Two Soul Doctrine EXPOSED! How Ewald Frank's Sex Scandal Created a GLOBAL CULT

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brandham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brandham Historical Research at William-brandham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, the founder of ChristianGospelChurch.org, and the author of Come Out of Her My People.

Charles, I'm excited for today. I was excited at the end of the last one, as you know, but getting deeper into Ewald Frank and into the really, really interesting things that we have uncovered with Ewald Frank that are connected to government powers, world systems, world religion. We're getting into some of the some of the weird stuff today. I don't know how far we'll get towards the colonial digna-dad, but there are so many things to talk about with Ewald Frank and his spread of the message, and I was doing some research right as we began to

talk through this episode today, and it is becoming widely known now that some of the more extreme sects of the message are producing some of the more heretical doctrines. So from this tree that Brandham created, all of the branches are bearing fruit that even some of the mainstream research has been able to detect that this was a rotten tree. Yeah, we're picking up today, John, where we left off, and we have been just gradually working our way through each of the major sects of the message, you know, the broke away from the main sect. Yeah, and where we've been,

what I think we've been doing about two episodes on each one. Oh my god, we could do a whole series on each one, but we are just trying to get the highlights for people to, you know, touch the bits that will be useful for people just to have a basic understanding, at least of what these different sects are like and kind of their distinctives, and you know, as we look at Ewald Frank's group today, you know, within the message community, his following is often derisively referred to as the two soul people, and we're going to finally explain today why

they have that label, but a lot of it goes back to the big event that led to the schism of Ewald Frank's sect scandal, which led to his division from the, you know, the main sect of the message.

Well, as we kind of left off in our last episode, Ewald Frank, in 1979, there was the massive explosion in his church where his sex scandal came to light, and in order to hold on to power and control, he basically torched his congregation, destroyed, you know, and ran over everybody he could in order to hold on to power. That's exactly what happened. And he just, he basically destroyed his church in order to hold on to power. Over 90% of the people left, he went from hundreds and hundreds of people in his church down to 30 people left in his church

as you come into 1980. And the way he did things and handled that situation, he did it in such a way that the mission network that he was a chief figure of and the broader message community had no awareness that the sex scandal had happened or that his church had even had the massive explosion at the time. And so at the very first, he had successfully kept all of this under wraps, John. And it's really shocking. And, you know, the people in that church when those things happen, a lot of them were very badly impacted by that situation. I know in the, in some of the

interviews I conducted and different people I talked with to ask questions about some of these things, you know, all of these years later, you can still, I mean, we're 50 years beyond, close to 50 years beyond some of this stuff. Now, people are still, you know, badly impacted. You know, it's like something they always they could just forget that even happened, you know, this, this event when he destroyed his church and all of the people he harmed. But, you know, as we went through that, you know, as you come out to the other side of that, the way that this thing starts to break out

and become known to the broader community, as you come up to the year 1984, his wife, whose name is Helen, travels to Tucson, John. And she has a meeting with Perry Green and she tells the whole story to Perry Green. And this is how the story finally leaks out to the broader message community.

And it's really 1984 when it starts to really spread far and wide. And the whole message world starts to wake up to the reality that, uh, Ewald Frank has had a sex scandal. He's divorcing his wife, he's marrying his secretary, and he torched his church in the process in order to hold on to power.

It's such a mess, man. And to think that again, this is the fruit that we see that is blossoming from William Brannum's base theology. What's really interesting is a lot of these ministers, they will do things like this to kind of erase history. When you torch the church after you've had something like this, whether it's an affair or you've done some kind of money scandal that the church is aware of, if you split the church and divide it, you're faithful. We'll stay with you. Those who are not faithful who would otherwise create a problem for you, they leave, and so you've

just had this big cleansing of your church, and suddenly because your faithful still stuck with you, they just kind of forget it over time, and they produce offspring. The offspring have no clue that this really was a big deal back in their parents' day. And they do the same thing with doctrines. I've seen some of the doctrines that these ministries have produced. We had a comment recently, a person was commenting on one of the videos that you and I did, and they said that the year 1977 wasn't such a big deal. They were there in the church during 1977, and we're exaggerating that. Well, they weren't to

wear apparently that entire books were produced that had the title 1977. Entire churches moved continents because of 1977. It was a massive deal for the message cult because that was, that was William Brano's most famous Doomsday prediction. It wasn't his only one, but it was his most famous. And so across the vast expanse of the message in other countries included, it was a big, big deal. And you mentioned the two-seed doctrine.

