Weaponized Religion - NAR Music: The Devil's Trick

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher and friend, John McKinnon, the author of the persuasive preacher, the gifted prophet, and the noble politician.

And together we're discussing weaponized religion, how Christian identity fused with early Christian fundamentalism and politics to form the foundation for the new haphastolic reformation. John, it's good to be back and to be recording all things, Davis, and though the audience may think otherwise, you and I did not plan this, our color coordination. We apparently have the same exact taste in shirts. So it was not planned. I picked this shirt, but anyway, it's good to be back and to talk about this era because for me, as a musician, this is just fascinating to think of the roots of how this grew because Davis, we've talked about his

Pentecostal attempt at, you know, he actually was somewhat successful in creating his own Pentecostal sect of which William Branham was a bishop. And this is coming all during the years in which the before the UPC I was formed, but you can clearly tell that it was with the intent to merge all of this into the big larger body of Pentecostals. And we see some evidence of that as we go into the 40s, late 40s. But anyway, this, you know, it didn't, it didn't take roots as far as he wanted apparently. And he used his influence in media, which if you think about what's happening with

all of these mega churches and, you know, the Charismania, the NAR, all of these different movements, how they've leveraged entertainment to build their platforms. You can't say that Davis was the reason why they're doing it, but you can say that he definitely played a part in laying the foundation of what was to come.

Yeah, John, it's good to be back in recording again and following Davis's trail. You know, Davis was one of the, you know, people that started using music and entertainment to attract a crowd. And he did that wherever he went, you know, even from the earliest days, you know, when he got started, he was known as a singer.

So he's always been very talented in that area. And it's not surprising that that's how the churches

that are forming today under that umbrella of new NAR, they use music quite a bit. That's one of the hooks. And people love music, they're attracted to music. You can, I was watching some YouTube videos last night of somebody that plays the piano, and it just attracts a crowd everywhere you go if they played in a mall or wherever.

People are just amazed at music, it just has an attraction. So it's very natural. And most people love to hear music and sing along and so forth. But Davis, back in Jeffersonville, he had started his sect of Pentecostalism, the Pentecostal Baptist Church, and we have strong evidence.

He established many churches in several churches in that area that was used in using that area. It's maybe a home base for a time. And then being under the pressure he was from the law and from the time he took Ali Lee in his home when he brought her from Chattanooga in 1930, he got into trouble there.

And it was just a big stigma over her living with him. She was living with him since 1930. And here we are in 1933, 34. And you know, Brannum has come to his own by that time and was able to handle multiple churches in the area, like Milltown Baptist and other churches that he would go around and minister to.

So he was at the point in time that, and he had that 1933 baptismal service, the tent revival, so he got a good start. And actually took over Davis's church when it burned in 1934 and they began to meet until they could build their own church later on in 35, 36 as we read and as a deeds show.

But yeah, Brannum was very well unable to take over the church there. So Davis had no reason to stay. He had all the reasons in the world to leave, for the legal reasons that had been in trouble with the law and a stigma with living with Ali Lee that he could go.

And the fact that the West was a fertile ground for him. So I believe his mind was set on the West and he would just come back east from time to time to check on things, it's what it seemed like to me.

Right, and one thing I want to bring up that's happening during this era, this is what tipped me off that this was a much larger operation than just a single church and Davis trying to hide out.

He was establishing a Pentecostal cult. And in the year 1934 in May, there's an article that is from the commercial appeal that says Davis may move church seat. And this is the article that lists Davis as holding the National Headquarters of the Pentecostal Baptist Church, and it says it may be moved from Jeffersonville, Indiana to Memphis.

And there's a few things to note in here. National Headquarters implies that there are different branches of this thing. There are different locations having it, which we've identified, at least in Milltown, we have not yet identified all of them because it's kind of scattered and unknown history. But he was the editor of the Pentecostal Baptist witness, so the Pentecostal sect had created its own newsletter, which was common among all Pentecostal groups. Well, many at Pentecostal groups of the era. And he is, he's nationally recognized that he's holding preaching every night, it's on the radio every morning at 10.30 a.m., and the services began at 7.45.

So they were recognizing that this is a key figure in the religious world who may be moving his, his headquarters out of Jeffersonville to another area. It doesn't look like that happened, but had it happened, this would have put Brannum much earlier than he became the head of this church. It would have put him the head at, you know, around 1934 because Brannum was, at this point, he from all appearances was Davis's second and command in this Pentecostal sect. So it is significant.

Now, some things happen later, which kind of derail all of Davis's plans, but we'll get into that a bit, but it looks like the first attempt would have been largely successful had Davis not been such a dastardly con artist. Yeah, if Davis had of kept his nose clean, you know, he might have had quite a following with him and Brannum teamed up together, but of course, you know, the way he was, they couldn't stay together, but we'll find eventually they come back together in just a few years, you know, from the time, you know, Brannum took over the congregation in 1934 and became the head

of the area there. It was only, you know, a few years later, you know, 10 years later probably whenever they rejoined. And it's kind of interesting that they even, you know, rejoined together as we found out in 1950 when he put the article in the voice of healing and we'll get to that at some point. But, you know, Davis took his talents and his, I would say his common law life because she was by this time, his definitely, she was known as a common law life by legal standards.

