Converging Apostasy: The NAR's Secret New Age Origins

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-brannum.org, and with me I have Steve Montgomery, the author of The Converging Apostasy, and a quick outline of hands-on eschatology, a matter of timing and agency, and together we're discussing the themes of apostasy in the new apostolic reformation and its history. Steve, I'm a bit excited for today's episode because even before we had made the the leap between William Brannum into the Laterane into the NAR, we started getting people who

noticed little tidbits of information that I was passing saying, well this sounds like new age, this sounds like this is maybe Brannum was influenced by new age people, and at the time, you know, I had really not studied it a whole lot, I knew Brannumism, I knew Pentecostalism, but I started looking into it and I was like scratching my head, you got to be kidding me, this really does match new age theology, you know, if you take some of the names and change them, etc. And then the further I got into Laterane, obviously that exploded because now you've got all of these new age teachers

coming in and they're teaching new age ideas, but they're calling it Christianity, and then you take that into the NAR and it's like hypercharged, the elements that were Christianity that some of the others kind of confused in the NAR, it's like they prefer the new age over the Christianity.

Yeah, and that's right John, and you know, generally speaking, a lot of people have been noticing different techniques of meditation, digitalization, and so on, that really have their roots more and something that the new age would also agree in is different mystical traditions, but yeah, what you're mentioning, that reminds me of Bill Britton and that bunch of guys, so-called manifest sons of God teachers, because just as Valentinus, who as we mentioned before, is so important to sort of the influences that led to the new age, they have three different versions of salvation. And so people like David Ebal who's also Christian identity related. He calls it the

third salvation. So I know that any of our listeners who were, say, charismatic or just evangelical, they would understand the idea of Passover as born again becoming a Christian. And then Pentecost, of course, says, filled with Holy Spirit and with the evidence of speaking in tongues. So a lot of people were worded. And then there's this third experience in God, which is the feast of Tabernacles, which is to say that God would fully tabernacle or inhabit the physical body. And there should be the the glorification of the body. The problem with that is that in all these

systems of thought, this, this occurs prior to the return of Christ. So you had this, this idea of a group of people, the elite of the church, becoming either perfected, elite,

complete in Christ. And then having this third experience, which will allow them to rule and reign with Christ or for Christ before his physical return. And then to, as we mentioned before, carry out the sacred purge. So I think it's just kind of worthwhile to do a quick reminder of who influenced who because it is. So it's like a spider's web of information. So to keep that straight, I could say this on the Christian, so-called Christian side of the converging apostasy.

You have, if you go all the way back, when you've got Valentinian nozzles and that influenced Jane Leigh. Of course, she was in the 17th century and mystic in the 17th century. Then Jane Leigh influenced several of the latering prophets. And so this is getting more around the time of William Branham and he's coming along and influencing also the latering prophets.

Then the latering prophets have influenced the Narn. That's where they're sort of a crossover because certain folks like, say, Rick Joyner, Bill Hamm and some of the older figures, Bob Jones would have fit in this category. They have sort of a foot in the latering in the Narn. And so that yeah, there's just sort of blurring of that stream of teachings. But then if you go on to the non-Christian or esoteric side of the converging apostasy, you get- start with Valentinian Nostasis, but in this case, it would be the influence that he had on Helena Blavowski, who's so instrumental in getting a lot of the ideas that were

later informed the New Age movement. Of course, she founded the Theosophical Society and did a lot of varieties. 1888 was the secret doctrine, which is a real similar text, almost like the Feast of Tabernacles by George Warnock, was a similar text for the latter. So, then where does it go from Blavowski is in the early 20th century onto the mid-20th century, you have Alice Bating, and she's pretty much the one who started using that term New Age consistently, not just in a generic way. We're going to talk about a new epic, a new way of doing

things. Now, she's very specifically saying something that's estochological, goal or any point of all these paths of knowledge, and Nostasis would be the way they would say it. And so, through both of these paths, the influence of the end-time order of events on the Christian side of the converging apostasy and those on the New Age side are already aligned in many respects, which comes as a surprise sometimes when you find it. But you can add to that, they're also becoming more aligned, and that's why I refer to these two streams of apostasy as converging. I think another good source besides you and me, John, is Bob Dewey, I've mentioned him

before, his last name is spelled DE Capital W-A-A-Y. So, he's seen the similarities between folks like St. Delbretton, who's square in the manifest sense of God, letter-rained, influenced by Junior Lead Haveling. He sees the relation between those folks and Alice Bayley's teachings.

