Converging Apostasy: The NAR Manchild

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org and with me I have Steve Montgomery, the author of The Converging Apostasy, and a quick outline of hands-on eschatology, a matter of timing and agency.

And together we're discussing the themes of apostasy in the New Apostolic Reformation and its history. Steve, it's good to be back and continue our discussion on mysticism and Bill Britten, Sam V, the NAR.

We've gotten, since our last podcast has came out, we've gotten so many good compliments and feedbacks on this information because if you're in the NAR, this is the stuff they try to keep covered up.

They do not want you to know this. So we're giving the sources for many of their, quote, unquote, divine revelations. You know, you'd think Steve, they could have picked better sources for those divine revelations.

Absolutely. It's really mind-boggling, but good to be back with you. It's been a while. Awesome. Well, let's get into it. Last time we were discussing, we got deeply into discussing Bill Britten and Sam V, in the NAR, and the break you and I had has been a bit good because I've been diving into some of the more current histories.

As you know, for years, my research went up to approximately 1970, and recently we're getting an onslaught of people who are escaping the NAR. Oh, yeah, and especially with the IHOP scandal, you know, I'm not going to talk about what happened there everybody knows, but we're getting a flood of people who are just now waking up and they're like, wait a minute, what was this mess I was in?

That is right. And, you know, that, that really makes me think about, like what you're saying more currently, but more, it's like everything old is new again and everything new is old again. So when you hear the NAR folks say this or that, a doctrinal kind of escapades they get into, there's always a background.

And Bill Britten happens to be one of those background players. I don't know. have this in my notes but something that came to mind right away is a mess this church that I intended fairly regularly. I went up to the person who's in charge of all the prayer initiatives at the church. She's fairly new there. I said, oh, we'll get to meet you. So where are you from?

She says where she was from and I said, so where did you worship? She says, well, I worshiped in IHOP and I said, oh, really? And I say, I say, okay, well, this is say a non-carrismatic Methodist church. So this is kind of an interesting crosscurrent to have somebody from that very nor perspective. And then lo and behold, just on a hunch, I may have mentioned this before, but here goes a thought it was significant. I mentioned, do you happen to know George Warnock and his writings and the response looked like like what? And I said, yeah, you know, the feast

of Tabernacles. She goes, oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know that one. I said, well, what about Bill Britons, the patterned son, which was one of his main influential writings? She said, oh, yes, very familiar with that. And so the same church, the pastor has praised IHOP as a place to learn more about the spiritual warfare and fervent prayer, et cetera. So yeah, the tentacles were reaching out far and wide. And Bill Briton still remains important. So why is he important?

Well, one, he was one of the laterary prophets. And that can bring a big so what? Well, laterary in 1948, several of the main prophets were influenced by Jane Leade. So he was Jane Leade, as a reminder, she was a mystic at 17th century mystic who said something very un-Christian and they goes with her un-Christian background into esoteric teachings like alchemy and Kabbalah and all the other things that esoteric folks like to go for. But she said that her source of all her revelations was the so-called great goddess, spouse of God named Sophia.

Well, in the esoteric world, that's a fairly common thing to say because it opens up the the trendety of, you know, like traditional Christian teachings to this new so-called balancing more democratic. male, female, divinity, and also gets morphed into teachings about Mary, the mother of God. Well, now you have this Sophia and there can be one of the saints sometimes in Esoteric Rome. Okay, another thing about Bill Britain was he taught what I've been calling hands on eschatology. Well, what does that mean?

Essentially it means this. It's a group of teachings some people refer to him as the manifest sons of God doctrines, but basically hands on eschatology means that everything that is to occur in the end times will be in and through the corporate body of Christ. So other than some of the terminology, this concept is so, so very present in the dark. And so you get this kind of backward tracking because under your very, very much into historical tracing of different issues.

You go with the NAR, you take a step backwards, you've got these influential prophets of the latter rain movement. Take that back to Jane lead in the 17th century, and you essentially get precedents she set for a hands-on eschatology meaning perfection, taking dominion. That should sound very familiar. And literally carrying out a sacred purge when before Jesus is allowed to return. So that's the hands-on part of it. Is it we are going to do it? The body of Christ is going to do it. And so often you hear it's not just your every your every day average Christian who's going to do this knows called out

elite folks, the chosen. Okay, so I can show how he had an influence very directly through some interviews that I did with people associated with Britain. So this is before the NAR, but the NAR should should hear how these three examples, folks that know about the NAR, they'll say yeah these are very NARish sorts of thing to say. So here am I called this guy named David Tyson, who's been influenced by Britain. And he tells me the sons of God, not the church in general, but those who are quote overcomers will administer the wrath of God. That's a big mouthful, but that's that's the common perspective

they get. Then I then I said, ask, do you realize what an awesome thing this is to say? And David Tyson says, yes, yes, I do. I said, it's frightening. That's pretty much an understatement. When you consider the lone wolves who like to take things into their own hands and even movements say like capital, January 6th Attacks that this kind of perspective is not what you want people to have in their heads Especially when they have a gun in their hands So David Tyson tells me he wraps up this way. He says Yeah, it was a scary thing when I read it