But music, you know, was very, it's very heavily used in the NAR. And I actually heard Tio Lossborn say one time. And of course, he was a very big revivalist and very well known among the message ranks as well. But he said music is one of God's tricks, and I think it's not only God's tricks, but it's also the devil's trick.

You know, music has a way of swaying people's opinions and minds and thoughts. So it's used in this industry of the N.A.R. churches. You remember just recently the revival that was broke out in Asbury?

What were they doing the whole time? They weren't preaching the word. They were singing. It was all about singing and worship, and people really get into that. And that's important, too, but it can't be the only thing, but music is quite a bit.

And of course, it appeals to the people that like the rock concert type of atmosphere in church, and they've managed to be popular to get it to where it can be like people are used to in the world.

So they gladly come to church because they experience the same thing. But Aleika Singh, she was a very talented singer, and Davis was talented in singing, playing instruments, and in their advertisements, as they started touring, they became nationally known, as you said, and they also were advertised as nationally known radio singers.

So they were on the radio. He was spreading his sect in that way, and he started taking to media quite a bit. But the West Coast, I believe, all the way from British Columbia, Canada, down to Oregon, because when Lindsay was out in Portland, Oregon at the time, and all the way to Los Angeles, there was real fertile ground for the propagation of Pentecost churches and Christian identity.

And there was a lot of concentration of that thought out there in the West Coast. So Davis likely migrated out there because it was a real fertile ground for him to develop his sect.

But Allie Lee had been living with him for about five years now, and he still passed her off as his daughter, you know, even though during this time, during their radio appearances or during their tour as the team called Jack and Granny.

Another interesting thing, while Brannum stayed back in Jeffersonville, you know, he passed her more than one church in the area. He wasn't only the pastor of the Brannum Tabernacle, which was Davis' congregation, but he was also a pastor of the Middletown Baptist Church, nearly all the way to 1951, when he became nationally known, you know, after his tour to South Africa, he became so well known, I guess he had no longer had time to be called the pastor there, but I have it on tape, or he was saying he was pastor on tape in 1951.

And he found that he could sway audiences by this time, you know, he had come into his own, but he could stretch stories and just tell outright untruths or lies while being on the road, because people couldn't verify the story a lot of times, but we do find out that he gets caught on a few of these lies in the newspapers back home, because people are trying to check this out, you know, early on.

He did this just to boost people's beliefs in him as being a man of God with power and being able to do miraculous things. And the early sermons, if you go back to the 1947 sermons we have, and I'm sure there's much earlier sermons somewhere maybe in the vault that's not been released, but these have a lot of clues.

And that's what I've been focusing on a lot as the early sermons 1947. But he mentions in faith as the substance in 1947, he said, I was at my church, the Milltown Baptist Church, where I went to hold a revival.

So there's a statement that I was at my church, the Milltown Baptist Church. And he said many of you seen the little book called Jesus Christ, same yesterday day and forever. Well, that little book has been hid for a very long time. I think when I read that quote years ago, I wanted to find that book because I wanted to read it.

You know, I want to read all things, brand them. So I look for it. It's been hid. You know, voice of God didn't have it. And I'm so glad that in your work, John, that you were able to find a copy.

I think it was published on the internet at some point. So I was able to read it. And back then I didn't read it with a discerning thought. You know, I was reading it under the auspices of the message. So I didn't really look at it critically. And it really contradicts his angel story and the start of his healing ministry by the dates in there and by what he says and how his healing ministry came to him.

I mean, he says it came to him in the 1930s. And so that little booklet, of course, has to be hid because the truth, you know, would come out. And we would be seeing something a different side of this. But it's good that they've published it by now. But as he's talking here in this sermon, he says, you know, no one believes me.

He said, no one even raised from the dead. They don't believe it. And he says, by the way, a man that laid in the morgue, pronounced dead by three doctors. I went in to where he was at.

He's driving a Pennsylvania locomotive tonight and they still don't believe that's true. That is true. They won't believe. So what does he say in there? He said he went into a morgue and a man was laying, you know, he could have been in bomb by that time. Who knows? But he was pronounced dead by three doctors.

And then he says he raised him from the dead. Now that's pretty miraculous. And him making that claim why he was out in the field just one way. But there is an article. It was in June, July 23rd, 1947. And this is just after the sermon that he preached where he said he raised from the dead. But he was in Canada preaching and also said the same thing. He was making these claims.