What's really interesting is, again, if I go back to some of that research, it is limited in scope to the message extremist sects. However, if you go back in time during Laterane, Christian identity had birthed this notion of celestial souls and celestial bodies, and we were, we were humans seeking out that celestial being. If you follow that doctrine out to its logical conclusion, Ewald Frank was preaching exactly what all of the big names were preaching in that era, not all, but many of them. Jim Jones was going out to, I can't remember the guy's name,

out on the west coast, but he was frequenting a church that taught the two soul UFO doctrine. And if you do a search for Laterane, UFO doctrine, you'll find some examples. But the UFO doctrines were a big deal because of Christian identity. Branum taught it. Branum claimed, in one instance, he went so far as to say that these flying saucers we see, that's the way the rapture is going to be. One flying saucer is going to come down and it is going to pick up this little tiny group of people. And then the UFO will take us to heaven. I can't remember his exact

words. I can probably throw it up on the screen, but it was a widespread doctrine because in Christian identity, you were marrying your earthly soul to the celestial body and celestial being. Those two were merging together. I don't believe that it went so far as to say that there were two separate souls. But you, well, Frank, just built upon this and followed that doctrine out to its logical conclusion. Yeah, it's a fairly common belief in the message. I mean, it was still preached by the preacher at our church when I, before I left the message, you know, just immediate

months before that UFOs are angels. like that's what is generally believed the UFO is some sort of an angelic being and and it's appearance in the heavens is a sign of the end you know of the angels doing the gods work at the last days which is pretty bizarre really to be quite honest with you that is a bizarre idea but that is a that is a very common hell belief in the message because William Brown taught that that UFOs were angels in the heavens the last days but Ewald Frank he started to develop the doctrine on the backside of this sex scandal and you know up until then up until the sex

scandal happened Ewald Frank stayed very close if there is such a thing as message orthodoxy Ewald Frank stayed very close to message orthodoxy up until his sex scandal right I mean he he kind of played it down the center you know what I mean and he did it in such a way that he could be very ecumenical and work with with most of the other sex of the message but when the sex scandal happened this is what kind of precipitated him to come up with his first unusual doctrine and the doctrine for which all of the rest of the message community labels him and his followers

and and here's the thing you know whether it's 1977 whether it's the two soul stuff whatever it is things you know we don't have to guess about all these things all of these guys recorded all of their sermons they all thought they were the continuation of God's voice and every single one of these guys recorded just about everything they ever said all the tapes are still around I mean I have hundreds and hundreds of Ewald Frank's tape just like I have leave ails and and Joseph Coleman and all the other there are all of their tapes are still around right and so you know people can

say what they want about the past but I mean the truth is all the recording still exists and anybody can just go listen to them right and and hear for themselves the things that they said and did so anyways Ewald Frank and here's the thing if you guys want to know where to find tapes and stuff I have the footnotes in my book to where you can go start to look all that stuff up if you want to you know if you want to do that come out of where my people volume to that's what took me so long

was to go through and try and what footnotes you know where people could look stuff up at anyway Ewald Frank he he started to develop this two soul idea Joanne to deal with the fallout of his sex scandal and his remarriage and here is essentially what he did and John this is incredibly bizarre to me and these sermons I've never actually came across one of these sermons in English all the Ewald Frank sermons in this effect that I'm aware of are in German and so I had to do some translation work in order to get in I do not natively speak German so so bear with me

just a little bit and I I'm sure John too I would I would love to hear you know people that have escaped from Ewald Frank's group I'm sure they could give better than I'm going to give about the things that have transpired, especially in the past there.

But here is essentially how Ewald Frank framed a two-sole doctrine. He framed it like this, says, Everybody has an old soul and a new soul. Before you're Christian, you have a bad soul. And then when you are saved and become a Christian, you get a new second soul.

So you got two souls. You got your old, before you was a Christian soul and you got your new after your Christian soul. And that was essentially his conceptity. And now, why did he do this?

He said I got married to my first wife before I was a Christian. Therefore, she was married to my old soul. So she's more or less my old soul's soulmate. And now that I have become a Christian, and I want to get rid of her, it's okay because my new soul has a new soulmate.

And now I'm going to let her go with my old, not Christian life. And I'm going to have this new woman who is a Christian. This is the essential. This is all that really mattered out of it.

He was trying to come up with a justification for why he could divorce his wife and remarrying all of this other stuff and hold on to it. And then besides that, John, he told all kinds of terrible lies about his wife.

He told people his wife was a witch that she was practicing witchcraft and sorcery. Like, he went, I mean, he scorched earth his own wife for goodness sakes out of this whole thing. I mean, it's just absolutely awful the stuff that Ewald Frank did.

But that in a nutshell was the, it was to justify his remarriage after a divorce was really the whole basis on which he came up with it. And I don't know why he just didn't go the normal message route and say one, you know, one buck many does.

Like, I don't know why he didn't do that, John, because that's what the main sect does. Whenever they want to have a sex scandal. But Ewald Frank chose to do the two soul doctrine to justify his sex scandal.

It's unbelievable, man, to think that a doctrine would emerge because of a sex scandal. And then to think that that doctrine would be adopted by so many people and would suddenly spread into other countries.

It's a little bit difficult to believe. But that's the way this message evolves and grows. And what's really, really interesting because I've been to multiple message churches. Each one, we traveled mostly the main sect.

But even within the main sect, what happened is you had things like this, maybe not as disastrous to a ministry as a sex scandal. But things that were not of God, I'll just say it like that, produce doctrines.

