Dangerous Games: Sex, Lies, and the Death Row Elijah

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my co-host and friend, Laura Lynn Tyler Thompson, host of Laura Lynn Live. Laura Lynn, it's good to be back and to talk about all things that are completely shocking to the to the world you came from. I know that the story that I have for you today. I know that whenever I found it as it related to the Branhamite side of things, I just I couldn't believe it. I took a step back and

I looked at this and I thought there's no way this is real. It's far more interesting than many movies that I have watched and it connects to you a little bit because of some of the research that I have been doing into your old church. I forward you a couple of the newspaper articles. So I thought maybe today we would talk about the significance of those articles that I sent you.

I'll throw them up on the screen for the viewers, but then I want to talk about the backstory of what those articles mean. I love it, John, and you know it's just been such an awakening for me and also for my audience and of course the many many people that share the same background because we're you know we're a few hundred maybe few thousand strong across the country and in Canada it's pretty significant and then it worked into the states with people that also knew my pastor's formerly Reg Leselle and you know and and all that took place

and it's it's actually been fairly life-changing for me and I think that before you get into the stories my shock and awe has been I didn't even really understand who William Branham was and yet the people that I've been running with in Canada are pretty much Branhamites and they celebrate him and as we're realizing what the the truth is behind all of it I'm hoping there's an education because we need to be more discerning and one of the things we've failed in as Christians is to not be discerning we're not hearing from the Holy Spirit obviously and we need to be hearing him regularly because he gives

us new information here and there about you know the spirit with which someone might be doing something I heard interesting stories from my good friend Pastor Mike Poulin and his wife Jackie visited us for the last day or so and just on how you know, sometimes people have discernment and then they get into sin or something like that and it goes all sideways. But with what you are sharing, you're enlightening everyone as to the truth and the reality behind this whole movement that you were raised in as, you know, just with shocking things and also people that we now know and you know, we don't realize that it

all of these things had happened. So I appreciate the discernment and I can't wait to hear your stories believe me. I can't wait. Well there are crazy wild ride. I'll say it like that. You know, whenever you take, I'm going to give a hypothetical situation here. Take a room filled with nine really good men with good hearts, good intentions, you know, Christian men who have a Christian agenda and they're wanting to further the gospel to the world. But with the nine is one man who is a con artist and the other men build big ministries, big empires that are literally built upon the foundation

that that one card con artist built. Whenever they figured out what do you do because you already have a ministry, you already have all of the people who are following you sending you money.

And then suddenly you realize, wait a minute, something's wrong here. What I have come to find out is there are this, this is a real situation. They weren't all in the same like a little room, but they were in massive audiences. And they discovered that one of them or more was a complete con artist. And what do you do with this? What happened was many of the men started saying, well, William Brannum was a good man until he went astray because they had to have figured out at some point that they were conned. And when they did, they they started cutting ties and they tried to

separate their ministry. But what happened was because they covered it up instead of openly said, wait a minute, this guy was a con artist, then that ministry that any ministry that was connected to Brannum continued and grew and flourished and turned into a wild, wild mess. So in the beginning of all of this, as Brannum is going around touring with, we've talked about it before, the levitating boy, and talking about Raymond Hoekstra, who was, he was later known as Chaplin Ray, which we'll get into later in this podcast. But in the early years, I don't know how much we've talked about this,

whenever Raymond Hoekstra found the power of attracting crowds of Christians through entertainment with levitating boys, the money became greater than the message. And once he realized the power and potential of the youngster that was allegedly levitating, he actually owned the boy.

I've got If you go to my website and you type in David Walker, you can read all the newspapers where the family has to fight to try to get their boy back because he literally had ownership rights of the child.

And he did this because the child was making so much money. Well, if you fast forward to what was created by this, you had William Bramham who was healing the sick, you had the boy, the levitation wasn't his main act.

He claimed that he had spent moments of time in heaven. And so crowds were coming to listen, oh, what is heaven like? Tell me what it's like, young child. And so he would spend time telling them what he saw in heaven and then levitate and then Bramham would heal the sick.

Well, over time, this shifted and Bramham became the foremost message of the scene of the show. And this developed into obviously the laterane and became the laterane message. Well, it became to be called the message of the hour.

So the cult that I came from, the one my grandfather's church here in Jeffersonville, we called it the message of the hour. This was the name of the cult. Worldwide, they call it this.

So last couple of weeks, I've been digging a little bit into Reglezel and going through articles trying to piece things together. I don't know when, but soon I will have a site up for Reglezel and some of the research information.