But the overcomers will be a channel used by God to pour his wrath out and you're absolutely right. It's a scary thing Uh, yeah

So so yeah, I bet this thing about the overcomers. I think I hear that that fret of that word Less within our folks now because it's kind of terminology that the earlier Incarnation of the sons of God teachers Used that a lot. They love that word the overcomers. We are the overcomers But the part about being used as a channel and All things in the end times will be through us. That's that's very norlike. So I I said well seems like on a path that people should know about So I had another conversation this time with a an associate of Bill Britain's his name was Roy Ralph

I guess you could turn that around say Ralph Roy But anyway, his name was Roy Ralph and so he tells me this I believe that the enemies of God will be destroyed first and foremost through his saints translation blah blah blah through the saints Okay, so that's an important that's an important thing. We say through and under you're aware of this job that Early later on brain folks Definitely William Brandon, but then somebody like Franklin Hall They said very similar things and so Ralph continued. He says Jesus Christ is going to come in his saints

He's are going to come with the clouds of heaven in other words in his people translation blah blah blah in his people. So even that thing you know that Jesus Let's have been known That every I Will see when he returns and this will be like in the clouds with the clouds of heaven These folks Construe that in a way to make it It's a metaphor that they twist to their own desires and so the apostle Peter even said that about the apostle Paul He acknowledged he says This will be a paraphrase, but it says yeah, Paul's pretty confusing isn't he?

But people misuse what he says to their own destruction So you guys that are well versed in your scriptures could lick that up because that's Definitely it's a statement that Peter had to say about Paul Okay, and then finally here's another Conversation I say finally know there's many others before the sake of time This is a conversation with another so-called prophet his name is Henry Stan And he was a little bit more backwardsly kind of fellow. I don't know that he was highly educated, not that that matters, but this is where he expressed things.

He said, the Lord is releasing to the sons of the authority. See, even to take vengeance on the heathen so that judgment is definitely, and the government and everything is going to come under the order and the operation of the sons of God.

So again, do you get that, that idea of rulership, you get the idea of a sacred purge, aid, get the idea of taking dominion, which should not be in the vernacular of Christians. You know, it's just fascinating to me because when you look at what was happening back in the 50s and 60s in the United States, well actually across the world, it was very, very different time.

And people weren't, they didn't have as much access to information as they do today. So, you know, you can give them a little leeway. They believe some very strange things because they just weren't yet progressed as a people enough to understand, you know, some of the stuff is just pure nonsense.

And what happened was they took all of these esoteric ideas and they merged it in with Christianity because it appealed to the itching years. And like we earlier said, they chose some very bad sources.

So, you know, I can still give them some leeway back in the 40s and 50s and 60s, but it fascinates me to know in that this still exists today. You have all of these people who are because they chose these very weird esoteric sources of mystery. Well, they can continue this forever because people are still going to be so confused by it.

And one of the things you don't know this, so this would be a surprise to you. But one of the things I tried to do for this podcast that we're recording today, I reached out to the head of the Janelead.org.

The website actually she reached out to me and we started contacting each other and discussing. And, you know, obviously we disagree on doctrine, you know. I give her that. But my research, I don't care where the source comes from. If you get good valid information, I don't care who you are. I'll talk about it.

So, I invited her on the podcast with us. And when I did, you know, I kind of had a sense that things had progressed in such a way where, you know, rightly dividing truth, find the things that we agree upon, find the things that, well, no, this was a mystic lady from back.

Oh, you decade centuries ago. And long story short, it didn't work out because apparently there is still a group of people in the world who are dedicated to the teachings of Janelead as though she's some great, you know.

goddess of Christianity. I don't know what you call this person. She's a mystic. She's a mystic goddess of Christianity, however you call it. And you know, if this person is listening, I'm still, I would be glad to have you on the show to talk through, you know, we can find common ground, but understand why Jane lead. But I think the common ground that we both discuss via email is still very valid.