But somebody was from Winnipeg was asking about a Ted straighter about the details of this. Can anybody, can he please wire the details of whether or not this is true? You know what's the man's name, calls of death, name of morgue when it happened. And they were trying to find the details of it. And the newspaper's right back says we don't know of any story like this.

that it ever occurred. He says, we've been reporting the news for 75 years and something of this magnitude would have surely been known and we would have definitely reported on this. So it's pretty obvious that this was a made-up story. Now, the minister, he just got started out. Why would he be telling these big lies starting out in his ministry? It just shows you that he's out for some obvious reason to boost his own popularity. It sounds like he's going around like the snake oil salesman and the old westerns making these boisterous claims. Back then, people didn't have really any way to verify those claims.

They just had to take the man at his word and unlike the snake oil salesman, this is a man who is claiming to be a Christian and so they were more likely to agree with whatever it was that he said. They thought, why would a Christian lie? And this turn into such a big deal. Another thing I want to focus on, you mentioned the cult had not originally published that article. It's interesting that I'm finding this is common among all cults. They like to conceal all of the critical information. And the pattern is, if they can hide it, they will, but when it becomes

exposed, like you also said, they, somebody told me that they had started publishing this document now. It totally undermines the entire history of Brannum that has been, I mean, I grew up with this history. We all said that he started his ministry because an angel came in either 1947 or 1948. Well, here's a document saying from William Brannum himself saying it was 1945 that his ministry began and there is no angelic claim. It's a different, much like the raising from the dead story. It's a different fictional story that was used. And I've had this happen a few

times with the Brannum organization, something that has been concealed as soon as, as soon as I give it some attention, then magically it appears. And they start, they start selling it or one in the case of the Jim Jones. And somewhere you can go back in their history of their edits. And you can see this. But I began working with the Jones town foundation and discovered that there wasn't just one single instance of William Brannum with Jim Jones. There were, there was an entire campaign series and they had, somebody had misfiled the Jones episodes or the Jones sermons into a

different year. So if you're looking through and you find Jim Jones in this one sermon, you say, oh, there's just one. And then you kind of discount it. But they have sent, I've noticed that since I began working with the Jones town foundation and referenced the actual sermons that were in the, you know, in the wrong years that they were filed. Now they, they're magically, the correct years. So John, people like you and I have the the way to correct history.

And that's actually, that's powerful, if you really think about it. Yeah, it really is. And I think the, I've heard it said, I've been watching another podcast, but the man there is talking about some history about a local hero that people, you know, just exalted up to a hero status. And he's finding out the truth of these things and bringing it out nowadays. And he said the truth has no agenda. I thought about putting that behind me as well.

And a big letter's truth has no agenda. And he's right. You know, you know, when you just, you just want to tell the truth, you have no reason. Otherwise, just, just tell the truth. And that's, that's very important. I believe what we're doing because it's going to hopefully help, help people start critically thinking about these things because, you know, many people's never encountered this, this data. And it just contradicts everything in their mind, how they've been brainwashed into thinking some of these things were true and they're really not. So it just takes a while to wake up sometimes. I'm hoping some of these things will wake people up. So around 1936,

you know, Roy then took out Ali on the road with him to begin that singing ministry. And they called himself Jack and granny. And he was going back to the time where he called her granny in his church basically to hide her identity because somebody named granny, you think of an older lady.

And also she's not called by Ali Lee because that would give her away definitely. So it was just a nickname, but it was a way for him to hide her identity, you know, after he got in trouble with the man act and the arrest that he had, you know, he just definitely wanted to keep her on the low profile as long as he could. He began calling himself Jack, you know, and that was another alias that he used. He was known to use several aliases, but Jack became his new name, Jack Davis, the minister. That was preventive people from talking about him as he went through the country

as Roy Davis, you know, because everybody was familiar with Roy Davis in Oklahoma and Texas, where he was from. And they had gotten to know his reputation. So Jack became a new name for him.

The people didn't know him. And it was just the hideous past. And so he called Ali his daughter. So he was able to hide the fact that, you know, she was really his living wife, but he called her his daughter because of their obvious age differences. And it was eight years later after this in 1943 that she really became his wife as he went out west because at that time he couldn't hide it any longer. They were kind of openly, you know, acting as husband and wife. So he did some strange things, which will go into during that wedding as far as about lying about their ages. But one of the

first stops on the road was Oklahoma. And he knew some of the people there actually and they knew him. He was able to reconnect with them and begin that singing tour and own the native record in September 10th, 1936. So we know he was out there then. It says, Jack and Granny of Radio Fame will sing in Medial. And there was a Reverend of the Nazarene Church, Pentecostal Church. The arrangements were made for Jack and Granny on Thursday and Friday nights.

