Our Stories: An Interview With Mystika Silverberg

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannem Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannem Historical Research at William-Brannem.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Mystika Silverberg, former member of the NAR. Mystika, it's so good to have you on today. We've been chatting offline, often on now for how long has it been a couple of weeks I guess, and you have quite a story to tell about your experience in the NAR, and I'm very excited to get into this and let other people listen to it. So maybe

it'd be a good idea if you were just to take a few minutes and tell everyone a little bit about yourself. Well, thank you so much for having me. I have been praying for this for quite some time to be able to share my story, but it's not easy to do. It's definitely not easy to do. I am nervous, so I'm letting you know, just like who has guests, I'm a bit nervous, but I'm going to try to relax. Yeah, just thanks for having me on. I do have quite a story. It seems like it's so big, so much has happened. So I really appreciate

you having me so you can help me to hone in on specific details and whatever might help the audience. A little bit about myself. I am a mom of three. I live in upstate New York, born and raised in upstate New York, and I am a licensed mental health clinician, and I love and feel called to evangelism. So really street preaching would be what I feel called to do.

Awesome. Well, there's no need to be nervous. I'm just your average, well, maybe below average guy, just having a casual conversation. So there's no need to be nervous about this. We are you know, as as I've explained before we begin recording, we're starting to tie the links between the New Apostolic Reformation and some of its predecessors, the Laterane Ministry, how that developed from Pentecostalism, etc. And I'm learning that there's just so many different varieties. Are you able to give any details, maybe without mentioning names, but details of the style of church that you were in, the type of the flavor of the NAR that you were in?

So the church I will say is local. I'm in a suburb of Syracuse, New York, and so this is a local church, probably about 15 minutes from me. I don't think I'm afraid to share, but I have friends that are still in this church, and I am sad for them. I am scared for them, and I just don't want to, I don't want to hurt anybody. So I won't share the name of it yet. But what type of NAR, you know, I didn't even know what NAR was. I didn't even know I was in an NAR church. I did not know. I was in a cult. I thought I was in

the best church around. So when you say what kind of NAR church, I'm not sure what that means, but I just know, in general, what new apostolic referment is what it looks like. So I'm learning this as we go, but the NAR is this wide variety. It's like a Heinz 57 religion almost. You've got, you know, everything from on the extreme end, you've got the Christian nationalist and Christian identity folk. Some of them, you know, network through these apostolic networks that build the NAR framework, all the way to the other side where you've got the, I don't know, the Hollywood style lights, cameras, action, mega churches where

they're driving the fancy Cadillacs all the way down to some of the Pentecostal sects, which are still in that same, you know, maybe not the same exact network, but they're all network together through this apostolic network strategy. Are you able to give any details like was it a big mega church that you're in? Was it a small church? What, what would you, how would you describe the church that you were in? Okay, now I know exactly what you mean.

So, because I am actually learning all this in hindsight and trying to catch up on what all this stuff was because, or is, because honestly, I was looking for a simple church. I was looking for a normal church, you know, I was looking just to be part of a church family and learn the Bible and, you know, I didn't know any of this even existed. I actually belonged to a, I would consider it a mega church in this area, not super big, but for this area. It's pretty well known and I attended that church for probably 11 or 12 years. And

then I left. I felt that the Lord was calling me out of that church. So I prayed about it and I left. And then I ended up at this church, which if this is what you're talking about, they believe in the Seven Mountain Mandate, which I didn't learn till way after I started going to it. But yeah, they believe in the Seven Mountain Mandate. So they, they operate from.

were a kingdom church. We focus on the kingdom of God and manifesting the kingdom. And were the elite squad that helps usher in the return of Christ. Although they never actually said those words, but that's what we were. We were like an elite army. As a matter of fact, there was one point where they gave us dog tags. Wow, dog tags. So it sounds like you were in a military platoon almost, you know, that's the subject. I've been working on my NAR book. I've been studying the trail that leads from Christian identity and, you know, actually before that,

it was British Israelism. So from British Israelism, all the way through the Pentecostal movement, Laterane, all the way up into charismatic in the NAR. And I'm learning that all of this ties together, it's not the NAR has really introduced nothing new. Seven mountain mandate, for example.

You can go back through time, through all of these various movements and the way that they were weaponized, religion was weaponized for political purposes. And they had, you know, like the government mountain, so-called mountain, I'll quote it. In the seven mountain mandate, well, they were doing the same thing, you know, back in the 40s and it led to some some criminal trials, which I won't get into in this episode. But John McKinnon and I have been going through that in our weaponized religion series of the podcast. And we've been, you know, we started with the

birth of the Ku Klux Klan, which they weren't necessarily Christian identity, but they fused together with Christian identity. And many of the key players in the Klan were working with key players in the Christian identity movement. And then all of that exploded into the government as being controlled by Satan and the demons are there. And we need to, you know, back then, they said we need to overthrow the government. And, you know, you consider what's happening today. It's a little scary, especially whenever you've got, you know, groups that are giving people dog tags. That's, that's quite incredible. But I've, like I said, I've been working on the new book,

last weekend, actually, I got to the last page. And so we've started the editing process. And I think I can't remember when this, when this episode comes out, but it might come out after the book is published, actually. So we're getting very, very close. But, you know, when you consider all of this from, you know, from the early days of British israelism where they come up with this false notion that the nations of, you know, the North America and the British Isles were the descendants of the 10 lost 10 tribes of Israel, all the way up to Christian churches giving people

dog tags. It's incredibly shocking. Yes, yes, wow. And see, this is fascinating to me because I was never a person that believed in labels or the different, or what's the word I'm looking for, denominations.

