Hidden Wounds: The Faith Healer Who Died of Gangrene

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brandham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brandham Historical Research at William-Brandom.org and with me I have my co-host, minister and friend, Channel Ross, pastor and the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Channel D Ross YouTube channel.

Channel it's good to be back and to talk more about Hobart Freeman and his foot. I was looking through the list of podcasts we have. We've gone so many episodes about his foot and we're building up to a climax here.

So for people listening, there is a point to all of this. But as you're going through and you're thinking about this faith healer who's not able to heal himself but telling everybody else how they can do it, it's just so ironic.

Whenever you picture that, you know, some of the people who are sitting in the audience maybe had no idea, maybe the lift in his shoe, he was able to successfully pull it off and fool a few people.

But there had to be people who knew that he was struggling with this. I look back at, like I said, in a few episodes, my grandfather talking about William Brandham and his healing the shortened leg trick, which we've talked about.

These faith healers were doing it. Hobart Freeman had to have known this was also a gimmick. You know, him being in the situation and watching some of the people that he's around with whenever these people hang together, they kind of see what's going on.

You have to know that it's not really working, this faith healing trick for the leg. And I go back in my, in my, the weird recesses of my brain. I try to figure out was he mentally insane and that's why he continued.

Did he really believe it and was just duped like the rest of the people? Or was there something more going on? And maybe this podcast, as we bring the foot to a climax, we can, we can get into that a little bit more.

And we don't always know, obviously, what's in another person's mind. But what I found ironic in this case with Dr. Freeman was the contradiction involved in his not, quote unquote, acting his faith. We, we played a couple of clips before John where he said that he was carrying a pair of new shoes for normal feet, normal length legs in the trunk of his Cadillac just waiting for his healing to be manifested.

I don't know that everybody who has fallen. owing these podcasts, understood or new, that Hobart had a certain faith formula theology. It worked in his mind for everything and especially for divine healing. None of this was original with Hobart.

I know all of his followers thought that all of his teachings were original with him. All you have to do is a very small amount of digging and research and you see right away that this is not original to him.

He picked some of the faith elements of it from Hagen and Copeland and, you know, the faith teachers back then. He picked some of the deliverance stuff from Don Basham and Derek Prince and Maxwell White.

He picked some of the end time stuff from William Branham interpretations of Revelation and so forth, the Book of Revelation. But when it came to faith for healing or faith for anything, Dr. Freeman had written a little small book, basically a pamphlet that was entitled Faith.

There was his little faith book and you know, when you look back on those days, all of these guys wrote their own little books. They had a little book on this, a little book on that.

It was just much to do about nothing. It was just their own regurgitation of what someone else had taught. Now, Dr. Freeman did have one scholarly book. It was an introduction to the Old Testament prophets, but that was written in its original form back in the early 60s when he still had some scholarly inclinations to him.

And it was published by Moody Press, but before it was published, he had gone through his experience with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So he had gone back to that book and he rewrote parts of it.

Like his chapter on Joel 2, to tie it into acts to in the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and all of that. None of that was in the original edition.

That book is okay. It's probably, I don't know if it's still in print, but it's probably available out there and people could find it. But these other little books, like his Faith for Healing, were really interesting because in this Faith for Healing book, Dr. Freeman had five chapters which were his five principles for receiving anything from God.

And they went like this. The first principle is you have to base your faith on the Word of God. In other words, you have to find a promise in the Bible that will meet your need.

Number two, you claim it. Number three, you confess it. Number four, you act on it. Number five, you endure to the end. And it's just Faith formula theology is all it is. But I don't think any of the people recognize that back then because you can provide.

I had a text for all of those principles. You can provide several texts. And so it seems logical. It seems biblical to people, but you go to that very first principle. You have to base your faith on the Word of God.

We would all agree with that in principle, but the way he saw the Word of God was basically like Baskin Robbins. You can just go and whatever flavor it is you need or like or want, you just, that's your basis for it.

So whether it's healing or finances or deliverance or salvation of a loved one or protection when you're skidding on the ice, it's just a Baskin Robbins. You find it and then you claim it.

They were big on, you don't ask God, you don't pray, you name it and claim it. You claim it. This is your inheritance. This belongs to you that you use commanding decreeing faith. It's just a lot of pulp is nonsense.

Then you confess it, hence the positive thinking and confession. And then the fourth condition. And this is the one we're getting to because of his shoe and foot situation. The fourth condition is you have to act upon it.

And when we get to the end of this podcast, we're going to see where this part is what calls to him his really big problem. And so on those clips John that we played earlier, he carried around a pair of shoes in the trunk of his car for whenever he was healed.

