Mystical Communion or Hidden Agenda? Exposing the NAR’s Dark Secrets

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research at William-brannum.org and with me I have my very special guests, Kevin and Barbara Siste. Kevin, Barbara, it's good to have you back and to talk all things manifested sons of God and it's interesting we were talking just a little bit before I hit record. We were discussing some of the current events with Lou Engel and it's weird to me and unusual and exciting at the same time how multiple guests that I'm interviewing at

the same time are talking about the same thing but from different angles and so I'm one of these people that likes to take all the puzzle pieces and put them together. Well I get a scattering of puzzle pieces when I talk to multiple people so I'm very very glad that you came to you know talk about this with me maybe for anybody who doesn't recognize who you are and I'm certain there's very few at this point could you take a moment just tell everybody a little bit about yourself and get into talking about this weird manifested sons of God

mass. Yeah sure of course my name is Kevin Siste this is my wife Barbara here. We have we've gone through IHOP we've both been involved in Christian missions in the past and went through the grief and the pain of IHOP and having to reevaluate ourselves and spent a lot of time in the desert doing that and so we've come out of that with this new new urgency to get into the word and we've been in the word for a couple years now and it's it's just changed us and changed our outlook and what the Lord's doing and has given us a real

strong sense of the deception that's that's out there. I'll let you introduce yourself even though I introduced you already. Yeah mostly I was doing a lot of work with global missions and cycle making movements and we've always been in the word but I think what God did in the desert was stripped back the different lenses that had been overlaid over the word through different movements through different people and to just strip back some of the stuff that was competing with the word of God and not enhancing it so that's us.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, what I wanted to talk about is, the last time we were on a podcast with you, John, we were talking about a friend of ours named Dean Briggs and how he actually confessed to us after we approached him on many occasions, trying to call him out for some militant language that he was spouting, alas, meeting was in Colorado Springs, we called him out for this, and we found out actually that he taught and believed William Brannum's manifested sons of God theology from some denotes, right?

So we were shocked. It caused me, both of us, to really look into this, like, okay, if it's, if it's somebody like Dean Briggs who is a part of IHOP and kind of hiding that theology behind, even though IHOP had some tentacles in that area as well, if he's affected by it, if he's propagating it, who else is, and it led me on a kind of a path, and when I approached you about having this podcast, I said I had great concerns about the great communion revival that started at Bethel this year with Bill Johnson and those guys, Luangal, Chris Berglund, and Dean

Briggs, and basically started over Passover weekend. It will culminate in an event in Washington, D.C., called Communion America, which happens in October, so they're going from Passover to Feast of Tabernacles, and honestly, looking into it, I just see that they're trying to lose something.

Luangal said it at Bethel, we want to lose the great communion revival. I think there's something more to what they're saying. I believe it's manifest its sons of God, I believe that they all teach it, and what I want to do is sound a warning for believers who are at all involved in this or somehow participating, somehow wanting to attend this event or any of the events along the way until the culmination in Washington, but the language is scary, we've even done some of our own podcasts now on what we call the gaslighting of Christianity.

It's like this huge gaslight, and that's what we felt in the desert when we were there. Okay, why is everybody talking about a great harvest? great community revival, and all these great things that are happening when the Bible seems to be talking about a great falling away.

So, as we're looking at all this stuff, we really went on a trail to find out what was going on. So, I knew that these guys, Luangal, Dean Briggs, Chris Bergland, were into dominion theology.

What I didn't realize until we had the conversation with Dean was this is the manifested sons of God and movement, and possibly some of your listeners don't know what that means if they're new.

But it is scary. It is something that we really want to expose. It is some scary stuff. Like I said, so many different puzzle pieces come together. I was talking to Bob Scott recently, I don't know if you caught it, but he was talking about his early years with the manifested sons of God theology, the dominionist theology that was emerging.

Apparently, he got into it a bit with Mike Bickle. He said that we've seen through history what happens if religious leaders claim dominion and take over territories and start governing. But the idea that was being secretly pushed apparently was that the Seven Mountain mandate, there would be, I guess, apostles ruling over each of the mountains.

Bob Scott had it correct. If you examine history, there's no way that this ever works out when you mix religious leaders as rulers over politics and domains, etc. So, it's scary stuff. I don't think the public is really aware whenever they're talking about, you know, it's a good thing when a politician is being prayed for and asking God for direction, etc.

But whenever the person who is praying with him has an intention on taking dominion, taking control, bringing forth the manifested sons of God so that we can literally become violent and wipe out all of the enemies, it really turns into a mess that's quite eerily similar to G-Hod.

