The Prophet Who Wouldn’t Speak: Prophetic Mystery Words and Incantations

Hello, welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my co-host, minister and friend, Chino Ross, pastor and the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Chino D. Ross, YouTube channel. Chino, it's good to be back and to talk about all things hidden from the eyes of the lowly people of the church and I never forget I was studying Branhamism after I left. It's funny how after I left I studied it even more

than when I was in it and that's saying an awful lot but whenever I began to study it I found things that were just so unusual and you and I have talked before about this but the biblical definition of a prophet is a person who is letting himself completely out of the way and God is speaking through him much like a man who's holding a megaphone. The megaphone does not do any of the talking, the man who is holding it and speaking does the talking. Well the biblical prophets were just the megaphone for God, the channel from which the

church could receive the blessing or the instructions from God but yet the the way in which this developed into a movement where the megaphone had complete control of what was being said gets really odd and you take it a step further.

Some of the things that they would say that they had as a prophetic voice or whatever was not always given to the people and I'll never forget whenever I came across this and this statement was made often. 1948 is the first time that we have access to here but William Brandham said now here's where it is. There's three words that I have to repeat at that time and he's talking about before he goes into a healing line and he says it's the three high words of the Bible. No mortal on earth knows it and whenever I say that I start feeling the spirit

and then they've cut the tape so you can't hear whatever happened with the spirit and that's the reason and then he goes on and says that's the reason you hear me say it. So in a twofold manner number one God and this three high words whatever it was was not intended for the church to hear it was only intended for the prophet so the people weren't getting the three high words or the special thing of the Bible but the editors weren't even allowing you to hear what the three high words were used for, so the people were completely

clueless of what was going on entirely. And you and I were talking just a little bit before this of some of the things Hobart was doing and the people weren't fully aware and it reminded me of how unusual this is. If God is wanting to lead a movement and tell people what they're supposed to know, behave, instructions, everything about it, it's odd that some of it gets withheld from the people. Yeah, we got a lot of clips to play today from Dr. Freeman John and I really want the people to get to hear Hobart himself saying what he's going to say. You know, when I look at

whenever I join this group or this movement, I think people join groups like this for a variety of reasons. I don't think we can really lump all of the people following IHOP or the message or Hobart Freeman or any of these movements in one large basket and say that they're all the same.

I think depends on what the what the minister is saying, but I know that there were a lot of people that joined Dr. Freeman's ministry because of the health and wealth part of it. There were people that were sick, you know, a message like Hobart is really, really appealing. If you've got a terminal condition or you have a chronic condition, you have something that you've tried to get medical help for and haven't been able to because I was in this when I was young, 17 years old. I didn't have any health issues. So even though I believe what Hobart taught about divine healing and I don't believe

that same message today, that's not one of the things that was attracting me. And I think the same is true with the wealth part of it. If you're down on your luck and you're, you know, a young family and you go to these meetings and you hear all you have to do is just name it and claim it.

Just claim prosperity, claim the abundant life and God will give it to you. Well, again, I'm 17 years old. I'm living at home with my parents. Both of my parents had professional jobs. We lived in a house that my parents had built on a lake down in Northwest Mississippi and they had professional jobs up in Memphis across the state line. So my dad was a vice president of a bank.

My mom worked at a private medical laboratory called Malsphero Laboratory in Memphis. So, you know, we didn't have any financial needs and being 17 years old, I wasn't sick. So I didn't have any I didn't have any health needs. I was going and listening to Dr. Freeman's tapes as were so many other people because of the promise of a deeper walk and a or not-legive Lord. And I think there were a lot of people there for that reason. But I think there's also another reason that people would attend something like a Freeman meeting and would become

involved in the new apostolic reformation. And that is this, that these ministries, I think, all in common, promised the people some kind of great future thing in the ministry and ministry that they could be a part of. And I almost compare it with companies and products today that just offer more than they can deliver. You know, this is a ministry that could easily oversell itself.

There was so much hype, there was so much propaganda that these ministries couldn't deliver on, but yet they kept on talking about it. And what I have referenced too is when, you know, we talked in a few message, a few podcasts to go about the five-fold ministry. Hobart very much believed in apostles and prophets. He believed they were in the church back then. And they're in the church today. And he had several different ways to explain the apparent lack of apostles and prophets.

One in today's church, one of the ways he used would be to say, well, they were in the church for the first few centuries until Constantine kind of Christianized the Roman Empire, whenever he brought heathenism and paganism into the church and the Holy Spirit left the church.

And now in these last days, God is restoring, you know, what the early church had but was lost during the time of Constantine. That's one way of explaining it. The other way, and he used both methods, by the way, to explain the apparent lack of prophets and apostles today. The other way to explain it was they were there all along. They were just tucked away. They were hidden in a cave in a foreign country in a monastery. They were just tucked away. But one way or the other, God has prophets and apostles today. And so this was put out there,

as I don't know, carried on a stick for the people, sitting under His ministry to think, well, maybe could I be a prophet or could I be an apostle? I was a pastor of a church and we had a guy show up there one time who said he was a prophet. And he was, you know, 20-something years old and wet behind the years, had a little young wife. And, you know, he was no more a prophet than misjumpers as a prophetess.

My beloved sidekick back there and he didn't last in the church long, you know, what do you do when someone shows up in your church, you know, and say, I'm a prophet and God has sent me here.

