Pearry Green's Criminal Empire Inside William Branham's Cult - Revival History

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend, Charles Paisley, the founder of ChristianGospelChurch.org, and the author of come out of her, my people.

Charles, it's good to be back, and I almost decided to change the intro song for this one because I have a family member. I don't know if we've ever talked about this. I have a family member who was frequently in the cop's show. I don't know if you remember that show, but it started out bad boys, bad boys, what you want to do, what you want to do when they come for you. Well anyway, I have a family member who was in that show frequently, so much that he was in the introduction, and if I pointed out where in the introduction everybody would figure out who it is, but he was

a frequent guest, and he was chasing down criminals, and there was often this theme where a criminal would have an ankle bracelet and break it off, or things like this, and you watch that show, and you think, well, wow, that's the other side of life. While I was in the message, that's the other side of life. People in the message would never do this. You can't imagine my surprise when I learned that Perry Green, for I can't remember how long it was, but during the last years of his life, he had one of those ankle bracelets because he was a criminal, and that's not widely

published in the message. Like, nobody in the church openly said, hey, did you know that brother Green was caught and convicted and is now a criminal? Instead, what happened is the kind of disavowed him, because I think they were scared that people might find out that the message is critically flawed, and there's so much to talk about today. Like, I don't want to start out there because we have so many bigger things, but every single aspect of Perry Green that we knew and thought of, he, when you listen to a recording, William Brandon frequently mentions Perry Green,

and he's one of the key pillars of the message, right? And I even have his book, Acts of the Profit, and this book was widely respected in the message, and you've got a copy too. We'll get into it later, but the surprise and shock and awe, whenever I learned that my, my book doesn't match yours, Charles. Oh my goodness, John. We've got so much to talk about.

Today, we're gonna try and fit it in. We've only been doing two episodes on each sector of the message, but we might have to do more than two here, John. We'll see. You're right, John.

I mean, it's crazy. And you know, you make cultural references like the cops and show, but I spent most of my life in a cult, and I don't understand a lot of those cultural references, John.

I've never seen that before. There's sometimes our listeners may notice that I've kind of blank and I don't know these things, but that's why I lead a gentleman. I mean, we spent most of our lives in a cult, okay?

And we just do not have awareness of a lot of stuff like this. Okay, but yeah, that's interesting. So, yeah, so Perry Green, yeah, he's a criminal. And he was also one of the most senior leaders of the message.

But let's talk about that. Why don't we just start out there, John? I mean, let's just, we're leading up to, what ends up leading Perry Green to break off from the message is the copyright wars, which in my opinion was instigated somewhat in response in retaliation to his criminality, okay?

So, talking about his criminality is probably a great place to start. Yeah, so I mean, Perry Green, Perry Green was a crook. He was a thief, he was a robber, he scammed people, he hoaxed people, he had financial schemes, I mean, and the tune of money that he extorted, stole, cheated, everything would certainly be in the millions of dollars.

I mean, it was a vast sum of money that he did this with. And, you know, and we're not guessing. Like, we don't got to guess these things. I mean, we have the documentation of the court cases, you know, and it was all, it was fairly big news back in the day when a lot of this stuff was going on.

But let's just start talking about there. So, Perry Green, in our last episode, we were talking through some of his business enterprises. And among his many business enterprises, John, was a travel agency. And the travel agency that he set up is, that's the good place to start.

So that'll lead us right into a lot of the criminal stuff, John. So the travel agency that he started was, you know, today people probably have no idea really what the old travel agencies are like.

Because today you can get on the internet right, you can go to Expedia, you can book your own hotel, you can book your own plane ticket, book your own car, you can book your own vacations.

Well, you know, go back in time, there wasn't the internet. And if you wanted to book travel, you had to use a travel agent. So you'd call it a travel agent or travel agency.

And they would book your hotel and they would book your car and they would book your plane ticket and all the stuff you need to travel, right? You'd work with the travel agency. And this is how travel was done.

If you think for the majority of message history, this is how travel was done in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s. Don't even up through the 90s, you know, you still booked your travel through travel agency.

So it's real. only the early 2000s where it becomes common for people to go on the internet and book their own travel. So anyways, Perry Green sets up among his multiple businesses, he has a travel agency.

Now think about the message, ladies and gentlemen. The message is big for it's what international conventions where people come from all over the world and gather for conventions, okay? It is big for sending all of its missionaries around the world, right?

Who is the travel agency being used to book all of the international and travels and everything, ladies and gentlemen. Just think about this, Mr. Perry, Green's travel agency, okay? So he is, there's so many businesses he set up that are just setting there, they're profiting off of the message, okay?

If you were in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, John, and you wanted to travel to the international conventions, well you call up Perry Green's travel agency and you book your travel, right? This is how it was across a whole lot of the message, okay?

And so he set up and positioned to monetize the message on so many levels, right? And the last one we talked about how the people coming into the United States from overseas, employing them a lot in his businesses, cheap labor and his construction firms and different things.

Well, he's also monetizing all of the message travel. There's all kinds of stuff he's monetizing, John. And here, let me add this in too, because Perry Green traveled a lot to all the different sites and he would give his missionary sermons and talk about all how wonderful William Brannum was in all this.

Now we see that in the message as him talking about all the blessed holy things of William Brannum and the prophet, right? But it's also a sales pitch because Perry Green also had through his travel agency all of these places where you could come tour the holy sites of the message, John.

