Our Stories - An Interview With Gaye Newman Lisby

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my very special guest, Gay Lisby, who spent part of her childhood in the Branham Cult. And Gay, it's very good to have you on today. We've been exchanging emails and phone calls and discussing some unusual connections to the message that you have and they're in areas that I've been digging. I don't know how much I'll say beyond that but anyway it's good to have you on here so

that you could tell a little bit about your story and what it was like growing up in the Branham Cult. First of all I want to thank you for what you're doing. I accidentally ran across your information via my baby brother who was looking up something on YouTube or something like that and he came across your old channel, the one that ended up getting hacked and whatever happened to it. I'm sorry about that because I know the motivation behind it was certainly not godly. So I listened to your video that shocked me at that time because even I

had grown up for a good segment of my childhood and you know what I'm referring now to the Branhamite, me and my baby brother referred to it as that Branhamite business. And most recently my dad referred to it as that mess. So I called it that mess. But I saw that video and it something in that video just rang so hard with me because you had mentioned about how they had edited those films of Branham and how I saw the bit about the prayer cards and how the prayer cards had the person's name and their address, the place for

their address and a place for their infirmity to be listed. And in my mind as I had gone on in a way. If from the brand of my business, I had still held in high regard, William Brandham himself, by saying in my mind, yeah, he just probably got off toward the end and some of those teachings, but he was a good man.

And so, when I saw those things and began to piece those things together and then find a lot more of your research in Charles Paisley's research, I realized I still had some of those cultist threads, does that make sense?

Yeah. You know, I've had several people, in fact, I was talking to this one guy that he was, I believe he was a music minister in respected church around here. He had been out for years and he was still kind of plagued by it.

He'd moved beyond the message. He realized that he had studied the Bible, so he knew the difference between the Bible and what William Brandham taught. But there were things like you're mentioning, the faith healing lines, et cetera.

He was also unaware that William Brandham had the people write down exactly what he was guessing on the platform. And for me, whenever I realized that, you know, that's a gimmick, that's just a trick and it's what a fraudster would do, and when I realized that it was fraud, I started digging for evidence of the fraud and I began publishing it.

And like you said, I had this fabulous original website and this YouTube site, I got, I was under all kinds of attacks, they launched a copyright strike attack and brought the first one down.

They've actually brought down two or three of my video sites and they've tried to attack the new one. But what they're trying to do is limit the exposure that can be achieved by this.

So what happens is it grows so big and then they bring the site down and then I have to grow a new one and it's this never ending. Well, I commend you, I commend you on doing it and persevering in that.

And as you were describing what those who are, you know, wanting to hide this information, when you're describing what these people are doing, it's exactly the opposite of what somebody would be doing with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The gospel of Jesus Christ, we want to spread it everywhere. We're not trying to take things down and limit it and not let somebody know this or that or the other about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

But these people are hiding his KKK affiliations and background. and beliefs. And these people are editing out so much of what we know today is a warrant to Christianity, to true Christianity. Why? Because it's not true Christianity. Yeah. It's some people call it the message, but like I said, most recently, my dad's been calling it that mess. Yeah. I've used that term it myself because how it's to be described, but it is it is a mess. And you know the clan is just one small aspect of this. There's so many different threads of research that I've gone down. And these aren't good threads of research. It's

not, you know, it's not on the up and up. For me, if there if there was any credibility to it, there would not be a need to suppress the information from getting out. And so, you know, there's something else going on the bottom line.

And like you said, it's not the gospel. Right. So I wasn't raised in this from the get go like you. I mean, you were like born and bred into it from the get go and and my coming into this was a little different, but it came through my dad. And at some point when I was a kindergarten or something like that, you know, they got the my dad convinced my mom to move from St. Louis to Alton Missouri. No, sorry, fair Missouri at that time, which my mom many years later called the end of the jumping off place. Because that I guess is where

you go to die because nobody nobody in their right mind should be from there. Anyways, we end up there. And as years go on, I realize we end up there because my uncle, my dad's brother had gotten him into this brand of my belief system. And for me, what it constituted at the time, as I'm a small child growing up, was you go into evening light, tabernacle and fair Missouri. And my dad played the piano. My dad kept the books for the church, you know, that was a bookkeeper. And he worked for the owner of the church. So that was convenient.