And the public is invited to hear the Reverend and Jack and Granny. So that was one particle there. Then in September 17th, 1936, it says the guest, Jack and Granny, guest of rotary radio artist entertain members of the rotary program. And so they were seeing around this area in Oklahoma. And it says for 30 minutes, they delighted the club members with songs accompanied by guitar, piano, accordion, and the piano. So it says these entertainers are gifted artist in their line, furnished one of the most delightful entertainments that has been given to the club in months, many months. So that was another article that was written. So what stands out in this

next article I'll mention is the fact that they reveal to the public, they knew the true identities of Jack and Granny. So when I found this, it was really, it was like a treasure to me because, you know, you can make the argument, well, Jack and Granny, that's not Roy Davis and Ali Lee.

But because that's what the purpose was to hide it. And so people did read it today could tell you, oh, that's not, that's not who they are. But this was on the daily art more at November 25th, 1936. It says all churches to unite and thanksgiving observers at the Methodist Church in Maydill, Oklahoma. And so they were joined by, you know, the pastors and so forth. It says in the evening, the party attended the Nazarene Revival in Artmore being conducted by Reverend Roy Davis and daughter. And he says, remembered here as Jack and Granny. So right there, the paper publishes the fact that they are Jack and Granny. But here he

is using his real name again, Roy Davis, E Davis and daughter. But he's still hiding the fact that Ali Lee is his secret wife at this time. And then there was another one conducting a service at the Soldiers' home, that same Reverend from the Nazarene Church. And this was at a Confederate home at Artmore. And Roy Davis and daughter, they would be remembered here to the citizens here as Jack and Granny. Again, they revealed their identities there. So then finally, they published their picture in the big pastor news in December 3rd, 1936. So they were very busy in 1936.

And they basically put their picture, Roy Davis and Ali Lee is Jack and Granny. And it's good that we have that picture there because there's not very many pictures of Roy Davis around. And definitely not many of Ali Lee. Roy Davis is now traveling in 1937, holding revivals in Louisiana. This is in Baciae, Louisiana.

And this is where it's announced that he's formerly connected with the late John Roach Stratton in New York.

And this is where he kind of stretches the truth by a whole lot. You know, just as we know they all do. He says he's given himself over to evangelism and the homeland and on foreign soil and now conducting a revival in the assembly of God Church here in Bossea City. Then he said along with the preaching there's gospel radio singers of renown, we'll give a performance and of course that's Jack and Granny. And then it says he was three years editor-in-chief of the Pentecostal Baptist witness. So there's that article about the publication that they were publishing for his Pentecostal Baptist Church. And he said he was editor for that

for three years as a national, a national weekly devoted to religion and science to the public's invited to attend that. So that's in 1937. So he's really traveling around the country there going from Oklahoma to Louisiana and who knows where else. I'm sure Arkansas was another place he ended up. Yeah, I remember whenever you and I were years ago going through the Jack and Granny back and forth via email. I didn't believe it. I didn't believe that that was who would become his future wife. It said no, it's his daughter, man. And you know, I don't know why it

didn't click. But I thought at the time my thinking was there's no, he's already gotten away with so many things. There's no way he got away with this as well. And sure enough, after you show me all the evidence, this man got away with that too. He's literally traveling with this this young girl who later becomes his wife and he's hiding her in plain sight. And you know, when you think about the early revivals, at least from the perspective that we've been covering, you can't say that about all of the revivalists, but there are a number of men that we've identified

who they're really crooked people. Some of them are in the have history with the mob, you know, some of them have criminal history like Davis, you know, every state. And they're literally hiding in plain sight. And they're using religion as the means to hide. And that was a concept that it really took me a long time to grasp the fact that you could do that because the prohibition, for example, I began researching what happened whenever before prohibition ended, these guys who were supplying the illicit liquor to the world, they were like, you know, prestigious, they're almost

like today's Hollywood actors, you know, these guys were famous, they dressed, you know, just look like Tom Cruise, some of these guys, right? But then whenever anybody can get liquor and you don't have to go through the mob to get it, well, suddenly there's nothing more than petty criminals and what happened. And I started watching documentaries of how many of them hid, in fact, I can't remember the name of the place, but there was one location that they had literally burled into a side of a mountain and they had put a hotel right on the face of the mountain and you go into the hotel and it's a normal

hotel, but then there was a secret tunnel that led to this whole labyrinth where all these mobsters were hiding. In places like this, make you think, what all went underground, but then in the same documentary or series, I think it was a series.

They started talking about some of the people hidden plain sight and I got to thinking about religion and at that point, I didn't know everything I knew about Davis, but I knew Davis had some extensive criminal history and he seemed to never get caught.

It seemed to me at that point that hiding in religion was actually safer than hiding some labyrinth underground where if suddenly, if one person gets exposed, they all get exposed. Well, if Davis, it's very hard to even catch him.

He's going from town to town and has different names, different groups that he's with. One area, he's a Baptist, another area, he's a Pentecostal and from there, my mind leaped to, wait a minute, Brandon also claimed to be a Baptist and a Pentecostal and his father was working, splying liquor directly to Al Capone through Otto Wathen and many connections began to form a mind that you'll never prove all of them, but it's fascinating to think about because this appeared to be a common thing.