So was he by his own definition acting his faith? Absolutely not. And what was so disappointing to me and evidently it wasn't to others is that he required everyone else to discard their medicines, to discard crutches, to throw away eyed glasses.

He would say if you pray for your healing, you were healed, Mark 1124 at that moment. He got that from Kenneth Hayton. You were healed at that moment. Now, since you are healed, you're no longer sick, do you feel well?

No, but feelings are lying symptoms. You are healed. Now you have to act accordingly. And so if you prayed for better vision, you have to throw away your glasses, throw away your contact lenses and so forth.

And yet, right in the middle of this whole barred and he's not even trying to hide it, is telling everyone that he's carrying around in the trunk of his caddy or in the trunk of his Lincoln town car, depending on which year it was in his ministry, drove one or the other, or he did have a big old 98.

I think. back in the earlier day, and then he said he finally got to the level of Cadillac faith, and then got to the level of Lincoln-Telmar faith that that requires different, but he literally taught that.

He said, if you just have Osmobile faith, that's the only kind of faith you have, and God will meet you with Osmobile faith. It was just, I mean, when you look back on that, and you think this guy used to be a seminary professor, and he's just spouting nonsense like Osmobile faith, or Ford, or Plymouth faith, versus Cadillac faith, you just really have to wonder what in the world happened in Hobart Freeman's mind.

You know, there were times, I think I might have had Ford Pinto faith, or not even that. I couldn't afford a Ford Pinto. So maybe my faith was different than his, but you know what's really odd about all of this is all of the different elements of things that are just vastly wrong that all of this was built upon.

You don't just come out and tell people all of this and then instantly believe it. You have to, it's like building a framework, you have to build the foundation first and then build on that, and it was largely built on the foundation of legalism.

So you've got this religion of legalism, and then you have the faith healing on top of that. Well, because of the foundation of legalism, they have to find a legalistic manner in which you can save yourself and heal yourself using these tactics.

So here are the five rules. You must follow in order to do this, which is absolutely absurd. I was thinking about this long ago, but Brandham had, it wasn't so clearly defined as that, but he had similar things that he would talk about in his ministry.

Well, what about Lazarus? Did he follow those rules, man, when he was dead? You know, if you go back to the Bible and you read, yes, maybe they did some of these things, but it wasn't as though that was required for God to heal them.

The offer was free for everybody who was willing to accept God's healing, and there's just so much to it more than what these guys are presenting. But in the end, they, people of this mindset like the legalistic framework, because if they can create a set of rules, that people can't find for themselves in the Bible.

You're not just going to clearly open the Bible and find, well, here are the exact rules that I must use to heal myself. You've got to go to this guy to get it, and when you do, it makes them sound superior, and like they have so much more knowledge than you.

And so people just open up and listen, and what happens is, as a byproduct of this, they shut off all of their critical thinking. And so it is the perfect scenario for creating a destructive cult.

Yeah. And you hit the nail on the head, my very first car. You didn't know this, Sean. I ever owned. That I ever actually had a title to, and my name was a Ford Pinto.

Wow. That was the very first car I ever owned, called Stum. $450 and I was, I was so happy to have it. I mean, it's better than walking. I was happy to have it.

You know, Hobart didn't even hide the fact that he had those shoes. I think, and I'm wondered in my mind why he didn't try to hide it. And I think probably the reason he couldn't hide it is because, well, his wife knew, his kids knew, his sons-in-law knew, enough people early in the church and the pre-carismatic days knew about his short leg and orthopedic shoe. So that's probably the reason that he had to go ahead and just announce that I am carrying these shoes around in my car because there were other people that knew the truth of that. And then the next step involved,

which we just barely got into last time, that really caused me significant problems. You know, I'm a young man and I am listening to these stories and I'm listening to his explanations and I'm listening to his teachings and I'm hearing his use of scripture and I'm processing this and originally agreeing with it. Later on trying to continue to agree with it. Later on realizing I can't remain sane and continue to agree with it. You know, you just go through these steps as we all have if you've ever been a part of anything like this and you're working your way out. And it

doesn't happen like you go into a phone booth and come out a Superman, you know, it is a process that happens. But the next step was while he's waiting for his manifestation of healing, while he's carrying these new shoes around in the trunk of his Cadillac, he is kind of, what I call flaunting his superiority and his arrogance by saying that whenever his healing did finally come, then it was going to be special. And the way he would communicate that to people and he did it on many tapes, he would share a vision or a dream or a word that someone in his church

had had about him and his healing had given him, then he would relay this from the pulpit. So I think we gave one last time, we won't redo it, but it's on a message entitled healing in the atonement from the 48 minute 35 second mark to the 49 minute 22nd mark, 26 second mark. Here's what he said. And so it is when Jesus bore my diseases and carried away my pains, it doesn't matter because someone sees me still limping. I was healed at Calvary. So he, this was done in 1974.

