Seven Mountain Mandate or Idolatry? Dominionism’s High Places

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Laura Lynn Tyler Thompson, the host of Laura Lynn Live.

Laura, it's good to connect with you again and to talk through some of this history. I'm finding, as I'm going through it with you, it's a bit difficult because I'm bringing back memories of my research from years and years ago.

And so that memory we recall, we had a conversation about this. It's a little bit difficult, so this time I have put some notes up on my screen to help me go through this, but the history that we're going through is it is a fascinating history that not many people are aware of, and it ties directly to the things we're seeing today.

In the news, I'm sure you have seen it. Some of the things happening with Sean Foyte and some of the things that are happening with the, oh, there's a couple of Branamites that have been arrested and Vancouver for outrageous charges that they're doing things against people and churches, and you can trace all of these routes all the way back.

Sean Foyte obviously wasn't a Branamite, but he's teaching the manifested sons of God theology and his worship style. Everything was built on this platform that was created. And if you understand the platform, you can, like the Bible said, you can see the fruit, you can see what kind of treat is by the fruit that it bears.

Well, and the thing about Sean Foyte, I mean, so he put out a, he put out an ex post that basically is calling anyone who's in disagreement with him, according to the word, you know, that we're basically listening to demons.

And, you know, oh, they said these types would come and that we are associating ourselves with the LGBTQ mod mob because we don't appreciate what he's doing. I mean, he's shown up in Canada.

He gas lights the LGBTQ all across North America. Of course, Antifa shows up because of the nasty things he says. People are calling him out and he's a difficult sort. I mean, Bethel fired him years ago.

And so he's got this. But he does have a whole lot of people that they just, you know, they believe we're fighting for spiritual, you know, freedom in Canada. and whatnot. When all kinds of people come to Canada and have worship services or concerts, churches meet in the park, a church this last Sunday. They met in the park in Surrey, baptized 85 people. It's a great church in Surrey, British Columbia. Thousands of people go there.

I think it's Baptist in nature. And, you know, so none of this nonsense that's being put out. So I have taken some heat for speaking out because I actually think that gaslighting sinners is nothing Jesus would have ever done. And I actually think that making profit is what Jesus spoke about, that you make profit from the gospel. And Paul spoke about it extensively as well. So you're right. Like these roots to the latter reign, he hangs out with, you know, Art Luciae and the gang from Canada. So there is like an entire den of these people that are

embedded into, you know, what we're talking about into the roots and the outfall of what came from the latter reign. So, you know, having said that, I'm glad that I love the Lord, that God met me in the midst of some of this, some of the difficulties. And I do continue to say that, that God still responded to my, my pure heart, wanting Jesus as a young person in the midst of some chaos and improper teaching and, and spiritual abuse. Nonetheless, God found me and God found you.

And that's an amazing thing. It's such a crazy world that we live in that people would think that you can attack people who are struggling with whatever is the sin and that your attack is justified. And actually, that is one of the points that I was going to bring up in this podcast because as you know, we're going to be talking about the Seven Mountains mandate today. Well, the history behind it, if you understand that history, you understand why Christians act like this. If you're outside of this movement looking in, which we have a lot of

viewers who are, they're curious, some people are just researchers, they're trying to understand, what is this movement? What is this mass? If you're outside looking in and you're Christian, a Christian is looking to what Jesus did on the cross for them, not what they can do to further the kingdom and to push their way into heaven, basically. But with what this, what this was originally, it's beyond that. It's actually how do you fight your way into heaven? Because this was war. This was literally when you think of spiritual warfare today, they did not know whenever all of this theology

was emerging that it would become the spiritual warfare that it was today. They were just emerging from the years right after World War II and they thought maybe it's a physical war. So Joel's army, all of that...

rhetoric was literally that we may have to take arms and fight because the battle for Armageddon is here. It entered into the theology. Well, after all of that dissipated, it kind of morphed and changed into what we see today. So you have people who go up to mountains and they was talking to a guy yesterday. There were people who were going to intersections in these, I don't know what you call them, these grid lines of coordinates around the globe saying that in these points, in these coordinates, is where the demons are hiding. So we need

to go chant or preach or whatever it is we're doing. And it all comes back to this root. So the deeper we go into the seven mountains, I think people might understand this a bit more.