Very much. And I think that's what I actually asked in one of the meetings we had before the last one is just this is the thing that makes Jesus different from all the other gods out there, little D, is that he gives us a free choice where we're supposed to freely come, freely choose.

And we can we can say no. We can say no to Jesus. Jesus came as a servant. There are consequences, obviously, for lots of reasons. But I think that was the thing that when I, you know, when we talked about the militant language, you know, and the seven mountain mandate and the more you study it with Lance Walnell and some of it's it's really.

really horrible. It's not just having apostles on the top of each of the mountains. It's manipulating whoever is the influencer at the top, whether they're Christian or not. And I think that's a scary thing. And so that was the conversation we had. And I actually said, I said, you know, Christian G. Haad is not a thing. And, you know, this, this is not biblical. Jesus said to freely choose. And you can say no. And it's devastating when people say no, especially family members and friends. We've, we've all experienced that.

But at the same time, God is the one who saves lives. God is the one who changes hearts. It's up to him. So all we can do is preach the gospel. I think it's interesting, which you said, too, John, because these are the, the folks that are going to pull the trigger eventually when we talk of purge. Right. But it's amazing because this, this movement is, they're bent on the idea of unity and coming together.

And even with this, with communion, it's, it's come to the table, come to the table. Let's all get together in love and unity. But yet, that seems so opposed to the fact that they really believe that they're going to participate in the judgments that they're incarnating Jesus, so to speak. And they're going to participate in actually killing the ones that, that they deemed to be the, the anti Christ or any Christs, which I would assume would be the, the real Christians. So, yeah, this is the great community revival. I've, I've looked at a number of their teachings. And to the point where it's my head is about to explode.

But the, the manifested sons of God theology, the idea of perfection, the idea of immortalization, in, in this life that's coming out of this camp, the idea of being

Christ, like, like, not Christ in us, like we think with the Holy Spirit, but an actual replication of Christ. And, and there's this kind of language and teaching. And I'm watching this in, in literally videos that are out there that anybody can watch. And I'm, I'm in shock, because I've seen a lot of the videos that are on YouTube that are correctly saying, hey, they're the NAR, you know, this movement is, is aberrant. And theologically, they're off, and, and biblically, they're off and all that. But I'm starting to, to go past that at, at the roots of this, and understand what the real motivation is. And the real motivation is the

thing that, that makes me want to blow the trumpet right now and sound the warning, run. and run from these teachers. Absolutely. You know, if you understand the history, this isn't really a theological issue.

This is a political issue. And if you go back to the roots of where all of this began, it was a political cult disguised as a religious cult. What's really odd is there were, if you go back to history and I go through this in my book, there were different movements, some of which were domestic terrorism, that were all coming together to form an ideology and an agenda.

And so when Christian identity was coming forward, the roots of it is what drove the manifested sons of God theology. And the problem was, British israelism had trained so many people of the notion that people of the Americas and of the UK, Great Britain, were descendants of the lost ten tribes of Israel, and therefore the chosen ones, the spiritual seed.

Everyone else is not. That framework that existed didn't really talk about the other side. It just talked about where the chosen ones, we have pride, you know, it was a way to, I guess, have self-esteem that you were just chosen seed of Abraham.

But people began to think, okay, well, what about those that aren't chosen? And that's really the problem with all of these types of movements. What about the other people? It becomes an us versus them mentality.

Well, in America you had Christian identity growing, which was basically that British israelism framework combined with racism. So they were starting to say that Catholics, Jews, and blacks were the other ones, were the good guys, they're the other ones.

And they were trying to literally trying to drive them out. When you talk about a purge, it was to be a purge. So when Laterane began sharing orphanage, there were men there who wrote books of how blacks were made in quote God's wisdom to serve whites.

That's coming from the Sharon orphanage, where Laterane, where the revival began. So they're teaching this type of mentality, this type of theology. Well, the doctrine emerged, manifests its sons of God for anybody who isn't familiar.

They believe that in the last days, we will become basically little gods. We will become manifest stations of God. And it's odd because over a period of time, they created a pyramid scheme of this.

Some people had a little manifestation, and if you're a apostle, you have a great manifestation, or a prophet, you also had a great. So created this hierarchical pyramid scheme of authoritarian control that mixed with the idea that we are going to purge out everyone who is not us, eventually, so we need to be prepared for it.

But while the movement is growing and spreading throughout the United States, Canada, and abroad, they really didn't talk about the... the agenda behind the doctrine. They just talked about the doctrine. So everybody who joined into it was excited, hey, I get to be a manifested son of God too.

