Evangelism or Empire - The Global Push to Spread Branhamism

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brandham Historical Research Podcasts. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brandham Historical Research at William-brandham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend Charles Paisley, the founder of ChristianGospelChurch.org, and the author of Come Out Of Her My People.

Charles, it's good to be back and to talk all things spreading of the message. It's odd to say that with a happiness because this is such a devastating thing as it really is to Christianity that's going on, message spreading across the world.

And it's just so interesting to me because whenever you see people who are in other countries and their version of the message has grown into something weird. I don't know how to say it other than weird.

In the main sect, we would see all of these people, they would come in at Easter and they would have these big conventions. And you know, they would unite us as like we were one, one people.

But when you got to know them, you realized just how weird and different what they believed was compared to what we believed. And yet it's all the same message, they had the same foundation.

But anyway, it's interesting to talk about how it spread into, I guess, now we're going into the Caribbean and to South America. Yeah, John, I'm looking forward to picking back up. If our listeners remember over or what, our last two episodes, we've been talking about how the message spread to the ends of the world after William Bram died.

And overall, if our listeners have been with us since we started this new series, following the years after William Bram died, the message had a major schism in 1967 and 1968. And coming into 1969, this massive missionary push began, which took the message everywhere.

And if you remember, the way that it got started, or they initially went after the low hanging fruit. I'll put it like that. There were about 35 message churches back then. And leaders and ministers associated with the message, they began to go to this, to the broader ladder rain movement where William Bram had name recognition, where the people knew of him and had some familiarity with his message.

And some were even contained people who already believe the message, and they just weren't in a message church. They were a message of believer in UBC. church. They were a message believer in a independent assemblies of God church. They were a message believer in four square. Peace, just people, William Pranimate picked up into his cult of personality, but hadn't moved to a message church. And so initially they're going after that low hanging fruit in all these churches. And at that point, the message preachers and leaders were still welcome in most all of those places. They were especially welcome in the independent assemblies

of God. The independent assemblies, many of their churches were still part of independent assemblies of God back then. And that was probably their most important and fertile recruiting ground. After that, the UPC and other apostolic churches were also just very important places for them to recruit from. And then in Africa, the apostolic faith mission. And so as that's happening, as they're drawing all the people that have familiarity with the message and who can be convinced to break away and start new churches, they're also getting other people who had never heard or considered it before at the same time. And so there's a lot of capacity to do that in North

America because William Brannum was fairly widely known. There was also a lot of capacity to do that in Europe. William Brannum had done multiple tours of Europe and had a lot of connections there, the same thing. And similarly in Africa, William Brannum had been to Africa twice. He had

done the same sort of bit where there were people there who were somewhat familiar with him. There were no formal message churches, but the same thing was happening in Africa. But as you get further afield, there's less places in the world where William Brannum went. But the Caribbean is another place that William Brannum had went during his life. In 1961, the full gospel businessmen sponsored a revival tour for William Brannum in the Caribbean that year. And back then, if you remember, William Brannum was in the middle of a tax fraud suit. He was not allowed to leave the United

States, like there was travel restrictions on him. And so they had canceled. They had basically curtailed William Brannum's ability to tour internationally for, I would say, good seven, eight years because he was involved in the tax fraud suits. And they was afraid, obviously, if he went to, you know, he went to Europe, hey, might not come back as he owes the government hundreds of thousands of dollars back to access. So they wouldn't let him travel out of the country, but he was able to go to Puerto Rico, a US territory. And why was there? He's also able to go to Jamaica and some of the

other countries down there, which I don't necessarily think you had to have a visa to get into. That's how we managed to pull that off. And so anyways, as he's, as he's died, this is another center for message people to make their, their pitches where William Brannum was known, where there was already preexisting independent assemblies of God mission networks. And what you have in the Caribbean is there is a man named Robert Lambert. Okay. Now Robert Lambert was from Connecticut. He was generally called Bob Lambert. He was a independent assemblies of God minister.

that's where he came from, and he was more so a missionary than anything else. And he worked through the Caribbean, but when he was stateside, he was in Joseph Coleman's church actually in New York City, John. So he was a minister at local Christian assembly, the Joseph Coleman church. And as we'll get in in the future, Joseph Coleman in 1974 launches an independent sect of the message that it becomes known as the thunders. And so Bob Lambert, as he's doing this stuff in the Caribbean, you know, the Caribbean, it's primarily non-white people, right, in Jamaica, in Puerto Rico, that he's making inroads with. And Joseph Coleman is a natural fit. He's

able to go and kind of help out with some of that. And so they plant a number of churches, John, in Puerto Rico, in Jamaica, after William Brandham died. They also planted churches in Trinidad and Tobago. They did the same in Aruba. They also, I know there was submission work happening from my sect into Cuba and also Jamaica as well. And you see these churches starting to come together in the Caribbean right in that same period of time as you come on to the other side of that message schism. And they started doing that again. And in 69 and 70 was when they really

started to plant those first churches there. And so that took off and started the message community in the Caribbean as we know it today. You know, it's interesting. You mentioned Trinidad, which is one of the countries in the Caribbean. And one of the podcasts that we recently did, we were talking about the ebb and flow, the boom and bus cycles of Pentecostalism, how it grew and how once it got into the message that that continued. A person who was reading through that who was listening to us, he read the comments and I was I was watching as the people were commenting and he said something

to the fact, Oh, this this boom and bus cycle, it sounds to me like that's money laundering. Which, you know, I'm not going to talk too much about that. There's there's some good research there if somebody wants to dig into it. But in Trinidad and Tobago, the as the message is building up in this place, one of the big message leaders recently, as of what was it Charles? Like four years ago, I think it was got busted. He I don't know the official outcome, but he was definitely charged with money laundering and they traced, I don't know how many was some somewhere in the neighborhood

of 30 million dollars that they were they were laundering through the church and allegedly. And it all came because the country had been used heavily by other countries as a means to launder their money. And so they were changing the currency system and everything to try to eradicate it. Now, these countries have a heavy, heavy apostolic presence. So, You think about the boom and bus cycles and then think about what could potentially be going on.