Sure. And I was listening to someone very well known in Canada talking about these portals, you know, you get in a portal. And like these are the Christian leaders who some would respect if they don't really investigate and all of this stuff. So I'm looking forward to hearing, you know, John, I have, I just have to say I've learned so much from your podcast. And people that are writing me are saying that what we're talking about is setting them free. They're finally understanding the roots of it and why it was so confusing and what was wrong and improper theology. And they're getting free. And so I do appreciate

that. And you having been right in with the Brannamites are the perfect person to discuss this. You have extreme inside knowledge. And it takes a lot of courage to do what you do. And once again, I'm very grateful. So tell, tell us all about it, really. Like, you know, we're, we're having a deal with the current day environment of the Christian church. We're facing it right now with Sean Foitt in Canada. More and more places now shutting down him coming, which is a bad precedent. And all we don't appreciate the way that he's doing it. But all of this has a background. It does have a background. And whenever, like

I said, we have people who weren't in this who are on the outside looking in. And when they hear the term seven mountains, their mind immediately goes to Revelation 17. There's a passage that says, and here's the mind that has wisdom. There are seven heads, which are seven mountains on which the woman's siteth. And if you read that passage and you understand that passage and then try to turn it into this dominionism thing that is militant. And, you know, Joel's army or whatever manifested sons of God, theology you want to throw at it. It's very difficult to understand how it came to that level. But there's a few

points in history that you have to understand to learn how it became what it did. One of those is British Israelism. So, earlier today, I sent you a couple of photographs from a book. Yeah. The book was written by Euryah.

Smith of the Seventh Day Adventists. There's a picture that is drawn in it. I don't know if you noticed this, but it's this beast with land-like horns. It's actually referring to the beast that is referred to, and I think it's Revelation 13. These two passages from Revelation were defoundation for what my religion was in the Brannamites. Revelation 13, we believed, was the woman. It was describing the woman, and it was supposed to be the way Brannam praised it is, you can read symbolically that this woman is the United States. And so where it gets interesting is Brannam

claimed that it was divine revelation that came to him by God, and yet we have uncovered pretty much every book that he had in his library, one of which was this book that I sent you. And so the picture of the beast is actually sitting on the map of the United States. So the beast in this image from Uriah Smith coming out of the United States. With British's realism, this was a common belief. They believed that they could map it to basically to the United States, that it would somehow merge with the seven mountains and the woman that sits on her, which many believe to be

Rome. And then when Christian identity started to form in the, I think it was the 1930s, if I remember correct, 1930s or 1940s, the protocols of the learned elders of Zion is the second thing that you have to understand. This was a book that was published and printed throughout the Christian identity circles claiming that the false Jews, the ones who aren't the United States and aren't great Britain. The false Jews are going to invade. They're going to take over the financial systems, the banking systems, the religion. They're going to sway our families. They're going basically

these seven mountains are going to be changed by these false Jews. And they have invaded and they believed that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was seated at the throne from which the beast was emerging. And symbolically, if you understand the passage from Revelation, the lamb-like horns was a symbol for something that looked meek and gentle, but was yet a beast. So at the core of this theology, which we'll get into later in the podcast, the core theology that was presented was that United States has been invaded. The beast is going to emerge from the United States.

Joel's army began to form. We need to fight the beast. We need to conquer these seven mountains so that theology kind of emerged, that this was where the seven mountains would emerge.

And so this is the theology that we're hearing from Lance Wall now and many different, you know, believers across the United States and Canada. Absolutely. It is, it's very calm. I go to it quite a bit. I describe how it emerged in my book, Christian Identity to the NAR, but because that foundation was so prevalent, especially in the early years of the Laterane, as this was spreading worldwide, they have one of Brannum's publications, which became actually Christ for the Nation's Institute, which trained all the deliverance ministers. Gordon Lindsay, William Brannum, and Jack Moore were publishing this magazine called The Voice of Healing. And in the

Later years, the years that most people are familiar with, it's basically a good way to advertise your ministry and become a traveling evangelist. And there's hundreds of pages of men who saw angels, men who had visions, men who did miraculous things, etc. But if you go back to the very, very early years, you'll find in 1948, for example, they have these countdowns of when Armageddon is going to come. And they were literally looking for the end of days, associated with this and what was not said in that magazine, the conferences that Gordon Lindsay was attending were some of them are Christian identity conferences,

with that theology that the end of days is coming is also the notion that we're going to have this end of days battle. And we need to be prepared for the battle. When Sharon Orphanage was beginning to form, it's really weird how it formed.

It looked more like a military base with an airplane hanger and there were students trying to understand how do we bring forth this Joe's army. And they were meeting and that's how the how the latter rain revival emerged. How do we how do we bring the manifested sons of God power within us because this great battle is coming and we need to be able to fight that battle.

Wow. John, do you remember these things like when you were young? Do you remember this kind of teaching actually being spoken in your church and with, you know, underneath your family's attendance and all of that? I don't know if you're, I know your grandfather, right? For some people just watching, your grandfather was sort of a right-hand person to to Brannum. Is that correct? My grandfather was one of Brannum's deacons and he took over the church with Brannum, so Brannum's sons basically led the church after William Brannum died. My grandfather and the sons basically were running the church after he died, so.

Grandfather was close, my father and my aunts and uncles were commonly in Brannem's home because they were, my aunts and uncles were best friends with Brannem sons and daughters. So our family was right there in the mix.