I will become just like God, which is eerily similar to what Satan said in the Garden of Eden, if you really think about it. And this began to grow. Well, nobody's telling everybody who is joining into this that we have an agenda.

We are eventually going to purge out everyone who is not with us. And some people caught on to this. And eventually they began to think through that purge scheme. Okay, when we purge, what's it going to be like?

And we're going to use guns, weapons. How are we going to purge? So the idea of a sacred purge comes, the manifested son of God comes. All of this together is mixed with, if you listen to our converging apostasy with Stephen, I do, it's all mixed with the occult.

So they think they're going to summon something, which is really, really odd when you think about what's going on with Luangal right now. It's like they're going to summon this thing that is going to bring forth the purge or bring forth the manifestation.

You know, it's interesting what you were talking about. I was going to talk about something else, but I did watch the great communion revival

YouTube podcast, whatever it was. It was like five and a half hours long. And so incredibly informative. But one of the things that it happened, and I had watched another podcast where you did, John, where you're talking about the perusia or paracia, I'm not sure how you pronounce that in Greek, but they talk about presence a lot.

And at the 342 mark of the communion revival night at Bethel, you're talking about what they're trying to do. Luangal said, we invoke you. We invoke your presence. He never mentioned Jesus. Never mentioned Jesus at all.

He just was, and it was, to me, it was, it was horrible when I looked at it, but, and right before this, Dean Briggs was actually talking about communion. And I've been trying to understand like, why is it that they're so interested in presenting this great communion revival?

Why is it about communion? Why is it about the blood? Why is it about the body? And when you really think about their idea of what Christ in us means, they need this more Catholic, mystical, real presence of Christ to actually incarnate.

So what they want to do, it seems, is to have this presence and eat partake of the blood in the body of Jesus, which is the literal body of Jesus. blood of Jesus. So Barbara had edited Dean's book, The Great Communion Revival. And if you actually read that book, which was, I think we did that or you did that in 2023. But if you read that book, it's a book about dreams and it's a book about taking communion in a mystical sense.

So they're definitely trying to invoke something. To me, it's not the real Jesus. This is this is something else. And I think people are being duped like we've been duped in the past. And especially don't want to see believers go to this and get involved in this when there's a double meaning to the words. This is all semantics. And, you know, I'll just, I'll let you do that. Well, and even I think that the two pieces that are really a point that are just

not biblical to a level that's, is that you have all these, a lot of it is youth who are going to be converging on the mall. They're supposed to be having the biggest communion table in history.

They're going to build it on the last day. It's going to culminate. But when you listen to what they're talking about and even Dean's book, which has changed since I edited it, which is interesting.

But it is that mysticism, that Catholic, it's, you know, getting back to that is what they keep talking about, getting back to. And if you look at manifest sons of God and you look at some of the slides on Dean's Facebook and some of the things, it's not that Jesus was the Christ, is that Jesus had the Christ spirit. And so when they're, we're imbibing and we say it's Christ, it's not that Jesus is going to come back for the church. He's going to come back literally through the church. So, so this idea of purging and becomes really, really dangerous. When you

couple that with the effect, the idea that the Bible is very clear about taking communion in a, in a non-holy way. You will never hear them talk about sin. You are not hearing them talk about asking for the forgiveness of sin and cleansing us from our sin, which is what communion is.

It's, it's a memorial to what Jesus did on the cross to cleanse us from our sin. And, um, and it's, and it's a celebration of, of that. It's, it's, they often say bring, bring your shame.

Right. Bring your, your shame. Bring your questions to the table. And shame is, is a consequence of, of sin. Sin is at the root of it. And so if we're just dealing with shame, we're not dealing with the very root of the problem, which we are sinners and we need a savior. You know, I don't think I've ever talked about any of this, but, As I think through what you're saying and compare it to what I grew up with in Brannemism, it's very eerie and strange and scary all at the same time. So communion for us in the Brannem Tabernacle, it was done quite differently than everywhere

else. And there's a reason why, if you understand where all of this ideology came from, Christian identity taught that there was a good seed and a bad seed from the Garden of Eden. The serpent mated with Eve to produce the bad seed. And through that bloodline, it carried forth until the flood, which was the first great purge. So that's why they teach a second great purge. So the first great purge was when all of this was wiped out. However, they teach that one of Noah's children married a wife who had the bad seed in her. And so it survived

past the flood and then developed into what we see today. So literally they're teaching that good is the good blood, bad is the bad blood. William Brannem would preach these sermons, how if he had one drop of the literal blood of Jesus Christ and he would talk about how how precious it would be, he would hold it, he would adore it, he was so focused on the blood because of the bloodlines. So then whenever the communion service would happen, it wasn't the thing that is described in the Bible where everybody's joining together, they're happy, they're suffeased, it's literally communion with each other. You're coming to