But I came across one newspaper article where he is preaching on the coming New Testament church and in the slogan under the sermon title, it says, this is the message of the hour. Don't miss it.

So if you consider the fact that Reglezel is in the laterane movement, he's working with, as we'll get into people who are key figures working with William Bramham. And he's using the verbiage, the message of the hour.

This puts him directly within the circle of people who are in the direct influence of William Bramham. Very shocking and I know when you sent me the screen shots, I was just like, wow, so this really happened.

It did. And another one that I sent you, which I'll throw it up on the screen here, but Raymond Hoekstra, the man who owned the child that was touring with William Bramham, he also spent time in Reglezel's church.

This was the church on 590 Canby Street, Glad Diting's Tabernacle. I grew up hearing all about 590 Canby Street. Oh yeah, yeah. So there's a photograph, I'll throw up the newspaper, but they had this nice big photograph whenever Raymond Hoekstra came to visit them.

And the date is significant to me because it was 1951, the newspaper article is January 6th, 1951. This is one year. After the latter-rain movement began to believe that a pillar of fire had came down and been captured in a photograph above William Branham's head. And in today's NAR world, you'll find people like Benny Hinn talking about William Branham had a halo above his head.

You can find these audio clips out there. William Branham was preaching my dear when a halo appeared over his head preaching in Louisiana. What they're referring to is there is a photograph of William Branham where at the top of it there is this beam of light that was captured.

And what these guys did, everybody who was in the building, this was the Sam Houston Coliseum. Everybody was in the building who saw the stage lighting would have recognized that this is stage lighting. But everybody who bought the book or bought the photographs, it really looks like a halo. It's an effect that is called halation. Whenever they had black and white photographs, if you took a captured a photograph of a light behind a person, it would create this halo effect called halation. And that's what this was. So this photograph was taken in 1951 year before

Raymond Hoaxcher came to visit the Glad tidings Church, which means it puts it into the orbit of the halo story, which as we get into in this episode, it is a crazy wild ride.

Well, I can't wait to hear this. And I guess you can imagine that if the halo story began to, you know, we didn't have internet, of course, in those days. So I guess one pastor would tell another. And if everybody's sort of in this field of ministers influence, then you would hear about it and it would become bigger than life. Absolutely. And it was bigger than life at the moment at which it was captured. When it was captured, it was simply a photograph. It was taken by one of the men was a four gospel business men, which we've talked about in the last few episodes. His name was James

Ayers. And the studio that was hired to take the photographs of the event in the Sam Houston Coliseum was called Douglas Studios. It was named after a young child. I think it was either 13 years old or 14 years old at the time named Leslie Douglas Ashley. He went by Douglas. And he was the one who whenever the photographs were taken, he's the one who went back into the room and developed the photographs and touched them up, etc. But you had the full gospel business men, James Ayers, and you had Theodore Kipperman. Those were the two photographers. The event was a debate

between William Brannum, FF Bosworth, who was out of the John Alexander Dauy cult. and it was against a Baptist minister named Best. So they held this big debate, and in the middle of the debate, they took a photograph.

It looked like a halo. And in, I think it's this book, Man sent from God, which was widely published throughout the laterane movement, by Gordon Lindsay, who went on later to found Christ for the Nation's Institute.

This book was supposed to have the halo photograph on it, but Theodore Keperman, James Ayers, decided instead, they wanted to copyright it because they realized, wait a minute, this looks like a halo. I bet I can make some money off this photograph.

So they, they withheld the photograph for copyright. This book got a different picture, and in the voice of Healing Magazine, they announced, we can't use the picture, this book has been held up, but we wanted to use the photograph that was captured in the Sam Houston Coliseum, which later became revered as this halo photograph.

So there's a lot of details surrounding the photograph, but as I'm about to get into the photograph, isn't as interesting as what happened next as it relates to the Pentecostal Charismatic Movement, and eventually the NAR.

Wow. Well, I can't wait to hear that. And as you were talking, I was thinking about some photographs that someone took of me being prayed for. I think it was back in about 2017 in a church, and the lighting, they said it was so unusual because the lighting just kind of shone, there was some kind of lighting artifact that made it like I was almost looked angelic in the middle of everyone praying for me.

And I never took that and built a ministry on it, but it's interesting what light does, and if you are somebody who is, you know, has that, you have to have a certain car salesman ability, you have to have a certain, there's a certain type of person who's willing to take something that's perfectly ordinary and just has something like a lighting feature and exploit it for their own benefit.

