When Prophets Rewrite Scripture: The Hidden Cost of Branham's Theology

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-Brannum.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, and friend, John McKinnon, author of The Persuasive Preacher, The Gifted Profit, and The Noble Politician. John is good to be back and I just want to say I'm really excited for this episode. I've actually been wanting to do this for a long time and you sent me the idea and we're running with it, but we've talked through much of the history and just because of the

history, people who were in the message cult, the following of William Brannum, they came to realize that many things that they were told just simply was not true and we have this mass exodus from the Brannum cults, but as that cascaded down because there were so many ministries that were built on top of Brannumism, many members of the other cults that splintered off of this, and even some of their descendants, their grandchildren cults, if you will, splinter groups, they all have the same type of thing happening to them. They realized that some of the things

that they were taught were faults and they're trying to wade through what of this was real, what of this was fiction? And in the end, after you go through that examination process and you do some self-evaluation and reflecting on what you've learned, you come to this, everybody seems to come to the same conclusion. Some of this might have been actually dangerous. What of this that I was taught not only was destructive in a cult sense or fictional from these ministers who are lying, but how much of it was actually harmful to us. That's a conversation I've wanted to have

for a long time. I actually want to approach this from various different viewpoints. So I'll probably talk through this with you. It was your idea. Talk through it with you first and I'm probably going to bring some others into this conversation. Call for anybody who has been in one of these groups and they've escaped. They want to share their story. If you hear this and you have ideas too that's worth sharing and you want to join the podcast, just contact us on the website.

But anyway, I'm excited to get into this. Hello, John. It's good to be back with you again and I think we're on our third episode perhaps that we're going back into the message. and looking at some deep dive into more subjects.

And I just want to focus on some things that I've found as I've studied more deeply, and not that I'm trying to teach anything in particular, but just to emphasize things and how William Brown taught the scriptures and how he might have tried to sway the people.

And so today the subject's gonna be the deep dive into Acts chapter 18 to 19, right at the very end of chapter 18, into the beginning of chapter 19. And this way, I hope to show how, you know, William Brown have bent the scriptures why it's a problem, how it can be harmful, and how it opened the door to things such as a new apostolic reformation and all the men that came after him and that continued through this day.

Cause you realize that once scripture can be discarded, once you can bend scripture to how you want and your way of thinking, then you can use it to your own means. And just justify what you're doing to others even.

You can make them believe that what you're doing is even correct and you can use it to your own means. Whether you're just mildly off the word and you have a group somewhere and you go with that and you're no real threat to others or you can get majorly off the word and you become a threat to your life and other people's lives with your strange practices.

You end up with beliefs that just lead people off a cliff and we've seen that, you know, we've seen it recently, even in the message in Africa with a starvation cult, for instance, you and Charles are talking about it currently with in the early stages of the message, how it split into so many splinter groups with the men who were following the message and following Brownham, they branched off in all kinds of directions and they were many times not very good men holding these positions of leadership and we just see how getting off the word

even in a minor way can really cause these problems or if you discarding scripture not coming back to saying that you're absolute. Now, we in Brownham no doubt gave lip service to say and I'm only following what Paul preached, I'm only following the scriptures and we're gonna not deviate from scripture and get off a scripture.

It was he knew, I mean, he had to say that that, you know, we, to give the people to believe the fact that he was on the scripture is that we can't get off a scripture but people will give lip service to that that actually in practice they don't follow it.

These kind of teachings that we were gonna find today, they lead to people preventing them from challenging their leaders with the truth and holds them in bondage and that's a dangerous position to be in.

When you can't challenge your leader openly and try to bring them back to the word and say this is what the word says, this is what you're saying. When you can't do that, it's a very dangerous position to be in.

And what's the man that we've seen, what's they have been placed into leadership or once they've been acknowledged to be a leader in these groups? It's very hard. to dethrone them when they're corrupt and that has led to very bad consequences.

It has. Some people don't actually recognize those consequences until after they've been out for many, many years. When you first escape, you go through this flood of emotions. Almost everybody who has been in the support groups will share this.

You go through these emotions of extreme sadness and shock, what just happened to me. You start to notice when you leave a destructive group, almost all of your friends and family will cut you off.

In the homage they have, what's called shunning, they actually will not let you interact with people who've left, but in the cults like this, it's not the same. There's almost this emotional shunning that happens.

Sometimes family will cut you off completely, just like the homage, but other times they will just emotionally shut you out. You're always wanting to reconnect and get that same level of friendship, family relationship that you had before, and they just won't let you back in.

They have emotionally shunned you. It isn't until after you've processed that that you begin to realize that the foundation that was laid by William Brannum and others that came after him. If you go back in history, others who were part of the creation of who was William Brannum, it's the same thing.

The same things were happening for decades, and you can go back all through history. They manipulate you and they make you feel like you have to be part of the group, and if you're not, you're less than human, and that's really the problem.

After you've escaped and you've gone through years of deconstruction trying to piece back together your life and understand what hit you, you begin to realize that it was the very foundation that was laid by all of these men in history that called themselves Christian, that it's actually the office of the Bible.

It's not bringing the hearts of the children to the fathers and the fathers to the children. It's actually separating them. Yes, John. At the onset, what I want to emphasize is that Brannum was just repeating the Pentecostal doctrine that he had embraced a long time ago.

He didn't start this beliefs with his own revelation or getting this from God. It was really just Pentecostal doctrine. He embraced this method of the three stages of salvation, which I'll point out later on in this podcast.

They really believe that to this day that there's three stages of salvation. At least it sounded like he did on the surface. Now, William Brannum eventually deviated from that, but on the surface what he was preaching was to hold the Pentecostal people together and to try to get them under his wing.