join in, think about Christ, become a better person, all of this stuff. And Brannemism, it was taught that communion was the showdown. And the way the showdown worked is if you had questions, then you were sending because Brannemism taught that sin was unbelief. So if you came forward with questions and you drank it, you literally were drinking spiritual death. And if you came with sin in your life, which could stem from questions or whatever, you were drinking death unto yourself and you would literally die. And there were people during the communion service that would be so scared to walk up and get the little glass

because they thought they were drinking actual death and they would die from this. I remember this pool of people. And then those who went forward felt like they were the elite ones. At the end of the communion service, my grandfather would stand in what very look very much like a throne kind of thing. It was really weird nod. But he would stand there on this like a multi-tiered table with the wafers and the wine, et cetera. He put his two hands on it and say, now this that remains shall be burned before the dawn of another day.

And they were teaching that this had some sort of life in it, and that life had to be wiped out so that nobody else got that life from it, which is odd, if you think about it, but if you think about the communion as literal blood of Christ, which is kind of what they were, they didn't outright say it, but they were pushing you that direction, you were, you were basically drinking that bloodline into you, even if you didn't have the actual bloodline.

So the communion was purifying your blood in the way that they taught it, if you follow it out to its logical conclusion. Now, the ministers that existed, whenever I was growing up, many of them were unaware of Christian identity, many of them would consider themselves not to be racist, even though they taught that the races had to remain pure, or they too would be eternally damned.

So there's racism, and there's, I guess, not knowing that you are a racist, which was part of the problem. So it all comes all back to the bloodlines, and the literal purge that is coming for those that don't have the pure bloodline, that was the roots of all of this.

And what you're describing is just shocking to me that it continued past branemism. I guess it went underground because nobody talks about this until today, for years, from the 80s and from the, literally from, I guess, from the 60s until today, nobody's talking about it.

Suddenly, branemism re-emerges in places like Bethel and IHOP, and they're teaching the very, very core of what was pure racism, but they've taken the word race out of it, and they've transitioned it into something weird and new and scary all at the same time.

You know, that's exactly what they've done, and it's interesting. In Dean's book, he made an illusion to, you know, what if we got it wrong in the Reformation? And it's a book on dreams, which just goes from one dream to the next.

What if we got it wrong in the Reformation? What if the riches and the wonder of real presence, transubstantiation, communion, or more of a Catholic? What if it was lost in the transition? And it's funny when I came to this understanding, and especially for the listeners, because, I mean, this has been, I think it's like you said, John, where you see the roots of these things, and then you follow another root because it connects to this one, and you're connecting dots along the way.

That's how this all happened with me, and to look at this movement that's right in front of us, like literally hidden in plain sight using beautiful words, but all the words to say, you know, hey, we're even going to preach the gospel.

It might be a watered down gospel, a little bit, or even an appreciate, but yet if it's just a little bit off. it's got a little leaven in the lung. What does that do when you when you play the tape out?

So I was reading a book and it was a book on, it was just listening like 24 points on mysticism and how you could recognize it. And first couple, the cross of Christ is not so basis for redemption, the Holy Scriptures, they're not the complete single revelation of God to man.

These are some of the points that it was getting to. I got to point number seven and after reading Dean's book and watching some of the videos on the great communion revival, I almost smell off my chair because one of the points that he was talking about that is that direct, that has direct connection to mysticism is transubstantiation of the Eucharist becomes Christ in you. For example, symbols of the Holy Communion, namely the bread and the wine are transformed into the literal flash and blood of Jesus Christ. When when I read that, I thought, oh my goodness, that's, that's what they're

doing. They want the literal blood, the literal body of Jesus, they need that because they need to replicate Christ in this army of overcomers, a man-child company, whatever, whatever the terms may be. But I think what they want to do is call out an elite group through this movement to reveal the sons of God. Well, and I think that's the thing is one of the things that Kevin's been talking to me about is that they don't know who they are. And so they're gathering them all to a couple of things. They're going to be opening up this portal. This sounds so bizarre.

It just sounds like there's no way people could actually buy into this. But there's a portal thing. And when you look at mysticism and narcissism and the new age movement, it's eerily, eerily similar. You can lay them over each other and the language is the same. There's a point in one of the broadcasts that Dean says, I think it's Dean gives a definition of what they're doing. And then if you read the definition of narcissism, it's literally, he's literally saying the same thing. And so what they're trying to do is, since they don't know who the seed is, they're going

to gather everyone to take communion so that they can describe it better, but it's them they reference my figure chef and the lame. I have a hard time saying my figure chef. So the lame air of Saul who David invited found invited to his table because he was bringing everyone and he had been lame from birth.

but basically that the people that are coming might be lame and might not know but they're going to help identify but it's more it's more than that barb it's that the the lame are you know okay we've got the regular Bible believers the regular people that love Jesus share the gospel and do all that kind of stuff.