And I'm telling you, there are a lot of churches that would be happy and rejoice and fearful and fall down trembling, but I'm just not cut out like that. I mean, if you are Elijah, that's wonderful, but I'll somehow find out about it in a very convincing manner and it won't be by you handing me a calling card or you just telling me, I'm a prophet and God sent me here.

But this was, and he didn't last in our church very long, by the way, I don't know, I don't remember his story why he left. I just think he wasn't given the platform of a prophet, maybe didn't feel welcome in so he left. But, you know, he didn't have any power or authority to call down some judgment because I'm here I am, that's been more than 30 years ago and I'm still alive today.

And all of these other guys who claim that there's something, and if you don't agree with him, you know what that means, they have power. They have power to call down things. Well, nobody's ever been killed by any of these guys, nothing's ever happened. They've told fabricated stories that, well, that brother went out after he criticized me and then he had a car wreck. Well, but none of that stuff is true. It's just, I mean, the things are going to happen, let's make sure that they happen in open view and in public.

But I have a little excerpt from a message Hobart taught, what I said right then, was just a preface to it. And the message was entitled, the office of the prophet and the gift of prophecy. He did a two-part teaching on this. This is in part two. And it was done, listen to this, in 1970, he was teaching a regular meeting in a lady's home. So when you listen to these early messages, they're really fun to listen to because it's close quarters. It's not an auditorium.

It's not a church. He's actually in the basement of a home in Muncie, Indiana. And the way I know these things, I don't have any special insight. I don't have any x-ray vision to determine any of these things. They're all on the tapes. If you listen to 1157 of his tapes, you find all of these things. You hear him make multiple references to the same story or the same event. And when you hear it the second and third time, and you've done this, John, with Brannum sermons, you go, wait a minute, now you're telling that differently than when you told it before. And he doesn't remember how he

told it before. But fortunately for us, it's all on tape. It's recorded. So you can go back and hear the way he told it before. And look, I'm happy to give people a pass.

I'm sure I've told a story a little differently on more than one occasion. I'm not holding anybody to something. I wouldn't hold myself to. I'm happy to give people a pass that their memory has failed them.

But when you look at the types of things that their memory is failing them about,

they're just too big of an issue to let pass. Maybe they said it was Tuesday and it really happened Wednesday. Okay, I'm fine with that. But it's the other details that calls a problem.

So in this message, what we're gonna do, John, is listen to, and people are welcome to go hear these for themselves, but I'm pretty sure people are busy in their lives, and only a die-hard researcher is gonna go back and hear this entire message and hear this statement in his context.

So for the benefit of busy people, we'll play it for them. The 29-minute 58-second mark. It's only about a minute long to the 30-minute and 50-second mark, if you could play that for us.

Now, there can be profits and profituses in this room. I don't know. I don't know that they've been called right out of Claypool for them super-matchily, out of Claypool. So when they are, when they're called, and when you're called, you may be a potential one now.

So I'm not trying to discourage you by saying, don't function till you are, but don't function till you are. Till you know it.

I had one of you in very old teenagers, 15, 16 years old, just like Paul St. Corinthians 12, caught up in the spirit. Right over Claypool, caught right up, bosses in Claypool, taken all through heaven, all around the world, given many prophecies.

I'm calling you to be my prophetess. Just a little girl. So she came back and looked down. There was a green roof, you know, Claypool, right? Where were meeting? He came down there to spirit, right back there.

Well, it's... So I actually have a transcript of what he said. And I generally do have a transcript of all of these things, even though we're playing them for people to hear. You know, I would have to go back and hear it myself to remind myself of everything he said if I didn't have it in front of me.

And I have this one in front of me. So he's teaching in this home in Muncie, Indiana, in a lady's basement, he's gonna make reference to the meetings that are also happening in his own home.

They met in his home in Claypool, Indiana, underneath the water tower. And we can even give people a picture of the water tower, which still exists right there in downtown little Claypool, Indiana. But here's what he said, John.

He said, now, there can be profits and profitists in this room. This is a big group of... women in a basement in Muncie, Indiana. It's like a women's prayer group or Bible study. And you can just hear all the women laughing and giggling and responding and talking.

It's really fun to listen to these old messages. Because you know it's just in this nice, comfortable, intimate environment. Everybody's husbands at work. Because you can tell it's all a group of women down here listening to Hobart Freeman teach in their basement.

He said, I don't doubt it that they're going to be prophets and prophetesses called right from this room. He said, they've been called right out of clay pool, friends, supernaturally out of clay pool.

You may be a potential one now. Here is this propaganda being promised to these women who are just baking bread and sending kids off to school. Maybe you can be Anna or Deborah or Hall does a prophetess.

And he tells this story and he's told this story on many occasions, but I have a point I want to make when I finish relaying what story he told. He said, we had one young girl teenager, 15, 16 years old.

Just like Paul, 2nd Corinthians 12, caught up in the spirit, right over clay pool. Right when she was in clay pool, taken all through heaven, all around the world, given many prophecies, I'm calling you to be my prophetess, just a little girl.

But she came back, looked down, and there was the green roof, you know, clay pool, right where we were meeting, came down in her spirit right back into her body. End of the relaying of that.