I wanted to be part of a non-denominational church. I didn't want to be associated as a Baptist, a Pentecostal, a Catholic. I just wanted to be a believer in Christ that believed in having a relationship with God.

So I didn't, that would be the last thing I would, I knew nothing of the sort, you know? And so yeah, in listening to some of your teachings and some of the history you looked into, I would say that this place, I'm not even sure that you would call it a church, unfortunately, would lean toward the latter reign type.

Like they would have no idea that that's what's come down the pike, but that's what they would line up to in my humble opinion and understanding what the latter reign movement was about. And if you hear noise in the background, that is my son playing a game way upstairs, but he's loud.

So. I wish I was actually up there with him. I, one of the problems I had this weekend is I was, you know, trying to edit my book and I got distracted because I got a new controller and I was playing the old Super Mario Brothers.

So I kept having to stop writing the book to play Super Mario Brothers. Oh, I love Super Mario. Yeah, he's really, really brilliant. And he actually created his own game, which he told me at 12 years old, he's going to be making money off of soon.

I'm waiting for it. So I'm incredibly curious about your being an evangelist in the movement. You know, in the latter reign, there were female prophets and apostles. They had the, you know, the five-fold ministry thing and females were a part of it, but there were groups that developed who were strongly opposed to any female, basically any female who wasn't chained to the stove.

If you really listen to what they were saying and I grew up in the Brannum movement and that's the way it developed, even though in the early years, William Brannum worked with females and female ministers and he even had a female minister in his church, which is another story for another day.

But as this developed into a more destructive cult, he and many others, they strongly began to condemn any female who had any active part in the ministry, not just even being a pastor, like, you know, a lot of them go to that scripture about the female usurping authority, but they took it a step farther.

They wouldn't let the females do anything. And so female evangelist in the movement that I came out of would be taboo. I'm curious, in your experience, you know, dealing with this in the new modernized version of this, have you ever encountered any of that weirdness from being a female?

No, actually quite the contrary. In the the reason of bringing up the previous church that in hindsight looks like heaven to me. I thought it was the worst church in the world once I came to the new church and they actually the new church talked about very badly talked about this other place and said you know they didn't have an understanding of the fivefold ministry they didn't know what they were doing and you know so but in hindsight like I probably never should have left there but I think I'll keep bringing that up because it shows how I was prime bait for the NAR even though they had they weren't trying

to sub-man you know it I just fell into it I was a great candidate because I came out of a church like I said that was rather large I was nobody I attended this place for 11 years they probably didn't know my first name they probably didn't know when I came they probably didn't know when I left they I'd never spoke at this church they never told me what gifts I had or what I didn't they you know it was like I learned I got biblical knowledge and I think the pastor's amazing there still do but I wasn't anyone special I wasn't anyone important and I came from a

life of that so a life of rejection a life of being misunderstood a life of being picked on and cast out and left out and all of that so you take that little girl mystica and then the one that went to this church where I was nobody and then I walk into this new church and this is going to answer your question I promised then I walk into this new church and this isn't even when I started attending I had gone to this church to tell them about a tent revival that me and my friend were

putting on a big tent revival in tolly new york I went around to different churches to tell them about it and invite them so I had just walked in just to tell them about this revival and I walked in and this so-called the puzzle pointed me out immediately stopped everything he was doing and said that's an evangelist wow he had me at that's an evangelist because even though I always believed I was a person of humility that spoke to every feel that was in me if that makes sense it hit everything that I needed as a broken person as a person of church her a person it just was like

I'm a what and you know so he said that as an apostle I later found out he could call out your gifting and I was a not just a person with the gift of evangelism but a fivefold uh sitting in the office of an evangelist And so that I can talk about that later.

So in that place, women were never told they could not be this or that. There was no boundaries for women. Matter of fact, I was never even taught that the scripture said that, you know, women are not to be pastors.

So it was very liberal with a woman could be anything. And actually, so it was like too far to the other end of this spectrum, if that makes sense. So I never thought of myself as an evangelist.

I just did what I did. That was a function of who I was. And that's what I love to do until it's around to do. I didn't know that I had to have some official title, you know, and I didn't know that it would even be wrong for me.