What she and I discussed, even though she was in favor of Jane lead, and I definitely am not, where the NAR went with it is so far beyond what Jane lead even taught. They took her ideas, and they laid the foundation with this doctrine from Jane lead. And then they built towers and towers and towers of theology on top of that mixed with their own ideas. And they made this mess that really you can't step away from it. If you pull out any piece of this tower of theology that they have, you end up with nothing, the whole tower crumbles. And she, the lady from

Jane lead.org, we were kind of talking about that back and forth via email. And she agreed, man, this has turned into a mess. So even the people who are sympathetic to Jane lead will agree that the NAR has made a mess of things. Yeah, this is true. And actually, I can cut to the chase very quickly there and say that if you look at Jane lead's teachings in totality, which the person you're talking to really exemplifies is that through Jane lead's teachings, you can have your cake and eat it too. So Jane lead was another one of the folks like Andrew Jeeps, I think his

thing was a universalist. So her teachings are that everyone will be saved. But in the midst of those teachings, there's this caveat, which says, yeah, everybody will be saved. But at the same time she lays down the doctrinal precedence for, and she clearly states that these things will happen before Christ returns. That's the right quote from her. And what are those things? Well, taking dominion, the man's child company will take dominion. The feast of Tabernacles is a typing shadow, the perfection of the elite of the church. And she refers to the sacred purge, she gives several scriptural ideas about that. She calls it, they will smite, you know,

I'm technically speaking, smite is a very strong word when you talk about destruction of others. And she makes comments about, first, you will have to be cleansed inside so that the the words on the outside, what you're giving to the rest of of society and the church can come into fruition.

So yeah, I hear you and I hear her, but I really don't, I don't think that person, it'd be odd to say she hasn't read as much as I have. She probably has much more, but you can clearly see that.

And I brought this up actually the same comment with a scholar, Dr. Bridget Jacobs, who studied Jane Leed. And I said, well, how is it that you have these things where it's like she's speaking out of both sides of her mouth, like she goes this way and this way, judgment day, dominion one side, the other side is universal salvation, all will be saved.

And Dr. Bridget Jacobs said that this was an example of her having so much written down that her teachings kind of progressed towards something which was very, very easy to be interpreted and had the precedent set for the people who plagiarized her works in the later reign, which leads on up to, I hop on those guys so influenced.

So what it comes down to, it really doesn't matter to me if every Iota of her teachings is analyzed properly and what she said here and what she said there fits into one big bottle of wax.

It matters to me if somebody has the precedent set for hands-on eschatology in which dominion, rulership and purge happen in and through the corporate body of Christ before Jesus is allowed to return. And you can clearly see that in the naran and I would posit that you can clearly see that in Jane Leeds teachings if you know where it is and what they'll look for.

So but yeah, you're saying some things that really maybe think of people kind of taking these old teachings and essentially baptizing them and reducing them so that they have different versions of the same concepts.

So leading to Sam 5, Sam 5 was a one-time associate with Bill Britton and I think Bill Britton in many ways

went beyond 5 because he was so much more influential to the body of Christ that large and to different charismatic churches that received his influence to folks like Bill Hammond who sort of trickled down effect, got the same perspective that Bill Britton had on all this stuff.

And so we've already said a lot about this, but just review 5's. a group ended up being called the move. Initially, I think they referred to themselves as the body of Christ, straight from the Bible.

But they also became recognized as a very destructive cult with thought reform and plenty of allegations of physical and sexual abuse. So, Fife refers to Bill Britton positively and numerous of his materials. And just on a personal note, I can say that of the deprogramming that I was involved in, also called exit counseling, one of the only people that was completely unsuccessful was the follower of Sam Fife.

He'd been in the move for maybe 10, 15 years. And I don't know what it was, could have been this person's psychological makeup prior to getting into the group. But it appeared to me that she really was just not there.

After about three or four days, we had to determine this is not working. So, unfortunately, some of the sources I used from Sam Fife are in his writings, other ones, but here's some of the manuals.

One is the one corporate man that she sent familiar to the old concept that we hear in the NAR. Sons of God teachers would call this the man-child company. The one new man, this should be very familiar to people who have heard Bob Jones and all these guys, laterally reads, but influential on IHOP and others.

Then here's another one, the mystery of a man and a maid. This one is another one interesting because it kind of wink wink nod nod back to the teachings of the second century Gnostic Valentinus and that's a big kind of worms, but just to let you know it's been around, that kind of idea.

And then here's another one, get into the theocratic urge, God's divine school of government. So, Fife was teaching on that. And then this one is just pretty much more explicit. He calls this teaching, deeper teachings, the meat of the work.

Number 34, the manifestation of the sons of God. You know, the man-child come up in an episode you and I were just discussing it prior to this, actually, the Hobart Freeman episode. We were talking about the manifested sons of God and Hobart, like William Brannum, was a teacher of the man-child theology.

And even though Brannum used different names, it's the same theology and it's woven all throughout the Christian identity movement because it was the framework for what they chose to be as the race war.