His motive for doing that was to appeal to the only group that really paid attention to him in those days and took him seriously at the time. while he was conducting the healing revivals, especially in the early days from 1947 to say the mid-50s, which was some of the Pentecostal world, because we know that probably half or more of the Pentecostal world really rejected him 1953, only six years after he began ministering, after they figured out what was behind him. Then the Pentecostal world largely began rejecting him.

It went further even after this to make his message unique from all other churches. It began to build the legacy that he was going to leave as being the only prophet to the age with a message and that the spirit only comes to those that believe the message. And that'll be important in what we're talking about today. It wasn't just the preaching of Christ and him crucified anymore. It was actually moving on to his so-called message that he believed he got from God.

So that leads message believers to have to say, you know, the message is Christ because generally deep down, you know, anybody that's a believer in the Christian faith, have to believe that Christ is the center of it. And so they have to say the message is Christ in order for you to really embrace the message. So in their hearts they know what it really boils down to, but they have to still give homage to the message. In other words, because of their belief that if they don't, they're going to lose their salvation. And the message, if you latch on to that,

it actually leads you away from Christ. And then for Christians in the message, they end up with a mixture. And that's what I found in the churches I've been involved with is really you got a mixture because you got a minister that was sincere. And many, you know, just believe that William Brannum was the prophet because of his gifts and because of his so-called supernatural manifestations.

And we've seen and we're actually showing the facts behind these supernatural manifestations, really weren't supernatural at all, such as we started with the cloud and showing how that wasn't supernatural at all. And many of the visions that will eventually maybe go into those, but you and Charles and you've covered them very well of how the visions weren't even coming to pass.

And there's some I want to focus on too as well later on. So it leads you to that mixture. On the one hand, you know, people will have to say, well, I believe in Christ for salvation, have that personal experience with him. And that's what you hear. You know, a lot of the message preachers will preach. And that's a great thing. But on the other hand, they have to also say they believe what the prophet said. And then if you don't believe God sent a prophet, then you're not in the bride.

And therefore, you conclude that you're not even a Christian because only the bride makes the rapture, only the bride gets to be seated with Christ. And therefore, how can you even say that you're a Christian unless you believe the message? So that's the mixture that they have. So it's truly a mixture of Christianity and false doctrine. And really the false doctrines and the false beliefs really poison the truth that they have.

And many find themselves living in a dual reality, which is where I found myself. You know, one where they're claiming Christ, and the other where you have to bind yourself to a unique teaching by a man who's really proven, according to what the scripture says, you can find many places where the scripture will declare what constitutes a prophet or not.

And what that says to actually be, you know, we find William Bram to be a false prophet because of the declarations of scripture and the qualification scripture is very specific about. And so I really see that this should create a frustration in believers of the message, but usually they have to throw off one or the other.

And it's usually the scripture that loses every time because the mind has to conclude with the evidence at hand that they may have access to, which is the tapes, the stories they've been told, or the testimonies that they've heard, or what they believe that they're seeing, say in the pictures that they see and so forth of the cloud, at least on the surface that the prophet was speaking for God, or that he heard from God and he knew the true interpretation.

And that's another factor in this is that they only believe that a prophet has the true interpretation of scripture. So you have to be some prophet with a supernatural manifestation, have to have some prophecies to say that you're a prophet, and then that's what they follow.

There's a song that used to be out there that has been sung and it was in the message. It was called Eagle Call. It even says this with a line from the song itself, and I'll read that.

It says that Eagle prophet was a special built bird and referring to Bram. He gave us life by giving us the word, you know, they believe they had the true word. And here's the other thing that nails it down.

He gave us life by giving us the word, the true interpretation of it all. Thank God I've heard that Eagle call. So it's like their story that the eagle in the barnyard with all the other chickens, you know, the eagle was born an eagle from the start.

And so he's the only one that hears the mother eagle call. And so the prophet is reckoned to be an eagle and he makes the call. And then the person has the true eagle, the true Christian.

He flies up to the heavenlies while the chickens are left in the barnyard. And so a very funny story, but now it doesn't have the same meaning as it once did. So what the message does to Christians, it pulls them away from the central message of Christ and him crucified, which is what Paul said the gospel was.

And Lee's in the believe they're now in a different dispensation, such as the cloud being the central point of that, you know, when you put the cloud up there and many do put 1963 as a dispensational change.

My own pastor did and continues to do so. But it's not a mysterious cloud at all. And it wasn't some supernatural event at all, you know. was not that at all, but yeah, they put this.

Now we're in a different, different dispensation. They've been led out to an island really, whereas only them and their children, whoever they can now convince to believe the message. It should be very hard to convince anyone now though, with all the information out there.

So I think we'll see going forward, and we've already seen it in families that we sheltering their children even more, keeping them out of public schools perhaps, just so they can homeschool them and indoctrinate them in the message, not so much in basic reading, writing, arithmetic, but making sure they're indoctrinated fully in the message, even in the churches.

And day after day, that will have the best chance of the message surviving long term. You know, you mentioned the cloud, and we did a full episode on the cloud. What's interesting is when I grew up, that was a deep part of your salvation.

And I know that people who are in the cult will argue with me especially now, because they don't realize how gradually things have shifted. We used to have, there are churches, and even still today there are, but many churches back then would have the picture of Brannum with the halo, which we've also examined that.

There was lighting in the building, like any other building, and they would have the cloud. And often they would have it in the sanctuary of the churches. We have Charles and I look through some of this, and we've showed some examples of churches that still today have this.

But it was part of the salvation, because on the one hand, you had William Brannum with the halo, and the halo represented, or was supposed to be a literal version of the pillar of fire above his head.

And then the cloud was supposed to be seven angels who gave him what became called or known as, a deep part of the message. You had the opening of the seven seals. We were taught that William Brannum, defied the book of Revelation, when it says that no man is worthy to open the seven seals, well, the way Brannum twisted that is, he said that he would say often, I open the seven seals or we open the seven seals.