I didn't see myself teaching. I just saw myself sharing the gospel and the streets and leading helping lead people to salvation. Well, and that's the way it should be, you know, people pointing to themselves.

They ultimately, they're distracting from Jesus when they try to point to themselves. And in doing so, they risk becoming a cult leader. I mean, pure plain and simple. So you were wanting to become an evangelist.

You're starting to find your calling. Did you, I'm curious, was this the NAR group that we're that we're working with you and supporting you? Did you get any support from this NAR church? Yes, let me correct you though.

I wasn't wanting to be an evangelist to me. I just had that gift and I was just doing it. It came natural to me. So I wasn't looking to be anything and I wasn't looking for any title.

I didn't even know what five-fold ministry was. I didn't even know what the office of an evangelist was. So it's very good that you want, you had the desire to do that. You know, we've talked beforehand, before we got on this recording.

And I just, I have no desire to be a minister or evangelist. It's definitely not my calling. But you know, it's odd. I grew up raised to believe that it was wrong for a female to do this.

There's great women in the Bible. You've got Deborah, you've got Phoebe. I'm sure you're aware of all the names. But there are so many women that took an active role. And it's very encouraging to see somebody who felt that they had that calling.

So I'm curious though, having been brought into this like you were, a lot of times when people get into that pyramid hierarchy of the five-fold ministry where you got the apostle at the top as the king.

As soon as they enter that hierarchy, it starts to change them in various ways. Did you experience any changes in yourself because of being brought into this? Yes, because like I said, I wasn't...

looking. I was just living my life doing what I felt drawn to do and I was very content with that. So I was already out on the streets. I was already boots on the ground. You know, I was already

in that capacity. I was constantly praying for people, sharing the gospel with people. I was already doing that. And obviously this man knew that I had a gift of evangelism because I was doing a tent revival. So you know, that's not rocket science. Like it didn't take any like God telling him, you know, to know that I was operating in that gift. So he capitalized on that.

When I walked in, he made me stand out in the crowd, helped me to feel very wanted and important. And they just happened to need an evangelist to create their fivefold. So they had a prophet, a house prophet. I guess I'm a little unclear as if he was a pastor at the time or an apostle.

So we'll just say they had the apostle. They had the prophet. They didn't have a teacher and they didn't have an evangelist yet. Yeah, I suppose that would change anybody's life. And you know, the more I dig into the way in which these people have taken the versus completely out of context to make an authoritarian hierarchy of the fivefold ministry where you've got the apostle as a king and you know, the layers beneath him. It's just so odd to me because you know, the word apostle itself, it just simply means a messenger who's carrying forth a message and he's going out.

He's actually doing the work of a postman, a servant. He's a person who is dedicating himself to going out among the people and spreading the gospel to lands that couldn't otherwise get it. And you've got these guys who are building up ministries and plush mansions and you couldn't force them to go out. So, you know, it's odd to me how this is progressed in such an unusual way.

It was very convenient. He was interchangeable to whatever fit the bill. And I always knew him as a apostle so and so because he was also affiliated with, I'm sure you're familiar with healing rooms. We have a healing rooms branch here and he was also part of that. And I went to that as a broken person a couple times for prayer and he prophesied over me. So, it was like, I was being groomed and I don't even know that he knew he was doing that and I don't even know that I knew. I definitely didn't know. But yeah, I just I fit that bill and he I'm not sure

or what he was at the time, but I just know that recently before I left, he made an announcement that was very, very crucial in my understanding what this actually was. And that he was no longer a pastor.

He said this publicly in a service. He was now in a puzzle. He was moving into the role that he already had the title for, okay. So he needed to get out of the pastoral role and we as a congregation were making that difficult for him because he was always getting calls and always having to do the pastoral care and always having to do the counseling.

And he didn't want to have to do that anymore. And so we really needed to let him be what he was supposed to be, which was an apostle. And so he was no longer going to be in that role.

So there was an official, where he officially told us that. So I guess he was always in a puzzle, but just had to be a pastor. The whole idea is just so odd to me and foreign.

Like I said, I have no calling or desire to be this, but some people, this gentleman he may or may not have already had his site set on becoming an apostle because that's the king among all of the peasants in the NAR, the way they set this up.

But once you enter into that structure, that pyramid structure of authoritarian control, so you became an evangelist, they set you up, where you're starting up that ladder. And once people enter that, it's very difficult for them to get out from what I understand.

How were you able to overcome that? That mentality of being in this and how did that affect you? God and the power of prayer. I never understood the power of prayer as much as I do now, as far as people praying for you, because there were people that really respected me and loved me, but saw what I had slipped into, which became a full-blown deliverance ministry, which I haven't talked about yet.

It was actually separate from the church, but they knew what I was doing, and I ended up with a worldwide deliverance ministry, and had people not been praying for me, and had I not had the Holy Spirit in me working and helping me to get out of that, I don't know that I ever would, because I really loved the feeling that I was getting.