It was a Sunday evening. service. It was a communion service. I've said before, every time they had communion, he taught a healing message. This was a healing in the atonement for anyone who wanted to know or who's curious that morning, a Sunday morning, he taught message number 784. They were doing their little study in the book of Hebrews. But here he's saying, if you're still seeing me limp because people would occasionally come up to him and say, don't you know, God is growing legs out today. You must have missed that because God, if you'll just sit down, I'll pray for you

and God will grow your legs out, your leg out. He had succumbed to that before early in his charismatic experience, but he didn't do it anymore. He simply told people, no, I'm healed at Calvary. And then he went on in this same clip to say, one sister had a vision. She said, I don't know what it means. Oh, there have been many visions of the manifestation of my healing.

We have this unnamed anonymous sister. He goes on to say in other references to this, there have been 20 confirmations of my healing. You know, as though that's necessary or important, I think what that does is it just encourages copycat visions and copycat dreams and copycat words.

People, you know, this unnamed anonymous sister who had a vision, she got emotional sometime. I'm sorry. And I am going to say this because he died with a short leg. So there we go. Those are the facts of the matter. So did she have a vision of him getting healed? No, she didn't. It was a false vision. It was a false whatever because he died that way. People hate hearing that, but that is that is the proof. If something is predicted and doesn't come to pass, it's because it was false.

And however you want to treat that, whether it was just indigestion or imagination or whatever, it was simply false. But whenever someone has a so-called vision, they're going to go share with Dr. Freeman. And what does that do but put that person in his good graces? Because they're just confirming what he wants to believe all along. It gives him encouragement when he is then standing in the pulpit and relaying these 20 or more dreams and visions and words of wisdom confirming his healing. Guess what that does? It just gets people off his back. It tells people,

hey, you know, if you don't believe this, the majority here do believe it because God is showing them by dream and vision. And the arrogance and superiority. then comes in and the next part of what this lady says, but she said, when your healing was manifested, I saw the body of Christ entering into your manifestation.

And so here is Hobart Freeman in his classic form, John, of paradigmatic Hobart Freeman. My life, my experiences, I am a paradigm for the body of Christ. He did this over and over with his teaching in the series on exhortations from Exodus.

He would talk about Moses, was trained in all the wisdom of Egypt, and then God brought him out into the desert, Hobart was trained in all the wisdom of the Baptist seminaries, and then God separated him from that and brought him out.

He saw himself as a paradigm, and I'm sorry, that's just an arrogance and an elitism that is really, it shouldn't be surprising, but it is surprising to see in a Christian leader. He really thought, and he loved hearing these visions and dreams, that when he got healed, he was such a special purpose, our person, that when he got healed, other people are going to receive their healing at the same time.

And you know, the bizarre thing about that is all it was was a short leg. You can get by with that till the day you die, which he did. There were other people who had terminal illnesses.

I would much rather when that person who has a terminal illness gets healed than I can share in their healing and I can receive my healing too, just you from your short leg. You are such an important person that from your little short leg.

Now in this said, you're going to get your manifestation that new set of teeth. These people who have no teeth, God's going to create all new teeth in your mouth. The same day, Hobart gets his healing, oh my word.

I mean, where have these people been, where are these people that still support Hobart Freeman today? Now you're talking about the person who allegedly prophesied and that was confirmation. That was a strategy that was widely used by these people.

Whenever anybody were to dream a dream or have a vision, whatever it was, whether it's true or false, if it in some way empowered the central figure, they would run with it. William Brannum, he talked about this woman who apparently she was out of this Mormon sect and in the Mormon sect, they had apparently prophesied the name William Brannum for the Mormons and he ran with that.

So you're left with the question, wait a minute, is this a Mormon faith that I'm in or what is this? They're all kinds of weird things like that. I had a clip and I'm not going to mention where it came from.

Actually, I will. It came from faith assembly, not your faith assembly. It came from the faith assembly that apparently Hobart named his sect after which we'll maybe we'll get into that someday. But there was a person who was being publicly chastised for going on vacation.

I don't remember all the details of the story that this happened a while back, but some person stood up and started speaking in tongues about how wonderful this was that God was chastising this person and just ruining and destroying their lives right there in front of the people.