But there are those are considered the lame so they want to call the lame to up to a higher level and to be a part of this this elite group where you can you can move from being lame to being a manifested sun even though the Bible already tells us for for sons.

And then when you put that together with um it's it's alarming how all we are talking earlier John about the puzzle pieces um in in a stunning movement of the Lord I grew up in the hometown in Colorado where they are actually calling it a prototype city Andrew Womack is and Bill Johnson and but they are amassing what I mean there's there's some scary stuff that they talk about from the pulpit.

Because we've gone a couple times to the service just to kind of hear what they're talking about um and I think it's fascinating um just how all of these things are coming together and emerging at the same time um you know Luangal is not that far away down in Colorado Springs is probably about 25 miles from where Womack is and he's housed at every home for Christ and right now and so it's just fascinating to me how many of the ministries.

That are involved uh whether knowingly or unknowingly I'm not entirely sure I used to be a lot more clear uh about who was intentionally involved and now uh it's alarming to me that when you say hidden in plain sight uh you know I think that was a conversation we have with Dean like if this is the Bible why are you hiding why why are you not saying.

If this if manifest sense of God is in the Bible and where are your friends why are you not why are you not concerned that we're not embracing it I mean when I meet friends of mine that don't know the gospel I preach I tell them because I don't want them to be in hell so if this is really of the Lord according to your yeah I guess we weren't that great of friends because you yeah I think the threads of this have have gone into it it's crazy manifest sense of God the all.

The quality or however they've brought it across from from Latin rain the threads of it has have gotten into so many things so to determine to what level of person is there's a spectrum out there of percentages and uh and it's just interesting to see this is in global missions because any time.

time you gather people, you're getting together and they're wanting to get together in unity and if we're getting together in unity when somebody believes in something that is just completely evil, just on how we can do that.

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When I was growing up, there were many Bible passages that were either twisted or rewritten to mean something very similar to what the Bible said, but slightly different. And it was in that difference.

If you could find that difference, you could understand how to unravel the whole thing. But the problem is most people in it read the Bible through what was being said by the minister. They didn't read the Bible for what it said without the minister.

And one of the things that was taught, which now that I look back, it's just so odd, but it falls within the manifestant sons of God framework, we were taught to believe that Mary was an incubator, not the mother of Jesus.

So when Jesus said mother and declared that she was the mother, that was a passage that was strongly avoided in the movement because that defies what was being taught. She was not the mother of Jesus, she was nothing but an incubator, and that we were taught that within her womb, God manifested both the egg and the sperm to create some form of life that wasn't human, but yet came out of a human.

That's the weirdness that we were being taught. And if you understand all of the theology underneath that, which I could take weeks to try to explain it, it all comes back down to the bloodline because there is this good and evil bloodline.

The racists were openly declaring that the Jews and the blacks were the evil bloodline. So because Mary was a Jew, she can't have the bloodline, if you understand the theology, it has to be something that is birthed outside of this.

Well Brannum was popular to the non-racists, teaching the racist agenda while working with the heads of racist organizations. He can't openly say the racist thing, but what he can do is sway the masses to believe the racist theology without the words black or Jew.

So he called it the serpent seed, but basically it's the Christian identity to seed doctrine. He took out the words black or Jew, but he gave the historical lineage that all white supremacists believed developed the evil seed through the sons of Ham, I think it was.

It was widely believed by the racist that the sons of Ham all had black flesh. And so the sons of Ham brought forth the evil seed. So he took out the words black, but he gave the same lineage.

So anybody who's racist listening to him knows what he is saying. Anybody who's not, this is a hidden thing, this is a secret mystery. Well then he starts to follow up with this doctrine on what he called high breeding.

If you take a black person and a white person and they marry to produce what he called a mongrel, they create a hybrid person. So in that theology, he says that the hybrid person cannot enter the kingdom of God for 14 generations because the blood has mixed, the two seeds have mixed.

Now all of this was being taught without, I grew up, I did not know I was supposed to be a racist, had no idea, but I believe that the two races could not, that any of the races could not mix.

If you're white, you must stay white. Why is that? It's because of this racist ideology that they're withholding from the people. It's a secret thing. But in the elites of the cult, all of the ministers, some of the evangelists, they openly talked about this thing.