Wow. As far as memories, it's really odd and awkward. I think I mentioned to this to you offline, but I have a lot of trouble sometimes sitting through a sermon because I'll be sitting there and the sermon may be good and uplifting, but then that one verse comes out.

And the last time it hit me, it actually wasn't the text of the verse, but just simply the book, the chapter number and the verse number, when that was mentioned, all of that programming went off in my head.

Some of it is militant, some of it is not. Brannem, Brannem was not into the form of dominion, dominionism that exists today. I think he died before that began to emerge, but he laid all of the foundation from which it all developed.

So when are we talking? Do you think that we begin to see this kind of thing? And it wasn't always called by this name. It's just sort of a teaching that begins of basically the rising, I guess, and how we should in all spheres be leaders.

And I listened to one guy this week because I've just really been examining how, after you explained that it was a political movement that Brannem was actually heading, that made so much sense as to why so many things now being done in the United States.

Oh, let's have an ester conference and we'll meet at the Capitol and it'll be so great, we'll just all celebrate women. Oh, it just happens to be when there's this election going on and we'll tie everything into how we have a political movement to seize the political mountain, you know?

Absolutely, and it all goes back to, I think I mentioned this in the last podcast, Brannem's mentor and the one who ordained him as a minister was the second in command for the Ku Klux Klan at the time in which the Klan, after the Klan had been somewhat disbanded, the Indiana Klan became the largest Klan in the nation and they set the precedent in, when was it?

It was, I think it was the year 1925, somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 Klan members marched on Washington. And when you think of this in today's world, the first thing that comes to your mind when I say that word is you're thinking, this is a white-robed people who are against black people.

But that's because Hollywood has changed the meaning of what this organization was. From its inception, it was created as... as a Christian organization, and they wanted to invade churches, and they did. The capital, the headquarters for the, for the clan in Indiana, which again was the largest in the nation, was actually held in a church that called the Kadel Tabernacle in Indianapolis Indiana.

From this church, they invaded several other churches, and they were playing clan movies, they were coming, and they would hold clan picnics after churches. This was a religious organization, but it was also a terrorist organization at the same time.

After the sixties really changed this, the clan kind of went underground until the sixties. After the sixties, whenever all of the hate riots happened, it became sort of a black eye to have a clansmen in your church.

So all of this went underground, but what happened is the ideology remained. While the white supremacy got pushed out, the ideology that they had created in the churches, that remained in the churches, and it began to develop and fester into what we see.

Okay, so that explains so much, because I wonder like it is so like not cool or acceptable or appropriate to be associated with the Clue Clux clan today. So you're helping me to understand that, I mean at one point, it was just sort of very accepted and all of that, but then when they got exposed more, I guess, they go underground, but the remains of that, the belief system carried through it.

And so that's why some people in understanding this, you can see that when they attack some of the Christian, you know, the way that Christians do things, they will bring elements of this up.

And I've always wondered like they'll call us Nazis or something like that. And then I'll be like, well, why are they calling us Nazis? You know, basically I love the Jews, I am not a Nazi.

Why do what is the link? But really it's kind of tied in in that way. Absolutely. And it's again, it goes back to the foundation. If you're a Christian and your foundation is the gospel, what Jesus did on the cross for you, your foundation is such that you don't, you don't want to fight.

You're meek and humble, you want to, you want to persuade people to be like you, not forced people to be like you. But the clan's version of Christianity was not this, they not only did they want to force people to conform to what they believed was Christianity.

If you did not, they would go to all kinds of devilish tactics to enforce it. They would threaten you, they would meet you under the cover of night. People in today's world can't fathom how difficult it would be.

When a whole town is somewhat sympathetic to the clan, I guess, is the best way to put it, but many members who you don't know it might be your neighbor It might be the mayor. It might be the policeman. You don't know who as a member So you can't outright speak against these things and the ideology that they're pushing is that that you must conform Otherwise, we will come down hard against you. That was the version of Christianity that was spreading and And again William Brannum who spearheaded the latter-rain post-World War II healing revival was mentored by the Second and Command

But this more than that. This was the person who wrote those Christian by-laws He admitted in I think it was 1960 During some hate riots. He admitted that he had written the by-laws for this and this is William Brannum's mentor So Brannum is mentored in a very horrific version of I'm hesitant to use the word the gospel But that's what he called it and that's what this man was preaching However, if you read the Bible and you understand what is the gospel. It's two separate completely different things Wow, so if we're to fast forward to today. We've got the Seven Mountain Mandate

That is being taught by very well-known leaders in the Christian church and do you feel that it's not

It shouldn't be taught in the way that it's being taught so I I saw one you know seven mountain presentation where we want to be taking the tops of the mountains so get involved in Media get involved in politics get involved in business the arts, you know the seven mountains So get involved there so that we're having impact in the world Is there a problem with this thinking that you can make succinct?