And that is the difference between a person that is willing to just preach the gospel at its best and a person that's willing to use the gospel for gain, which is what Jesus spoke against.

And that certain personality type that is willing to exploit things and people is what I think we find as a significant part of what William Brannum did, unfortunately. Actually, that's a good segue into where I was headed with this because of the...

exploitation. So you had the reason for this debate. The Reverend Best was a defender of in his mind and his peers, the gospel. And William Brannum and FF Bosworth were defenders of in their minds the quote unquote full gospel. This meant we believe in the healings, the signs, the wonders, the miracles, etc. I've actually read some of his books and some of his published literature. He believed in divine healing. He just did not believe in divine healers as such. He would always say it, I don't believe in divine healers as such, but he believed that God healed the sick. It's written

in the Bible. How can you not believe it? But his debate was he thought that these men like William Brannum were exploiting the people and for financial gain, for nothing else but to make themselves rich and famous. So he wanted to debate and challenge them. The debate itself, so picture all of these people, Christian people coming to this meeting. On one side, we have the people who don't believe this divine healing stuff, but does believe in God, their Christian. Then you have all the Pentecostal Charismatic, before Charismatic existed, the Pentecostal letter rain, I should say.

They were fighting on behalf of the science miracles. It broke out into a fist fight. Right there in the Sam Houston Coliseum Christians, fist fighting Christians, and they had to escort them from the building quickly. Even that is not the most interesting thing. So there is a book by Robert L. Bentley called Dangerous Games. And this book was key to unlocking the whole mystery behind all of this story. This book is about Leslie Douglas Ashley after she became a transgender and she started working in the political party supporting President Clinton and some other Democrats in the Democratic Party. Leslie Douglas Ashley at the time that this photograph was captured and

was involved in capturing it was a young male prostitute who was working, likely working the grounds at the Sam Houston Coliseum. So we have a prostitute and all of that information is detailed in this book. The two men, Leslie Douglas Ashley's, they were the uncle and the stepfather, James Ayers, Ted Kipperman. They were also counterfeiters. So you had a counterfeiter who is working with a a prostitute young child who later became transgender. And all of this is surrounding this Halo photograph. This is the backstory that probably nobody knew at that time. So back to my

original analogy, you had 10, 15 people in the room. They saw of this thing, they saw the halo photograph. Maybe it's God, maybe not. I don't know. I was there, but I saw stage lighting, but they're saying it's God coming down in a pillar of fire, so I'm going to believe it as a laterane minister.

That would have been the story that was pitched likely at the Glad Tidings tabernacle, because it's only about one year in advance. But after that book was published, or after the photograph was published, the story ran rampant.

William Brannum said that this was like the pillar of fire that came down from Moses and the children of Israel. He said, this is the same pillar of fire in today's world that is showing us that we're about to escape this world.

And he started preaching his rapture theology. So fast forward to the year 1963, William Brannum was preaching in Jeffersonville. And he said that God was going to give him the mystery, and he was to go out to Arizona and Haunt.

He goes to Arizona to Haunt. And the second of the two major relics of Brannumism is this mystery cloud. I don't know, have you seen this before? The mystery cloud. Yes, I have. I, in googling things, yes.

Yeah, I've seen this. So if you are a Brannumite, and oddly, if you're in the New Apostolic Reformation, or many of its predecessors, these two are the two relics of Brannumism. You have the cloud, and you have the halo.

And they're both connected in a strange way. When William Brannum went out west to Haunt and to receive his message from the Lord, whatever it was that he claimed, he was, he arrived in Arizona before hunting season.

And Leslie Douglas Ashley, the one who was with the two photographers, was on a three-day sex orgy. I hate to say that word, but he was in a three-day sex orgy with a man named Fred Thoms and shot him.

And so he and his, he had another prostitute with him. He, the prostitute with him, took Fred Thoms, burned the body, fled the scene, and made the FBI's most wanted list. So this is coming down into a weird setup because you've got William Brannum, who's out to receive a message from God to prostitutes.