You know, he's a good source, but when I first ran into this next source, I was just blown away. It's really astounding stuff. So, this is good seed publications, and it's run his website, run by Terry and Taiki Crisp, C-R-I-S-P, and they're really interesting, and I think somewhat significant example of converging apostasy. Why? Because they're influenced by Junior Lead's disciples in the letter ring, and Alice Bayley's disciples in the New Age movement.

Right, whenever I begin understanding what nozzles... was the idea that there's a secret knowledge nobody else has and it was this weird blend of pseudo Christianity of the era. I began to be curious how that came about. Why was it so extended by the early Christians? And I was deep into that study and was recommended a book by, I was on a plane trip, on a business trip and I happened to sit next to a psychologist and he and I talked all kinds of, you know, cult-related information. And he recommended a few books for me to read. I've mentioned a couple of them on here already, but one of them that,

for me, really laid the framework of the architecture of how you can enter new age into Christianity. And he had me read a hero with a thousand faces by Joseph Campbell, which, you know, if you, if you don't know this book and your fundamentalist Christian, this book will probably be very offensive to you. But if you can look past and understand what this man is saying, he's not an atheist, but he is very good at laying out the elaborate scheme that was replicated across all mythologies and their similarities and where it gets a little bit uncomfortable is sometimes he edges

towards, you know, how those, how those relate and are similar even within Christianity, which now you have to decipher what's truth and what's not. But if you can understand the concept that he's creating in this book, he's basically laying out the notion that all of these pagan religions had a physical and a mystical and a metaphysical function. It can't operate without that to be a mystic religion. And usually there was the idea of the cosmos in it. There was usually a sociological function. And anyway, he goes through all of these layers to define what establishes a mythology.

And Nosticism was the merging of all of these mythologies into Christianity. The part that was eye-opening for me is whenever there's some chapters where he's dedicated to describing the similarities between Christianity and some of the some of the pagan mythologies, well, if you think of the Nostics, they could take that interface where there were similarities between the two. And now they could make it appeal to Christians because these Christians came out of these pagan religions and they see something that is somewhat similar very much like the people today who have left a cult and they get, you know, sucked into another cult because they're

so similar. And that really helped me to understand what this was, how new age came to be in Christianity and the whole thing. The doors just opened up by reading this book, Hero with a thousand faces. Yeah.

I'm not familiar with that book, but I have seen Campbell doing different shows on PBS and so on and reviewing some of his other works. As you're saying that there's some of the writings of Carl Jung, looks like it's spelled young, but it's Jung, you know, the disciple of Sigmund Freud.

He was pretty much what you would call a neo-nostic and highly influenced by Valentinus and some of the other no-stakes. So yeah, in that same vein, sure enough, we have the crisp, a taiki and Terry, and they show this merger, as you're speaking of, John.

And so I would say how are they really related to Lateran idea, which is one of the straight ahead. Well, not straight ahead, but more in the Christian, so-called Christian side of things. One way that they're sided with the Lateran is that they say something is very clearly

similar to what you hear from the NAR. They talk about the restoration of the offices of the modern day apostles and prophets, and this is one of the many truths that were revealed during the Lateran, according to them. Of course, some folk in the NAR that are not aware of the Lateran think that they're the only ones that have done this, well, not entirely true. And actually a lot of the, like I said, some of the older folks in the NAR, it's just a continuation of the Lateran. And it seems like I mentioned that in one of our podcasts, there's

who was it? It was one of the NAR folk who was encouraging one of the early Lateran folk that we have to re-dig the wells of the Lateran. In other words, that continuation is some kind of, some kind of ideas. And another thing that Chris talked about is, and of course, you'll relate to this, John, is they say, quote, God raised up men like William Brannum in the ecstatic years from 1947 to 1952, which is, of course, when the Lateran was getting rolling.

And in their writings, this is another connection between Lateran and NAR. They define the term sonship as something that's kind of like NAR-ish eschatology, meaning perfection, dominion, and purge through human effort or human agency prior to Jesus Christ's literal physical return. And that is highly, highly problematic. Not only is it so-called false doctrine, if we get to the sociological aspect or just how- of that impact society, if there was a group of folks who thought they were the elite taking dominion or the Seven Mountains and then seeing themselves as the instrument of God to purge

cleanse society, that's a problem. And another way that they talked about there are pretty much put themselves in the camp of the Jane Leade influence later in Prophets, Bill Britton, and George Warnark, as of they say, Britton and Warnark are quote, worthy of double honor in teaching the foundations of what they call sonship message.

