David Terrell: A Survivor’s Story of Faith, Fear, and Freedom

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my very special guest, Victoria Pierre, former member of the David Terrell cult. Victoria it's good to have you I've as I said right before we start recording I have just been dying to get somebody out of David Terrell sect. I think I said the name incorrectly there at the beginning but I know people are commenting you don't even know how to say his name right. You know it's

such a small group and all of these guys they boast that they have this big following and they try to make it sound bigger than it is and this is just some little no-name guy but the reason why I've wanted to have him in here. Number one he is connected to Branhamism he is a offshoot he's a splinter group of Branhamism but number two for years I have had people from the David Terrell cult contact me they want to know more information how did he start why did why was he connected to this how did Branham launch this ministry that

ruined my life basically was the sum of pretty much every email that I got so anyway I'm glad to have you to talk through David Terrell and maybe if you could start by just telling everybody a little bit about yourself yeah sure so like he said my name is Victoria I'm I was born in New Jersey which is a very unusual place to have been raised in this cult and get into that later because it's a it was in the south we eventually moved to Virginia when I was in high school and that's where I live now currently I'm a teacher and you know I'm

still a Christian thank God but I was born and raised in you know brother Terrell's ministry we just we called it the ministry so he actually recently passed away last year I believe he was 90 90 years old and he had been preaching up until COVID so you know as a child I attended the revivals we would drive down to you know South Carolina Florida Georgia Tennessee you know we went to all those places he would put up the big tent sometimes he would go to individual churches he kind of had a circuit he would go to all these

churches that were affiliated with him and And in the summer, he would set up the big tents. And he was doing this way up until, I think on YouTube, you can find 2015, even 2016, 2017, him still preaching.

But, you know, sadly, at that point, he had, he was developing dementia, actually, and you can kind of tell. But he still was like going, and nobody, I guess, wanted to stop him. Like he would, you know, be reading the Bible, but he would read the same passage like 10 times and like not get to the point.

And, you know, we're all this kind of, you know, like, we can't, you know, nobody could be like, hey, I think you should stop. So yeah, he was at it forever for his whole life.

But, you know, in terms of how I see it, I only recently, as in the past few months, really started to look at him differently. Now, I've been, I would say, out of the cult, you could say, since I left, since I went to college, I stopped going to any church related to it, but I didn't reject it in my heart.

I just was like, you know, I'm in college and I wanna wear pants, I wanna go to parties. I didn't go crazy, I was like, I'm still not drinking because drinking is a sin.

But, you know, I think pants, I think I can kinda get away with that. So, I was kind of like, I knew I was like, I'm being a little rebellious, but, you know, I would never say I rejected it.

You know, I would never say, oh, if he's wrong. But, I started to have some questions in college because that was the first time I was really getting to know other Christians who were not in the same group I was in.

And they were doing things and I was told for abominations, you know? And so I had this cognitive dissonance that started because I was like, well, these people seem so sincere, but they wear makeup and they wear pants and they're wearing shorts.

So, my gosh, in what? Like, I was thinking these things, but I'm embarrassed. I would never say them, you know? And then, you know, I joined it on campus, like Christian student group and, you know, we had a little retreat and then worship service, they're playing all these songs.

I have no idea what these songs are. You know, because we grew up with just like, you know, the old fashioned like 1960s, bluegrass country type stuff, you know? It's all the Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, God, I'm all my mind, all that kind of stuff, you know?

So, I was like, what are these songs? I don't know anything like, you know? And because contemporary worship, that was like, you know, no, it's charismatic mess, as they did, say. So, I was like, you know, very uncomfortable.

And then, you know, people are reading by- that are not the King James, and we were told King James is the only, you know, Bible that there is, and all these other ones are, you know, not inspired or whatever, or they're changing things, and so, you know, I felt they're uncomfortable, but I still stayed in these groups because I thought, well, you know, I think it's better than not being in anything, and I don't know, I think they just don't know better. And, you know, so that was kind of the beginning of the sort of something is off here, and I couldn't bring myself to say or to think

that these people weren't really Christian, I couldn't do it. So, I was like, well, they just don't know. What's funny is you have described my life growing up to the letter, well, not to the letter, I never wanted to wear makeup. There was probably the only difference between us, but you've described pretty much every, every person who comes out of the Brandeum sect, that's the way that they are whenever they interact with real Christians who aren't in the same cult. I'll never forget whenever I had that first experience, I was like, wait a minute, these people can't love God,

this woman's wearing pants, she's got makeup, and it had, I was talking with another guy, he said, it's turned into a religion of the dress code, and that's pretty much what it is for the ladies. Now, for the men, it gets a little bit deeper than that, but so you were primarily from the south, which I want to talk about that a little bit later. I want to talk about David Teralis ministry and how he came to be, but you, as I understand it, you went to other countries as well, is that right? Yes, so when I graduated from college, I moved to Japan, so I lived in a couple

places, so I was born in New Jersey, moved to Virginia when I was 13, and then I went to college in Connecticut, and then I went to Japan. So in Japan, I would have called myself a Christian, of course, I always told people I was a Christian, but I wasn't, I guess, living the way I was supposed to, you know, I was wearing pants, okay, I was wearing makeup, I was listening to secular music, and I was also doing things which I really shouldn't have done, you know, I started having relationships with men. I was like, I was, I even went to temples and stuff, not believing in it,

but just, you know, just for fun, like, I want to see all the Japanese temples and shrines as, you know, because they're beautiful, and I would follow the custom, you know, you wash your hands, you do this, you light some incense, now I wouldn't do it, but at the time, you know, I wasn't solid in really, all I knew was what I was taught about the end times and all that kind of stuff.

