Missionaries, Money, and Manipulation: The Spread of Branham's Message

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend Charles Paisley, the founder of ChristianGospelChurch.org and the author of come out of her, my people. Charles, it's good to be back and to continue this discussion on the spreading of the message after the message should have imploded and it's kind of funny when you think about how all of this came to be because it really just should have fizzled out and when you think of all of the

charismatic leaders that thought that they were going to become the next, basically the next William Branham as they're stepping up. From underneath them this thing started growing and evolving and growing bigger and bigger and it never really took it over, cares mainly of one obviously, but it's kind of odd when you think of how this grew and spread afterwards. I've mentioned before my research was heavily focused on the mid-1800s through 1965 when William Branham died and then I kind of pick up again in the 90s whenever Branhamism started to come back into the United States through Paul Cain and

others, but this area of history that you've researched, it's just fascinating to me. I'm learning something new every day even in the conversations we have before the podcast, so this is going to be a wild ride. I know John, I'm looking forward to it. These things are very interesting to me too John and to me and you, I mean our families live right through this period of time. They were connected to lots of facets of what was going on and they were at the very part of these things when they were happening. Besides that, having lived in

Jeffersonville our whole lives, we have known the eyewitnesses that we're basically known all the key players through this period of time. We've got ways we can put things together just from that. As I think about how the message survived the death of William Branham, there are several factors I think that are really big keys to how it survived and we've I've tried to talk about them and you know since we started this new series up until this point and some of those factors are number one, they found a way to plug all the holes in the religion,

caused by the death of William Brown. And the two sects had different ways to do it, right? The main sect used return ministry ideas as their short-term patch, and eventually, they spawned ways to spiritualize other things, whereas the sect of the message I come from went straight into spiritualizing everything.

And so in that way was maybe a little ahead of the curve of what some of the other people in the main sect eventually did. That was one thing. Another thing that helped them survive was the full gospel businessmen.

They were there to pour money into the movement at a critical point in time in order to keep it afloat and in order to keep it moving forward. The other thing that was really critical was there were, there were truly 35 message churches with a dedicated group of followers to William Brown.

I'm even though they were divided into two sects by the time you come to 1969. And I do believe on the schism itself is part of what drove the expansion. Because as the two sides are separating, they are a part of the original push of these guys that are going out all over North America is to get more people on their side to fight the other sect.

That was a factor motivating all of this. And they were going out to all the places where William Brown have had influence and they were trying to draw people into their side of the schism.

And it was actually that schism that started this first missionary push. I think we mentioned that in our last episode. And as that happened and they're going out and drawing people into their side of this fight, just a natural side effect of it is they're picking up other people in these churches too, right?

Because they're going to a church that had two or three or four or maybe several more than that, even people who were in William Brown's cult following and they were trying to appeal to them, but as they made that appeal to them to join their sect of the message or their side of things, there's other people in the church that followed along too.

So they were drawing the people out of these churches and they're going all around the broader ladder of reign movement, all around the other places that William Brown was welcome. So even outside of the ladder of reign movement, like the UPC that we've mentioned in other places, four square.

And they're just drawing these people out. And in North America, that is how this starts. It is an appeal to the people who were already familiar with Brannum, who had been to William Brown's revivals, who had known him, who had actually accepted a lot of his teachings and who were in non-message churches.

And as the leaders of these 35 original message churches go out all around these places, they're convincing people here and there to separate from whatever church they're in, whether that's the UPC, whether it was four square, whether it was the independent assemblies of God, whether it was the full gospel churches.

They're convincing them to break away from those churches. and they're convincing them to start new message churches in order to prepare for the rapture because part of the message is if you are in a denomination you are going to take the mark of the beast and burn up you're not going to get to go in the rapture so that you have to come out of her my people right that was that's what the phrase come out of her my people means you must come out of every group in denomination separate yourselves in order to prepare for the rapture that's actually

why I titled my book come out of her my people John because as I would say when you asked our churches what is the message we would say the message is come out of her my people it's another phrase for the message so that's exactly what they were preaching back then and they were very successful around North America and as this period we're looking at specifically 69 70 71 72 in that period of time we went from about 35 message churches here in North America we grew to several hundred I'd say at least 200 churches just in North America by 72 and 73 as a result of

these preachers going simply to the places William Brandon was already known and saying the prophet has come look 1967 war Jerusalem has been recaptured you must separate and prepare because if you wait to them start building the temple it's going to be too late you must separate now you must prepare now you must be ready now you must have the prophet has come you must have the revelation of the seals in order to have the capstone ministry in order to go in the rapture you know the midnight cry has come you must hear the shout like you could go through all the message buzzwords this is what they

are doing in 69 70 71 72 in all these places of people that William Brandon has touched and rolling out in establishing these churches you can see I'm bottling up my laughter I'm trying to contain it because this is a serious thing we're talking about but if you really think about what happened it's like a really bad comedy movie I mean I used I think it was in the last episode maybe the one before that I used the title that this was like a virus and I never really as I was thinking through naming the title of the episode I realized I've never really expanded upon that

very much but what happens in these churches it's kind of odd because the phrase come out of her my people when ladder rain began it began as the system to create a cult in other words you're in the denominations we tell you that the denominations are cold and formal you need to come out of her my people and join our cult that's how this began right and before that because nobody would just join this kind of thing it was instead everybody's welcome every to domination is good if they draw you out of their circle draw a bigger circle draw them back in and then once the cult began to form

it was now come out of those things that we said we're good so the problem that was created and it got exponentially worse after William Brandham died. The recordings still contain that phrase, come out of her, my people and that theme come out of her, my people and it describes the reasons why you come out of an organized religion and it goes through the list of things that name them as an organization and as a problem to Christianity in the eyes of the message.