You know this. Terry Green had this whole travel thing set up where you can buy a travel package, John. And you can visit Blessed Jerusalem or Holy Tucson. And you too can see finger rock, John.

You too can see pulpit rock. You too can walk on the streets where the prophet walked. You can see the bridge where the 16 men fell to their death. You can see the sky where the face of Jesus himself appeared.

You know, and Perry Green is selling these tours to the message people through his travel agency, okay? And so when he is visiting all these places given his pitches, John, he is personally profiting, you know, at every stage of this thing on every level for decades, for decades.

You know, it's just, it's really unbelievable. Another cultural reference, which you probably won't get. But if you've ever seen the movie, Oh, Brother, War, Auto, Perry Green is the Bible salesman that is the criminal that attacks everybody, man.

It's just... When you look at all these enterprises and just take a step back, think about everybody that you knew who were the elite in the message and think about their travel agencies, their real estate agencies, and then all of the networks of businesses that collaborated with those.

And what you have is this pyramid scheme that is unbelievable, unbelievable. And I'll never forget my uncle, who I've mentioned him a few times, casualty. I can't say too much because there's actually a little bit of danger in going too far with this.

But my uncle had his funeral, and my uncle was well known for, and this is public, I can say this, he was well known for racketeering that was in the news, and he had all kinds of real estate businesses.

And his funeral, Billy Paul and Joe Brannum were bragging and bragging on my uncle because my uncle was able to fly them into Mexico without alerting the United States or Mexican government authorities that they were going to cross the United States border.

Think of that, man. Number one. What else was on the plane? What else was on the plane, but why were they so open with it? They were bragging about things that that's an international crime that they're talking about doing.

It wasn't recorded, unfortunately, but they're bragging about this, and now I have witnesses that were there who can back that up, but things like that were happening and going on. Well, with Perry Green, he was in all of that.

He had connections to the real estate business. I'm certain he was probably working with my uncle through various agencies. When I look at my uncle's massive, massive lawsuits that I can't get into that either, but compare those to what has been identified in Perry Green's legal documents.

There had to have been some sort of collaboration. Again, you go back to, he was a convicted felon, for theft, but one of the people, when I published his Perry Green's, and I'll throw it up on the screen if you're watching instead of listening, when I discovered Perry Green's ankle bracelet and they, you know, his conviction.

One of the people from Arizona pointed out to me, they said, oh my gosh, John, he was represented by Robert J. Hooker. This is the guy that represented all of the organized crime, whenever you wanted to get out of something, you were either cutting a deal with the government or something else shady was going on, you went to Robert Hooker, apparently.

I wasn't there. I don't know. I can only take their word for this, but I did, after they said this, I looked through some old newspapers and I'm scratching my head, thinking, you know, this doesn't sound right.

Why would Perry Green choose a public defender instead of hire his own attorney if he's being convicted of this man? As of, this is a serious crime. He was stealing government property. Why would he not get his own attorney?

Why would you say, okay, I'll just choose the public defender. I'm not gonna get my own attorney. I'm going to trust the city and the state of Arizona to represent me and protect me.

Why would you do this? And I kind of agree with a person who gave me the information. There's more here than meets the eye. There is. You know how we've pointed out that there's two William Brannems, right?

There's William Brannem, who's buried underneath the pyramid. And then there's William Brannem, his son, who went by the name Billy Paul. Well, did you know John, there's two parry greens. There are two parry greens.

Okay. There are two different parry greens, all right? And the parry green that William Brannem tends to mention on tape is not the parry green pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle. The parry green that William Brannem tends to most often reference in the Tucson Tabernacle was the man from Beaumont, Texas, who was parry green senior, parry green spotter.

They were both named parry green. And so a lot of people I think confuse the parry too when they listen on tape because it's not always clear which one William Brannem is talking about.

Parry green senior, who is another wealthy man of full gospel businessman, he was financially involved with William Brannem from fairly early on and doing stuff. But parry green, who became the pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle, he joined the message in 1964 and did all this.

He's the one we're specifically talking about, ladies and gentlemen, parry green the second one who was the pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle. So I say that there's two just to make sure I bring that to everyone's attention because you're gonna get pretty confused if you don't know that there's two and you start looking into parry green, especially William Brannem's comments about him, okay?

So, and again, it's weird, isn't it? And isn't it weird that most people probably don't even know that, know that, right? Why is it, why do you think that people obfuscate those facts, right?

Why did they hide that sort of stuff? I'll tell you why parry green, the pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle did it is because he was pretending that William Brannem was talking about him on tape all of those years in order to overstate his importance in the message, John.

The man was a scam artist, I'm telling you. So parry green, he was getting rich, scamming people all along, John. And he really was doing this from the very beginning. And like I said, he came into the inner circle of William Brannem, more or less elbowed his way in, offended lots of people.

Really, he was like a bull in a china shop in the early message community. He caused so many schism, so many divisions, so many problems. And he was doing his criminal stuff pretty well from the very beginning.

He would, let's give a couple very prominent, well-known examples of the sort of thing parry green was doing. Paragreen would convince people to make investments into one of his many businesses Okay, and it was usually large sums of money and two very, I think reasonably well-documented cases That we can point at is one of them would be the case of Sydney Jackson. Okay, Sydney Jackson. Who was Sydney Jackson? He was the The most senior message missionary working in Africa He actually had a little seminary and he was kind of the head of the most important African mission network

You know coming after William Brannum's death and he actually died Sydney Jackson died in I want to say 1984 somewhere in the mid 1980s I have the exact date in my book You know if if I could look it up but anyways, he died somewhere in the mid 1980s John and Somewhere along the line Harry Green had convinced Sydney Jackson. Give me your life savings I'll invest it in this travel. I'll invest in my travel agency. We're all invested in one of my businesses You know, and you'll be taking care of well, that's what happens and Sydney Jackson died

Well one of Sydney Jackson's widows he had at least one John Comes back to Paragreen after he dies said may I please have the money now? I need to you know live out my husband's gone You have our life savings Mr. Green. May I please have them back?