We didn't really, I didn't have a very solid, now that realized biblical founding. But again, if you'd asked me about Brother Terrell and the ministry, I would have said, yeah, it's true. I shouldn't really be doing these things.

I started drinking alcohol, drinking is a big thing in Japan. I got drunk for the first time as 22 or something, but I was running away from guilt. I was always feeling guilty deep down.

I would just try to ignore it. And I kind of lived like that until I had a bad breakup with my Japanese boyfriend. I wanted to marry him. He wasn't a Christian, and I wanted him to become a Christian, but Pentecostal, of course.

But I also felt guilty because I'm not living the way I'm supposed to, how am I supposed to evangelize to him? And so I didn't talk about God a whole lot with him. He just knew I was Christian.

So when that ended, I wanted to get him back, and I thought, well, okay, I really have to tighten up. Like, I've got to know my Bible. I really have to study, you know, I didn't know word at the time, but apologetics because I wanted to convince him to become a Christian.

At this time, maybe I was 24, 25, right now I'm 31, so it really wasn't that long ago. And so I started to really read the Bible, and now I'm growing up reading the Bible.

My mom would read it with us, but, you know, it's filtered through what you're told to believe about it, right? And what I did, which was different, was I didn't just read the Bible.

I searched on YouTube online for apologetics stuff because I wanted to counter the arguments that I knew he would make about, well, why is there only one God? What about the Japanese religion and this and that?

So I started coming across, like, I'd heard of William Lane Craig since like high school and I had watched some of his debates, so I got really into him, I got his books, I watched his whole defenders series, which is super deep doctrine, like theology.

And, you know, he would mention things that I'm like, I don't know about that. Trinity, for example, I was like, well, I don't know about that, but the, you know, the ontological argument, yeah, that sounds good, you know, but I would, you know, I'd kept searching, I came across other Christians, and they were, they were all saying similar things.

And I was like, well, these people all seem really solid. And they're all saying the Trinity is like super important. And like some of them are even saying, you can't be saved if you don't believe that.

And some like, okay, well, could it be true? And so that was like, all right, I have to know, I have to, I gotta be like honest. and like really look into it. So that was really the first thing that got me to doubt Brother Terrell's teachings.

Because when I first went on this spiritual journey, I was listening to his stuff because I thought I didn't really know what else to do to be more spiritual. So, you know, I went on YouTube and I went on a fast and then I read, he had a couple books.

I read his book that I had and I watched his videos and stuff and was trying to, you know, seek God. And I believe the Lord heard me because the first thing he brought to my attention was the Trinity.

That was the first thing, the first doctrine that I was like, I have to figure this out. And so I went through, I got a notebook and I just went through the New Testament multiple times.

Every time it mentioned Jesus, like and his attributes are wrote it down. Father, you know, it's Holy Spirit. And I had to answer the questions, okay, is this are these attributes of God? And I had wrote down all the verses.

These are all attributes of God. Are they all attributes of someone who, you know, as a person, as opposed to a, I don't know, a force or something, for example, with the Holy Spirit.

And I was like, yeah, I mean, it says he did this. He can be grieved. That's personhood, right? And then the last thing was, do they interact? And then of course, I found so many examples of them interacting.

And so I was like, so they're all God. They all have personhood and they all interact. So they're not the same person. How can I say that's not the Trinity? And then I was like, oh my God.

And I actually texted my mom, because I was, I wanted to hear her perspective. And she sent me some stuff about, you know, the, the, what was it? The Council of Nicaea, basically, they invented the Trinity, that whole thing.

And, but then I was searching, as I'm looking up apologetics, I'm coming across defenses of the Trinity because a lot of these apologists, they know this is a big thing that comes up, mostly with Muslims or Jehovah's Witness, but I'm like watching the videos.

So I'm like, you know, doing the apologetics to myself, actually, of, oh, so this thing I heard is actually not true. Oh, the Council of Nicaea didn't actually, oh, oh, oh, okay. So all the stuff I've been taught is like, fell down.

And I was like, I think I believe in the Trinity now. I still felt uncomfortable a little bit, like, you know, but I was like, I think it's true. So, but then how do I see God now?

Like, so when I pray, am I praying to all of them at the same time? How does that work? Like, oh, I had, I was like, I always been taught to pray father in the name of Jesus.