Knowing that Malachi says I think it's Malachi. I remember seeing it, you know that in the last days the mountain of the Lord will be the highest mountain so Well, how do you see all that John?

It's multifaceted. So here's where it gets complicated to explain and to form an opinion that is presentable, but I'm gonna try Some of the things that are being pushed I may agree with some of the agendas that are that Some of the agendas are actually pretty good agendas. I'll say it like that however the implementation is dangerous and And the best example I can use is the example of the media. So when the clan was Or it was exposed as a terrorist organization in the mid-20s They had to rebrand and and give themselves a new face one of the ways in which they did this was they I'm

using the word mountain loosely, they did not use the word mountain. But one of the ways that the clan did this was they attacked the mountain of entertainment. They wanted to come in, present themselves, like you said at the top.

They wanted to, they created, there were clan studios that were producing clan movies that were somewhat healthy, somewhat good, but with the clan twist. And some of those movies were actually played in churches around the nation.

So you had clan sympathetic churches playing clan morals of movies that did not include any of the things that they said were evil from Hollywood. That word evil, let's take a step back and examine that from today's world versus then.

The things that we consider to be evil in today's world with regards to what's happening in Hollywood are highly politicized, usually about, like you mentioned, LGBTQ earlier. Usually it's what is the hottest topic in political religion today.

That's what they will focus on in the entertainment and say, we don't want this in the entertainment. Well, back in the 20s, this wasn't the issue. In the 20s, it was the Catholics. They did not want the Catholics to invade the churches.

And so they were presenting the Catholics as the bad guys and they wanted to just eradicate any public view of this sort of thing. Fast forward to the 60s. It was more about interracial marriage.

We don't want to show mixed, they would call it mixed races or hybrids or mongrels. We do not want mongrels in our television. And so we're going to fight the television industry. We're going to make the Christians not watch these things because if they do, their morals will be decayed.

So back then, there were many people who were Christian who might have seen this as a good thing. In today's world, we see that as pure racism. It's something that's bad. But what they have done is they have taken what is the politicized sin for the era by the political mob of Christians that are trying to invade this so-called mountain?

What about all the other sins? I love a good murder mystery. And murder is evil. I mean, it's purely evil. So I'm watching a murder mystery. What if they were to come in and say, OK, we're going to eradicate all sin from television?

Now there's no more murder mysteries. People who are watching television would completely revolt. They would not want this because they've not really followed it through to the logical conclusion of what could happen if they were to take over these mountains.

Instead, the way that, when I read the Bible, the way that Jesus presented himself and conducted himself, he sat with sinners. He showed them the better way. And his way of, if you called in an agenda, which is, I don't think I would use that word, the way that he- presented himself and pushed himself with such that they wanted to be like him, not that they were forced to be like him. So that makes a lot of sense even with what we're seeing. Like, I'm alarmed because even right now we have a top entertainer in the Christian realm

that is pushing what is bad, what we don't, we don't want all these, but what about all the other sins? And really did Jesus ever come saying, you know, you know, this and this and this, he always had a problem with the religious leaders, right? He wasn't arguing with sinners about their sin. He was asking them to come to him. He was asking them to, you know, to make him their Lord and forgiving sins and telling them to go their way and sin no more and asking never begging, but asking if they would receive him. Jesus was never going after the sinners in the world. He

was going after the sinners in the church when he would have these arguments. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation

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On behalf of William-Brannum Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support. I think I mentioned in either the last we did or the one before. There's a passage where Paul is saying, don't let those people come and attack you for eating food that sacrifice to idols or what you drink. If you compare what's happening today to what Paul is saying there, they're literally saying that we can't watch television if there are people that we do not agree with on the television set. And they're attacking you in the same way that Paul is saying,

don't do this. It's literally violating what Paul is saying in that letter. But to more to the point, so whenever you're talking about the way that Jesus asked the sinners to conform, I had this guy who I'm not going to mention his name, but relatively famous podcaster.

who was asking me to come on his show, I guess it was last year. And in between the time that he had asked me and the time when my schedule was, I had a person who came on who had been in

Robert's Leardin's church, I was trying to recall his name. The God's Generals guy, and the guest on my show was a person who Robert's Leardin was trying to cure of homosexuality, very violently cure him.

In fact, according to what I understand, he was physically assaulted. And so this was my guest on the show, and this was a situation where the homosexuality was being described in the past, not in the present.

The person who invited me to his podcast says, because you had a person who was in the past, the homosexual, you can't come on my show. And I'm going to come down very hard against you or something to this effect.

And I get to thinking about it afterwards. I don't fault him because he's in a system where he thinks that this is the way that Jesus would act. But that's not the way Jesus acted, Jesus set with prostitutes.