Well, we know that it is happening to some extent because the law is cracking down or was cracking down and was trying to prevent the money laundering. So it's a side story. It's, you know, if somebody wants to, whoever commented, you can research.

The name of the message person arrested was Vin Dial, D-A-Y-A-L. But, you know, there were other people caught in the trap too that they, when the government started cracking down. But anyway, you're right.

The message spread into these countries, heavy apostolic presence and to the people who are researching the charismatic movement, the NAR and coming across this podcast, think of the presence of the charismatic in the Caribbean.

I mean, it's a heavy presence, right? There's so many of them who, you know, they established all of these bases where I hate to say it. I've traveled to the Caribbean and I would love to establish a base there so that I could take my family and have a good time in the Caribbean, right?

Yeah. So as, as things are getting kicked off in the Caribbean, the, the Bob Lambert is kind of has a head start and the funders, what will become the funders, kind of has a head start in getting the majority of the early community there planted.

The main sect follows not long after establishing churches and then also my sect, primarily in Jamaica and Cuba, was where my sect had did some operation of mission work and established some stuff. So, that's happened in early on.

Like you mentioned, Vinworth Dial, his church, I believe, got started back in that period of time as well. His was more of a main sect of line church in Trinidad when he got started.

Another, another incredibly interesting church, you know, I would say Vinworth Dial is probably the most important church in the Caribbean. Second to him, I would say the most important one is church, Bob Lambert had planted, which evolved into, it's called Bethel Tabernacle or Bethel House of God is the name of the church.

Yeah. The present pastor is a man named Bruce Dalton, who is very famous in the message for his series of books, The Exposition of Damnedable Heresies. Now, this, this series of books has over 25 volumes and they're all quite large and if you want to know all kinds of bad things that everyone in the message ever did, this man writes the series of books on it, The Exposition of Damnedable Heresies John.

Every sect of the message has whole books dedicated to all the bad things that they ever did. So, Bruce Dalton is a nut, John, an absolute nut of a man, but yeah, he was in some ways he considers himself to be Bob Lambert's successor.

a lot of ways. I remember I came across this name early on in my research. We were, gosh, I want to say it was within the first two or three months and it came up in one of the forums.

I used to have a before Facebook groups and all of these things that exist today. I had the old school style forums where people could come out of the message and we were talking and I was reading through, I'd never heard of this name and it came up in the forum and one person was saying it's almost like a badge of honor to get into his book of heresies because if you make any sort of movement at all, this guy is going to write about you and just condemn you to hell because that's his whole ministry is condemning other

groups to hell. Exactly. I mean, the entire, nobody knows what this church actually believes. We just know they hate everybody. You know what I mean? My sect of the message was in there. There is everybody in the message gets called out by this guy.

Now he's actually got, I actually have a little section of my book on his sect of the message. He actually does have a little bit of a following in the Caribbean in the United States in Africa and South America.

He's got a small minor regional sect of the message. I would describe it, but yeah, that was a notable one that grew up in the Caribbean. Yeah, but besides that, there's just a lot of planning happening in there.

And one actually, especially interesting thing about Bob Lambert, John, his Bob Lambert was actually murdered. And I believe the year was 1974, right on the, yeah, it was 1974. The same year, we'll talk about this when we talk about the thunders, but he got murdered in the Caribbean right when he turned on Joseph Coleman for preaching the thunders, John.

Wow. Yeah. And so, we'll talk about that. There's reasonably a chance that he was murdered by other message people in that church. It seems likely, impossible, he was actually murdered by members of his own congregation when he had turned on Joseph Coleman.

Not necessarily for turning on Joseph Coleman, but right in that period of time. So we'll talk about that some more when we talk about the thunders, but yeah, that's how the message kind of got planted in the Caribbean.

And the same thing, you know, he was going to places where William Brandon was known where there had already been some established presence going, especially independent assemblies of God using their mission network and visiting churches that were already connected in some way to the latter reign movement.

Yeah. Yeah, that was one of the surprising things to me whenever you, so all of these groups came into the, you know, into this area, Macca, Jeffersonville, Indiana for the conventions. And you would meet some of the different various groups.

And because we're all under the same umbrella, we're all, well, the same foundation, William Brandon is the prophet. the prophet has came to restore the hearts of the children to the fathers. We had this false notion that he actually restored the hearts to the fathers. And whenever these people would come over, you would see things like this. I mean, they literally will murder people in the message communities in some of the other countries. In fact, if you go to my website, I don't have that searchable.

I should probably make that searchable. But we have records if you know where to look of different groups that are killing Catholics, sometimes killing each other. Basically, if they believe two different things, and one side or the other feels strongly enough about it, they will come out and do violence, physical harm. And so we were raised thinking that William Brandham had spread the message and the people were all of the same mindset. They all loved one another in harmony.

And then you realize that, no, it's not harmony. It's quite the opposite of that in other countries. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But there's some pretty serious violence that's occurred, especially outside of the United States around this stuff. Yeah. So, you know, if you, hey, you guys want to have a great read, the exposition of Daniel Harrisies, I have to recommend it. I have about almost every volume of this imprint from, from them, John, from like our Raymond Jackson collected him. He loved to collect everything I tell you what. So I have copies of some of those from him. Well, it's dirt on everybody.

So if you collect this and you want, you want to have your way with somebody, you got all the dirt right there in a book. Oh, boy. So I guess moving on to South America. So Bob Lambert, well, I should mention this Samuel Johnson. I've talked about Samuel Johnson before, the child molester preacher from had a church in Michigan. He was an important mission center. He also, his church sponsored the first missionaries in that period of time into the Dominican Republic.