That's when my parents taught me. So I'm like, I'm talking to the father or am I talking to Jesus? I always thought I was talking to Jesus. So I'm like, what am I doing?

So I think I was overthinking it. But that was kind of the beginning. And then it just sort of like opened up from there with me questioning, okay, that's wrong. Okay, well, gosh, I guess everything else I have to look into now.

What about all the dress code stuff? Maybe that stuff isn't? You know, I remember going through so much of that same journey. In fact, it was different for me than most people who were in the cult because I actually read my Bible as a kid.

I read it constantly. And I remember having this strong debate with the coworker when I was 16 years old, maybe even 15 years old. And he was a trainitarian and he was very, very strong in his faith.

And he was trying to convince me because we were like you were, the oneness doctrine that Brannum was preaching. But see, I'd read my Bible and through cognitive dissonance, I was hearing Brannum say oneness, but I was reading trainitarian because Jesus said, I will send the Holy Spirit.

He didn't say, I will become the Holy Spirit. And I knew these things, right? So we're having this big argument and it's weird because I'll clearly remember the look on his face was complete shock.

He was trying to convince me of things. I was trying to convince him of the same things. He was trying to convince me. But because he used the word trainitarian, I thought this man was evil.

He was of the serpent seed as another phrase that we would call these people. And then, fast forward years later, went through the same journey. I'm going through, I read through Apologist Works like No Man's Business.

I don't even remember all of the works that I read. There were books, there were videos, there were debates. I went through constant, constant things like this. And you've mentioned the Council of Nicaea.

I want to expand on that for people who are listening who aren't aware. Because Brannemism, and largely through his assistants and cohorts and the laterane movement, they spread the notion. And this was a, believe it or not, a clan-inspired notion that the Council of Nicaea is what brought the trainitarian doctrine into the world.

And we need to eradicate it because it's evil. And it has come into the United States. They're trying to take over our government. The Catholics are going to rule. That was, that was this doctrine.

And I believed it. I believed that the Council of Nicaea was for this purpose because that's what I was told. Why would they lie to me? I was shocked to learn that it was actually to discuss the divinity of Jesus.

It was not about trainitarian doctrine. It was the Aryan controversy because what is an Aryist, the Aryan controversy, he believed that Jesus was not divine. And so they had this big debate. Once I learned that, I realized, well, if he's going to lie to me about this, what else did he lie to me about?

And I just started going, the whole thing started to... unravel. But it was very much the same as what you're describing. So I sympathize with that journey. If you, anybody who's listening who hasn't made that journey, understand that it makes spaghetti of your head. Yeah, yeah, because then you're like, what's true? You know, now I'm glad that I never really got to a point where I was really questioning the existence of God or the veracity of Christianity. And I think that's because I had what caused me to unravel with apologetics. So while this thing I believe is being broken down, I'm also hearing good arguments

for why Christianity is true. So I'm, you know, I believe God was helping me and was kind of keeping me safe in this process through, you know, through that. But yeah, like I was buying all the books, you know, Craig was just one. But, you know, I got into Robbie Zacharias actually, unfortunately, you know, what happened there. But, you know, like G.K. Chesterton, who actually is a Catholic. And, you know, speaking of Catholicism, we had the same sort of indoctrination, oops, sorry, about the evil Catholic church and account. I do want to get into Brother Terrell

and what he taught specifically once I kind of go through my journey real quick. Yeah, I mean, I got really into it. I'm, you know, I love learning, I love reading, I love academic stuff, like philosophy, I love all of that. So it was very natural for me to go down that route.

And eventually, you know, after this couple of years of this that I sort of just believed, okay, I think, you know, Brother Terrell, he was just uneducated, you know, and he was uneducated, you know, he didn't go to school past, like, I think the third grade. And so, you know, he just misunderstood things. I thought, okay, he doesn't know the history of the Council of Nicaea, or he doesn't understand what the Trinity is. Because a lot of Christians, frankly, don't quite understand the Trinity. They, some of them fall into modalism when they try to explain it.

So I thought, I think he just didn't understand it, you know, and with the dress code and all that stuff, like, I was like, well, you know, back then, that was what was considered modest attire.

And so, you know, he was sort of just pushing his opinion of what modesty was. But, you know, things are different now. And so I was trying to find ways to sort of excuse, I guess, his beliefs.

It's like, well, yeah, I think he was wrong about these things. But I definitely wasn't prepared to say, oh, it was a call to where that he was, you know, false or anything. I never, like, I couldn't get to that point yet mentally. But what really got me to start looking at him was I had searched his name in Google a couple of times just trying to see what was out there.

And I came across a book. You may have heard of it called Holy Ghost Girl by Donna Johnson. And when I first saw little blurb, I was like, no, I couldn't, and I just couldn't handle I wasn't ready to read something like that.

I was afraid of it, I was afraid. And now having studied a bit about mind control, I read Hassan's book actually when I thank you, you introduced me to that and I read his book.

