Weird Doctrines - Integration of Church and State

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-brannum.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher and friend, James Goad.

And together we're discussing the very weird things that preachers say, why they say them, and how they relate back to the latter-rain healing revivals of the late 1940s through the 1960s. James, again, you have picked a doozy of a topic, one that I, as far as I was going to avoid this at all cost, but in the end I don't see a way to get around it.

The topic is going to surround politics, and we're going to be looking through some statements made by somebody that everybody's going to recognize, even though we're going to hide his face. But the problem is this religion that we escaped was not really a religious cult.

It was a political cult, as I've mentioned, and there's so many ties to politics. And so when you lay that foundation of a political cult disguised as a religious cult, and then you have all of these opportunists that are building upon this foundation that was laid, they cannot help but to be politicized.

And whereas normal people who've never experienced any of this, they go to church on Sunday, they hear this nice grace-filled sermon, how Jesus came to save you, and be good people. On the other side of the fence, you've got this subset of America that are hearing things like, don't vote for this guy, and this guy is going to lead the whole world into destruction, and this guy's working with the anti-Christ, and this other guy's communist.

It's so weird when you think about just the differences in churches, but more strange to me. I can understand this to some extent back in the 50s and 60s when all of this foundation was being laid.

But in today's day and age, to think that this still is going on, and that it is a result of that, just boggles my mind. One of the things that you see in so many of these movements, like you said, the movement we came out of was very much a political cult in its roots and origins.

And you see all these movements today that are influenced by or pull heavily from the movement that we came out of. You see these very deep political ties and all these things that are supposed to be religious sermons have such a political bit to them or they have such a, there's always like a political element to it and it really undermines the very fact that it is what it is as a religious sermon because you know, really what it is, it's political. And you know, it's sad that people use these to manipulate and to try to get a message across. It's like, man, if you want to be

political, go out there, stump for a political candidate, you know, do what you got to do to get whoever you want in office. But when you start bringing it into the political realm and try to manipulate people's religious sensibilities to get them to vote a certain way or get them to lean a certain way, that's very manipulative and it's very wrong to do in my opinion.

Absolutely. And you know, growing up, we heard in my family and many of the, you know, many of the churches in the main sect, you listen to these recordings over and over and over from the 40s, 50s and 60s, right? And you really didn't think about it because the political landscape has changed so significantly that now that is just a historical landscape. And you hear it and this was a historical message for most people. You hear it and you think, oh, that's history and he's talking about history and he's condemning history. But it really changes your

perspective when you stop and think about the fact that this wasn't history for the speakers. You know, William Brannam in my case, but there were others doing the same thing. This wasn't history for them. These were current events and to anybody who's been outside of this and now they're looking to see what's in this weird box that we're opening. You know, just picture yourself in a church where instead of preaching the gospel, they're literally talking about politics and they are taking it to extremes wherein they are very, very, you know, they're very structured in the way that they present one side as favorable and one side is not. There's a strategy behind it.

And think about the people being manipulated in the services who are thinking that they're coming to quote unquote, hear the gospel and they're hearing politics. And in the end, you're just kind of scratching your head thinking, wait a minute, it's like these are political rallies in these churches. These aren't sermons. You know, you start to hear very weird and especially with groups, you know, like the NAR where they've got the very strong prophetic movements and in everything they say, whether they say it explicitly or not, people once they start to see somebody as a prophetic figure, and we know this from our experience and in the movement we came out of when

someone has the level of a prophet or they can speak in, you know, prophetic utterances. People start to look at everything they say as though it has just a little bit more importance than everybody else around them. Because that person, maybe they're not speaking in the realm of a prophet there, but the prophet tends to have a closer sort of pool with God, because he's getting direct communication from God in a way that normal people aren't sort of getting, so it really muddies the waters. And so when you've got these people purporting to be prophetic figures or having prophetic words as they like to say, or just a word sometimes, depending on

it gets kind of muddy and how they sort of talk about it, because they never quite commit to this as a prophecy or this as whatever. But yeah, so you see these things going on, and then when it starts moving to the realm of politics, start talking about things that are going on in politics and this and that, it sort of uses that sort of prophetic sort of wolf and sheep's clothing sort of thing, because it's like getting in under your defenses to sort of get this messaging by you and to get you to sort of accept it and just go with it and don't