And so that was happening in that period as well. He's church also sponsored the first missionaries dean to Costa Rica in that same period and into Panama. And so they were kind of starting to Latin America right then. Now down in South America, there were, there were three centers of what I'll call mission message activity during this period of time. And I just want to talk about all three of those in South America. Now the first one is this is again, I would say this is probably the most mysterious one because how this got started is so mysterious. But somehow

you know, before William Brannum had died, Paul Schafer had relocated from Germany to Chile. Right. And so Paul Schafer was in Chile. I believe from 1960. 33, maybe 62, if I go back and look, right?

I mean, he was already there when William Bram died starting Colonia Dignidad, which was an isolated message commune, kind of associated, we know associated with Ewald Frank in his sector of the message. We know Ewald Frank from Germany went to Colonia Dignidad multiple times, all the way up into the 2010s.

I think 2015, 1617 was maybe the last time he's known to have been there. So there is stuff happening in South America in the message, and the stuff with Colonia Dignidad is the most mysterious of all, precisely how that links back to the message.

Besides the known fact that they were message believers that they had had contact and known William Bram personally, and that Ewald Frank was visiting there, we don't know a whole lot about how they interacted with the message community in the broader world, but they were there in South America in the 60s, and right on through this period of time, basically a cult operating a military compound and doing all of the crazy stuff we've talked about in the Colonia Dignidad episodes.

It's really an unbelievable history when you think about what all happened in South America. I've covered some in my book from weaponized religion, from Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad, but there was essentially there was World War III being waged covertly in South America, and now that we have the declassified records from Nixon and various people, we can see what was going on down there, and like you said in Colonia Dignidad, it was militarized, they had weapons manufacturing, they had siren gas, they had all kinds of things, and it has made documentaries such as Hitler's Hunters, different places because all the Nazis were coming in there,

and the Nazis called it the colony, and so they would come into the colony, and then that's where they would land and hide out, well then there's this vast network of underground tunnels to get them into other countries.

So they'd land first in Chile, and they'd go into Argentina in various places. But remember, this is also the country that, or the continent, I should say, the Jim Jones was at, Jones was in Guyana.

So that's, if I remember correctly, that's a little bit northeast, if I remember correctly. So he's in Guyana, and this is about the same time that, you know, Jones was there, what was it, 1978, I think it was, whenever they started building the colony, but he was also there early, he took his family, not long after William Brannum started claiming that the prophet Nehum predicted that outer drive in Chicago was, what was going to come to be, and that there would be dropping an atomic bomb in Chicago, and in, And I think he said Louisville, Kentucky, well that blast radius would have taken out Indianapolis

So Jones took his family down early into South America At that point now what's really interesting is on my first Video YouTube channel. I had this testimony of my own grandfather and You probably knew this not many people knew but my grandfather suffered heavily with dementia During his later years and he started talking he started he started just opening up and there was no filter He would talk about things that like I never knew this about my grandfather and I go look and sure enough He's just he's telling the truth, but he's got no filter

Well, he started telling a testimony and it was on video He started talking about him and Billy Paul, which is William Brownson Flying into South America and they flew into Guyana and Billy Paul apparently pointed down the plane out of the window Next to my grandfather and said that right there. That's where Jim Jones's compound was And I put this on my website, which is you know a bombshell right because at that time now nobody knew that Jim Jones was in the message cold So I put it out there and that's one of the that was the first time that my website got attacked in my

YouTube They actually did the copyright strikes against the YouTube to bring that particular video down Because they did not want to know that Billy Paul Brannum and my grandfather were flying into Guyana Yeah, the the independent assemblies of God so I say back to back to Paul Schaefer just a little bit It's it's so mysterious You know what was you know the linkages there and as far as I know I'm not aware of Paul Schaefer dude any sort of outreach To spread the message or anything like that or to spread religion at all really He was very very isolationist so I don't I'm not aware of really any spread of the ideology as a result of his activities

But the independent assemblies of God who Paul Schaefer actually had been connected to when he was back in in Germany You actually find this is some of the herald of faith magazines I think it's quite likely based on what I can tell that the independent assemblies of God was actually sponsoring the Kind of the children's home that Paul Schaefer ran back in Germany But the independent assemblies of God ran a fairly large Mission network globally and they had a lot of missions into South America I talked at that time especially in Brazil and in Venezuela

You know, I haven't looked into Jim Jones a whole lot, but we know he was in it in the independent assemblies of God back then himself And it was probably through the independent assemblies of God network mission network that he had went into into Brazil and Giana the first time Which he went I believe 1962 was the first time he went down there And almost certainly as part of independent assembly because of God I think if we looked into it, that's what we would find out. But the independent assemblies of God had missionaries all over the place down there

through and stuff and through that network. And I'll say the same as in the Caribbean, the same as the independent assemblies of God, that whole mission network was almost entirely financed by the full gospel businessmen, John, just like a lot of the mission network in Africa, the full gospel businessmen was paying for pretty well the whole thing during the early years.

There was Perry Green. So William Brown sent Perry Green into Venezuela in 1965. I don't know if you're aware of this. No, I didn't know that. Perry Green more or less converted to the message in 1964. And William Brown, the stories I was always told was William Brown couldn't stand Perry Green and he tried to get rid of it. So he sent him to Venezuela. You know, the stories that come down in my sect of the message, you know, but you know, so anyway, you take it or leave it for what it's worth. But anyways, William Brown sent Perry Green to Venezuela supposedly to get rid of

him according to the people in my sect of the message. So down Perry Green goes to Venezuela.