And they would say things like one of, one of Brannum's publicists says that in a sermon that Brannum said the serpent from the Garden of Eden was as black as the Ace of Spades, for example.

So they're teaching the racist thing in secret, but the people aren't aware. What's really scary about what you're telling me is it sounds as though many people who are in the upper echelons of the NAR are familiar with where this came from and why.

And they're not saying it to the people, but they're teaching all of the agendas, all of the doctrines, and it all comes back to exactly what Brannum was teaching. Yeah, John, it's amazing when you talk of that.

That's exactly. And we battle inside of ourselves, and this is kind of a gaslight situation. Like, are they just... and doing this, or do they know exactly what they're doing? It's interesting from my study of these three men, Luangal, Dean Briggs, and Chris Berglund.

I've determined that this is according to the Luangal. He mentioned that Chris Berglund has been dreaming for him for 40 years. He's the dreamer. He's the celestial man. He actually said he was leading the movement.

Luangal is just the mouthpiece. You've got Dean Briggs in between, who is chief strategist for a number of ministries. He's the strategist. I'm sure that there's that type of thing going on. Again, deceived or being deceived, deceiving others where they're at.

Personally, I think I agree with you. I think they know what they're doing. I think there's an agenda here. I think the agenda is completely evil. Again, with the upper echelon, like you said, knowing what is actually going on and having those conversations, but not telling the lame, the initiates, the people below, but then secretly calling out a group.

That's really what I'm talking about. Please, brothers and sisters, stay away, move out of this movement, get into your Bible and separate. I think that's the whole point. It feeds that narcissistic, elitist agenda, which is shocking because I can't tell you how many times in the Bible, God says he's no respecter of persons.

I find that fascinating. It's directly against Scripture that there's this elite subgroup. Jesus came to serve. When Jesus comes again, he will take care of those and come in judgment, but he's a kind, good, perfect leader in holiness and goodness.

His judgment will be true and perfect and just. If you're suspending one attribute for others, that's not biblical and that's not Jesus. If a group of people are self-appointing themselves and calling themselves elite, then it's very convenient that there's new revelation that nobody can verify, but it is outside the bounds of Scripture.

We talk about this all the time and that's the thing the people that I disciple are so tired of here. Read your Bible in its entirety. Marinate it. Not just read it once, check it off.

This is how we know what God sounds like. This is how we know what his voice is like. I think that was a thing that was so confusing. IHOPKC is so many people were getting words from the Lord and prophecy and moving in the prophetic and it was almost an idol. I would say it was to a lot of people, but it was outside the bounds of scripture. So they would be talking about things. I had a lengthy conversation with somebody who was leaving her husband because she was sure that God was telling her to and I'm like, okay,

that's not biblical. So there's, you can't just say every, every taco that you have for lunch is the Lord speaking to you and God does speak to his children and his sheep will know his voice, but his voice has to be in alignment with the word of God that's already there. And if there's anything that he's talking and giving impressions for today, it will not be outside the bounds of his nature, his character, his truth. It can't be otherwise he's a liar and Satan is the father of wise. So that's that's the thing. And as far as if they're intentionally deceiving, I really had

questions about that, but I am certain after our meeting in September of 2024 with Dean, I would be very, very stunned if there was an intentionality behind it. They're very smart. I think they know what they're doing. And Chris Berglund, you can watch him. He on his website and he talks about manifest sons of God. He is the only one that is actually calling it what it is and saying that and using that as a preaching tool, which is stunning in light of everybody else that's hiding it, but I guess at least he's being honest. Problem that I have with all of it is this,

whenever you take a Bible verse and you twist it ever so slightly where it looks sounds and feels like a Bible verse, but it's just slightly twisted to the people who aren't familiar enough with the Bible to understand how it's twisted and why it's twisted and accepted and believe it. They're more easily programmed. And what I mean by this is the way it worked in Brannemism is one passage would be slightly twisted like the Garden of Eden example I gave. Well, if you twist that and then suddenly there is a bad blood and a good blood in in the world where every passage of

scripture that talks about the saved can't talk about the bad blood. So now you've just divided the world in half. There's only half the people that can even be saved. So passages like for God so loved the world, it changes and alters that meaning for God so loved this half of the world that has the good blood or the good seed. Every single verse that they do this what they do is they follow with doctrines overloading and sometimes twisting other verses, but you have to read those verses through the ones that were twisted originally. So what happened for me is whenever I left this thing,

I had to read the Bible over and over to wipe all of this out of my head, because I would read a passage, but in my head, indoctrinated, was that passage that I was reading, plus all of the building blocks of other scriptures that had been twisted, so I could never understand what it was that I was reading.