And he said, I show you a better way come to me. And he did not attack the sinners like this, nor did he attack the others who were sitting in helping as he did.

This is not the way the gospel is, but what they have and what they understand is not the gospel that you read in the Bibles. It is this militant gospel where you are either with us or you're against us, and it doesn't matter if we go into guerrilla warfare.

We can do whatever it takes to further that agenda, even if it means violating some of the Bible code. Yes, violating some of the Bible code, and that's happening kind of with these ministers

that are trying to get reactions so that they've got the whole world looking and they're violating the Bible code in order to get more media, more recognition, and so in a way, it's totally fitting in with all of that.

And the beauty of who Jesus is and how I believe that you have found him now and how I see him is a very, very loving God. And the word of God is so clear.

We don't need to have another teacher. There's a scripture that even says that I think it's in 1 John or something, but it says, you, we are taught by the Holy Spirit, and we've been led so astray.

I mean, we recently played this clip of Jesse Duplantis. He is telling a, you know, gobsmacked, eye-opened jaw-dropping crowd that ooze and ahs at the appropriate time. He's telling them how he went to heaven and how he met Abraham, had a conversation, what they were wearing.

You know, it's like, oh, help me, Lord, you know? And all of the sheeples are just all about, and these famous people now, the whole thing is that they've been on trips to heaven.

That obviously worked for someone who maybe had a near-death experience. They got famous, they came a household name, and then everyone is going on trips to heaven, you know? An astral projection is being promoted by Bethel, basically.

Everyone lie here, we're gonna try to leave our bodies and go to heaven. And so now these famous big wig pastors, who people just send their money to, are telling these fantastical stories, and the sheep are just like, how?

You know, and I'm just sitting there going, what, like wake up, slap yourself out and become so reminded about what's happening. You mentioned the Holy Spirit, and that's actually one of the main points that I have in my notes here to talk through, because to understand why the Seven Mountains' mandate is so wrong, and to understand how it emerged from the history that I gave at the beginning, you have to understand the role of the Holy Spirit in this movement, which isn't the same as the role of the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

Jesus said, the Father will send you the helper, He'll lead you and guide you into the spirit of truth. There are many passages I'm paraphrasing, because there are many passages that talk about the Holy Spirit that is sent to lead you and guide you.

Branemism, which, this was not unique to Branem, he plagiarized almost everything, but what Branemism taught to the movement that emerged and became charismatic, was deeply rooted in this manifested sons of God theology, and you have to really understand deeply what this means.

The version of Jesus that Branem taught, in order to elevate himself to a superior status among all of his people, was that Jesus was a mortal human being, and that he was the vessel from which could receive this manifestation of God.

Branem said that Jesus was fully a man whenever he died, because you can't kill a God. The Holy Spirit left him, left his body, and so he is basically turning Jesus into this mortal human being that is not deity that can become a manifested son of God, so that whenever he's describing his manifested sons of God theology, he is the ultimate manifested son of God among all of the other leaders in the movement, who were lesser manifested sons of God.

He's the superior, they are the lesser. What people don't really understand is that this actually caught on. Many of the movements we have identified have tried to cover up their histories, and they've done very good job at it.

But the movements that emerged did believe this. I think I mentioned last time T.L. Osborne at William Branham's memorial service said that this was, and I'm paraphrasing, this was the manifested son of God for us today.

This was the Jesus man, and he openly said, you may think I'm sacrilegious for saying this. He realized that what he was saying was absurd, but that's what he said. Now, this is the memorial service at a full gospel convention, a full gospel businessmen's convention.

Members of the full gospel businessmen included people like Kenneth Hagen, who did work with T.L. Osborne. You had numerous people who emerged and became leaders in the charismatic movement. What you don't find, you can find T.L. Osborne saying this, what you don't find is a single person present at that memorial service, and big names were there, not a single person who's denouncing him for his heresy, because the movement by and large believed that this was a manifested son of God.

Where I'm headed with this is, if you understand what this means, it means that this person was a deity, and he's the one giving us the spoken word, the ramah, however you want to call it.

We don't need a Holy Spirit, we have this human. And the movement has created this notion that these super apostles are coming with the manifestation of God, so that they can form an army, and the army can be very militant, and we're going to eventually take control because we have the manifestants, we have Jesus's, each person who's in this movement as a leader, there are Jesus.

I mean, let that sink in everyone. We have people across North America that support the Brannemite theology, that still revere William Brannem, and we've been able to show that some of the miracles and things that took place didn't even happen.

It was a blazing lie, and he traveled with this kid who could levitate. And then at his death, we have people like T.L. Osborne, the revered T.L. Osborne, with Kenneth Hagen, I don't know if Kenneth Hagen was there, but we have T.L. Osborne saying something as crazy as that this man had some special powers.