But what he was essentially doing was trying to shift it such that these angels came down through this cloud, and science captured the angels as the way he described it. They came down and they gave him the mystery behind the seven seals of revelation.

And, you know, if you take that away, you're extracting a huge part of what was literally called the message, which is why the cult itself is called the message. You take that away, you really have nothing.

And so what has happened over the years? It shifted a little bit. They've decreased the level of importance of this and tried to say that this isn't important. Yes, William Brannum lied, but he was a flawed human being.

I've heard this, you know, over the years, I've heard this from message ministers themselves, who few of them would reach out to me and say, he was flawed, you're flawed, everybody's flawed. Yet, I'm not lying about seven angels coming and giving me the literal seven sealed mystery of the book of Revelation, but he did.

And what's interesting is now they've diminished it so much that they say, well, that's not important to our salvation. Well, if it's not, then why do you need Brannum at all? Why not just go directly to Jesus? And hopefully that shift will continue, and some of these ministers will actually do that. But because Brannum did this, and keep in mind, if you're in the NAR and you're listening, there's always this phrase that seems to be flung about any of the big apostles or prophets in the NAR. They'll say, Brannum had a powerful ministry, and then he went astray. Well, if you look at the timeline, these were

during what we're talking about was during the years that he had not yet gone astray according to their views, and yet he's lying about the whole thing. So what parts did he lie? What parts did he not? And like you said, it really comes down to a question of salvation. If you're building your faith upon something that is a foundation of sinking sand, how can you build a foundation that's going to stand long term? And that's why we see the message crumbling today. Yeah, you know, John, I really feel bad for message believers on one hand, because the indoctrination is going to stay

with them a long time, a long period of time. It takes years to really come out of this indoctrination, you know, maybe even a lifetime where they'll, the sad part is they'll waste their lives on a message that was never sent by God, and they'll never hear the full account of scripture. Maybe in there, maybe if they come out soon, surely if they do come out soon, they'll be able to have more years diving into scriptures. Hearing other ministers speak about the scripture and get such a broader knowledge rather than just their very focused approach and what the few doctrines they do believe.

So on the one hand, on the other hand, I know that God is able to call people out, you know, the ones that are in there and indoctrinated are able to be called out. And I have the assurance and hope that many more will wake up to these issues and realize the body of Christ in this entirety consists of many people and many different churches. And there's always going to be a mixture in those churches. We know that the churches will that add that the man made rules or require certain rules to be followed outside of scripture. Of course, they're going to lead to error and not being able to

fellowship with the broader church world. And that's that's that's the part that I believe breaks scripture. You know, we can never embrace anything unscriptural, of course, within the church world. But we can find fellowship with those who don't go to the same churches we do and we should, you know, Christ should be at the center of our fellowship and not a certain man who claims to speak for God alone. So so in this in this broadcast today, I just want to make it clear I'm not trying to be a teacher or sway people's beliefs. If you hold a certain belief about this

elevation, want to make that very, very clear. The purpose of this episode is just to point out some things in the scripture and how William Brannum used it. Use the scripture to point to himself and end up having to say something different than scripture teaches to make the scripture matches ministry. And that's exactly what we said, Ice of Jesus does. You know, you're pointing, you're reading into scripture something about that's not really there. You've been scripture ignore certain things to make it match your belief system.

So we've all been guilty of that, failing to look carefully at one time or another before we draw conclusions about scripture. And so the approach I'm taking now is just always be willing to be to adjust what I how I see it, how I see something that there's more evidence to the contrary to what I believe I'm willing to adjust. And I try to do that very quickly, but cautiously now because you know, you don't want to be lit in the era.

That's the key to why people stay in the message. You know, they're not willing to go through the pain or the effort of the willing to change when contrary evidence just stares them in the face. It's a dangerous time really at this time for message believers because when the evidence is out there, you know, it places them in the decision making time. It confronts them in cognitive distances. We've said, you know, it takes over a lot of times.

Most just choose to ignore just so that they can avoid the pain of confronting their own beliefs or our mind tends to do that. It's too painful. But we do have to face to pain to come to the truth a lot of times. So to me, it's like like the Jews were in Jesus' day, you know, the religion was good up until the time Jesus came and told them, you know, what God really required. And then it was painful to change, you know, many lost their families, their associations or lives, even put to death just because they had to change

the message. It could be, it could be just as easy. It's much easier right now to make a course correction. You know, later on, it's going to be more difficult. But right now, the way I see it in the message that we can easily make a course correction and you either have to say that Christ and the truth is more important to you right now or repeating the lies that we know or lies or those that have been exposed to the issues and keep holding on to that. You know, it's much easier now than it will be in the future. So,

so you have to say to yourself, you know, and people have to make these decisions, it's my pain and my loss more important than truth and the scripture and the sake of the gospel.

And the longer they wait to make corrections, at this point, I think the more painful will be for them and their families later. Once the truth is out there, you know, if we just stick our heads in the sand, put a blindfold on, it's not going to make things any better.

And it will not change the facts, you know, that's been brought out. And what I also believe, John, I believe, ministry does bear about 90% of the responsibility to make. these course corrections because they do hold a position of trust and authority and they're teaching being teachers of the people.

So what they do with the facts really show their true colors. So if you're a believer under these particular ministers, what they're doing with these facts really show who they are, where they're only after building up their kingdom or keeping their money flowing in, avoiding egg on their face who are really caring about the souls and eternal life of the people they claim to serve.

You know, that's the crossroads I was at, do I really care enough about the people and the people I'm claiming to serve with the word or do I just care about covering what I know up and just saying something to them is going to be a pleasant to their ears to hear.

You know, I think we have to come to grips with that. And so to me, it was not, it was a no-brainer to me. I could not continue, you know, ministering the word and things I know weren't true.