How is all of this connected? Well, James Isers, the man who was a full gospel businessman, the stepfather of the boy, the one who realized that this halo photograph that so many people have taken to be this pillar of fire, he it is leverage. And he said, William Brannum, you have to come help us get Leslie Douglas Ashley off of death row. So at the time that this cloud happened in Arizona, which this was the result of a rocket detonation for the missile defense system, which is another story for another day. At the time this happened, Brannum was in Houston, Texas with the full gospel businessman

with John Osteen. Joe Osteen's father was there with them. And they were setting up a petition to try to stay the execution of Leslie Douglas Ashley. So while all of this is going on, Leslie Douglas Ashley is being taunted as a poster child for a conversion to Christianity, even though he's a transgender prostitute. All of these men are coming together, rallying around him. And there is an audio clip, which I have also on my website, of what sounds very much like a forced confession from Leslie Douglas Ashley. My testimony I am entitled is called God Provided Me, the Road of

Salvation. God created man in his image and according to Romans 12, I have laid before him my life as a living sacrifice and his will will be my life. The route of sin to the homicide, to the courtroom, to death row for Jesus of mercy. Jesus Christ is for all and all is for Jesus Christ. At the time all of this is happening, all of these men are at this point, not yet at the point where they believe William Brannum has gone astray. They're all rallying around him. But during the course of this meeting, you have to

understand that it likely came into their minds that suddenly they're thinking, you know, not much of the story really adds up. Why are we here helping defend a transgender prostitute who killed a man?

Why are we listening to this forced confession? Gordon Lindsay, who again is the head for Christ for the nations, he publishes in the voice of healing magazine the the holy vent as though this was a conversion to Christ. And we'll get it. I won't get it too far into this, but Ashley later left all of this and became probably completely atheist, did completely have a sex change and was rallying against most of the political parties that these men support. So if it was a conversion, it didn't last very long. But there came a point that everybody's in the same room together and they have to

realize that man that we're supporting here, he's got to be a con artist. Believeable. And Ode to be a fly on the wall when it kind of begins to sink in like what is happening, you know.

That is crazy and you're right. It's like a movie. It's a good Wednesday night, maybe Friday night movie on a series of things that went down. So then what happens? So after they all started rallying to try to petition for the stay of execution.

Branham, Branham does come to Houston because he's there when this cloud formation happened. He and John Osteen visited in the prison cell. I think there's either photographs or there's text about it. I think I've got a text article about it.

On the 24th of May 1961, I was found guilty of murder after a 9-day trial here in Houston. The Al Meljury consisting of fellow Al Meljury workers, a carpenter, a tree surgeon, a poster clerk, a postman, an estimator for an electric contractor, a retired foundry worker, a salesman and a miller right for a paper company.

It says they're pansy at death. Then following the death penalty, I was transferred from the hospital to death row to a very lonely co-sale here in the county jail. During the day, I received a visit from a local pastor in a hostel.

He asked me to let me know who Jesus was, and my reply was, no, who is he? He explained to me in detail about lessons and then asked where he led prayer. Something I believe truly led me how to pray and seek forgiveness.

Upon his departure, he presented me with a Bible with certain verses underlined. They tried to convince the judge and failed. But what happened was, they convinced Leslie Douglas Ashley to start claiming that he was Elijah the prophet.

And if you know the history of Branemism and everything leading to Branemism, through Christian identities, Malachi 4 theology, they believed that the Elijah of the Old Testament would be restored in the last days, and we would see this Elijah figure again.

They also knew that not many people would really believe this, and they would think that Ashley was crazy. So Leslie Douglas Ashley started claiming that he was the return of Elijah the prophet. And he and some of the other guys, and I guess in the full gospel businessman, started a evangelical foundation for his Elijah ministry.

And there was actually a state of execution for a plea of insanity because he was claiming to be Elijah the prophet. Ashley, after the state of execution, Ashley escaped the minimum security prison that he was in.

and hit out I guess in the circus as I think Bobo the clown or something, but the FBI, I'll throw this up on the screen, it's kind of funny, the FBI's top 10 most wanted picture has a, has him as a both male and female, and there's an article somewhere that's talking about the FBI agents are looking for a man dressed as a woman holding a Bible and preaching while dressed as, while, while hiding out as a woman, a clown in the circus, it's one of the craziest articles that I've ever came across, but, but all of this because the, these full gospel businessmen helped, helped, I guess, convince him to be a large of the prophet. So here's the poster child for a converted transgender person who converted to the laddering movement, gave their heart to Christ and has this weird force confession.

Immediately when the chance opens, escapes prison and starts hiding out and running from the law, so you can tell there wasn't really a conversion there at all. Wow, and when you're talking about John O. Osteen, I just want to confirm this is the father of Joel Osteen, the same.

It is the same one, not many people know this, but John Osteen, I, I even have, somewhere I've got articles of him touring some of the laddering churches, he was deeply embedded in this thing that, I guess you would call it, even back then, you would still call it the message of the hour.