Then, after William Brandham dies, you have all of these splinter groups, all of these sects. They grow and they build up until they become the very thing that William Brandham preached against and so the mindset is to come out of her, my people so they come out of that splinter group and what happens is they create usually a tape home.

So one or two or three families, they say, we're coming out of her, my people, just like the prophet said, we're gonna fellowship in this small group. Well, then what happens is they invite friends and then this builds into a church and they rent a building, this becomes a movement, this becomes a splinter group until it's time to come out of her again, my people.

So this thing grows and evolves but if you think about the systematic growth and expansion and implosion and regrowth, it's really like a virus. Each little tape home is just a cell of a virus and then it grows until it turns into something that needs an injection to kill it and then it dissolves but that cell is still there.

These cells are everywhere and the areas you're talking about, Belgium and other ones, I've had long conversations with news media, national news media in these areas and they just can't believe that these splinter cells exist in these tape homes.

So they went and they started interviewing people and I think they also use the word virus because that's what it is. This is a virus that the plague is worldwide. You're very right in how this thing splits and schisms, John.

And as time goes on, it accelerates. I would say by the time you get to 1980, there are multiple schisms every single year, since 1980 in the message. I mean, it is non-stop schism.

The rate accelerated. It was already schism you see in 69, 68, but it accelerated as time went on to the point that it is just non-stop schism today and has been for decades. You're right.

And so I think in our last episode, we talked a lot about North America, how the message community got planted in North America. And today I think, yeah, we wanna try and go overseas and talk about what was happening overseas and how some of that, the initial pieces of that happened.

And the message as we know it today started really in these years, right? Because as I mentioned, when William Brown died, there was only 35 message churches. The majority of message people were in churches of the block, broader, ladder, rain movement.

And... You talk about the come out of where my people how that you know still goes on today. Well that was going on before too because that come out of her My people message John that was part of the latter rain movement like William Branham did not invent these things ladies General you think so you've been fooled the latter rain movement was teaching that before William Branham Yeah, and these people in these churches were already of that mind They had already come out of the denominations when they joined the independent assemblies of God That's what they thought they were doing then right they these people had already thought they had come out of her my people

All things to discover oh wait the independent assemblies God is another one. We've got to come out of her my people and so it's It the that message resonated to these people because this is not the first time that they have come out of her my people Okay, that's part of why You know these this didn't happen them just going up to random people on the street and saying this to them Now they were going to people who are already familiar with this terminology who are already familiar with this ideology who'd been influenced by the

Laterane movement and this resonated with them. Okay, the message the message John and I think you know this is true Right the message does not primarily recruit people off the street the message almost entirely when it recruits new members Praise like a parasite upon the Pentecostal church world when you say that is exactly how it happened We don't go convert random people week you go into you in you you you you infiltrate They infiltrate a Pentecostal which cares Matic type church where all of this terminology and ideology has some Has some existence already and like a parasite you suck you suck a life out of it you suck people out of it and convince them

You were you know, yes, you believe although yes, the gifts of the spirit very good Yes, the Godhead you're you're right, you know, they go down the list But did you know that God sent a prophet?

No, and that's how they appeal to them and then once they guess God sent a prophet now You must get ready for the rapture the Malachi the prophet Elijah has come to restore us to the perfect come my brother Come to the message that will get you ready for the rapture and and that is how the appeal happens and that Appeal does not work on on the average man off the street very well But I'll tell you it does work fairly well on it works on a Pentecostal or a charismatic from this later Danish background

It works very well on them. So that's what's happening in North America But when you think about outside of North America John That don't work so well because the latter rain didn't have as big of an impact in Europe or Africa or South America at that time as it did Right, William Brandon had toured a lot in America. He had got lots of people in America on his side And so there was an ability to do that in America in a way that wasn't quite the same overseas But as you as we move over to Europe and start talking

about Europe today, John, I want to just hope our listeners will notice the same trend. It is the same sort of Pentecostal type groups where the initial successes happen overseas in Europe. So let's talk about the very first one, John, of how the message spread in Europe.

There were three main missionary events or missionaries that led to the establishment of the European message community. And when William Brown had died, there was one message church in Europe. It was Ewald Frank's church in Crevfield, Germany.

At that time, they did not have their own building. They met in a branded hall, which they continued to do until about 1975 or 74. That's the year they actually built the Crevfield 3 mission.

I believe it was 74. It's corrected. I believe it's right in the last edition of the book, so 74. But they were the first church, but they were not the only European message believers.

And the first one I want to talk about today, John, is a man named Levi Larson. Levi Larson. We mentioned him back when we did the historical research podcast. Now who is Levi Larson?

Levi Larson was one of the international missionaries of the message. He was a Norwegian. He was picked up into William Brownham's cult of personality in the 1950s when William Brownham did his tours of Europe.

And he moved back to Jeffersonville. He was just intrigued by William Brownham. He moved to Jeffersonville and he started attending the Brownham Tabernacle, John. And of course, he absorbed the message in the Brownham Tabernacle.

And through those years, Levi Larson, the way the message churches were here in Jefferson ville back then, is they staggered their services. So there was a message church service every single night of the week.

So Monday, you could go to Don Ruddle's church, Tuesday, you could go to Metcalfe's church. Wednesday, you could go to the Brownham Tabernacle service. Thursday, you could come to my church, and as is how it was, and then Sunday, you could have your pick.

The Brownham was in town, everyone went to the tabernacle. Anyways, this is what a lot of the early message people did. They went to church every single night of the week, John, for years back then.