And you can go to William Brannum's sermons and... If you search for the super race or you search for the battle that's coming between the African Americans and whites, he talks about this. That's exactly the framework for Christian identity, and it'd be good to pause a moment because in that episode we really didn't define it.

I assumed everybody knew and I grew up with these weird teachings, so what's in my head is not always in the audience, but there's a chapter in Revelation, Revelation 12, that talks about the woman in great travail gives birth to a man's child, and they believe the people of this weird theology.

They believe that this is either their group or their leader, there's different variations of it, but whatever is the implementation of this, this is the thing that rises to make war with the enemy, and in the construct of a destructive cult, sometimes that enemy is the equal to other Christians, because the other Christians who don't join in your sect, they're the bad guys, you're the good guys, you're the elect siege, they call it.

So this man's child theology isn't just making war with, you know, in Revelation, it's war with the beast, and you know, Christians, when they think of this, they think of this battle between the forces of good and evil and Revelation's eschatology, well, these guys really, truly believe that it's human beings, we're fighting other human beings, some of which are Christian.

Yeah, John, I'm glad you brought that up. Two points, Juan, as you're talking about race war, isn't that interesting, ironic that somebody so clearly understood to be an evil person, generally speaking, Charles Manson also had that idea about race war, so that seems to be a favorite topic of folks that are pretty much in the deep end of the pool.

And the other part is the war against other Christians, you can very, very clearly see this in all of the manifest sons of God teachers that were latering prophets of 1948, who were influenced by Jane Leap, and so what do they say?

They say that judgment begins first in the House of God. Well, this is clearly from Scripture. However, when you get the idea that they will carry out this judgment, and it's coupled with things like, quote, many of them, Kelly Varner, Bill Britten, Bill Hammond, George Warnock, when all of those folks are talking about this will happen in and through the church.

It's our responsibility, speaking of Sam 5, he clearly said this also, then you have a war yet to be manifested, thank goodness, but you have a war carried out by these elite Christians that will be First aimed at Christians and pastors, Bill Hammond, has his famous statement, famous to me, where he says, if God sacrifices his own son to birth the church, what do you think he's going to do to those pastors who aren't getting with it?

They're going to be sacrificed too. So yeah, it's very clear, that's a narrow prophet, you know, saying something like that. Well, that leads me to something here, John, which I know you'll relate to.

And that is the idea that there's nothing new under the sun. You know, these guys say, oh, we have God told me this, God told me that, really. It's been around, and it just happens to resurface over and over again, slightly different packaging.

So, under nothing new under the sun, I have this thing from Psalm 5. And I say, Psalm 5 sounds like, well, he sounds like the second century, not stick, Valentinus. For example, Valentinus taught that those who are not made sinless will be destroyed.

So, he had these three groups, you know, the super saved, the average saved, and the never will be saved. They never will be saved, or those who are not perfected, interesting. It's not just guys who are really, really horrible people doing all sorts of crimes and sins towards other people.

No, he's saying that if you're not perfect, you're going to be taken out. Okay, so that's Valentinus. Well, let's compare that to 5. The only people who survive is talking about, as you mentioned in the book of Revelations.

The only people who survive are those who achieve a state of sinless perfection, couldn't be more clear. Now then, I know the idea of Kabbalah, or Kabbalahs, I've heard it properly pronounced. That's a bit wacky and weird, and people just say, it's not stick, or it's bad, or it's un-Christian.

Well, true, on all counts. But there's some very particular teachings that came out of that one. Out of Kabbalah is the so-called one man. Well, you can certainly hear that in the Narm. In Kabbalah, they call that Adam Kadman, and he's this idea of this one perfect man who all will be absorbed into when things are made perfect, and God is, quote, all in all.

So here's what 5 says along those lines. And I'm quite sure it came from Kabbalah, because Bill Britain was influenced by Kabbalah. Also, David Ibaugh, also Roe Cronquist, also Franklin Hall. All of that's clearly documented in the conversion of apostasy.

So 5 says. Quote, there's only one man, and that is God, interesting. Every other man here on this earth is only a type of the one true man, okay? Then he says, God will make of all the two's, one, many, membered man, so to either in or out, and that's coming straight from Kabbalah.

And Fife also sounds like medieval so-called Christian cobalist, and if this doesn't sound mystically inclined, then who knows what is. But he said, quote, the moon is going to be clothed with all the light of the sun and brought into a spiritual union with Jesus, her heavenly husband.

Not only Kabbalah, but that's leaning towards, again, towards Valentinas. Fife says, and here goes with Wesley Swift, with all the other guys we've talked about. Fife says, this union will change us into incorruptibility.