really question it too much. But yeah, rolling into this first clip that we have here, one of the things that, and this isn't a sermon, this is a podcast, but you've got this one minister is bringing on somebody who is doing this work and the thing that they're going for here is talking about how this man's work is trying to convince people to be what they call grace ambassadors. And you know, it doesn't sound like such a bad thing, but one of the things that you see going on here is that they're talking about manifesting the kingdom of God on earth, and then they start

talking about, you know, taking your role and taking it into politics as well. They talk about, you know, using it in the, using any community and things like that, but also moving into politics.

There's always this political sort of bent to everything. It's like because, you know, if, you know, we've seen it in so many times, if you have a religious fervor behind a political movement, it can almost be unstoppable. And so that's why some of these things, you got to be very careful and look and see what's really going on with some of these things because, you know, it can quite get quite dangerous really quick, but let's roll into this clip and dissect it a bit.

We're just trying to create young men and young women, and we also have graduate programs, so sometimes older men and older women to just be world changers for the glory of God. Yes, you do. Okay, let's talk about grace and bastard are bringing heaven to earth. First of all, what does it mean from your perspective to be an ambassador and what does it look like to be an ambassador to different spheres? So let's get down to brass tax. What does it mean to be a grace ambassador, an ambassador of heaven?

an ambassador of the kingdom of God, the king of kings. What does that mean? This is what it means. There is no such thing as a sacred, secular divide in life. If you're a follower of Jesus, you're an ambassador of His grace. Every atmosphere that you step into, could be your home, could be your neighborhood, could be the cubicle at work, could be the delivery truck you're in, could be the halls of the governmental agency that you work in, you carry the presence of Jesus.

You are never off duty. I know that's scary to people. You're never off duty. The Bible says the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead lives in you. So when you step into an atmosphere, you bring the atmosphere of heaven into that setting. Now what is it? How do you do that?

Sometimes it's the way you love people. Just love them in the name of Jesus. Sometimes the way you serve them. Sometimes it's the words that come from your mouth. A redemptive speech ends up drawing people into the heart of God and they say, well, something's different about you.

Chris, I really believe we're in an era where people are desperate to know what does it mean to follow Jesus? They're desperate to know. What does it mean to be a Christian? Are Christians really mean, angry, condemning, and judgmental? Like we often get portrayed? Or are we the redemptive, loving presence of Christ in the atmosphere in which He's placed us? And I believe, Chris, the world's ready. The world's ready for Christians to get out of the seats of the churches. I'm glad you're there, but get out of the seats of the churches and take Jesus into the Walmart,

take Jesus into the government center, take Jesus onto the police force, take Jesus into every atmosphere you go, because you are an ambassador of His love, His kindness, His care, and His truth. What does it mean? This is such a weird, confusing mess, man. I had to listen to this a couple times just to understand what the guy was trying to say, because what we were in was the foundation for this, obviously, but it has changed so significantly from the laterane movement that this developed from. But what this is essentially describing, this is the concept of dominionism,

where a politically charged Christianity or Christian ideologies are supposed to bring heaven down on earth. And we're going to rule and reign us Christians over those people who aren't our kind of Christians. And that's where it gets really weird for me. And that's really where you see the roots of this go back to the laterane, because it is an us versus them mentality, even severing the body of Christ to create this political landscape. Now, this in itself isn't so much a politically charged quote, but I think where you're headed, this lays a good foundation for where

we're going, because this concept of bringing heaven down on earth, I think that's one of the phrases that are commonly used, they believe that they were bringing heaven down on earth. Earth first, and we're going to rule and reign over all of those weaker Christians.

And, you know, obviously the ones that aren't Christians. This ideology is prevalent in the movement. Right. And, you know, it's something that, you know, like you said, there's aspects of this that you can say, oh, well, you know, I could see, I could see this or I could see that.

But when you look at the larger context and how a lot of this stuff sort of manifests itself, you usually, it usually doesn't manifest itself in great ways because you get central figures pushing people to be hyper religious, hyper focused on this political movement.