I was, instead, understanding the underlying agenda across all of the verses. And this became like a spaghetti mess of, in my head, it was just so difficult to untangle that. I had to start from scratch, pretend that I knew nothing, read it for what it said, and then I was still doing it, because it's all programmed.

The fact that you're still doing this to people today, still programming it in the same way, it's really scary, because when you do this to a brain, you're literally hijacking not only what the Bible says for a specific passage, but the overall plan of salvation.

The plan of salvation is not the same for these people. Either with us or you're against us. If you're outside of our agenda, whatever that agenda is, you're part of the evil seed. You're not one of the good guys.

If you have questions, you're part of the evil seed, because Satan is the bringer of confusion, the bringer of all doubts. So you're part of the evil seed. That's why when you see people discussing religion or politics on Facebook or any of the social medias, it turns into an immediate fight, because it's that ideology.

You're either with us or you're against us. You're either of the good seed or you're of the bad seed. Absolutely. John, I was going to jump in on this, and this is really where we're coming from.

You're talking about a situation where it's almost gaslighting. If we go back to Genesis 3.1 where the serpent deceives Eve by saying, has God indeed said, saying that question, questioning Eve to whether she actually heard God or not?

This is what happens with this movement. I'm talking about the NAR, Apostolic Prophetic Movement, the Great Communion of Revival, but playing off of what you just said, the main point is deliberately altering the Bible by creating kind of a new framework from the very beginning.

That's what they do with dominion theology. It's a new understanding, and then it becomes a grid through which all future interpretation is kind of seen through. It's somebody said to us the other day, it's like a mash-up in music where you take an original song, but you overlay another instrumental track over top of it, and then when you're done, it becomes a new song.

That's essentially what we're saying here is that this is not the same song that they're singing. This is a different song completely, and I don't want to sound the wording for that, but it's...

So, so true, what you just said. Well, it's very convenient that there's only a handful of super elite people that know all of the truth and all of the points. So, if you don't know, it's okay, sweetie, let's head past.

It's okay because we're the ones that will tell you what you need to know. And we don't expect you to know because you need us to know. And so it's very convenient because it makes it set up that, you know, reminds me of some of the other false religions where one person knows the Bible.

And if I want to know it, I have to get it from this person. And I think that's one of the things this biblical literacy is so high right now. And it's fascinating because in the West, specifically in the United States, we have so much access with not just having Bibles that you can go into a store and buy without it being illegal, but we have a literacy rate here that allows people to actually be able to read.

I think in other parts of the country, the last statistic I knew worldwide was 74% of the world is not literate in their native language past the fourth grade level. That's 74%. So we have such an abundance when I read in my Bible to whom much is given, much is required.

I think that I have access. That's a big deal to me. And so we had a conversation recently with someone who was like, well, you know, this isn't really our lane. I'm glad you guys are doing it. We believe what you're saying is the Lord.

But you know, that's not really ours. And I'm like, when who's is it? If we're not going to talk, this isn't my favorite thing. This isn't what I want to do early in the morning.

I want to, you know, be outside with the Lord in nature and walking and talking to him about his word. But I also love him enough to love his church and the true church.

And we have a responsibility as people who love God and love our brothers and sisters to go, hey, you know what? Don't believe us. Don't believe me. Don't believe John. Don't believe Kevin. Read it yourself.

Take your Bible. Stop listening to all the other voices, even ours. And just sit with the Lord because the Bible, it says the Holy Spirit will teach you what he wants you to know.

And it might take a minute because like you said, John, it's, you know, I call it the ball of yarn with big knots in it, but you, this spaghetti, same idea. There's a lot of stuff in there that, that is even my own perspective and my own ideas that are wrong.

And God is bigger. He's big enough to teach us what he wants us to know. You got to trust that. What's really odd is I hear you talking whenever you think about how the religion the NAR version of the Christian religion has changed.

It has changed in such a way that it is history repeating itself. The Protestant church came out of the Catholic church for many of the same reasons, and whenever Catholicism began to spread in the United States, you had organizations like the Klan, like Christian identity, that were saying that literally the invasion of Rome in the United States was becoming apocalypse, and they were trying to fight it.

They were all of these movements. In fact, I just came across several new newspaper articles yesterday that I have to go through talking about the rise of Mussolini and how his ties to the Catholic church would bring the end of the world.

This was dominating the movement when Mussolini was in power. And yet, at the same time, everything that they stood against the Catholic church for, they're now doing within the NAR, trying to limit who has access to the Bible, etc., who has control of the doctrines, trying to set up the apostles as popes.