I had to come to that crossroads and had to say that that's what I had to do or otherwise I just have to leave. So maybe there's some of them, the ministers out there that are really deceived and they put themselves out there as a teacher.

They do bear their responsibilities still, even if they're deceived, or they admit it or not, except the responsibility to be challenged. It just comes with a territory of being a minister. So far, I can see that ministers are just running away.

They're hiding and they're name calling others. So I'm glad to see that we have a few that has accepted the responsibility. There are a few ministers out there that are coming, have come out and have cared more for telling people the truth.

And so to me, that's been so encouraging. I'm glad you brought up the encouraging parts of all of this because there are many people who are on the outside looking in at this weird thing that we call the message.

And they say, these people are willfully allowing themselves to be submitted to false doctrine. Sometimes it's just extrabiblical, but in many cases, there are things that were taught that were just anti-scriptural. And if you, like you said, if you choose the words of William Brannum over the Bible, this places you into a very dangerous category.

So people outside looking in, they think that they have the choice to just walk away. But it's not always the case. Sometimes you've been brainwashed, manipulated, you're under a level of mind control. Or also, like you said, sometimes just cognitive dissonance steps in and you're trying to reconcile, okay, the Bible says this one thing, William Brannum taught the truth and he stayed with the Bible and he taught the opposite.

And your brain tries to mix those together and try to make sense of it. And that's why it's so confusing sometimes whenever you get into a debate with a person under that level of mind control, what they're saying doesn't make any sense.

But to them, it's very real and it does make sense. And I'll never forget, I had... minister contact. He actually drove here from out east and he was in the Brannum cults and he told me, John, I really like what you're doing. I disagree with everything that you say about William Brannum. I think he was a good man, but the problem is he said ministers today, they have taken him above the Bible. And in my church, I don't do this. I always stay with the Bible. And if William Brannum says something different, I'm quick to point it out to the church. And we got to talking for

a while he went into deeper into what that meant for him. But when he started talking about the things that he stood for, he was still saying some of the things that William Brannum said that were actually either extra biblical or anti-biblical because his own cognitive dissonance wouldn't let him go any further. And that's again, we're talking about the dangers. That's the real danger of this because when you're in this mindset where you're under this level of manipulation where somebody has said that Almighty God is speaking through this person. And you're trying to uplift some of the things that is being said and trying to understand that some of the things were just

completely false. Where do you draw that line? You're being manipulated either way. And so there is some danger there. And where it gets really, really dangerous is whenever there were, William Brannum would say, let me take this verse as my context. And then he would go off into something that was completely out of the context of the passage that he was reading. None of it really tied back. But what he did was he planted in all of the heads listening this thing that was supposed to be meant by a certain passage in the Bible. And today we have these, they call them

word ministers and they're preaching these phrases. And they're quoting verses by the book name in the chapter and verse numbers and using that as loaded language. And so they're overloading what these verses actually mean. And people who are in the pews, they're being indoctrinated to believe that that specific verse means this other thing than what's in the Bible. So that's where it gets really dangerous. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical

Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, Sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.

On behalf of William Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. So now I want to get in to see how William Brannum used these scriptures that we're talking about. So turn to Acts 18, verse 24, I want to read this real quick, and a certain Jew named Apollo, born in Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

This man was instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in the Spirit. He spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. So when we read this, we see Apollo as first a Jew, and Jews of course only knew the Old Testament.

That's what they were very familiar with. They knew that very well, which says he was a great speaker, eloquent. He was strong in the Old Testament, and he was at Ephesus. He was in the vicinity of these other disciples, we'll be seeing here in Acts 19.

It says that he was instructed in the way of the Lord. He taught things with a lot of zeal. It was fervent in Spirit. But all that he taught was that God sent John and preached to people, have to repent.

He took John to be from God of course, and he preached repentance. He only knew this about John, but surely he heard about Jesus, you would think, but he didn't preach the gospel because he had to be corrected by Aquila and Priscilla.

His preaching did not save people, could not save people who heard him because he didn't preach only Jesus, his work on the cross, and really what it did, what it accomplished for them. So people had nothing to put their faith in other than just, I'm going to repent for God.

John's preaching was more of what people could do. It was more of a works thing. Here's what you can do. You can repent and believe in God, but didn't go so far as to tell them that we do not work to get salvation.

God gives salvation by grace alone and the Spirit of God comes to regenerate the person and forever lives on them after that when they believe the gospel. So in verse 26, it says, he began to speak boldly in the synagogue and when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

And after they expounded the Word of God to him, his whole message then was Christ and him crucified, that Jesus was the Messiah prior to that it wasn't. And then after that, Apollo was disposed to pass into Akeia, which is in verse 27, the brethren wrote exhorting disciples to receive him who, when he was come, helped them much, which had believed through grace, for he convinced the Jews and that publicly showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

So prior to him meeting Aquila and Priscilla, he didn't do this. He only preached the baptism of John and what that was all about. He really didn't know how Christ and the scriptures matched up and what Christ really did for them, believing through grace.

So there we see, that's... what the scripture is actually saying. So there was a time when Apollo's was not preaching truth fully and then there was a time when he preached Jesus was to Christ.

So where we tend to read into scriptures, at this point, to start make doctrines in Acts 19 is when Paul met those disciples in Ephesus. You know, we find out that disciples are just learners.

It doesn't mean they believed anything about the Christian faith. You know, in fact, we find they didn't know about Christ or his work. They'd only heard of John coming and were baptized and repented of sins.

So people make the inference here that these, because they were called disciples, they were actually Christians or they knew about Christ and his work and they just hadn't received the Holy Ghost yet. And so let's read in Acts 19, one, what it says there.

And it happened while Apollo's was at Corinth. You know, Apollo's had left. Apollo passed through the England country, came to Ephesus and there he found some disciples. I say the scriptures doesn't say they were Christian disciples, just learners.