Now for your folks that are familiar with the Bible, there are references to this corruption being made incorruptible, and all of this happening when Jesus returns. But all of these guys are talking about this perfectionism coming before Christ returns.

Absolutely. And I say this every episode that we, you and I do together, I'll say it again, so many triggers, man, whenever you start mentioning these phrases, the perfectionism, be ye therefore perfect, you know.

We had so many key words that came out of Latterin, these loaded language phrases that were just totally ripped out of context, and they were programmed in your head, and what's really odd is when you take a step back from all of this, ignore Latterin, ignore William Brannum, and just look at the framework of how a cult is designed.

It's always a carrot on a string. You've got some authoritarian figure who says, you can follow me, and you can be better than you are now, and give you, you know, he'll give them unattainable goals because everybody's human, right?

And he'll tell you, he has the power to get you there, and it's a carrot on a string. You never actually reach the carrot. Well, the be ye therefore perfect, it was Matthew 5, and what's interesting about that is that that phrase comes from a passage that is actually talking about love your enemy, love, you know, love your neighbor, and be good to those that are around you, those that persecute you, love the ones who are persecuting you.

So what they've done is they've taken that, ripped it out of context, and they take it so that it says that be ye therefore perfect so that you can rise above your enemy and totally destroy them, along with the others who do not believe our cult, theology.

Yeah, and while you're saying that again... something's going through my mind, that I don't have my notes here, but SimFive's successor was Buddy Cobb, and so I talked to Buddy Cobb and wrote a few letters to him and then read some of his writings. But he says the same thing about those who are not sinless will be put to death.

And so if you don't reach that perfection, and the other thing that comes into my mind is people that know the lettering was, and the manifest sons of God, teachers like Delbrett and SimFive, those who know how controversial they were. Well, sort of skipping dance around the word perfect and get to make complete, brought into the fullest of the Statue of Christ. You hear that from everyone to Kenneth Copeland, two others who say these things. And even avoiding John and Jimenez, who are so-called Kingdom Message folks, totally influenced by Bill Breton and Jimenez after her husband John passed away. She had not too far back, I think it was 2005 or 2006,

maybe a little bit later. She had a teaching called the manifestation of the children of God, and she says, well, you know that devil takes some of the phrases that we have and we know that the deeper meanings, he takes those ideas and he distorts them and some people go a little bit overboard with it. Well, they just put that means let's regroup, let's repackage, let's rephrase, but let's maintain the same ideas. So five sounds like others, you bet, he's not original. He sounds like Bill Breton. Five quotes, Bill Breton, Bill Breton directly and says, Jesus is the patterned

son, meaning you follow this divine pattern and you too will be an elite chosen, called out son of God who can carry out the judgment, rule and reign, et cetera before Christ returns. Five also sounds like Jane Leed, no mistake, no surprise. He said that the elite will become quote, one, many membered manchild, there you go, who has become, as it were, the company of two harmonies, two armies. Well, there's a lot, a lot to be unpacked there, but two harmonies, meaning one up in the heaven, leasing one down here on earth, they will become one, interesting.

And the idea of the manchild company, yeah, we've heard that, but what I thought was funny is, a lot of these guys who steal their doctrines from others, they carry with it grammar, in terms of phrase, they're not, you don't really figure they're their own, this probably happen numerous times with, well, you're brain, I'm being somewhat uneducated himself, but when The fight says they will become the man's child, one who has become, as it were, it sounds like he's doing, he's quoting Shakespeare.

He's using a grammatical turn or phrase that doesn't really sound in keeping with him. So I haven't traced that one down to where he got that from, but so but what about these two armies?

Well, the fight says, this will go straight back to Valentinus and Jane Leigh. He says, quote, in the marriage chamber, the twain will become one flesh. No, he is not talking about a man and a woman will leave their parents and the two will become flesh when they're married.

He's just using that as a metaphor for, again, what Valentinus and those who came after him who were influenced by the kind of thinking of the merger of that which is above, that which is below, in the occult world, as above, also below, and there you have it.

No surprise on that one too, because the occult world so much influenced by Valentinus and it goes to Blavatsky, Alice Beatty, Ruth Montgomery, thank goodness, no relation, but anyway. So what is the source for these teachings?

Well, let's try Jane Leigh. She said this in the 17th century, quote, Christ above and Christ beneath may join together in those who shall personate him upon the earth, personate him, hmm, follow him, no, because she clearly says in her other statements, they will be all godified as Christ.

And this idea, really the Christ above and the Christ beneath, sounds like she's getting a little bit off on that. Here's another one. Five sounds like Jane Leigh and Bill Hammond. So if I said all throughout time, there have been two great armies, one on the other side of the veil, sounds kind of mystical, and one on this side here on earth.