The emotion and the feeling that I was getting and the notoriety that I was getting. Even though I never was just so crazy to me, even saying that, because, gosh, I always thought I was a humble person, I actually never wanted to be a leader, I never wanted to be on front street.

I never want to be on camera and none of that. But as this was going over the years and building and building, it was like, okay, yeah. And then I started to be able to publicly speak and publicly teach.

And I was like, wow, I can do this. And so, but had it not been for prayer and it had it not been for the Holy Spirit, I would still be in it today.

There were a few people that came to me. Once I started talking really differently on social media that were like, yeah, she's finally out of that. And they contacted me and they're like, so let me tell you how I've been praying for you.

And of course, it just put me to tears. I actually had someone mailed me a book great to my house, The Counterfeit Kingdom. It's a good thing. And they, yep, yep. And I have to admit right here in front of everyone that I only read half of it because that's what I do with every book.

I read half of it and I just, I don't know what happens. Even if I love it, I only read half of it. I've been doing so much research. I've read that book. I own a copy of it, but the way that I read is I bet the digital versions of it.

And a lot of times I'm reading just simply by search queries. And I think I've read that entire book, but not in the order in which it was written, but instead by these search queries.

Right, you know, that's true for me too, because I find myself going back to it when I need to and reading parts that I didn't read before. And it's nothing about the author or not being a good book.

It's just me. You know, I just never get through a whole book. It's just my ammo. So, but yeah, there were people that were praying for me. She probably was ready and waiting to mail me that book and didn't know how many years it would take, you know?

So I'm just rejoicing every day that I'm out of that. So you mentioned deliverance ministry, which is fascinating to me. There's so many different ideas of what this is and new inventions of what is a deliverance minister.

And I'm curious for your group, what does that mean to you? When you say deliverance ministry, what does it mean to be a deliverance minister? There is no such thing, actually. And it's so funny because I have, and I was trying to find it before I got on this with you because I was going to read them to you.

I'll send them to you another time. But there were a list of probably 10 things. The whole time I was in this and doing deliverance ministry, that word, I would call it checks in my spirit, like things that make you go, hmm, type things that never sat well with me, but I just kept pushing away and saying, ah, don't worry about that, Mystica, don't worry about that.

It'll make... sense some other time. So even with the deliverance ministry that I got deep into, I would not allow anyone to call me a deliverance minister. And they would try to force me into that. And I would say, I have never seen such thing in the Bible. So I just don't feel comfortable with you calling me a deliverance minister. What I was convinced of, however, is that I was an evangelist.

And because I was an evangelist, I was going to have to deal with demons with people being demonized. And so I reconciled that because it got coupled in with this NAR church, the previous church, had nothing to do with demons. No one in 11 years ever manifested a demon low and behold in their service. And I knew nothing about that. But when I got more involved in street ministry, I was dealing with people being demonized. And then here I got connected with this church who fully believed in taught specifically that a born-again believer could have indwelling demons.

So I'm like, aha, okay, I need to do this because this is going to be what I'm going to encounter. And it just kind of was the perfect storm is like the small version of a long story of how that happened. And once I started doing that, I started to get a name for myself that I wasn't trying to get. And it seemed to be working. There's so I thought. And so the people thought, all I was doing was just messing around with demons all the time. I mean, the demons were very real.

But these people were converts. I thought that they were converts. And they thought they were converts. So I fully believed that a born-again believer could have demons in them. And this church taught that. So instead of the church correcting me and biblical matters and saying, wait, wait, Mr. Good, let's talk about this. This is not with the Bible, said they fully supported that. And it just, if that makes sense, it just became a perfect storm.

And it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. So yeah, I would pray for people not as a deliverance minister because there was that part of me that knew the truth. It was always the truth mixed with a lie. And I knew the truth that a deliverance minister didn't exist. And it always got under my skin when people called themselves it. So like the demon slayers out there on social media, I'd be like, why are they calling themselves a demon slayer? Why are they calling themselves a deliverance minister? That is not biblical. But everything I was doing was,

I don't want to say I wasn't biblical because people are demonized, but people need the gospel. And so when you're translated according to Colossians 113, when you are truly converted, you're taken out of the kingdom of darkness and put into the kingdom of the sun, he is the deliverer.

So that is the deliverance right there. And then what you deal with is your sin there after in your walk of salvation. But I had this all twisted. I thought that every bad behavior was a demon.

Yeah. So if we just get rid of the demon, you'll be fine. And this was completely fostered and supported and amped up by the church that I was meant. I'm convinced that these deliverance ministries is no different than all of these churches. They're just simply trying to create the idea of ghostbusters in the church. But they don't get the cool gadgets. It's so much more fine when people when it gives us something to do. Now you take me, I'm a clinical therapist.

I help people for a living. That's obviously a gift that God has given me, right? So I am by nature a helpful person. And I actually care about the gospel and I care about people coming to Christ.