But we find out here in the next verse what they really knew. And the scriptures also don't say that Apollo's had spoken to these disciples. You know, they were just disciples. It doesn't say that Apollo's was there.

We might could infer that Apollo's could have preached to them. But we know for a fact it wasn't, when Apollo's knew about Christ, it was more about when Apollo's knew about John if he spoke to them at all, because there was one time when John had only, Apollo's had only spoken about John.

So we don't know what these disciples had heard about John at the Jordan River. They attended his baptism and his preaching or what they heard it from Apollo's. But one of the two they did, they heard it at some point.

So in verse two, it said, and Paul said to them, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believe? And they said, no, we've not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit. And they said, well, into what then were you baptized?

And they said into John's baptism. And Paul said, well, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe and the one who was to come after him, that is Jesus. On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, they began to speak in tongues and prophesy as about 12 men and all. So the issue becomes then is what you believe Apollo's had said to them, if he spoke to them at all.

And to me, it's obvious that Apollo's, if he did speak to them at all, he spoke to them prior to his visit with Aquila and Priscilla because these disciples also needed instruction not knowing only of John's baptism.

And that did not affect salvation in them. They didn't receive the Holy Ghost under that teaching. They didn't receive the Spirit because they didn't have that true saving faith there because faith is specific and it has to be placed in the right thing for God to affect salvation.

So in reality, where the William Brannum was using these scriptures to relate to the Pentecostal world in general about someone has to be saved. and then receive the Holy Spirit, whether he was trying to say, well, I believe the same thing as you, or I'm not sure, or whether this is one example of the many where he didn't say the same thing as scripture says, you know, what we're not trying to do here is referring to whether you receive the spirit at the time of faith or sometime after, we're just saying that William Brownham read something into the text

that wasn't there. And therefore, we're showing how this led to him bending scripture, you know, to point to himself to either relate to the general Pentecostal world to try to bring him under his wing, or eventually point to himself as we'll see. Exactly. And as we get into this further, this will make more sense. But if you take William Brownham's version of the manifested sons of God doctrine, from which many of the NAR structures were built, you have to understand that he was literally teaching that whenever the Bible is talking about Jesus sending the Holy Spirit, or especially the

phrases like you too can become gods, he's talking about there are apostles and prophets of the last days that will be the Jesus Christ manifested before the people. And so when it's talking about Christ's return, this was the return. And that's why you have what's called the return ministry sect in the message following a William Brownham. They're teaching that Jesus has come back in these people. Brownham, because he's on this platform that shared with all these other ministers, he kind of opened the door for a bit and pulled it back to say that it was the movement. Christ was manifesting

himself in the movement. But like you just alluded to later in the years, he went to say that no, it's it's going to be and he didn't come out and just say me, but he uses phrases that if you're in the message, you know he's talking about himself when he says these things, which we'll get into. But through this manifested sons of God, you have to understand that there there comes a problem with this, because in Christianity, you're teaching that your followers of Christ, your follower of Jesus, well, whenever these people inject themselves into this

and they say that Christ is in them and they have the spoken word, the voice of God, the ramah, these other terms that they're using, they're literally saying that they are the ones, their voices are the ones to be worshipped as a new replacement for the Bible. And that's dangerous. So yeah, John, this is it just keeps going and going, you know, the more you deviate from the text of scripture, the more you read into it, it just takes you further and further away. And so so what we find out here is what way in

brandham read into the text, he was saying that these these disciples were actually Christians like the current Baptist churches. This is where he really got off into this era that he was in. You know, the Baptist church is seen by the message believers only nominal when it comes to Christianity. And just like all other denominations are to message believe.

You know, Baptist and denominations other than Pentecostal at the time William Brasmus preaching are seen as those who don't really have the spirit baptism of Christ yet. Yeah, we know that anyone who doesn't have the spirit of Christ is really not Christ at all according to scripture. So that's a that's a big statement to make.

And this causes division among Christians and saying you don't have as much of Christ as I have because you didn't have this certain experience. And you need to seek for some extra experience. So then we begin to rely on experiences more than we rely on scriptures.

And later in William Brasmus case, we have to think that there's some message to believe to even have the spirit. That's where this eventually led. That's why this was not very a very safe teaching to try to hold on to.

And I'm going to read a few quotes from William Brasmus just to show you to kneel down what he was believing about this scripture. He says in early spiritual experiences in 1952, July 13th, he says, that's where I differ with my own church, the church that I come from, the Baptist church.

They said, you said you received the Holy Ghost when you believe I said that's contrary to the Bible. Paul said in Acts 19, he asked those baptists up there that was following Apollo's. He said, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believe not when you believe.

But since you have believed, you believe first and the Holy Ghost is the gift of God. So he comes to you. It is different. Here, altogether different from being saved, being called out in God.

So here we see he's starting to show you that he believed Apollo's had preached Christ these people. They became just like regular Baptist church people are today. They believed in Christ, but just hadn't received the Holy Ghost.

And this is where relying on the King James can be an issue because the King James puts it in there as a term since you believed when I've read where that scripture can mean when you believe just as easily if not more than trying to say it comes after.

So regardless of what it means, as soon as you have saving faith, as soon as that faith is given to you, you receive the Holy Spirit, the baptism. It's not, you've got to wait for it sometime after. And that's where we, when we get off into that, then we start doubting our salvation, then we start seeking after experiences to try to nail down when when Christ has come into us.

But the obvious way you know Christ has come into use is how much are you following the word after that? You know, how much is your life? Are you loving the word? Loving the word, loving Christ, loving, attending church, loving to fellowship with other believers, a lot of other evidences other than speaking in tongues or shouting or whatever to prove or believe in the message to prove that you have the Holy Spirit.