Right. And I think it's very good to point out that whenever many of these themes come in, they're using actual passages from the Bible to reinforce it. So it sounds biblical and you have to be very careful to understand the context of the passages that they're introducing and it's almost like a witch's brew.

They've got a verse here that they combine with this verse and this other book and you mix it all together and now you've got the sonship and I remember, as I was trying to deprogram from this, it was very difficult because I would try to remove things that were unbiblical and I would still hang on to other things that were also unbiblical because I thought it had some sort of foundation in the Bible, but you have to understand that the versions that they're teaching are hypercharged with the notion that there's a mystery that only they can present and that's the new AG part of this.

So the sonship, they want to teach you that the sonship is more of a mystery than this book reveals in the text, this book being the Bible and therefore you have to understand their version of it and with that version, you too can become more than you are.

It's always a more than you are like a cared on a stick. Yeah, and that tells very nicely into the next little section I have here is how are the Christians affiliated with new H.T. genes, as opposed to just lighter learning teachings.

Well, both of them really talk about some form of perfection and so they start quoting people. They quote, actually they quote Helen Blavotsky, which is a bit unusual to say the least for somebody who's claiming to be in a in-time Christian ministry, they also quote Alice Baby and I don't I can't really list it take too long all the folks that they do quote.

But one who did a very similar writing for new H.T. thinkers is Levy H. Dowling and his occuring gospel of Jesus Christ, that was written in 1908, so quote, this is what Dowling says what I have done all men can do and what I am all men shall be. Okay so you know you can hear that in many many locations but it's just very interesting that these folks here they got one foot and a new age one foot and so-called sonship teachings. They also say that they have occasionally come across new age writers interesting who make reference to Rowan's 8 and that is where the

the manifestation of the sons of God comes from and of course yes John that isn't a Bible but the problem is if you look at that scripture in Romans 8 and think that that will be fulfilled prior to the return of Christ then you had that quote hands on eschatology that I keep on harping on which is perfection dominion purge because all of that stuff will come through the sons of God prior to Christ returning and then they say something it sounds a bit ironic to me but they say because of this teaching some might misconstrued that they

equate the beliefs held in the new age with those of sonship yeah it's just almost humorous if it wasn't so sad and why is it so though it's and they say it's because both new age writers and sonship ministries see the manifestation of the sons of God as a culminating event in history and I don't know if you saw this in Wesley Swift writings but maybe I brought that up before but yeah other than being in a Christian identity teacher and an absolute racist Swift did refer to the manifestation of the sons of God is

summarily the culminating event for history another thing that they like to do is they mess with the timelines you're talking about how they were going through the you know the chapters of Romans and one of the things that was hard for me to grasp is the fact that if you read the gospels it's telling the story in a timeline and we read the Bible we read the New Testament and read the gospels after the crucifixion and after the resurrection of Christ but many of the stories are happening before this happen before this happens and Jesus

is speaking to the Jews who are under the old covenant law and so when he's talking about a mystery that's to be fulfilled he's obviously talking about himself to any person who's not influenced by this New Age mess but because that timeline has been shifted and these guys are trying to twist the timeline in your head they will say that now he's referring to another mystery and usually that mystery ends up to be whatever is the minister who's teaching the New Age theology But if you understand the timeline of the Bible and understand that there is a progression of time that's being established in the Gospels

It's very easy to see what these guys are doing whenever they manipulate your heads. Yeah, when you talk about timelines on The first thing that popped in my mind Is something that anybody who's trying to do a reasonable exegesis explanation of scripture You know not trying to insert stuff in it. That's not in there and not trying to tear big things and miss it all together Excuse me The thing I thought about was several people from the letter rain. I'm talking about folks like say

Kelly Varner and actually the you know the head apostle when the letter rain got started that would be George Pardon they both talk about Something from I believe it's Ezekiel 7 or Ezekiel 8 which talks about go through the temple spare knot

Kill off essentially the old men the women the children and have no pity They said even though this is Old Testament They say this is yet to be Reestablished Fulfilled again and and just looking at the plain Text as I mean you wouldn't have to be a biblical scholar to say what the world There's nothing in that scripture that says it's going to be redone and actually William Brennan and a couple of other Manifest sons of God latering types teachers also talk about an Ison safara if I'm pronouncing it properly um The ability to speak judgment or cause death