Paragreen says I'm sorry the investment failed you have no money and He Rob blind Sydney Jackson's family John The head missionary okay, and this happened right as the stuff with Ewald Frank was all Exploding to high heaven Well that event Pushed that whole missionary faction into the arms of Ewald Frank John And set the main set back in Africa in the 80s pretty badly right and so that's those the sort of thing That he's doing okay another example and probably the most well-known example of all is Sarah Brannum's story, right?

So Sarah Brannum very similarly when Sarah Brannum's mother Mita Brannum died So William Brannum's widow died She left Sarah Brannum an inheritance of some 50 some thousand dollars, and it was a similar amount that had been left with the Sydney Jackson's widow And in today's money, you know, we're talking close to a million bucks, you know Just in these two cases And so Sarah he does the same thing he says Sarah you're gonna go be a missionary in Guatemala with your husband Leave your inheritance here with me all invested in the travel agency all vested in my other businesses

And and you can just go be a missionary and have regular income out of your investment And so Sarah Brannum gives Perry Green something in the neighborhood of 50 to 60 thousand dollars back then Again, which you know vast much much larger amount today for inflation And So she does and of course we all know Sarah's story will probably do a more close to a full episode somewhere down the road Sarah ends up on the outs with her brothers. They end up, you know, dirt poor, you know, can't hardly afford food. It gets that bad for Sarah. And she comes back to Perry Green and says,

Perry Green, can you please get me my inheritance back? I need to, I need to feed my kids, right? And Perry Green tell Sarah, I'm sorry, your investment has failed. And there's no money to give back to you. And he robbed her blind too, John. And, and, you know, of course, Sarah made a big stink out of it and did, you know, all the lawsuits. But this is the sort of thing Perry Green was doing four decades, right? And I'll go through and I'll actually read out here before we're done, some of the different lawsuits Perry Green was involved in. But Perry Green was, Perry Green was a

criminal thief, taken investments into his business, telling the people the investment failed, and keeping all their money. And he was doing it to widows, he was doing it to people like Sarah, who's too poor to even fill their children, right? It's, it's horrendous stuff that Perry Green was doing. And the, and the trail of victims is vast and long. And it's almost entirely people in the message community that he was doing that to. And you think about this, he would do it to Sydney Jackson. And he would do it to Sarah, Brandon. There is nobody he would not do it to in

the message. And as we'll find out, he finally did it to the wrong person here before we're done with this. I will tell you who was. And for you who are researching the message and are largely unfamiliar with everything we're talking about, Perry Green was significant. There, there was a period of time up until what was it October, November of last year, where everyone in the message was proclaiming that the end of the world is very, very, very near, because we have a timeline. Perry Green helped establish the timeline. And it's in this book, acts, the acts of the

prophet by Perry Green. But the, the way the story goes is that William Brannum had a prophecy that sharks would be swimming where his son Billy Paul was before Billy Paul was an old man.

Now, at the time that William Brannum would have allegedly said this, wait, I don't know if he said it or not, but if he did, if Perry Green was right, the, I went back and looked at some statistics on that. Perry Green, to be an old man in those years, the age was like 55. In fact, William Brannum said that he was an old man on recording. So we, we can kind of establish a timeline of when is an old man. Well, during the 80s, Billy Paul was going from church to church on this big revival circuit. The end of the world is near. We're, we're so close because not too

much longer, brothers and sisters, I'm going to be an old man. I'm not an old man yet. And he was over the hill when he said this stuff, man. Well, Perry Green is the one who's largely responsible for this. So take a step back and think about everything that we're going to get into in this podcast. You have a man who's literally is a scam artist. You can go through the government records. You can read the things that we read if you can go to their internet websites where you can pull up his criminal record or

if you're local Therazona, you can go into the court systems, you can request these documents. This man was a criminal, he was a scam artist, he was a convict, he was a thief, and he was many, many things.

And what happens in the message that's just really ironic, Charles? These pillars of the message that introduce new prophecies, this was a new prophecy that's in this book, that you can only find it in this book.

They introduce these new prophecies and they're well respected, but you find that so many of them are shady characters, and when they get disavowed, what do you do with this? In many, many cases, the scam artist, who is scamming people, introduces something new to the message, he gets disavowed, but everything that he said stands until it has been proven false.

And then when it's proven false, oh, well, that guy was just a scam artist. It's a pretty simple pattern of logic. If they were lying about financial stuff in order to get money and they were lying about business investments and they were lying about this and lying about that and lying about the other, could it be they were lying about William Brown, too?

He'd come on. I mean, it's just in the answer in the end of the day is yes, ladies and gentlemen, they were, some of them were absolutely lying to us about William Brown. Let me start to go through just a list of cases, John.

I'm not going to like summarize all these, but what maybe we can do is we can put a list up for everybody as we as I just list all these out, but these are lawsuits that Sarah Perry Green was involved in and these specific ones I'm looking at are ones that Sarah Brown personally made us all aware of back in the back in the late 80s, okay?