What a mix. If that gets the little, even a little bit twisted with the wrong understanding of scripture, it can create a monster. So yeah, it was so fun. It was so, you know, John, I got it meant I'm a fighter like by nature. Like I like to fight. I went into the military. I don't know if you know that, but I was actually in the army. And that that is a part of me. I think I have that aggressive side. You know, we all have different parts of our personality. And I think I have just an aggressive side. And that said that aggressive side that I got to fight. I got to

fight demons every day. And I think that's what people like because don't don't we by nature have, well, you know, especially men have an aggressive side. So these demons layers get to aggressively go after demons every day. And it like if that makes sense, that's how I that's how I understand it now. Is it it gives us something to do? It gives us something that's important. It makes people feel like they're getting free and we're helping them to do that. So it just hits all those things. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern

Pentecostalism transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen McCummery, John McKinnon and others with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movies.

movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.

On behalf of William Brannem Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. So I grew up in the Brannem Cult, and we didn't have what we called, quote unquote, deliverance ministers. But we had the same thing. The ministers gave this very fantastic world where everything's a demon. You could accidentally catch a demon if you went outside.

And, you know, for the adults, they're looking to these ministers to be the ones who can help them get rid of their accidentally caught demon, which is so, so odd when you think of it. But for children, for children that are in the movement, this is problematic because they believe the stuff to levels beyond what the adults do, in my opinion. And the children really, really struggle because they fear these demons. And oh my gosh, if I go outside and do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, I might actually get this demon that comes

in my body and then have to go through this horrific process of being exercised or whatever they call it. But I'm curious for, in your movement, is it the same? How does it affect the children? And do they suffer in the same way? Yes. That was a very, well, at the time I thought was so amazing that children got to be part of the real, what real church looks like. Because I had the mindset for so long that the church had to stand up. The church wasn't speaking up. The church was afraid of deliverance. The church was afraid of demons.

And now I was finally part of a place that wasn't afraid of the gospel. See, that's what that became the new gospel was the gospel that had to do with taken Satan down every day.

And the Bible warns us of that. Like, that's a different gospel. But I thought it was the real gospel. So yeah, we were, you hit the nail on the head when you said fear based because that's, that was, that's the underlying thing of these organizations as fear. It's all based on fear. And you're always afraid of getting a demon in you, on you, around you.

It's all, it's, it's Don Hill talks about this. She put it the best way when she said they make Satan sovereign. So they would never admit to that. They look at you like you are crazy. If you said you were making Satan sovereign, but Satan was constantly talked about demons were constantly talked about. Now you have children in that mix, which at the time I thought, what a beautiful thing. How weird is that, right? That I thought that was good because I thought they were getting real life, real church. And that that would help them to grow up to be able to be

fighters for the gospel. So I thought it was an amazing thing. But there are many young children in this place and they are expected to sit through hours and hours of that, of letting what they would call God move, letting the Holy Spirit move and whatever might happen.

So children are constantly seeing demons manifest in people and all of these things. They recently, I don't want to say they don't have a children's ministry because I know that was something that people kept saying, look, we can't have our children sitting through hours of this, not because it's bad to expose them to, but it's hard to keep them occupied. So they might have something going on for the children at this point, but yeah, kids were involved. And my children, I used to bring them to the previous church that I attended, which compared to this was completely normal. Okay. And there was

actual children's ministry for them to attend there. And they were actually learning a lot of biblical truth there. And then I left and I went to this place and I tried to bring them and they were like, mom, what, what is, it looked like a circus to them. I mean, you had full reign to worship, however you wanted. And don't get me wrong. You should be able to worship how you want. But there was, it was so to one end of the spectrum of being so liberal with there wasn't any rules and regulations. So you could be just, you

could be laid at the altar. You could be slain in the spirit and literally laying in the middle of where they were the pastor was teaching. And he would just walk over you, you know, you could be off-brain and tongues for hours. You could be prophesied. You could do whatever you wanted to do. So it was a circus is what it was. There was no rules or regulations, which at the time I thought was amazing. And I thought that would be so good to expose my children to, but they knew enough to say, I don't want to be any part

of that. And it was like, I was upset. But at the same time that part of truth that was in me knew they shouldn't be exposed to that if that makes any sense. So I never forced it. So unfortunately, they became unchurched for some years, because I would just go without them. So because of this new quote unquote gospel, it took your children further away from the church. And, you know, that's one of the real problems with this type of religion.

The family unit in most cases that you see with these things, the family unit gets totally destroyed. And the sad part of it is, the church doesn't really care about that so much. It's all about empowering the central figure. And if they're a church and the NAR network or it may not even be that church that has the central figure.

It may even be another church, and it's all about empowering that central figure. It's, I mentioned earlier, it's like Ghostbusters, but it's entirely worse than this. It's as if you had entire networks of Ghostbusters, and you've got the Ghostbusters unit on the East Coast in New York, and then you've got the Wild West deliverance guy who's out West, and all of these collaboration between these NAR figures.