Wow, I mean, what an incredible. So he is telling us that a 15, 16 year old teenage girl was caught up just like Paul, just like Paul to the 3rd heaven in 2nd Corinthians 12, just like Paul, when he was preaching, caught up from their clay pool meeting to heaven, called to be a prophetess, shown all these visions carried around the world, came back, looked down, saw the green roof of the house where they were meeting there in clay pool, her spirit comes back into her body, and now she's going to be a prophetess.

Here's the interesting thing though, John, surely if that had happened, and that girl had been called out of this local little church to be a prophetess and became something important and something significant, we would never have heard the end of that.

That would have been proof positive of everything. The girl was called, but we don't know who she was, and we never heard another word about her. I've done several studies on what it is to be a con artist.

The psychology behind a con artist is, for me, it's fascinating. And there are different character traits that people have, and one of them is the gift of gab. If you can distract the people with as many ridiculous stories as you can possibly give while injecting what you want them to hear inside of that story, you can convince them of almost anything.

And I had a conversation with a guy who had left the brand name called, and he said, you know, half of William Brannum's stories wouldn't be so bad if he instead started them with me and the boys were out having drinks one night and, and then go proceed with whatever is the story.

But it's that way with not just Hobart Freeman, Brannum, all of these people that you listen to. They just tell the most wild stories, and people, because it is framed in that context that it's in the spiritual, and it's this wild story that nobody would believe if he just walked up on the street and said, hey, did you realize that this person was caught up to third heaven and our church?

Most people just ignore it, right? But because of the way that it's presented in these groups, they're thinking, oh, that must be the case. And they start believing it, well, then it turns into doctrine.

The funny part about all of this is, try to picture if that actually became set in stone as a doctrine going forward, and all of these people suddenly did rise up to be prophets in the group.

Do you think he would have even allowed it in the early years of Brannumism? Everybody could see visions, and there's this one quote, and I wish I could find it again. Brannum says, it's just like beans and gravy.

It sticks to your side. You can say, thus say, if the Lord anybody can do it, you can do it. I can do it. But if people and people did, people started doing this, and he started blasting them from the pulpit because he felt like they were encroaching on his prophetic authority.

And that's really where this comes into a head, is whenever the group becomes so destructive that it turns into a central figure model, all of this, you too, can be a prophet. All of this goes away.

Yeah. But John, it was taught in a series of teachings about prophets and prophetesses and apostles, so you're going through the Bible and you're looking at prophets in the Old Testament and apostles in the New Testament.

You're really laying this groundwork and this foundation. Of course, Hobart was just an expert in interweaving with the biblical narrative, all of the extra biblical narrative of Dowie and John G. Lake and Gordon Lindsay and Brannum and Co and Oral Roberts and A. Hay Allen and, you know, he was an expert.

So it became really difficult for the people to distinguish between what was true and what wasn't, you know, reality and just a mirage. It becomes very difficult when you can skillfully weave a biblical narrative with an unbiblical narrative.

And I can, I just know by having heard so many of Hobart's early messages and I remember myself as a teenager hearing that, I never, never once that I can remember in my life ever felt I was called to do anything except pastor and teach.

I've never felt called to be a prophet and I'm glad to say that I never even back when I was a teenager thought, oh yeah, maybe that's me. But I definitely felt other people could be called because that's what Hobart said.

And after all, this 16 year old girl, she got called to be one. So, you know, why couldn't everybody else? I just know the feeling of those poor ladies in that meeting. And as I started this podcast with John, people are attracted to these movements for different reasons.

Some people are attracted for the study of the Bible. And so this prophet, prophetist, they don't really pay a lot of attention to that. But there are other people that are attracted to movements like this because of the hype and propaganda.

They don't realize that it's hype and propaganda. But because of these great things that are being promised to them, they want to be a part of that. They want to experience that. And so, I mean, down to this day, the NAR movement, the New Apostolic Reformation, Mike Bickel's group in Kansas City, Paul King's following, and you know, just everybody.

They want to believe that these things can and will happen and that they're going to be the one to do it. Jeff Barnett was a follower of Hobart Freemans from the get-go. I mean, from the very beginning, he heard all these promises and he watched Hobart live and die and Bruce Kenzie live and die and the ministry fall apart and the church fall apart.

And guess what, 50 years later, he's still out there promising the same things to his group. You know, it's just like they're so thick in the skull, they aren't willing to slow down, pump the brakes and back up and look at what they have believed and what they have taught.

Is there really going to be some kind of end time where God calls all these prophets and apostles and I don't know, the world is converted? I think the reason that Hobart could say what he said and accomplish what he accomplished as far as getting people to believe these outlandish things is because he felt that he himself had a very special ministry and he communicated that- at in no uncertain terms to his congregation when he would say in so many words, and we're gonna listen to his words, but hey, you people out there, look, look up here,

look at me, look at who's standing behind the podium. You are looking at a very unique ministry, a very special person. Now, he didn't say it the way I just said it, but he said that, he said that very concept in his own words.

He said it in a way that is humble, and he said it in a way that protects that belief of his from being challenged by the people out there, but in effect, what he says is, look at me, I'm somebody special.

So here is a message taught in the glory barn in 1976, entitled, correcting misconceptions about faith, deliverance, and healing. So there were a lot of issues that were popping up, and they were all due to all the hope arts, just rapid fire, chasing, rabid's teaching, and so people are saying, well, if that's true, then this must be true.