And so these are from this list is from just court cases in Pima County, Arizona involving Perry Green and what a point out to you is most of these cases, I should say all of them, are involving either message people as the victims or message people's business enterprises as the victims.

This is entirely message on message lawsuits almost entirely here through here, John, that he's bringing out. But so I'll give the first one Victor Emmanuel versus Perry Green July 26, 1976, Mario Valisuela versus Perry Green February 26, 1979, Perry Green versus James Stewart July 11, 1979, Perry Green versus Antoine Wython February 18, 1981, Westco Inc.

August 10, 1984, here's one that people are going to maybe be surprised at Wayne Evans versus Perry Green August 31, 1984, if you're going to see a couple like these and these are the places where Perry Green started to step on the wrong people's toes.

Wayne Evans vs. Perry Green, August 31, 1984. And I'll point out you Wayne Evans is the father of the current pastor of Stoosant Abernacle John. Just for our listeners' reference, Bon Voyage travel incorporated versus Perry Green.

That one is October 15, 1984. The Tanner companies versus Perry Green, November 26, 1984. Desk, Paving vs. Perry Green, December 4, 1984. Territorial bank versus Perry Green, March 7, 1985. Hatco Inc vs. Perry Green, July 13, 1985.

Baum Adamson vs. Perry Green, June 20, 1985. Shamrock contracting versus Perry Green, September 11, 1985. This is how many in just one year, okay? Able Dole vs. Perry Green, January 29, 1986. Interstate bank versus Perry Green, June 26, 1986.

Joseph Evans vs. Perry Green, March 19, 1987. Okay, there's another familiar message name, right? That people probably glom onto. Trent Grimes vs. Perry Green, April 30, 1987. Tanner companies versus Green, again, June 5, 1987.

Presidio properties versus Perry Green, September 2, 1987. Okay, and I mean, we can just keep going, John. I mean, there is, there's literally 100 pages of these. And this is just the Pima County Arizona ones.

And if you, again, I'm not gonna detail them all out, ladies, or you're welcome to look into these. You adjust for Flation, there is a couple million dollars just in those cases right there, John, okay?

And it's all, and I'll just summarize what they roughly are. Perry Green wrote me a check for $10,000, and it was a bad check. It's like those kind of cases. I gave Perry Green a $50,000 loan, and he never gave me my money back.

It's cases like that, John. Every single one of them is something like that. And his victims are almost exclusively the message community, the message community. And at a certain point, this stuff gets to such a level that it starts to break down Billy.

It affects Billy Paul's relationship with Perry Green. That's really what's going on here. So the main sect of the message was held together. I wanna say, John, by an alliance between the Tucson Tabernacle and the Brannum Tabernacle, right?

And Perry Green, and Billy Paul's relationship with Perry Green, because Billy Paul controlled all the central institutions, right? And so you've got Billy Paul with the central institutions, the Brannum Tabernacle and Tucson Tabernacle, is basically the pillar that hold the main sect together for its first decades.

And slowly but surely, Perry Green. Robs and cheats and steals from so many people that Billy Paul can't just ignore it anymore, okay? And and I think John's it is his lawsuits and criminal activity with the Evans family specifically that leads to the deterioration and downfall of paragreens relationship with the main sect of the message and this is my take This is my opinion, okay?

Other people might have different opinions and different ways to interpret these things but that is my opinion and that is my take and As as that happens John, you know Billy Paul as you come into the 90s slowly starts to bring Mr. Joseph Brannum his younger brother into into power, okay?

That starts in the early 90s and whereas Billy Paul in an Perry green had kind of a long standing At least an alliance of of convenience, right? Whether or not they necessarily like each other an alliance of convenience in order to keep control That all goes out the window as with the rise of Joseph will do some full episodes, you know Maybe more on some of this down the road, but as that happens John that sets up The copyright wars and before we talk about the copyright wars, we're gonna talk about what the copyright wars were actually over but

That it's it's part of the main sex Unhappiness with Perry green that starts the copyright wars Perry green was the canary in the coal mine on the copyright wars and they started coming after the main sex started coming after Perry green Roughly 1989 and then into the early 90s and it cascaded into Perry green pulling in all kinds of people on his side Changing sides building a faction and basically causing a massive schism across the main sect of the message Into the late 90s and early 2000s and so yeah Crazy stuff John absolutely crazy stuff and all of these lawsuits

I mean we didn't make all this stuff up right? We it's in the court records You can just go look for yourself if you want and that timeline man I'm going through my head trying to remember when exactly it happened my grandfather was Insanely rich. I don't know if we've talked about that. I guess we have but my grandfather the head pastor of the brand I'm tabernacle who drove an old Lowe's mobile and Pretended to not have you know much money at all. So give me your ties brother It was filthy wealthy looking at the timeline looking at the criminal aspects of Perry green and

Also many of the other people who were in positions of power We've some of its documented on my website some of it. I can't yet. I have to hold back but When you look at this and you see the shift of power you have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes Because if you put it into a balanced scale here's the religion on this one side of the scale Here's all of the filth and dirt and scandals and corruption and criminal, all of this stuff in the balance scale, it heavily outweighs the religious part and so you have to suddenly, your face with the question, was this really

about religion or was this whole thing about something else? You know, John, when you actually, if you go back and you put the timepieces together and you look at all of Perry Green's lawsuits, kind of line them out chronologically, Perry Green was doing this all along.