And he actually holds meetings in Venezuela. And as far as I know, he with the support of the main sect of the message and like he was a full gospel businessmen and financing the full gospel businessmen, plants the original message community in Venezuela. And Perry Green ends up with a pretty strong connection into Latin America and the Spanish-speaking areas. I would say he spearheaded a lot of that effort. And over the years, the Brannum family, especially along with Perry Green, were very directly involved in the planning and the spreading of the message in Latin America overall. So they had a direct hand in it. And a lot of the Latin American stuff is absolutely

main sect, you know, or lined either to Perry Green after some of those things split off. So that was very, very, very big. My sect of the message, for example, we had no presence in South America. That was all main sect territory to us. So there was, however, so besides that stuff happened in Venezuela before long, you know, they're doing stuff in other parts. But I would say in by 71, 72, 73, they're operating in quite a few of the central American countries and Venezuela and Colombia to begin with. And so that's very, very important, very, how a lot of that stuff got

started there. Now, the next one we got to talk about, now this is by far the absolute most important one, John. So there was another missionary operating down there who I haven't been able to positively confirm he was part of the independent assemblies of God mission network. But I have to say he almost 100% was because I know he attended through some different testimonies. This man attended the

Vivals hosted by people's temple in 1950, yes, 1957, yes, which was when they were all in the independent assemblies back a god back then, right? Jim Jones had been ordained by the I.O.A.G.

back then and that was the independent assemblies god brotherhood meeting. So the fact that he was there leads me to believe he was almost certainly also an independent assemblies of god. However, the message, the legend is he was a Baptist, a Baptist, okay? Who was at the Jim Jones room?

It don't quite add up to me that he was really a Baptist. He was almost certainly an independent assemblies god minister, I would say. And his name is Archie Martin. No relation to the Martin brothers of Arkansas as best I know, but he was from Indiana. His family lived around Indianapolis.

From what I understand is his parents converted into the message in the 50s. They told him about how wonderful William Brannum was and he came back from mission work in South America to attend those meetings with his parents at people's temple, John. He was amazed by what he saw with William Brannum. He he started collecting message literature, which was independent assemblies god mission stuff back then. And he goes back to Brazil and he starts proselytizing the message in Brazil. Now he was very unsuccessful. He he did not have a lot of good luck at it, okay? By the time

he died, he might have there might have been there maybe was 100 message believers in Brazil when he died, okay? And he died. I want to say, oh, I should look in my book to get the exact date.

I want to say he died in 72 or 73, 1973. So he he died during this period of time as well. He died young too. Because of death, I am not sure. And he is very interestingly, John buried underneath a giant white pyramid, okay? Yes, okay. So this is the founder of the message community in Brazil.

But during that window of time before he died, he came into contact with a man who is going to be very important in Brazil. And I always have trouble saying the names of this type, but I believe his name is Joaquim Silva. You can correct me if I'm wrong and how I pronounce in that John, but Joaquim Silva or maybe Joaquim Silva. You know how to say it, John, is that is that right?

I say Joaquim, but I think I think both are incorrect. Okay. So we're going to say Joaquim Silva. My apologies to all of our friends in Brazil for for butchering this this this man's name, but anyways, this particular man was was a minister there who had his justice. He was an itinerant preacher. But when he intersected with Archie Martin, he more or less ends up becoming Archie Martin's lieutenant in the very tiny Brazilian message community.

And he sets up, guess what, a radio station. You heard how that was radio stations was important to spreading the message in the United States and Europe. Well, he sets up a radio station in Brazil.

And they're kind of in, I don't know, North Central Brazil from what I understand. And from that radio station, he starts attracting just a large, large following John. And over the years, they grew into, I mean, again, from what they say, there's over 40,000 in his sect of the message at the present day or, you know, I say in recent years.

And pictures I've seen would suggest it's certainly maybe in the 5,000 range. There's pictures of, I would say, 5,000 of his followers at a single time. But they grew into a very large sect of the message over the years.

I think we'll do maybe a full episode on them down the road. But that all grew out of the work of Archie Martin, who was the initial message missionary in to Brazil, buried underneath the white pyramid, who converted into the message through revivals at Jim Jones People Temple John.

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I learn something from you every time we do one of these podcasts. I did not know that that was connected also to Jones, but you know, how can it not be? Jones was a big figure in the message called, and if you take a step back and you go back and in time to the Laterane, he was being primed as a leader of Laterane.

You can look at the letters that you and I have shared from, Oh, what's his name? Joseph Matsum-Bose, introducing Jones to William-brandham and basically setting him up. You got to meet this guy. This is a rising up and coming, right?

And then they start holding these big conventions together. It looks very much like they were trying to create competition for the voice of healing movement and their conventions. So Jones is going to be there.

Jones and Brandham would be the star players, right? And then it just kind of fizzled out because of the, what was it? They said 300 ministers rose up against Brandham over the serpent seed and...

They started condemning Brannum with all of these death prophecies in the carousel made of me. Yeah, and so I had this conversation with somebody just, it was today, it was actually just today. The NAR says that Brannum went astray in the later years and they talk about how they rose in opposition. But the moment in which 300 ministers rose up and condemned him was in the 50s, you know, mid 50s. So this is like in the middle of his ministry, not at the end.

And Jones was a key figure. Like you said, Jones goes down into into South America. Now that I know that that connection's there, I'm actually going to dig a little bit deeper to see how more widespread Jones's influence was in South America. But the connection, so all of these connections, if you really take a step back and ignore the religious side, just think a minute about the political side. Because the full gospel businessmen, even though it is under the auspices of religion, it is a political movement. They're attracting businessmen, they're getting funding, they're working in the government systems. We've got photos and we did an episode where

they're connected to Nixon. Well, previously, whenever I was building up to the climax that I would eventually get to, it was Nixon that was helping that was working with the colony, Cologne, a Dignidad, whenever they were setting up the operations to overthrow the government and install Augusto Pinochet as the dictator. So you've got the full gospel businessmen who are working with Nixon, Nixon administration, you know, they obviously work with other presidents too, but they were in collaboration and they're sponsoring the entities that are going into the Caribbean where there's, I'm not saying they're connected, but there's a heavy money laundering presence

in the Caribbean. And you've got a business entity in the United States that is literally generating money for the religion. I'm not going to say those two are connected. You can think about that if you want, but why are they doing it? What is their mission? If, if their mission is to spread Christianity, it's really odd how they're doing it. You know what I mean? These people that they're choosing to spread it through into the, into South America, it's like there's so many better choices, but they're choosing these guys to do it. I don't know what to make of some of that, you know, you know, it's

hard for me to know just exactly what to make of it. But hey, Bob Lambert, who started those churches in the Caribbean, came from a church that was ran by former members of the New York mob.