And if he said that, I can do this. And so he was trying to reel people back in. And so this is a pretty long message, but if we go to the one hour, 16 minute, and 57 second timestamp, and again, it's a very short one.

It's about a half of a minute. And if we play to the one hour, 17 minute, and 35 second, Mark. We could say more, but to say it would sound burstful.

Where God has not only shown me, but shown others things. And I'm going to say one thing while we're on the subject. My is also a God gave a sister, and it's only confirmed.

God recently gave a sister a revelation, and spoke to her directly and said that he's reserved the faith message for the end time, the full faith message he reserved for the end time. And he went on to say, and I revealed the full message to only one man.

I don't say anymore because the rest of the revelation is obvious. So again, I've gotten most of this, and I'll just kind of paraphrase it. But he said to these people, the background of the clip is how important his ministry, his faith ministry has been for 10 years now.

He got the baptism down in Dallas, Texas, or I'm sorry, he got the faith message called down in Dallas, Texas in 1966. So we're about 10 years later. He said, God's confirmed the importance of my ministry, the proof is in the pudding, and if we would have to defend that, then it wouldn't even be worth doing.

That's what he... trying to say. So then he says this, he said, we could say more, but it would sound boastful. And then he goes on to say more. And he says, but, but I'm going to say this one thing while we're on the subject. And as people heard in the clip, he said, God recently gave a sister. And there's always a sister or a brother. And they're always unnamed.

And I mean, wow, I mean, John, this is so unscientific. It is so cult like everything in the Bible was documented. We knew the prophet. We knew where he lived. We knew everything. There was none of this. Just somebody floated down out of heaven and gave a word to somebody that then passed it on. And we're just supposed to believe that. Thankfully, the miracles in the Bible were indisputable miracles. Everything that happened was done in plain view, in plain sight.

And you know, with these type of ministries, it's always it was an unnamed sister or most of the time it was something that happened overseas. You know, you know, yeah, John G. Lake or William Branham or this person, they were in this crusade in Nigeria. And 50,000 blind eyes were opened.

And they just go, and when you're young or when you're old and gullible and when you just want to believe that, you just believe it. But when you just push the pause button for a moment and say, are you kidding me? 50,000 blind eyes opened at one time. I mean, surely there's a record of that somewhere in some newspaper. Anyway, I digress. God recently gave a sister a revelation and spoke to her directly. And I always pause when I hear God spoke to someone directly because I said, as I said last time, John, what I'm doing right now is I'm speaking directly. And when you talk,

you're speaking directly. It's heard by many people. It's recorded words are being used. Most of the time, what these type of ministers mean when they say God spoke directly is there was an inner impression in the person's mind or their spirit. And they felt that God was intimating, passing along to them, some kind of knowledge spoke directly means God spoke out of heaven and said that he had revealed the full faith message for the end time to only one man.

I don't say anymore because the rest of the revelation is obvious. Oh my. And how gullible are these poor people? But someone like Hobart or William Brannam or any of these other con artists are adept at using this to deceive the people.

people into thinking of them as being something so much more important than they are. But here we go. I mean, let everyone test this. There is an end time message of faith number one, and I would say whatever that is, I don't even, I don't see that anywhere in the Bible that there's an end time message of faith.

You gotta accept that number one. There's an end time message of faith, and then number two, that he has revealed that full faith message just to one person. That's the second thing you have to accept that God would really hide this from everybody in the world that he would only give the full end time message of faith to one human being.

Wow, I mean, think how much, think of what you're saying when you are willing to admit that, and then the third thing you have to be willing to admit is that that one person is Hobart Freeman, and that's just asking a whole lot of anybody to swallow.

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There's a point that you made that I want to go back to. Actually, they're quite a few, but there's one main point that I want to go back to. You're talking about how 50,000 blind eyes opened and across the seas, we don't have any record of this.

We heard stories of 100,000 crutches being carried away, trucks and truckloads of crutches being carried away. And I find it interesting that the only evidence of this that ever exists are in magazines like the voice of healing.

These religious publications have them. And yet it didn't make international news. Are you kidding me? This whole world would have known had this actually happened. And Charles and I have gone through in our revival history series.

We actually talk about some of those events that happened overseas and doctors who are actually there present for these alleged healings, claiming I was sitting there right on the front row. I know the people that went up to that line and I watched them die later.

And one of the deaths actually made in the religious... Propaganda News Letters, one of the most famous deaths there made front page on the Propaganda News Letters saying, this was one of God's greatest healings, and by the time it was printed, the person had actually died, so who you're going to believe, the guy who's dead or the newsletter.

But the other point that you made and it all kind of ties together, I, you don't know this, but today I released a video talking about kingdom power versus Christian holiness. And I did it myself because anytime I talk about holiness, all of the cults want to attack the person who's there with me in the podcast.

This person is unholy, they're unclean, they've left our cult, therefore we should despise them and they, they should be scorned publicly. So I did it myself to talk about this, but I walk through what holiness means in the cults versus what it means in the Bible, which is a vastly different thing.

Usually when you're in one of these destructive cults, holiness means your believers of our cult and you're not on the outside and those who are on the outside are unholy. And it all comes down to this that I'm building up to this thought.

Whenever these people, like you and I both have said, con artists, whenever these con artists are tricking people to believe that this great move of God is happening, it's only for one purpose so that they can present themselves as the reason that this move of God is happening.