So here's another quote in Israel in the church, number four, 53, March 28. He says, I ain't got nothing against the Baptist. They got a whole lot of good things. But look, brother, I heard them on the radio.

The other day, I fell of a fine Baptist minister trying to bypass Acts 19. He said, Apollo's didn't know Jesus. So that's the reason they had to be rebaptized again. Then Brother Brown said, Oh, no, Apollo's did know Jesus.

He was proving by the word of God that Jesus was to Christ. Amen. And he said, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed? That's right. So here we see what William Brownham really believed about these scriptures.

See he took the scriptures out of place and he said, Well, the scriptures say Apollo's new Christ. He was preaching publicly Jesus was to Christ. But what William Brownham doesn't seem to say is that there was a time when Apollo's didn't know what Christ had done or did not know Christ in the fullness.

He shouldn't know him and know his work on the cross and see he misplaced scripture there and tried to allude to the fact that trying to build his doctrine on the fact that well, you can know Christ.

You first have to believe in Christ before you receive the Holy Spirit at some later time. So it's this last quote we see what he really believed. He believed that Apollo's had preached Christ to those disciples when in fact he had not even if those disciples had heard of Apollo's preach to them because Apollo's was only preaching John at one time and John's baptism.

It was if if if Apollo's did meet those disciples, it was obvious before he met a quill in Priscilla because after that we see that he was publicly preaching Jesus Christ. So William Brownham just places us in the wrong sequence.

So to the message believer, they would say this is not important, it's not important that William Brownham taught something wrong, but I disagree. It's vitally important because we're dealing with things about salvation here and the credibility of the prophet of God.

We're building a doctrine that says you can put your faith in Christ and still be lost because you don't have the Spirit of God. That leads people to wondering about whether they are even saved or not.

Then in the message we find a lot of people wonder, do they even have salvation or not? They're trying to figure out what is it that I got to believe to have salvation. Even the message leads to confusion about salvation, people are forever wondering about their assurance of salvation.

The only assurance you have in the message is do you believe William Brownham's message or not? And that leaves people to leave scripture out and to make sure they have the message down path first and that they think they know versus what the apostles preached only.

They have to have this message that they're trying to put together. It gets you in all kinds of twists and turns and then you're living in bondage and whether you know it or not.

You may like your bondage and be content with it. Many people are and then many people have to go through the motions again. They have to get re-baptized again. I've seen that happen not too long ago.

They almost had a re-baptism ceremony where everybody marched through the line and got re-baptized and they were baptized many, many years ago early in their Christian walk and then... That just was evidence they doubted their salvation want to make it sure again. And this happened in a message church Here's another quote from questions that answers on Genesis in 1953 July 29 Says Paul in Acts 19 after he passed over Apollos was Billy Graham Type up there was having a big revival in a good time He said have you received the Holy Ghost since you believe to that bunch of Baptists?

They said we're John's followers We know Apollos is our preacher. He's a converted lawyer smartest man in the country And I think brother Brannum through this quote Amico's just in the example of how he Through awful men who study the scripture or have been to college or seminary I was just his Way to kind of throw that out there There's another one and God keeps his word 1957 January the 15th he said And we want you to tell us how to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He was speaking to somebody He said now we believe that and when we receive the Holy Ghost when we when we believe

And I said well did you ever read Acts 19? And he says yes, I said well there's some mighty fine bad best up there Had a good pastor a good preacher's name was Apollos. He was a converted lawyer He was proving Jesus the Christ by the Bible. Here's another quote. He brews chapter 2 Number 2 in August 25th 1957 He said Paul Acts 10 5 he passed through the uppercose of Ephesus. He finds disciples He saw him at Acts 19 They were Baptist disciples was everyone Baptist They were converted under a Baptist preacher by the name of see Apollos

He was a Baptist preacher and he was proving by the Bible Jesus was the Christ Paul said if you receive the Holy Ghost sent you believe They said we not know whether there be any Holy Ghost and he said how was you baptized They said we've been baptized by the same man that baptized Jesus the whole of water out there That's good enough. Paul said that won't work now You have to be baptized over again And Paul commanded them to be baptized over again in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ Let his hands on him and the Holy Ghost come on them correct. Yes, sir

So so William Bram was just again affirming the fact that Apollos he believed Apollos was preaching Christ to these disciples He believed that these disciples had believed in Jesus That somehow the Holy Ghost hasn't come But that's not what the scripture said because we saw Where they only believed in John's baptism they have it yet known Christ It was only when Paul preached Christ to them, but they really believed in Christ But he used these quotes William Bram used these quotes over and over to throw off on Baptist churches Has not having enough or any of the other denomination not having enough either. He deliberately used Baptist name

While not really explaining that he was referring to John's disciples With the name Baptist or he was saying something derogatory about the church he had associated with I think it was both You know, but the issue is that William Bram taught That the disciples had heard Apollos preach Christ and we know that's not the case We just we just went through it with script In my mind, a prophet would have to expound the Word correctly, because they constantly say, message believers say, a prophet is a divine interpreter of the Word.

So I can't give William Brown a pass here if he cannot expound the Word, or give a little more attention to the Word to get it correct if he was really a divine interpreter of the Word as the message believers would say.

And here's one more quote in 1957, questions and answers on Hebrews 1, and they come over here and found a Quillin Priscilla, and they was having a revival up there by a Baptist preacher by the name of Apollos, who was proving by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

And things like that is what made me recognize the dangers here, because like you said, he's saying two different things. And what he's trying to do is he's trying to suggest that he is more than human.

And everybody else is less than him, especially who are evangelists on the field. And I began to notice that many of the things that he did, it wasn't just that he was an heir.

There was a strategy behind it. And once I picked up on the strategy, I began to realize, this was a dangerous person. This was not the humble little prophet man that he claimed. So I began to investigate his so-called humble history and found out that it was almost complete fiction.