And we've seen all sorts of examples throughout history where when you get a central figure, hyper focused and using for political ends to get people whipped up in the sort of religious frenzy, pseudo religious political frenzy, you can have people do all sorts of things in the name of God and the name of whoever to achieve what people believe is a righteous end.

And, you know, if it stays just, hey, you know, just being a good Christian, just, you know, you know, promoting good things and, you know, being an upstanding pillar in your community and sort of, you know, being just being a good person, then I don't have a problem with that.

I think that that stuff is all great stuff and everybody should be striving for those sorts of things. In any way, shape or form, you know, to be a strong pillar of the community.

But there's so many instances that we've seen, especially lately, where it's used and weaponized for an extreme political end and it doesn't usually just stop with being a good pillar in your community. Yeah.

And it's so subtle too, man, because, you know, escaping this thing and trying to wrap my head around, okay, what parts of it were good, what parts were bad, what parts are biblical, what parts are not.

This is one that's very subtle and very, I hate to say it, but it's quite, you know, manipulative because while the Bible does say that we'll rule and reign with Christ, I can't remember the exact passages for this, but, well, there are statements that suggest that there is a rule and reign and Christ will rule and reign.

What they're doing is they're adding the notion of subordinates. There isn't really any Bible passages that describe us as the elite people who have dominion over the lesser or weaker Christians. And that was really instituted during the presence of the latter reign because they use phrases from the Old Testament where, you know, they're talking about the 144,000 virgins, for example, different things that they could tie both to the Old Testament and to the New Testament to suggest that there were an elite group of Christians and there were an apostolic state group of Christians and the elite

would take dominion over the non-elite. And, you know, again, you hear the statement that this guy has made to the casual, normal, listener, they're gonna think, okay, this sounds good. You know, he's saying be good, be a good representative for Christ, but when you get down into the weeds of what he's saying, one of the phrases he says is, you could be in the halls of a government agency that you work in and you carry the presence of Jesus, you're never off duty, which is good.

You know, don't get me wrong, be a good person, no matter where you are, but the fact that he's specifically saying in a government agency is making an appeal to those who have the influence of government.

And it's very subtle, it's very deceptive, and quite frankly, it's very wrong what they're suggesting that you do. Yeah, and I think this is why one of the things that we've seen attacked a lot is the separation between church and state.

Because one of the things that, you know, and I'm gonna try not to get too political on this, but it's just, it's so hard when these two things are woven so closely together. But the idea of a religious state

sounds really good when it's your religion and your guys are in control of the state that you're part of, but if it's not your religion and it's not your state, if it's not your religion that the state is promoting, then very quickly you become the other and you become the guy that's not so wanted in the society.

And so that's why it's very good. Like, hey, bring your morals. Bring, you know, keep God in the forefront of your life and be a good person. If you're in a political realm and you're voting your morals, voting your conscience, things like that, I don't see a problem with that.

But if you're trying to install heaven on earth in your image or the image of your movement in such a way that it causes you to control other people, that can get very scary very quickly.

And I think that, you know, one of the things that, some of these things, especially when you get into the political realm, some of these things can't just be set off hand. You, people have to be responsible and really explain what they're talking about because if you're not careful, you can just say whatever and then you can let people manipulate that and move it and understand it in whichever way they want.

And sometimes that's intended and unintended depending on who's presenting it and how they want you to actually accept it. But yeah, I think that that's one of the things that can be very dangerous when you start to mingle religion and politics in this way.

I mean, and like I said, we've seen all throughout history where you get a very hyper religious state that usually tends towards persecution. You should know people who don't line up with their religious ideology.

You know, that's exactly right. And you know, you can identify these types of sermons that are politically charged, just simply by how they focus on the current events. You know, we've been to normal churches now and you go and you listen about what Jesus did for you back in the day, back in the days of Jesus.

But it was so different than hearing about, you know, what the politicians are doing, what the Congress is doing, what's going on in the nation. And those types of sermons are specifically designed to hold you captive by instilling a fear of the impending doom based on the current events in most cases, not in all, but in most cases.

I know that in what we escaped many of the sermons were, but what was really uniquely odd about it, since most of what we heard were recordings from the 50s and 60s, it was for days gone by.

