Seven Mountains, One Lie: The N.A.R.’s False Kingdom Agenda

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my co-host and friend, Jed Hartley, son of a prophet and former member of the International House of Prayer. Jed, it's good to be back and to talk all things problematic in the world. We're stepping a little bit beyond High Hop K.C. and now we're talking about more the New Apostolic Reformation flavor of Christianity. And I guess I should air quote Christianity

because it really gets away from Christianity when you think about what we're about to talk about. But as Pentecostalism was transitioning into becoming the Laterane Movement, there's this song that came to mind when you and I were discussing what we're talking about. And I can't remember the the person who sang it or the songwriter, but it's basically this world is not my home I'm just passing through. We sang it in many of the churches that we grew up in, some of the old timers did. But there was this clear transition because as the fears of

World War III started happening, everybody in the fundamentalist and Pentecostal and even some of the mainstream churches, they started this theme that this world is not my home. I'm just passing through. I'm going to be going to another kingdom, a far greater kingdom than this one. And this kingdom that exists will be gone. Many people subscribe to the rapture theology. You would be raptured before the coming and pending doom. Not all but some of the groups did. Our group did. We believed in a pre-tribulation rapture. But that theme was present. This world is not my home. This kingdom that we see is not mine. I'm

just passing through. And then somewhere along the way it began to shift. And I've still I've been researching trying to find and pinpoint exactly when that happened. And why it seems to coincide with the civil rights movement ironically. Because ministers in the lettering movement started proclaiming that we need to fix things right here and now. We need to step in. We need to involve ourselves in the government. There were ministers who were trying to involve themselves into the entertainment industry, especially the movie industry.

up just hating the the I love Lucy show and not knowing why man because in Branemism and Laterane that was the one that was most strongly condemned and if you think about it really yes and if you think about it you have two people of not the same race who were in a sitcom together so obviously they're going to harshly condemn this right and I go back through all of the different things that were taught it all seems to be in some way shape or form related to the politics of the era and those politics have shifted and

changed in today's world we have new politics and new the greatest sins I'm not going to name them will have people send me hate mail but there are there are sins that are mentioned today in today's political Christianity that weren't mentioned back then because they weren't the primary focus and the ones mentioned back in the 50s and 60s aren't the ones that they condemned today because now many people have adopted those in there they're no longer sins which is right resting but anyway we're talking about Dominionism and I have a lot to say because I grew up in this weird stagnant limbo we were in a

state of limbo of the 50s and 60s so I was in the world as not my home mind set and Paul Cain and others who developed all of this nonsense from Branemism they kind of evolved into this world is our home by Golly we're going to take Dominion over it we're going to bring the bring the wrath of our church against the world and you grew up in that world so I'm very interested to get into this yeah it was funny when you were talking about the this is not my world and I'm just passing through you know obviously you and I have talked

about the dangers of of preparing and planning and orienting your life life around the end of the world and how that can be obviously very problematic of being like not taking serious the time that you have on earth today but as you're talking about it I was also like well I don't I don't mind and I resonate more with some of that mentality now let's take out the anti-mapocalyptic mentality that's fused along to it where I'm just waiting for the rapture but this idea of like what matters in life is this sort of supernatural that it's

the kingdom in heaven and it's like for me that mentality would be like my job here on earth is to love well and do well unto others so that I can store up treasures in heaven or whatever but this this idea that like anti-materialistic anti-like wealth accumulation on earth and and it's sort of just this like like the old stoics very of like refusing the temptations and pleasures of the world because there is the greater supernatural significance of the great beyond and what will happen after.

We pass away and just like the things of the earth don't matter as much. Like I resonate with some of those, some virtues in there, I'm like, oh, okay, like that actually hits a positive association with me and then when you were talking, I was like, oh, it's because, yeah, because it flipped.

It was, that was not the world that I grew up in. Of course, we were still worried about the end times and about Jesus coming back, but it's like let us grab everything that we can before.

It was very materialistic. It's very growing in power, growing in dominion, growing in authority within the world that you're in. Like we talked about it in our last session of the like whole Seven Mountains mandate, which we referenced it before, but like specifically there's this idea that there are seven spheres of influence and this is talked about in several different ways, but sometimes they're called mountains, sometimes they're called mull hills, sometimes they're called spheres.

We as Christians need to take dominion and take domain over those. And I think it ludes like, of course this is something that has happened in like the 1960s or 1950s, 1940s and on like started growing, but in conjunction with the civil rights movement, I totally could see how it got reignited.

I mean, it also is just a lot of American Christianity since the beginning of like the pioneer days. Like the manifest destiny, the idea that like, this is the land that God has given us and we shall take it and conquer the wild.

Despite there being native populations already living in some of some of these territories and despite, you know, like which excuse things like the Trail of Tears and some horrific atrocities that happened, I think that this has been an undercurrent of American Christianity since, you know, even before America was the United States of America, this has been a big theme and I think that we're seeing a huge resurgence of this being like, we're not called to be passive, you know, individuals who are waiting for the Lord to return, we are called to be active pioneers or active soldiers and you use a lot of militaristic language.

Like, yeah, when you talk about the song that you listen to growing up, the one that I listen to, and two growing up was, of course, I may never march in the infantry right in a cavalry shoot the artillery.

I may never something to something, but I'm in the Lord's Army, you know, like the militaristic sort of like children songs that we did that were a part of like Christian dominionism that's, you know, you don't really think as all that problematic, but then now that we're seeing it, I think it really is becoming quite problematic of where it's like, well, yeah, and that's where I think that we just need to start talking about like, what is dominionism actually?

What does it mean to take dominion in the United States in these spheres of influence? It's so funny listening to Utah and Bob Scott talk and others who I'm in contact with because you'll say something and it will just explode a million thoughts in my head.

So what you grew up in was Brannemism 2.0, even though there are things like this that are drastically different, the place of the kingdom where the kingdom is, that's kind of a big difference if you think about it, but my grandfather after William Brannem died in my grandfather seized control of the tabernacle.

Weird history there that Charles and I go through, but when my grandfather took over control, he created it in such a way, the services that it became much like a wax museum. The people who returned to the tabernacle, you saw a bunch of people in the pews and they were singing, praising God, whatever, but the structure of the service which was very, very set in stone, was exactly what William Brannem had.

Right down to the songs they sang and I mean it was statically a repeat of what Brannem had in that church for years and years until my grandfather died. And every single Sunday, even whenever I was somewhat too young to remember, I'm told they still did, they sang that exact song, I'm in the Lord's Army.

And there are others out when I was talking to Brantley, he was going through some of the things that he did and sang and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me, man, they really recreated Brannemism, but they didn't recreate the kingdom.

And when I started working with Brantley before you and I spun this off, I had been deep into my research with, I may have published it before Brantley, I can't remember, but I had been deep into my research for my Christian identity book.

I had discovered that basically this entire thing came from Christian identity and what is Christian identity? I had to even learn that, I had no idea, I just, when I hear that term, I think of the red necks wearing the rebel flags with their guns, you know, carrying downtown, all the weird stuff that goes with it, but it's much deeper than that.

say it's deeply rooted in to be an American part of this is it's Christian nationalism. So there's this Christian nationalism aspect to it. But even deeper than that, the history of the movements influence, the Christian identities influence on Pentecostalism, Laterane, Charismania, and beyond, it's astounding. And the moment in which I had never heard of the Seven Mountains, and I heard somebody just use that term, I started looking to, I'm thinking, you got to be kidding me, man.

This is a complete repeat of what happened in the 40s, what happened again in the 60s. And I started just documenting that. And we spun off another series with John McKinnon, where we're talking about weaponized religion. And in the early years as the clan was kind of falling into disarray, there was this movement that developed called the Supreme Kingdom. And think of the similarities between this and the Seven Mountains, they wanted to fight against the government because the government was allowing desegregation of school systems and was not permitting them to keep black and white children separate. And they were fighting against the Catholics. They did not

like the Catholics, the Jews, or mixed races. So they rose in opposition to the government, also started rising up against the school systems. And one of their first initiatives was to go through and fire a bunch of teachers in Georgia. So they're taking over the mountains of government over the mountains of education. They then tried to enter the film industry because the film industry was basically taking everything that the clan stood against and making it appear to be more common, which is exactly the argument being made by the NAR. So the clan started creating film companies.

And they started producing propaganda films. And they played these all throughout the churches. So the birth of a nation is one that actually sparked the clan. But after that, the clan themselves started producing videos. And they were playing these videos in churches. So you've got the mountains of entertainment, the mountains of family. They were having picnics. You had the mountains of government. Basically everything that is in the NAR Seven Mountain mandate, they were doing back. That started probably the late 1920s. But then it became really focused, hyper-focused, after the Scopes Monkey Trial. And I document some of that history.

They really got into the education sphere. But what happened was, I can't remember the guy's name, but the main ally that they had in Washington, when he died, was a Christian identity religious figure, who's tied very closely to Brannemism and everything Brannem stood for, tied very closely to the fuller theological seminary.

They started holding these big conventions, talking about how Christian fundamentalism needed to fight the education system. And that went nationwide. They're holding all of these conferences and groups. Anyway, this developed into this weird history.

And once I discovered this, and at the same time, I'm researching IHOP KC. I'm starting to see elements of that transition through Brannemism. Brannem didn't invent this. It was before him. Through Brannemism into IHOP KC.

And suddenly, my mind was blown. Like, how did this survive? And how does nobody recognize that this history is just repeating itself over and over again? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's where it starts becoming a little eerie, too, of when you see iterations of what it's looked like in the past and clear arms and extensions of the KKK and of very xenophobic and racist ideologies that were spread.

I know that when I talk about the Seven Mountains mandate and all of this, in the past, I've raised red flags about it when I was still halfway in or even fully involved in the Y-Wam and the Bethel and IHOP communities.

And people would downplay the danger of it. They would downplay that it's not something that is a danger to other. It's more just like, we want to make sure that we are properly represented in all of these areas of society.

And I think that this is a really good distinction. There's a huge difference between representation and dominion. And it is very explicitly clear that this group and this movement is for the latter, not the former.

It's not about representation of Christian ideology is properly represented in media and all these different things. Representation is great. You want to know that people who are similar to me, who think like me are in government so that they're thinking about me.

I totally understand this idea of wanting to have your government, your entertainment industry, your religion, the media, education, all kind of represent and accept you and your political, religious, racial opinion and identity. That makes sense.

Dominion is that you want your ideology to be the only thing that's represented. It's not, it's exclusive representation, and it makes it impossible for other individuals who are Catholic, or who are Jewish, or God forbid believe our Muslim, then for other individuals who are a part of different traditions to also be represented in these communities is like, that's the problem. And so when you see integration happening, you see this outpouring of dominionism, because what is happening? Oh, people of different racial groups are suddenly being represented in education that was previously exclusively only for white Christian Anglo-Saxon Protestants. And I think that that's happening now too, is there's

a lot of like, maybe it isn't as explicitly like racially motivated. Well, I say that maybe it's not, I personally like, I don't know, if you spend any time on Twitter and you read a lot of like the Christian dominionist on Twitter, like maybe we should just start believing them. This is something that like talking to other individuals where it's like, no, it's not racially motivated, it's not racist, it's not this. Maybe we should just believe the people who are speaking on Twitter and like, they're not just joking around. Like, I teach a lot of young

middle school students and I do tutoring and stuff like that. And there is a, even in, I live in California, there is a definitive shift towards like real sexism and xenophobia in young adult males right now. And they are kind of champion and accolades some of the stuff that they're finding on Twitter and just on social media in general that is like really painting villains of everyone who is not within the domain of their kind of religion. And it's funny because that looks differently. Like, you'll have different versions of dominionism based on like the identity of the individual. Obviously, the one that we've been most familiar with is the sort of

Pentecostal white Pentecostal seeds of dominionism. But like, so internationally, this is happening in other places, like these same new apostolic reformation and latter-ranked beliefs and movements are happening all over the globe. And in different places, it'll be, you know, the taking dominion, it doesn't, it doesn't have to look the same every single time. It can be a different people group who is kind of like taking over that sort of like religious nationalism, and you see the same.

It's, I think we've, I've mentioned before the like cult franchise and how the latter reign is really just like it, it gave the blue print of how to create your own cult in your own city and with your own sort of take a few of their belief systems, replace them with yours, you know, have a little bit of that, a little bit of this, use Christianity as the like backbone of it, but as you said at the very beginning of this, like is it even Christianity anymore?

Not really, it's just like this is, this is the cult franchise and it's happening in the United States, it's happening internationally as well. There's like specific, I remember talking with someone who was a German journalist and she was asking me questions about Bill Johnson and she was asking me about Pop Jones and who was it?

There was one other person who had gone out to Germany, I can't remember who it was. It might have been Paul Kane, but she was asking me, she was like there is this sort of Christian nationalism that is like reigniting in Germany and its roots are, and she started mentioning the people that I know and I'm familiar with, like she was like, oh, we've heard tell of like Bob Jones here in Germany and it's really weird.

Oh, I think Brannum himself, might have even traveled to Germany and asked questions about, she was asking questions. I think it was, maybe even it was about Brannum, but this sort of latter-rated movement was like, is popping up in other places in the world and it all has this sort of militaristic, dominionistic let's take, let's not get representation in all seven spheres of society.

Let's take control of all seven spheres of society. Yeah, it was Brannum and it was Paul Kane. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, and it was shocking to me that she also knew who Bob Jones was.

And because he's this poed on profit of the hills who came from North Carolina and was kind of crazy and didn't have this sort of international presence, I would think. And I don't even know if he traveled to Germany or not, but she's like tell me more about, yeah, Brannum, Paul Kane, Bob Jones, she had heard of my dad and all of this, and I was just like, it's crazy that it's spreading.

So it makes sense when you think of it in that sort of cult frame. franchise thing of like, if you have a people group who is wanting to take dominion over their sort of society and they're feeling the like invading forces of other external sort of individuals, the sort of xenophobic mentality of like, I don't want other people who look different and act different and believe different than me.

And I want to make sure that my group is the only group that gets to say on what happens in my world, the formula that was cooked up by Brannum and others, obviously he wasn't the only one who did it of the whole laterane movement, provides a pretty, pretty nice formula to take what is the dominant Western religion and retool it to be something that is used to gain dominion and control over your world.

And like, they're not being subtle about it. I don't know why this isn't talked about more, but like Bill Johnson and Lance Wal now wrote a book that was literally titled Invading Babylon, The Seven Mountain Mandate.

And it's not just, you know, it's not just like a goal, it's a mandate. It's like God has given this as a command to us that we must invade Babylon. And the word Babylon was used in very, very loaded ways to speak about secular women or you know, like, or the way that I have heard the term Babylon used to like be really prejudicial against different individuals.

So you know, it's not even being subtle, it's not like, hmm, we're going to, it's not like the Catholic mission where it's like, let's go establish a presence in all across the world, but we're going to like do it with hospitals and you know, we're going to have like schools and hospitals that we create all across the world.

It's like, no, let's let it, we're going to invade and we're going to like culturally take dominion over these spheres. And like, I don't think that it wouldn't be, I think that it could easily turn to actual violence.

If, I mean, if that's what, if that's what happened, that would not be, it would not be crazy if to look back and be like, oh yeah, yeah, they were stirring up actual like warmongering rhetoric.

I don't know why that's not talked about more. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brandham Historical Research's website, William-Brandham.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen McCummery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-Brandham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. Whenever I was in the Brandham call, if I was an oddity, because I am one of the people who read my Bible, and I read it often and frequently, and not just like some people do,

you've seen these programs where read a Bible passage each day, and you can read the Bible in so many days. I didn't do that. They're books, man. I read them like books. Like if I went to a library and checked out a book, I would read it like this. So I knew the Bible, however, through the mind control, it made it difficult because there were certain things that when I would read it, my head would just glaze over and I would totally miss that I'm living in something that this passage is actually condemning.

So I just kind of, through the mind control, I missed a lot of things. But then after I left and we started attending Christian churches, I found myself still being an oddity because I read my Bible.

And I was a little surprised to learn just how few Christians actually read the thing. And you know, it was mind-boggling for me if you're a Christian, and this is your worldview, and this is the book that has the road map to the kingdom, why are you not reading the book with the road map, right?

But then I became even more surprised once I realized what was built on top of Buddhism, this whole kingdom theology, as soon as I understood what it was and why it existed and how Brannum played a role in creating it through Christian identity, of course.

I was even more surprised because instantly, whenever I came across the seven-mounted mandate and dominionism, I've talked about the kingdom now, and I got into a little bit of a debate and some heat because of John Wimbler's the kingdom versus the kingdom now theology.

See in my head, whenever I see this, they're both so far off of the base of what the Bible is talking about, I've put them into the same bucket. So even though, yes, they are slightly different, they're still the same kind of thing.

You're taking the kingdom and you're moving it to a different place. It's not what the Bible says. And as I'm reading through some of the theology, Like you said, Bill Johnson, some of the others, my head instantly goes to all these Bible passages that I remember.

What is it? In first John, there's a passage that Jesus says, my kingdom's not of this world. If it were, my servants would die fighting for me. And you've got the biggest scene of all where Satan takes Jesus up on the mountain and the great temptation.

And he says, look at all these kingdoms of the world. And Jesus said, you can have it. It's not mine. Mine's a different kingdom than this Satan. And I mean, I could go on and on.

There are passages in Luke where it says that the kingdom of God is within you. It's not of this place. And I mean, you can go on and on and on. Every description of the kingdom is not what we have today.

But that's what these leaders were proclaiming. And at the same time, as I'm starting to research and understand what Christian identity was and how destructive it was. And dangerous it was. And militant it was.

This is what created the Aryan nations and these neo-Nazi groups. This is the same theology that was ironically prevalent during Latter-Rain and some of the Latter-Rain Ministries. But then kind of went underground in the 60s and came out in all kinds of domestic terrorism and different organizations.

But they were teaching that the enemy was rising up to take over the United States. We need to arm ourselves. We need to fight it. And that enemy is Babylon. It was called Mystery Babylon.

And so the moment I heard, I can't remember exactly who it was. I think it was Bill Johnson, but it was one of these guys. They're teaching their dominionism theology and they get into the Mystery Babylon.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, man, were they listening to the neo-Nazi or these other groups? I don't know. But as I'm thinking through it, like you said, there is a destructive theology in the hands of very destructive men.

Many of which are cults. And if I apply what happened to me in Brannemism, Brannemism wasn't physically militant. Like we didn't carry, well, some groups did, but in the main sec we didn't carry the weapons and we didn't do all the weird nonsense.

But I was manipulated and programmed such that when I would read a Bible passage, the very thing that is condemning everything that I'm in in this religion, my mind is glazed over and I just can't, like I can't see it.

It's like it's unclear to me. Think of the groups now that are teaching this dominion theology and that's their focus. The government is our focus, the government of today, the foreign nations. And as I'm doing that research, I'm also researching the shift between Brannemism to IHOP KC through Paul Cain and others.

When Brannem was in Germany, he was touring ironically with a homosexual group of men, which is another story for another day, even though he taught against homosexuality. One of the men was the German Baron Frere von Blumberg, the adopted cousin of Werner von Blumberg, who was Hitler's Minister of Defense.

This is a significant character. He was also a director in Bob Jones University, so he's deeply tied to fundamentalism. At the same time, he is the German Baron in Bob Jones. He is also one of the international directors of the Fellowship International, before it became named the Fellowship. And we've heard that we've talked some, I think, about the National Prayer Breakfast and how they're influencing politicians in Washington.

What we haven't talked about is that many people mistake this for an American agenda, and it isn't. Werner von Blumberg, well, Frere T. von Blumberg, his mission was to establish these similar prayer breakfasts with other national governments worldwide.

So much so that the CIA got involved trying to figure out what is this, is this Christianity. And so he, who is sponsoring all these laterane guys and their revivals and paying for it, and setting up prayer breakfasts in other countries, they finally honed in on him specifically, because here's a man who's in this fundamentalist religion, who, as he's traveling and conducting all of these things, with people like Paul Kane, with people like William Brannum, he's having male escorts in and out of his hotels.

And the CIA is like, wait a minute, if this is a Christian man running Christian operations, why is he so openly homosexual? They all condemn it. So they started investigating him. I've even got some of that documentation on the website. And come to find out, they cornered him on that exactly and asked, is this a religious institution? He says, no.

This is not, this is not Christian. This is welcoming of all religions or something, that effect. So he's setting up these, I don't know what you call them, but their prayer breakfast, they're under the disguise of Christianity, but they're not Christianity.

And it's sole purpose, if you think about what that is, it's sole purpose is not just national dominionism in the United States. They're talking about a global purge of what exists worldwide. And these are the same group of men that are preaching the mystery Babylon theology, Christian identity, all of the negative things in the sixties that literally brought the race riots.

They're now doing it under covert operations and Christianity. And I think that it, so I'm sure that we're gonna get some kickback, or I could imagine maybe we won't, but kickback from our previous one where we were kind of talking about YWAM and how they were adopting some of the same language and styles and strategies of the hit or youth program.

And I think this is sort of the similar, look at where these things originate. And I think that there will be this sort of defense of, okay, it's not really like that. Like it's, you know, you're making, it's straw man sort of arguments of like this is the boogeyman put in Christian, YWAM, next to big boogeyman stuff

or the National Prayer Breakfast. And then having it a part of like Nazism is like, you know, feels very sensational. But I don't think, I think that what I'm trying to argue and what I agree with you with, and I don't know if this is exactly, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but like, I think the whole alarm that I'm trying to raise with this is that the rhetoric and the language and the history of that rhetoric and language is so dangerous, is so destructive.

And is it being always to use? Is everyone who is using this rhetoric wanting the extermination of people groups who don't fall in line with their ideology? No, not necessarily. Is it being used for that?

Explicitly yes. And I think that this is a big thing too with, you talk about like the, they're knowing what is being explicitly said and what is being said behind the scenes, like there are two different things.

So when you talk explicitly and use this sort of seven mountains rhetoric and this dominionist rhetoric of like, let's establish dominion in all of these arenas, like that's explicitly what's being said. Well, then behind the scenes there was, there are horrific, like I've seen a lot of the,

I have seen rehashing of some of the more horrific ideas that was like within Branism, like the Serpent Seed belief, the idea, some iteration that like, there is that demons and have put their seed into the world,

like the Serpent slept with, Eve, there's different theories and different threads of what it looks like, but basically like that cane and his descendants are that of demonic sort of like heritage. And I've seen, so there was this one individual who was in, he was associated with Bethel, and I'm not going to tell the whole story and I'm going to try to tell it in a way that some of, I don't get us in trouble with the censors, but there's just this really horrific story that people can look up about a man who just kind of went off that. He believed that his children had been infected by the

like demon serpent scene and it kind of crossed over with both sort of these serpent scene beliefs and the serpent. Yeah, yeah, where it's this sort of like there's an underground race of people who are controlling and, you know, Hillary Clinton, secretly a lizard person or something like that. I mean, people really are starting to believe these things and people are sharing these things and it's not violent until it is violent, you know, and this individual obviously dealt with mental illness and stuff, but he ended up killing both of his children because he became obsessed with this idea that they had been infected with this serpent DNA and he was

closely affiliated with Bethel and I know this because I, for a period of time, I was traveling with my dad and right after this had happened, this man's best friend was like staying with my dad and I and he was talking about some of the things that had happened and was dealing with alcoholism and was like losing his own family and stuff like he was in a real bad place and it was honestly quite scary living with this individual and because his best friend had just gone off the deep end and so I'm getting some of this and until this day, I don't know if there's many people

who have linked the violence that this individual committed to some of the rhetoric of like the laterane movement besides me because I was like, oh, hey, hang on, I see these two different things that when people are like, oh, he just went crazy, it's like, okay, yeah, but what beliefs did he go crazy about? What was the, you know, gateway into these sort of insane stuff and I'm not making the argument that everyone who believes these things will go insane and kill their children like That's obviously very intense, but I don't think that we, like I certainly did not realize how violent and dangerous

the rhetoric that I believed in was, and you can see it, the branching off of the latter-rain movement, you have the largest suicidal and human history with people's temple. Yeah, where they use a lot of the same rhetoric and stuff to get to a place where you have this huge suicide call.

And so, you know, to know how dangerous some, in proximity, a lot of these beliefs are, and then you see behind the scenes some of the dangerous abuse that was going on at the international house prayer, and just the way that sexual abuse was happening and was rampant within that world, you start being like, hey, maybe it isn't crazy to think that these really dangerous adjacent beliefs could cause some really dangerous actual violence.

And the one, another example of this would be, there was a documentary that came out, and I think it was 2013 or so, that's called God loves Uganda. Have you, do you know about this?

Okay, so there was this documentary about basically to give a broad summary, if followed sort of Christian missionaries in Uganda, along with like Christians in Uganda who were wanting to establish some really, well, the people in Uganda were trying to establish legislation against homosexual, like making homosexual activity in Uganda criminal and punishable in various different like extreme ways.

And so it was the sort of like, it was a secular documentary that was kind of raising a red flag, and it was very postured in position to be like, there are these Christian missionaries coming over, being anti, you know, being homophobic, anti LGBTQ in their rhetoric and saying, you know, homosexuality is a sin and preaching against the dangers of homosexuality.

And that was then being adopted into some more like violence. Okay, this is going to be criminalized, and there was going to be, there's a lot of concern of like, which hunt stuff of people, you know, accusing others of being gay when they aren't or, you know, not, and just the scare, like that's when the rubber hits the road of like, it is a belief system, and then suddenly it becomes a violent belief system, where now you have a state in force.

seeing the religious beliefs of a group of individuals to punish those who believe and have a different identity. What's crazy is that the missions group that they follow is from the International House of Prayer.

I know some of the kids, it was my age. It was the same dominion, I went to Dominion Christian School with some of these different young students. I could have very well been on this mission strip, but I wasn't.

But I still know that a friend of mine, Truman, was like, I remember him being in the movie and in the documentary. And I remember also, this is one of the first instances where people raised a lot of red flags about the International House of Prayer.

And I heard from the sort of inside defense. I heard how we kind of defended ourselves. Against this attack and or what was presumed to be attack. And it was like, basically, the whole thing was like, yes, we don't believe that homosexuality is sin.

We believe that you may not be able to enter into the kingdom of heaven if you are homosexual. But we are firmly against violence against these things. And this is just because it's not our fault, basically.

Like we are trying to spread the good news of Jesus. Like it's not our fault. Like we're against this bill that is coming up. And like on one end, like I get where we were coming from, where I remember John O'Hall wrote an opinion piece about this.

And he was like, we're painted as these, I hop is painted as these huge villains when it's like, this is not what we're trying to do. And it's like, but it kind of is.

Like that's kind of what is happening, right? And again, it's this sort of like the beliefs themselves

provide avenues for violence. And so we're bringing these beliefs. And sure, maybe if you ask most people in the mission's movement, whether or not they want to see this bill enacted and want to see people who are homosexual who'll be put in prison for life, they would say, no, oh, that's too extreme.

But like the rhetoric that they are packaging provides an avenue for it. And before people get up and arms about that, it's like, well, if you don't want militaristic action, do not have militaristic language.

Like it's pretty straightforward. Like if you want to say that's not what we're preaching, don't call it invasions. Don't call it like Lord's Army stuff. Don't call it, you know, don't have all of this very military- the language, Ronson, and the whole Joel's Army rhetoric, like I was raised being called a part of Joel's Army, the young students who went during, as a part of this mission group, were among the Joel's Army generation.

If you don't want to be accused of militaristic and violent action, then you cannot be propagating militaristic language. I don't know how we continue to play this sort of carousel game of having individuals being like, oh, that's not us, we're innocent, this is just, this is sort of my, and it's actually the left is not tolerant of, like, I can't believe they're not tolerant of our beliefs.

And it's like, yeah, they're not tolerant of militaristic language against it, like that there's no, you can't have those things. They don't exist, and that's a whole point of dominionism. Like, Christian dominionism in the United States is incompatible with secular democracy.

It's like fundamentally incompatible, and there's a lot of Christian dominionists who would agree with this, exactly what I'm saying, they would be like, yeah, he's right. So therefore, get rid of secular democracy, you know, the whole idea is that we need to establish a presence in the world in which we have dominion over all of these spheres of society.

That is inherently oppositional to the idea of like every voice ought to be represented in democracy, regardless of like religion, race, crene, nationality, like that people should be able to have a say on what their government is doing and how they are governed and what their society looks like that is proportional to, you know, the population of the democracy.

Like, that's just the inherent principle of democracy, and Christian dominionism is incompatible with it. And yet, we have probably a good portion of our senate and our house and our who are, you know, the, a lot of Trump's cabinet are in the new apostolic reformation veins who are like explicitly trying to establish this Christian dominionism.

And I don't, I frankly don't think it's talked about enough. I don't think that, I don't, people are like, ah, the media will hypersensationalize it and they will, you know, make it a bigger deal than it is.

I don't think are making a big enough deal of it quite frankly. I don't want to, I don't want to raise, you know, fear mongering about this, but I need, I think that people need to be like, Let's take it serious. Let's take serious the words that are being spoken when Bill Johnson and Lance Wal now say Let's invade Babylon and establish dominion over all seven spheres of society Let's take them seriously that let's believe that their intention is to invade all of these different spheres of society You know my mind is somewhat blown. I wish we'd had this conversation while I was writing my book as I was writing this book

Weaponized religion from Christian identity to the NAR. I Actually, I focused an entire chapter dedicated to the man who believed his children had serpents DNA Because I can tell you exactly where that came from and why and why he killed them and the whole it's a sad story What I didn't have was I did not know that that was connected to Bethel Which is that would have been fascinating for this book But everything that you have said if people knew the actual history of what this is and why it is I mean for one thing if people understood what they're preaching they wouldn't even want it

So what one of the notions is we need to conquer the entertainment industry because and I've had I had a lengthy conversation with a guy Who was going to have me on his podcast until like the very next week and I had a person on my podcast who in the past I think he was homosexual. I can't remember how it all was but anyway He he wasn't even talking about it like he he just mentioned I was at that time homosexual and I was in Who was it the guy Robert's lured and he was in Robert's lured in's church and he started talking about you know

Lirdons came out as you know cow as it a homosexual So he was he was talking about that Well the guy wouldn't let me on his podcast. He says you should have strongly condemned this man who was on your podcast like Sorry, I don't even want to be do anything with you but The politicized version of Christianity the reason why they want to conquer the entertainment industry is because Now entertainment is showing and portraying homosexuals in a common setting so they're in like sitcoms right and they say this is sin and we can't let sin come into our homes through the television and

The common person just eats it up But what about the murder mysteries? I love a good murder mystery that's sin. That's probably you know I'll probably get kicked back for saying this but that's a little bit worse, right?

You're actually you're actually killing somebody and the irony is they have so hypercharged This issue and politicized it that people actually think the homosexuality's worse than the murder But they're showing the same thing. So am I allowing murder in my home?

Am I allowing to commonplace murder? No If they were to adopt everything that they're pushing where the preachers can dictate what's on the television screens and They start what if some guy gets on a rampant Preaching spree against the murder mysteries. Well now you take off a whole genre of television, right?

And you can go right down the line. There's all kinds of different Sins that you can take off it every villain is a sinner. So you take villains out We've got no fruit. You've got no balance between the good and evil in the show and there's no Suspense man. It's like well, do you guys even know what this would be like if you adopted this?

but The interesting part is like like you said the serpents DNA people don't realize where this came from so earlier I mentioned that there was a Christian identity figure who was deeply tied to Branemism and tied all of this His name was Gerald Burton Winrod Okay, I go through this in the book He was one of the most notorious Christian identity figures He went to Germany had counsel with Hitler. I think it was Hitler But he comes back he goes to Germany a poor man He comes back and he suddenly got more money than he knows what to do with

Instantly just from his trip to Germany and there's a lot of questions about what happened there He got so much money that he was funded and he started holding these big Conventions, he's Christian identity conventions and in the conventions he was selling this Racious racist anti-Semitic book called the protocols of the learned elders of Zion The number one Jewish propaganda book in world history this guy was peddling this and Charles Fuller the head of the Fuller Theological Seminary was his partner in this and they were All over the nation right Well Amy Simple MacPherson's church, which is one of the big ones in Pentecostalism

Yeah, the Sunday after the night of the broken glass in Germany when all of the Jewish Homes businesses everything was rated And Nazis were being called out in the United States that Sunday she brings this guy into her pulpit This guy is nicknamed the Kansas Hitler the J. Hawk Nazi Yeah, and they apparently I don't have their curriculum so I can't say with certainty But if you look at what happened next it's very clear that life Bible college started teaching the ideas Because you have very very notorious Christian identity figures coming out of this and they start in

Invading American Christianity for everything from Pentecostalist to Baptist and beyond Gordon Lindsay who was William Bram's campaign manager. He founded Christ for the nations He started holding he he was the keynote speaker and multiple of these racist conventions Christian identity conventions Chuck Smith came out of life Bible college. I mean there there's so many people that come out of this, and you can't say that each one continued and went rogue, but there were some very notorious ones like Wesley Swift, who came out of Lifebible College.

And he's working to also spread the mystery Babylon theology. He's getting very militant. They actually took up arms in California under him. So all of this is tied to the same thing. Sam starts teaching Wesley Swift's Christian identity doctrine, Serpent Seed.

He rebranded it. And then what happened is when the government stepped in and they started rising in opposition to all of the people who were fighting against civil rights, this all went underground. And Branham started teaching that it wasn't a blood lineage, even though Eve made it with the serpent to produce cane.

He started teaching that it became over time a spiritual lineage. And so people were publicly teaching that it was a spiritual serpent seed. While behind the scenes, Branham is telling, I can't remember who it's on my website, but he's telling people that the child that was birth between the sexual union between Eve and the serpent was black as the Ace of Spades.

And he gives the lineage of the history of that bloodline. He traces it through the dark skin people in Africa. So it is a very racist, racist doctrine. Yeah. But what happened was as it became spiritualized, people couldn't put into words, what does that mean?

If it started out as a actual blood union, and then later in history, world history became a spiritual thing, how does that transition? And there was no word for it, because common people didn't understand DNA.

Once they began to understand DNA, they started, oh, it's the serpent's DNA. That's how this has survived throughout this time. And that's literally what led to the QAnon nonsense. There's this movement called QVangelicals that were teaching QAnon in evangelical settings.

I mean, this is a big, big deal. I document it through the book. It's way more than I can talk about here. But everything that we're talking about, this dominion, this control, none of it matches the Bible.

If you just simply go back and go to Google, go to like, Biblegateway.com, do a search for Kingdom. And read everything that it says, it actually condemns these preachers for what they're saying.

And then you read through it and you're like, wait a minute, they have the Bible. They're preaching from it. They have to know that what they're preaching is actually anti-biblical. So then it raises for me the real question.

If every single minister who's teaching this like Bill Johnson, they have the same access to the same tools that I have, they're reading the same Bible I have. And they can read that what they're preaching is actually against what the Bible is saying.

The question in my mind is, are they even Christian? And I can't answer that, but I can tell you what it looks like. Well, the problem, John, is that you are not being led by the Holy Spirit and they're being led by the Holy Spirit, so that's the issue.

Because the Bible, you know, once you have the Holy Spirit telling you what it means, then I've thought about this many different times. So like, and I try to bring this up to individuals who are, you know, especially in the charismatic world, where I'm like, you know, if you just read the Bible, a lot of your core beliefs are not even in there.

I mean, they're in there and so far as like people have found ways to, like the rapture is good example of this of, you know, there's talk in some of the revelations and John, I can't remember what passage, but like there will be two people in the field and one will be gone or something.

And it, you know, a straightforward reading of that is like a poetic description of like an apocalyptic sort of war or not even apocalyptic, which is this sort of, you know, people suddenly, it happening sudden and they're being a very large sweeping of, you know, how war often does is like it just kind of cascades and quickly, like that's, that's the most obvious sort of literal reading of it, but then people have built that into this entire, very specific view of like dispensationalism and rapture, you know, tribulation stuff.

And it's like, if you gave ChachyBT, you know, infinite amount of time to, or some, let's just say some AI was reading this and deriving even in conjunction with non-canonical early texts. And it's like, read all of this about what do you think that these could be?

And it was like not using the interpretation of like common contemporary scholars. Would it come up with that? And it's like, no, of course not. And it would never derive that sort of like, here's the logical reading of what is explicitly written in the text, even if it had some like, you know, context and translations and all this sort of stuff, because that's just, it's not what's in the text, it's not there.

It's providing basically, the Bible is just used and Christian religion is used as a framework to then adopt all of these beliefs that are, and this goes back to our boundaries conversation, the invisible boundaries conversation that we had several weeks ago, where it's just, when you put your finger on it, it suddenly disappears.

appears and becomes something different. And it's all of these different, you know, you can never have accountability in the same thing with the like God loves you, gone to documentary, John O'Hall can be like, no, this wasn't us, this isn't what we preached because like that's not what we explicitly said.

And it's like nowhere is it ever explicitly said anything because it all is so loose. And so, you know, guided by the Holy Spirit, where, you know, it gives this sort of carte blanche to maneuver as long as you have the like social and political and religious authority to be one of the individuals who is, is has the capacity to hear the Holy Spirit and that you are one of the voices of the Holy Spirit.

Which of course then leads to prophets. And you're like, oh, okay, it starts coming together. It starts making a lot more sense when you're like, oh, I see how this really is just a system that gives a group of two or three or maybe just one individual's the ability to create their own little mini cults with total conviction and bring a lot of people in and be prophets who say, this is what I saw, thus say of the Lord within their own little domain and have their own little sandcastle of people who are worshiping, you know, the venerant,

like the altar which is spoiler, you know, like, like I was talking with someone the other day about how I was like sacrifice and me and my family were very much sacrificed on the altar of my father's faith.

And spoiler alert is the altar was built onto the veneration of himself. Like it wasn't, it wasn't that I was even like, my dad was a monk and priest who like dedicated himself to the cloth and the furthering of the Christian religion.

It was just very much when he had whims and he had dreams and he liked this, then that was what the Lord was telling him. But then, you know, the secular panic of like, this thing is not okay, this thing is not okay, this movie's not okay, you know, I love Lucy is not okay for whatever reason, but then he washes mission impossible and he's like this is so much fun and despite it having all sorts of content that is problematic, he was like, no, this is great.

The Lord is actually speaking to me through mission impossible and it's just this weird sort of no, yeah, nebulous thing which leads to, this is my final thought with this whole Christian dominion as something, this whole campaign of establishing dominion and all these different spheres of society.

The idea is that you get and you get the idea and you get the idea a strong foothold where you become and your identity and your group becomes the individuals and you get the idea and you get the idea and you get who like completely take over and control the government and the media and all this sort of stuff.

Well, what happens next? This is my question, like, what is this utopia where the Christian individuals or the Christian Pentecostal evangelical, whatever, establish complete dominion over the United States? What does it look like? Spoiler alert, they all fight each other because that's exactly what happened in all of these cult communities. Like, we left these cult communities because it was abusive to the members of the cult. It wasn't because, you know, of what we saw was happening to other individuals. I mean, that's true, too. Like, I feel compassion for what's happening in Uganda and like the sort of cascading effect of like these beliefs and how it affects

other individuals. But fundamentally, I left Christian dominionism because it was a horrible place for me. You know, it because it didn't have space for even the individuals who it's supposed to be taking dominion for. And this was a hundred percent happen. Say we are living in some Christian nationalist utopic world where the Christian nationals have all taken authority and domain over the United States. Well, guess what? The group of individuals who believe that it is, you know, illegal or not illegal sinful to have stringed instruments are going to start having fights with the groups who think it's this and that because that every time more domain or dominion

is exerted, more specific control is exerted because the idea is that they just want to have control over everyone. And you can't do that. Like, you will have infighting. You will have the sort of

conflict between churches and within the churches. And that's already what's happening. There is no utopia. They're even in there, even in their wildest dreams. Well, the irony of all of that is what would happen if they were to pull it off, which I don't think they ever will. But if they were and to join into this union where they're controlling the governments like they're wanting to do, where the apostles have real power over presidencies, et cetera, what it might spin off would be a Catholic reformation because what they set up is exactly what to cause the Protestant reformation, right? So they're going in this weird cycle where

now they've returned back to what the Catholics were doing. And think of all the similarities we have now between what Martin Luther left and what is in the New Apostolic Reformation. It's mind boggling, but that's another podcast for after days. So if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org.

From more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation. You can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.