Well, whenever somebody is speaking in tongues and that's the interpretation, everybody who's in this type of movement to think, well, that must be from God because God has clearly spoken. But the things that came out of her mouth weren't the kind of things that you hear from the Christian God.

So now you're left with an even bigger problem. What God is it that these people are serving, right? And two Hobart's, I hate to give the guy credit, but to his own credit. It was a brilliant strategy to do this because if you can find somebody who's in this type of movement, who can prophesy or even claim and convince others that they can prophesy, something about you, that binds the people together even stronger than anything that you could possibly say.

So I suspect, and I'm not saying Hobart did this, but I suspect widely in the movement, you had people that were planted for that exact purpose because some of the guys just turned out to be outright scoundrels and they, I don't think they believed half of what they said.

So those guys probably planted people and the Hobart were still going to raise the question. Was he honest? Was he not? I don't know. But I can see this being misused and it's very powerful in its misuse.

Even if he didn't plan, and I would assume that he didn't, I'll give him the benefit of the down there just by him talking about this stuff all the time. Some woman or man is going to get emotional and think they have a vision and related.

And what it does then, since now Hobart is the paradigm when Hobart's leg is lengthened, the whole body of Christ is going to enter into it. What have you done but made your people dependent on you and your healing and you've created all of this false hope among those people?

I mean, he had a short leg from 1922 when he was two years old to 1984. He always had a short leg and these other people their healing has now been tied into his healing.

He never got healed. Where does that lead these poor people? Hopefully people gave up these false ideas and vision that these people have. but as we said last time, here is the birth, you know, of what we might call the urban legend, or the charismatic legend. You know, legs were being lengthened left and right back in the early 1970s. You know, oh, you got a short leg. Sit down. God, don't you know, God's growing legs out.

And as I've said before, if your leg is a foot shorter, I'm willing to watch it grow out. And when it does, I'll be the first to praise God. But when it's a quarter inch shorter, no.

I don't believe anything about that. But this is the birth of the urban legend. And as you just said, John, it becomes part of the lore and legend of the cult. It was often told from the pulpit.

It was well remembered by the people. It was accepted as a fact that Hobart was going to be healed. And when he was healed of his short leg, that all the members in the body of Christ. And I don't know if that meant just faith assembly. Or if it meant everybody who was believing for healing, they were all going to enter into that. But, you know, of course, it's not true. So

the big problem then is we come to Hobart has this teaching. You have to act your faith. Now we realize Hobart is not acting his faith. We gave a quote from one of his sermons in the last podcast. John, it was from L25 and listened to the title of the message where he talks about carrying a pair of shoes in his Cadillac. The name of the message was failure to act your faith.

It is so ironic that he would include a clip of his failure according to his doctor and to act his faith on a message and title failure to act your faith. I mean, that obviously went over his head. Had he seen the title and the example that he gave, he would have had to do some editing there, but he didn't. He just left it. But, but, but. Here's the problem. The final problem is it did not work. He was never healed of his polio short leg. And here's the background to this story. And the way that the reason that we know he wasn't is the verdict of the corner.

And we will talk about that when we get to Dr. Freeman's death. But here is here's what happened. Hobart for years had used a shoe company in Chicago, Illinois to buy his special orthopedic shoes.

The company went out of business in the early 1980s. Went out of business. This was the place that Hobart had always bought his orthopedic shoe. special shoe with a special lip just to fit his foot.

When you have the effects of polio in a short and leg like that, it affects people differently. Your foot could be twisted a little one way or the other. It could be cocked to the side in words or outward.

So you really, you need more than just a stack of napkins in the bottom of your shoe. You need a custom made shoe that gives you not only the lift but that will also give you the right form that will fit your polio damaged foot.

So the Chicago company has gone out of business and guess what, Hobart still needs that shoe and so he has to find another company to buy from. He did, he found another company, he bought a shoe.

It was an M proper fit and he continued wearing it anyway and what happened from that, it caused a blister which caused a wound which called and caused an also rated

wound which when we get to the details of the very, very end of Dr. Freeman's life and we see what the coroner's verdict was. He died among other things of gang green in his foot and ankle caused by an ulceration, caused by an M proper shoe fit.

So let's go to a message entitled our one remedy for healing. This was done in 1980. This is several years before his death our one remedy for healing. I think his text might be Luke chapter six, but the way Hobart did anything, Hobart always had an idea or had a title and then went and found the text to use to springboard into the message.

Hobart was not an expositor, he did not actually start with the text and tried to determine what does it say. He always had a fault in his mind. I wanna talk about our one remedy for healing and you know our one remedy would obviously be prayer to God, no medicine, no going to doctor to the hospital and this our one remedy for healing also guess what?