But we did attend sermons where, you know, attend churches where there were sermons talking about current events. And that's where really where this gets key. So you lay the foundation that this dominionism is coming and you get all of these people to believe that you people are better than the other Christians and you're bringing heaven down on earth.

We're going to rule and reign. We're going to be installed into the governments. So as the new political leaders, the new political rulers, you need to be aware of what are the current events.

In other words, you need to be the decision makers because we can ignore all those people who have been elected into office. That's really, if you follow it up to its logical conclusion, that's where it heads.

And I think now that we've laid this foundation as we go deeper in this episode, you're going to start to see that there is this theme where they're taking the people's minds and they're hijacking them and pointing them towards all of these different current events to try to instill in them the vision of themselves ruling and making these decisions.

But then they mix religion and politics, just like you said. And they're making their decisions based on a clear union of church and state, which is the opposite of what this country was founded for.

Right. And like you said, the country was founded, it's a freedom of religion, not freedom of religions to control your life.

There's been so many places where a state has had a religious entity that has been sort of at the top in these sort of like this is our religion and you obey it. And people go, no, I want to pray in this way or whatever.

But it's like, we don't do that in America. We say if the Muslims can have their mosques and the Christians can have their churches and as long as everyone's abiding by the laws and being good people.

We don't care how you worship Yeah, just go do you But yeah, no, it's it is crazy when you start to see you know, especially some of these hyper-political You know talking points that get brought up and and you know and The thing about it is is is I don't want to take a stance on any of this stuff because I don't think it's I don't think it's helpful for the for the discussion because you know the at the core of it it's you know

Is this church or is this a political rally and I think that's I think that's the that's the distinction here and you know if it's a political rally then then Notate it that it's a political rally and this is what the purpose of this gathering is But if it's if it's for church then let's talk about church things and like you said and and and and I have A ton of examples for this as well just you know even if it's not the political side I know from my time in the cult that I came out of that

There was so many times when the sermon was all about the People who were coming against the movement and all these sorts of things like that and there was very little Anything in there at all that was substantive for me as a person as as as you know my walk with God or anything like that and it's like you know What is really the purpose of this meeting here?

Are we here to talk about the politics? Are we here to a bash the outsiders or are we here to actually talk about God and talk about being better people and and and Encouraging people and and all these sorts of lifting each other up, you know, but Getting back on to this clip that we're rolling into here You know, there's there's so many things that there's such a fury of different things that that come out here And this this minister is speaking, you know and and None of the people In this movement so far have been able just to say hey, you know my opinion or this is great or I think it's

God spoke to me. I heard a voice. I have a prophetic word. It's all these there's all these hyper Charged keywords that are at the beginning of everything that they say to attach so much religious importance on to it and so and In these types of movements those things that's what the people are looking for to hear because that's what the movement is built around people are looking to hear These prophetic and important people promote, you know, speaking these prophetic words or speaking these very hyper You know God spoke to me sort of thing and that's what they're there to hear and so people are really receptive to that stuff and and the speakers

appeared also know that as well But you know, it's But you know you get into all this stuff and You know listen to see what's going on and just listen to the the things that the things that keep coming up over and over and How they keep you know presenting everything and then they also like you also going back into what you said talking about how they Talk to the people as though they're open up the floodgates of heaven and they're dispensating all these gifts out onto the people, you know, they're giving out the gift of prophecy and they always do this in their prayers and they're always

talking about how they're just they're bestowing it upon everybody and you know, you get a prophetic gift and you get a prophetic gift. You get a car. You get a car. You get a car too. Exactly.

That meme will never go away. But yeah, no, and it's you know, it's in one sense,

it is what it is. But in another sense, it's like people are being like you said told that they're special. We're giving out these prophetic gifts. We're giving out all these things. You know, we're we're lifting people up to these special status and we both know from what we came out of what this special status can do to people's minds and how how it can be manipulated and used to get people to think and act and treat people in such a way that is not so good in the end.

But yeah, let's let's roll into this clip here and then we can start dissecting it a bit further. So transformation of society. So anyway, so we are now starting to see real transformation in April of last year. I think it was April 12 because the Thursday morning right before Passover Friday and Good Friday and then Resurrection Sunday, that Sunday.