It happened. I mean, what were they? You can't make this stuff up. No, really, why are we that Tyler? And then they were in the mob, okay? No, no question. about it. Okay. And so was the brand family. Okay. I don't know. I mean, and then the preachers that they planted to get arrested for money laundry. I mean, is it, is it just a coincidence? Was there a conspiracy? I really don't know. I mean, I know Joseph Coleman's family went to jail for Ponzi schemes. You know, I mean, you can just go on the list, right?

Well, I'm not going to say it's connected, but Kenneth Hagen's brother openly admitted he was in the mob. You don't, you don't, you know, so I mean, is it a, you know, is it is some sort of a vast conspiracy? Or is it just a whole bunch of people seeing ways to get rich and, you know, it's coincidental? I don't know. I kind of lean towards it's just a bunch of people all trying to get rich. And hey, that guy did it. I'm going to do it too. Kind of a thing. But maybe it is, maybe it is something bigger. I'm not sure. I've come to ignore the conspiracy theories

and think of it like this. Here's a movement who trained and manipulated every head to believe that whenever the Bible talks about discernment, discernment meant detecting someone's diseases. That's what Brannum taught in this movement, right? But discernment is discerning right from wrong.

If you understand the Bible context, I've come to the conclusion that forget about all the conspiracy theories, just look at the people that are involved with this thing. And yet, here's a people who trained others not to know how to apply discernment. There's some bad people because they did not use their discernment. There's something funny going on in all of that side. They're sure isn't. And just what it is hard to lay your finger on it. But a lot of them sure got murdered and went to jail though. That is for sure. So that's it's strange. It's very strange.

Yes. So that's South America. And let me point out one last thing before we maybe move on from South America. So, Joaquin Silva, apologize for saying his name almost certainly wrong. Joaquin Silva was a rapist and he died. I don't know if he was in prison when he died or he was still awaiting trial when he died. But he was a serial rapist as well. So I mean, there's not a good, there's not a, and Perry Green was a convicted felon and everything else. None of this was good.

I mean, every single central player here is some sort of a criminal deviant. It's not good stuff, ladies and gentlemen. It is none of this is good stuff. God have mercy. None of it is good stuff.

So that's South America, John. We've not even gotten to the good stuff yet. Okay. So that's South America. And this is it. There is not a message church in the world that is not connected to this stuff. Okay. Every single message congregation in the world today stems from this missionary outreach push I'm talking about that was led all by men like this.

And not a one of them has clean hands, John. Not a single one of them. has clean hands. I could tell you the dirt on every last one of them. I know it all, okay?

We come from the second oldest message church in the world. My pastor kept dirt files on every last one of them. I know it all. And it's in the pages of this book, John, and it with footnotes, okay?

So anyways, kind of moving on from South America, you get over to... Let's talk about... Next, let's talk about the India, John. How about that? So that's South America moving over to India. India is another really interesting case.

So William Brannum had made a tour of India. This is the last place he made a tour of that we'll be talking about, you know, through the rest of the places. But he visited India. He had his tour there. The tour there was a massive flop. It was his most least successful tour ever.

It was an absolute total flop. He came back to America and more or less, you know, hoped nobody would hear the story about it and just tried to forget about it. The tour was such a flop.

But he did pick up a very important member into his cult following while he was in India. And we're going to do a full episode on this man down the road and his many activities, but his name was Paulicier Lowry.

And Paulicier Lowry, like quite a number of people in William Brannum went overseas, followed him back to the United States. And they moved to Jeffersonville. I'll tell you, we collected them from all over the world. They all came here.

They all moved to Jeffersonville. They lived in our community. They went to our churches. And when William Brannum died, they all returned from once they came, okay, and they took the message with them.

And he was one who returned from once he came. And he was here, you know, up through before William Brannum and all then moved out to Arizona. And he went out to Arizona with them. There's actually pictures of him with Leo Mercer's park. Him and William Brannum standing together with Leo Mercer's Commune trailer park in the background.

So this is Paulicier Lowry. He goes back to India, John. And he is in the deity cult. He is a deity cult to the core. He is hardcore deity cult too. He is part of the deity cult, the baptized and pray in the name of William Brannum, right.

And made no bones about it. He was that. He actually, his group pioneered the practice of praying in the name of the Lord Brannum Christ. They pray to the Lord Brannum Christ. They baptize in the name of the Lord Brannum Christ. They're even crazier than Fred Soffman, John.

I'm telling you, that's how bad these are. Absolutely not. You know, it was man's a nut. And he plants, he claims to plant by 1925, I'm sorry, 19 by 1975, he claims to plant 25 churches in India.

How true that is is debatable. And how many people there were was debatable. because I have a feeling that, you know, he imagined some of those people and some of those churches, but he did indeed successfully plant a number of message people in India.

And some crazy stuff happened early on in his ministry, which we will talk about. And it ended up kind of going sideways on him. And the people who break out of that start to reach out to the broader message community because they had contact.

For example, there's pictures of Paul as your Lowry visiting Crefield-free mission and preaching there on the 60s. For example, he was connected to everybody. And as his, in his his group explodes and splits up, he had taken, he convinced Americans to move to India with them.