And Levi Larson would come to our church at our midweek service, and he actually met his wife and married someone out of my church. Well, after William Brownham died, he ended up on our side of the message schism.

And he kind of got disgusted with what had happened at the Brownham Tabernacle, and he went back to Europe. He went back to Norway. And when he did, he went back, I believe, in 1968, was when he moved back, right, as that ugly schism was unfolded.

It might have been 1967. But what he did is he got a hold of a copy of the Deep Cult, The Deep Cape, from Perry Green. And he would start, he basically, and do an advertisement in the Moot- in the newspaper that he was gonna have a motion picture screening that he would invite the community to come.

So he would go from town to town to town across Scandinavia. He would play the Deep Call of the Deep video and he would invite the local community through the newspaper. They'd watch the Deep Call of the Deep and you know, it was the same pitch.

Hey, did you see the goiter fall off that woman? Did you see that precious little Carol Roode Strubler healed of leukemia who actually died two weeks later? And he would convince them, hey, this is the prophet, he's come to Norway and he's come to Scandinavia.

And look, the temple has been built in Jerusalem. The temple's gonna be built in Jerusalem because they just, did you just took over the usual Jerusalem and the same sort of a pitch and he would convince them.

Now it's time to come out of the church that you're in. And the people that he's attracting, John, are guess who? Members of the independent assemblies of God. The independent assemblies of God actually had a very strong presence in Scandinavia.

And those churches were really who sponsored William Brannem's tours over there. And so Levi Larson is touring Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, that area, doing this and he is planting the original churches of Scandinavia as he does this using the same pattern that's following over in Europe.

He is attracting people who have, who are Pentecostals of the independent assemblies of God. He's, you know, pointing out the stuff about William Brannem, they already have some familiarity with him. And he's convincing them to come out and start their own churches.

And as he's doing that, he is also attracting some non-message people to those events. And they're, they're also, or I should say, some non-Pentecostal people to those events. And they're also coming out. And he plants, John, he plants, I wanna say, roughly 40 churches, house churches at that time, in Scandinavia, in 69, 70, 71, 72.

It's a dramatic planting of message churches in Europe. And at the time when they all start, John, they're all churches of my sect, okay? Just the same as Eastern Canada. Later on, we'll explain how they break up and they end up going other sects and stuff, the same as Eastern Canada.

They eventually broke up and some of them went to other sects of the message. But there at the start, all the churches in Scandinavia were originally part of my sect of the message, John.

And another thing contributing to its spread, if you take the early years of Latterin, all of the things that Latterin was built upon, specifically the global turmoil that existed with World War II. There were a lot of religious themes that gained a lot of steam, especially in the years, shortly after World War II.

Those themes made it into the message and they became core foundation of the message. For example, William Branagh's prophecies, many of them are about events that happened in World War II. Well, this grew, you had the women's lib movement, et cetera, that kind of brought a resurgence to this.

the 60s, the themes that William Brown and preached against the heaviest became a significant problem in the 60s, and then they kind of faded out. Well, you see this weird reemergence of everything that he was preaching against prophetically in different ways.

It didn't come out exactly as his prophecy said, but they reemerged. You had things like the, what's it called, I think it's the Warsaw Pact, where they're trying to bring peace together. Well, in the mid 70s, there becomes this significant conflict between NATO and the Warsaw Pact treaties, and their sphere that Russia is not going to honor the friendship pact.

And so everybody starts building this massive arms race, right? Well, these message ministers use this to help grow all of this mess, because they can actually bring in people who've never heard the message before.

Some of them not even Pentecostal, and say, look, this guy from back in the 1940s is saying exactly what we see right now, and they don't tell them that, no, it's quite a bit different than what he said, because he was referring to a different time period, but they find all of the similarities, they list them, they bring the people in together, and they say, this is what he prophesied.

See, it's exactly dead on. And the people get hooked and sucked into the cult before they actually realize, no, this doesn't quite match, but this is a different era, different, everything's different. And, but the problem is they're assimilated before this happens.

So that, the world events that were happening in the mid 70s and 80s, kind of contributed to the spread of this to non-message people, but then to the people who were in the cults, it solidified their position in the cult, because they see the world events around them, they too don't go back to what William Branneman's, look what he actually said, does this actually match?

Instead, they listen to what the preacher says and they parrot it. So because nobody really goes back and confirms, do all the details of this prophecy match, you have this growing and continuing mess, that like I said, it's a virus that's infecting the world, and it continues to grow through the 80s.

What's interesting is, as those grew and when they split, they all disavow each other. And so, like I never knew some of this exists, I never knew how widespread the message was, because we disavowed many of those sects.

You were in the almost the same city we were in, and we just didn't even know any of the people existed. That's how bad this is. So as the virus mutates, the virus itself doesn't understand itself.