I what I do is I journal my prayers. I like to journal it and I've done it often on for years and I've done handwritten journals to typing my journal right now. I'm typing it. But you know, but mainly because a lot of times I have prophetic dreams and I want to write down the dreams and remember it. And so the the weakest thing is stronger than the greatest memory, right? And so just write it down. And so I'm journaling and I hear the Lord say to me in a small still voice, not the audible

voice, but he told me that I'm entering into an epic season of transformation and didn't see for me personally, but he was saying the body of Christ were entering into epic season. Now for me, because I've been involved in the pro-life movement, the call by the way all the prayer, gatherings and stadiums was to focus on returning over Roe v. Wade. Anyway, I said, okay, I'm need of science or rain. Then that Monday, a federal judge in Florida said the mass mandate and public transportation is unconstitutional. The Congress has to make a decision. It can't just be

CDC making this arbitrary decision. And how many of you travel? How many of you shout out for joy that you don't have to wear the mask anymore on planes? Come on. And even YouTube called it, people are the captain made their announcement as people are flying and they just saw people just throwing up their mask and celebration. And so that's the sign.

Oh my goodness, we're seeing a breakthrough. Tuesday, Elon Musk buys Twitter. And all of a sudden, we have hope that pretty speech can be restored because you know, they were counseling even President Trump on Twitter and he said the first thing he said is going to restore Trump's Twitter account You know James I would feel so blessed if I were to show up in my Best Sunday clothes and sit down with my family sit in the pew and open in the prayer and then suddenly hear a sermon about Elon Musk

Oh, it's crazy. It's crazy man. I mean to think you know and that's not the only thing that the guy said I'm I'm certain and you know you shared with me just a portion of this I can't listen to the whole thing. I'd go nuts if I if I tried to subject myself to it But you can tell clearly that this is a sermon that is focused on current events and That is a tool for manipulation pure plain and simple. It's a tool to manipulate people Because you're you're getting the people's minds to focus on the things that they can see as milestones of today

Then in the sermon, whatever you say associated to what is your agenda? The people when they get out away from the church and they see these things happening in the world Then suddenly their mind is associated with the religious things that they said so it's a tool for manipulation and it's a I mean, it's just a common trick of psychology to be you know to be blatantly honest Now there are times in which you preach a sermon and you use an example so you could talk about In the Bible we find such and such and then here's an example of how we could do better as a people

But it isn't like that. It's literally these are the bad guys You're going to have dominion over these bad guys and go rule the world Yeah, you know you see this stuff sort of moving in sort of the political realm And you know you see some of this stuff more in You know right wing circles, you know because there's always this talk about getting the evangelical vote and you know I you can you can see certain people when they talk about it. They get very giddy You know and if you think about it from a political standpoint, you know if people are just looking at from the realm of politics to get the evangelical vote

You know, it's that's just business like we're we say the thing to get the people on our side to get them to vote the way We want we win we get our guy in power our guy our girl in power whoever it is we get our bill passed whatever it is But you're a commodity being traded in that atmosphere and in that realm, you know, and it is what it is It's it's it's on its face. It's neither nefarious or or or you're good or evil But you know you got to understand what's going on

So when things start getting in the realm of politics people use the religious thing to say okay You know, we're gonna vote this way, but if there is a political movement behind it saying hey We want the evangelical vote. Let's get them. Let's get them to see these things and and and agree with these things grew vote this way, vote these people into power, and people think they're doing it before a religious reason, when in reality, they're being manipulated because of political punditry that's putting pressure on these groups or these people or whoever, and maybe the people

are just in line with it. Maybe they just agree with the same thing. They're like, hey, we're in full lockstep. This is what we want to see. So we're just going to repeat these things, whatever. I'm not. They're attributing mouths or motive or whatever. But it's one of those things that when you get caught up in the realm of, this is how God wants us to vote.