That will be Reestablished. Oh and actually it registrates me jeng lead also said that That the same power and so what in the world? I mean that isn't a new testament, but there's nothing it says The elite of the church will do that again and yet that's what they think so Another point that the chris sort of aligned themselves with new age ideas is they're they're taken angels And so they say quote because of their emphasis on those who have died in the faith sonship teachers have often been quote accused of teaching communication with the dead and lending support for spiritism

My First response is if it looks smells feels like new age spiritism. It probably is And this just makes another point of convergence at the you know, these two streams are Saying essentially the same thing. It's just sort of a not matter time until you have these go-between sharks and ministries like the chris Of good seed that pull the two things together. Another thing that strikes me on that is the writing by Ernest Ramsey, who I've mentioned it before, who says he has a writing called the Eopentecostals and their amazing UH teachings. He's referring to Britain, Warnock, and this fellow writes

from a purely arranged perspective, like an Alice Betty type teaching. So if you ever get a chance to see that, that's pretty astounding. So I just think of this as just absolute and angelic overload, because the chrysps actually say the gnostic teachers like Valentinis

are talking about the Polaroma, which is sort of like the heavenly realm, the angelic realm. So the Polaroma of Valentinis is very similar to what Alice Bailey calls the spiritual hierarchy. These evolved beings you can communicate with, and she would teach, would eventually become, quote, externalized, which sounds like manifest sons of God becoming manifest in the earthly realm. So yeah, Valentinis sounds like that. It also sounds like what Jane Leite talked about when she talked about spirits of light who were come into union with the elite and the body of Christ, therefore making them all deified and all godified as she words it.

It also sounds like the latter reigns great cloud of witnesses. Now that's very interesting to trace that, because sometimes they bark directly from Jane Leite's wording, but this interpretation of the great cloud of witnesses looks like a wonderful, if you want to say that word, point of entry for for later reign style folks to go into spiritism. And it also sounds, this is amazing when I found this. It sounds directly like the Narproff at Bill Hammons, quote, angelic hosts, who see, he says, are to quote, come and appoint themselves companions.

My goodness, this couldn't be more Valentinian, more J. Leite's more laterane than you could possibly yet. But the Christ take it up to a new level. And this is quite amazing. They say, quote, within each spirit is the desire to reunify with its counterpoint and to become whole again, just to briefly re-assert, where does that come from, Valentinis, Jane Leite, directly from, you can line this up with the teachings of the Satanist, Alistair. I've heard his pronounced Crowley and Crowley. I think that's, it doesn't really matter. But he said some of the stuff about the Holy Spirit.

Holy angels, I'm getting that messed up, but I had said essentially the same thing. Then of course you have William Brandon saying things like this with his sort of buddy Jim Jones in those early times.

And then you hear this stuff obviously from Bill Hammond. Sandy Jacobs also says this sort of thing when she talks about do you realize that you have an angelic companion? I remember the first time that you mentioned Alistair Crowley and watching the comments come in the feed because you don't expect that name to be dropped whenever we're talking about even the NAR or anything to do with Christianity.

But if you study Alistair Crowley what he believed his life, the things he did, it's eye opening because you start to see so many patterns and similarities. And you have to step back and ask yourself why are there so many similarities? Why are these guys doing all the same thing?

And the first thought that comes into your mind is whether copying Alistair Crowley, but it isn't that it's that Alistair Crowley was part of this new age thing as are they part of this new age thing.

And they're copying something deeper because they've tapped into this realm of mystery that obviously sells a lot of books and a lot of speeches that they hold or whatever. But you're right, this fascination with angels and demons, they want to bring it to the surface because it too is this mystery that these things are invisible, you can't see them, you must step out on a leap of faith and believe it.

And they can say anything they want. I mean, William Brantum said that he fought this face, this demon that looked like Aliu from the funny papers. And people actually believe this stuff, man, he literally used the word Aliu from the funny papers.

Because once you've convinced people that there's this mystery they can't see, you can add any detail you want to the story no matter how fantastic and they're going to believe it. Carry that forward into the new age. They've got people who are climbing mountains to try to fight to fight the demons that are governing this region or this territory.