So I guess that's why we had to go there. I'm not sure. So we would all file in. There's six of us kids, you know, and mom and one and dad on the other end, that go up and play the piano, we'd sing some songs. And then

Paul, the owner of the church would get up and put on a tape. So we would listen to a tape and as a small child and I remember thinking of ways to even take toothpicks, sneak toothpicks down and keep my eyes open so it appeared that I was awake but I could still be asleep because I don't know from one end to the other what this man is saying and this garbled up sort of stuff and and we would always leave my dad would be angry just so angry it like I look back now on it and it was just almost demonic is just the way to say it

I mean he would be so angry and the opposite of what you think you should be when you're leaving church and I remember thinking even as a kid as I was growing that this it didn't feel it wasn't nice it wasn't like Jesus yeah but I knew what Jesus was like John because my mother was like Jesus you know I always say I learned the character and nature of the devil from my father and the character and nature of God from my mother she was a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and had been raised in St. Louis after some of the St. Louis revivals you know tenant revivals

and you know you're talking about putting the toothpicks in your I I've had the same exact thought myself and when we escaped I after years I was talking to my sons about it I have one son who is really old enough to remember pretty much everything he listened to every sermon and he's very attentive so he understood many things my middle son I think he he rarely remembers it but it was just that guy that sounded like Adolf Hitler to him and that's about about the extent of it but one of the things that I've came to realize over time is that and it's not just

William Brannum there are other ministers in the message who do this there is a hypnotic technique where if you can confuse the person's mind and get them into a state of confusion and then screen with authority you can hijack their minds and this is a you can go you can read hypnotic techniques on the internet you can find this and exercise that I tell people when they're thinking about leaving the message is to just get a transcript of one of the sermons of the ministers and try to read it and you'll find that it's not a simple cohesive thought when they're talking it's like Spaghetti

they're talking down one path and they bring in this other detail and this other story and by the end of it you really don't even know what the person has said when you read it and the irony of this is I've set through these meetings you think you do understand it you've convinced yourself that you understand this thing and they're not speaking in any cohesive thought and if an outsider were to come in and listen to it they would think what in the world are these people listening to?

They would be thinking that you have set a whole bunch of words none of it has made a difference or made sense it doesn't hang together and for me it always felt like it was so angry so angry and John here's the thing that was so damaging to me as a woman as a young girl listening to this and as a young girl you're as a young kid you know you listen and you try to understand parts you can understand does that make sense?

So like a kid you know can understand what a hog is if you grew up on a farm you know I understand what a hog is we had hogs and I understood that in one of his sermons that I'll never forget he likened women to hogs no better than hogs and dogs and that went really deep in me because here's this supposed to be held up to be someone God has been using for signs and wonders and miracles and revelations and the revelation is I'm a hog I'm nothing better than of it was devastating to my ability to see myself with any sense of value

which put me on a course for a lot of you know devaluing years of my life for what reason? You know the sermon you're referring to my grandfather used to play it multiple times a year I know it was at least once a year I think it was probably two or three times a year and he would always preface it with the statement that this is divine revelation this is one of the there were a few a handful of things that he claimed that William Brannum came to restore to the church of the last day and this sermon about the women being lower than a dog or a hog that was one of these

don't quote divine revelations. And for the women, I can't even imagine how devastating that would be, but for the boys who are growing up under this, they're being trained to denigrate women and they're being trained to insult them. And, you know, looking up, I was the same way I was indoctrinated the same way. I look back at the way that I would poke insults at my wife, for instance, whenever we were first early married. In a joking manner, you know, it's not like I was insulting her, but instead of lifting her up, it was putting her down.

And we weren't trained in the way that men should be. And it's something that even after leaving the cults, many men struggle with because they have this, they have such a wrong view of how women should be treated. And that was one of the divine mysteries that was allegedly brought by revelation to the last days. And I look back and maybe it was a revelation, but it didn't come from the, from the good side. Let me just say that revelation is a demonic revelation because the scripture is so clear when Jesus, he likened us Christians to the bride. And he says to through Paul,

husbands, love your wives as Christ lived the church. Christ never loved the church like a hog.