He had convinced several people that he was the next manifested sons of God. And a number of Americans and a few Europeans moved to India with him, thinking this was the case. And then when all that fell through, they reached back out to the United States.

And missionaries from my sect of the message, missionaries from your sect of the message, all start to get invited to come visit to India. And so that is how they all primarily landed in India.

Wasn't really through a pin to pin an assemblies of God, but was through the break of Paul as your Lowry's following reaching out for help from the broader last or message community. And that happened in the middle, and mostly the middle 70s when that happened, early to middle 70s when they broke up and reached out for more.

Yeah, basically you get Cloverdale, actually. Some of their early mission stuff was reaching out to some of that community in India. My church actually directly competed with some of that stuff back then, John.

The way it worked, too. I told you how in our past episode, how for a modest amount of money, $10 a month, you could pay a message missionary to spread the message, right? Well, we discovered in our churches that there was a number of message preachers in India who were double-dip in.

They were taking our money and Cloverdale's money at the same time. And, right? And so there was just this huge purge that happened in our Indian churches after that, because everyone who was taking Cloverdale money all got kicked out.

Because you had to, you know, the 20 don't mix. Like here in the US, we were not, you were just a deadline. And when we found out that the Indian preachers were taking Cloverdale money, and I think maybe Cloverdale ended up paying them more is how they want them, but anyways, Cloverdale won a lot of them.

Payed them a little bit more money than us, but that's how it was a lot overseas. Whoever had the most money tended to get the mission network. And that's just kind of how it went.

But my sect of the message ended up with a number of churches. The main sect was probably the majority. We know Cloverdale sponsored a few. There was a few that always stayed, you know, crazy, Paul Azir, Lowry, Manifest, it sounds like a dirty cult stuff as well.

If you visit Lord Brannum, price.com. I kid you not, ChristBrandom.com. That is the, that is the remnants of Paul Azir Lowry's cult, actually. Yes, those are his successors in India. You know, India to the message is the elephant in the room. And interestingly, there's a lot of elephants in India too. So, but India, if you think about what William Brandham said and what he trained every one of his cult of personality to believe, which is that God was speaking through him and he was the prophet of the end times. Well, he used to

make these sayings, he would say, if you find one minor detail with my prophecies that's incorrect, I'll put a sign on my back that says false prophet and you can parade me through the streets. And I remember sermons about this, how not a single detail of his prophecies were incorrect. And it's odd now that I think about it, because in today's world, whenever we've, we've gone through the prophecies and there's very few details that are actually even our correct. And they try to say, well, that's a trivial detail. You're just nitpicking.

But that's not what the man said. He said one detail. Well, he said also, when I say, thus say, the Lord, you can count on it. Thus say, the Lord means God speaking through me. Well, he said, thus say, the Lord, when I land in India, there will be tens of thousands times thousands being saved. Now, mathematically speaking, that's 10 million. And he's saying there's multiple of these. So we're saying multiple of 10 millions are going to convert to the message when he lands. You've seen the photographs, I've seen the photographs.

He may have got one little tiny church to invite him in, but the vast majority of India said, no, we're not having any part to do with this wack out. We don't want it. We're Hindus. We're Muslims. We don't believe this. And so he comes back and he admits it.

He says, now, you know, the trip to India wasn't the success that I thought it should be. And he never really said, let's say the Lord prophecy is not what I thought it would be. And he makes up these weird excuses. You know, you can go look it up on my website.

But this is the elephant in the room. If you were to believe that he's a prophet and God speaking through him and he's not lying, you have to believe that it would happen. So the point I'm trying to make a fool of this, what's actually happened in India, what actually landed there is so incredibly insane and not even close to Christianity. They worship Brandham outright as a deity. So what they have there, well, he actually made was a bigger mess than what was there before because they're worshiping him. They're praying in his name.

They're baptizing in his name. And I've encountered these people. They've come on my website, especially when I posted. the Indian prophecy, and they say, we are the fulfillment of this. And my first question is, okay, where are the 10 million people?

And you know, there's a handful of people. There's not a lot. There may be a thousand, I don't know, in India, there are, it's a growing number, but it will take decades to grow, and I don't think it ever can grow to the 10 million that he said.

Definitely not. There might be 10,000 message believers in India, there might even be, I have to go back in my book. I had did some kind of detailed considerations when I wrote the book.

There might be 20,000 message believers in India total, and there's a pretty sizable community there. But no, it is not even a fraction of what we've read, I'm prophesied, I'm not saying it more.

It will be. No, I mean, it don't even- And he said that when I return, you'll hear news of it. So he said, literally, they're going to have a revival that's going to make international news, and it didn't happen.

All the major sects of the message have a presence in India, and then there is obviously the remnants of the regional sect of Paul's earlower and some few others, we'll talk more about that.

I'm hoping deeply in some other episodes, so kind of moving on. So that's how the message got started in India. It also got started in Pakistan as a result of that too, John. The Pakistan plants came a little bit after that, but people from India ended up planting some of the early churches in Pakistan as well.

And we in years that followed. Interestingly, there is also connections into age role there too, maybe we could talk about that sometime, but there was just a lot of planting of message churches through that period of time in that part of the world as well.

Now the last two places we can talk about, hopefully we can fit them in, John. Next we'll talk about the Philippines. So the Philippines is another very important area for the message. There's a very large message community in the Philippines as well.

It also got started in this period of time, but towards the end of it. The very first missionary into the Philippines was a man named Gary Hart. He went to the Philippines. I want to say, I have the exact dates in my book, but I want to say it was 1971, was his first visit into the Philippines.

And again, he's working within the independent assemblies of God framework, but he himself is sponsored out of the message church of the child molester in Michigan, Samuel Johnson. So that again is who is sponsoring the original message stuff into the Philippines.