And I was like, that was thought stopping, I was just like, nope, nope, I can't. But it was there in the back of my mind. And I don't know what it was, but something brought me back to it.

And at this point, I had moved back to the US. I came back during COVID, and I was living with my dad and my two aunts, who they're all believers in terror. At this point, my parents had divorced and my mom remarried to someone who's a minister in the terror thing.

So they're all in it. So they would say things and they would every Saturday because we keep Sabbath. They would play the, well, not tapes anymore, it's a YouTube now because we get technology.

So YouTube videos of past services and stuff. And we would sing and do our prayer service, we called it prayer service. That's what I grew up doing in New Jersey. And it was funny, you talked about tape churches.

I was like, yeah, I guess so, that's what we were doing. We had boxes and boxes of cassettes from back from the 80s, I think, because 80s, 90s, 2000s, every time we went to a meeting.

Or whatever, my mom, my dad would buy the tapes or the cassettes. So we'd watch those. And now I'm like, I've already started studying apologetics. I definitely disagree about the trinity and a couple of other things.

But now I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with this stuff, and I'm noticing the sort of spiritual pride, honestly, of my family, feeling like they're elite. They kind of turn their nose at anyone who's not following God the way that we're supposed to, that they think we're supposed to, right?

I got my ears pierced, which was like, oh, and then the nose ring, that was, oh, my God. This was kind of out of spite, to be honest. I know it's not a sin, and I'm just going to do it.

So slowly, I was like, yeah, I don't think this stuff is right, but I couldn't bring myself to really say anything bad about the man. you know, or I had no, you know, I didn't know what anything about him besides what I've been taught.

So finally I ordered that book. I don't know how long it was since I maybe was a year after I heard about it. And I start reading the book and yeah, that was that was kind of the nail in the coffin. It was like, I'd already been theologically getting away from it, but now I was like, wow, it was, he was leading a double life. You know, he had multiple children with different women. We knew, I knew he was married three times, but outside of that, you know, women he wasn't married to. And you know, I first was like, well, how do I know this stuff is true? I mean,

but as I'm reading it, I'm like, I mean, what reason would she have to lie about these things? Like, it's not like he's this famous person that you could get some clout for bringing down.

I'm like, nobody knows who this guy is. Like, what reason would she have to write a book about him and then lie about it? So I'm thinking these things, but I'm still thinking like, well, is it all true? So I'm still, you know, struggling within myself about it.

But I finished the book. And of course, now I'm researching about the book. I want to see what other people said about this or other people corroborating it. And I look for their reviews. And then of course, there's ex-terrelates, I guess, as they call themselves, I guess, you know, I didn't know that there was even a word for that. Yeah. Who were corroborating what she'd said. And I was like, oh, wow. And of course, there were people in the comments also defending him and saying, this is a lie. And he was a man of God. But now I'm like, I don't know, man, this, like, this looks

really, but I didn't say anything. Did not tell my family, no, you know, just keep it to myself, because I'm like, they're just going to say it's a lie. And I can't really prove otherwise.

I actually reached out to her to probably a little weird on Facebook. It's confirmed to me that, you know, these people, these other, these other children exist. Like, is there any way you can, you can like show me some. And I'm kind of embarrassed because I'm like, that was so weird.

But I was just like desperate for some kind of proof to like show my family. It's true. It's true. And, you know, after that, I kept searching more and I came across the court case that happened.

I don't know if you've heard of that. And now we were aware of it, you know, growing up, I knew that he went to jail, but it was always told as he was innocent. And, you know, that

someone, that basically he took the fall for someone kind of thing. Like, maybe somebody was supposed to be doing the taxes and they didn't do it correctly. And it wasn't his fault, essentially. So it was him being persecuted.

So we all thought he was a hero for having gone to jail. And he would talk about his time in jail and praying and preaching in the jail and everything. And so that was to hear that, I read the whole, the legal documents that I could find online.

And I was like, I don't see why I should doubt this. Can I really, all the money he had, I was shocked. Because we all thought, yeah, he had some land. But he was a millionaire.

I was like, no way. There's no way. Because he always seemed like so humble. And a guitar-shaped swimming pool, $29,000 or something like that, I was like, what? And so many, the people who followed him were poor, mostly.

And my mom, my dad, I would give my little change in the meetings, and yeah, that was a shock. And so even I was like, well, even if what he said is true and that somebody made some mistake with the taxes, he had a lot of stuff.

And then on top of that, it's saying he had an alias and that he, another name that he used to take out, to buy property and bank accounts. And so I was like, this is the kind of stuff you do if you're trying to hide something.

So is that all a lie? Like, there are documents. Can that be a lie? And so I'm thinking about all that. And finally, I came with a conclusion at like, no, I think it's true.

I think it's all true. And so that was sort of like, and this was, I don't know, maybe a year or two, maybe two years ago, when I was like, yeah, I think he really was a liar.

And it still was hard to reconcile that with all the other thing. Like, I was just like, well, I just, I can't deny the truth. And so, you know, that I guess was finally the end.