And then those doctrines would be adopted by a particular church. Well, within the message, you have a large number of people who are migrating from church to church because they'll sit through one minister and what...

whatever portion of William Brannum's conflicting theology they adopted, whichever side of the conflict they adopted, as soon as that minister says the other thing that William Brannum said about the same theology, they raise their hands and say, nope, this guy, he's off base.

He did not listen to William Brannum. William Brannum clearly said this other thing that conflicted with what William Brannum said. And then they migrate to a new church. But at the same time, there's this weird high breeding that goes on with the doctrines because they have heard and adopted some of the things that the ministers have said.

Those ministers usually point back to what William Brannum said rather than what the Bible said. And so they think that it's what William Brannum really taught. Some of the doctrines that I have seen William Brannum never ever really taught what they believe, but they have adopted it in their minds as though he did.

And then that kind of spreads throughout the movement. So what you see is this weird high breeding of doctrines, some of which William Brannum did create, and some of which other ministers created themselves.

So as the news of the sex scandal goes far and wide, and he will, Frank, he actually starts printing some tracks on this two-sole business and circulating it in order to try and kind of justify everything.

And as he does that, John, I mean, I'm telling you, you, you, I have a serious accusation of quotes from all the other centrum key preachers across the message community responding to all of this.

And they just tore Ewald Frank to shreds, John. I mean, you know how it is in the message. I mean, if there's blood in the water, the sharks are swimming, and Ewald Frank is being viciously attacked by everybody.

I mean, he is sermon fodder, coast to coast in the United States. He's sermon fodder in every message church around the world that is not, you know, respecting him as a senior figure. So he is, he is let on fire burn to the ground by the main sack, by my sack, by the thunders, by, and, and I think of all of the groups that went after him, John, leaveale seemed to have the most fun with it.

You know, he was the ex-rated preacher. His sermons, when he talked about the two-sole doctrine, I can't even repeat the stuff that he said in those sermons, John, but leaveale had the most fun with like burning Ewald Frank to the ground.

He had some kind of vendetta about him. But anyways, as the dust settles on all of that, Ewald Frank basically holds on to maybe a third, maybe a third of the international mission network, as he was at that point, like he was the center of mission activity.

His church over was the primary center of mission activity in the Eastern hemisphere, you know, Africa, Europe, especially Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, a little bit into South America. His church was the center of all of that mission work, a lot of the money that spawns.

that it was flowing through his church, certainly almost all of the foreign language literature was being produced through his church. So he was very well positioned, John, to hold onto a large part of the international mission network.

And a lot of his success in holding onto it, you gotta remember back then in the 80s, there wasn't the internet, right? There wasn't Facebook, like you couldn't, the whole world couldn't find out that this thing happened, you know, these people, they a lot of them didn't even have telephones and stuff back then, John.

I mean, we're talking third world, you know, developing countries, poor people. A lot of them did not even know this thing had happened. And so he's still just going around doing his thing and he's not even telling a lot of them that it even happened.

Here's what happens in Africa, John. Like Raymond Jackson had some preachers in Ghana, follow Ewald Frank around Africa and every church. And then when he'd leave, they'd go in and tell everybody about a sex scandal.

Like they've trailed him around Africa even, John. That's how they kind of started to get the news out about it. And it was some vicious stuff that happened back then, but gradually as the dust settles, Ewald Frank ends up with I would estimate about a third of the, you know, international mission network left.

And that is massive though. I mean, that is massive, massive, massive, because the majority of the message believers by the mid 1980s are living in Africa. And so Ewald Frank, I mean, he is very, he's immediately the second largest sector of the message as he breaks away with this just massive chunk of the broader message community generally loyal to him.

And as he does that, that is also when he begins to develop the belief and teach the belief that he is the quote unquote faithful servant of Matthew 24, they're at the end of Matthew 24, who then is the faithful servant to give his people meat and do season.

Ewald Frank says, it is me, ladies and gentlemen. And so that then elevates him up into this God servant.

And I believe that verse goes on to say, whom he has made ruler over his household, right? So Ewald Frank presents himself, I am ruler over the church. I am the faithful servant. I am the most senior message preacher in the world.

Hear me. And that's what he and his sect begins to honor him as the faithful servant. This two soul doctrine is critical only because that's how he justified his sex scandal. And other than that, he doesn't deviate too terribly far from message orthodoxy as the years go by.

Another interesting point with Ewald Frank's doctrine. Once you produce this notion, you're edging very close to what would be a polygamy doctrine. And if you think of Ewald Frank's impact on the global message community, it seemed as though his strongest foothold happened to be in Africa where there were many, many people who were practicing polygamy.

We've mentioned it before I've had people from Africa who were in the message, who supported what I was doing, because the main sect was denying that William Brannum introduced polygamy in his marriage in divorce sermon.

And they were feeding me all kinds of information about the heads of the message call, which is kind of funny when you think about it. This was still a message group led by a message minister who was practicing or teaching polygamy.