And you're not asking questions. Why is it that the guy that I'm listening to says God wants us to vote this way, or this is how God's moving, and this is the way God wants us, because we're talking about politics here. We're not talking about religion. They're two completely different things. And when you mix them, it gets very confusing and it gets very muddy. And it's really good to stack its step back when someone's saying, hey, God is on the side of XYZ candidate, or God is on the side of XYZ issue and say, okay, why are the people saying this? Are there any

outside pressures to this? Or is this just completely their opinion or whatever? But that's not what's going on here. It's like God, the still small voice, not the audible one, but the inaudible one, you know, was saying, hey, there's a season of transformation coming here. And then he starts talking about the rovy way and all this stuff, you know, and it's like there's this air of spirituality against, and it's like, God, God is on the side of this. God is, this is what God wants.

And if we're good Christians, we're going to go in this direction. So things get really weird, and it's just like, you know, you got to be really careful. Because like I said, hey, vote the way you, you're going to vote, vote your conscience. You know, that's a, that's a sacred thing. You know, you go to the ballot box and that's something as a, as an American citizen, you get to do and you get to go to that ballot box, say, no, I don't care what anyone else says. I'm voting the way I want.

I don't have to have anyone to control my vote. No political party control my vote. I vote my conscience in the ballot box. Hey, that's great. But, you know, when you get these movements saying, God's pushing you this way. It's like, is he? You know, you know, and it's such a delicate subject.

I know I'm going to receive hate mail for talking about this one. So thank you for selecting this quote for me, James. But anything that you mentioned, the people are so politically divided and so politically charged that if you mention a topic that you are as an evangelical, you're aware that every single person sitting in every single pew is going to be on your side.

It becomes something that you can use as a tool to present other things and make them automatically favor those other things. Yet at the same time, anything that you say that I might say, to give critical analysis to their usage of those topics, because they've been so politically charged in the people's heads, it's seen as though I'm the enemy. I'm the one who's—they think of me speaking out against it. Roe v. Wade is one of the big things, right? I would say probably, if not 100%, at least 99% of evangelicals are fully against abortion. If

you're an evangelical, that's one of the things that defines you. That's fine. I'm not going to say, you know, in this, I'm not going to give my opinion one way or the other. I think everybody knows where I stand on this, but not going to give it. But the problem is, they're using it as a tool for manipulation. If you point that out, suddenly you've got this uprising of people that see you as the enemy because, oh my gosh, our pastor just said something about Roe v. Wade and you're criticizing him. You must be the enemy. You must be against us.

That's how politically charged these are. And if you think about that, think about the reverse of that, right? They're so charged that if he—it's like name dropping in the old days, you name drop somebody who's famous because everything that you say next, the people are thinking of the famous guy. Now they're on your side because, oh, that's a nice guy. I like this famous guy.

Well, this guy is dropping Roe v. Wade. Now, every single thing that he says after this, the people are going to side with him. And that's very, very problematic. It has no place whatsoever in a church. You know, this is wrong. What he's doing is very, very wrong. And I take issue with this, especially because of what he said right after that. I have family who died during COVID because of the evangelicals politicized agenda against any form of trying to protect yourself from a global pandemic. Right or wrong, whether you are a masker and anti-masker, whether you are

a vaxer and anti-vaxxer, if your church is telling you and convincing you to make that decision based on religion, which many of them were doing, and this guy apparently was also doing, anytime you mix that with your religion, it's not a sermon about God. It's not a sermon about Jesus. This is a sermon about political strategy and trying to polarize the people against one candidate or another. In this case, I'm not going to mention names because I also receive hate mail. But if you think back during the time in which all of this was happening, you can very clearly

tell which presidential candidate was being supported during this time. And whether you like the orange guy or not, I don't care. The fact that you're hearing it in a church is problematic. This is not the place for politics.

There is a separation of church and state. Right, and it becomes very interesting when you start talking about churches or texts exempt. Yes. Well, they can't, they want it both ways, right? They want you to, anything that is against their religious agenda, they will cry foul and they'll say there's a separation of church and state.

But then they're doing the same thing from the opposite direction and nobody cries foul. Even the politicians, they're against, they won't cry foul because they know that if they touch the evangelical vote, they stand a good chance of losing office.

So this is a very, in our nation, this is a huge problem. Right, and getting back into one of the last things you were talking about there with the COVID stuff, it's like, it's one thing to be like, I disagree with my doctor.