We had had a visitation from some deity. He was bestowed this special power, and none of it's true. None of that is true. So if we allow that, then John, I think why you weren't.

or so heavily, is that if this continues, then there's the next deity. Well, who is that? Is one of the great apostles and prophets that were, you know, saying are so incredible today that they are somehow special?

And then they kind of deny it if you put them on the spot about it, but then in the teaching it kind of comes out. Absolutely. And some of these alleged manifested sons of God included Jim Jones, who took his people to Jonestown, Guyana, and committed mass suicide, believing that they could enter themselves into heaven.

Whenever you have this type of religion that empowers a leader to have such complete authoritarian control over the people, some of those leaders may be good people, and they may actually help people lead them to the gospel.

But there's no rails around, it's a train going down the track with no rails. You don't know where it's headed. Is the person going to be a good person and I've given them full control, or are they going to kill me and I've given them full control?

That's the type of framework that was laid by this movement. And the fact that it is becoming more and more militant as time goes on, it scares me because I can see in Washington, I can see what people are doing.

We have, I think I've mentioned it in the book, but there are people connected to this theology who are in the charismatic movement, tied to people who are in the, like the, the moonies organization.

The guy with the AK-47, the golden AK-47, you can see them, you can see people jointly holding conventions with him to take over Washington because the agenda is the same. They don't care that it is a cult that they're associating with, but the agenda is the same.

And it goes back to the point of like Gorilla warfare. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter the way in which I achieve my goal. As long as I achieve it, God's going to look down on me with favor because I am attacking for his kingdom.

That's really the way that they view the gospel. And when you say more militant, John, I mean, you're really, you've got eyes and ears on the pulse of the nation. And because of what you know, you're able to spot it.

Like, you know, when somebody has done drugs, they're able to see somebody who takes drugs. You see all the little signs, you can tell by their pupils dilated, you know, things that somebody who hasn't been so heavily involved in something like that wouldn't even be able to see.

So when you're seeing this and these people are very, they're very arrogant, actually. They're very proud. There's an ego-tism that is associated with thinking yourself. special, and then they're leading, and they're accumulating a massive amount of wealth from the people that are donating and becoming followers.

The bigger that the internet gets, the bigger their power and voice. This is the rise recently of the podcasters who basically are saying, no, not so fast. Actually, we've got a good following, and maybe it's less than yours, but we're actually going to start outing some of the fallacy and the heresy that you're doing.

Then, you've got people that are behind us, podcasters, like I have the group that wants, that I have my designation with, my clerical designation, like to be a minister, and they want to take that away now, because they said, I'm not becoming, I'm attacking other Christians, they want to know what's my plan to stop doing that.

I'm in quite a quandary, and I'm trying to present scripture, but they don't see it the way that I do, and they are in the laterane, and they are in this, they would probably honor Brannemite. They said, well, they always say, there's lots of documented healings and stuff.

I don't know about that, and maybe you can talk about that one day about the manifestations of healings that still came, because Jesus always touches the one whose faith is there, regardless of the leader, but now we're all seeing it. It is getting more dogmatic, and they're powerful, actually, to be able to speak their version of how they see these issues, and the manifest sons of God issues, and they might not even call it that now, because it's getting maybe more known and visible, so then they switch it up.

I just had a conversation yesterday with a cult expert in Japan, which it'll come out on a podcast here in a few weeks, but he's seeing the exact same thing, and with regards to the healing, what he said, when he's teaching theology in some of his classes, he says he believes absolutely in healing. He said, but the problem is, many of these faith healers, they, if you think of it like a battering, batting average, they say they have a batting average of 100, whenever it's only like 1%, they'll say that they've healed all of these people, and only 1% are actually being healed,

and it's not that God is failing. It's that the person who's claiming this, they're not valid. What they're saying is not valid, but interestingly, we had a conversation about exactly what I said earlier, the moonies, the AK-47s, all of this weirdness is hitting his area too. I think it's, if I remember correctly, Paula White, who is, Paula White-Kane, who's deeply embedded- in Washington. She was promoting the, what was it, the wife or the mother of Son Young-moon?

Yeah, the daughter. Yes, and she's the only begotten daughter of God, apparently. And Paula Whites, you know, bowing to this woman. It's crazy. Well, he was saying that in Japan, it has become such a problem that they're actually defunding the unification church over this, because this is a dangerous thing. This is, this is something that's really dangerous. But in the United States, because of separation of church and state and the laws that exist to protect churches, it becomes more difficult, which makes it all the more scary, because you have these connections.

You have people like Paula Whitecane who are embedded in Washington, preaching the seven mountains. Here's literally a person who is in Washington with counsel with the president who says, we need to conquer the mountains, one of which is the one you're sitting on, Mr. President.