And the people can't see what they're fighting. They just go up and they chant or do whatever they're doing, but they've tapped into this thing that sells and gets people to bring to come in because it is the gospel of the itching years.

Yeah, well put John. The thing about Crowley that, yeah, I think it's his, what do you say? Holy, Holy Spirit guides something like that. I don't have the reference right here, but, but it sounds just pretty much like new.

teachers and the connection, what Jane Leed had that really tight that idea she talked about, some have come in, she called it a correspondancy, a correspondancy with, which is sort of, because probably not a word in current English, but she said that some, meaning herself and others, had come into this connection with sounds like a spirit guide, but just different country, different time. But something about this convergence of New Age currently, and with Norish eschatology, the crisp go on, they have this long list of both, both agree, both say, and they're talking about New Age and, uh, sonship, uh, letter-anaged ideas. So they say, both agree, if we're

talking about sacred birds here, both agree in a, or this is really euphemized, selection process, in which those are a worthy or cold out of society. Uh, and in this context, they mentioned the ballast Ausbaity Influenced Barbara March Hubbard, and she talks about this selection process. She brought, Hubbard was really a very influential person in the New Age, and she was actually on the Democratic ticket with Walter Mondale, uh, which it just blows your mind at somebody with this idea about the selection process would be that close to, uh, getting into elected position of authority.

Um, so the crisp go on, they say, this is a ball print on their website, they say, a New Age to come is, is right right here. And in this New Age gods, and now they're letter-anaged folks, his mini-membered son will bring about everything that has been prophesied.

That is interesting, and it's sort of a, a dog whistle. To me, it's not a dog whistle, it's a far corn, uh, because this is exactly what, uh, Bill Hammond talks about when he says, uh, the body of Christ will carry out the quote written judgments of God. Take a look at Jolti, take a look at, um, revelations, and take a look at Ezekiel, and, and you'll see what he means by the written judgments of God. And then the crisp say also that this elite group will be God's instruments of judgment, and they continue with this idea. If he was ordained and authorized to execute judgment,

we are called to do the same. Uh, frankly, I don't see that, uh, that, that mathematical equal, equal sign, uh, is valid whatsoever. No, it's not. And it sets up the side. the judgment is going to take place obviously by the people, by the NAR, by whatever is the new age group. They believe that they hold the keys to all of the kingdom, and they have established themselves as being far greater than human. And that's the appeal of the new age, right? Especially to people who are oppressed. Because if you take a person who's oppressed

and you tell them, you can be greater than oppressed, you can be, you know, spiritual leader, you can be whatever. Essentially, they want you to become more like gods. They have taught you just like from the very beginning in the Garden of Eden, you too can be just like a God. It appeals to humans for whatever reason. So people join into this thing. And, you know, I grew up with these passages of scripture in my head, believing that that was scriptural to be, you know, it was more than just we wanted to be like God. We wanted to be a God. And yet at the same time,

they twist the text and they twist what they're saying just so cautiously so that they will denounce people who claimed that they can become gods. But they're giving you God-like powers. And so there's this, there's this eternal back and forth, this tug of war that goes on in your head trying to understand, wait, I'm not a God, but I'm like a God. I'm not God, but I can do what God does. And your mind just goes back and forth. And if you are in a state where you have shut off all critical thought, which is usually what happens in these groups, you start to ignore that

conscience. Your mind is telling you something's wrong, but you start to ignore it. And then, at that point, you too become supercharged with this, not just heretical, but it's very dangerous what they're doing. They set up this dangerous idea in your head that you are greater than other human beings who are next to you. So no longer is it, you know, love your neighbor as yourself, I want to conquer my neighbor because they're less than me.

Yeah, John, that's absolutely true. The danger is there. And so I mean, spiritual danger, obviously, but also physical danger to others and this presumption. And that's we've used that term before, cognitive dissonance. I think, yeah, I wrote a poem a long time ago for one English class and they called it cognitive dissonance, you know, like, you're not a longer part of the normal human race who is able to make distinctions of right and wrong. And so, especially Christian should be able to do that. It'd be a little bit more discerning. So, but the crisp really bring up a thing

that can be quite controversial, I think. depending on what your Christian upbringing has been or what you actually believe about biblical passages about the intimes or your eschatology. But what really draws the new age and the narrative together and that is that their timeline, as you were mentioning John, their timeline is such that all things will occur in the intimes in and through the elite prior to the little world.