But you're right, Davis is doing this. He's doing it in plain sight and he is building a, what he's doing is building a network. And if you think of the NAR, how it came to be, its power really isn't the doctrines or the teaching or even the money, the real power comes in the network because you have this collaboration of separate entities that you can take any two churches in the NAR network and you can say these are different churches, they're not even, you can't call this NAR.

In fact, I watched a debate where some guy was saying this, what is NAR? But you have to understand first the network and Davis is doing this and he's one of the earliest men that I have seen that does it and does it like the NAR does because he really doesn't care what you believe or what your denomination of faith is.

You're in this network that can support him and then as he's touring from town to town his fame feeds the network and so this, this was an elaborate scheme concocted by Davis that very, very similarly relates to what we see today.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign? Charismatic and other fringe movements into the new Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

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It's kind of funny that you mentioned, you know, Roy was always very hard to catch because he used so many different names, you know, he used Lawn Davis a long time ago back in Georgia.

Now he's using Jack Davis and once in a while his name will appear as Roy Davis in the papers, but he's just trying to hide and hiding in plain sight, you know, using religion just seems to be like you said, the best way to, you know, keep yourself out of trouble and why under the table, under behind the scenes, you're doing all this other, you know, evil activity.

So it is a way that it kind of pulls the wool over people's eyes to say, you're a good man, but you can kind of do what you want to behind the scenes. And you see that a lot in the ministers that has risen up today, you know, behind the scenes are, they're actually a different person than they are presenting before the public as a minister.

You know, they've done some things. Maybe that would disqualify them to be a minister and we're saying some of them stepping down today, if the ones that do step down after doing things that really would disqualify them, probably the most, you know, you could probably just applaud them for that, but those that step down for a week or two and then come right back and start ministering again, you know, those you have to really question are there are there's a repentance really a genuine.

So Roy was really hard to catch here in these times, but you know, I think we'll find out here a few years, he almost gets his due, you know, from the law and he almost gets to serve his time that he really deserves to spend in jail.

But the network is very important. I think years ago, back when, you know, I was in college, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, churches coming together in the world I was in, you know, about how to get the churches all together because they're all different doctrineally, you know, you can't ever agree on it.

So the person made a statement to be one time, you know, will never be one doctrineally, but will be one, you know, spiritually, I guess, but I think it's more about being one in their goals because look at the kind of people that's in these organizations, but they still come together and they cover for one another.

And they all have secrets to hide, you know, some do have some more secrets than others. But they all cover for one another because the end goal is what they're all after, you know, which is the dominion, you know, taking over, you know, the nations and ruling the nations.

Supposedly, as manifest sons of God, as this hierarchy structure they've got, bringing back the apostolic apostles' prophets and so forth to rule. And they feel like that that's going to be their destiny is to rule the nations.

So we say that, you know, doctrineally doesn't really matter, doc doctrine doesn't matter to them. It's all about our end goal, as long as you're on the train for the end goal you're in.

And so that's how it works. So he travels all around and Davis does and he ends up back in Jeffersonville because evidently, he had been going back and forth because there's a dispute with him about the revival that he had there.

This was 1937, the volunteers of America had a dispute over him over something petty. It was a piano and maybe a pulpit that they were disputing over as the major Olray and Reverend Davis in this new Albany dispute.

And so, you know, he had to come back for that complaint against him because they probably stole the piano and the pulpit. You know, for what reasons I don't know because that's so petty.

And then by 1939, Davis gets in trouble again with the court, so we're in automobile. He took out a state which was not paid for and belonged to another person. So they had a mortgage on it, they said.

And also he jumped bond from Arkansas, came back to Jeffersonville where he was extradited back. So really, him coming back to Jeffersonville was probably to get away from the law, but he was extradited back, you know, they actually had an order for him to do that.

It was signed by the governor. This was in 1939 in January in the Cincinnati inquirer. So he said a governor, Chandler signed that as officers from Arkansas appear with Indiana warrant and to pick up Davis.

So he ordered that extradition from Louisville to hot springs, Arkansas to face a charge of removing from that state an automobile on which a miser's Kate Gay held a mortgage. So he was starting to get catch up with him about his doings.

And also in the same article, you know, Davis said, Davis is kind of strange. You know, he must have been involved some pretty cricket things because in the same article it says Davis and miser's gay had permitted, said miser's gay had permitted him to take the car out of the Arkansas and charge that those in control, whoever they were in quotes at hot springs sought his return because of his participation in the investigation of a murder case.

And he says even this, I won't live if I go back, he declared it the hearing. He says, I believe I'll be ambushed. Davis said he lived in Jeffersonville since last November. and had preached at Louisville. So see, this is in 1939. So he must have come back in 38 and had lived in Jeffersonville a year there after he was singing tour in Oklahoma.

So he must have been building up his organization there. So it's kind of strange, you know, Brannum by this time was, you know, pastor of a solid church there. Davis had no church in Jeffersonville, but he came back.