I'm going to get a second opinion from another qualified doctor. Hey, you're getting a second opinion from another doctor. It's another thing to get a second opinion from a religious figure who is nine times out of 10 has no medical background, has doesn't know anything about other than, hey, doctors give medicine and medicine makes people better.

You know, it's like, yeah, it's very dangerous to do that. And I know that I've seen instances where I know of instances in the movement that I came from where, you know, ministers, they had loved ones where they were so afraid of what they thought the evil medicine was doing that they literally took the medicine away from the people who desperately needed it and that person ended up passing away.

You know, and it's like, hey, maybe that's not necessarily, maybe the person was already so far gone that they would have, they would have passed away anything without the medicine, but you have all this fear in a lot of these movements about medicine and medicine being evil or medicine being of the devil or maybe, you know, it's hindering my faith because, you know, if I show God how faithful I am, I'll throw away the medicine bottle and then God will heal me just based on my faith and the faith that, you know, taking the medicine

is showing God that maybe I don't believe that God can heal me. And so there's all these very bad things that can happen when you reject people's wisdom who have, people who are actually on the ground who actually have the knowledge of what's going on who have been to school for these things, who know what's going on inside your body better than you do.

And that's why you go to these people because they have an expertise in these things. And, you know, and like I said, hey, you disagree with the doctor, get a second opinion from another doctor, but it's like, you know, going to a religious figure to get a medical opinion, that is very scary.

Absolutely. And you know, the fact that he specifically mentions Trump's Twitter account. I mean, think of this. This guy has anybody who knows this voice. They're going to know instantly how many people this guy can influence, right?

This is a fairly big name. The fact that he's name dropping Trump and he's, he has now established that he is citing with the Roe v Wade and he's got the people, it's like name dropping.

He's dropped the name. Now everything that he says after this, he can sway the people. Well, in their minds, they have just now linked Trump with the Roe v Wade and right wrong, whether you agree with the abortion rights or not, whether you agree with it or not, this has no place in church to drop the name of a president and try to sway the political vote in favor of that president.

It's just no place for it in the church. Now, again, I'll receive hate mail because I said that. I'm critical of the guy who just named dropped Roe v Wade. But the point I'm trying to make is how powerful that is because of, I mean, the simple fact that I'm afraid if I say this, I will receive hate mail tells you just how powerful that statement is and it's happening in a church.

Now, let's take the politics away from it for a minute. Let's just think about this. He did this. He dropped the name Roe v Wade. Now, everything he says after this is going to be instantly in favor in the minds of the people.

Well, think of the fact that now he can also introduce doctrines. And he can introduce theologies that in, I'm not saying that he did, but he could introduce theologies or doctrines that are anti biblical and anti Christ, if he wanted to, but the people have associated this in their minds.

And so now they can be manipulated into false doctrine because he has done this. All this talk about politics and religion, it really, you know, some of the things you can say, well, you know, this is how they feel.

And maybe they're mixing in their opinions. But when you, but these ministers are always saying, I heard God say God spoke to me. I heard a voice, maybe not the audible voice. Some people say I have a prophetic word and things like that.

But, you know, we're moving into this next example here. And, you know, the minister clearly says, you know, he has a word. Now, it's not so clear if this is a prophetic word that he's giving or if he says he heard.

And it gets kind of confusing sometimes with these guys says they're, they're not always so specific. And I think I'm fairly certain that's by design. But, you know, but he goes into and he talks about how, you know, this political thing that's going to sweep the nation and things like that.

But let's, let's roll in. Let's hear what the minister has to say and then let's dig, dig in a bit further. This is the beginning of a tipping point for government. And I heard surprise candidates win in the northwest of our country, setting off a chain reaction. I don't know anything about geography.

So I don't even know where that's at, but northwest, somewhere, northwest. Those of you that have. No one to pray for, he could just be praying into that revival of in government coming from the Northwest.

From the Northwest country, man. Can you imagine during the race for president when Barack Obama was running from, you know, for president? And suddenly, if a democratic preacher were to stand up and said, I have a vision and somewhere near the great lakes would be this senator who would rise up and I don't know my geography very well.