He was doing this all along. And the other leaders of the message were okay with it all along, right? What changed in the 1980s that suddenly made it not okay for Perry Green to do this anymore?

What changed? He started doing it to them. He started doing it to them. That's the only thing that changed, right? That's it. That's it. He was doing this all along and that again goes to show the absolute corrupt wickedness of message leaders, right?

It's fine for Perry Green to rob the rest of you blind so long as he's not doing it to us because, hey, we're probably doing the same thing and they are probably, you know, what I mean?

It's okay for him to rob you, but don't you dare rob us, Perry Green, it's when he started robbing them. Yeah. That's what he finally went too far. Is it that? I mean, how awful is that?

I mean, just how absolutely awful is that? It's really unbelievable, Charles, and you know, I'm going to give you a task. After you watched, after you finished this podcast with me, I want you to go watch O'Brother Horathau, great, great movie, regardless of whether you're in a cult and when you see John Goodman, the Bible salesman, and he's, I won't give you the surprise what he does, but it's a great movie.

Go watch it. But all the laughter joking aside, it's really, it angers me because these are victims of a cult. They've already been victimized. They've already been robbed blind. They preach this tithing of 10 percent and Perry Green's sect was more strict as was my grandfather's.

I'm fairly certain that his church was the same way, but they really pushed that you be taxed on your, you be tied, I said taxed, you be tied on your pre-tax dollars. So when you got your check and you saw this big number at the top, that's what you paid your tithe on, the little smaller amount that's, you know, some people lose 15 to 35 percent or whatever it is.

That part is, that's your money, but you're going to be paying tax on the larger amount so that the pastor can get more money. And we've mentioned this before, every 10th person in the crowd, in the audience congregation, every 10th person is an entire salary.

So some of these churches with hundreds of people, man, they're making a killing off the money. These people have already been robbed blind and now you've got scam artists who recognize that, hey, I can drain them dry with tithe.

I wonder what other ways can I drain these people dry? Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation, you can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute

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It is important to acknowledge the human toll here, John, because I'm aware of people driven to suicide, you know, by the stuff with Perry Green. Perry Green drove a number of people to suicide with this sort of stuff. And of course, like the lawsuits and stuff I read, these are the people who were actually in a position to do something about it, right? You know, the average person that Perry Green robbed was in not a position to do anything but just be robbed and go along with it. Because to resist meant losing your wife or your husband, you're losing

your children, losing your home, losing your job, being kicked out of the church and going to hell, right? I mean, that in their mind, that is ultimately the decision that a lot of people had to make in order to confront Perry Green, and the average person that he did this to, that's not a risk they're going to want to take, right? Do I want to confront Perry Green to get my money back or do I want to go to hell? That is the decision in this mindset of the cult that a lot of the people are faced with, you know, when they're scammed in this way. And for a lot of

them, they go along with it, right? They just, they just, okay, I've lost everything. The Lord give us, the Lord take it the way. Here you go, you know, I mean, that's how a whole lot of people, you know, would take this thing, but it's only when he starts stepping on the toes of senior people in the message, right? Who are also wealthy, who are also, that is when the, the fight back finally comes and then it's not okay. And it's, it's sad, right? Because, because where, where were they standing up? Where was Billy Paul standing up for the little guys getting robbed? He wasn't,

they didn't care. Where, where was Ed Biscoll standing up for the little guy's Perry Green was robbing blind. Nowhere couldn't be found, you know, you go down the list, Tim Pruitt, Donnie Reagan, all the guys today were, where were they? When Perry Green was robbing the people blind, they had nothing to say about it, right? And they still have nothing to say about it, honestly, you know? And so the message just, they cover all this stuff up, no, this never happened, and you're making it all up.

Nothing to see here, ladies, gentlemen. Move along, move along, move along, you know. But this is the truth. I mean, Paragreen robbed all kinds of people blind and a number of them killed themselves, right?

And goodness gracious, Sarah Brannum disappeared. Where's Sarah Brannum at, ladies and gentlemen? There's a great question, right? There's one of his victims right there. So moving on, John, let's move on from financial crimes.

Okay. I can get a little tad hot under the collar with some of that stuff. It's just awful. It's awful the lives that have been outright destroyed by this stuff. And Paragreen, I mean, it's not limited to the main sect where Paragreen robbed all the...

Paragreen caused schisms through my sect, John. He caused problems like this all over the world in the message. I mean, it is... And the number of people he impacted is certainly in the tens of thousands, if not over 100,000 people, you know, with his ways, you know.

It's just unfathomable, you know, the scale of what Paragreen did. Let's talk about the other way that Paragreen monetized the message, which ultimately led into the copyright wars, okay? Paragreen monetized the message, also through control of message literature and Brannum memorabilia.

That's how I describe it, Brannum memorabilia, you know? Revival memorabilia, holy relics, you know, of the message. So he's monetizing that too. Early on, John. So early on, let's talk about the multimedia. Early on, Paragreen has...

He's the full gospel businessman. Paragreen is the man who gets deep call of the deep out of the full gospel businessman archives. He's the man who gets 20th century profit out of the full businessman archives, okay?

And through all the years, when people are getting deep call of the deep 20th century profit, that's all through the Paragreen Tucson Tabernacle channel, John. That's not through really, although it could be resold elsewhere, it's not necessarily through the voice of God's spoken word channel.

Paragreen and Tucson Tabernacle controlled a fair bit of the, we'll call it the intellectual property or the memorabilia of the message. They controlled a fair bit of that, and the end Paragreen was able to monetize that, okay?

