, what didn't even, was anybody there? And I like to try and figure some of those things out. So I'm always glad to chat people from the older days who like to talk and, hey, 70s and 80s is coming up next in volume two.

One behalf of everybody who has read it and wants to thank you for it. I've got emails that people are, you know, really, really excited that they got their new copy and they're getting into it.

On behalf of all those people and the people who are going to get it and read it who want to thank you, I'll say thank you. And I'm deep into it myself. I've not made it all the way through because you outdid me.

Your book's a little bit thicker than mine. So I'm getting into it and this is a great read for anybody who wants it. You got to get Charles's book. It has come out of her, my people by Charles Paisley, a history of the message of William Brannum, volume one, the days of the voice, 1930 through 1960.

If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web, you can find us at www.William-Branum.org. For an overview of the historical research of William Branum and the healing revivals, read preacher behind the white hoods, a critical examination of William Branum and his message, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

www.William-Branum.org www.William-Branum.org