He says the army on the other side of the veil shall be incorporated with those alive on earth. Many choice of word there, incorporated, because it's not really correct grammatically, I don't believe, but Jane Leigh said similar things.

So what five and Jane Leigh are getting at there is perfection through their theoretical through therogy, through theoretical means. So what does that mean? That literally means what in the esoteric world they would say invoking spirits to do your bidding to give you divine.

and revelations or to literally come into union with, to become a quote, channel, would be a new age way to put it. And so where did that come from? Well, the wording of those on the other sides will be incorporated.

Lead says through a transforming correspondency, the saints that on earth will become companions to those of high degree in heaven. Really? I don't see the Bible talking about that too much. Well, where did this go?

I mean, we're talking about stuff on the 17th century. Bill Hammond, the current day, nor are prophets says this. The elite must join angelic hosts. The angels will come and appoint themselves companions. Well, that's what the elite said.

So Hammond says this probably three times. I'll just quote it once. He goes, accept them. So he's very excited about that concept. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Steven Montgomery, John McKinnon and others, with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book.

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We're talking about the two great armies and though they repackage it, they rebrand it, they give it, in some cases they just shrouded in secrecy because whenever this gets out to the public, it turns into a mess, such as what happened with the Joel's army.

So when they're talking about the two great armies, one of the reasons why they always go back and focus on these laterane guys is because the birth of the laterane focused intently upon the Joel's prophecy and it was talking about the great army of locust, et cetera, that was rising up.

Well, back in laterane, they said, this is us. Let's prepare for it. We're about to do exactly what these NAR guys are predicting. It didn't happen. And you know, laterane died out. NAR is rebranding this again.

And some years ago, I can't remember the exact date. This made news, right? You had, who was it? I think it was Mike Bickle influencing Todd Bentley about the Joel's army. And suddenly this gets blasted all over the internet and the newspapers from Southern Poverty Law Center that these guys are teaching this militant version of Christianity right here in the United States.

And it turns into this fine line between Christianity and domestic terrorism in the way that they presented. They hadn't armed themselves. But what's interesting is Southern Poverty Law picked it up because if you trace its roots back, it's not just a latarine that shares that root, it's also Christian identity.

You had Wesley Swift and you had all of these guys that were using the same exact thing, same exact theology from Jane Leed and others. And what did they have? They had the celestial bodies teachings.

So when they're talking about Christ above, Christ below, they're talking about the bodies that were incorporated that was directly from latarine and Christian identity. They were both teaching that you would come in these two dimensions, sometimes they would say, would come together and you would be one with your celestial body.

I grew up with his nonsense, right? And now I take a step back from it and it makes great sci-fi movies, but this isn't Christianity, man. No, it is not. And, well, numerous comments come to my mind, but one in response to what you just said is because of the controversial nature of the latarine and how they're coming into, a lot of people are criticizing it.

Well, because of that, the narrows aware of that. And they use the latarine folks and their terminology and their teachings, kind of like a straw man. And so they say, oh, look what those guys did back then and they slice up the straw man.

And then they come around the back door and teach the same old stuff. So yeah, and the idea of, you know, just if your listeners and our listeners have not heard this enough, it can't be repeated enough.

Is the idea that you have the fivefold ministry primarily nowadays with the idea of the current day of apostles and prophets? Well, the stepping stone from latarine to manifest sons of God and then bring it on down to the kingdom message in the 1980s and then the current day NAR.

All of those guys had this idea of ongoing revelation. So yes, there's a bridge that goes from the deeper teachings and manifest sons of God on into Christian identity and it's just darker and darker as you go.

People who have taken that step, I can easily tell you that Bill Britton happens to be one of the most slippery ones because he was a... accused of saying things like that, never really pinned down thoroughly in my opinion.

But some of the other great, great, I say, profits of the land of rain that were influenced by Jane Leed did. That would be role-crowned quest, J. Preston, E.B., George Houghton, the father of the land of rain.

And then also like next generation folks, like David E. Ball, who you and I've talked about as being, you know, directly in identity teachings. And also another one, another slippery one, was a close associate of Belbrens.

His name was Kelly Varner. So I taught all the typical manifestants of God's stuff. But he also is playing Fitsy with the identity stuff apparently. I still have more to do on that. Well, so here we go, five in the idea of perfection.

And this should sound fairly familiar to folks that are aware of what the narrative is up to. Five said quote, the second coming is in and through the select the manifestants of God. So you could take out manifestants of God, if you think that's too controversial.

And you could take out the whole second coming is in and through his elect. And just use those words in and through. And I've heard that from everyone from Sam 5 up on through the Kingdom message folks and on to Bill Hammond in and through.