So obviously they were probably connected again together right there. I'm sure they were. I'm sure he reconnected with Brannum and we just don't know about it. We don't have any evidence in the papers about it. But it also matches in this article. It says his daughter who he described as a radio performer was present at the hearing.

So we see that's Ali Lee. They don't mention the name of the girl, but it was a radio performer. So we do know that Jack and granny were radio performers. And so we know that's exactly who that is. So sometime between 39 and 41 Davis does get to serve some time in a real prison, probably at least to 1941, 42.

Because he did fill out a draft card. I do have a copy of a draft card in 1941. It's kind of interesting that, you know, why did he fill out a draft card? He's already pretty old by this time.

But there was such a thing called an old man's draft for the World War II. You know, not only were they're the young service men that from 18, 24 years old, they were being drafted.

But there was also the old man's draft. So they went all out during this war. And they actually drafted people that were a lot older just in case they needed them to call them up. So he does. But it's funny that and this is in 1941 or so.

He mentions his addresses in California. So he has moved. He within a couple of years from Jeffersonville. He may have served some time in prison and then moved all the way out to California. So he's definitely on the move.

That's probably after his release from prison. And Ali Lee has owned his draft card. She's listed on there as somebody to notify in case of emergency. And at the same address. So they're both living together. We know that.

They were still not married at this time. That's a very key crucial thing that you're studying. You know, the history of this is that they were not married until 1943 in January. But she's listed as living with him on the draft card.

It was two years later that they got married. But that's after they've been living together for 13 years. And by the time they got married, they lied about their ages. And so he was spending some time in prison.

And Ali Lee stayed with him during that time. She didn't leave him obviously. But when they went down to Mexico, you know, Davis was 54 by this time. And Ali was 29 1943 in January.

And they actually went down to Mexico to get married. I guess it was again to hide. You know, if they do it in Mexico, the people in America won't be able to get those documents.

And when I came across this, this was amazing. I had to go into ancestry.com and actually sign up for getting documents out of the country. When I found out he was married in Mexico and I came across that, I said, well, I've got to get this document.

So I really, I signed up to get worldwide documents and it was so great that I got the, it was all in Spanish, but I got their actual wedding document where they were married in Mexico.

But I do know their ages listed in that document was, Davis listed to himself as 47 and Ali listed to herself as 24. So they both went five years prior at least because he was actually 54 years old.

She was 29. So they back, they back dated their ages. So then when they were in California, they could tell everybody, yeah, we've been married for the last five years because their ages were at least five years, you know, beyond that.

So I think that was a ploy because while it's where they have reason to lie about their ages, you know, they've been living together for so long. They didn't want to present to the public that, hey, they were living together, you know, immorally.

So they lied about those ages for that reason, I believe. He listed his current status as divorced on that and his birthplace, Omaha, Texas, Ali listed herself as single her birthplace as Dalton, Georgia.

So once that wedding was official, they no longer had to hide under that banner of Jack and Granny, although they use it at times while they're in California, but they no longer had to hide, they could come out and say, we're now married and we've been married for several years, you know, and nobody would know the difference.

So then, then you can talk more about the prison sentence, John, because I'm not as familiar with that. But I think I traced it down in my book, but I definitely think you know more about that than I do.

One thing I want to circle back to, I've actually never published this and you know, I've never said it. So it'll be maybe news to you. I don't know if you've caught it. You mentioned that there was a theft of a piano.

And I remember when it was, I think it was searching for vindication.com is the one that first found that article. So William Brannum, the church that he attended apparently had a stolen piano.

And he was, I should say that differently, the church that he was a bishop of, he was literally the second in command, their piano was a stolen piano. And it, you know, it talks about Davis getting in trouble, it was Davis that was behind the theft apparently.

But there were some names in it that I didn't catch it until years later. But it mentions that the volunteers were represented by Thomas K. Hill, a Louisville attorney. And it mentioned some names Charles R. Turner and Captain W. O. O. Ray.

And so you've got Davis, who's leading all of these, you know, white supremacy stacks. And this is, now we're getting into the years where Christian identity is actually forming. So Davis is a key figure in a movement that...

Eventually, would tightly collaborate with Christian identity because many of the premises were very much aligned. And so you picture Davis and all of his organizations as the bad guy. Well, now you get the volunteers who are rising up against Davis and, hey, this guy stole a piano.

Let's take the bad guy, let's, you know, do whatever we can to get the people their piano back. Well, this is widespread. You have the forces of good rising against the forces of evil.

And Ulrey comes into play years later. Davis and, remember in Jeffersonville, which is a incredibly small town after the flood, especially, Jeffersonville had a sudden surge of Pentecostals. It was really weird because it wasn't just Davis that came.

Davis came with his brother, Dan Davis, and what are the W.O. I can't remember his initials, but all these guys came. Well, Dan Davis started a Pentecostal church that was literally just a few blocks away from Davis' church.