Yes, the most we would do, right, is just stare narrowly at each other across the keyboard, right? Yeah. Oh my, so as Levi Larson is, you know, doing his bit across Norway, you know, it's the same situation actually, John, and he invites Raymond Jackson and my sect of the messages North American preachers, and they're going over and they're having convention revivals in Scandinavia in 1970, 1971, 1972, you know, the same, it's immediately after all the planning happens in Canada. If it time-wise, the planting in Europe is happening at the same time as the planting in Canada, but the preachers go to Canada a lot in 1969 and

1970, but then it's 1771 that they start taking on Europe. So Canada gets the first big emphasis, you know, as these years unfold and then Europe comes in a year and two later, getting the emphasis and treatment from the North American preachers. Now, there's another thing going on in Europe back then that maybe we wouldn't think about today, but it's worth pointing out. World War II was not all that long ago back then, right? It was still fresh in everyone's mind, you know, millions of people had been killed by Hitler and all of that, and

although Ewald Frank was the first message preacher who'd have a church in Europe, a large fraction of Europe was not, you know, interested in listening to screaming Germans. You know what I mean? So the allied countries, John, Ewald Frank did not have such a big influence in that part of Europe because, you know, of the, you know, their history with screaming Germans. And so what happens is Levi Larson, like I mentioned, he's working in Scandinavia. Well, there's something else happening in France and Belgium and Holland and Switzerland. There was a, here we go again, a

United Pentecostal church missionary. His name was Anthony Garrettson. He was in the 60s. He was working in Belgium and the Netherlands as a missionary for the UPC planting UPC churches. Well, he was not, again, he wasn't outright overtly in the message or overtly preaching the message, but as he planted these churches, he had in his possession a substantial amount of message literature that he had got from spoken word publication, John. And something happens and Anthony Garrettson ends up ending his missionary work and going back to America. But as he does, he leaves behind all of his message literature in his office at the church at a UPC church in Belgium.

Guess what happens? The people in the church after he leaves goes in his office and they discover the spoken word books. that the UPC minister had left behind and they're thumbing through them and they begin to realize this is what he was preaching to us and they're like oh wow we found you know the source of the revel and they start learning about the prophet as they're reading the books the message literature that the UPC missionary left behind and what happens in I believe it's either 1968 or 1969 I believe it was 69 they reach out to spoken word publications and they say we would like more

okay all right there's their hook now aren't they John we would like more and so and please send us some missionaries from the message and so what happens they start sending message preachers over to this UPC community in Belgium or Northern France the Netherlands Switzerland and the message preachers are invited to around there and well guess what happens they start to create message churches all through that area and so how that breaks down John as you end up with several I would I want to say in the neighborhood of 25 message churches in Belgium in France in

the Netherlands in Switzerland and they eventually move over they plant some in the UK but this is what plants the original message churches John in that part of the world they weren't out of evil francs this is what a UPC missionary accidentally planted the message churches

in that part of the country in that part of the world I got more to say about it but I'll let you have a turn yeah I'm dying laughing man the irony of this is so unbelievable because we've talked about it before William Brannum did not understand the Bible that he taught from and they respect him as a Bible teacher and so whatever he says no matter how insane it is the ministers will pair at that and one of one of my favorite mistakes that he made sums up the whole ministry and it really sums up what this guy did by leaving all of the materials behind William Brannum

falsely taught the people to believe that when the Bible says where the carcasses the eagles will gather that the eagles are the good guys and the carcass is his words that's literally what he taught and if you understand what that phrase meant to you know to the people who don't read the Bible and who don't really understand what the word carcass means it means where the rotten nasty corpse is laying the birds of prey are going to come and rip the flesh out of it because their birds of prey and they don't eat the good stuff they eat the rotten flesh so William

Brannum taught that his words the things that he were that were left behind by this minister that all of these people came it matches perfectly man where the rotten nasty is laying, there's where the vultures are going to come.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

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As these churches get started in this part of the world, this part of Europe and France and Belgium and the Netherlands and Switzerland, they form a special relationship with a man named Tommy Dillard.

Tommy Dillard was a minister of another message church here in Indiana, Fort Wayne, Indiana, his tabernacle. His church was called Charity Tabernacle in Fort Wayne. They had actually, Charity Tabernacle was planted, it really took off in, I want to say 69 and 70, right in that same time period.

It wasn't too big back then, but it was one, it was a church that I believe had actually got started out of, I mentioned there was a radio station in Lima, Ohio, that the message set up, funded by the full gospel businessmen.

Anyways, that is what I believe recruited his church into the message. He heard that radio broadcast, they joined the message. Anyways, he ends up forming a, it was a good-sized church, a special relationship with these new churches in Europe that I've mentioned.

And they're touring a lot and he ends up introducing them to Joseph Colman, John. And a lot of the churches in that part of Europe end up in the thunders, which we're going to talk about the thunders at some point.

But at first, they're main sect, okay? They're main sect, but they're going to turn into the thunders. So if you think about this now, we've got two message factions operating in Europe, my sect, the sect, they're mostly going to turn into the thunders, the main sect.

And then we've also got Ewald Frank. And he's the one I think we should probably talk about, probably talk about the most, because it's by far the most important. Ewald Frank ends up the leader of the second largest sect of the message in the world.

And a very, very, very important figure in the message. So his church, John, like I mentioned, in Crefield, his church started out as just in Ranted Halls. It wasn't the building. They didn't get a building until I believe 1974.

when they built the present Cretfield Mission Center there. And what was going on there that let him be so popular? How did he grow so big? And the initial answer, John, is that he had a radio program on Radio Luxembourg.

And that program, and maybe some people over there in Europe who are familiar with this, might be able to give us a little more information about the frequency. But my understanding, it was a weekly radio program.

I believe it was a 20-minute long program on Radio Luxembourg. In that 20-minute program, he would preach a little sermon. And oftentimes, he would include things that would attract people to the message. Radio Luxembourg back then was the most powerful listen to widely, you know, biggest reach.

You could be heard all over Europe, the biggest radio station in all of Europe. It could reach any part of the continent. And it was a German language radio station. And back then, Germany was the most widely spoken language in Europe.

So that was, if you wanted to get as most people in Europe as possible, as wide a reach as possible, Radio Luxembourg could reach the largest number of people in Europe. And so just like in the Midwest, you know, the radio station is helping attract people to the message community.