I would say of me being a follower of his, like the official end, even though for me it was a slow process, you know, very, very slow. I would say from the beginning, when I first started questioning his doctrine to now, it probably like six, seven years.

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It's crazy interesting whenever you're talking about all of this because I'm thinking about your guitar, shape, swimming pool. I'll never forget the shock when I saw that William Brannem had a swimming pool. After taught so strongly against having swimming pool parties and all of this stuff, and half of the people who are in the cult who come across the photos that I have online, they're just in complete shock and denial.

They say, no, this is not, this can't be his home, but my family visited this home. My family took the pictures of this swimming pool. So it's kind of a big deal. But where it gets really funny is that we would have disavowed David, and we did disavow David Terrell because we considered him to be a nut job who went extremist and he created a cult, which is true.

But here's the problem in it. The year in which he was commissioned by William Brannem, William Brannem's deity cult was starting to emerge. They were literally believing that William Brannem was God in the flesh.

They rejected the Trinity, but they accepted that this human hillbilly from Kentucky was literally the God in the flesh. This began to emerge very strongly in his treeport meetings. That was the very meeting that he's meeting with David Terrell.

He says something to the effect, and I'm paraphrasing greatly, but he says, my God, you're a prophet, you're ordained by God himself, and he gives some sort of a commission to David Terrell. Well, he's commissioning him at a time when many people believe that he is God.

So when he says this, when he says, my God, it's as though he is the God that's ordaining the prophet. And this is the new prophet for the age when William Brannem dies. Because when he dies, now you have a successor prophet who is ordained by Brannem.

But Terrell didn't realize is that he's not the only one that William Brannem did this to. There were other notorious figures. One of them was the infamous Moses David Berg, who had the happy hookers for Jesus, that went around and prostituted themselves to bring in new members to and recruit them.

That's the kind of people that this God was ordaining. And so there is no insight. There is no spiritual conveyance here. This is just a ridiculous guy pretending to be the deity. He taught it through a manifested sons of God framework.

he was the manifestation of God, but he was pouring out an additional manifestation into David Torell. So this is what created this weird cult that you were in. How far, so in your research, I know that you've dug into the David Torell cult. How far did you go with the connections?

Did you understand that William Branham was behind its creation? Yeah, well through your work. So I'd heard the name William Bran growing up, because Brother Torell would mention him many times in his messages. He would talk about, you know, Jack Co. A. Allen, you know. But William Branham, you know, like we all saw him as someone to be highly respected. And now I didn't know that Brother Torell was had like officially, I guess, ordained by him. If I asked older people who, you know, maybe my parents might have heard that, but it wasn't until I saw your website and I was like, oh, okay, I didn't know it was like

that close. Like I knew Brother Torell had gone to some of his meetings, but I didn't know that, yeah, he was directly commissioned by him. Because I think at that point, Brother Torell was already, kind of, I don't know if I should even call him brother, anyway, because I'm like, was he really a brother in Christ? Like David Torell, he was already a preacher at that point, I believe, but he wasn't calling himself a prophet.

So I really, and through the book, this actually helped a lot. So Donna Johnson, she writes that so it was really, she claims her mother, with whom he was having an affair, she really convinced him that he was a prophet. And she kind of pushed him to really take on that persona before he considered himself like an evangelist, a faith healer, but the gift of healing.

And that was his big thing, but the prophecy part and being the mouthpiece of God that came a little bit later. So in the, I think in the 60s, he was more so healing evangelist. But after that, I don't know when that happened with William Brannum. Do you know what year that was when he was officially ordained? If I understand it correctly, it was, I think it was 1960 when he was ordained by Brannum. And ordained by Brannum, I should clarify that. He was probably already an ordained minister. But the way Brannum would commission these people was a step above this. He

would say, you are ordained by God. And I think that's the exact phrase that I heard that was used with David Terrell. Yeah. So, um, yes, that sounds about right. He, he started off preaching and then he sort of morphed into the prophet of the age. And I believe that's really after Sir William Brannum died is really when he takes on that mantle, I guess you could say.

So to prepare for this, I actually was looking back at old videos and sermons just to refresh my memory. Because again, I listened to all this as a child, but now I can understand a lot better the connections with William Brannum and all that.

I will say the one big difference is just that David Terrell, as far as I know, I don't think he was a racist in the sense that he really wanted to keep everyone separate.

And like he was pretty famous infamous for actually having mixed meetings and was even attacked by the KKK a couple of times, they beat him up and stuff. So he, you know, supported integration in that way.

I don't know about interracial marriage so much, but he definitely tolerated it. I mean, my parents, my father's black, my mother's white, he married them. So I don't think he would have done that if he thought that was the evil thing that William Brannum preached.

Now, he did do it in the back of the church, though, because apparently some people weren't too happy about it. So I was little disappointed about that that he wouldn't stand up for that, but whatever.

So, but he married my parents. They were insistent that he'd be the one to marry them. So when it comes to, I guess, what did he preach? What did he believe? I have a lot of notes.