And we might have time, I don't know, we might down the road do maybe a full episode on the Philippines as well, but the same thing, you know, after they got started, something happened very early on.

And I've never, I myself was not privy to the whole details of it, but there was some sort of a child molestation scandal that happened in the early message community in the Philippines that caused that to blow up.

And then the same thing, you know, similar to happen in India or other places, as it blew up, the people there, etched out to other factions of the message, invite them in to take the place of Gary Hart and Samuel Johnson.

And so that's how it kind of divides up and people get their invitations, for the other sex of the message to plant their churches. Ewold Frank had been there a number of times working with Gary Hart in the very early days.

And Ewold Frank was someone who, I said he was very ecumenical. He spread copies of literature from our sect with the my sect of the message while he was there as well. So Ewold Frank gave the Filipinos in Gary Hart's community, my sect of the message is literature.

And so you see when they go, when they blow up, some of them reach out to our sect, some of them reach out to Ewold Frank, some of them reach out to spoken words, and they all get invited in.

And then we all like carve up the Filipino pie. And we all get in up with churches in the Philippines. So that all happened in the middle in late 70s, John. So that's how the message got kicked off in the Philippines.

Ewold Frank seems to be key in spreading into the worst places and creating the worst messes. I know when we get into Africa, there's some funny stories that we can get into with what he created there.

But this is a mess, Charles. Let's try to wrap up maybe we can give just a real quick, say something about Australia and New Zealand. See if we can fit into this episode real quick.

So how did the message get into Australia, New Zealand? That's a really interesting one. And I know we have, you've had some interviews from New Zealand in Australia, I believe in your podcast before as well, but the message never sent, while William Brandon was living, no one ever went to the Philippines, no one ever went to New Zealand or Australia, from the central institutions, but the independent assemblies of God was spreading message literature.

And they did have mission type work happening in New Zealand and in Australia and in that part of the world. And somehow through that network, William Brandon's literature and tapes started to get into the hands of some people in those countries, subscribers to Harold of Faith, voice of healing, and through just some of the other ministers in the broader network.

And what happened, John? And this started, I want to say within one year of William Brandon's death, you have a number of people in New Zealand churches, in New Zealand and in Australia, reach out to the central institutions of the message.

They reach out to spoken word publications, they reach out to the brand of tabernacle, and they request more literature. It's kind of like the, you know, happened in Western Europe with the UPC minister, Garrison, they request more literature.

We would like more of this that we have, you know, obtained. And they start sending more. And before long, invitations get extended to message preachers from North America to come visit these churches, which had been impacted by the Laterane movement through other factions.

And... They develop an especially close connection to Perry Green and to the brand of family in the main sect of the message. And so they're going over there. So they're very, very much main sect aligned, you know, in my understanding of everything over there.

Now, my sect of the message and some of the others did plant some churches in that area in later years, but right at the first, right in these first years, it was all pretty well main sect.

And it was actually them initiating the connections after having obtained a message literature from vest I could tell through the independent assemblies of God network of churches and mission work. Yeah, I do. As you know, our story is every Friday.

I've been doing it for a couple of years now. And Ray went theobald. If you want to go back and you can hear her story of how... She gives a pretty good history of how the message kind of built up in the community that she was in.

And she said that it was the... How did she term it? The mother's church or something like that? It was the main church basically in that area that the message spread from. But so many people, you know, once they realized that this mess isn't what it was supposed to be, that William Brannum wasn't who he said he was, then they realized that once you start looking at all of the other cultures and how the message spread, you start realizing that it's not even a really a connected religion.

No two churches are the same. In most cases, if two messes churches are in the same city in the United States, they won't fellowship with each other. The main sect knew these things. And they're working with them to help spread it because there's money in it.

So as this thing is being pushed far and wide, they really don't care who does it. As long as it spreads and as long as it grows and as long as it can earn another bug.

I think one thing that is important to point out about this early message mission pushed on, you know, when William Brannum died in 1965, every single person in the message community knew and met and saw and heard William Brannum with their own eyes.

Yeah. By the time you get to 1974 on the other side of this mission push, that's not true anymore. The message community by the other side of this is now a majority of people who never saw William Brannum, who never met William Brannum, who, you know, the people in New Zealand never met William Brannum, people in Australia never met William Brannum.

The people that, you know, mostly that was converted in Indian, the Philippines and Africa and South America, they never met William Brannum, right? You get to a state where the majority didn't know him and they are indeed functioning on legends, which the early, the previous people who did know William Brannum has told them.

And so this thing has already entered into, you know, within five to ten years of William Brannum's death, the majority of people are purely operating on legends, which none of them have the least bit of I- witness connection too.

And it's men and you have these people, you have people. Often they would travel together. Paragreen, leave ale, you old Frank, or Raymond Jackson, and different ones who were, the eyewitnesses, they would back each other up in these mission pushes.

And leave ale say, yes, I saw this and that was true. And Paragreen is, yes, I saw this and that was true. And you old Frank say, yes, I would see this and that was true.

And the people listening, they don't know. They have no idea whether it's true or not. They're taking them at their word. And the truth is, just like William Brannum was deceiving a lot of people in his work, in things he was doing, the same thing we can find in their dishes and what they were saying.

His disciples were also deceiving about William Brannum. You know, I'll give you just a couple examples. You know, you old Frank, for example, would always talk about in his, one of his mission talks was how that, in 1958, he came to a meetings in the United States and William Brannum discerned that he was a preacher.

And this was all a great, fantastic miracle. But he never told the audiences that he'd actually met William Brannum three years earlier and was his interpreter. Don't you think he already knew he was a preacher?

Right, there's things like that. Or you take Joseph Coleman doing the same thing. Oh, Joseph Coleman is on tape. There is a discernment where William Brannum calls out Joseph Coleman on tape and discerns that he came to church because oh, his father has cancer, I believe.