But he's trying to elevate his status to that of a God. And when you get to that level, and people are believing it, that's where it becomes really, really dangerous. We have examples like you mentioned the Shaka Hula Forest massacre, you've got Jim Jones who is also in this.

When a person has convinced his people that he is a God, this turns into a very, it's the recipe for disaster. So yeah, John, I believe William Brown, I knew what he was doing and how to sway people into his thinking that he only preached truth.

You can see how he took the scriptures there and was constantly just hitting it over and over again like that because he wanted people to believe a certain way. He used Christian doctrine and he preached enough of that on the surface.

It sounded like it was genuine. But then he put down other ministries and gave Christian churches a bad name for not following his rules, his interpretation of scriptures. And then he gave lip service to following only the scripture, which was good.

As far as he went preaching scripture, but hopefully I'll present in the future where he took detours and we're going to see a lot of these detours. This is just one example where he took a detour from scripture to get some kind of point across.

In another quote in 1957, Hebrews chapter three, this is where he gives lip service to the Bible. He says, there's something about where you go, what church you go to, what teacher teaches you.

Did you know that? It's got something to it. And therefore we ought to seek out the very best that we can find. So we're getting the best, not because it's sociable and so forth, but real Bible teaching.

So he taught the series in Hebrews in 1957. This was in September. first, but here he is trying to allude to the fact that you've got to find true Bible teaching. And then here's another quote from Hebrews series on September the 8th, where he says, the Bible can only have one meaning. It can't have two meanings. And if one part of the Bible says one thing and another part of the Bible says something else, then something is wrong. See, it's got to say the thing all the way through it. But remember, in studying the Bible,

is hid from the wise and prudent, revealed to babes because it's a spiritual book. It's not a Western book. It's an Eastern book. There's only one thing can interpret it. That's the Holy Spirit. I know each one of us wants to say that the Holy Spirit is telling us, well, we believe in it. Well, now if every scripture lines up exactly the same, then that's the Holy Spirit.

If it doesn't line up, it's got a gap there and a gap over here. There's something wrong with our belief, always marvelous book. So here, William Brown is giving a lot of lip service to the Bible and saying, have must line up. But clearly show there. He didn't make it line up there in Acts 18 and 19 because he got it out of place. And that's a red flag. I mean, it's just clear. It's really clear when you look at it in the scriptures and read it. But here he is getting it out of place,

failing to understand these disciples were not Christian believers prior to receiving the Holy Spirit. So here's another one where it nails down clearly. This is right after the Hebrew series. It's actually questions and answers on Hebrews, 1957, October 2nd.

But now as far as having eternal life and being a Christian, you are a Christian the moment you believe. Now, that's not make-belief. That's truly believed on the Lord Jesus except to measure personal Savior. You are born again right there and have eternal life. God comes into you.

Now watch, eternal life. Jesus said, now he that hears my words, believe it, don't him that sent me, happy eternal life, shall not come into judgment but pass from death into life. You're a new creature right then. Then Paul had meant some of these people up there in Acts 19. They had a preacher up there with them, which was a converted lawyer by the name of Apollos. And Apollos was a mighty man in the scriptures. He was proving by the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. See? Now watch, Apollos through the Word was proving by the Word. Faith comes by hearing the Word. He that

hears my word, believe it, don't him that sent me, has everlasting life. You get it? Apollos by the Word was proving and listen to this. And these were Christians. They were followers disciples. Apollos was proving by the Word that Jesus was the Christ and they had great joy and received the Word, yet only knowing the baptism of John. So how can you have both? You either have Christ or you have the baptism of John. And he goes on and when Paul passed through the uppercost of Ephesus, he finds these disciples and said, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believe? See?

Now this is a tremendous contradiction of everything he's saying here. If you go through this paragraph line by line, you'll find in one place he's saying, you have eternal life the moment you believe in Christ, no the other.

point. He's trying to point to the scriptures, not having the Holy Ghost because it's since you believed. And then he was trying to say, Apollo said, preach Christ to them. He said they were, they were Christians. It's just to get his take on the scriptures here, but it puts a lot of confusion. You know, how can you be a Christian without the Holy Spirit? You know, dwelling inside you. He even said, God comes into you. This whole quote is just a massive contradiction. And that's why that's why it creates confusion. That's why the message puts confusion in the hearts of

believers because when he says things contrary, one after the other, you know, what do you put your faith in? You know, John McArthur put the word disciple here. He said, it means learner. He expounds us a little further. He says in the concept of believing, there's no real implication of Christianity here. The reason people assume they had to be Christians here is because the word disciple in the book of Acts is used to speak of Christians, no less than a dozen times, at least in the first 15 chapters. And so they say they've got to be Christians. And that's where

William Brownham makes the error. He says they've got to be Christians because it says they're disciples. Well, the teaching of Acts 191 to 7 then is this. Here were 12 men who lacked the Holy Spirit. Do you know why they lacked the Holy Spirit? Not because of a failure to summon him. Not because they didn't surrender, not because they didn't speak in tongues, but because they never knew Jesus Christ.