But Ewald Frank's doctrine would have been very compatible with those who taught polygamy. So if you look at the world and look at the impact of Ewald Frank's spreading of the message, I would say that Africa probably had the strongest community of Ewald Frank followers.

I would agree with that. The overwhelming majority of his followers were in Africa. And in fact, as I've mentioned, you know how his church fell apart, he repopulated his church in Crefield primarily by drawing people in from the overseas mission networks.

And this is true of a lot of message churches in Europe. I would say the majority of message believers in Europe, John, are actually African immigrants to Europe. And the same is true in the United States.

I mean, I bet we're at a stage in the United States where maybe 25% of message believers in the United States are African immigrants to the United States, even, right? Like it's even the old message centers are drawing from the mission networks in order to populate their churches, you know, so yeah, Ewald Frank just drew a lot of those people into Europe, right, and helped plant them into message churches in Europe among, you know, African migrant communities over the years.

So Ewald Frank, as you mentioned there, John, when the sex scandal really became really huge public knowledge in 1984, that was roughly about the same time that Sidney Jackson died. Remember Sidney Jackson was the preeminent message missionary in Europe.

He partnered with Ewald Frank. Well, he died right about that same time that all of this was happening. And naturally, Ewald Frank was there to step in and fill the void created by Sidney Jackson.

And to make matters worse, Perry Green had totally robbed Sidney Jackson blind just before he died. And so the main sect of the message had kind of been, Perry Green was very much main sect at that point in time, had kind of taken a punch in the face, you know, because the chief missionary in Africa had been robbed blind by one of the senior leaders of the main sect of the message.

Well, we'll talk about that more when we talk about Perry Green. So Ewald Frank is naturally positioned to come in and more or less take over this little seminary that that Sidney Jackson had been already running with some of his financial support to help create the mission networks in Africa and step in to hit fill his views in Africa with his own people and that's exactly what he did and he got a lot of Sidney Jackson's mission network absorbed up into his sect of the message.

Now what happened there is Sidney Jackson as we've pointed out before, Sidney Jackson was a polygamist. He had two wives for sure that I'm aware of. I think he might have had more but for sure he had two wives.

By the time he died, when he died I believe he only had one wife as far as I know. I believe that one of them had died before him and he was down to one wife when he died.

But anyway, Sidney Jackson had been a huge promoter and tolerator of polygamy in Africa through the mission network and so when E.W. Frank comes in, I've mentioned how he's ecumenical. He'll get along with anybody in order to come work with that group of people, he's got to tolerate polygamy too John and that's exactly what he did.

Now I have the way it goes is a publicly officially E.W. Frank would say I don't support polygamy. That was his official public position to his European following, to the North American following in Africa.

It was like this. I don't believe in polygamy but hey, go ahead and do it anyway, I'm not going to stop you. That's how it was. Or he would just not take a position, right?

He would more or less let anything be that wanted to be and he wouldn't really do anything about it. He was just more interested in basically being a leader and having the following. And so a large chunk of the E.W. Frank sect in Africa is embracing accepting a polygamy and that became a huge point of contention also for people in North America in Europe who objected to E.W. Frank.

They would go to Africa. They would see some of the message people and discover, oh my goodness, percentage of these guys are a polygamous here in Africa and E.W. Frank and they're saying E.W. Frank tells them it's okay and they're saying Sydney Jackson tells them it's okay and they're kind of starting to confront E.W. Frank over it through the same time like why are you not why are you letting all of your followers in Africa that want to be polygamous be polygamous and not do anything about it.

So E.W. Frank is kind of in this position where he's not necessarily promoting the polygamy but he's inherited all the polygamy followers and he but he can't he don't want to alienate them by confronting them but now he's dealing with all the blowback from the other sects of the message for tolerating it.

And so it's just this it's just this big ugly mess John. I mean it's just a big ugly mess. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

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Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but these are the fruits that are being produced by the core of the message. And when you have such a conflicting theology, it really opens the door for things like this, because any minister can pick almost any doctrine.

And William-Brandham taught variations of that, some variations in polar opposite conflict of the other versions that he taught. And so whenever something arises where a minister needs an out, they will take one path, the path that is least familiar with what William-Brandham said, that supports whatever there is, whatever is their agenda, and then they push that agenda and drive people away from the thoughts of whatever happened that's negative in their ministry.

So Ewald Frank is making this big, huge mess. And you know, I know it was different in your sect, but in the main sect, we had almost fully erased Ewald Frank from our memories and thoughts and existence.

He was just some wacko that was in another country. And we had, through the cult doctrinal progression, we had basically erased him from our minds as having been such a key figure. But he was a pretty significant figure in the message.

I would agree, John, and people in the main sect, you know, he was more important than just about any preacher in the main sect of the message, to be honest with you. He was more important than Billy Paul.

He was more important than Joseph. He was more important than Perry Green. There are very few people who rose to the level of Ewald Frank's importance. There are, he singularly converted more people of the message than anyone else.