Prior to the little literal, individual personal return of Jesus Christ. That means that they are in sync with each other and being prepped for whomever returns first. Now that's making some pretty good assumptions. They're pretty big leap right there.

But depending on how you interpret scripture, let that sink in and it might be something to really give you something to think about. But I've explained this to people who are not Christians to say this.

If you have this kind of eschatology and you're thinking of it in secular terms, it sort of promotes the idea of the advent of a dictator and a suppression or removal of dissenters. In a one way of looking at biblical scripture, you could say that this is preparing for a false Christ and the purge of those who refuse to bow the knee.

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You know, it's really difficult, especially because there's so many political ties to these movements as well. Even back in the days gone by, you had the new age centered around political ideas, because especially back then, there was no separation of church and state, so politics and religion were one and the same.

So, carrying that idea forward, It becomes, it seems to blur the lines because anybody who is copying New Age thought, they're copying ideas from an era in which politics and religion were one and the same.

The other thing that we start to see in these movements, especially, I'm not going to name names because I try to keep politics out of this, but in today's world, you see the idea of a dictator appeals to people who are trained with New Age thought. And we live in a democracy where most Americans, most people should be, should frown upon dictators. It's not the way that the world should work, but you start to see people taking a step backwards. They actually would prefer a dictator in many cases because they're looking for a supreme authority and they're looking for somebody who

can lead them like a cult leader. So when you take the New Age idea and you blend it with Christianity, now you've got this weird scenario where in today's world, we have Christians who are supporting the idea of a dictator. And it just boggles your mind to take a step back and realize where this came from, how wrong that is, but then to understand why they're doing it. For me, that is the most eye-opening thing of this entire podcast we're doing today. The fact that they're taking New Age ideas of a of a dictatorship and trying to say that this is where we need to head. Yeah, John,

what you're saying about politics there, the thing that pops into my mind, I mean, just clear within the NAR, you don't even have to look far in any of those teachings to see how that relates to politics and, as you say, unmanageable ones. And it's also clear in the precedence that we're set by Jane Leade, if anybody is thinking, oh, yeah, she just is mystic that may be encouraged, the laterane folks, no, she actually taught on and used the word of reclaiming dominion. She talked about the Feast of Tabernacles, then they'll choose that pretty, pretty stupid. All of these

sorts of things were very prominent ideas in the writings, but as far as New Age specifically, Alice Bailey, who's essentially the most New Age of all the New Age teachers, she said, this is a paraphrase, that the long divorce of politics in religion must come to an end.

She also talks about the externalization of this so-called spiritual hierarchy, when they are externalized there to, as she says, take control of governing entities, governing bodies on Earth. So, yeah, that couldn't be more connected. And it seems to me that one of the scholars I was reading was relating this to Plato's writings that this idea was also present. And you know, I know that Plato can be read on the left or the right or just all a number of ways, but that's one way that esoteric teachings really like him. And so this is the crest again, they said it when individuals speak of a physical return of Jesus, they are generally

referring to his literal return. Yeah, that's true. They say, but to be honest, there is no consensus on this point among sonship teachers. Yeah, that's a problem right there. And they say for this reason, New Age teachings on the quote appearing of the Christ have been confused with those of manifest its sonship. And I say to that, no kidding. They also go on to say that this is very similar to one of Jane Leeds, the Cyples in the Lateran, his name is Jay Preston, EB. The crest also say that we should not be so concerned about how up his coming, since the one who is to come will come in

supernatural power and glory. And this sounds very, very much like the New Age author, Alice Badegan. You know, I've been going through in our weaponized religion version of the podcast of how you mentioned Wesley Swift earlier, how this was building up in different ways that are dangerous, with Swift and Branum. If you look at the theologies of both of these guys, they taught the two-seed doctrine and the culmination of that doctrine, the end of it was an end of day's race war, which they were building up to and we saw what happened in the 1960s, late 1960s. That was basically,

it was their second coming, but it didn't happen. They were building up to people. And I'm not certain whether that they believed that the race war was the final end of day's war like they proclaimed, but they did proclaim it. And so, this thing happened, it fizzled out. Well, where it's really weird is, now you take Christian identity, it all kind of went underground, especially after the investigations that happened after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Well, then it begins to emerge in very different weird ways. You and I have discussed, I think, in this podcast, how in the shepherding movement you had a Christian identity guy that was writing the New Wine magazine, I'm drawing a blank on his name right now, but... Elden Purvis.