I mean, it's truly devastating garbage, but I think I have to pause here a moment and give some credit to the Holy Spirit working in my mother. She had had great training in the Lord, and in the scriptures before she married my father. And certainly before we got into that mess as, as he refers to it. Now, and there was a moment in time when we're going, now we're all having a herd down there to that church and sit there on the seat and listen to those tapes. And and my mom, we left us to bear quiet, very reserved, very shy lady. And she said,

I'm not going back there anymore. That's a cult. Now, this was back in 1974, 73, 74. And if you remember correctly, we were waiting for the rapture in 1977. So everything's geared to 1977. I mean, we all know the brand of my whole thing knew that that was the date is 1970.

That was that was the day that's been marked out and so everybody was preaching toward 1977 Now she's not 1973 74 and she's like this is a cult and She took my baby brother and my two small sisters, and she never went back But us three older kids had to go with my dad and So I was there from the time I was very small like I said probably about, you know five six seven years old Until I went to college at age 17, and that's when I escaped And boy was it a glorious escape

And for the listeners who are unaware this was one of William Brannum's There were several of these there wasn't just one but his most famous doomsday year that he predicted was 1977 and He always would preface it now. I don't prophesied this I instead predict it and To anybody who is outside of the cult that's ridiculous because if you're a prophet and you're divinely inspired saying things Your prediction is a prophecy But the cult draws this dividing line because he tried to talk out of both sides of his mouth He and in fact in his book or the the things the church age book he says I tell you by divine

Inspiration that 1977 is a year, but I don't prophesy it. Well, what what is divine revelation right and so to an outsider They realized that this is nothing more than double speak, but to people who were in it Leading up to 1977. This was a big deal. They were You can go back through the newspapers and you can find entire groups of people like there were people who there were churches in California that Migrated all the way to Louisiana because in the last day's scenario that was happening in 1977 The Los Angeles was supposed to sink the tidal waves would come so they prepared for the end and there were others that

It was kind of sad and ridiculous, but there were people who sold everything that they had Because they're not going to need it after 1977 And mentally that was their way of preparing for the end if I sell everything I have I'm not beholden to this world Well in 1978 they wished that they had everything that they sold this was a big deal and and though the cult tries to erase it It was part of the cult history what I think that struck me during those years where how we lived for that 1977 prediction and

As you already said this 1977 I'm a sophomore in high school

1978 came and I'm a junior in high school and I'm still here And the rapture hasn't happened And 1979 comes well I think For me, the blessing was that the bloom kind of was off the rose a little bit with my dad because of that failed prophecy.

He's questioning, you know, is this really real? Is this really, you know, and one day he came in from work and he worked for one of Billy Paul Brannum's, quote, unquote, best friends, that's how they referred to themselves.

And so my dad worked for them and was under that thumb and in many ways, but he came home one day and he threw into my lap these brochures about a little college and Branson Missouri called College Neozaks.

And I mean, me and my brother Keith were heading to graduate and never had a thought that I could go to college because hogs don't go to college, you know, we're not much of nothing.

Hogs and dogs, you know, I'll never forget, he threw that in my lap and he said, I found out about this college and you and Keith might want to go there. And I look back on it now and I see that it was his pitiful, weak effort to get us out to something perhaps better and a way because he really was questioning, is this thing real?

Is this the truth? Is this what is all of this that I've gotten into? And I just praised the Lord for that because we were blessed to go to College Neozaks, which is a Christian based college.

Two weeks after I arrived at College Neozaks, I ran the corner in my dormitory and there is a gal standing there that kind of looks like me, you know, got the panic hostile garb on, you know?

And she goes, do you have a church? And I said, no. And she goes, meet me at the parking lot that it is at 6.30 Wednesday at Tuesday night at youth service and we'll go to church.

And John, the Lord blessed me because we landed in a church that preached the scriptures. And I had never heard those before, like in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and the same was in the beginning with God.