Which is also, I think, why they tried to take over his church after he died, so they could transfer all the ownership of that memorabilia into the central institutions, okay? But we'll talk about that later.

That would be my opinion, you know, is why they went to all the efforts to take over his church after he died. Okay, anyways, step step him back out. So he's monetizing all this, John, and also early on, he's working with Roy Borders, the man who took over spoken word publications after Bankswood's resignation.

He's working with David Mammalis, and they're doing a lot of the, he's sponsoring a lot of the early literature work of spoken word publications, okay? And, and his very first book of all, John, the very first thing that, Perry Green sponsored on his own, was this book right here, Acts of the Prophet.

You've got a copy there. So this is the second edition of this book. You have in your possession, if you want to hold it up, you have the third edition of this book. And this here is the fourth edition of this book.

And there is a fifth edition, available in electronic format, which I don't have in paper, but I have in the electronic. So there are at least five editions of this book that I am aware of, John, there may be more, but there's at least five editions of this book.

But anyways, I think it's when Perry Green first did the first book here that he realized the lucrative nature of message literature publication. I want to explain how message literature publication is lucrative so that our listeners can can understand how it's monetized.

So Perry Green developed a missionary pitch, a missionary sermon that he delivered whenever he do his mission trips. And he did lots and lots and lots and lots. He did thousands probably of mission trips, probably probably 2000 mission trips in his life to convert people to the message or to talk about the message.

And in those pitches, he would give a sermon, and there's like a condensed version that would be two hours, and there's like an extended version that like six hours, right? And what this is, John, this is the printed version of Perry Green's missionary sermon that he gave from the very earliest days of him being in the message.

That's what this is. The people at people from Leo Mercer's Commune, John, in Prescott, Arizona, typed up his, yes, the torture and molestation commune, typed up. His missionary sermon and published the first edition of this book for him, okay?

And Hans White, the first edition's pretty hard to find. It's kind of a little bit rare. But Perry Green then took, I believe he discovered the lucrative nature of it. He ended up getting the first edition, and then they redid it through his church and he controlled publication from the second edition, okay?

And so what this is and what is so wonderful about having all five of these editions, John, is you can detect how Perry Green changed the story over the years. You can go back to the first edition and you can see how he was given the missionary sermon in the 60s.

You can go to the second edition, you can get, you know, through the 70s, you go to the third edition, you find it up to the 80s, you go to the fourth, you get to the 90s, you can go all the way today.

And you can see how the missionary, how the pitch to sell random changed in the main sect and different points that changed. And we'll all point out a few of those things to you.

And it was as he did that, he's, I think he learned how to monetize this stuff. And for our listeners, the way you make money on message literature, John, is not through selling the literature.

You don't. You don't sell it for hardly nothing. You're almost given the message literature way. You don't make money selling this literature. How do you make money? You make money by collecting donations because the poor people in Africa, John, need this blessed book on the prophet.

There are people in India, John. They must hear the message and be safe. Please donate money to the printing operations and we are going to take this blessed message to the ends of the earth.

That is how the money is made. And you go around and they collect the money from the people to cover all the printing operations. And yeah, and they go give this stuff away cheap.

They give all the literature away for cheap. But what nobody notices is there's 25 people in the back room collecting full-time salaries to create all of this for 50 years in a row. Well, that's where the money is, okay?

It's the donations coming in to cover all the printing operations. That's where the money is. And Perry Green set up his own printing operation and is doing his own thing and collecting money through that.

Not through the sale of the literature necessarily, but the donations into the enterprise covers the salaries and it runs as a business, a nonprofit business, but it does pay salaries to the people working in the enterprise.

That's how message literature and message media is monetized. And for your conspiracy theorist out there who may or may not have caught my hands about what was happening in the organized crime scene in Arizona, now think about this.

So you have organized crime which is being very quickly eradicated in this time period. It was about the 70s or such. Look what's happening in religion after this. Look at the unbelievable amount of money that's flowing through religion.

Quite frankly, it's more than was flowing through the organized crime in some cases. And yet at the same time, it's safer. You move this direction, you create this pyramid scheme, you scam all these people.

And unless you, like Perry Green got caught and it was criminal, but in most cases, it's not. Because you can set all of this up legally and you can rob the people, blind, legally.

And here's the interesting part, if, I mean, if I'm not, but if I were to have been somebody who's a criminal mind who's thinking, oh my gosh, look at all the money I can make at this, you can do it safely and the people will willingly give you some money.

It'd be like organized crime, say they went into a bank and said, hey, we're gonna rob this. Oh, you don't have to rob us. We're just going to give you everything that's in the vault.

That's what's happening here. And when you take a step back and you think, this was all done in the name of religion, but this was not religion, what we're seeing here, this was not religion.

Yep, and, you know, the way a lot of them work, you know, this. you can think of it as a mission enterprise that they set up to publish the literature and distribute it. Usually it's their friends and family, you know, run the whole thing and are all getting rich out of it, right? Because they're all just taking big salaries out of it. Yeah, and you know, they print the books for about 50 a piece or whatever, right? And they're collecting vast sums of money from people to sponsor the creation of the literature. And that's where all the money comes. And Perry Green is a full gospel businessman can

also go around to the full gospel businessman enterprise. Hey, finance our mission efforts, full gospel businessman guys, give me, you know, let's have some money into it. And that's what's happening. Perry Green is fundraising all over the place. He's pouring all this money into it.