It's honestly, that's the real power that the NAR holds over the churches. This vast network that's all interconnected, and the transference of nonsense from one network to another, and in the end, it's replacing sound theology.

They're just, all of this nonsense goes through the network, and the sound theology just gets overwritten. Did you ever witness this, where there ever, like the church that you were in, was it connected to other churches, and did those other churches have deliverance ministers that might have influenced your church?

Yeah, I really love the way that you put that, this networking thing site. I never really thought about it that way, but you're right, it's such an integral part. They almost can't survive without it, and it just gets bigger and bigger because of that.

So somewhere in the mix of all of this, and the beginning when I was attending this cult, is it okay for me if I feel wrong referring to it as that? It just seems so harsh, but yeah, it is the truth.

So I still feel bad for calling it that, but when I first started attending, as a member, they didn't focus a whole lot at that time on deliverance and talking about demons and how to deal with them.

They were more focused on like laterane stuff, so ramping us up to be ushering in the kingdom on earth and things like that. I actually, they could blame me for making more of an emphasis on deliverance because here I was kinda doing my side thing with street ministry and getting into deliverance, and I sort of pushed that, but it wasn't hard because it was the prime environment for it if that makes sense.

So I take responsibility for that, where I kept saying, we need to do more deliverance, we need to talk about that more. And so I sort of pushed that, I had met a man who became my mentor.

Just on Facebook, I saw a post that I really thought was amazing, and I ended up reaching out to him and just saying, hey, you know a lot about deliverance, we at this church need to come up to that level a little bit more, we don't seem to understand that.

Do you think? you could come to this and he was from LA. He was from LA, I believe, and you think you could come here and teach us and he was like, yeah, and I was like, wow, that was easy. I was like, this is how that works because like you said, he wanted a network. He was full-time ministry and needed to be able to get from place to place and so having someone that wanted him to come was always going to be a yes and I thought that was because I had some great anointing to connect people

but it was so easy. So he came and we would do what you call camps. So some of them would be hosted at this church, some of them would be in a park, some of them would be at a house, wherever we could get a camp together and I would sort of plan that event, get people to come, market it, have him come and you know he would stay wherever and we would have these camps and we did these about every three months. So he kind of kept that momentum coming. He'd make a real nice flyer, I'd start

giving out the flyer and he would come and again sometimes they would be at the church, sometimes they weren't but he formed a relationship and alliance with this church because I invited him to come. So yeah, he became a very important part of this for me because I really relied on his teachings, his knowledge of the kingdom of darkness and the hierarchy of hell and his knowledge of what every demon did and how to get rid of every demon. I really relied on him as the person to teach me those things. You know and of course he would say he had these amazing encounters.

I had never heard of before. I don't mean to go on and on but if I may share a little bit about these encounters because this really interested me and made me think that I wasn't on the level of other people and I needed to achieve that. So I had to get to where I was having encounters and he would say you know he flew over oceans to other countries and you know God told him to eat a sailboat and he put the sailboat in his mouth and then said now I'm going to take you around

the world and he ate it and what the sailboat tasted like I mean these crazy encounters that he had were so fascinating to me and so I thought I had this anointed man of God that actually would even give me the time of day to take me under his wing. You haven't been anointed until you've eaten a sailboat.

I almost stopped myself if you could see the hesitation was saying that because I feel wrong for sharing that because it's such a like personal encounter that this man had. But I mean, he publicly shared this plenty of times.

But hearing it back just sounds crazier and crazier, everyone say it. You know, I said it was like Ghostbusters, but it's actually more like Dungeons and Dragons. And that's the power of this NAR network.

You've got people who are claiming these fantastic things, right? And then they become, they're mysterious to the rest of it. And the people who aren't connected directly to them and see how they actually are, they become legends across the network.

And then that spreads throughout all the other networks and they build this big, this big unbelievable name for themself and all they're doing is just playing an adult version of Dungeons and Dragons or Harry Potter or whatever it is.

Right. And you know, I, again, I want to take public responsibility because I helped foster this. Again, I brought up deliverance ministry. I asked, you know, can I bring a parcel so and so here and he's going to teach us this.

Yes, they said yes, but I pushed it because you know what? It's interesting, you know, the gifts come without repentance. We all have spiritual gifts and I have this gift in me, like the worldly version would be the gift of gab, you know, like I can, I can connect people.

I can talk my way through things. I can get you to bite, you know, I can, and it's not like I'm trying to take advantage of you, but it's just because I have that personality, you know, and that charismatic side of me.

So it was easy for me to connect with people and that what happened was I created a monster because now I got him connected to all these other people in this region and he's never even stepped foot in Syracuse me.

And now into this day, you know, they, they call him a son, you know, I mean, so now he's all connected to them and then he ended up being the person to turn me into the church, you know, I had already left to say she doesn't believe in modern day apostles anymore.