In Europe, Ewald Frank's program on Radio Luxembourg is attracting people to the message. And as that happens, that opens doors for Ewald Frank across, you know, if you think the last groups I talked about were kind of in the Allied nations.

Well, the Axis nations are interested in hearing what Ewald Frank has to say. Germany, the Germans are inviting him, the Italians are inviting him. He's even John sneaking behind the Iron Curtain into East Germany, into Czechoslovakia, into Hungary, into Romania, into, you know, those Poland.

He's sneaking into the Soviet countries and also speaking to people there through invitations. So he's basically, through that whole, I'll say, Axis Europe and Eastern Europe, he's planting churches and making contacts through that radio program.

And as he's invited, he will go to those churches. And he had a very standard missionary sermon that he would preach. And there are copies of his missionary sermons around who you can listen to.

And he would basically, he would go the same similar pitch. He would go to Malachi 4, he would say the prophet of Malachi 4 has come. I was in eyewitness, here's the things I saw.

And what you need to do is you need to prepare for the rapture, prepare for the rapture, you need his message, and here I am to share his message with you. And so, Ewald Frank is...

basically doing that. And that is how he plants many of the original message churches in, I'll say, Axis Europe and Eastern Europe. And through that period of time, John, I would say he's, he plants based on what I've been able to kind of estimate and through talking to people. I would say he plants somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 message churches by 1972 and 73. Most of them are house churches. None of them are formal church buildings in this phase. Some of a few of the larger groups have rented halls. But that's what he's doing up through 71-72 in that period of time.

And the very first church building of his sect that actually gets built was built in 74 when they built their own church. And I would say, again, based on what I understand, they grow to several thousand people, perhaps in all of his associated groups, perhaps 5,000 people by 1973-45 right in there. And perhaps 50 different groups all across Axis Europe and Eastern Europe.

I know it's a tangent, but I have to mention it. Radio Luxembourg, one of the interesting facts about this radio station is that during the war when the United States was coming in trying to take over, this was used as a United States propaganda machine. It's called black propaganda where they come in, they take something over, and it operates under the disguise of something other than its intent. But the United States was basically using it to push propaganda to try to sway basically psychological warfare is what this is. And then when you think about Ewald Frank using

this, it's using psychological warfare for the message call. So the connections, it's really weird to think about it. I know that we could probably spin off and do five episodes on Ewald Frank in his history and his connections. And we will, his connections to everything we've talked about. I write about him a good bit in my book, uh, from Lateran to Colony, Dignidad, because the spreading of this and the things that are involved when you think of the Germans and post-war mess. I'll just put it like that. It's really unbelievable. And to think that this was

embedded in the message and it came in through people like Ewald Frank is unbelievable. When you realize he is got a program on the American propaganda station, you know he's working with Paul Schaefer in Chile. Yeah. Uh, we know we talk about the stuff he's doing in Africa and DRC and others. I mean, it's something weird is going on there, John. You know, and I don't like to be conspiratorial. I don't know. I do not know just exactly what- Something is happening with Ewald Frank, OK?

Absolutely. And maybe one day, we will know the whole story. But today, we just don't know the whole story. But something weird is happening with Ewald Frank and what's going on back then. I don't know.

And I don't think necessarily that, you know, I'm not saying the United States government believes the message and promoting the message or nothing like that. But Ewald Frank had something to do with clandestine operations in some capacity back then.

I think that is safe to say. But just what, it's hard to lay your finger on it. It's hard to know. It's hard to know what was sanctioned versus, you know, other people have nefarious purposes.

There's just so many unknowns there. But Ewald Frank's definitely involved in something clandestine for a large part of his life, not all of his life. Now, Ewald Frank, for our listeners, Ewald Frank lived in Canada through World War II.

He actually moved there before the war started. He had been living there and through the latter reign revivals, right? And that's how he got introduced to all this stuff. And Ewald Frank always spoke a very good English, but he spoke English with a Canadian accent.

And if you ever listen to him, and now I say that out loud, you'll probably be able to pick it up real easy. But he spoke English with a Canadian accent, because he lived so much of his life in Canada before going to Germany to do this stuff.

And he was already in Pentecostalism and Laterane before he went to Germany and, you know, I started doing stuff with William Brown. I look forward to doing a full episode on Ewald Frank and his sect of the message when we have some opportunities.

Because the really interesting stuff happens after, as you get into the 80s, John, with Ewald Frank, the stuff that's pretty interestingly shocking, you know, stuff. So Ewald Frank's passed away. He passed away what?

He passed away two years ago. He's actually very long lived. So this is 2025 now. I think he died in 2023, I think, or maybe 24. But anyways, Ewald Frank, he had that radio program.

You know, that was one of the big things. Another thing that was going on back then, though, John, is that Ewald Frank was very ecumenical. So Ewald Frank worked with my sect of the message.

He worked with the main sect of the message. A lot of the schisms that happened in America and was dividing the North American message community, Ewald Frank kind of navigated that in a way that he was able to continue to play both sides of that.

So like, even though here in Jeffersonville, John, or here in North America, my sect of the message and your sect of the message, the Twain did not mix. Ewald Frank would invite us both sects to come over to Europe and partner with him in mission works.