And they want to position themselves into what has been dubbed the Moses model. They want to be the Moses that led God's people out. And if you read the New Testament, that Moses model gets completely replaced.

It's not something that is in existence for Christianity. This was for the old covenant. And the passage that I used whenever I was going through the podcast, Matthew 20, Jesus is talking. He says, it's the rulers of the Gentiles who lowered over them and their high officials exercise authority over them.

He says, not so with you, instead whoever wants to become great must be your servant. That's the model that Jesus made. There's Jesus and then there's everybody else. I don't care if you claim to be a prophet or a apostle.

But what they've wanted to do is they want to say that Jesus was wrong and the scriptural model for us to bring down the kingdom of heaven is for us to rule an authority over you.

That's the model that's established by every single cult. And it's complete rejection of Matthew 20. And I published it and I'm actually responding to some of them while you're talking. But I'm getting this onslaught of hate mail and comments of people who say no, no, no, you can't say this.

There's not a declaration anywhere where the apostles and prophets have ceased, which isn't what I said at all. But... It's that Moses model that's the problem, and the way that I responded, I said, basically, I'm not a pastor, that's a conversation for your pastor, go talk to him.

However, when you have that conversation, look at what is it? First, Timothy, Christ is the only, Christ is the mediator. You need no other mediator. First Peter talks about the priesthood of all believers, not a single person. Hebrews, the opening statements in Hebrews talks about direct revelation through Christ, and the body model, I think it's Ephesians, both Ephesians and Corinthians, talk about the entire body, not a single authority over you. So wherever you're in one of these systems where there is a central figure, and he says, it's my way, I have the only true doctrine, you must believe me. You're in a model that is actually rejecting

the words of Jesus. Yes, John, and to further your point, when the apostle Paul who was like Moses, he was a tremendous apostle, but when it came time for him to boast, if we read 2 Corinthians 12, he said, when I'm going to boast, I'm going to boast in my weaknesses, my infirmities, my distresses, my persecutions, that's what he was boasting in. He didn't boast about anything else. He said, because when I am weak, then I am strong. When he came to the Corinthians, he said, I determine not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

And Paul definitely had the signs of the apostles, and we're able to work miracles, but it just wasn't in Paul's head. He wasn't going around telling everybody else, you can be an apostle like me, and you can be a prophet. He wasn't telling anybody. He wasn't a apostle, called by the Lord Jesus Christ, but he was a humble man. I just love the stories that Luke gives of him in his narrative about Paul and his travels with him in the book of Acts. Paul would go and I mean, had these incredible experiences, but then if you tracked him down the next day, you know

where he was? He was back in a leather shop. Acts 19 says, he was making things. He was a tentmaker. He was a leathermaker. He was sewing these little handkerchiefs and aprons, and he was working on things. And then when it came time to preach, he would go preach and he had cast demons out of people and raise the dead. But then he wasn't on some platform, you know, beating his chest like King Kong. If you went to find him the next day, he was back over there sweating and toiling making things. And I look at that. That's all in Acts 19. It's all in the Bible. I'm amazed by

that. And then if you read Acts 20, when Paul is calling for all the Ephesian elders from the church and Ephesus to come to Miletus, he's on his way back to Jerusalem. He doesn't stop in Ephesus. He stops at the port of Miletus and calls for them to come there.

and they come. And then in the second half of Acts 20, he has this beautiful sermon that he preaches to them and he charges them. He said, God has made you overseers. Make sure you take care of the flock. He warns them about wolves coming in and sheep's clothing. He warns them. He said, men will arise of your own selves and try to draw away disciples. He warns them of all that.

But then when he gets to the little autobiographical section, do you know what he says? He said, I haven't coveted anybody's clothes or silver or gold. He said, I have provided with my own two hands for all of my own financial needs and for all of my traveling companions.

And he is the apostle who had the right to collect money from people in exchange for being in an apostle and teaching them. If anyone had the right to take up a personal offering, it would be the apostle Paul. I mean, just think of that. If anyone had the right to take up a personal offering for himself, and I would say nothing against it, I'd say, you go right ahead, Paul, you deserve it with all you've been through. He didn't. He said, I worked hard. I had a side and I worked hard and I made enough money I could provide for myself and I could provide for

all of my traveling companions. I just go to that story in my life and mind, John, all the time to remind myself the greatest Christian that the church has probably ever known is the apostle Paul.

The greatest Christian may well be the apostle Paul. And just as you said, he knew the teachings of the Lord Jesus that if you want to be great in God's kingdom, you have to learn to be the servant of all. So anyway, back to Dr. Freeman. We've got another little small clip. This is on a message from his series on the Book of Romans where he taught a 38 tape message back in 1976.