She must not have the Holy Spirit. And that's when they made a public declaration at their church on a Sunday service where I was not there and they said that I need to be marked and avoided because they had gotten a call from my mentor and they were already on to me and that just sealed the deal that I had gone rogue.

I was to be avoided. So that's when things got difficult for me because I lost friends. I had people actually block me, not talk to me. I think I was cuckoo for Coco Paws.

I mean, really, because of that, so. So you went from being a ghost buster to having the scarlet letter? Yeah, exactly. Only me. I'm laughing because it's, this whole thing is absurd. I think of all of these adults, and they're playing all of these fantasy kids games, you know, they're becoming ghost busters and dungeon to dragons, Harry Potter, and, but I'm sure that was hard.

It's really sad when you went through it, you know? These guys have the power, because they've projected this power on the people that they can just rob you of your entire life and take it away, and I'm certain that was hard to go through, and it's enough to wake anybody up.

It really is. This is, you know, it's not funny like ghost busters. This would be like if Stephen King were to write a book about a church, and you're the person that's being affected in the book.

It's terrible. But so if you could considering that and knowing where you are today, if you could go back in time and give yourself a warning about the NAR, what would that warning be?

Mystica, is this stuff in the Bible? Is it biblical? Because John, I got to admit, I was sort of a lazy Christian. I didn't want to read my own Bible. I rather have you read the Bible for me and to me, and you tell me what it means.

And if it makes sense, I'll buy, I'll believe that because I wanted to do the hands-on stuff. To me, that was the schoolwork. I didn't want to have to read the Bible and take the notes and really be a Berean of the Word.

I'd rather be in the trenches, and you just tell me what the Bible means. So had I just, I did read my Bible, but I didn't read it enough. I didn't study it. And I didn't even know how to read it.

I was, I, you know, just to go back a minute. I grew up in a half Jewish,

half, I guess, I mean, they believed in, you know, Christmas and things like that. It was very confusing. I don't even want to say half Christian. I didn't have the foundation of the Bible.

I didn't have the foundation of church. I didn't even have people in my family I could go to and ask questions about the Bible. So I don't make, I'm not using that as an excuse, but again, that was just another reason why the perfect storm happened because of the past that I had.

I didn't have that foundation. So I just wish that I had said, Mystica, just read the stuff for yourself and see if it's in the Bible. And it's so crazy because these so-called churches, they read the same Bible as you and I do, and they have biblical backing for everything they say, but they're reading it from an isogenicals.

standpoint. So you believe what they're saying because they say, here's the scripture. So this seven mountain mandate, there's, there's scripture for that. Don't ask me what it is. I haven't written down, but there's, there's a scripture that talks about that stuff. And they just expound on it. And then they put themselves in it and make it all about them. And it becomes that man center and that God centered. So I guess I just wish that I would have been a better Berean of the word myself. And I think I would have picked up on this way before it happened. I'm struggling so hard not to laugh through this episode.

It's just, it's so weird. You think of these adults and they're playing Harry Potter and Ghostbusters and all of these weird things. And I'm just, I'm curious and fascinated all at the same time. What was, what was the weirdest thing that you saw as a Ghostbuster?

I really don't want to admit this. And this is another thing that I feel bad about because I genuinely love these people. Every one of them I genuinely love and have hope for their salvation. I'm not mad at any of them. But the strangest thing happened right before I came out of this to two strange things. One of them was we would often have these extra curricular classes where we would come. And I know some churches have other evenings that they have church or days so that more people can come. But this wasn't really other church

services. These were classes. He would usually call them prophetic classes. And that would kind of get us in like, oh, what's, what's, you know, is he going to prophesy or we're going to get a word? And that was sort of pull us in. And we'd have these prophetic classes.

And that was for the people that were really serious about church. And you know, if you didn't attend, it'd be like, how can you be an up and coming leader? You're not coming to this extra stuff so you would kind of get reprimanded. So anyways, I digress. One of these particular Wednesdays, I think it was, we came ready to have prophetic class. And he says, we're going to do something a little different tonight. I, the Lord has been speaking to me about something. And we have to deal with it. And he goes on to tell us that he

believes that there is a witch. I believe in the church. There was always a witch. Someone was always a witch. Our multiple people were witches. And this particular witch had brought in a Python spirit. And I'm sorry if anyone ever that attends this place hears this. And I'm not saying it word for word because it was also confusing that I couldn't keep track of it.

So this is the best way I can remember it. And that something about the Python spirit and the Python spirit was bothering him as the leader and we needed the war in the spirit against this thing.

So we didn't get to know who the which was, you know, we just had we could do the background work of warring. So of course, we were always ready to fight. We were always soldiers. We got up and we started warring in the spirit, whatever that means.

And all of the sudden, the leader, pastor, apostle, whatever, he started to act like he was in distress. Now, I didn't know that we were specifically praying for him. And I'm not even sure he was wanting that, but he started to act funny.