And he was the key figure in international message missionary efforts until he broke away in the mid-80s. And the whole reason the voice of God even had to start all of their literature translation stuff, you know, coming into the later 80s was because they'd lost Ewald Frank and they lost all the international literature, right?

And you're right. I mean, that people just stop talking about it and pretend like the past never happened, you know, after a certain point, it's really, it's so bizarre how these things happen. Like Raymond Jackson, for example, had been in Ewald Frank's church like a year before the sex candle pump, not, you know, knowledge broke out in 83.

Perry Green was still going over, you know, and visit... You know, all of, and even Billy Paul, toured some with Ewald Frank up into the 80s, John. I mean, it was, it was a big deal what Ewald Frank was doing.

And like I said, he is definitely to this day, you know, the founder of the second largest sect of the message. And we'll talk more about some of those demographics of what that looks like.

So now, back to the polygamy stuff. Whether Ewald Frank publicly endorsed polygamy or not, I'm not sure. Like I have not, I can't find anything on record where he publicly endorsed polygamy. However, it was always rumored that he publicly, that he was endorscing it privately in Africa.

And there is really just absolutely overwhelming evidence that at the very least he was entirely tolerant of polygamy among his followers in Africa. So that's kind of what we can be sure about. So another really unusual thing among Ewald Frank's sect of the message, John.

And some of this too, I'd be honest. I think it goes again back to Sidney Jackson and you know, the apartheid days in South Africa when all of this stuff was, you know, being spread.

They taught the fully racial version of serpent seed to a number of their African followers, John, you know? And it is that, it is this way to the day, this day in Ewald Frank's sect of the message.

And I'll be honest, a lot of message sex in Africa that are still headed by, you know, some of the original sects. The Africans always take a subservient role to the white European people.

It's just, that's how it is. There is no message church in which non-white people take a senior role over the white people that I am aware of in any of the major sects. It's always the white people in the senior leadership roles.

And they even believe serpent seed a lot of them in somewhat of the racial way. And one of the, I think the most bizarre case and points of that, which we, a man we've mentioned in a number of times was named Cacao Philippe in Ivory Coast of Africa.

Now Cacao Philippe was converted to the message by Ewald Frank, you know, is very, you could almost consider them a breakaway sect from Ewald Frank at this point. You know, Ewald Frank is dead at this stage, but they broke away from Ewald Frank.

I don't want to say probably five to 10 years ago. And Cacao Philippe is, he preaches, and this is an African man, a French-speaking African man. He preaches the fully racial version of serpent seed.

He says European, your Africans must be subservient to Europeans. He says decolonization of Africa was a sin. He teaches that no African president should have any authority unless they give him permission, you know, by what he says, quote unquote, the white man.

It's bizarre stuff, John, and they actually believe that they can only be blessed and only be prospered when they're in a position of servitude to white people, Europeans. That is the flat out verbatim stuff that they teach, okay?

And again, I think I can understand how apartheid South Africa and different things, how some of that stuff was actually permissible to be taught and accepted, you know, in the 80s and 90s even, but it's really bizarre, John, that there's a number of these African sex and members of Ewald Frankseck that believe this stuff and actually teach it, right?

They teach the fully racial version of serpent seed. I know we've driven this point home many times through the course of the rest of our revival history series, but we get feedback often that because the message produces a large number of people who are either African-American or have some variation of black skin, that the white supremacist views of the clan that were supported by William Brannum in several of his conflicting doctrines and supported by many of his peers, such as his mentor, who was a, you know, the supreme religious figure and eventually the imperial wizard of

the clan. Because there are people with black skin, they try to make the argument that the message is not a racist movement. However, there's a large history that is fully unknown by many of these people.

And that is the fact that it wasn't such that the people who were in white supremacy were wanting to just outright eradicate and eliminate people who had black skin. It was more to the effect that they wanted to control them.

Kakao Faleep is a prime example of what I'm talking about. He fully adopted the notion that he was inferior and that's what he teaches to his congregants. And he's ironically created a large movement in Africa that's teaching this weird thing.

It reminds me of the Dave Chappelle skit where the blind man does not know he's black and he's attending white supremacy conferences and movements. Well, that's what's happening. These men wanted to control them.

And I've heard the argument also, William Brannum had black people in his congregation that wasn't unheard of by white supremacists of the era. They wanted to influence them and teach them exactly what Kakao Faleep is indoctrinating his people to believe that they were a separate people, a separate race for a separate purpose.

They weren't the same as people who had white skin. And so again, a broken record I know. But that is the fruits of William Brannum's ministry. I know looking at some of the breakaway sex of Ewold Brank's group in Africa is just one of the best ways to see just in a very obvious way how some of this stuff is is practice by African people.

Now do all the African message believers believe this way? Absolutely not. I mean there are there's a lot of them that they never told it to like they never told them. And but even among them, John a number of them a number of the African sex who've entirely broke away from the main branches of the message and they're like purely African sex. Some of them you even see this in our comment feeds believe that white people are the serpent seed like they can totally reverse it right? And then there's other groups who believe the Arabs are the serpent seed right? So even among

the Africans a lot of them do take a racial view of it as well. They just you know don't think it's them right? So it's so unusual and unfortunate you know how this ideology spread but yeah I mean serpent seed has always been a racial doctrine from the time it was you know created.