So you had two Pentecostal competing organizations by two brothers and both of them aligned with white supremacy. Well, over in across the river in Louisville, these guys, and this comes a little bit later, but these guys set up a, what was called the Bethel Mission Fund.

And the name was a variation on a Baptist Mission Fund. So whenever the Baptists are collecting for their Mission Fund in Louisville, well, Davis could be on another street corner, a block away, collecting money for the same cause with almost the same name.

And people would think they're giving money to the Baptist organization, is really ingenious what they did. Well, in 1939, there's an article I found, and there's a whole series of articles where they're exposing what Davis and his brother were doing, which was an illegal thing.

And remember, these are the years that William Brannum was deeply connected with all of this. So Brannum either was involved with it or he had to have known that these guys were stealing money from the Baptist church, basically.

But it mentions that these, this man, Ulray, the captain and Turner collaborated to bring the indictment and criminal court against Dan Davis. And again, Dan is working with Roy. Roy is working with Brannum.

So this is a criminal organization that are working together. And so you've got all of these white supremacists who are, they have this underground network, and Davis is creating a religious underground network. And they're working towards the bad cause.

At the same time, you have all of this going on. You have the Christian identity movement, which is forming. And we've mentioned, I think you mentioned. in this podcast, Gordon Lindsay, William Brannum's campaign manager, was in the Christian Identity movement. They were forming. There was, we'll never know the extent because it's all hidden information, but there was a collaboration that was happening as this was emerging, right?

And then we're getting into the years, you mentioned the prison sentence and the years going that direction. Well, now you're getting into the years where the Nazi sympathizers or what would become the Nazis. The German sympathizers were also getting in this weird mix because you have the night of the broken glass, I think it's 1939, November. You have already the Anglo-Saxon Federation, the one that Gordon Lindsay was in. It was forming and they were creating the anti-Jewish sentiment, which the white supremacists had the anti-black agenda.

So now those two agendas were forming and they were forming this partnership. We had people like Captain Ulroy who is trying to bring all of this down. So there's a lot of moving pieces here as all of this is progressing. But like you said, Davis does get caught. He goes to prison and probably not going to talk much about the prison. You can go see the prison record up here, but what that did was in the grand scheme of things, what that did was it set William Brannum up to where he could have a greater power play in this movement that Davis had created. Up until the

point of his conviction and his prison sentence, Brannum was like, he was the second in command, he was a leader of the Milhtown Baptist Church. I suspect, and Charles and I kind of agree on this, we think that there were others beyond just Milhtown. There appeared to be more. So Brannum is a key figure. He's a bishop who is leading multiple churches at the same time that Davis is growing this Pentecostal organization whose headquarters is in Jeffersonville. Davis goes to prison, well then everything goes in disarray. Suddenly there's a power grab for the church.

And for a period of time, according to the newspapers, the church that Davis planted was actually ran by somebody else. I think at that time Brannum must have been in Milhtown, we don't know yet. But whatever happens, that guy gets ran out of town. The church burns and Brannum takes over basically the population of Davis's church transitions to what became the Billy Brannum Pentecostal Tabernacle. And the name and its formation suggests that because Davis is now taken out of the picture, he's gone to prison. We don't know if Davis is coming back. Now Brannum rises to the top of the organ.

organization. And the organization shifts and changes its name. I think the latest I have seen the organization used was in a I think it was 1951. William Brannum says he's holding a Pentecostal Baptist revival, which that is the organization that Davis created. So this is after ladder, this is during ladder rain. As William Brannum is a ladder rain minister, he's still heading this organization. So Davis's prison sentence actually created the scenario where Brannum could rise to the top. And then once he's at the top, as we'll get into this, it gets a little funny because Davis comes back on the scene. And now Davis

wants it all back. Well, Brannum's, you know, he's grown so big himself that what do you do? And I don't think Davis ever got control of what he created. Yeah, that's that's an interesting take on that too. And I think the picture you're painting there is very much what reality was, you know, going back, yeah, I do know Davis used church's names. If the church he was using a Nashville had a name. I don't remember what the name of it was, but he was using part of that name to call himself that by that church name, which

was the church that had left there was renting the building to him. And then he was actually called out in the newspapers for using the name because he was collecting funds and having revivals. And the people in the town thought it was under the auspices of the other church.

So so he was very sneaky in that. And they did the same thing up in Louisville, you know, when they that Bethel mission, they were collecting funds under the name Bethel. And so that was another dispute. And so they were they were very sneaky in how they they did that. And like you said, the Christian identity was really getting a foothold and forming and as it had migrated from the British Israelism because this was the American version of the British Israelism became Christian identity. And Lindsey being a part of that. And he wonder sometimes all these men, you know,

eventually came back together, you know, even though, you know, Davis was out of the picture. And Bradham was on his own. But then here is Lindsey, you know, very much a part of all this.