This was entitled Preparation for Manifestation, part one. He was dealing with Romans chapter eight. And as you can tell from the title, he believed in the manifested sons theory. He thought he had purified and said, no, we don't believe in the extreme view of manifested sons, but he didn't purify it all. He believed in the manifested sons theory, which we'll talk about maybe in detail on our podcast together, John in the future. I'm sure you've already done it with others in the past, but I want to give people Hobart's take on it. But from Romans eight, Preparation for Manifestation,

part one, 53 minute, 52nd mark, 254. minute and 47 second mark. Dear friends if you can receive it I pray you can if you can I'm gonna say it anyway God hasn't just said another preacher in here with another message in another building. Now you have no place here if you can't receive that in the light sphere. I don't even want to see your face if you can't receive that because God didn't send you here and you're just gone to hinder somebody else who can receive that and you're taking their seat moral. So I'm saying it all because it has to be said in this thus saith the Lord that

here's where God put you and he expects you to come under the discipline and authority of this ministry because it's a ministry of the word hope our Freeman isn't building a thing but why is I can have churches all over the country. I can have my determination no trouble at all. So this is another one of those occasions where he says you know dear friends if you can receive it and he's not too concerned whether you can or whether you can. He said if you can receive it he says this is a unique ministry remember the one we played

earlier the woman had a revelation that God's given the end time message of faith whatever that is he's given that to only one man and that one man is standing up front talking to you telling you but he said but we're not gonna say who it is because it would sound boastful and so the rest of the revelation is obvious I just you almost want to throw up in a plastic bag when you hear a man say well we're not gonna say anymore it may sound boastful what have you just said but what was boastful. I mean it just makes you want to

throw up in a bag that you are toying with these people you're playing with grown adults their lives and their minds that God's revealed this to one unique person on the face of the earth and you're not gonna say well of course that's me well you're gonna have to figure that out for yourself who that is you know come on you're talking to adults as though you're talking to kindergartners so here in this clip he said God's given me a unique ministry and that's the sayeth the Lord you know everything to make sure I've got a nail on

the coffin and I'm not leaving room for anyone to quibble with it we're gonna use the authority of God that's the sayeth the Lord and then he says at the end of that and if you can't receive it Hobart says I don't even want to see your face around here again that is coming from the pastor of a church saying I'm a unique minister of God an end time ministry I'm the only one who has it and God's confirmed it and that's the sayeth the Lord and if you don't believe it well I just don't even want to see

your face again. I mean, I don't know, John. I'm going to leave that quote right there and let you say what you want to say. I think the only thing that I would have to say to that is if a person very hungry and their children came to my house, wanting food, needing food, ragged clothes, and my wife greeted them and said, welcome to the home of King John and they refused to accept me as their King, it would be the same for me to kick them out of my house with them being hungry and needy as it is for these ministers who they're kicking out people who are in need of Christ.

It's the same thing. They have no compassion for the people who are on the outside and it all goes back to this that I said before. It's the Moses model. You're either with us or you're against us, you're either in or you're out, you're clean, you're or you're unclean. There is no desire to go and to preach to the lost and bring them in. There is only to scorn the people on the outside.

I just don't know how I just have a hard time, even 40, 50 years after he said that, reading that, and I just have a hard time even wrapping my head around how a Christian minister has could have an attitude like that and could stand up and talk like that to the people.

That was in a series on Romans, and I think it was in our last podcast. I told my own personal story, John, don't forget. I sold a valuable coin collection to buy that series on Romans, 38 tapes and that's the stuff that I got. I got it because I wanted to understand Paul's line of logic, his argument, his reasoning. I wanted to understand the book of Romans better, but I soon came to realize that any of Hobart's series on any book, he's going to teach on this book.

I soon came to realize that Hobart's pattern was just to parade in front of everyone again, an old lady in a new dress. That's what I called it. Just parade an old lady in a new dress. It's the same old lady he's been telling us about for a long time. It's health and wealth. It's, you know, manifestation of the sons of God. It's something, but let's put it in a new dress.

Now let's teach this message from Romans or the same message from Exodus or the same message from Jeremiah. You know, it's anti-doctors, it's anti-medical science. It's whatever he wanted to preach anyway, just the old lady in the new dress. You made a comment a few minutes ago, John, about the accounts in Africa and you would find a record of the healings and the crutches and everything you would find it in the publications of those evangelists. In other words, that was their own press released. You know, that's where you find all of that stuff.

And I went over and grabbed off my bookcase. You know, this really famous book. This was such an important book to me back in the 1970s because it's written by a professor of history at the University of Alabama in Birmingham.

All things are possible. This is the whole or Roberts ladder rain, way in brand of movement.

But what Dr. Harold did, all of these facts and statistics and things in here, he drew that from the publications of all of those ministers. That's why when you read this book, it's a little bit deceiving because it's written by a history professor, you know, at a secular university.

So when you pick up this, you would think, well, this must all be gospel truth because it's written by a history professor. This isn't written by a way in brand of. This is written by a researcher.

But it's one of these researchers who simply researched the publication, publications of these ministries. So he could read, you know, something from Branum or Roberts or Gordon Lindsay. And that's what we were fed.

You see in Hobart's messages, he would tell stories and then he'd say, well, now this is all, you can easily find this. Just go look up FF Bosworth's book, Christ the Healer. Or go look up Stanley Frodschem's book about Smith Wigglesworth, the Apostle of Fate.

In other words, you're being referenced back to people who are sympathetic with this whole business and therefore they're going to tell the story, the way the evangelist told the story. And what we need in place of this is what, you know, you guys have done, you go find your, do your independent research.

Let's find a Kenyan newspaper, you know, written by a Kenyan reporter that tells of these 27 people that were medically dead and buried and they came out of their graves or something. Now we have a story on our hands, but we don't have a story if it's coming from the publications of these people.

So there's one other area because there's one other type of thing that Hobart just dangled in front of everyone and just teased everyone with, John. And it's something that he told on several different occasions, but I've kind of dug around to try to find the best version of it.