It was a communion service. You can listen to the beginning of it. I've said on dozens of messages when they are gonna have a communion service which is a celebration of the death of Jesus on the cross, a memorial of that, a looking back to that as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11, Hobart never that I'm aware of.

If he announced we're gonna do communion he never talked about the glories of heaven. or the eternal rewards of the believer or the new city of Jerusalem coming down and being established on the earth and God dwelling with us and we with Him and and He would be among us and be our God and we would be as people and He would wipe away all tears from our eyes. None of this that a normal person would think of, the death of Jesus, I have been given the gift of eternal life.

I have been, my sins are washed away. I am a new creation. I have been given the gift of salvation to my knowledge when it was a communion service. He always said, well, we want to talk about our full redemption and He never would talk about our full. He'd only talk about the half that he wanted to talk about and that was bodily healing. Well, I know what I'm talking about. I don't come here and tell you about my physical trials. I'll just tell you one to make my point. I've got an ulcer right now on my ankle that's been there for two months and it hurts and it doesn't look

a bit better but praise God. It was healed at Calvary and I practice what a preach. If God will heal your ulcer, heal, heal mine. Hallelujah and I don't go but what I see or what I feel. I practice what a preach and there are other things we could mention that's nobody's business.

You have to walk out. For people that want to listen, you can listen all the way through to the 14 minute and 34 second mark and you can hear even more commentary and more of a context of what he's having to say but I'll just go over a few of the highlights that are seen in that very early part. So remember, he's got a short foot. He's supposed to be believing by faith but he's using a shoe with a lift in it rather than acting his faith. But the Chicago company's going out of business so now he can no longer get that perfect fit. Now he's had to go to another company

with a substitute shoe and here's what he says. He says, oh, I know what I'm talking about. Talking about walking by faith and acting your faith and oh, I know what I'm talking about.

I don't come here and tell you about my physical trials and then he pauses and then he tells us about his physical trials. He was good on that. He was such a manipulator of the people and I know that sounds really cruel to say but it really was true if you carefully listen to him. He did want sympathy. He did want people to know what he that he was suffering but he didn't want to say much about it. He wanted to say just a little and then leave them hanging where they would think, oh, wow, what a great man of faith. You know, he's not just an armchair healing

theologian. He actually is experiencing some of these things himself and he is walking it out Faith. Of course, they're forgetting the key ingredient ingredient. He's not walking it out by faith. He is gone and gotten to shoot.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon and others, with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute

to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. He said, I don't come and tell you about my physical trials. And then the next sentence, I'll just tell you one to make my point. I've got an ulcer right now on my ankle that's been there two months. And if you listen to the quote, then he hollers. And it hurts the yells.

And then he yells. And it doesn't look a bit better. And then he yells, but praise God, it was healed at Calvary. And then you hear everybody rejoicing and clapping in the background. And then he said, and I practice what I preach. So, and I'll read one other sentence here in just a minute.

So I listened to that, John, and I hear somebody who's obviously in pain. I hear someone that I would say is probably angry. This isn't a, this is not a peaceful, thankful, calm, rejoicing confidence in God's faithfulness to heal. This seems to be anger. I don't know if it's directed at God that he's not healed. It could possibly be anger. I'll let everyone decide. They can listen to it for themselves and decide. Anger addressed at people who are questioning him, challenging him, doubting him. If you listen to that clip, there's definitely some anger being manifest.

There's some boasting involved when he said, and I practice what I preach. You know, if you, if you really have been healed, that's wonderful. That's great. You don't have to tell anybody about it. You don't have to stand up in the pulpit and announce that.

Then the last sentence that he gives is this. And there are other things we could mention that's nobody's business. And again, you know, I'm just a type of person like you, John. I could never have been a psychologist, but I think about psychology and why people say what they say, why they do what they do, what are their ulterior motives?

It's just, I hate it, but sometimes that's just a way my mind works. And when he says, and there are other things, we could mention that's nobody's business. I'm thinking, why did you even add that on there?

To me, it almost sounds like he wants people to think that the situation in this area or in other areas is maybe more severe than he's letting on. But, you know, I'm just, because I have so much faith, you know, I don't need your sympathy, I don't need your prayers, I don't need your help because he has so much faith.

It's not any of your business. Well, it's not any of our business. Why did you bring it up in the first place then to tell us it's none of our business? It's like you're drawing us on.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Steven Montgomery, John McKinnon and others, with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top.

And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

Now you've got me curious, you know, what are these other things? What else did he have? That's not in the Corners report. You know, I grew up in a family who was much in the same type of mentality.