And so what that does, John. is you end up some of the churches that he plants end up loyal to the main sect of the message rather than to Ebald Frank directly because the main sect people like Perry Green are coming over and touring to these places with Ebald Frank. Ebald Frank say he gets an invitation to go visit a such and such a church in Europe, well he'll invite Perry Green. Come with me Perry Green or he'll invite Leavale. Come with me Leavale and they'll go to that church and they'll do a joint pitch and so basically you know you have multiple witnesses of William Brown on at the pitch

and so Ebald Frank would share what he knows then Perry Green would speak he would share what he knows Leavale would speak he would know he would speak what he knows he came to joint conventions with Raymond Jackson John and so forth Roy Borders was over there doing stuff with him so you you have this going on and as they're doing this the churches the churches they plant develop different loyalties some of them to the main sect some of them to the sect of the message you come from John the main sect some of them you know more to Perry Green

but in Europe that's how it's breaking down but Ebald Frank is also doing a lot in Africa Africa and so is Sydney Jackson and so I don't know if we want to do we have time to jump in to start talking a little bit about Africa and what's going on there next or should we maybe break that up into another episode I think we got some more time let's go for it all right so so while that's happening in Europe right you kind of got three might think three centers of the message Levi Larson my sect Ebald Frank you know what's going on with him and then the stuff

that came out of that UPC minister that's gonna end up in the thunder she got those three centers in Europe Sydney Jackson is working with the group that came in through the UPC mission the UPC guy Sydney Jackson's visiting them and they're kind of aligned with the main sect and Sydney Jackson and Ebald Frank are also working together now who's Sydney Jackson what let's talk about Sydney Jackson a little bit Sydney Jackson was a message polygamist he lived in South Africa he met William Brownham in his South African tours he ended up coming back to the United States with William

Brownham at a certain point I don't know the exact time he moved to the US I want to say it was the 60s right they had known each other for quite a few years I want to say it was about 62 maybe that he came back to the United States and he came back before I think they moved to right before they moved to Arizona and then he made the move to Arizona with the deity cult which makes you wonder right and so he's out in Arizona when William Brownham dies and he's you know kind

of affiliating with Perry Green well he's somebody that everybody wants to sponsor is a missionary to go back to Africa and help spread the message in Africa because he had been a minister there and he's got contacts in the app Stolic faith mission, he's got contacts with other different groups, the independent assemblies of God groups in Africa.

And he's able to start the effort of planning true message churches in Africa. When William Brann have died, I don't think there was a single message church in Africa, John. I don't think there was one, which today, the overwhelming majority of the message community is in Africa.

Yeah. Sydney Jackson ends up sponsored to go back to South Africa. And he went back, here's what, he went back in 65. That's right. Okay, it's coming to my memory now. He went back to South Africa in 1965 before William Brannum died.

And he was trying to organize the first true message mission work in Africa, starting in 65. And he actually had laid groundwork for William Brannum to come to Africa in 65 and do a revival series.

We know of course that didn't work out. William Brannum ended up having restrictions placed on his visa. The government wouldn't let him spread the message in Africa. We talked about that in our historical research podcast, but anyways, the first attempt to do mission work as the message in Africa crashed and burned in 65.

Sydney Jackson ends up coming back after that for the funeral. And then they all decide, okay, we're going to sponsor you. Hey folks, lots of wisdom and pony up some money. We're going to sponsor you to go back to Africa and start a mission network in Africa.

That's what happens. Sydney Jackson goes back to South Africa after William Brannum died, 66, 67. As the schisms are unfolding here in the US, he ends up aligning on the main sex side of the schism.

And he, John, is planting message churches and recruiting the very earliest message churches in Africa. He's doing that in South Africa. He's doing that in Zimbabwe. He's doing that in Rhodesia, basically the southern third of Africa, English speaking Africa is where he's doing that.

And at the same time, he's taken occasional trips to Europe. He's visiting message churches in Europe. And we'll talk about, there's a little bit in South America he was doing, but most everything he was doing was in Africa.

And he continued to do that up until he died. One of the things that made the message appealing to tribal Africans, John, was the fact that that polygamy was allowed. Most Christian missionaries going into Africa don't tell them, yeah, you can be polygamous, okay?

Yeah, have as many wives as you want. But the early message missionaries did, John, Sydney Jackson did, okay? And the polygamy wasn't important, drawing card to the early message communities that were established by evils, Frank and tribal Africa.

Okay, now the very original message people in Africa were either white or Indian, right? I am not aware of any African-African message believers. I'm aware of white African message believers in Indian-African message believers from those early days, but I'm not aware of any African-African message believers when William Brown died.

They were all recruited after he died as far as I know. And Sidney Jackson is the guy planning all of these there in South Africa. Now there's more I want to talk about, but that's the first group.

And Sidney Jackson died in what he died in 84, I think. He died not too terribly long after William Brown, maybe 15 years after William Brown. But he passed away early on, and most of the churches that he planted ended up aligned to the main sect of the message, loyal to voice of God, some of them loyal, more so to Perry Green.

But it's the same thing. And Sidney Jackson, as he did his tours, he would invite E.W. Frank on some of those. E.W. Frank developed connections through that. Perry Green came on quite a few of those tours.

And so anyways, that's how a lot of the very first African churches in the southern tier of Africa got started. And an interesting fact about Sidney Jackson and his connections to the NAR for the people who are looking at this podcast and the research as it connects to like Bethel Church, et cetera.

The Apostolic Faith Missions, that's the group that's planted by John G. Lake. So when he went over into Africa, and he's escaping the murders that were happening in Zion's city, if you read that research, it looks pretty well that that's what's going on.

And he creates this fake stage persona. You can go read the critical examinations of John G. Lake's history. He's doing some schemes. I'll just say it like that. William Brannem himself got somewhat sucked into this through people like Sidney Jackson because they could invite him over and speak to the broad Pentecostal audience.