So he was embedded in this, his ministry almost failed, and as I understand it, the full gospel businessmen, the same ones who were working with Brannum, offered him a tent ministry and I guess helped establish his ministry when his ministry was failing.

So that church that John Osteen, that Joel Osteen preaches from today, it exists only because they were part of this movement. Wow, fascinating. And John was a part of trying to get this guy pardoned.

Right, absolutely. What's he done? I mean, I'm just so shocked, like, what was it, what was it to them that they all rallied around this person? Well, that's just it. See, in my mind, I try to think of logically what makes the most sense. And none of this makes any sense. If you really take a step back and think about it, why, it was a, it was almost career suicide from many of these evangelists to try to rally around this person.

I very, very cautiously talked about what happened during the, I did use the O word, but I very cautiously talked about what happened. If you actually read the articles, this was a very nasty, nasty crime. This isn't something that any evangelical minister will...

ever want to try to help her or try to, you know, stay the execution. So it's really odd. I think this is the point at which many of the ministers suddenly realized that they had been conned. It has to have been because they're in the room with Brannum, with Jim James Ayers, these men who knew that the photograph was actually just stage lighting. And that was his leverage over Brannum to get Brannum to come and headline the stay of execution revivals. So you're in this revival for a transgender person who committed a murder solely to salvage the notion that there was a halo above William Brannum's head. So I'm putting

myself in their shoes as a minister. I don't know that I could buy this. Even if I was a part of the movement, I don't know if I could buy this because it literally would have been career suicide. John Osteen had nothing to lose though because his whole ministry existed because these men had helped profit up. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Brannum Historical

Research, we want to thank you for your support. Why do you think, John? Why William Brannum would want to see this guy vindicated? Is it because he was associated with him prior? Is that it?

If you read all of the information that exists about these guys, these guys are Ted Kipperman, who was the other photographer, went on to create a pawn and wedding shop in Houston. You could go in, you could hawk, you could hawk something and get a ring and suddenly get married in the same building. That's how weird this is. So these weren't really your top Christian guys that he's working with. But my gut tells me that if they knew that the Halo photograph was nothing but stage lighting and we have photographs, I'll throw them up on the screen. You can see

other photographs from the same exact era and even later the black and white ones it looks like a halo but you can see the stage lighting behind their heads there was stage lighting in there so the photographers knew but in the latter rain movement this was a popular photograph there was a lot of mileage that came from this photograph and every ministry that was connected to that was literally this is the pillar of fire that's been indicating our entire ministries this is the pillar of fire that came down over the children of Israel and it's over the

head prophet of the latter rain movement William Branham I think there's a point at which they the men realized that either we admit that the whole thing was a fake or we go support this and there had to have been a literally there had to have been a decision made in their minds before they did this because again it's a career suicide to come try to try to get involved with this so there had to have been a decision within their minds that they're going to cover this up yes the guy we have now figured out the guy had to have been a con artist but if we expose that

then we expose ourselves so it's more about protecting themselves than it was protecting the truth so the guy on death row he has shot someone and he's been with prostitutes and William Branham wants this guy because maybe there's a he had feigned or said he had come to the lord and so they were going to help him do you think there was any chance that he from his prison cell would be saying I'm going to out you guys you either help me or like blackmailed in any way I'm just I'm just trying to think of another angle well you're talking about two counterfeiters the guys who

own the studios were counterfeiters I mean and they had I've got the legal documents on my website for that you can see that that clearly there was a problem here these were not these were not very good men they were he was working with I don't know I go back and forth because if you read the statements that is in the book dangerous games either they have been paid to cover it up or they legitimately did not know what what was wrong with the photograph Ted Kipperman in the book he was interviewed and he said that he thought maybe his camera was faulty and myself I go back

and I look at all of the photographs that are from the era I don't know that I buy the faulty camera thing because if you find other photographs that look like halos which again I'll throw some up on the screen he had to have known it was stage lighting so odd and so So you think that this was probably the moment in history when people began to go, what is really going on here that weren't involved in this, you know, debacle.

So John Osteen may have had a wake up at that time. Based off of my research, whenever I put things together into a timeline, you start to see these patterns emerge. Again, I looked at, I looked at Reg Les Elles, newspaper articles advertising his Sunday sermons, and I see the message of the hour, which binds it to all this.

You had the Halo photograph in 1950. You have Reg Les Elles, 1951. Then, you know, it's just 1953, I think, is whenever there's a big falling out between William Brannum and some of the other ministers.

You can start to see signs along the way where there are rifts occurring, and there are people who are at odds with each other. And they always seem to come back. The rift that happened in 1953, Brannum was to speak in, I think it was Chicago at one of the voice of healing conventions, and they snubbed him.