And the best version of it is on a message entitled, no exceptions to the promises that became number tape L33. It was taught in 1975. It was taught in the glory barn. And we've got two,

two long, on GER sections, let me see what we're gonna do here. Well, the first one's only 45 seconds, Sean. That's from 43 minutes and 26 seconds through 44 minutes. Before we play that, let me see.

The next one is only about a minute. So if you could first of all, John, play the one from 43 minutes, 26 seconds, and it goes through the 44 minute mark. I've been waiting nine years for the unfolding of a supernatural ministry, friends, that the half can't even be told because the half wouldn't be believed.

It is true. If God would permit me, I could say something would turn half of the off because you said, oh, boy, he's just imagining that. I can't even tell the wife, God nearly knocked me out of the chair once in a meeting where I was.

It's tremendous a nighting, and he said 12 words. I'll tell you friends, it nearly knocked me off the chair. So I wonder how many Hobart Freeman followers out there today, remember this. If you were a loyal follower, you will remember this because he told it on several occasions.

This was a revelation that he had received earlier in his life about this great end time ministry that was yet to unfold. He talked about it often, let's say, in the first eight or nine years of his ministry, did not hear about it nearly as often in the last 10 years of his ministry.

I can only chalk that up to the fact he's getting older, he's getting sicker, things aren't working out, and I don't know that he ever really in his own mind doubted whether this was true.

I can't speak to what was in somebody else's mind. But here's what he said. And if people will listen to this, what you just played, and listen, I've got it written down, and I'm gonna go over it, and picture yourself as an audience member there.

If you've got a pastor, your pastor standing up front, the pastor of your church, and one you go and sit under and listen to week after week after week, if he tells you this type of thing about himself, well, I mean, it's just human nature.

We all wanna be a member of Elvis's entourage, you know? If we can't, the way I say it is, if we can't be famous, I sure wanna know somebody famous. If I can't be important, I at least wanna be on the coattails of somebody important.

Isn't that John just human nature for so many people? I think as you mature, you realize, all the fame that comes with being important is not worth it, and neither is the harassment that comes with the fame of being with somebody who's important.

It's just not worth it. It's way better to live my life. if an anonymity, and that you get to live your life and anonymity, that's a way better life. But here's what he said, I've been waiting nine years that dates this to 1975.

I've been waiting nine years for the unfolding of a supernatural ministry, friends, that the half can't even be told because the half wouldn't be believed. It is true. If God would permit me, I could say something that would turn half of you off because you'd say, oh boy, that's just, he's just imagining that.

I can't even tell my wife. God nearly knocked me out of a chair once in a meeting where I was tremendous anointing. And he said 12 words. I'll tell you, friends, it nearly knocked me off the chair.

And that's the end of that first clip there. And there's much praising and shouting. And he tells this story on several occasions. And I know it actually happened. When this happened was in one of those meetings where in 1966, he had been in a big meeting,

he comes out of this meeting, he has this tremendous anointing on him and God gives him a 12 word revelation. And I can guarantee you, people have since the day they heard this been trying to piece together like alphabet soup.

What could those 12 words possibly be? And we could spend our own time trying to guess John what they could be. And you could probably come up with them. It's got to be something like Moses, something like Paul.

Hmm, maybe something more like Elijah. Maybe even Elijah's name would be in it somewhere somehow. I don't know. I'm just, I say that tongue and cheek, but it's got to be something along that line.

12 words about knocked him off of his chair. Then let's on this same message, John. Let's hear the second part of this. In beginning 48 minutes, 15 seconds through 49 minute, 11 seconds. So it's only about another one minute worth of him actually talking.

If I can tell you, thus saith the Lord, here's what he said I would. I just love to tell you what he said.

He said, you can't even tell your way. Not yet? I don't know. Maybe one day he'll say, tell them now, now let them laugh, let some laugh, because that'll be a part of the blessing.

You see, the blessings of God are free, but they're not cheap. You better believe. You better believe.

But there'll be a time for that. There'll be a time for that. Anything even to say it would be misunderstood. stood what he said because some would misinterpret what he said. They tried to make me something that he isn't saying. And what he said to me affects the ministry and it's in such a realm that if you said it, it would either be disbelieved by money or misinterpreted by others.

So it isn't time. Well, I mean, it speaks for itself. It's just this great ministry, this great blessing. The half can't even be told. He said it's in a realm that would either be disbelieved by many or misrepresented by others. You know, it's just vague. It's out there. It's out there in the land of everybody's imagination. But what is so interesting is that he does tell this story on several occasions and pretty much every time that he tells the story, he always says, and God won't even let me tell my wife. So there's poor June, you know, she's sitting out there

on the front row thinking, Oh, praise the Lord, husband. God's got a great ministry for you. 12 words. So fantastic that why? Why can't you tell anybody? Well, look, hope art's been dead 41 years that didn't happen. You know, he died a very sick ill man angry with everyone angry at me because I'd written him three letters angry at Bruce his son-in-law because he had challenged him angry at the media because they were publicizing all of the unnecessary deaths. I mean, hope art died pretty much mad at everybody. No great ministry, he could barely get to the pulpit

at the end of his life. If there was a time where we want to see the Elijah ministry happen, that should have been it right then. God could have healed his legs, healed his feet, healed his diabetes, healed his heart attack, lifted him up four feet off the platform, suspended him in mid-air, and then he could heal all the sick and work all the miracles. That's the kind of revelation I think he thought God had given to him in those 12 words, but unfortunately, it never happened. Me and the boys was out drinking one night and then hope art Freeman rose up like Dr.