So if you want me to kind of go into that, I can, unless is there anything else from my personal story that you wanted to know or that you think the audience might want to know?

I am interested to hear what he preached and how he did it. I'm specifically interested to know if he's preaching the manifested sons of God, doctrine, because that's one of the core concepts of what emerged from Christian identity.

And I have identified other people who were not racist in the regards with black people and white, but they're teaching core Christian identity doctrines, which is heavily anti-Catholic, heavily anti-Jew. Things like this. I'm interested to hear if you taught some of that.

Yeah. So definitely manifested sons of God. So he said that basically we would be doing greater works than Jesus. He almost sounded like he was getting into Aryanism with the way he would talk about Jesus like, well, he had the Holy Spirit in him and so he was moving in power and all these things and we're going to have, if we fast and we pray, if we seek God, we'll have that same power that Jesus had.

So he taught that and the people of... affiliated with him, still teach that. Like I went to my mom's church and there was a visiting minister who used to travel with Brother Terrell and he was preaching the same thing, the same manifested sons of God.

And he's black. So as far as they know, it's not connected at all to anything racist. The idea is just that it's like we're gonna be super Christians, you know, it's like there's gonna be this elite group at the end who we're just gonna be like, you know, like Elijah, you know, saying it's not gonna rain or whatever, like all that kind of stuff.

We're gonna be moving in that power. So that's how I understood manifested sons of God, what that was. But he didn't tie it to any particular race or anything. Now anti-Catholic, yes, very, very, very much so.

He said that, so in Revelation, you know, forgot which church it was, but where there was that Jezebel, who was enticing the people to commit sexual sin. And he said, that's the Catholic church.

That, you know, great horror is the Catholic church. Jezebel, Catholic church. And I mean, he would preach whole sermons about that, you know. So the Catholic church was the anti-Christ, essentially. It was a lot of things, it was the horror, it was the Jezebel, it was everything.

Pretty much anything that you could throw negative against them, that's what it was. I'll never forget when I was reading Ezekiel, what is it, 16, I think it is. It talks about God's faithless bride.

And it talks about Jerusalem. How you have failed me, God is speaking to Jerusalem. I adorned you with the finest jewelry. I put a nose ring in your nose and keep your rings in your ears.

And I'm reading this thinking, wait a minute, earrings are supposed to be evil. Those rings are the devil. And then it says you are the, I can't remember the exact verbage, but it's basically the greatest of all harlots.

And that's Jerusalem. And so when you read Revelation in the book of Revelation in that light, and you start to understand that, you know, Jerusalem also sits on seven hills. And there are different ways to interpret this.

And there's this one passage in Revelation where it says, in the city where our Lord was crucified, well, that can't be Rome, that's not Rome. So I started reading these things and I'm starting to untangle what was programmed in my head.

They were taking verses completely out of context, trying to point it at the Catholic church. And I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church, but I also can't lie about them. I can't say that the city where our Lord was crucified is pointing to the Catholic church that doesn't work for me.

So I went through all of that too. What about dominionism? So every one of the sects that came after William Brannum that rose up with new leaders, they had... have different versions of how the end of days would play out and in some cases they wanted to forcibly rule was was david terrell one who wanted to forcibly rule no so he taught uh... it was really was all about the end times and like it was going to be like now you know that was coming back like it's like next year could be well couldn't technically because there had to be

the seventy years of tribulation but no the idea was so this was a big part of our childhood was you know hearing like we had to get out of the cities we needed to move into the country uh... get get land learn how to live off the land because the market the beast is coming there's not gonna be a rapture he was very very anti-rapture for the church uh... so we're gonna have to survive the tribulation and uh... the market the beast and all that stuff so you know people were bought you know selling stuff leaving all the cities and

you had to get away from the coast because in the california it's gonna fall into the ocean which apparently brilliant brown said i didn't realize he said that first uh... and that you know nuclear bombs you know we're gonna be dropped on the cities and uh...

you know he's preaching this in the you know two thousand right this is not he was he had been preaching this now i realize way back since the beginning but he was still preaching that you know i think he said get fifty miles away from a small city a hundred miles away from a big one because of the blast radius or something so and we were living in New Jersey pretty close to new york so my mom was like freaking out and my dad he was less um...

he would never say he rejected brother terror but he he kind of wanted to do his own thing a little bit like he used to break the Sabbath sometimes you know he would kind of you know my mom was more like oh my gosh like what are we doing we have to store up food she had like i don't know how many fifty a hundred gallons of water in the basement she had boxes and boxes of cans and you know trying to do what she could to try to survive you know the end time so

so the idea was to separate from society the idea was to get into a blessed area which was i guess a place that he said was a blessed area and they were scattered throughout the south you know and to get your own land basically homestead and you know wait at the end of days so there was definitely no uh...

you know we were not encouraged to participate in society like that you know to get into government or do this and no it's like it's all going to help basically you know this is what's going to happen you know the catholic church and the pope and this is going to happen and they're going to start killing Christians and executing us and all type of stuff and um... you know it's going to be armageddon basically so we just have to try to survive and uh... wait for Jesus to come back so that was how we were raised very much the same way that we were you lived in

you sent fear of the whole world being obliterated and they, you know, it's tied back to the communist scare of the 60s. That's where all this came. Branum had all these recordings. And so anybody who indoctrinates their brain with this nonsense, they live in constant fear that we need to live in these bomb shelters. This is coming. And what's interesting is now that you actually see for the first time in decades, you see Russia flexing their military might. Everybody who's in that mindset, they're in complete fear. They're mortified that this is going to happen.