It was racialism spread around the world. Some people didn't pick up on it. Some people they didn't tell it to real plain but the people who were willing to hear it John like you know how it is in the message how they they warm you in. Are you ready for the higher level of truth my brother?

Are you want to know the advanced mysteries of the Bible my brother? You know the people who are open to it they do and and some of the people like Kakao Ali somehow embrace that stuff thinking that they're at a higher level of mystery and a higher level of understanding and there's some greater reward in heaven for them by observing this thing they think is in the Bible.

Another thing that's interesting as it relates to Ewald Frank when you consider the global spreading of the message how and why it began to spread how Christian identity entered into it. It was largely a result of World War II. World War II had basically birthed the notion that we're now seeing the wars to end all wars. World War III is coming we just had World War II and there were woven threads of what happened with World War II throughout the message. William Brannum's seven prophecies for example have key points that relate all the way back to World War II.

And what's interesting is from that from the war and from the people who were involved in the war Ewald Frank living in Germany right in the heart of this the laterane movement made it's way back into Germany and many Pentecostals in Germany were starting to adopt the laterane theology. So you see this real complete circle that's coming back into Germany and we have key figures like the Fellowship Foundation, referred to as the family.

You have the German Baron William T. Freire von Blumberg, who's organizing all of that revival as he's trying to push the fellowship into other nations. He takes William Brannum into this region. That's where, if I remember correctly, that's where E.W. Frank first came in contact with the message and that's where it all began to blossom.

So as it's developing in Germany, it takes this even weirder shift. You're correct, John, because when William Brannum first came to Germany in 1955, E.W. Frank was not the only German message believer that William Brannum met.

There was another man named Paul Schaefer, who we've talked about before. Paul Schaefer and E.W. Frank met William Brannum met essentially the same time, as far as we know, they were both participating in his Karlsruel meetings in Germany.

Now, E.W. exactly how Paul Schaefer ended up in Chile in South America is a bit mysterious to us. Somehow or another, he got an invitation from the Chilean government to open a charitable, religious community in Chile.

And he was offered this while he was a fugitive fleeing authorities for molesting children, okay? How does this happen? It's unusual, right? How do these things come together like this? But nevertheless, somehow he got offered this opportunity.

Clearly, someone behind the scenes was pulling strings, right? I mean, that's the only way something like this happens. Somebody behind the scenes was helping facilitate all of that. And so anyways, he ends up going to Chile, right?

And opening Colonia Dignidad, just a horrendous cult commune that we've talked about a number of times in the podcast series. And it was just a horrible community, right? I mean, they, Paul Schaefer basically was using the whole thing as a ruse in order to allow him to have unlimited access to young boys, which he could torture and molest, right?

And besides that, he was working with the Chilean government they tortured and murdered perhaps thousands of people in Colonia Dignidad, like the number is unknown. But potentially thousands of people mass graves, they ended up before the dictatorship ended in Chile.

They, the witnesses at Colonia said they exhumed all the mass graves and they took all of the remains out and dumped them at sea in order to cover up all the crimes. It's just horrendous stuff that happened there.

Besides that, they were making, they basically set up a military compound run by the cult, you know, run by a, you know, brainwash cult followers and they, mass-produced weapons in this place. They had weapons manufacturing centers for small arms, heavy arms. They were building cluster bombs. They were building. They were manufacturing siren gas. You know, weapons of mass destruction even at this place. And this is a commune launched by preachers out of the message. And we know Ewold Frank is visiting there often on. There's a book by Carlos Basso. It's called Lisekta Perfecta. He's a professor and a journalist in

Chile who has spent decades investigating and amassing this massive collection of documents. And we reference that a bit in some of our prior episodes, but there's fairly good documentation for all of this stuff. And through all of that period of time, Ewold Frank is traveling to Chile and visiting them. And there's this mysterious Mr. Crefield in a lot of the communications documents that they have that is like the German backer of Cologne. And you know, as time goes on, the government in Chile changes, Paul Schaefer ends up in jail, right? And when that happens, when Paul Schaefer ends up in jail, Ewold Frank comes back to Chile again. He visits Cologne

and he dignity at Ewold Frank, commissions new spiritual elders, new elders for the Cologne community. And he takes back to Germany with him the key figures that are wanted for helping Paul Schaefer, Albert Schreiber, the chief bookkeeper who has control of all of Cologne and dignity dad's finances, comes back to Germany and becomes a member of Ewold Frank's church.

Heart-moved Huck, the cult doctor who was involved in rapes and tortures and molestations, and and producing the weapons and managed mass destruction, moves back to Germany and starts attending Ewold Frank's church. And they bring like the key figures who control the money and the assets and lots of back to Germany. And they are in Ewold Frank's church on the other side of this.