The Pentecostals was Christian identity. And now he joins with with Bradham. And perhaps, you know, he joined him for those reasons that, you know, Bradham had a Christian identity sect. You know, or a white supremacist sect that he was part of. And Lindsey saw that and joined with him.

But I think like you think is that Davis Davis is all about power. So as soon as he got out of prison, you know, he wanted to find ways to build his, you know, group back up his reputation back up.

And eventually back when he, when he comes back into the picture in 1950, yet it doesn't help Bradham's reputation as an honest man at all with this article and voice of healing, you know, about all he says about him being his first pastor. But, but to do after Davis gets out of prison, The really bill back his organization, he did what he did best was singing.

And he went out to California. And amazingly, he organized this big singing convention. And it brought churches together, congregations together. So here they are using music to bring many people together. Various denominations didn't matter, what denomination that you were along with you wanted to join with them, you had a part of the table.

So he remained in touch with Congressman Upshall. Even Upshall comes back into the picture now. And it's so strange that Upshall would find a place out there. But it had to have been because, you know, Pentecostalism was strong.

Upshall was a great speaker. And to get their message out, they had an open door. And they had a very wide open door to go speak and to do what they wanted to do.

But Upshall was back from his clan days. And now they were back in the same state together. So you wonder if they hadn't been talking with each other and decided to go out there to plant something.

So by April the 2nd of 43, they announced their singing convention and San Bernardino County and Roy Davis of Upland was gonna lead this. And he's part of the Southern, a meeting place with the Southern missionary Baptist Church.

And that's where the public was invited. So they talked about Jack and Granny B and radio singers being present. So they're getting a hills back to Roy and Allie. But they Roy and Allie settled in Upland, California.

And it's very near Congressman Upshall, you know, another strange thing that, you know, Upshall and Davis were very much connected back in the early days. And this is where it gets into something personal to me because when I saw this connection, when you were bringing out this research to start with before I ever, you know, dug into it myself, you know, seeing the Upshall and Davis were connected and knowing how Davis and Brannum were connected, you know, it just made all the sense in the world by the time Upshall was invited to the healing service

in 1953 and supposedly got healed in Brannum service and came out of the wheelchair and was supposed to have been crippled all this time when there's evidence back in the early 20s as a Congressman, you know, he was not confined to a wheelchair barely owned his crutches and running around in halls of Congress as if he didn't need his crutches.

You know, to me, it just, it showed that there was some fraud there and so it was very clear to me at that time and that's really what sparked, you know, my mind and brought me out of my delusion.

Finally, I had to admit that there's something crooked going on here and I didn't know all the details of that time. So that's really what sparked it for me and that's why I wrote the book idea, just hopefully it sparked it to somebody else to show that connection because once you see it, you know, you can't unsee it at that point.

So Congressman, I'll address the church of the open door. Address on who shall rule the world by William upshall, you know? So that that harks back to probably something with the NIR who's going to rule the world with the manifest sons of God You know, we're going to rule the world according to their thinking and then another one there's an orphanage being started and everywhere they went You know they always talked about orphanages. I guess it was a good way to get state money You know to take in some children and of course a Roy Davis inflated the claims

Of how many children he took in I think they had about nine Back when they put their picture in the paper, but I think he actually said he had about 75 and this is where his legal Battles started with this orphanage here when they wanted to start this So one of the things that the sect that Roy Davis was Part of you know, they always wanted to start orphanages. So we find back in Jeffersonville they mentioned an orphanage maybe being started never never got off the ground They did get this one off the ground in

Upland and so they started this orphanage and they got this lady Usher to donate money to the cause and there was a lot of Bit some pieces here. We may not have time to go into it today But he only took in about nine children and he inflated his claims to say he had 75 and at that time the state was giving money Federal government had a program to give money for the food and he was he was actually Called out on that, you know, they they actually found out he was being he was lying about how many children he had

And the upshall was a part of this, you know, upshall was his treasurer at the time So we'll find out that they were promoting Americanism They were preaching in the areas holding singing conventions, you know starting an orphanage Just like they tried to do elsewhere to get that state money and to get people to donate to the calls You know that was promoted and this lady Usher was really the one that brought him down You know she became kind of suspicious of Roy After she gave him money and she gave him a lot of her life savings at the time

So so we're gonna find there's a lot of moving pieces there that we make we may go into here about Roy's and his orphanage Picture puzzle you've got all of these places where the puzzle pieces connect and we have solid connections between Angela's temple and Christian identity We also have Christian identity to Roy Davis and his agenda upshall on his agenda So it's not like they're directly connected, but it's a puzzle that it all fits together So next episode john it's gonna be so crazy interesting. We're we're gonna try to Untangle this big web that's been created

So if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information You can check us out on the web You can find us at William-Branum.org For more information about Roy Davis and William Branum Read the persuasive preacher the gifted prophet and the noble politician For more information about the Dark side of Latter-Rain read Weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

On Amazon, weaponized Religion from Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. On Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. On Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. On Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.