And that's very clear in the scripture. So it's to demonstrate further, I want to show how churches even today hold on to this doctrine, you know, and demonstrate how that they believe in three stages of salvation. The church here in my hometown, there's a couple of quotes on there from some of the staff. And here's how they say they came to Christ. And this is one of the Pentecostal churches. So it says so and so became a member of so church in January of 1996, held several positions in church leadership since that time, including being a member of the

pastors council. Brother so and so was saved in July 1983 and was later sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost in February of 1995. Now that's what 12 years later, he continues to be a blessing to the church and the members daily. Here's another one about a sister. Sister so and so became a member of the church in 2001. She was saved in 1963 and received the Holy Ghost in 1968 and became a member of the church ever since. So it just showed you that there's people today that actually believed that there's a time when they received salvation, received Christ and then later received the Holy

Spirit and even was sanctified. So they put the salvation experience into those three stages. Even even William Brownham did this many times. Here's an early sermon 1953. Demonology physical realm June the eighth if you want to look it up three elements There's three elements we go through that weren't born again Justification sanctification baptism of Holy Spirit now that can be all in one act But it takes but you can be justified in a justified state without being sanctified You can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and still carry on your filth with you But you could absolutely live in both a justified and clean holy life and without the Holy Ghost

Now here's another one in question and answers 1954 now you cannot have the Father without having the Son You cannot have the Son without having the Holy Ghost Because but you can be justified without being sanctified and you can be both justified and sanctified And still not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost see that's true that scripture Here's another one in 53. I won't go through that one But in this one in 1953 This is what we'll get into in another time There was five wise virgins who had all in their lamps rapturing faith

Believe in all the signs wonders prophecies and everything and these five cut out of the remnant was taken away The rest of them was still virgins and not will not be lost But we'll go through the tribulation period because before that he said you can be in a justified without being sanctified You can be sanctified without having the Holy Ghost be clean live a pure life have a form of godliness to not the power of healing Speaking in tongues great gifts of god and everyone them in there And he said there's your five wise virgins who had all in the five foolish

Which I'll go through another time Uh, and here in 1965 and one of the last sermons he preached in January 24th he said And so it is in the spiritual realm is water justification by faith believing god Receiving him as your personal savior and being baptized second is sanctification of the spirit And god cleanses the spirit from all elements of the world and desire the world And then the Holy Spirit comes in and gives new birth and fills up that sanctified vessel So prior to that you don't even have the new birth according to this teaching and they're in lies the heart of the problem

It comes down to a salvation question Can you be saved in the message or is this a different thing that's teaching a different gospel that is a different version of salvation and that honestly that's the question that hit me so hard that whenever In 2011 I made my decision that my family needs to get out of this This is not healthy. It's destructive many of the things I discovered some not to the level now But many of the things that I had examined to that point I found out that he just clearly was not telling the truth and once I recognized the pattern the strategy behind the things that he said were untrue

I realized that this man is toying with the heads and I've got to get my family out of here That's why we walked away So John I don't want to leave people hanging out. I want to wrap this up And really really say what where I see it and and so the confusion maybe can be a laid here but it's easy to be confused when we receive Christ in spirit with all the teaching us out there in the church world. I just want to make it simple. You know, a person gets saved, you know, when God decides it's their appointed time and they receive the spirit at that time. It enables

the person to believe with saving faith as we know Ephesians says you're saved by faith and that's not of yourselves as the gift of God. You know, at that time is when you receive the spirit of Christ is when you believe with the faith that God gives you and I would I would turn that saving faith. There's no future period where they have to become sanctified and then fill with the Holy Spirit or baptized with the Holy Spirit. I'll use a term should be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

They have the Holy Spirit right there when they're regenerated the moment they believe and I see sanctification this way. You know, when you are saved, you're positionally sanctified in God's sight, you're clean in God's sight because of the work of Christ on the cross, not because of any work that you did, not because of the way you clean up your life. Over time, I believe that sanctification will become more and more a reality in your life as you grow in grace. As far as the experience of the baptism of Holy Spirit goes, you know, you receive that when you believe also

whether or not you have manifestations as seen in the book of Acts or not. But at the time you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, you then are commanded to be filled with the Spirit. You know, that is in scripture. The key is here where the confusion comes in as you're never commanded to be baptized with the Spirit. There's no command there because that's the work of God. That's something you cannot do, but you are commanded to be filled with the Spirit.

That's something you can do. Now, how do you do that? How do you become more and more filled with the Spirit? Well, John, it's just letting the word of Christ dwell in you richly day by day, growing in grace and in the knowledge of Lord Jesus Christ. It's as simple as that.

And here's a couple of examples of where Paul commands in scripture. I'll read here. Colossians and Ephesians, if you read the book, simultaneously, you can see they're very closely related and one interprets the other. Colossians 3, 16 says, let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and monitoring one another's songs and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Now, that's something that's a command left the word of Christ well in you richly. Ephesians 5, 18 also has another command. He says, and be not drunk with wine, where is the excess? But be filled with the Spirit.

Speaking to yourselves and songs and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord. Those two verses dovetail perfectly. One is talking about letting the word of Christ dwell in you richly. The other one's talking about be filled with the Spirit. So, if you want to know how to be filled with the Spirit, don't look for some massive manifestations.

to come upon you, but stay in the Word of God. So I want to emphasize, as I wrap up here of what I'm saying, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or belief, but just trying to show how William Brownham's beliefs and how he bent scriptures was moving into the message and how when you start with the bending of scripture, then it leads into all kinds of things that we see in the church world today. And in this case, he was using the term Baptist and Acts to present the idea that a person could be a Christian and really

not possess the Holy Spirit, which the scriptures are very clear about that. That is an impossible thing to say. Eventually, he would use this belief to make his message exclusive to believing in order to have the Holy Spirit, because eventually we'll find where he said you've got to receive the message of the hour and that proves that you're the elect.

And that's where this teaching of his ended up. And that's why what he taught is really harmful to people and believers. It's not so much believing in experience after salvation, but he was tightening his grip on people with this belief and then ostracizing all others who did not agree with him being the prophet of the hour. That's what it eventually became.

And John, I'll end up there, but I'll say we've got so much more to cover on this subject and more to come, more to bring out about why the message is harmful to Christians. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really looking to deep dive into other scriptures as we go along. So we'll see you next time. Sounds good.

If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-Branum.org. For more about Roy Davis and William Branum, you can read the persuasive preacher, the gifted prophet, and the noble politician.

And for more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.