All these glorious scriptures just he does preached the scriptures. He preached Jesus. He preached the six weeks after we got there. He preached. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? And I was like, wow, no, I didn't even know. I didn't know what was supposed to do. They kept saying those words through that cassette tape all the time. But nobody ever gave an alter call. Nobody ever invited me to be filled with the Holy Ghost. Are you kidding me? I was like, I was a bird out of prison. How bad? And it's made all

of the difference in the world to to how we're able to live our lives. We got out from under that rage is is the only word I can really give it. Is this rage that you would go and sit and listen to the tapes and then you would feel like you had been raged at. Yeah. And and you could see a lot of self-satisfaction on a couple of the men's faces like, yeah, we did a good job raging now.

Good job raging. That's all I have coughing in. And I bet God's proud of us now and it's so damaging to people who just want to hear the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. And he's so wonderful.

He's so wonderful. Why would Billy Paul even think to spend his entire life perpetrating a blood-faced lie and call it something even remotely connected. So the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. It's beyond me. I don't know Joseph from a cake of soap. I only know Billy Paul because he'd come to that church. You know, and we wouldn't listen to a tape then he would stand up and tell stories. And and I don't really know new him from a cake soap either. But but I'll tell you this. Listen a lot of effort to perpetrate lies that don't make any

wonderful eternal change in people's lives except drag them to hell. You brought back so many different memories. I remember as a as a kid when you're in one of these tape churches. And I've been to both. I've been to somewhere they preached and somewhere they played the tapes. But when you're in these tape churches, you're hearing William Brandham ranting, basic.

Especially, there's periods of time that change in his life. Towards the end of his life, everybody has cut him off. They realize that he's not only is he a white supremacist and a false prophet, he's also a con artist and many other things. And so they've cut him off and there were very limited numbers of people that would go see him. And so he became bitterly angry. And he became angry at all the other churches. And so you're listening to a man rant against all of the other churches. And that's what they called the gospel. So one of my first memories escaping

the messages, we went to a normal church that wasn't like this. And there was no ranting. And I was confused, man, why aren't they ranting? Why aren't they yelling at people and angry? And it didn't make sense. And they asked me, what is the gospel? And I actually struggled to answer this question. And every Christian should know it. I'd read my Bible. I knew I knew what was in the gospels. But I didn't know because they called this ranting. They called it the gospel. He's preaching the gospel. And so in my head, I'm thinking the gospel must be angry, must be ranting.

And like you mentioned, I went through the first series of sermons where they went through different books. And they would go through chapter by chapter. And they would, they taught me context basically because here's the chapter. And we just, we just studied the chapter before it. And we're going to study the chapter after it. And whenever they're referencing the content of the chapter, they're also telling you, now remember back in the chapter before this and the one before that. And suddenly none of the none of what they were saying about the Bible matched what I

thought, I believed. And I'm scratching my head thinking, what in the world was it? They taught me. And I had trained myself because I was in this nonsense. I trained myself to read the Bible like the ranting. And we had specific phrases that were overly emphasized because they were used for the rants. So when you're reading and you come to that phrase, well, all of the indoctrinated programming this in your head comes out in that chapter. And suddenly the chapter takes a new meaning. And in the end, I came to this conclusion. It took me a few years, but I came

to this conclusion. We had the Bible. We read it, but it was a different book than other Christians had because the way we were taught to read it was so far off the mark. Right. So far off the mark. And to hear the pure unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ preached that that we had a savior and that that he he wasn't bent on sending everyone to hell. You know, I remember William Brandham and one of the tapes, he says, you know, he gets up to heaven and I don't know if he saw this in a vision or whatever he did, but he gets there. And there was so few people. He was surprised by

how few people were there, and it was only the elect, you know, and it was just so few people. John, when I really read the gospels and I really read the glorious scriptures in Revelation, it talks about a multitude that it couldn't even be numbered.

It's wonderful because Jesus was all about coming to seek and to save that which was lost. He's not all about saying, you know, jump this high and give Billy Paul a good offering tonight.

We had to do that. We were told to give Billy Paul a good offering tonight. So, giving him a good offering tonight, and I guess you get a better seat, I don't know. Okay.

Can I pivot here just a minute and tell you what has happened since I've come across your information, and Charles Paisley's information, I've got you guys books, and I appreciate those. And I would encourage anyone.

If you have any little question mark, you know, skip the books and just read it, and then throw it away if you think they haven't proven it. I'll guarantee you one thing, you guys are real researchers.