You did not let the public know what was wrong with you. It's so weird to think about, I've been to new churches and when the pastor is sick or has a sick family member, it's all out in the open.

They tell you exactly, I've got this thing that's wrong with me. I'm going to see a surgeon. I'm going to see a doctor this week. Please pray for me. Here's exactly what's going on.

And in these divine healing families, especially when you get it to the upper tiers, they do not want people to know what's wrong with them and they try to cover it up. But there comes a point.

When things get so bad, you can't cover it up. So they will make a partial announcement. I've got this thing wrong. Oh, you probably already know. It's really bad wrong with me. But we have more, there's much more to talk.

Tell about and I'm not gonna tell those things. I grew up in a family that did this and I can tell people who were involved in this kind of movement, especially if you're in the upper tiers.

Once you get out from under that, it is so relieving to get rid of that pressure because then you can go to people who are actually praying for whatever you need. You don't have to conceal and withhold and say, by faith, I've accepted it and I'm not gonna tell you what's wrong with me because if I do, I'm gonna get it because I've already have it and I can name and claim it that I don't have it.

I mean, even trying to think through that, my tang is getting tungled. It's just so, it's so wrong. And once you get out from under that pressure, now you can actually have a support group.

I've got this thing I'm going through. It's very bad. I'm gonna be open and honest with everybody. Please come pray for me and oh, by the way, my wife is going through it too.

Maybe she needs some meals. Maybe she needs some help around the house. That's the kind of thing that you see in a normal church, but in these faith healing sects, it's not like this.

No, and I just want people to see that he definitely had something wrong with his foot and ankle. And it was because of this improper shoe fit. So we have another clip, John. This was, we're getting a lot closer to the time of his death in the summer of 1984.

He was teaching his little short series. I think there might have been eight or nine messages in it on exhortations from Exodus. The very last of those messages was entitled The Night of the Lord from the 10 minute and 42nd mark to 11 minute and one second mark.

That hole in my foot that's healed by faith, that looked bigger today than it did six months ago. Dear friends, if you take thought, it begins to hurt. But when I don't take thought, I forget its air and I just go ahead and walk on it.

So again, he references as he did on other tapes. I'm just giving two or three examples, the hole that he has in his foot. He's had this since that R1 remedy for healing message back in 1980.

He's got a sore. Now, this quote says that hole in my foot, that's healed by faith, that looks bigger than it did six months ago. Wow, so this is a theory. This is not just a blister.

This is an ulceration, an ulcerated ankle or foot. I think it was actually on his ankle because he talks about you don't even have any flesh there. It's just a bone. And he said that hole, which is healed by faith, it's bigger than it was six months ago.

If you take thought, it begins to hurt, but when I don't take thought and I forget it's there, then I just go ahead and walk on it. And then let's go to comfort for trouble times.

Well known, part one, part two message, just was part one. This was the next to last message, Hobart Freeman taught. Comfort for trouble times, part one was taught on October the 17th of 1984.

See I don't stand here holding this puppet because I'm nervous, but I have to keep off of that one foot with the hole in it as much as I can. I stand on the other leg, in case you wondered if he's nervous or whatever.

I was healed at Calvary for that. I got no problem. I was trying to make a point. And I like for people to hear that, you know, in Hobart's voice, I heard someone, I talked to someone, it was like an hour and a half conversation this weekend on Saturday with a man from a state out west who said, I just can't stand when you guys are you and John are doing these podcasts and you have John play one of those clips of Freeman from early on.

And I have to listen to his whiny voice. He said, I just can't stand listening to that man's whiny voice. So maybe if people plug their ears, I'll read it for you. Here's what he said.

We're talking at the very end of his life. He is going to die within two months of this message. See, I don't stand here holding to this puppet because I'm nervous, but I have to keep off of that one foot with the hole in it as much as I can.

I stand on the other leg in case you're wondering, is he nervous or whatever? I was healed at Calvary for that. I got no problem. So there are other messages where he was actually they brought a chair up for Dr. Freeman to sit down in because, you know, he couldn't stand up and he is according to him, claiming, believing, acting his faith, confessing his faith and during.

I mean, he did all the conditions and his own little orange faith book told him to do, but he died with a hole in his foot. And the hole in his foot was way worse, you know, according to the hall tops, obviously, when he died, then when he first put on a shoe that did not fit properly, that he should have taken off.

I mean, how foolish can a person be? But this is part of Dr. Freeman's mentality. You approach everything by faith. You don't approach it from just a normal, logical point of view. If, you know, the shirt's too tight, you know, you get a bigger shirt or you lose weight one or the other.