They wouldn't let him speak. And this caused this big schism in the movement. You had people from the leadership in the movement in Chicago that are fighting with Gordon Lindsay. Very verbally, you can see it in their magazine articles.

So you had these rifts that are forming all along the way. And whenever something like this happens, if you get on one side or the other of the debate, you're going to think critically.

And that's really the key to unlocking all of this. If you take a step back and think critically about any of it, you're gonna say, this doesn't make sense. This doesn't even resemble Christianity.

So if you start to notice when people are having these shifts and these difference of opinion that are major, significant enough to publish in a magazine, you have to know that they had some inside knowledge as to those people that they agreed with and those people that they thought were complete scoundrels.

The fact that Brannum was snubbed in 1953, which is two years after this was taken, it tells me that there were people at least in 1953 who realized that's not a pillar of fire.

This is not something from God. Otherwise, why would you snub them? Why would you let the messenger for the hour stand back and not be a speaker, right? So I have to believe that all along the way, there were people who knew.

I don't think everybody knew. I think that there were a lot of people who just bought it because they were told. Like Regile Zell, I have no reason to think that he was bringing these men into his church because he thought they were scoundrels.

He probably believed they were good men, but he also didn't have all the information. Whenever you go through... through a trial of this significance. This was a nationally publicized, crazy, crazy trial from a guy who's back then transgender was not so common as it is today.

This was highly offensive to many of the people of that era. And to make the FBI's most wanted list, this was nationally publicized. So I think during the course of that trial, so much information had to have come out, that these men had to have critically thought.

So in my opinion, which it's all just opinion, I think they had to have known. They had to have been, at this point, they had to have awakened and realized, this isn't right, something here is not right.

Something here is not right. And you know, down through the ages, I think what we're getting to and why God is slipping the tables right now and even you coming out of this in 2012 and your journey to bring light and exposure

to the truth. This is the hour where God has suddenly released a lot of information through internet, through podcasters, such as yourself and myself, so that people like, I was just listening to a broadcast of Rick Joyner, still trying to promote someone like Todd Bentley, or Jim Baker, he brought him back and I heard recently Jim is feeling like he's, you know, going bankrupt, I guess, you know, selling the end days food and these, you know, these electrical, well, you know, you have a backup generator and make sure you have your backup generator for the end of the world and all that.

I guess it's not, you know, everything is being exposed for the nonsense that it is. And like I was discussing Bob Jones this week with a couple of people. Here's a guy who, I guess he had some words, prophetic words that came true, he said some things but he used his prophetic gifting to get women to disrobe in his office or wherever he did these prophetic words.

And you have to then wonder, like God is watching, where is the fear of the Lord? And when I see what shenanigans William Brannum did

and these other men that were with him, where was the fear of the Lord? It's no wonder in 1953, hopefully, some serious lovers of the truth of Jesus Christ began to say, yeah, buddies, this far and no further were not supporting this anymore.

Absolutely. And Bob Jones is another one who was. a strong defender of William Brannum, and if you study the IHOP history, the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, they basically reinvented Brannumism in Kansas City with this movement, Paul Cain being one of the biggest supporters of Bob Jones also. What's really odd, so I mentioned the cloud photograph that's in this magazine. When this happened, William Brannum was in Houston, Texas, defending the transgender person. Everybody was with him. Everybody knew he was there. Everybody who's part of this movement rallied around him, gave their support. It's

published in the Voice of Healing magazine. Everybody who reads the magazine knows that he's there. He goes back to Arizona for his hunting trip after this has came and gone. He goes back to Jeffersonville, Indiana, and somebody hands him this magazine. He mentions it on recording that after I think he preached like 10 sermons and somebody handed him this, and he said, I was there. I was right under this thing, and this is a photograph of seven angels coming down from the heavens to give me the mystery behind the seven seals of Revelation. That's why this hangs

in everybody's church who's in this church as their homes that are in this movement. So Paul Cain, who's big into the instrumental in helping create many ministries and connections within the NAR, Bob Jones, who was a strong supporter of Brannum, who also helped establish the Kansas City Fellowship, etc. They are promoting a man who was lying through his teeth, and I have to believe Paul Cain would have known many of these things. Anybody who's reading the magazines and puts the timeline together, there has to be a point when you recognize something's not right here. Whenever I was growing up in this, I knew all of the events. I never thought about

them in the form of a timeline, and I had no idea that the reason why he was in Houston, Texas was because of the transgender person who committed a murder. I remember William Brannum talking about helping stay the execution, and he said, this sounds crazy, but he said it, and we oddly believed it. He said that the humane society gave him an Oscar for his performance in helping stay that execution, and now me looking back as a grown adult man, thinking back to just that statement in itself is so absurd. You can tell that there's a mental health problem here. This man has a mental

health issue, but there are adults in the ministry who are still preaching it. And they're preaching it, in my opinion, they're covering up all of this past because their ministries, their entire empires are built on top of this.