Look out for that phrase because there's a world of hurt coming through that little phrase right there. Five also said this quote, our responsibility is to recognize the plurality of Christ. Okay, this is talking about perfection because if you accept what I just said, then you're thinking, oh, well, like Jane Leade, we can become Christ, we can become all Godified.

And so on. Here's another one five says quote, his bride has been called to be the channel through which Christ is manifested. Slightly different from the narrows first the wording, but not really, it's pretty close.

And this was written in the 50s and 60s. So hey, it's state around us, lingered in still influence and folks. So this channel that's going to be manifested, five says this will be quote, the manifestation of the sons of God.

And remember, they took this manifested sons of God theology took many different variations and forms. And I think in its earliest phase, it was more intended to be the Joel's Army type of manifestation.

The church will be the manifestation of God. Then what happens is when five-fold ministry took off, you had elite manifestations of God who were superior to your manifestation of God. All the way up to in the end, William Brandham said that Jesus Christ would be...

Jesus Christ would be manifested in a prophet, not a man but God, so the prophet becomes like the king manifestation in that framework. And then after he died and latering split up, you find all these different variations. It's all the same thing, but it's so difficult to trace down because it wasn't one single theology. It morphed and it changed, and sometimes it went back to its original and morphed and changed again as they're trying to produce this thing that honestly, you know, they'll never produce it because it's not even biblical, but they try to make it sound appealing enough to attract people to think that they can reproduce this.

Yeah, and what I'm thinking there is something I heard from, excuse me, Dr. Robert J. Lichten, who is one of the big sources if you're trying to study thought reform and how that works in religious cults, but he stated that prophets, and he's not referring to just latering or whatever like that, but he's saying these folks that are prophets who have these proclamations can become impatient, and so they're saying, okay, we're going to be the manifest sons of God.

This would actually be a case in point with St. 5's group. Never happened. He dies in a plain crash, and so they regroup and have to say something to explain what happened. Excuse me.

Same thing happened with John Robert Stevens, another latering prophet who pulled off and made his little cult of church, the living word, also known as the walk. He claimed to be the, he was like the spearhead that there was going to be manifested first and then draw everybody into it.

So the idea of weighting, tearing, praying, hard, pulling yourself aside from society, becoming pure so that you can be the elite, that part, I really think there's a dividing line where all this stuff is off to the side and dangerous and destructive as it is, but the more generalized idea of, excuse me, what you're probably hearing more in the NAR, more generalized idea of becoming complete, being Christ, representation on earth. But if you really look the way they're saying that, it's just another repackaging of what we've already seen in the earlier days.

And you're right. I would say like you did, that that's, it's morphed. It's morphed into numerous different variations. But if you pull it down to that in and through before Christ, you automatically get perfection. If you look at scriptures about that, you get dominion. If you talk about man's child and other scriptures.

You also get the purge part of it, because that's gotta be done before Christ can return to a glorious kingdom, which he will receive. So following up on that, the notes I have here about a five in the sacred purge.

So here's what he says, he says, quote, the power to carry out this judgment, they quote, will not be given to the sons after Jesus returns. It will be given to the sons of God before he returns.

So change that around, say whatever, it really doesn't matter. If you had that as your basis, and then you can generalize there, and morph it in other ideas, that's pretty much the bottle wax, what it is right there.

He also says this, quote, during the ministry of the sons of God, the quote, wicked will be cast into the wine press of God's judgment. Again, it's not God, angels. Actually, he's referring to revelations 14, I believe, right there, where it talks about, and here he does quote, and he says, the angel with the sickle in his hand will thrust in his sickle and reap.

Okay, well, that's, it's in the Bible, it's kind of a hard saying. It's the Jesus disciples said to him once, when he talked about, you know, you must drink his blood and eat the bread of life which he has, eat his flesh, excuse me, Texas allergies.

So, he's quoting the Bible, but then look what he says next, five says, quote, this represents the angel of the sons of God. Okay, so angel has been turned into a metaphor, and then equated with the sons of God, who come into perfect union with Christ.

I think this for me is the scariest part because history repeats itself. If you look what happened with Christian identity, and then get up into about the 19 late 50s, early 60s, you see people enacting these things because they've been manipulated to believe they're the ones who are to do this sort of thing.

And it was a religious purge that they were doing. It wasn't simply just whites and blacks rising up and having a race war. It was men pretending to be Christian, telling these people that this is the Christian thing to do and we need to take charge.

We need to be the ones to execute this. And now, I mean, it just blows my mind. We're in 2024 and we see the same exact things being said. Now, you don't see them acting out on it yet, but there was a time before they actually did in the 60s where these men were saying exactly what they're saying now, and then they acted out upon it.