And so it's shocking stuff. It really is very shocking, but this is all happening within Ewold Frank's orbit within the message. It is incredibly shocking. Until I came across Carlos Basos' research, and this was before he had written his book, I had no idea how strong the ties were between the torture compound, Cologneia, Dignidad, and the message. I had seen various fragments of information. One of the first things that I saw was the fact that they were playing Brandon's voice from the same recordings that I listened to as a child, to help brainwash the people within Cologneia, Dignidad, through loudspeakers, etc. I came across an article

that just briefly mentioned this, and it was not anything that was anti-Branum, it was really anti-terrorism, and I think that's the best way to describe that history. And they were talking about what happened within the colony, horrific things that I can't even say or YouTube might not allow me to upload this video.

It's pretty bad stuff, but I came across his research, and he was working on the book that you mentioned, and I think it's called Lisecta Perfecta, it's only in Spanish. And he and I began to collaborate on exposing the deeper ties to Laterane between the two, that, you know, what was happening in Germany, what was happening in Calonia, Dignidad.

So we put our heads together in our research, and it was even more shocking towards the end of it, because he was starting to make connections that I had missed in Laterane and vice versa.

And towards the end of it, I've read his book, I had to go through a translator. And towards the end of our research, he created a strong argument that E.W. Frank was deeply tied to this movement.

And also he had some declassified documents from Chile, where E.W. Frank was not even permitted back into Chile over this colonial Dignidad issue, this was a big deal. So we put our heads together, I put what I could from his document in my book, Weaponized Religion from Laterane to colonial Dignidad.

It heavily relies on the research that he did. And vice versa, he has a lot of footnotes of mine, but we began to expose this. It hit the news in his country, I think he did several interviews.

And what's interesting, I can't talk too deeply about this, but what happened at Calonia Dignidad, there was a strong USA military, I think it was called the DIA, Dina was working with the DIA, which is the military equivalent of our CIA.

And they were collaborating to help install Augusto Pinochet. And then in the aftermath, they were kind of controlling the region, which gets really weird and really beyond what is declassified. I can't talk too much about this, but after I produced this, I started getting calls and having to do screen shares and video conferences with government officials who were curious to know how much that I knew, I'll just say it like that, and I'll stop there because I don't want to say too much.

That's the level of complexity of this mess that you all Frank was involved with. When you consider the vast expanse of how William Brannum's message infiltrated religion, government, we're talking here espionage, there's so many aspects to this, it's multifaceted.

Was William Brannum involved in all of those facets? I don't know, but again, you examine the fruits and you can see what the tree is made of. What we have here is so bad that if I were to describe it in full, number one, YouTube might not let me upload it, but number two, the government might not let me upload it.

It is such shocking stuff, and you're right. I believe it was the Chilean secret service. For some reason, thought Ewald Frank was deeply involved with the stuff at Cologne and they actually intercepted him at the airport at one point and deported him from Chile when he was trying to visit Cologneia, Dignidad.

You know, there's just so much unusual stuff there that's hard to explain, and the fact that the key figures of Cologneia to avoid being arrested, flee to Germany and take refuge in Ewald Frank's church, I mean, I don't know how much clearer evidence there can be that they're working together.

I mean, does it get any clearer than that? I mean, the key guys, Fleet Chili, moved to Germany and take refuge in Ewald Frank's church. I mean, there's no way around it that they're working together.

And yeah, I mean, there's pretty solid clues there that there is some sort of a clandestine operation, a some sort going on around and all of that. And, you know, here's the thing, John, there is, I think there is good evidence, circumstantial certainly, that other groups of this nature, maybe not a severe Cologneia Dignidad, also exist in other places in Ewald Frank's church, right?

Especially the Democratic Republic of Congo, right? I mean, a large faction of Ewald Frank's followers were in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And there is evidence that these sort of really clandestine ugly things are happening in some of these other unstable countries where Ewald Frank's groups have a presence.

And so I would not at all be surprised to find out, John, that there are other Cologneia Dignidad type places that we just don't know about because it's never came out, right? And I have a feeling that there's some in the DRC, at least if not in other places as well.

But yeah, it's really crazy, really crazy, really sad and the horrors, the horrors that have just been absolutely perpetrated through some of these people. I mean, mass murders, mass murders, I mean, it is crazy this stuff.

And there's also evidence of a lot of serious violence happening in DRC among message believers there as well who are affiliated with Ewald Frank. So just shocking stuff, John, that Ewald Frank was involved in.

Now here's the other thing too, this actually made the news, John. This was on the equivalent to international news in Europe, maybe 10, 12 years ago. I don't know if you know that the last time I was in Europe visiting a message church is John.

I was having a conversation with... the message preacher there, and he says to me, have you heard the news about eWald Frank's church? I said, what do you mean? He says, well, it was in our television news here in Europe that he has the Skapies of Cologne in his church.

Like, oh really, it's on international news here in Europe. John, they saw it on TV, the other message preachers over there. Now I wanna ask you this, have you heard a single message preacher anywhere ever have the least bit of comment about this?