I'm certain that they're aware of many of these details, but if they admit, wait a minute, this guy was a con artist, well, what parts of your ministry were built on top of his foundation?

And you have to start taking everything down, eventually it's a house of cards. Yes, eventually it is. And do we have any understanding of why this guy was murdered, like what happened, what the reason was?

Yes. And if you read this book, it will tell you all of the graphic and gory details. Because this podcast goes out on YouTube, I can't give too much information, but to put it in a G rated, well, it's not even G, but to put it in a way that YouTube can play it, there were three people involved, two of them were prostitutes.

And they, in the course of what they were doing, a gun was part of their fun. And I'll leave it at that. You can let your mind wander. And the gun went off. You can let your mind wander.

Right? Okay. Yeah, so we get the picture. So my goodness, what a story. So when Jeremiah talks about the wicked, how wicked our human hearts are, and beyond all believability, this is really what we've seen in the life and times of William Brannum and, you know, and others since him that are just, I think, using the gospel for their own gain and there is fraud, lies, deception, murder,

the strangest of things. And what's weird is it involved people in and around them that got bigger names like John Osteen. I mean, probably very few people know Regile, that's a personal name very well known to me because he was the senior pastor of the church I grew up in until he turned it over to Marine Glory.

But these men were all running in these same circles. I guess because the big meetings were happening and people were saying, oh, this is maybe Elijah come back or whatever. And even at his death at William Brannum's death, I think you said that somebody, you know, made this, you know, this quote that, you know, we have seen Elijah through his life or whatever, something to that effect.

For me, the moral of the story is this. It all goes back to that article that I shared with you where... Chaplin Raymond Hoxtra is ties all this together. So Chaplin Raymond Hoxtra, who owned the child, who's levitating, who's touring with William Brannum, Chaplin Raymond Hoxtra, the reason he has this title, is because he earned a title of being a prison ministry

for helping this Leslie Douglas Ashley. He was there with Brannum, he was part of this entertainment thing. And that's solely what it was, it was entertainment. The moral of the story here is, whenever you try to build something that isn't the gospel, something that is solely for the purpose of entertainment, entertainment does attract crowds, it does attract money, but it is not the gospel.

And that's what they were presenting this form of entertainment with levitating boys, with halos, with whatever it is. The men who are behind it, like Raymond Hoxtra, he had to have known that this boy truly couldn't levitate.

You have to know this, right? You have to know that the transgender person did not convert to Christianity. It's very obvious that he didn't. But in spinning it in such a way that it sounds entertaining to a crowd, it brings in money, it does bring in money.

The problem is if you never admit to it and you continue that theme, entertainment gets boring. So you have to get bigger, you have to get better, you have to get more entertaining, more tricks, more stage personas.

And that's really why we have the NAR today. If you trace it all the way back through all of this, it isn't that everything is built on William Branham, even though he was a key part of this.

It's the entertainment that they were focusing upon, not the gospel. And as you grow that entertainment, you turn into a solid mess. And I feel like John, that's what I've been highlighting here in Canada with Sean Foyte.

You know, I've taken some real hits from my Canadian audience because they're like, what is wrong with you? Because I had big worship events during the COVID years, outdoors, we gathered to worship. But Sean Foyte comes here and he shut down and they say he's been persecuted because he's MAGA and he's being persecuted because of his policies or opinions on LGBTQ.

And the thing is, so just today, he has a picture of a person from that group. And they have a sign. And Sean Foyte's words is basically, we have to open up the mental institutions as soon as possible so that we can get them.

this, I guess, wacko, you know, put in there. And I just was like, you know, people need Jesus.

Is this how Jesus would try to convert the sinners? Is call them mental cases and come out against them. And so when Sean Foitt shows up in Canada and he has smoke bombs thrown at him, he is now disallowed in Winnipeg.

And I think the latest is, no churches will have him in Winnipeg, the Manitoba area.