I was astonished that almost every other sentence or assertion that you make in your books is verified with recorded information, news, clippings, tax documents, everything is just recorded there. It's, I mean, beautifully done.

So much so that I had nothing to say against it. I couldn't say where he's nuts, you know, he's wrong. It was overwhelmingly obvious. Well, you could probably still say that I'm nuts, and that part might be accurate, but I was made to be this way after.

I was made to be this way from in this, this nonsense. One of the problems that I had, I've actually written several books, and I've unpublished way more than I've written, because I would write my thoughts, and I didn't have all of those references.

But what I found was the history as it is, as it has been preserved, doesn't match the history that has been invented. And so if you write the actual history, nobody believes it. So in effect, we're having to rewrite history when we write these books.

So we're going through in almost, like you said, almost every sentence. I have a direct quote, even still because they've written it so far incorrectly, you don't have the entire picture. you're trying to understand history while you're writing it.

And even still, sometimes I miss it just a little bit because they have lied so much that to undo the lie, you have to understand what it was originally that they lied about. Right, right, and why they were lying.

What was their motivation when they were doing this? Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new Apostolic Reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top.

And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

So here's what's interesting to me. You know, I'm going through your books, I'm going through Charles Paisley's books, I'm listening to your podcast, and I'm, you know, this is like 45 years ago for me, you know, back there, the Brannumite stuff, 45 years ago.

You know, 45 years for me, it knowing the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, being filled with the Holy Spirit, loving the Scriptures and soaking and saturating myself in the Scriptures, and still, when I began to understand these facts and the information you guys brought forward, I had to arrest myself and go, where are these threads of Brannumite lies that are still left in me?

And Lord, get them out of me. Get them out of me. Because I don't want to be representing you and still holding up with William-Brannum going, well, he was a really good healer, and he had a lot of good gifts.

You know, he got off in his teaching in the last, but, you know, he really was one of the true prophets of the 20th century. Hogwash, hogwash, he was a lion deceiver, and that is devastating to think that so much- of my life was soaked in that. And furthermore, my 93-year-old father, who's still alive, has spent decade upon decade believing this. And I had to question now. I had Charles Paisley's book in one hand. I had your book in the other hand. My father lived in a cabin down the lane. It's like, what do I do? Do I just leave him? Do I just leave him to go ahead and

think what he's been thinking all these years? Or do I say something and he's probably going to reject it? He's probably going to get mad. He's probably going to get my land again or whatever.

And one day, I'm flipping through one of the books. I forgot which one it was at that time. And I hit upon the document where $100,000 or $100,000,000, Jehovah Gyra Foundation. I may have that figure wrong, but Jehovah Gyra Foundation all of a sudden has like X Brazilian dollars. I call it creative accounting.

And my father's former boss, his name is right there on the paperwork. And I went, are you kidding me? And the Lord just gave me wisdom. And he said, that's what you take to your father. So I took it to him. And I said, Dad, I said, I got a problem with this. I said, find it out some stuff about this brand of my business. And he goes, all that. Oh, yeah. And, you know, his brother's gone dead and gone now and not forcing him to go to church anymore.

Because his brother was a message preacher. And not forcing his, and the cousins don't have power over him anymore. They're not forcing him. And I said, did you know that Paul put his name on this document? And there's like, I don't know, that particular instant, I think, or that year was some like 59 million dollars in Jehovah Gyra. And that's a brand of my thing. And he was like stunned. Because these people have been working these poor and ignorant outlying people groups.

And talking them in. to be on something special, like you get to be the bride with the rest of us don't, and y'all do this and jump this high and give a good offering because Billy Paul's come today.

And they're got that kind of money. And when I showed that to my father, he was first stunned. Secondly, he goes, but what about the miracles? What about the little boy who's, and he tried to talk about America?

And I said, I said, dad, here's what I know. Document after document after document has proven William Branham's falsity, has proven Billy Paul Branham's falsity, has proven Joseph Branham's falsity. And he goes, well, who is this?

That's doing this, saying all this stuff. And I said, with that, you remember, you ever heard of brother and sister, Willard Collins? He goes, oh, yeah, brother Collins, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, brother said, Brett and Betty Collins, sure, huh?