It doesn't bring a peace to you. Like other Christians have a peace that Jesus is going to protect them. This group doesn't. You have, you live in constant fear. And honestly, and you could get this out of Hassan's book as well. It's the fear that keeps people captive. So this fear hopes bind it all together. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, well, you know, God is warning you. So if you die in this, it's on you. You know, like he told you to get out of the city. You know, he told you to learn to live off the land. So when the mark of the beast comes and you can't buy or sell,

you can start to death. You know, like it's going to be on you. So there's pressure, you know, for you to get things figured out. And, you know, so you don't think long term. And that's one of the huge unfortunate effects of this thinking, you know, my parents did not save up money. They didn't even buy a house. You know, we always rented my whole life. And like my mom, she gave her whole retirement away to this man. I don't know how much money exactly. I know tens of thousands.

Um, my dad has no retirement either because they all thought it's going to be over. They're not going to retire. Um, I didn't think I would probably get married or have kids, you know, and I was pretty upset about that as a kid. I was like, no, I want to have kids at least before the end of the world.

And then, but then it's like, well, you don't want to have kids at that time. So I was almost like, I felt guilty for wanting to do those things because well, it's going to be so bad that maybe I shouldn't be trying to, you know, get married and have kids and stuff. So it definitely felt like everything is imminent. And, uh, you know, so you just look around at people, these other Christians are like, what are they doing? You know, and like, they're going to be swept up in the, in the, in the, the, whatever. And so it creates, like, you know, sun said, the us versus them. It's

huge because you're this small group who knows what's going to happen. And everyone else is like, it's like they're walking off a cliff and you're the only one who sees the danger coming. And, um, so, you know, you feel very isolated. I felt very isolated growing up. I actually went to public school. So with my parents didn't want me to.

but they couldn't afford to homeschool me. So I went to public school and there's no one I knew who was like me, just my brother, I guess. So you feel like, I can't really save these things to my friends.

You know, you guys aren't real Christians because I would tell my mom, that like, well, so-and-so say they're a Christian. Like, well, they're not really not like we are. You know, it's like, so you feel very isolated.

You feel very, I don't remember. Ooh, and if you heard that, thunder. Yeah. You feel like, and I didn't like it. I think some people feel special. Maybe my parents felt special. I didn't feel special.

I felt like, why did I have to be born into this? Even as a kid, I remember thinking like, because my parents would say, well, you know, some people they don't know any better.

But you know the truth. And so, you know, you have to act, you know, you're held to a higher standard. And I'd be like, man, I wish I didn't know the truth. So I could not be held to the higher standard and go and do fun stuff that other people do.

Like, go bowling or like the movies was a sin. You know, a worldly entertainment. You couldn't go to sports games. Everything was on a Saturday and Saturday's Sabbath. And so we can't do birthday parties.

And holidays were bad because they're pagan. No Christmas, none of that stuff. Everything was like, it seemed like all the fun was sucked out. So it's like, but I'm supposed to be grateful. And you know, let's say it was, I'd struggle with a lot of guilt because of all that.

Because I was like, oh, I'm sorry, God, I shouldn't say that. Or I shouldn't think that I should be grateful, you know, that I'm whatever. So I don't know if you use felt that way as well, growing up like you're supposed to be grateful, but you kind of wish you didn't, you didn't know all this hidden knowledge or whatever.

You know, I think there's part of me that did, but people who are so deeply, deeply programmed in their head, they try to convince themselves that they don't want those things. So I lived a life where I just simply didn't want a lot of them.

But at the same time, my family was what I call cult royalty. We were allowed to do things that other families I'm learning could not do. For instance, I also went to public school.

There was a large number of people who were some of them are even uneducated and or self-educated in the cult. And I went to public school up until I graduated high school. And then later I went to college though it was strongly frowned upon.

But because of who I was, we got to do some of the things that other people did not. Now the bowling, I'll never forget playing my first bowling game. We were, I'd been married for, gosh, I want to say it's like five years, maybe seven years.