The churches won't have him now. And he'll go on to his social media saying, like, Canada shut down their communists, they're not allowing worship, not true. In the same city where he was in Montreal and gets the smoke bombs thrown at him, which he called fire bombs initially, which was not a fire bomb.

So he had to kind of go, oh yeah, walk that back a bit. Oh, it's just a smoke bomb, purple, purple smoke bomb. Quite different than a fire bomb. But now when he's not allowed in all these cities, he's saying that it's Canada, but in actuality in Montreal, they had this huge worship gathering in downtown Montreal, everyone singing worship, no smoke bombs, no police, no antifa, nobody protesting because it's really about Sean Foyte.

And trying to get this message across has been really difficult, like the discernment is really at a low level. And I think that's how we got here. People thank God began to discern William Brannum, but look how long it has taken for truly coming out of this man to the point where the people in Canada that have been doing battle for Canada, Art Lucia, Steve Holmstrom, Dean Briggs, all of these guys, Mark Brisbois, man, they're just all about William Brannum.

And they don't even investigate, they have been trained into a way of thinking. And our discernment needs to come up at this hour. Exactly. There has to be a point in what people stand up for what's right.

And I think that there were people who, after all of this played out, there had to have been some of the men and women who were in those meetings and saw what happened that they did wake up.

Sadly, most of them woke up silently and they just walked away. There needs to be more people who speak out whenever something is wrong. You have to put a stop to what's wrong or you're a part of it.

And I feel that those who went on to build their ministries on top of this and say that God's generals, William Brannum is one of God's generals, but he went astray at the end.

If you really understand what that means, it means that... supporting a con artist through the first part of his ministry, saying that that was one of God's general. It's only whenever it starts to look like it might affect my own ministry when you stay, he's turning a stray, but he was always like this. No matter what era you look at, he was always the same saying. It's just they were about to get caught.

And just to reiterate something that, you know, you enlightened me too, but just for new members of the audience who might not have seen our last few podcasts, but William Brannum was in, in the hospital, often for mental health issues and having nervous breakdowns and things like that. Just totally, you know, being covered up, he was not well much of the time.

No, he was not. In fact, one of the mythologies of William Brannum is that he got attacked by a demon squirrel. He starts talking about being in this mental health episode. And he, I think it was Mayo's clinic that he was going to, but he starts talking about how he was attacked by a demon squirrel. The problem is, I am very sympathetic to mental health issues. I think people, you can't help it. There are people who just need help. And I'm sympathetic to it. But the people that I know of who do have issues whenever they're in an episode, I will never think that that episode is

something that's sent from God. That's, and if they're, they claim that they see a vision during the episode or whatever it is, you have to really question that. And again, you look at some of the men that were involved in this mess. They had to have known. First off, they had to have known that they were being conned. But they also, when you're around somebody who has mental health issues, it doesn't take long before you sense it. And the men and women who were in the inner circle who began to realize that this guy is just a little crazy. They had to have known. They had to

have understood it. But whenever you're looking at a crowd of 10,000 people and they all came to see the guy who you know has this issue, it's very difficult to step up and step up and say, it's not right. I'm not going to be a part of this. And it really comes down to character.

You had people of character who laughed and said, I won't know part of it. But you had other people who I questioned their character because they continued it. Well, that is such a good point.

And was there anyone who, okay, in 53, you're saying that, you know, they didn't want him preaching, do you know of anyone who out loud was saying something is wrong here? Do you know of anyone like that at that time going against the Brannamites? Well, that's our story for another day. Because that led up directly to a tie into Jim Jones. There was a point at which I doubt it was as many as But there was a point at which hundreds of ministers stood up and said we want no part of this over one of the key doctrines that Brannum had introduced.

Jim Jones took the side against Brannum, and it all began with this rift that I talked about in 1953. That began to escalate, and by 1956 it went very explosive. And numerous people who were in the developing, what would develop into the charismatic movement.

Numerous people were prophesying Brannum's death because he was outright heretical. And after he died, and he was venerated as God's general, they seemed to have erased that history too. So next time maybe we can talk about that.

Let's do that. John, it's always so fascinating. Thank you for what you're bringing to light. I thank you personally, and I know that I keep getting emails and such that people are being so awakened and enlightened.

By the information you're bringing because it's actually truly very unique to your life, and it impacts our lives. And you're just doing a great job. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I know that you take heat for it, and there's backlash against you spiritually and personally. But you're doing what is right, and I have such respect for you. Thank you, John. Well, thank you so much.

I appreciate it. I don't know that I deserve it, but I appreciate it. If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-brannum.org and Laura Lynn Live.

For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponize Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

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