And he's taking a cut out of all of it, you know, for his own, you know, it's a lot of work managing all this big enterprise, right? He needs to cut obviously, right? Sure, right? I mean, that's, that's just how it works. Yeah. And so Perry Green is monetizing all of this.

Now, another thing I want to talk about John is, um, is Perry Green had another bit of unique message, uh, impact. And I want to talk specifically about the secret recordings of William Brandon. So there were a number of sermons that William Brandon preached where, and you can listen to him in the tapes, marriage into force is one of these sermons. He'll get to it and he'll say, now, this is just for my little church here. Don't let this tape out, you know, keep this tape private. Don't send this out. Keep all this private. This is not for the whole everybody. This is just

for a special case or something, right? There's a number of tapes like that. I'm sure you're aware of them too, John. You just, it's on the tape when you listen to him. Okay. How did those tapes get out to the broader world? It's a good question, isn't it? Again, Mr. Perry Green. Okay. So you've got a crazed following, right? Who are desperate for the words of the prophet and you have in your possession some of the secret tapes. Those will fetch a pretty good price. Well, if the cult thinks that's the rapturing faith could be on those tapes. All right. Perry Green monetize the secret

tapes too. Okay. And marriage into force is probably the most, I will say the most infamous, most reckless, dangerous one that Perry Green released. The reason that the message community today has the marriage into force sermon is because Perry Green released it to the public, John.

That's the sermon where, I mean, it is, it is the most horrendous of all horrendous message sermons, right? I mean, it's the one where he says, women were created by the devil to deceive men and it's the sermon that seemingly endorses polygamy. Okay. Now, how did it come to be that that's just that Perry Green released the marriage in divorce taped everything? Well, I've mentioned before a man named JT Parnell. You'll find JT Parnell mentioned on William Brandon's tape. JT Parnell was as a polygamist. He had an entire harem, John, of women. And he took him just about everywhere

he went. I mean, it was in it, it's very obvious he was a polygamist to most of the people around him because he had a harem of women, okay? And he set up after William Bramme died.

What is, to my knowledge, the oldest polygamist sect of the message? And it started, it really started in 1965, it started before William Bramme died. And he was from Kentucky and there's a number of other churches. Maybe we'll do a full episode on J.T. Parnell somewhere down the road. But there was a number of churches of his fellowship of persuasion that also adopted polygamy in Appalachia and the South, North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi.

And then there's some other polygamist churches, which I'm not sure affiliated with him, so I won't mention them here. But there was a number of polygamist churches, all of his persuasion. And as you come into, I want to say it was the early to mid-70s, John. Everybody starts noticing, hey, wait a minute, J.T. Parnell's polygamists. And they're like, man, you can't be doing that. And he gets thrown at, he gets ex-communicated from my sect, John.

He gets more or less ex-communicated from the Bramme tabernacle. And the Bramme tabernacle does it kind of publicly like your grandpa's like, J.T. Parnell is not allowed here no more. He's a polygamist. So there is some pushback from sects of the message that there's a polygamy going on. And ladies, you know, there are still polygamists in the Jeffersonville message community to this day, you know, and in other parts of the message community. This is not something that has died. It is still around. But anyways, J.T. Parnell starts getting all this pushback. And of course, you know, he's saying, now wait a minute, ladies and gentlemen,

I was there when the prophet said one buck and many doves and the people are like, what are you talking about, J.T. Parnell here? You're making all this up. This isn't true. The prophet never said we could have polygamy. And he's, yes, he did. But he don't have the tape, John. Who does he go to for the tape? Perry Green. He goes to Perry Green because Perry Green back then, this man is such a flip flopper. He was associated with all the polygamists back then too. Because as I mentioned, Sydney Jackson was a polygamist in him

and Sydney Jackson were also tight. And Perry Green was being tolerant of polygamy through all of that. And so the reason that the marriage and divorce tape is in circulation in the world today is because the leader of the first polygamist sect of the message asked Perry Green to release the tape. So he could use it as part of his bid to justify polygamy in the message. Ladies and gentlemen, don't tell me and you hear people today that say, oh, polygamy has nothing to do with that. You silly, silly people. That is the entire reason the tape is in circulation is because of polygamy. You know, and what do you do with

it, John? I mean, I just don't know what to do with some. I know a lot of people don't know the history of all this stuff. They weren't around with all this. out of this stuff happened, but this is the truth of how the marriage and divorce tape came out.

How Peregrine released it, and it was released on purpose as an effort to justify polygamy in the message. And you have to wonder, we've talked often about how there's dirt on other ministers. Well, if you consider what's happening in the polygamy sect, here is a man who's claiming William Brannum said this and I was there, I heard him say it, and he's being disavowed by the larger group of the message following.

Well, here's a man, Peregrine, who has the best dirt of all. Well, he actually did say it. Everybody who says that he didn't is a liar. He's holding on to this. So you have to wonder how that conversation played out.

If you guys don't increase my revenue, I'm going to release this recording and you're all going to look like fools because this Bozo, William Brannum actually did support polygamy. But before our listeners, I know, I know there's going to be people in Africa and different things like, oh, you guys, how do you know any of this?

Let me tell you how I know this. I informally, the associate pastor of the second message church that was ever in the world, okay? Our people were there when all of these things happened.

These people were in our churches when these things happened, okay, for goodness sakes. And John, you are from the first message church and your grandfather was the pastor of the first message church. We are from the very heart and the uppermost ears of the central leadership of the oldest sex of the message, okay?