So you have, you have people in power who shouldn't be. I'll just say it like that with influence that they should never have. And it all goes back down to the roots. Whenever, whenever the roots of this are so evil and so problematic that each time it came to a head, the head had been cut off. The clan came to a head. They were, they were exposed as a terrorist organization. They went underground. Christian identity began to flourish.

It came to a head. People saw it as racism. Then in the 60s, the clan re-emerged as the third wave, the head was cut off again. It went back down. But the ideology kept continuing through the churches.

And the ideology that was created was under the disguise of being religion. So it's this evil thread that is just flowing through the churches. And it's so insidious because people think it is actually biblical. They're using real Bible verses to promote it. Pastors who have no real understanding of what it is that is being spread through this movement consider it to be biblical.

And so they're helping preach it. Your average layperson who comes into the church, who isn't familiar with their Bible, they hear a pastor say it and well, it must be, it must be biblical because the pastor said it. This ideology continues because of this.

And for me, one of the ways that I escaped it was I read the Bible cover to cover over and over and over just to wash it out of my head. The sad truth is many Christians today just don't read it.

Wow. You said a lot there and a lot of it caught my attention. When we think about how they are using the word and they'll use the Bible, but they're still propelling something that is not of the word and they'll use scripture in the wrong context. I think about how the ashera poles in the Old Testament were set up so that even kings who honored God, it says at times they would Bill, they would not remove the high places.

They would not remove the ashrapoles. We're not removing witchcraft. We have weak leadership in the United States of America. We have compromised. This is how we are losing the strength of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And it is being watered down so that someone like Paula White, the big leaders who say they love Jesus and know Jesus are asking the Christians to stop sounding off about their concern about Paula White bowing to a false goddess, I guess, where she is the only begotten daughter of God and believes she's such.

And Paula White probably gets paid an immense sum, who knows, they never disclose, to go over there and do this. And then she wants your $1,000 so that you can be blessed by God when in actual fact, you can simply be blessed by God.

And you said something pivotal. These people don't know the word of God. And so your average guy is kind of listening to the big wigs out there. And I don't want to say their names anymore.

I do it enough on my show. But the big wigs, they're telling all the people who don't know the word enough to just be quiet, just accept the compromise. Just let them do what they're going to do.

We don't have to, at least we have somebody that's having worship in the White House. Yes, Paula White is doing that, as she's basically filming it and not worshiping. You would think that when she's filming the worship moments at the White House, that maybe she would be seen worshiping.

No, she's filming. Does she not have an assistant in there somewhere? I don't know how this works. But you would think that it would be important to usher out compromise. To, this is why the Lord is not returning yet because his bride is not spotless.

It is not clean yet. We are wrinkled. And so as God is ironing out wrinkles, he's calling for those who are worshiping in spirit and truth with no compromise. We don't want any ashera poles.

We don't want any wrong teachings mixed in a little leavened leavens the whole loaf. And we don't want that. And that's why what you're doing is so powerful, John, because you're saying, we've got some leaven in here, guys, and we might need to work to get it out.

And however long God has you on this journey of disclosure, you are setting people free. And what I'm upset about is those that are not like you, they're not asking us to stop compromising.

They're actually asking the body of Christ to compromise. They're actually asking us to just be quiet. Just let someone... So sing, just let so-and-so have their position. You know, yeah, yeah, there's, you know, there's kind of some bad moments and, you know, agendas in there and people are getting very wealthy off of it all, but just be quiet.

And there is a generation whose God is the Lord Almighty and we will not compromise and we will call it out and we don't care if you don't like us. And that's what's rising.

It's like you read my notes. Well, and interestingly, I had to go look it up to confirm my old memory, but you mentioned the asher oppose. One of the points I was going to build up to is what is it exactly that they're worshipping whenever they're pushing seven mountains because every single aspect of seven mountain dominionism, every aspect of it is anti-biblical.

There isn't anything that can be supported by the Bible. And you go back to its roots and you wonder, well, what was this? If you look at the, if you look at the ladder rain movement, there were things in ladder rain that just simply were not biblical and you have to wonder, what was it that they were worshipping?

William Brannum openly prayed to an angel, not God, not Jesus, an angel. And in some of the meetings, some of the revival meetings, he would say, I can heal this kid myself without even praying for it.

I don't need God, but more, you mentioned the asher oppose. More interesting is the fact that one of the themes that emerged deeply rooted in ladder rain was the idea that the phrase else should die, which translated it means the powerful God, God Almighty.

If you, most people understand what that means. In ladder rain, it was translated to be this mysterious mystery religion thing, translated to be the many breasted God, which was the asher oppose. That was exactly what it was.

And the notion that God has many breasts is fully anti-biblical. There's not a single passage in the Bible that says that God has many breasts, but that's what they were preaching. So they were literally bringing back the asher oppose into the church through ladder rain.