No, no, nobody has said a peep about this. But this was in international news even that eWald Frank was involved in this stuff. And there was like mass protests outside his church in Germany even over this.

Like, and you don't hear a peep out of anyone in the message community that even wants to say anything about this. There are mass murderers in message churches in Europe. And nobody in the message wants to say anything about this.

How can you feel safe in a message church, John? How can you feel safe going to message churches where yeah, there's some mass murderers over there. We don't, well, you know, we'll get along with them.

It's crazy, John. I mean, it's absolutely crazy that the message community tolerates this sort of stuff. And there's not even a peep and it just goes to show a the level of brainwashing, b the level of control that these leaders have, right?

I mean, it is absolutely crazy that eWald Frank got away with this. eWald Frank got away with bringing the mass murders back to his church and nothing happened to him within the message community at all.

Nothing was done. You know, we've had the conversation, not just you and I, but some of the other series that I'm doing, how the ministers who are trying to protect the cult ideology do not want the congregations to realize that they're not living in the same eternal bliss that they preach.

And so you have things like there are child predators that are involved in many of these movements. And knowingly, there are children at risk and the minister will not warn the congregation, hey, there's a risk here.

I have actually been in a church, a non-cult church that had that conversation. We were all held after service one Sunday and they began to describe there was a situation in the church, warn the parents that their kids might be at risk.

Please be careful. I've been in a meeting like this, but in the cults, it's not like this. And what we're describing, I document it more fully than I can in this video in my book from Lateran to Galonia Dignidad.

The things that were happening were so horrific that I cannot even describe. And yet, as you said, he walled Frank, as one of, was one of the key figures. in the message, he was probably one of the more important ones, especially considering his vast, you know, network and empire of message cult in his sect.

This is one of the key figures. And there are people, I know people personally who are migrating from Europe into the United States and vice versa. I did not hear a single message minister warn the congregations, hey, there's a really bad thing happening.

You guys need to be careful. I didn't hear a one single minister doing this. It's shocking, isn't it, but not only did not a single message preacher say, hey, there's a mass murderers in our churches, guys, how do you, how do you live with yourself without warning people?

But even more, why didn't they send them back to stand trial? They're fugitives. I mean, they were wanted men with, you know, warrants out for their arrest. Why did the message hide them? Like why?

It's just such a, you know, when you see things like this, I mean, this is just the response of the message community, the whole thing was terrible. So there's that. So Ewald Frank actually only died very recently.

Ewald Frank lived, I believe to 2023, 2024. He's passed away within just the last year, roughly, and his sect of the message survived all the way up until his death and is still here today.

I'm very curious to see what's going to happen. My guess is a lot of it, John, is going to get absorbed into the main sect is probably what's going to happen, you know, following his death time will tell and prove that out.

But hopefully it's an opportunity for a lot of people to wake up and escape as well. Ewald Frank's following is very large. I in my book, John, I estimated he had 250,000 followers in his church.

That's my conservatively low estimate. He himself, of course, claimed it was in the million, which I don't know, you know, it's so hard to know of that millions, you know, over 50% were in the supposedly in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

But it is a large following. It's a large following across Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, Southeast Asia, a bit, a little bit in South America and a little bit in North America. But Ewald Frank is definitely the mate, his sect, the two sole people are definitely the largest sect of the message in the Eastern hemisphere.

They're larger than the main sect in Africa. They're larger than the main sect, I think, in Europe. They're a very big, very large, very important sect of the message. And so I think that's where we ended today, John, there's so much more we could say about this.

I mean, isn't there? I mean, we could just, there's so much more we could say about all of this. But I mean, I think we've, we've given people a bit of a picture into Ewald Frank's sect of the message.

I think we've driven the point home pretty well, but you know, one of the things that you mentioned, there may be other instances like this, as Carlos Basso and I were going through all of the...

histories and comparing notes. I went through world news and identified several other compounds, maybe not as bad as Colonia Dignidad, but with very similar things happening. And in his book, he documents a lot more than I did. I think I put a few examples in my book, but you have message cult communities that are either influencing or in some cases, there's one example in the book where it's literally taking over the established government. That's how strong and powerful these groups grow. And it was tied to arms deals and all kinds of other things, which is, again, I don't want to say too much because I don't want to have more conversations with

government officials, but this turns into a big mess. This message is a big mess. And I think I'll just leave it at that. So thanks, thanks for doing this, Charles. I know that there's a lot more that we could say, but I think we'll end it here and save all of the fun for next time. So thank you for doing this. Sounds good, John. Come back next time, listeners. We'll be moving on to another sect of the message with some lots of interesting stuff. I think if we don't keep it like one or two episodes per sect, John, we will never get done. We'll be doing this the rest of our lives because

there are so many sects of the message, John. We've got two more major sects to cover. And then, hey, maybe we'll do some episodes on, you know, some of the minor sects, too. So.

Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org and ChristianGospelChurch.org. For more about the history of William, Brandon, and the healing revivals, you can read Come Out of Her My People. And for more about the dark side of the NAR, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

You can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.