And he started to act like he was in physical distress. And all of the sudden, he fell on the floor like hard. We were like, oh my gosh, our apostle. Is he okay? And he starts to, I don't know how else to describe it, but take on the attributes of a snake and started moving around like a snake.

Oh, I was trying to make sense of this. Now, of course, here I am the deliverance person. And there, Mystica, you got to pray for for so and so. So I come over and I'm trying to help. And all of a sudden, he grabs my ankle.

Not like, help me up, Mystica, but like, I'm going to get you. Mystica. And I like almost fall, you know, everyone's in a frenzy. And I almost fall. And then there's another leader up and coming leader there. And he grabs on to her ankle. And now she's trying to get away. And now this is just a crazy bizarre.

I don't know what to call it deliverance session for our very own leader because he has a Python. And it just got crazier after that. So yeah, but, but I supposedly cast that thing out of him. And I got to call the next day thinking me.

So you've got ghost busters and Harry Potter and I don't know X man. And now you're introducing role playing into all of this, which makes it, it takes it to a whole new level.

More and more complicated and try going home and making sense of how your very own leader manifested a Python and actually tried to hurt you trying to make sense of that. Yeah. The other thing that I wanted to say is something that stand out is kind of a crazy thing to do with deliverance is the actual reason that I left because it wasn't because I came to understand this place was NAR.

It wasn't even because the leader manifested a demon. I still was committed to this tribe. But there came a day where we were in church service on a Sunday and there was a worship team.

They did what you call prophetic worship. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but they believed in just moving in the spirit so they didn't have songs that were planned out. They would just worship prophetically.

And that was the best-weighted worship prophetically. And that got into some crazy things. Involving swords and flags and you name it. What's going on? Okay. It's not funny. I don't mean to laugh. It's just so crazy.

And so the leader would, he called us all up to the altar to step into the river of the Holy Spirit because God was there. And we needed to step into the river and be cleansed or whatever we were getting in the river for.

So everyone headed up to the river at the altar. And I, even though I was a person that was sort of an up-and-coming leader and I'd be someone that would normally be praying for people, I was coming to get mine whatever was in that river.

So I was headed up to the altar and all of the sudden, as I'm walking up, this person who was, I considered a good friend of mine and part of the ministry team comes sort of charging at me.

Just very quickly comes to me and says, and there was all this music and I could barely hear and I'm pretty sure she says, don't touch her. And I'm like, don't touch her, don't touch who.

And then she disappears. And I'm like, what is going on? And then it all made sense to me. Her mother was there. And she, the one that approached me, didn't want me to touch her mother.

She thought I was coming to lay hands on her mother and pray for her when I was just coming up to the altar like everyone else and she didn't want me to impart demons into her mom.

So that day, she had it in her mind that I was a witch or I had demons. As we always did, we always looked at each other sideways like who has the demons next?

Who's the witch in the house? We were always paranoid and in fear that don't trust them. They're probably the one with the demon. So don't get it twisted. Mystica, who's the deliverance minister, she's probably a witch.

So she had it in her mind. I was a witch, didn't tell me. Thought I was going to impart them into her mom. Came at me and that's when I was like, I left.

I was very hurt. I left and I was like, now I'm going to wait and see if this gets dealt with. And that's when everything started unravel while I took this couple of weeks off.

All I can attribute that to is God. Cause it all just, and I started looking up things and that's when I found NAR and I was like, like what is that and I was wow it just all unraveled how did I know that we were going to end up this episode with wand of the good which it's yeah it's so absurd man it it's okay for children's game if we were playing a children's game this would be okay but this is not a children's game I feel awkward I feel awkward as an adult telling other adults that

church is not supposed to be like a children's game what are you guys thinking if I had known what dungeons and dragons was maybe that would have been my warning I would have been able to recognize it if I had known what Harry Potter was about and dungeons and dragons I might have been able to recognize the NAR but I didn't know about that stuff so mystica's advice to everyone listening is go learn how to play dungeon I'm joking don't don't do that but so as weird as this sounds as this sounds this is commonplace this is spreading all throughout the world

and these NAR churches this these fantasy games and anyway I'm so glad that you came on to tell us about Harry Potter and wand of the good witch well it's my pleasure and I can't believe how crazy it sounds as I'm testifying to it but that is that is the real story yeah thank you for having me and thinking we're taking the time to hear me out because I am in that process of being deprogrammed and coming out of and relearning and losing relationships and I'm not looking for sympathy but it's it's it's hard so

this is rather therapeutic to be able to to talk about it and have someone understand it and recognize it for what it is so I appreciate you well thank you I'm certain that all of our listeners are going to be excited and encouraged and confused at all of this NAR mess that we have as I mentioned earlier in the podcast I'm working on the new book it hopefully we'll be out by the time that this podcast airs if not shortly after I think we're targeting September 1st but if you enjoy this and you want more information you can check us out on the web

you can find us at william-branam.org and when it comes out for an overview of the dark side of the NAR you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR which will be available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible

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