And that is what built the charismatic movement. I've heard this. I've never understood what you're saying right now, but I've heard these bigwig ministers talking about the, you know, breasted one, whatever it was like he's, so, and it's not even biblical, but it goes, see, we wouldn't know that, would we?

That it has roots to some pagan, you know, asher oppose sort of dogma. I mean, this is why we just need the word, don't we? Because if we know the Bible better, we're gonna understand when we begin to see the counterfeit.

And we're gonna be able to call it out. And I'll tell you something, John, I'm very encouraged by. And that is that, About two, three years ago, maybe closer to three now, the Lord told me to start bringing Scripture up on my podcast, which was not necessarily a Christian podcast.

They knew I was a Christian, but we were talking about things that were happening in the world, there was some drama going on in our world in the last five years. So we had kind of built up a podcast that was hitting world things, but from a biblical perspective, but it wasn't a dogmatic preaching podcast.

And the Lord asked me to begin bringing up the Word, and that moved to, from my own Bible, and that moved to reading from my father's Bible at the start of each show. And now, every time I turn on a podcast, they're all reading the Bible, they're quoting the Scripture, they're saying, well, this is it, not what he said, not how she's presenting it, not how the big wigs with all the money and the multi-million dollar mansions, and the multi-level marketing schemes going on, pushing religion, not them, but this is what the Bible says.

And so I thought I was gonna be called like, oh, labeled like, you know, I'm the church lady, you know, from the old Saturday night skits, and this is it, this'll be the end.

You know, Lord, you're telling me to do something that's not gonna be helpful. I'm gonna, you know, because I didn't see anyone else reading the Word on podcasts, and he told me to do it, and I started doing it.

And you know what, I got a greater audience, people supported me, they loved that I was doing it. It was better, but I had to just listen, even though I didn't understand about that.

But now, what you're saying, John, and what you're asking people to do is to understand the biblical roots of, this is sorcery, and it's witchcraft entering the church, and you're pointing it out. And so I know that sometimes you come under fire, but I would just like to ask your audience to be gracious to, John, to support this man, to support this show that you're watching right now, to support what John is doing, because this is hard ground.

You are digging up things that we need to know, and we need to be set free, and please support, John, he didn't ask me to say this, but when you do this kind of warfare, you get backlash, and the enemy tries to hurt your family, comes against you in all kinds of different ways, and John needs support, and I personally have just been so enlightened by what you teach.

Well, thank you, yes, I didn't ask for that, but I do appreciate you saying it, and it is hard. I've had people who, I often have people as guests, who have left the faith, and I don't turn them away, because what I understand from my own journey is that when you're in this type of religion, it is not the God of the Bible that you're serving, and so when people become atheists, many people become...

Matthew is thinking that they're an atheist, but really they've just left that false God behind. And I've had people come on, I can just simply, like I mentioned the passage where it talks about Paul telling the people, don't let people accuse you for eating food that sacrifice to idols, et cetera.

And that will spark some thread of memory that they had of some theology that was just so cumbersome, so burdening to them. And they'll go back and look it up and say, wait a minute, everything that I have been taught is not, can't be supported by that passage.

What other passages can't be supported by it. So I bring it up from time to time. I do for myself, I keep it as much as possible with the history, but welcome anybody, no matter what you believe or don't, to share your story.

And through sharing each other's stories, we can learn, we can grow. And many, some people have come back to the faith, so it is helpful and it is a, it is a, it's a good thing to show that other people of different opinions can work together and learn from each other.

This is good fruit. This is good soil that you are planting and you are educating and teaching us. And if, if people, they are definitely seeing, I was going to say if they don't know, but actually they do.

They are seeing that there is so much witchcraft in our charismatic religions in, you know, in our churches, probably every church has leaven that is trying to get into it. But if we, if we don't understand the roots of this, if we don't understand what we're really dealing with, we won't recognize it.

And you're bringing the Word of God to light. And thank you for reaching out to the sinners. That's what Jesus did. You know, like we, he didn't gaslight him and he didn't make them feel more shame.

He just said, you know, be free. And even the adulterous woman, someone caught in the most shameful position of the era. And he says to her, you know, go your way and sin no more.

Where are your accusers? That is the heart of Jesus to bring us to him. How much he loves us, you know? And so, so this is good. And I just appreciate you, John. I've had so much fun learning from you today.

And I hope we can do it again. It'd be great. So much fun. I enjoy it too. And, you know, it's not that I'm against the charismatic churches. Some of them are actually pretty good.

But if you have an ashera pole in your church, don't you want to get it out? Right. That's literally what this movement was. So thank you so much for doing this. You're welcome, John.

Thanks for having me again. Well, you've enjoyed our show and you want more information. You can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org and Laura Lynn Live. For more about the dark side...

of the new Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

You can read Weaponized Religion from Christian identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.