Oh, yeah, I met him several times, man. I said, he's grandson.

And that got his attention. Because he was like, wait a minute, what do you have to gain by pulling this whole thing apart and let's do some truth to it? People don't realize I stood to lose a heck of a lot more than I stood to gain by doing it.

And in fact, I have lost quite a bit by doing it. But the truth had to be out there. You know what I mean? It's, I could not sit still knowing that this was all false.

While other people were struggling. And I mean, many people were donating their life savings to this group. And here, the year that I found that document that you're referring to, a hundred million dollars was donated into the main primary organization.

And so they did not lose their non-profit status. Creative accounting pushed that into a brand new organization. And the whole mess, you know, I look back and the year before this, my children were collecting penny jars for Jesus because they didn't have any money.

And they're telling people they have no money and here's a hundred million dollars you got to be kidding me. It's criminal. Criminal is moral and ethically criminal. It's in every way criminal. And it really speaks to why and this is such a picture in my mind that when you guys did the podcast on the gravestones that are up there in the Brownamite cemetery.

and then you guys get to Billy Paul's own grave stone. Now here's all of these people who gave their lives and their money and their children and their everything for this brand of my stuff.

And they put his scriptures and they, he's the prophet on their grave stone. And Billy Paul couldn't be bothered to do that. For his own daddy that was supposed to be the prophet, couldn't be bothered. All he says come walk with me by some little stream.

Okay. What a wussy. What a wussy. Geez. Couldn't even stand up for his own lies on his grave stone. Lord have mercy. I strongly suspect that neither he nor his brother believe any of this, but it is a really, really good way to make money.

I guess it's been an awesome way for them to make money. And I guess they either, A, have deceived themselves so firmly in the idea that maybe Jesus is sorry to come and maybe this is, you know, eat drink and be married for tomorrow we die.

There's nothing after this. I can't figure out why the fear of God is not in them. I can't figure out why the fear of God was not in Billy Paul before he lost himself to cancer.

I can't figure out why those who perpetrate this lie are so in love with it. The only reason for me really to speak to this community that might hear this, to the brand of my community, someone in there that might hear this, is my cousins are still in this.

My father's brother was a message minister and talk about gifted to rage. He was a gifted rager. So gifted to rage, we never had anything to do with him. And my father would rarely have anything to do with him unless he had to go play the piano on the services because he didn't like it.

And he was afraid of him. And he was not a very nice person. But my cousins are some of them right there in Jeffersonville. Some of them are probably already buying plots of cemetery ground so they can get nearest the pyramid they can get nearest to.

And I want them to question this. I want them to go. look who's winning here it's not you guys live in poor like that it's those guys live in rich off of this lie and you guys are sacrificing for nothing and it it just tears me up it tears me up yeah it tears me up too it's hard to imagine that I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people it's just simply more comfortable because it is devastating to try to leave a cult you leave and every single person that you ever knew and loved cut you off and many of them

the rage that they hear in the sermons they've been trained to do this so then that rage is pointed at you and you know before you make the decision to leave and such step the foot out the door you know exactly what's gonna happen to you by every single person who you ever knew and so it's just it's uncomfortable for people to leave I have in fact I've had people who one person even called me up and said look man I I know what you're saying is right but I would lose everything and I don't believe it they said this which is odd to me I don't

believe it but I'm still gonna go to church so I can keep the peace in the family well what is church man what the church is not this it's not meant to be teaching rage against your brother and those who don't agree with you suddenly you just cut them off and treat them like this so in the end what it gives them is a life that isn't fulfilled and it puts them on a slippery slope to hell because there's only one Savior the Lord Jesus Christ there is no such thing as Lord Branagh there is no such thing as Lord Branagh there's only one Lord

Jesus Christ and he came to seek and to save that which was lost and he died for us and William Branagh didn't die for us and by George he didn't resurrect for us either no matter how many times they stand around that pyramid he ain't coming out like that he's a bunch of bones if that underneath that it's just so hard to believe I remember whenever I first started doing this back in 2000 or the 2012 there was a one of the news people actually contacted me and I was on the news in silhouette and back then I was just a scared ex cult

member I told them in fact I was so scared I told them don't even use the word cult because at that point in time I couldn't yet call it that and the very first question they asked me is is this the same cult and he was not afraid to use the word is this the same cult where the people go every Easter to rise up out of the the grave. And that was the first time really that it ever had hit me, that that's what people did. I knew it. You know, I grew up and people were doing it every year. But

it was the first time that I really acknowledged how wrong it was that they were doing that. And then through the research, I'm sure you've read it, but I learned that my grandfather and key figures in the message basically propagated that as a lie to keep all the people in the cult after he died, just so that the money would continue to flow.