And that's why he's came to that meeting to have prayer for his father. Oh, it's a wonderful discernment. But Joseph Coleman never points out the people that he had already been in the message for over a year when that happened, right?

And already visited the Brannum tabernacle and the people knew they're lying. They're lying. They are deceiving. They are keeping up the, like they know, they know that they participated in hoax discernments, John. They know their things that are wrong, but they will use things that they know are wrong that they participated in being wrong as part of their pitch, right, to sell the message.

Perry Green did the same thing or I'm a Jackson did the same thing. Every one of them did it. You can find elements in their stories where they absolutely knew it was fake, but they included it in their testimonies of trying to sell William Brannum to the masses.

And, you know, it's hard to excuse that on this side of things but the people out and about in New Zealand and the Philippines and all, they didn't know any different, right? These people come telling all this stuff, they accept it.

They believe it and they're drawn into the message under false pretenses and all of this stuff is just entered the realm of legend now. And you see it even in the feeds, John. William Brannum was the vindicated prophet.

No, he wasn't. He was not, like, that is just a catch. phrase, vindicated prophet William Brannum was never vindicated and all of this stuff built on just legends that started this whole thing. Legends of a brainwashed people who were trying to go out to recruit people into the message to make themselves feel better, John, because their prophet had died and their religion had been proven to be a hoax. That is what is happening. There's a book out there called When Prophecy Fails, Believe the Sinec actually recommended it. And it is a common feature of religious cults that when some critical event

happens that would challenge their belief system in terms of failed prophecy, like the death of their prophet who was supposed to be the restore, it is very natural for the immediate aftermath of that to be a schism. People run away that have good critical thinking and the people that remain almost always go on a mission outreach, John. And that is part of the attempt to make themselves feel better. They go out and they're recruiting more people because as the new people come in, it reinforces them. Oh, yes, we're right. See, even these new recruits believe.

It's part of the coping mechanism of cognitive dissonance to go out and recruit new people to help reinforce yourself in the aftermath. And that fits the pattern of the message perfectly. You know, a prophet is vindicated by whether or not his prophecy came true or not. And that's what many of these people were manipulated to think it means something else. You can be vindicated by a light above your head or because he said he's vindicated or something like this. But in the end, a prophet is vindicated by whether or not his prophecies, all of them came to pass. And India's

a clear example. There are not 10 million people, tens of millions of people in India who are converted to the message. But in the end, for me, what I see happening is they weren't selling Christianity. And I think this is the thing that people, if you're in the message and you're listening to this, you really need to understand. It's not that they're selling Christianity.

They're not bringing the hearts of the children to the Father, which is that was heavily advertised. He's the prophet of Malachi 4. He's bringing the hearts of the children to the Father. What they were selling was a mythology. Every single person that we have mentioned in this episode and the last one, whenever they went out and they spread the message, what they did was they spread the mythology. They didn't go say Jesus Christ has died on the cross for your sins and you too can be saved. They said, hey, did you know that there's a mythology? We have a prophet and

he had a halo and he had all of these things. And most of the mythology, like you said, they're lying about half of it. Some of these people who are spreading this know that many of these things failed. But they would say, my grandfather would say it. My grandfather was there when things failed.

But my grandfather would say, it never failed one single time, folks. It's more accurate than today's newspaper. And he would say this over and over and over. over again. And then when you find that it actually did fail, I'm like grandfather, why did you say this to the people? Why were you lying to the people behind the pulpit? And for me in the end, it comes down to this, my grandfather supported the mythology more than he supported Christianity. And it's very hard for me to say that because that's awful to think about my grandfather. But think about all these other men that are doing

it. They're all spreading the mythology. And we're going to talk next episode. We're going to talk about as it spread further, what are they selling? They're selling the mythology. And for me, that's the clear dividing line of what this is, is this Christianity or is this something else? And if they're selling a mythology instead of Christianity, it is clearly something else. I think that is all very well said, John. And you are exactly right on the vindication piece. And with William Brownham, it's not even that we need to vindicate him as a prophet that whether he was a prophet or not does not make the message

of valid religion. What makes the message of valid religion is William Brownham has to be the Elijah prophet of Malachi four. He has to be vindicated for that for the message to be a valid religion. And there is no validation vindication for that specifically. There is zero. There never has been, there never was. And the only way to vindicate it is to read that verse and say, did he actually restore the hearts of the children to the father?

And you look at the cult. John, where the, where the fathers, where the fathers rapists and John musters and thieves and rockers. I mean, it was no, no, but that's what, that's what William Brown's followers were. Okay. So no, he did not return their hearts to, he did not fulfill that verse, right? And it is outrageous, outrageous to say otherwise.

It's unbelievable. And you're right. He wasn't what he said he claimed to be. And so as we're going to get into, as we go further with this, because of this, because men who are leading this, and, and I'm using the term men because they're very few women who lead the message. They're the men. Men who are leading this realize that he was not who he said he was. And so what you ended up with coming next, and we'll get into it further, as you started spawning off all this new group of people who said that they were the ones

who were coming. They were the prophet of the last days. And that's going to be a little bit fun when we get into that. But anyway, isn't it an admission that he didn't turn the hearts of the father's back if he needs other people now need to do it? You know what I mean? Absolutely. Other people now need to do it. Obviously, he didn't. And therefore, obviously he was not the allied you. And therefore, the entire religion is something's wrong upstairs, John. People aren't thinking straight here. And Jeffersonville, they're all congregating because the son is supposed to be the one who will lead the children back to the hearts

of the fathers. But we could go on and on. You get the picture. It was a mythology. This is not Christianity, folks. If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at William-Brandom.org and Christian-GospelChurch.org. For more about the history of William-Brandom and the healing revivals, you can read come out of her, my people. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian identity to the NAR.

It's available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. Weaponized Religion is available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.