The whole structure very, very eerily matches, and you think about things like the Spanish Inquisition where they're just coming in trying to force the religion on people. That's what the NAR is doing. This sacred purge, it's literally what we saw back in the 1600, 1700s, Catholic church was doing this with other nations.

This is a horrific thing that is happening, but its history repeating itself because people aren't familiar with the Bible and they're not familiar with the history. Thanks for your time, John. It's interesting, too, because as you talk about Catholicism, and the fact that the popes were in control and the church was married to the state, and even through the Reformation, one of the things that we apparently didn't learn was that that doesn't work.

Because even in the Reformation, we relied upon the state, even John Calvin in Geneva and some of the atrocities that happened there with just burning people at the stake. And killing people in the name of Jesus.

Again, the Protestants, we got justification by faith, but we carried on some traditions that were pretty core. And I think that it's like you said, it's happening today. Dominionism as a whole has been something that's been with us since probably since Constantine, maybe a little bit before.

And it's ebbed and flowed throughout the history of the Christian church, but they're always being a remnant of believers. But it's come and gone, and now it's reappeared. And it's the latter reign has exploded onto the...

on to the current scene and it's really, really concerning us. We want to just, we want to make everybody aware of it, at least start looking into this and move away from it. And they know that the ladder rain, I think there's enough intellect that people are going, okay, there's certain things we shouldn't be saying.

If we want to, you know, we shouldn't be saying them openly. I think that's the thing, but, you know, you look at some of this idea of the, the downlines and, you know, people like TAYON has 25,000 churches in his downline.

And they tied to him, his apostolic network, so that they can have access to his miracles and his wonders and signs, his prophetic, but, but what most people don't know is that Louis Engel is the prophet for TAYON.

They're all kind of interconnected and TAYON's about to run for governor, apparently, of California, which is very fascinating and very scary, but they're, but I think that's the thing is, there's this, this anger and this, you know, we have to take everything over, and I think the thing that to me is the most horrific as somebody who loves Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible, is when I hear people tell me that they are going to, you know, we have to take over all the spheres of society, because we have to give Jesus the keys to his kingdom when he comes

that we're going to take it over, up into including weapons, so that when Jesus returns, we're going to hand him the keys to his kingdom. And I just look at my Bible and say, okay, when did David get in the most trouble?

Oh, when he didn't go to war when he was supposed to, because he was the king. And Jesus is the king. He's coming back to establish his kingdom on earth. He came as a servant the first time, and we're called to be likewise until he returns.

So there's not a new mandate for us. We're to stand in what God has done and love people well, according to the gospel. And it's not about community transformation. It's about transforming parts and lives through the gospel unto transformation in other ways.

Everything else, just community transformation, this, this, you know, Christianizing through the seven mountains, that's just morality. That's not the Bible. Yeah, let me just tag on to that. It's funny, because you're talking about Tayon and these guys, the, in the great communion revival, actually, communion revival night at Bethel in the very beginning at about the 22 minute mark.

Chris Vallatin from Bethel had mentioned a righteous revolution in the next four. years, followed by a righteous reformation. Now, I'm not sure if he's talking about the political leader that's in office right now, or if they're talking about some sort of crazy thing that they're actually trying to lose, which is really, really concerning.

And I wanted to bring this up because I'm not sure what they're talking about. But I've heard the rhetoric about purge and civil war and things of this nature. So, again, not to alarm everybody, but it is concerning.

When we hear this kind of language, this kind of militant language coming out of this group that this language never came from Jesus. He said, his kingdom is none of this world. And he went to the cross.

And we're supposed to do the same. You're right. It is extremely scary. And if it has the same foundations as what I'm describing, which it appears to, it is actually a risk for the democracy.

So, this is a bigger, much bigger deal than just religion. This is really, really bad. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Can you tell everybody where to find you on the internet?

Yeah, you can find us, man, we're so new. I don't even know how to type in Elegrino Walk. We've got a YouTube channel. And maybe we can include it in the description, John, where we talk about this, and we're gonna be expounding upon this idea of gaslighting of Christianity through the men of the great communion revival over the next probably three weeks to a month, where we can really get into doubt on some of the dominion teaching and manifest sons of God teaching.

That's just so incredibly scary. And teaching what the Bible actually says, pointing people to the real Jesus, real Jesus. The real gospel, the Bible. Well, that's awesome. It's a good work that you're doing.

Thank you so much for doing this with me today. Thank you for having us. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-Branum.org.

For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible. You can find us at www.William-Branum.org.

You can find us at www.William-Branum.org