Right. And it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God and to do exactly what they have done, which is to take the holy scriptures and add to them and say, okay, well, here's the revelation of the mystery. Gosh, it's, uh, it's William Brannum. Wasn't that convenient? I would be more inclined to believe it if Joseph Brannum would give up his hundred million dollars and put some sandals on and walk across America, try to bring people to the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, that ain't going to happen because they got themselves a nice little empire on the backs of poor ignorant, um, in many ways ignorant

of the scriptures, because they keep you ignorant of the scriptures. They don't ever say, you know, open your Bible to chapter, whatever. And we're going to start working through this first by verse, you know, the very next thing they do is say, and William Brannum said, and William Brannum said, and William Brannum said, don't be telling me that. Give me the holy scriptures. And let me see what Jesus said. And we're going to line it up. And I found out, man, it doesn't line up with nothing. And I, I am so thankful, tell Charles Paisley that I'm so thankful for the work you guys have done and others have done. I'm

so proud of those who have made these hard sacrifices to come out. For me, it was easy because I was more or less. If you could say it like this, I was sent out, you know, two brochures were dropped into my lap that opened an opportunity for me to go to a college and work my way through college. And I got to go get out of the tiny, that tiny belief system, that suffocating belief system. I got to get out and I found out what my mom had felt years and years earlier that it was a cult that I found out really was a cult. And

John! So proud of my mother. She was 89. She passed away in January, you know, but in 1973 or 1974, she realizes by the power of the Holy Spirit working in her and the true knowledge of the scriptures she realizes this is a cult and she did the best she could. She couldn't take all of us but she took at least three of them and got those little ones out that they never had to be raised up in this council. And that's good. If you could go back in time to back when you were a little

girl and the man on the recording is calling you lower than a hog or lower than a dog, what would you tell the little girl to give her some encouragement? I would say hold on because Jesus sees you and he hasn't forgotten you and he cherishes you and he didn't think you were a hog.

He gave his life for you and he's going to make a way for you to get out and hear the truth of Jesus Christ and fall in love with the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. Hold on. Don't give up. It's a better day coming. That's what I would say. That was one of my favorite songs. I want to say it was maybe the cathedrals that there's a song called Hold On and it was basically saying exactly what you're saying. I used to love that song growing up but thank you so much for doing this. I know that everybody who's listening is going to find a lot of encouragement from this.

I appreciate you having me on today and let me share my heart and once again I just want to say how thankful to God I am for you and Charles being obedient others who they never know to be obedient to research to dig to find to ask questions to seek for the truth and to love the truth.

I may never see you again on this side but when I see you over there I'll give you a big old hug and give Charles a big old hug and you can't do that in brand of my business but in heaven we can do that. Give a big old hug and say thank you. Thank you for the hard times you endured. Thank you for the I can't imagine the heartbreak you endured but thank you because you helped me and you helped my 93 year old father.

who after he considered what had he had read and what I had shared with him. He got up and he took that picture of random off the wall with that halo, suppose it halo. Everybody else has too. If they were, their picture was taken in the same stadium, they got the same halo. He took that picture off the wall and then he said, I don't know what I'm going to put up there. I said, put a picture of your mom up there because she really didn't know Jesus. And the next time I went down to his cabin to visit him, there he is, got a picture

of his mom up there. And that picture of the false prophet is gone because William random was a false prophet. He lied to the people. He lied to himself. He lied to God. And I'm so thankful for people like you who look for the truth. Well, thank you. And like I said, I'm so glad that you're sharing your story. It'll give a lot of other people encouragement.

If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org. For more about the dark side of the new Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Soon, Audible.