Elden Purvis. In fact, I started to research him for the chapter I'm writing on my book. So, these guys emerged, but they emerged in religion, and Wesley Swift was, we don't often view him as a religious figure because he was, there are some very bad things associated with this name, but he was a popular minister of his era.

So it all went underground and starts to come up in the charismatic movement. And so as you build upon the charismatic movement into what becomes the NAR, now you've got these people who are sprinkling new age thought, some of which had racist themes that were coming into what became the NAR.

Yes, so, so Eldon Purve has actually got a chance to talk to him a couple of times. And you know, I would ask the usual questions, you know, what role in the end times with the elite of the church, the manifest sons of God, what role would they have in taking them in and carrying out a sacred purge and all of that kind of stuff, a rulership with Christ.

And he was very vague, he said, he said, the Lord is about to do a great work, it's going to be a sifting, it's a quick work. And so yeah, you can't get much more vague than that.

But one thing that is clear is that Purve is in his new beginnings newsletter, he would list folks like David Ebaugh and Kelly Varner, who are both very tight with Bill Bredin, he listed them amongst all of the clear racist writings, like say, the myth of the six million by I think his name is Hogan, and some other extremely racist sorts of neo-Nazi writings.

And so John, as you know, David Ebaugh, there's rhyme and reason him showing up, and that is because he has clearly taught pre-ademic ideas, and he has been involved in Christian identity. The Varner thing, I'm not so sure, I never caught him in that idea, but it's interesting to see that he's listed by Purve as one of the good guys you can check out.

But Eldon literally started as a latering advocate, and he taught about the manifest sons of God teachings, and then as often happens, because of the ideas of ongoing revelation, and as you rightly said, John itching ears, looking for that next revelation, he then made his way into identity, Eldon did.

And so following those extra revelations to get you into esoteric sources of inspiration, because, again, say that the new age author in a least scaring has occasionally been mistaken as a teacher's sonship. Why? Because she's so similar.

And this shows up taking it straight to the gnar in that the gnar prophetess who in saw plagiarized scaring works. Okay, so, you know, it's that mixing of different ideas but coming out with similar, similar in point.

And so the question is, the sonship teaches the Bibles that the Bible is God's final word to man or whether it's start like that, you can kind of figure where they're going to end up.

And so they answer their own question, they say, not at all, since God is still speaking. So the question arises, is it possible that there might be other writings than the Bible to validate those of sonship?

And their answer is the lost books of the Bible among which were numerous gnostic works is a valid place to see that connection. Well, it just so happens that Swift, one of his sermons, was called, I think that same question, do the lost books of the Bible validate Christian identity.

So what they also get into which is straight up, or what we've talked about before, John, is that the Christians, as they say this, they say, some might suggest that the possibility of a pre-ademic race of man is a valid response.

And it just so happens that the prophets of the letter range or Chaudin and Royal Cronkitt quest are among those who agree in this concept about pre-ademic man. And so what? Well, I found an interesting writing that I'm not sure if you've seen this one, John.

It's called 19th century pre-adomism and Alexander Winchell's racial ideology. That's written in 2021 by Kevin Barrell. And Barrell tells us that in 1878, Charles Carroll wrote, denied that blacks had souls since they were pre-adomites who were indicted by God for the white man and his kin.

Yeah, George Houghton had that idea about, like you've said before, the mud people and so on. And then what a sin it was to have Mongol children out of this unholy alliance if you were to happen to Mary, somebody goes black.

And so what about this kind of stuff on the New Age esoteric sides since we're talking about really three? strange here, the later reign of Sonship kind of ideas, the identities sort of ideas, and the new age, and you can see how they cross over a quite a number of different ways.

So on that new age esoteric side, in 1888, the occultist Helena Blavasky said that, pre-ademic man was quote, the satanic race. That sounds so familiar, but from other sorts of sources. And so I think you're already into this, John, but this brought to me the question of, how does this compare to William Brandon's two-seeds doctrine?

You know, whenever I was in William Brandon's message call, there were certain phrases that he would say that he really didn't build upon them as to great themes, but he would just pepper sprinkle them in to sermons, like they were out of place. One of them was the idea that before Adam there was another civilization, and I can't remember how he phrased it, but it was something to the effect that man might have had feet like a bear and a tail like a monkey.