And like Charles said, it was, the message was very compatible with the polygamy sects that were growing. And back in the United States, nobody really knew that William Brannem was doing this. He was actually supporting polygamy in Africa, and they'd come back to the United States and he would somewhat pretend, but yet not outright say that polygamy was wrong.

So you find many message ministers in the United States today who will fight and say, William Brannem was against polygamy. In fact, I think there's a letter from Voice of God headquarters, if I remember correctly, that says something to that effect.

But though people in Africa remember what he said, and they go back to the sermon marriage and divorce where he says that there was a covenant of... ligamy described in the Bible, and that's what they stand upon.

So this grew into this big mess, but which really weird, Charles, William Brannum's fame kind of fizzled out after the sanctions against him because of the laterane movement. He never really grew to the same popularity that he had before those sanctions.

But now in Africa, he's actually extremely popular, more popular so than when he was alive. And you can go look it up. I've seen a few of them, but there are national Christian television networks in Africa that are playing message ministers and having interviews with them about William Brannum.

And it's grown into this weird thing where he's dead. But now he's more popular in Africa than he was in the United States when he was alive. I was reading some interesting stuff about John Lake here recently.

And one of the things that I came across and it seems to be true from different sources was that John Lake's wife died of malaria while he was in Africa as a missionary. And after he died, John Lake took a underage concubine, I guess what you'd call a John.

And in that sense was a pedophile child molester, okay, a younger girl after his wife died. And that actually played a role in him being needing to come back to the United States because the news of that got out in Africa what he was doing.

So he had to leave that and come back to America. So John Lake is, there's so much stuff about him in the message they never told us. They never told us about the people he killed in Zion.

They never told us about his financial schemes that he went to jail for. They never told us about the underage pedophilia when he was in Africa, okay? So John Lake is so problematic now that we look at him in the way that's the truth.

And Sidney Jackson, yeah, Sidney Jackson is a polygamist in the apostolic faith mission who was converted during the days that John Lake was in South Africa. And this message polygamist, as this polygamist converted into the apostolic faith mission, he then joins the message when William Brenna comes to town and then becomes the lead message missionary in the southern portions of Africa after William Brenna's death and plants the early message community in that region.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, this is not a good history. You can't make this up. History, this is, I mean, it's so much of it. There's so many things we could say, John. So many things we could say.

It just fits the pattern of a God's general. It does, doesn't it? So, so he is one missionary, John. He's the most... important missionary in Africa, but he is just one. So a few years after he gets going, so like I said, he started, I wanna say, he started his mission stuff at 66 and 67 in Africa.

And you know, and it gradually grew. Another missionary was a man named, we called him brother trench. I have looked and looked, trying to figure out what his first name was, but we always just knew him as brother trench.

He was a surprise, surprise, a UPC missionary working in Africa, John. Am I hearing a pattern here? You're hearing a pattern, John. A UPC missionary working in Africa. And he, you know, as the message preachers are going around UPC churches and convincing them to come out of Rumaipi people, he is a UPC missionary that decides to come out of Rumaipi and join the message.

Well, he's in Africa when he decides to come out of Rumaipi people. And he actually ends up, and I have tried to figure out just how this happens. He ends up connecting to my sect of the message, John.

And he starts organizing that in the same areas that Sidney Jackson's working, I would, my hunch is that Sidney Jackson converted this guy to the message, but I'm not sure. He ends up reaching out to my sect of the message and inviting them to come to the southern portions of Africa.

And so Sidney Jackson's got a head start in the southern parts of Africa. Then brother trench invites our churches into the southern part of Africa. And so now you've got the two sex competing, John, in the southern portion of Africa.

And while Sidney Jackson has a lot of the white message community and he's doing mission work to the African or the black message community, or black people in Africa, my sect of the message comes in and they start doing outreach, especially to the Indian message community.

There's a lot of Indian people in the English part of Africa, especially back then. And so my sect of the message, John, also plants a number of churches in the southern portions of Africa working through the brother trench.

And so that's happening in that same period of time, up until the early 70s. Now there's another ministry, another thing going on too that we should mention. And it is the independent assemblies of God.

So the independent assemblies of God had a lot of missionaries operating in Africa back then too. Independent assemblies of God, if you remember, independent assemblies of God is the denomination, which AWS motion and Joseph Mats and Bozay were the leaders of the flagship church was the Philadelphia church in Chicago.

The independent assemblies of God was the main branch of the laterane movement. Sharon Orphanage had joined independent assemblies of God. Most of the early message churches had been in independent assemblies of God. So if you want to think about it, it was the laterane denomination that had all these missionaries working in Africa in the...

independent assemblies about it. Well, the two areas where they were most especially focused back then was East Africa. So like Kenya, Somalia, that area Uganda, and then also what I guess you would call West Central Africa, Ghana, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, that area.

So those are the two areas where there's a lot of independent assemblies of God missionaries working. And just like UPC, I'll say even far more so than the UPC, the independent assemblies of God is universally embracing of William Brannum as a prophet.

There is not a single independent assemblies of God church that thought bad things about William Brannum. William Brannum was beloved, not in the sense that the message beloved him as the great end time prophet, but they beloved him as a true prophet of God.

And they're circulating his literature, John. The independent assemblies of God missionaries in those areas are circulating message literature. And so people in Africa start to get an awareness through independent assemblies of God and ministers of William Brannum's teachings of his sermons and so forth.

And that starts to open doors where some of them reach out for mission opportunities, where with Ewald Frank or with Sydney Jackson or to the other groups of the message. One man in the area of Ghana and Ghana, Nigeria, that area was a man named John Humphrey.

He ends up working with my sect of the message, John. And they plant quite a few churches in Ghana and in Nigeria. Ewald Frank's coming down in there. Same thing, he's visiting Ivory Coast.