I'd never ever been bowling because this is the devil's game. And that's how we were taught. And the first time I rolled the ball down, I actually won. played before and I won the game with four people and they the other three of the others had played and or two of the others had played and they were shocked like you've never played and I said no I've never played this we weren't allowed to and I realized there's nothing wrong with this game so I started digging into the history I wanted to know why why this

was outlawed and it turns out that this was part of another broad fundamentalist craze they they thought it would bring heaven down to earth if they condemned the bowling halls so anyway there I could go off in my story but this is your story if you could go back in time and give some advice to yourself when you were going through this and you want it all of these things what advice would you give yourself well I would say like you know read your Bible and trust the Bible over what someone else tells you you know and another

thing would be it's not wrong for you to want to be like other kids like I was always taught that that was a wrong desire to have to want I mean it became unhealthy like I wanted to fit in I was that kind of kid I didn't want to be different I didn't want to be set apart I didn't want to you know my parents would make it seem like it's a great thing like but that's nothing wrong with that is because I was I was lonely I was isolated you know I wasn't allowed to hang out with other kids I went to school and I went home you know the only

other kids I hung out with was some cousins who were also in the same cult and we would see them when we would do our prayer services you know every every Saturday because in New Jersey there was no church related to Brother Terrell so and my parents were not going to go to any other church so we would do our own stuff at home so yeah I would say yeah like it's okay to you know want to relate to other kids but I guess you know one thing that came out of that was I really

focused on reading and writing and art and it's like solo pursuits and I got pretty good at it so I'm like well you know I studied art in college actually and now I'm a teacher so you know not being so social it allowed me to focus on other skills but it still affects me like I still have a tendency to be isolated like I've go to a church but I still don't really want to hang out like there's just something in me that's like I feel more comfortable by myself but I have to I'm kind of fighting to push past that and be okay with with that you know emotional

intimacy so many things that um you know like my parents were not focused on that they're focused on me being obedient me and my brother Not our emotional well-being, you know feelings didn't matter like What you know so All of that I'm having to learn You know, I'm like I'm I'm learning how to be a healthy human being now um, and You know I know I went further than the question you've asked me, but Yeah, it's community is good and You know being isolated is is not good. It's not good at all. Yeah, there's there's a lot

To learn after you've been in one of these groups and I sympathize with everything that you've said I struggle with many of the same struggles and many of the same freedoms I have trouble adjusting to because that's not what we had. That's not what we did How how would you if you were to describe in a few sentences?

How would you describe the difference between the church you attend now and the church that you left? Yeah, so um The big thing that are The first thing that came to mind is the leadership structure, and I know you've talked a lot about this on your channel Because David Terrell his ministry was a for Terry, right?

He's the top no one is holding him accountable and even with the smaller churches They all kind of follow the same thing. So there's no board, you know, there's no Group that votes on stuff. It's just the pastor Whereas here, you know, the pastor like there's many services where he won't even preach He'll just have people, you know, gift testimonies or it's like he's not Like the most important person in the church. That's not the the impression that I get you know I get the impression that he he values what all of us have to to offer like spiritually

Not just, you know, we're not just like little sheep who are helpless like we actually can edify each other Whereas with the way I grew up it was like no, there's the man of God and then there's other men of God, right?

but there's there's a hierarchy and You know, you're a lowly church person. You could never You know, maybe you can give testimony, you know, they would yeah people would get testimonies, but You're never going to be able to really edify the the man of God like you know It's so a big thing that I've noticed is just more equality with with the church Like that doesn't mean you don't have any structure, but I just I really appreciate how It's not a one-man show, you know That's that's a big and biblically sound as that was the first thing I was looking for was

They biblically sound and then you know with that the structure itself those are two big things for me Yeah, those are big things I had a person who recently was asking me they're trying to bait me I think an email, but they're saying how can you tell if it Church is biblically sound.

And how do you answer that, right? Well, we'll read your Bible. All you have to do is read your Bible, and you can tell if it's biblically sound. But when you're in one of these groups that has manipulated you to think that you have to go to your spiritual authority to understand the Bible, you can't determine for yourself is a biblically sound.

So it turns, it's a self-fulfilling problem that they create with this. But anyway, I feel like we could talk for hours to you and I are so much alike. And everything, we basically came out of the same cult, but two different flavors of it.

Yeah, thought we were significant. But we really were. Yeah, it's such a crazy thing. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, and I thank you. And if you want to know more about Brother Terrell, I have some more things I didn't get a chance to get into, but I can also ask around as well.

And I would love to be connected to anyone, if they want to people who reached out to you. Because I don't know anybody else who's left this group. Just me and I guess my brother.

But I would love to be connected to any people who are still Christian, especially if they don't have to be. But I haven't met anyone. So if anyone would love to reach out or give me your contact info, whatever, I can give you my email, I would love to talk and answer any questions if I can and learn from them as well.

Awesome. Well, if you're interested in connecting with Victoria, you can contact me on William-Brandom.org's contact page. And I'll put you in contact with Victoria. So thank you again so much for doing this.

Thank you, it was a pleasure. It's kind of surreal. Because like I said, I watched so many of your videos and now thank you so much for what you've done. Like I said, you've helped me connect so many dots.

And I just want to contribute to that in any way I can. Absolutely. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org.

From more about the dark side of the new Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Thanks for watching. I'll see you next time. Bye.