If the shoe doesn't fit, you buy a shoe that... fits. No, he bought a shoe that did not fit. We've all put on a pair of shoes. It didn't fit. Man, it's rubbing our ankle. We get rid of those things yesterday because it hurts.

First of all, it starts off what? A little red, and then it actually turns into like a little slight blister. And then what happens if you continue to wear that? That blister becomes big, and then it's going to pop and burst. And what happens if you just continue wearing an improper fit?

You're wearing a hole right in your ankle or foot. And that's exactly what Dr. Freeman did. I'm sorry for the man because I'm sure that was really painful, but that was really foolish, and really stupid to do. It's not biblical at all. The Bible is full of administrations that God's people, Old and New Testament, just use practical wisdom in the way they go about handling themselves and their life. And so John, this is a real extreme case with Dr. Freeman, but it's the same kind of thing that caused so many of these other people, their lives that literally died. It's the same thing that caused Pamela Meeney, the little 15-year-old

young lady who died of the kidney problems, her life. It's the same thing that caused so many of these other people their life. They claimed their healing when they looked at their body. They didn't see any evidence of it, but they said that doesn't matter. Those are lying symptoms. I'm just going to continue to persevere. I'm going to press forward. But what I would encourage people to do is to just forget about the stringing together of proof texts. Really just forget about anything or everything you've read in the Bible and deal with reality. The reality is you have a

hole in your foot. The reality is not that you're healed. The reality is you have a hole in your foot. Now look, there are passages that come to my mind because I know the way Hobart would proof text everything. There's a famous passage, Sean. He would use in Romans 4 to end verse 17 where Paul is talking about the promise God gave to Abraham of a son Isaac. For 25 years, Abraham doesn't see a son Isaac until he waits and endures. What these people do is they read back into that stuff. I don't see Abraham confessing. Hey, do you see my son right here? I know he's

invisible, but he's here because God's promising and I believe that by faith. So can you see Isaac but he's standing right here beside me. He's just invisible. That's no different for Abraham. to have done that than what these people are doing today. No, we don't see it, but we believe it by faith. And so you have the end of verse 17 in Romans four where it says, calling those things which be not as though they were, calling those things which be not as though they were.

But if you read that verse, God is one who calls those things which be not as though they were because he's the Almighty God and he can make miracles happen and he can create things and he can give birth when Abraham is a hundred years old to a miracle child.

What these guys had done nowadays, they have taken that phrase, calling things that be not as though they were and think that's what we're supposed to do. So I'm calling this thing which is not as though it were. And so there we go with those mind games. Well, I'm not healed, but I am healed because name and claim it says I am healed. But if I look at myself, I'm not healed, but I am healed because Romans 417, I'm going to call those things which be not as though they were. I'm just going to say

there we go again with a classic example of somebody who is lifting a text totally out of his context and I'm even doing with faith and healing doesn't even have to do with the person naming things that are not. It's actually God. And so if we could spend the last few minutes, John, talking about a favorite phrase of mine, I'm sure you're well aware of it and you've probably talked about it before and maybe we need a definition of it or something, but it's called cognitive dissonance. It's a really interesting phrase that the psychiatrist and psychologist have come up with.

And what it has to do with cognitive dissonance is when it happens to all of us human beings, when we have one belief in our mind, but our life doesn't reflect that. And so the cognitive dissonance speaks of the tension, the the angst, the uncertainty that the person deals with knowing, well, I have this belief and yet I don't have that reality in my life. And an easy example would be someone who knows intellectually that to eat fast food seven days a week is unhealthy for you and you can expect negative unhealthy consequences from that. We all know that. That's that is common

knowledge. That's a belief we all have. But there are people who even though they have that belief, where do they eat seven days a week fast food? They still go there. That's the cognitive business. It actually was a phrase that was, I think, invented by a social psychologist named Leon Festinger and he wrote a book. This is so interesting.

It's almost a book that if people aren't familiar with, they should go read it. It was published back in 1956. It was entitled When Prophecy Fails. What Leon and some colleagues were doing before they wrote this book, they had done some research in religious groups of all things. In religious groups, hence the title, When Prophecy Fails, of people who have these beliefs, like we've talked about with William Branham and like we've talked about with Hobart Freeman, who will make a prediction as William Branham was prone to do. What happens when you make the prediction and it doesn't come

to pass? Before they wrote this book, there was a group in Chicago. It was a religious group. Yeah, they were kind of whacked out, but a prophecy had been given in that group that there was going to be a cataclysmic flood, not worldwide like Noah's, but a devastating flood that was going to affect Canada and the United States and Central America and Europe. It was going to happen if I remember correctly on December the 21st, maybe in 1954 or 55 prior to them writing this book. They were already investigating this whole business of cognitive dissonance. How people handle that

tension that they experience when they have a belief and reality doesn't fit it like Hobart in his foot. He said, well, he wasn't healed. Something has to give. You either have to change your belief or you have to justify why you don't have it. One or the other, something has to give.