Ewald Frank was fluent in four different languages, and he had through his church a lot of different translators. And they're just visiting all of these different African countries, and they're planting message churches all throughout that region, John.

And so while Sydney Jackson's maybe in the southern third of Africa, these guys are in the central parts of Africa spreading it. And I would say by the time you come up to 73 or 74, they have probably planted somewhere in the neighborhood of I would think it'd be safe to say 200 message churches in Africa, they were small, you know, not big churches, but by the time you get up to 75, 76, they planted lots and lots of churches.

By the time you get to the 1980s, by the time you get to the 1980s, Africans are the majority of the message community. I would say by the middle 80s. That's when that transition happens.

So the growth in Africa is just absolutely explosive. And when you think about that too, John. So I was involved in a lot of the work in our sect of the message to know how this worked, okay?

Like we know how all this work. There was a couple different things that I think maybe effect of this. And I'll just use one of them. So financially, John, you could start a message church in Africa with loyalty to your sect of the message back in those days for about $10 a month. Okay. Very, very cheap. Okay. And you know, and over time, it grew by the time you get to the 80s, $25 a month, you could have a message church in Africa. If you take just that small amount of money and you offer it to an African preacher to be a missionary to outreach

for your sect of the message and your branch of the message, that was enough to take them from dirt poor to the richest man in their town. That was all it took. And that's all it took, John, to have a message preacher, $10 a month, $25 a month. And when we are talking about all of this money coming in from the full gospel businessmen, all the money coming into some of these larger churches, that's all it took. And for a few hundred dollars, you could sponsor dozens of preachers in Africa. And it's the same thing in the Philippines and the same thing in

some of the South American countries in India back then too. You could sponsor a preacher to spread the message. And that is absolutely what happened. They would go in, they would identify people, and they would basically send you Jackson set up a little seminary where he would train African people to spread the message and be preachers and he would give them credentials. And if they did, they would get this little allowance of $10 a month or, you know, as time went on, it grew. And they would go out and they would do mission work. And if you think about it, John, in that sense,

you know, it's good to maybe spread gospel of Jesus, but of course to spread the message, you wouldn't brand them. Think about it like an investment, because this is what happens, and this is absolutely what happened. For $10 a month, I've sponsored this person to go out and preach. And of those preachers, a number of them are going to successfully plant some really big churches. Okay. And when they do, they're going to then develop tie the revenue. Okay.

Now, when that preacher has now getting a substantial amount of tie the revenue coming in, right, he is going to then tie back to home base. And this is what happens. Okay. For some minor investments. Okay. You plant the churches and over time, they're in net loss. But then, as time moves on, they grow. They're no longer in net loss. They're actually tithing more back to Jeffersonville or whatever message center planted them more than is going in. And this is beginning the process of bringing money back to the core in the United States. And so this

It's not simply that out of the goodness of their heart, all of these people are spreading the message. It is profitable. It is profitable. And this is absolutely what's happening, John. And the message centers back here in the United States in Jeffersonville.

I know our church was getting substantial tithe revenues out of all of these foreign churches. All these churches we set up. The same was happening to the other voice of God. Spoken word, Tucson Tabernacle, Cloverdale.

Okay, all these places that planted out these churches were tithing back to the message centers that planted them. And so that's another big thing driving this outreach. I'm glad you brought up the business aspect of this because I think that's highly overlooked whenever people are researching this.

Because if you talk to the people in the message, they're going to tell you that, yeah, this is not a big money making operation. You can look at the people like the Kenneth Hagen's of the world and you can see all this, you know, the carous media that has all of the lights and glamour and money and big mansions, etc.

It's not really the same model when you look at the message ministers. There are a few that have, you know, big mansions, etc. But most of them who are by far the wealthiest don't really show it on the outside.

So you'd look at them and you'd think this is just a poor preacher who has no money or a poor head of an organization who has no money. They've got a lot of money.

And if you think about the business strategy behind it, there's a reason why they have so much money. But we grew up thinking that all of these people were poor, that the organization had no money.

And they played it off pretty well because they, at the headquarters, they would bring in all of the children and they would do children's crafts instead of about Jesus. They would be like crafts about William Branham. It was weird now that I think about it.

But they would tell the kids, now we need to have you take home penny jars because we need money and we're trying to develop a tied system and we're going to train you young.

And we need penny jars. So create a penny jar and if you have a friend over, they can drop a penny, whatever it is, you know. And so when you're thinking pennies, you're not thinking that they have millions and millions of dollars coming in.

And if you look at the tax statements, they have a good way of expensing it out. So you don't see how much of it's moving out either. And so you get this wrong vision of what this thing is, thinking they're just doing God's work, but no, this is a business.

It's a business strategy. The whole thing has, it reeks of business strategy. It's pretty bad. There's much more to get into. I think we'll cut it off. here because next episode we get to talk about what happened in South America which is fascinating to anybody who's especially if you've read the book on colonial dignidad or if you're familiar with the documentaries on history channel etc. it's a fascinating story so I'm excited to get into that one. I'm looking forward to it too John because we've still got to talk South America, we've got to talk about India, we've got to talk about the Philippines, we've got to talk about

the Caribbean and hey well I think we can throw some Australian New Zealand in there of what was happening these years because we we're going to explain how the message got planted in all of the world that way people can know how to connect the dots. Yeah it'll be fun.

Well if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org and christiangospelchurch.org. From more about the history about William-Branum and the healing revivals you can read come out of her, my people, available on Amazon, Kindle and Audible. From more about the dark side of the new apostolic Reformation you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle and Audible.