That is how we know this stuff, okay? And for some, there's a lot of things, John, we can just say we are personally witnesses. We can personally vouch that these things are true. And I can say that for myself, you know, and besides, a lot of these things are on tape, too, if you want to go clung up the tapes.

But anyway, John, I mean, there are so many dark secrets in the message and the message is just cut up into so many sex that don't talk to each other. Like a lot of this stuff is just, they don't have an awareness, right?

They just don't have awareness of why all this stuff happens. So anyways, that's why the marriage and divorce tape is out there. And that's not the only secret message tape that Perry Green released, John.

Perry Green is also the guy who released off the original version of the seven seals tape. You know how the seven seals, you know, ends at a certain spot and it says it. And then William Brown is recording the rest in a hotel room.

Who let out the original tape, John? That was unedited and forced them on. Perry Green, Perry Green's the guy, I mean, John, what you could do with that. You have the secret recording of William Brandon preaching the original ending of the sermon on the seven seals.

Could the rapturing faith be in there, John? Could that be in there? I mean, think of Perry Green made so much out of this stuff, John. I mean, and he just, he monetized all this stuff.

And besides that, I mean, he was selling, I mean, he would sell William, Brandon Browlex or give William, Brandon Browlex. Looks away and he did this like it it seemed like he all wait whenever he ran out of some William randoms clothes to cut up and sell off as or give away his prayer cloths or whatever draw suddenly he would find another bag of William Brannems clothes in the attic. Oh, hey guys look I found this clothes bag of clothes of William Brannems clothes that I forgot I even had. Oh wow look we've got more holy relics to go on like he had this unending supply of relics and and this is another funny story John.

So after after the copyright war starts and Billy Paul and Perry Green break up. Billy Paul starts to announce remember hey we've run out of prayer cloths this happened in I want to say the early 90s we've we've gave an out the last of the prayer cloths that William Brannem prayed over and Billy Pauls and we don't have any more William Brannem's prayer cloths anymore they're all finally used up well John just a couple months later Perry Green comes up ladies and gentlemen I have found the bag in my attic.

And did he really I mean come on I mean it is so obvious the stuff that he was doing to do people you know and and that was again a one up on Billy Paul in the tabernacle after they started to have their fallen out and he just did stuff like this on and on and on John I mean it's it's unbelievable it's unbelievable stuff and he got away with it.

It really is unbelievable man you know there are people in the message who are aware of the broader Christian community and they see things like Bethel I think it's Bethel church the one that was putting gold dust into the fans and watching it blow and oh my gosh there's gold dust falling from heaven it's God is blessing our church or angel felt there's all kinds of these weird things that they're doing and message people who are aware of the broader community say I can see right through that that's all fake that show anybody who has a

any common sense would know that that's they're just towing with the people's heads well take the flip side of that everybody who's in these big NAR churches is aware of this nonsense that went on the message why didn't they see through that man that was such a gimmick it's like John Goodman the Bible salesman man they're just wrapping the people blind and they're willingly being robbed it's so funny because you know by the time you get into the 80s John I mean they're down to cutting up William Brannem's underwear for prayer cloths I mean it's got that desperate

and of course then they finally run out of prayer cloths you know even his underwear gives out eventually got a mercy but even his underwear gives out eventually okay so I'm gonna open up to everybody and embarrass myself publicly all embarrass myself I've mentioned that I wore a prayer cloth that my parents kept hiding it on me it may or may not have been the underwear version oh goodness John and so after the underwear supply goes out there's no more prayer cloths like they reach the bottom of the barrel on William Brannem's prayer cloths yeah in Perry Green it's mysteriously fine

a whole set of William Brennan's clothes in his attic to cut up and make new prayer gloves. Yeah. But let's stop off here, John. I mean, this is a pretty good stopping point. I think we got to talk about the copyright war, so I think we've got to do one more one more one more episode on this at least because everything we've talked about so far, John, was all happening while Perry Green and all this was in the main sect. Like we haven't really got out of the main sect times here. It's when the copyright war start that these guys really

break away from the main sect and but I do think we've set the table. It was these lawsuits and Perry Green starting to rob the other senior leaders of the main sect that set up the bad blood, which then instigated them to start the copyright war because I think it is very fair and this is how I look at it. The copyright war that follows is them finally deciding, all right, Perry Green, you have you have robbed us enough. You have you've got enough out of us. Now we're kicking you to the curb and we're gonna do to you what you've been doing to us.

It was almost payback, John. It really was. I mean, I think it's very fair to characterize the copyright wars as they started. They were specifically targeting Perry Green to begin with. It was payback for all of the dirty stuff Perry Green had did to them. I agree. We could probably we could probably talk for three or four more episodes on just Perry Green. There's so much here and when you consider the broad scope of what all this covers, the message and the religion is only just one little tiny small piece of this puzzle. There's so much more but let's

cut it off here and we'll see how how much further we can go with it and copyright wars. That's a good starting point. I remember when all that was playing out and I have a little bit of family history on the you know my grandfather's house on the inside. We're I'm hearing play by play what my grandfather's saying about this and there's a lot there and I don't I don't think people really realize what all was going on behind the scenes. So I'm back next time we'll talk about the copyright wars. Yeah we'll cut it off there.

Well if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org and Christian Gospel Church.org. For more about the history of William-Brandom and the healing revivals you can read come out of her my people and for more about the dark side of the new Apostolic Reformation you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian identity to the NAR. Both available on Amazon, Kindle and Audible.

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