So they actually infiltrated this group because they wanted to see. They knew that this prophecy wasn't going to happen. You would have known that and I would have known that as soon as it was given that on the morning of December 21st, this flood is going to wipe out Canada and the United States. I would have told you a week before that ain't happening. That's not going to happen. They knew it wasn't going to happen, but they said, let's get in the group. They infiltrated the group because they wanted to see the responses of the people. Of course, what they found there,

John, is so fascinating. That's why this book was a classic book when it came out because we've seen it in the breakup or the aftermath of all of these religious groups. You have certain people who are such core believers.

that they simply find a way to justify or re-explain the prediction. No, California didn't fall into the sea, but really what he meant by that was, you know, XYZ. No, his foot wasn't healed, but, you know, how we interpret that is XYZ. And then you have another group of people who are not as hardcore and they go, wait a minute, that didn't happen. Where does that leave me?

And where does that leave us with everything else this person has said? So my concluding remarks on this case study of Dr. Freeman and his leg, his foot, his lack of healing is, I think there's severe cognitive dissonance happening in the holdovers, the leftover remains of Dr. Freeman's group, rather than looking back and honestly saying these things didn't come to pass, rather than justifying the lack of experience. We need to go back and we need to correct our beliefs.

I've been recommended that book. I've actually not yet read it, but I have heard about it. And you're right, we have often very frequently talked about cognitive dissonance because that's essentially what keeps a person in a cult. They know something's wrong, but and often they're presented with two very, very incompatible belief sets, some of which may come from inside, some of which may just simply be two conflicting doctrines in the cult itself, and they can't be reconciled. There is no reconciling the differences and so they try, their mind tries to make both sound to be true. And one of the basic examples in this movement is just the, you know, the name and

enclaim at the positive confession however you want to call this, it's simply lying and there are people whose morals can't cope with this. So whenever they say it, deep inside, they know that they're lying to other people. And so they try to, through cognitive dissonance, they try to just suppress that internal feeling that, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just did that. They try to suppress it and they try to find ways in which they can limit that feeling that they have deep inside.

The brain does this automatically. They will automatically, I talked to a person who had left the cult and I was trying to explain to him, William Brenham had three different birth years that he claimed, two of which were tied to supernatural events or supernatural ministries. One of them is his Elijah ministry, one of them is his Moses ministry. And if you take away one year, you also take away that ministry. It can't be all three. A person can't be born all three. And I'll never forget this guy telling me that he said, I don't care what you say, John, the prophet said it,

I believe every word. I don't understand it, but I believe every word the prophet said. And I'm like, come on man, there's no way you're born three different years. But that's how the brain just, you know, the brain tries to reconcile this, but where I wanted to go, just take it a step further and it's actually, we could do a whole podcast on just cognitive dissonance, but what they explain in these books and these psychological studies happens internally in the person's head.

They try to reconcile the differences, but in a cult, it goes one step further. They realize and recognize that other people are also having cognitive dissonance. So if somebody were to speak out about it, they must also lash out because their own cognitive dissonance won't let them set still, and at the same time, if somebody else were to suddenly realize, wait a minute, this is all, I'm just lying, whenever I do this positive confession thing, well they're breaking the doctrinal rules, so that cognitive dissonance tries to reconcile their own cognitive dissonance by lashing out at another person,

which gets really, really interesting if you think about the cult dynamics because now you've got people watching people and monitoring what they do and say because of their own cognitive dissonance and it turns into this group mentality of control.

So it isn't just the leader that's controlling, it's each individual in the group through cognitive dissonance trying to eliminate their own cognitive dissonance. And that's a mouthful, and so we'll do that in another podcast, so thank you so much for doing this.

Yeah, the full name or title of the book, John, is when prophecy fails, a social and psychological study of a modern group that predicted the destruction of the world. So it is right down the same path of all of these podcasts that you guys have been doing and some that you and I have been doing.

And I think the basic answer to cognitive dissonance is just integrity and honesty and transparency and make sure that our life reflects what our belief system is. It's simple, simple as that. You just got to be honest and if things don't square, you got something's got to give.

You got to give up something. Absolutely. Something's got to give. We should have titled our podcast series, something's got to give. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

You can find us at William-Branum.org. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

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