But he was describing this pre-ademic race. And until I discovered Christian identity, I had no idea what he was talking about. Once you do understand it, and then you start to look at all of these things that he said that didn't make sense to me having being a study of the Bible, it was making sense to these Christian identity people because these were common themes among the Christian identity crowds. And I think that's the very difficult thing to understand.

His audience is different than an audience of today. Take that a step further. You've got Gordon Lindsay who, you know, he founded Christ for the nations, he was part of the voice of healing.

Many of the men who he promoted and supported through this voice of healing movement, they were also Christian identity men. Gordon Lindsay himself spoke at Christian identity conferences. So when William Brannum talks about a pre-ademic race, he's speaking to ministers who are on the platform with him to an audience who is very accepting of these ideas. They're Christian identity themed people, and they're being inspired by a Christian identity movement. What happened after that was many of these men entered into the charismatic movement. So they began laying the framework that very was very compatible with the Christian identity themes. Take it all the way back to his

roots like you did earlier in this podcast. Christian identity through Wesley Swift, through Jane lead, etc. takes you directly back to the new age. Yeah, and I'm thinking, John, there's so many tendrils, so many directions.

It's like a great vine, not a great vine or not a great vine, but it's large, it's whiny, that quite often I think unless you do have a little bit of knowledge of these various inroads, you think they're completely separate.

This is pretty much why I think in terms of thematic issues, the race and the anti-Semitic thought. You can see that in Alice Bayley, clearly. You can see Demblavatsky clearly. And because of them, you can see it clearly through other occultists. But then because of some of the, I mentioned this before, some of the precedents they were set by Valentinus, anti-Semitic thought was then transferred into Western esotericism. And any scholar of that sort of information would easily say that's too simplified of an answer. I agree. It is simplified, but in that people in the esoteric world will cherry pick from Valentinus and develop their ideas in that manner.

It doesn't have to be his old cosmology. If anybody were to go to Wikipedia and look at Valentinus and look at his cosmology, it's so confusing. And people like Blavatsky really didn't bother with that. They stuck with some of his ideas, frankly, of working lead to satanic thought, thinking that Jehovah was the demure and he was the bad guy. And so Lucifer is the good guy.

You can get that. You can also get the perfectionist ideas. You go into the bridal chamber. And there you receive your bridegroom spirit, which causes you to be sinless. Also, connections with folks that think this gives a sample of approval on any sort of, I would say, unbiblical versions of sexuality. They get this from the bridegroom idea. And you also, you just get a host of ideas that are passed on. And I think if people were to look at that flow chart that's been included, John, they will see this. It is over-simplified, but you can see how Valentinus ideas led,

trickle-trickle-trickle, down to Western eras, esotericists, and two-jaken lead. And then portions of it were passed on to the latter, right? In particular, their eschatology of perfection, dominion purge. which then passed on in modified form to the nard, and then because the nard wants to have unity with all those who want to change the nation, bring it back to God, it actually is having some effect on evangelical, non-charismatic evangelical Christians, and then on the purely esoteric side, it's like we're all in the family, this is normal stuff for them.

Yeah, I mean to be blunt, you can make the religions say whatever you want to. Once you can get the people convinced that there's a mystery that they don't know what is, that you know what is, and you tell them the details of the mystery that they can't see for themselves, prove for themselves.

You literally can tell them anything that you want, biblical or unbiblical, and like you say, flip it upside down where Jesus is the bad guy, and you mentioned the bridal chamber, it was sparking all these memories because we were part, there were splinter groups of the message called the William Brannum, the main sacked for the most part believed that William Brannum was going to bring this bridal chamber to earth in the form of a tent.

So as you went into the tent, and you went into this little room in the tent, he was going to give you your sinless body. He himself, William Brannum, so it's just, you know, the whole thing, I laugh at it now because it's so stupid, I believed it because I was born and raised in it, but the point I'm trying to make is you can make people believe anything, as long as you bring this new age ideology into Christianity and then try to twist it to where they both seem to fit.

Seem to fit, it'll never fit, but to seem to fit the people will believe it and what you end up with in the end, it's a different religion, it's not Christianity. So if you've enjoyed a show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web, you can find us at William-brannum.org.

For an overview of the dark side of Latter-Rain, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonial Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. For more information about the converging apostasy, you can read the book The Converging Apostasy. You can also read the book A Quick Outline of Hands-On Eschatology, A Matter of Timing and Agency, also available on Amazon.

For more information, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonial Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. For more information, read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonial Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.