So for me, this is very, very problematic. Yeah, it's on problematic as... right word, and excuse me. And so Robert J. Lifton has written about this and possibilities of people getting impatient. There's a fellow that haven't really done a lot of research with him, but Travis Law, I believe it's his name.

He was writing about QAnon and he said, this was before January 6th, the insurrection. Travis said that people in QAnon could become impatient and attempt to make it happen. And Robert J. Lifton, Dr. Robert J. Lifton, calls this action prophecy.

So there's the prophecy, but then, okay, what's happening, nothing's happening. One of your prophets says, okay, today's the day we've got to make it happen for God. And I think you probably be aware of this, but those who quote from Wesley Swift, and he clearly says, he's talking about the judgment day.

He says, you know, we don't have to wait for the angels to do all this. So again, he's talking about the same kind of garbage. And so that leads me to just kind of a review of who's been influenced and who's saying these kind of things.

So I just was calling it the three and one kingdom principle perfection rule, encouraged before Christ is allowed to return. Okay, so like the Nar prophet Bill Hammond, five said quote, Jesus is never going to do anything.

They does not do through the rest of his body. Okay, somebody not aware of scriptures or not aware of the movements and the people we're talking about would say, okay, that's the kind of idea you hear people say, we will be the, or we are the feet and hands of Jesus to do this work here on earth.

That's all good and fine. But when you have this hands on eschatology and you think that we're going to become perfected in some sense of the word, they will rearrange that to other ideas.

Or otherwise, if expressing that, we will rule. And that gets into the taking dominion of C. Peter Wagner's calling it the seven mountains. And it also means the sacred purge, the five and these others are saying, will happen.

Yeah, not necessarily a massing guns yet, but the idea is present. And there's a scholar, I'm trying to remember his name.

But anyway, he said the same thing that given the opportune moment in history, like you were saying, we need to learn from history. Like George Santiana said, or else we're going to be doomed to repeat it.

This scholar also says that, he lists all these. But it's like Christian identity and Nordic paganist groups and groups like the manifest sons of God teachers. He says that all of these, given the right circumstances, like the perfect storm that happened and Nazi Germany in the 30s, he's saying that those things can be reenacted if they have all the right things in place.

So we can figure out that's economic problems, threats of war, leaning way way to the right, becoming more fascist-oriented in certain ways of carrying out things. So anyway, this kingdom principle, I heard this numerous places.

And from some people who weren't quite as extreme as the letter rain guys. So Fife said it, just like Bill Hammond told me this. And here's another quote from Fife. He says, quote, God is bringing forth a many-membered manchild to govern the world.

They will be a, quote, theocratic spirit government order. So when you hear people get on, like secular news outlets and they say, oh, you know, it's ridiculous. These guys don't really want to have a theocracy.

They're just trying to influence society. Well, if you look more closely at CP to Wagner, he takes some of these kind of ideas and cleaned them up, bad pie's done, reintroduced them. And there's quite a few folks in the church at large today who believe this sort of stuff.

Does this relate to the new age? I know a lot of your listeners who might be pretty well versed in some of those concepts. Just listen to this from Sam Fife. And I think new age teachers couldn't have said it any better.

So here's what he says, quote, when he has finished preparing this many-membered man, he's going to purge the earth of every other man by his judgment day. And they will come in a new age and a new earth and a new man living in a new order.

Interesting phrasing, terminology, and this preparing of the many-membered man, you know, there's sort of a tip of a hat to Jesus, but it's all coming in and through the many-membered manchild company. You know, when you take all of the background of why this manchild theology exists and then take all the leaders in the NAR today who are still teaching this theology, albeit some of them through different names, it's the same theology.

It really just, it makes sense chills up my spine because this is what we saw leading up to the problems. that happened in the 60s and look at the way politics is being played out today.

I avoid discussing politics on the show, but it doesn't take a bright man to see what's happening here, especially whenever you see such a evangelical presence in politics, not that I'm against evangelicals, but what they're doing mixing their theology with politics, maybe it's not that bad, but now take, enter in this manchild, some of those people who are influencing political leaders also have this manchild theology.

And that is the recipe that it scares me. You know, it creates problems for me to sleep at night, thinking about how these people can influence things in this way. But Steve, we could go on forever talking about this, and this ties into the Christian identity theme that I'm diving deeply into this year.

So I'm very glad we did this one, and I'm very excited for the next one to come out too. So if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at William-Branum.org. For more information about the dark side of Latter-Rain, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. For more about the converging apostasy, read the converging apostasy, and you can also read the book a quick outline on hands-on eschatology, a matter of timing and agency.

For more information, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain.