Levi Larsen: The Missionary Who Brought Branham's Message to Norway - With Sissel Hoff - Our Stories

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my very special guest, Sissel Hoff, former member of the message from Norway. Sissel, it's good to have you on and to talk about your journey throughout the message and after the message. We briefly talked before I started recording and we have a few things in common and I think our listeners will be very excited to hear your story so maybe if you could just take a moment

and tell everybody a little bit about yourself. Sissel Hoff, I was before I was Sissel Larsenhoff and right now I'm living in Norway, a place called Sunnis. It's the southern part of Norway. I work with with a drug rehabilitation program that I'm leading and my family lives here and I have a burden. I feel it's from the Lord to help warn people who are in the message but also I see so many of my Norwegian friends and also my American friends because I lived there over 30 years that are just running after what they think is signs and miracles and

prophetic words and I feel like when I tell my story they listen a little more than just if it's theoretical. Yeah, it seems to me that the adults chasing miracles is like the children chasing rainbows. You can keep chasing as many times as you want but some people get caught up in it and they think that they have experienced something and maybe they did but in the end are they chasing after the correct thing? That's the question that always go back to because once I left the message and I started experiencing what other churches were

teaching and where they were grounded. They were more grounded in the gospel than in the miracles and while they really didn't discredit the miracles they said is your focus and is your attention on the right thing and that question was it kind of drove me to digging in a little bit deeper. Like you know I've told you before that my parents were saved in a tent revival in Norway through the assembly of God and it was a real conversion and my dad felt like he wanted to be full of time.

minister for the Lord and they traveled around Norway as an evangelist and then he felt called to be a missionary in Brazil and during that time Norway wasn't rich now it's a really rich country but then there wasn't enough they had two churches they're home churches supporting them and like a lot of people felt in those days they felt oh we'll just go to America and it's easy to save money in America so that's actually why we immigrated to America on the way to Brazil during this time we had a lot of experiences one which doesn't have to do with this but

we met a group of church of Christ in Godman and I they had recently come out of the Amish but they were so excited to meet us we became like the movie stars of their movement because nobody joins that church but the reason my parents joined it because they said they're going to pay for everything and send us out to the mission field but then when my dad found out he had to follow they had a thick book like this of rules and he found out that he thought okay that's okay we can follow it in America but once we get to Brazil we'll be on our own but then they

made a beer clear they're going to come an inspection tours and even the even the Indians in that hot region they had to grow beards and they had to sew exactly the same clothes so then my dad thought no he can't handle this but so on the way in his journey in the searching we moved a lot of times he met I think it was Bob Lambert in Florida which whom introduced him to the message.

So as I mentioned before we started recording that's one of the things that we ironically have just a little bit in common not personally for myself but my wife lived in an Amish community.

She wasn't Amish but she lived in the community and her family is the one who drove around to you know taking people into town and giving them rides and their vehicles but she became so acquainted with the Amish her family did that they asked her mother to start teaching in the school so my mother-in-law was an Amish school teacher and once the building grew filled with so many children it was more than she could handle so my wife at age I can't remember what it was an early age maybe 14 years old she started teaching and helping which violates a few laws outside of

the Amish community so this turned into kind of a big deal for them the end result is the United States government can't apply those laws for education inside the Amish community so it turned interesting but yeah she became somewhat famous in in the region and the Amish communities.

So when we got married, there was a whole busload of Amish people who came to our wedding at the Brannum Tabernacle. Like you said, they have a way that's different about them. I've got to meet many of them now after we're married.

And I can't imagine submitting to that lifestyle because there are much more rigid than it was in the message. But for us kids, it was just amazing. It was like way better than Disneyland because we were so famous, you know, because we were Norwegians and from the outside that every Sunday we would be invited to someone's house and they lived, of course, lived on the farm and had 13, 14, 15 kids and all that food that was the best time in my life during those years.

But because of all those rules, my dad decided he was going to continue traveling. And he met, I think it was Bob Lambert there which introduced him to the message. And my dad got so fascinated.

I don't think his foundation could not have been solid enough. I don't know. Or he had such longing for the supernatural. I'm not sure what it was. But he got totally connected with that.

We moved to Jeffersonville. We lived there for about two and a half years in the Brannum Tabernacle, 1962, 63 in part of 1964.

So, 62, 63, 64, that was right in the heart of whenever the seven seals were coming out. I was in there at all those meetings, yeah? Oh, wow. Yes, this was a big time.

In fact, I don't know how it is in Norway, but there are many splinter groups of the message that they will say that the only real message of William Brannum is from 63 to 65.

And they won't, they totally ignored the years before. So, everything that he said before in conflict, they totally discount it because that was before the message came out, John. But some of the, I was probably in awe too.

I remember when I shook hands with Brannum, I was so scared to shake his hand. Because what if he tells me what I'm thinking, it's like it's kind of scary when they have such a, like you say, a stage persona.

But a couple of the things, my dad got even more convinced being there because he had a friend, and you probably can have some input in this. But he had a young friend who came from Norway and he came there and he stayed with us.

We lived in Louisville and went to church in Jeffersonville. And he, we were sitting on the balcony one night and he was there to pray for his uncle. And to my, the best of my knowledge, Brannum did not personally know.

my dad. Maybe he had heard of him. Maybe he knew who he was. But the place was packed. It was so packed. And then he pointed him out on the balcony and he said, you young man up there. No, he had never met him from Norway. And you came here. I see you sitting with your hands in your head in your hands or somebody sitting. He says, you're here to pray for your uncle who has a terrible headache.

And he said details. And so my end was true. And I'm not sure if his uncle ever got healed, but he said he was going to get healed. But so my dad was so impressed with that. That was just amazing to him. So that kind of cemented it even more. And then another thing I remember, there was this old missionary couple from Africa. Their name was brother and sister Wade. Do you remember them at all? Nobody knows anybody knows them. But anyways, they were sitting. I was there at the meeting.

They were sitting in the front row. And he fell over as dead. And somebody took his pulse. They didn't find his pulse right away. So Brannum immediately declared him as dead. And then without doctors or anything. And then he prayed for him. And then he was declared risen from the dead. So this was a big deal. And I thought that is weird. I've thought it afterwards. Right then, I thought, wow, you know, so those were just a couple of impressions I had when I was there.

Yeah, I've actually I haven't been in the service. But in this area, they have had similar things happen where somebody will fall over. And you know, people fall from exhaustion to there's many reasons why people will fall. And it doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. And what happens is it's kind of odd because then rather than calling 911 or making sure that there's any kind of medical presence, they'll come and pronounce them dead right there. And then also pronounce them risen.

And to the audience is, oh, wow, that's cool. But if you really stop and think about, was he really dead? And the way that they check the pulse often is the same way that they do in the movies, which isn't really the correct way to check a pulse. Maybe the risk, but you've got to, you know, there's different ways you're supposed to do it. But I was there was an experience like that here where somebody allegedly was raised from the dead. And I had a person who was I was working with at the time who had left the message who actually is in the medical profession. And he said, John, every

single step of this is incorrect. There's no way to know was he even dead by the way that they they tested him. Yeah. But of course, people believed it all. And probably my parents did too.

And then during that time there, my dad was like, really, I think, really determined to get close to Branham. And so when everybody was moving to Tucson, he decided we were gonna move to Tucson, and that was the craziest thing.

We got there, and we got enrolled in school. This was the autumn of 64, and we lived there two weeks, and then my dad decided, no, and I don't know, I never knew what happened.

If he tried to get close to Branham, but Branham had kind of such an inner circle, you couldn't get close to him from an outsider, unless you were very unique, you know? And so I don't know what happened, but we ended up leaving.

And you know how thankful I am many times, when I heard that about that trailer park there in Tucson, I thought, wow, that could have been me. That could have been us, that I could have gotten totally stuck, because it seemed the outside, it seemed so great, right?

And I thought, thank you, Lord, I'm spared from all of that. And to the listeners who were unfamiliar with the trailer park experience, there was a miniature commune that was set up out, and it was Prescott, Arizona, I think it was.

After William Branham moved to Tucson, his, I guess you could cut, in biblical terms you'd call him, his scribes, his two men that followed him around, taking all of his recordings, they set up a compound, and horrific things were taking place in there.

And to some extent, based off of the timeline that we pieced together, William Branham had to have known some of it, but you can go on my website and you can search for Leo Mercer, his name that you can search for, and you can find out what was happening.

But anyway, this was a horrific thing. It is good that your family escaped. And interestingly, I'm piecing together the timeline in my head, and I'm fairly certain that your family would have moved into the Tabernacle group.

At the same time that my family was in William Branham's inner circle there, then after Branham moved to Tucson, not long after I know that my family also moved to Tucson, so they were in the inner circle there, so they would have been in the circle that you couldn't get through to get to him.

And things were happening that nobody is aware of. I've got also photographs on my website for people who don't know this, but one of the things Branham had in his big stack of rules, just like the Amish had, was you could not swim with the opposite sex.

And largely, most people in the message, I've been in message communities where they couldn't swim at all in a swimming pool. They just couldn't because of all of the ranting and railing against swimming pools.

Well, my family was there at William Branham's own swimming pool, and we have photographs of his swimming pool, and they had pool parties. And while he's got this stage persona, that which is somewhat like the Amish with all of the rules, he himself and his inner circle.

who weren't abiding by the same rules. Yeah. But anyways, we ended up moving back again to Pennsylvania to be with some other message people there. And during that time, my grandmother in Norway got really sick, and she had one desire that was to see my mother and us again.

So it ended up my mother and my brother and I, which is 15 months older than me, we moved back to Norway, and my dad remained there. And during that time, I know it was the 1960s before I found in his dead now, but I found in his thing.

And I think this was became his, what he lived by, a prophecy of Raymond Jackson. And it ended with, you know, my son, you are in a waiting season now. And again, my son, and you will set sail again.

And it was very specific. So he felt it was to him, and he got it printed up for him. You shall hear again the voice of the Lord, and thou shalt set by sail and go the way I have called thee, set the Lord.

And that became very, I think, guiding for him. So when we had lived in Norway a year, my mother, she had actually, she was a real evangelist. She has won many to the Lord during her life.

And she never liked the message. She always felt there was something very odd with it. But this was the first time, but she really believed she was to follow my dad, even though she felt, she had a lot of turmoil about it.

And then, but this was the first time, she said, I'm not moving back to America. She put her foot down finally. So my dad, he always loved my mom very much. So he wasn't talking about divorce or anything.

So he had to come to Norway, and he built a house. And after a few years, I think a lot because of Raymond Jackson's prophecy that he thought my job is to spread the message in Norway.

Well, that's incredible. I know that Raymond Jackson did this type of prophesying. I've been working with Charles and learning bits and piece of it. I'm also working with Chenle Ross, who was studying the Hobart Freeman cult.

And if you're unfamiliar with Hobart Freeman, he led his sect into this destructive world where they could not even go to a doctor, have medicine. Many, many people died. We just recently found and have not yet published, but he had been receiving Raymond Jackson's newsletters, which meant that he had to have also been at one of the conventions, I guess, where he met and got onto the newsletter subscriptions.

So there's a lot of connections there, but... the the fact that your family was a splinter group of a splinter group of the message. Interesting all the more. So I want to know more about what happened to your sect in Norway. Did you carry forward what you heard from William Brannem or from Raymond Jackson? When we left Norway, a lot of people knew us in the assembly of God because Norway is a small country. Everybody knows everybody, especially within. We have the Lutheran Church, which is the state church, but then the assembly of God is the biggest one after that. And so we were kind of like

I think people admired my parents and everything and then we came back. Then my dad was very vocal about it that he had gotten into this message and the worst thing was that the re-baptizing in Jesus' name and that not the Trinity. That was like so bad. And I was 16 years old and I didn't really know. It was the first time I had felt really rejection like that because you could sense it. They were nice to us, but they weren't warm. They didn't include us anymore. All our old friends didn't know what to do with us. And I can understand because my dad

was so adamant about this. So during that time, I started feeling real insecure and actually this whole thing with the message. I feel like it's wrecked my life. I know many people say the same thing because it caused such insecurity and anxiety and I didn't really know what it was. But anyways, so my dad, after a few years, he started traveling. I'll get over to this to many countries here. Just a few, all of, if you know the countries in Scandinavia, both Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Faroe Islands, and he also connected with people in Germany. He was frank, but he wasn't really close to him. But I know

he had the biggest church and then a brother long in England. So he had connections everywhere. And then he started these conferences in Norway. And I think it was it was at 1973 or 74 Raymond Jackson came. And I know Charles knows more about this. And Ralph Strumman became a part of it. And I was the interpreter at these conferences. So I was like, my dad's right hand. He was so proud of me. And I really didn't know. I thought I was a little confused. What is this message? Because during that time from 15 years old, I had gone to the

assembly of God and gotten really experienced God in a more, you can say, a normal way. So I didn't quite understand this. and I remember after one of these conferences, which Raymond Jackson, I had interpreted him, I just, I mean, I just thank the Lord. He's been so faithful to me because I knew there was something wrong and I couldn't put my finger on it. And the thing that I noticed that was like, there wasn't any, there wasn't much about, like you say, the foundational to Jesus and the salvation and the cross and Christ in you and the fruits of the Spirit. What is most about

these message things? And then they, after the meetings, all I heard them was criticize all the other Christians. You know, that's the big thing. Whenever somebody leaves and they, there's a period of time in which you have to deprogram and deconstruct what has happened to your head. But once you do, you start to realize that this wasn't a message of bringing the body of Christ closer together, William Brownham proclaimed that he was the Malachi for and he would bring the hearts of the children to the fathers and fathers to the children. But what he did in effect was

split them further apart because one of the, one of the key fundamental elements of the message, which spread all throughout Laterane, which I think many historians have missed over time for some reason, is that William Brownham taught that the basics, the basic fundamentals of Christianity were not enough. And if a church focused on the base core fundamentals of Christianity, they had become cold and formal. And a lot of historians will write that he focused on what he considered to be cold and formal. But they never really go deep with describing what that is.

If you teach the gospel and you focus your sermons on the gospel, you've become cold and formal. If you teach on Christian love and Christian unity, you become cold and formal. Everything that every Christian takes for granted is what William Brownham taught was cold and formal and not enough. He said what he likened it to is those were the ABCs. Now he's bringing the algebra and he would say things like how can I teach them algebra before they learn their ABCs. What he's saying in effect is you need to move beyond the gospel and here's this new

thing that we're calling the gospel. And so in essence, he is bringing a new and different gospel. Exactly. And that's what I just am so thankful to the Lord that without me knowing what it was, I knew in my spirit. It wasn't right. And then I came into really crisis of faith. And I thought, I don't want to be a Christian. If this is what's being a real Christian is. And so I took some time and I was seeking the Lord. And I remember, I think I was fasting and praying right here where I live. It's right by the ocean. So I went out one day. I was sitting by the ocean. I was

crying out to the Lord. And I said, I Yeah, I don't want to waste my life. If this is what being a Christian is, I have one life to live. And then what God did was so amazing.

He, and I haven't had many of these experiences, but he gave me an open vision. I was probably about 20 or 21 years old then. And I saw the map of the world and this part of the Western world in Europe.

And the Lord spoke so clearly to me in my mind. And he says, well, which countries is it that people want to come to? And this was before there wasn't many foreigners in Norway.

And I, but I could see totally, they wanted to get out of Africa, come to Europe. And yes, the countries that are built on the Judeo-Christian values. And then he said, and then he said, there's a reason for that.

That's built on the Bible. And then he said, if you follow me, if you love me, like Jesus said, you love me with all your heart, mind, and soul. I think it's that hard, my, you can never go wrong.

It was just so I can almost hear it today, all these 50 plus years later. And you will never go wrong. You will never waste your life because I'm going to give you the power and ability to love other people.

So then how can you go wrong in life if you love me? And then I'll help you to love other people. There's no higher way of living. And I was totally released. And the Lord led me to a little group that was just very simple.

They just wanted to love the Lord and love each other. It was a part of that house church for quite a few years. But I just think of the faithfulness of the Lord. But then back to, I think that when you've gone through, you can correct me.

When you've gone through, you've been in this kind of cult environment, first with the church who got in Christ. And then, Brannems, you have something, it's almost like you're longing for something special. It's hard to just be satisfied with something.

You've heard it so much, right? Something unique, you're looking for something unique. And I don't know if that's the reason why. But during these years, too, from my 20s to 30s, I got a lot of anxiety.

And I think it just came up. When I was doing my college, it just started coming up. And I think it was, I've been too turbulent. I've lived too many places, been influenced by too many weird things.

And there was no stability. So that's why all the moving about and abnormal life caused a lot of anxiety in my life. Have you ever wondered how the... Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top.

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I don't talk about it much, but I have had experiences, and that's why when people ask me why I don't condemn the supernatural things, it's because I understand people who have them. And for me, as I was getting to the point where I was being prepared to leave the message, I think that's probably the best way that I would say it.

I had not made any decision to leave, but things were happening that were progressing to a point where I would finally wake up and leave. I'm a songwriter and a musician, and many things were coming to me in song.

So many, there was a period of time when I was having so many songs come to me that I didn't write them down, and I forgot most of them. But the themes, I look back at some of the themes, and they're exactly what you're talking about.

Where is the love? Because I would look around the message, and I would see, it's just even within the message, you know, they're condemning all other Christians. But then within the message itself, they're condemning the other message groups within the same umbrella, same denomination of faith, branemism.

They're condemning other branemites, and it became to me, there were songs that I was writing about, you know, inner condemnation, and for no reason, that kind of thing. One of the themes was, why are we preaching to save the saved?

Shouldn't we preach to save the lost? Because you'd hear sermon after sermon after sermon about trying to constrain the people and keep them, keep the ones who are already saved, keep them saved, and none of that made any sense, man.

If you read the Bible, it's counterproductive to Christianity. So I had all of these things that were coming to me, and in hindsight, now that I've left the message, and I'm looking back, and I ponder the same things that you're describing, what caused this?

Why were they doing this? And what I've, my opinion, which I seldom give, but I will hear, my opinion is that the message, its entire structure, was designed to suck people out of mainstream churches from its very inception. That's what it was. We need we have something new. We have something exciting. It's showmanship. It's stage persona. It's all of these tent revivals. And we're bringing people out of whatever it is that they're in.

But then at the same time, you're introducing a new gospel and over time that the excitement can't sustain itself. So over time, what happens is people kind of lose focus on this new gospel and their mind starts to wander because it's unfulfilling. So what has happened essentially is a new gospel was brought. It was unfulfilling and people want more. So they have to have bigger miracles, bigger tent revivals, bigger meetings. And in the end, you're left with something that's so unfulfilling that they cannot sustain itself. When my dad was traveling around, what he did, he showed that movie everywhere. Was it a man called from God about the

basically on healings? Do you know what that's called? Deep calls to deep or a man sent from God, the movie. And he gave out the books, I think, the man sent from God, but it was the movie. He would go from place to place and play the film. And then he would give out the books and a lot of people got excited about that. And then my mom was obediently following even though she didn't quite understand all this. And then what happened, he was going to one of his conferences because they

there was some kind of a misunderstanding. I don't know what happened that I heard later that Raymond Jackson quick coming to my dad's group in the south, but then the only one that wrote strument, he continued having him. But that was a smaller setting up in the north part of Norway. But so all that became very strange. But so one day my dad was going to a conference, my mom did not want to go. And my dad was like, please go with me. He wanted her to go. So she gave in. And then they had this terrible accident. And she was just in the beginning of her 40s.

And she was forever damaged forever. Her back and her neck and she had so her face, she had like over 20 pieces of glass. I mean, it was so bad. And so back in a way that put an end to all my dads big traveling because he had to take care of my mom when she didn't want to go. She was too weak and sick to go. But you know, it was amazing in a way.

In a way, it was terrible that she had to suffer, but I don't know. He probably would have gotten a lot more followers if he would have continued to travel. And then during those times, I can just imagine with her being in so much pain and I was just amazed because when I had told my dad, I didn't want to be a part of this.

He didn't know how to connect with me. It was like I felt I lost my dad. Because that was our connection in his mind. I was his right hand person and then he couldn't talk about it or anything.

I think his disappointment was so deep. And then when my mom got sick, so I lost both parents around the same time I felt right after that. And then, but you know what that did to him?

Because I think he watched my mom with all her pains, she couldn't walk much or anything. And he thought it's because of me. I'm sure he felt that way because he kind of convinced her to go in the car.

And then, but he, during those years, he became so patient and so kind. And I just had to admire him, the patients, because in that, in that car accident, she also received some brain damage.

So it was just like, even though he was deceived himself, you know, before that, he was a born again man, but he was deceived and throughout the years, with all this having to take care of my mom and help her.

I remember towards the end of his life, he started saying, now he prays our father which are in heaven every night. So it's like almost like he returned to the simplicity of the gospel, that's what I felt.

But I know many times I was visiting and he had a neighbor that traveled a lot to Raymond Jackson Church, a headland, and they would always discuss things. And so I knew there was a lot of turmoil, but I didn't know, but I knew that group of Norway splits because of Raymond Jackson, I think, but I didn't want to be involved in a lot of why and what are they believing now?

You know, that's terrible to have to go through all of that with your parents. But like you said, I'm certain in many ways, it made things much easier for you. What's interesting is whenever you're in one of these divine healing movements, whenever something happens that is out of your control with regards to health or physical pain, etc., which happens to everybody, it really puts you into the place where you have to question the entire thing.

I have family members who developed chronic pain, chronic illnesses and some of them had them until they died, and you choose one of two pasts. The past that they chose was obviously much worse than what your father did, but they chose the path, what have I done, what sin is in my life that's causing this, and it's a natural ailment.

There's no way possible that sin caused this thing, but that's how you're indoctrinated to believe, and they took that pathway, and it further worsened their condition, because now on top of the condition, they also have the mental anguish that came with that.

And on the other side, there are people who, they, something happens, it makes them snap and realize that God is much bigger than this, the thing that is happening to me is happening to everyone, and it has nothing to do with religion, and they just kind of snap out of it.

They wake up, and they go back into finding their inner peace, which sounds like what happened to your father. It seems like it, but I was so shocked when I went through his stuff, like I said, I know they split these groups in Norway, because I think something with Raymond Jackson.

And then, but when I went through his stuff, he had all these old tapes, I threw everything away, I couldn't stand it, and then he had this booklet, and I was so shocked, because I didn't know that he knew about it, because I had heard about it, about that, you know, when Brandon came to India, son of man, what was his son of, what was it?

Elijah meets son of man, or something, and I thought, what, he has that booklet, so, but we never talked about that, and I don't know if, how could he believe that? I mean, that was so far out that how could anybody believe that?

It is odd, and going with that is like, what is the moon landing prophecy? They believe that the world was ending tide to the moon landing and NASA, and all of that's published in the same book.

I think it's what's his name, Paul Azir Lowry, is the name of the so-called prophet. I don't know, I would like to get some help to know how to make a YouTube in Norwegian to try to reach these people, because I know how it's damaged my whole life, and like later, I could see, I had a tendency, I ended up going to California, I don't know if you've heard of Gene Edwards.

He had this book that was spread throughout Norway about the first Christians, and it's like, like I said, you're longing for something special. I think when you've been in cults like that, you're, I don't know what it is, but so I ended up moving there, that was the tail end of the Jesus revolution, and it was like all a young person can dream about.

I mean, we were marching in the streets, we were singing, we were, it was there was meetings morning, midday, and... I mean, it wasn't like a week's conference. It was three months of conferences in the summer.

But anyways, there was a lot of things there that was not, that was very, I wouldn't say, impure, but very, it wasn't foundational, right? You know, like his whole message was to create, create organic church, and all he did was preach Christ. It was just Christ, Christ, Christ, nothing else. Well, pretty soon, all these married people started having problems. There was no admonition, there was no thought of helping them with personal things. And then it collapsed.

But I was sucked into that a few years, and I met my husband there, and it was the weirdest things. All of a sudden, we had these wonderful meetings, and somebody would get up, and they said, I'm getting married on Saturday, and everybody would, yay! It was like a farce of the marriages, for example. It was so weird. And so I was caught up in that a few years. So it's like, now, I guess I feel now, I have so many experiences that I want to warn people, not to get trapped into all these sensational things. It looks so good, but it's, you know,

typical youth, or, you know, like my dad wasn't a young person, but when you're running after signs and wonders, and especially all this emphasis on the prophetic, and it was that prophecy that led my dad to set sail again and start this whole thing in Europe, of Raymond Jackson.

You know, so anyways, I'd like to warn people. I think that's a good idea, because one of the problems that we face when people escape the message is revictimization. They either go into something that resembles the message without the prophet, the false prophet, and they'll join it, or they find something that is the polar opposite, but in many cases it's a cult that is the polar opposite. So William Brenner did not teach the basics and fundamentals of Christianity. He wanted you to know the mysteries and beyond the basics.

Well, then there's the other side of the equation. There are people that don't really expand from just the simple basics, such that it's not a healthy church. So when people are trying to ask me, where do I go from here? One of the things that I'll point to them depending on their questions is, you can do Google searches and find this, but there are these articles of what makes a healthy church. And it's not just teaching the gospel, but there has to be a healthy growth, there has to be mentoring, and there's a whole, there's a series of probably ten strong bullet points that

that meet the criteria for making a healthy church. Re-victimization is a problem. So I think if you were to do something it would be very helpful. I think because of what I've experienced and the trauma it caused in my lot of anxiety many years wasted and then and then I thought I was totally free, you know, that I was following the Lord. And then I got re-victimized probably a couple of times.

But then I met this group also in America and I knew there was something wrong with that right away. Praise God. And that group turned out to be the way I met them right in the beginning.

And I thought no, no, here's something really wrong. So because of what I experienced with the message I knew this was really wrong. So that saved me from the way which turned, it became really bad.

But then later I got in a group in California which I felt, but I felt right away there was something off. So I never got totally involved in it. But it's like you have that longing for something to be special. And I think when you've had, when your childhood has been unsettled, even though my parents, there was no alcohol, no infidelity, nothing, but it was all this moving around and never settled, never knowing, having friends more than maybe two years was the longest I had my best friend, all childhood. And I know you've had the same thing. We moved 15 times before I

was 15 years old. And it's like it's crazy. And it was because my dad was searching for something. It's seemingly good, something good. But also I think his childhood had been his father abandoned him.

So he was looking for something too. So yeah, that revictimization, but also finally you learn, finally when I get now meet people and I think, oh, oh, no, no, no, no, I finally know, I feel.

So I really want to help warn people so they don't have to waste so many years.

So I'm curious after everything that you've gone through and the experiences that you've had, some people are totally against the spiritual, against the healings. It sounds like you aren't, because of your vision and some of the other things you've mentioned. But where did you land on healings and spiritual experiences, etc? Yeah, I'm glad you asked that because I just am wary of the hyper, the hyper worship, the hyper charismatic movement because it's so based on the soul and feelings and stuff, but I'm really for the authentic. And actually recently we just had a big conference

here and I was able to rejoice and be, I was one of the translators too, but There were several that actually were delivered and they had a demonic oppression But it was real it was authentic and it shows fruits in their lives So I'm for what's real when the Holy Spirit is moving both in healings and in Deliverances and whatever but not this hyper stuff I just want to make sure people would understand that that we were seeking the authentic Jesus Well if you could go back in time and talk to yourself as you were a little girl moving from town to town

And I know exactly what that means. I move so many times that A lot of people don't understand what this does psychologically But when you don't have a foundational environment You don't have foundations to your memories. So one of the problems I face is I struggle to remember things because I don't have these Anchor points in time that I can go back to and you know, I lost a large large part of my history So this this is a problem ironically There are many many people who are in the message called that are the same way because though they're looking for something

They're and it goes back to what I said earlier They have a new and different gospel, but that new and different gospel is unfulfilling So they go sit in a church and they Mistakenly think that the problem is with the pastor. They say this guy He's not matching what the other guy says and the other guy is not matching Brannum So I'm gonna go try another one and another and another and another. This is a common thing I met families that moved around a lot actually. I didn't Notice I didn't have any trauma moving around. I was the type that liked excitement

I liked I always would get friends would be exciting to move here and if I didn't it didn't hit me until I was in my 20s when all that anxiety came and I don't know I think maybe either the Lord protected me against that trauma growing up But then it hit me when I when I started experience all the rejection because of my dad I'm really like the idea of you having YouTube site and helping people. I think there's a big need in Norway. I've been in Communications with some people who are out of Norway or Sweden and there isn't a lot of help there

And I think it it would be good So maybe maybe I can help you set that up and if I do I will come back once you have it up and running And I'll put the link in this description. So anybody who finds this can find you Before that all of that's established if you could give advice to people who have left the message and Their potential for revictimization. What advice would you give to them?

Well, when I've moved to a new place. I moved here in 2007 I just felt like I'm gonna find the church that's closest to what I believe and That's closest to what the Bible And just try to plug in and do my best to serve God in a simple way and not have to, especially not have to run after.

I see people traveling all over the world, especially in our regions because they have so much money after this new preacher, that new conference, this new outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which they think.

Read your Bible, be satisfied with the build in loving the Lord back to what He said to me in that vision, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength. And He will help you to love people. That's the essence of the gospel. Know your Bible.

But it's very good advice. I'm so glad that you came on to share your story with us. I'm sure it's going to encourage a lot of people. So thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want to share your story, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle and Audible.