Every single evangelical would just go nuts, you know, that fraud. I cry foul on this guy. He's a false prophet, he's making this almost said something bad there. And, you know, but on the flip side, it's very interesting that you don't see everybody else just rising up and crying foul when these guys do this.

They just kind of know, okay, that group's insane. Let's just ignore them. It's just, man, it's so wrong. And they're, again, they're mixing, they're mixing their religion and their politics. And now they're trying to sway the people's minds towards one candidate or another in the church.

And every single church that's affiliated with this, now they're pushing their political agendas. And I can't stress this enough. Religion and politics do not belong in the same building. Like I said before, history is bore out that, you know, when you get a hyper politicized religious state, things don't always work out good for people because, you know, nine times out of 10, you're not going to be the guy that's in the religious group that states, you know, promoting.

So it's like, and depending on the, on how things go, you know, it might not work out so well for you. So I think the best thing is to have a government that is, is just like, hey, that's kind of a sort of laissez-faire.

Just be like, you know, hey, you know, you can have your church and you can have your church. You all can, can, can, can believe how you want to believe as long as you're Biden by the laws.

Everybody's happy. Everybody's free, which is a very important part. Everybody's free. And then we can just go on about our business and just learn how to integrate better as a society and as people and, and break down.

A lot of these old barriers that, that have been propped up that, you know, we don't need anymore. You know, I mean, there's, there's so many situations where, you know, it's, these things are used to divide people for political reasons.

And there's so many things that should have died out a long time ago that keep getting reinvigorated because it's expedient for a political purpose. And this happens on both sides of a political debate. And the thing about it is that, you know, I mean, there is, I, the more I, the more I look at it.

I just can't see how you can cleanly divide a political subject down two binary sides left and right and that completely, you know, I know me personally, there's not a, there's not a single political platform out there that completely is 100 percent me. It's too, your people are too complicated, you know, and it's like, it's like, I mean, if you're just 100 percent left or 100 percent right, you're more likely an ideologue than someone has actually thought through the issues because it's, it's, it's more complicated than that. But when you look at these religious situations, that's what they're promoting.

It's like, God said this, God is on the side of this and this is 100 percent God, whether it's left or right, whatever it is, whoever's political faction and they're pushing this thing as though this is the truth 100 percent. You don't have to question it. This is just what it is. You know, and by the way, we've got a, we've got a political movement rising in the Northwest, somewhere, somehow, I don't really know. But, you know, hey, God's on this side of it, you better be praying for that. You know, I'm not really going to tell

you where this came from, whether it's me or whoever, but, you know, be should be praying for it, you know, when to bring the kingdom of God down on earth and all the stuff, so really be praying about that stuff, you know, because it's totally legit. Trust me, 100 percent.

Yeah. And I mean, think of it, they've embedded people in politics. And so there are, there are people who are in positions of power within politics. And they're saying, pray that they have a revival, right? They're, they're literally trying to say, we're going to overthrow this thing. Imagine the reverse of that, because they're not separating church and state at all. They're, they're trying to bring a union of church and state so they can overthrow the state, right? Well, think of the reverse of that. What if all the senators were to say, now we've embedded several people in this church out there in the northwest. And oh, I don't,

I don't know my geography real well, but there's a church out there in the northwest. And we have people of rank and positions and pray that those Democrats in that church have a revival.

I mean, think how wrong that is. They would cry palimatively, right? But they don't care when it's the reverse as long as it's working in their favor. They, they'd have no problem with mixing church and state until it goes against their religious agendas. And, you know, I can't stress enough, it's, it's just wrong. And James, we could, there's enough folks in here we can probably go for five hours talking about how the churches are doing this. And I have some examples that, you know, I'm not going to get into details, but right on their website of some of these

churches, they're talking about wanting to instigate a civil war. It's just so scary when you think of what these churches are doing. And it all is, it's a layer upon layer upon layer upon layer from this foundation that was created in the laterane movement. So we'll drop it here. And if you, if you have questions about this, I'm going to let you not send them to us because I don't want to get into politics, but if you have other questions that you want to have answered on the show, and we're doctrines that you'd like for us to discuss, you can send

this to send them to us on the web, you can find us at William-Branum.org. For an in-depth look at the dangers of being in these groups, you can read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.