Strange in the Marvel movies. You know, early at the beginning of this, I was talking about Brandham said he had three high words and you again made my head go there, you're talking about how everybody's trying to figure out what are these three high words and what they like to do, these con artists, they will like to give you something that you'll never figure out to get you talking amongst yourself because because all of that talk points back to the con artist.

The more they talk about it, try to reason out, what are these three high words? What was this prophecy that Hobart Freeman had? Well, when they're thinking about that, they're thinking about Hobart Freeman.

And what's funny is they won't tell you the secret that makes the focus on them, but they will tell you what the enemy secrets are. So while Brannum claimed that he healed all of these people with these three high words, which nobody knows what they are, which, oh, by the way, isn't in-cantation if you understand the concept.

He was saying that I have an incantation that I give over the people. Well, if the great sorcerer has his incantation, the enemy sorcerers must also have theirs. So he does this story. 1961, he says he was in a tent in Germany and he says all of these witch doctors, and this is in Germany, all of these witch doctors came to disrupt my meeting and they stood around in a circle around the tent, chanting those three high words, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Father, Son.

He was one as Pentecostal and he's trying to say that it's a battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. So the evil three high words were Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

And I just have to say, it's none of it is real. If you understand the mind how disruptive that this type of theology is to the mind, it consumes the cult leader just as much as it consumes the cult victim.

And towards the end of their life, this is 1961 that he's saying this ridiculous thing. It is consumed his mind so much he probably believes it. He probably believes that there were actually witch doctors in Germany, but even more sadly, all of the people listening to them, their minds had been so consumed that they didn't even question, well, wait a minute.

Is there really a witch doctor still in German? What was there ever a witch doctor in Germany? In Germany. It doesn't make any sense. And why on earth would witch doctors be chanting Father, Son, and Holy Ghost would not they be chanting something at least in German?

Something in their own language. But that's how the mind works in these things. It consumes your mind and it just turns off all critical thinking. And see, I think that Hobart was heavily influenced by William Branham.

I know I've got a few detractors saying, I don't believe that. I just think there is too much evidence. I think Hobart heard Branham make these types of selfish claims. Now, Hobart himself might have poo-pooed the witch doctors in Germany and all that, but the core of it, the fact that he felt and he said to his dying day that he said, I don't care what anybody says, I believe William Branham was God's prophet.

We have that on record multiple times. He might not have believed everything Branham said. But he believed in the Brannum model, that Brannum was not highly educated, but Brannum was a divinely called an appointed prophet.

He definitely believed in the Brannum model, and he believed that he was somehow in that cast in that same mold or role. I'm just going to relay John here in our concluding remarks. One other, you don't want it to play this, but if people want to go see this for themselves or hear it for themselves, Hobart again, it's in this same basement meeting in Muncie, Indiana in 1970.

He taught a little, I don't know four or five series on the book of Ezekiel, and tape number five's 40 back in the day was entitled Vision of the Dry Bones, chapter 37. And at the 45 minute, 23 second time stamp, you can listen to that, you can actually hear what leads up to that, and he told the people, he said, he's talking about apostles and prophets, all five ministry offices, Ephesians 4.11, he said, they've never gone anywhere.

But set them in the church, they were there in the first century, they're here today, they're available, nothing happened to them. All five ministry offices are still available. We've talked about this on earlier podcasts.

That was a strong belief of Hobart, and he says, his calling currently is a teacher. And then he said, I'm not at liberty at this point to tell you anything else. There again is one of those cryptic.

Let me just drop a hint and see if I can get my claw in your brain. Let me see if I can get a hook in you to hold on to you so that you go, oh, okay, he's a teacher now, but he's got another calling that he's not at liberty to tell me.

And so if that's like a step higher, ie, prophet, then I better be careful. I better not challenge him. It's interesting that in the context of this quote, and John, I welcome people. I have a few detractors on YouTube.

Not many. I have this one old dry mountain goat who is a detractor who just loves Hobart cream and believed everything Freeman said. And of course, they accused me of being a liar and a deceiver.

But I welcome people. That's why I'm giving the names of these messages and the timestamp. It's available to everyone. This isn't like difficult research. Some of what you've had to do is like go back and find archive newspapers from the 1920s.

I haven't done any difficult research. This is easy, this is a click of your mouse and you can find the YouTube sermon and go listen to the clip for yourself. So in the context of him saying, currently I'm a teacher and I'm not at liberty to tell you anything else.

When he said just prior to that, just several minutes prior to that statement, he said that a teacher is often a teacher prophet because that's how the offices are called by God. So you see what he's done?

He's prepared the way by telling you God often doesn't just call a teacher. He calls them as a teacher prophet. Well, I don't have a passage for that, by the way. And I do know of a passage, it's Acts 131 where there were in the church at Antioch, certain teachers and prophets.

There were two different groups of men in the early church at Antioch, some were teachers, some were prophets. That's a clear statement in Acts 131. It doesn't say there were some teacher prophets but Hobart wanted to make that available for himself.

So here's what I think, and I'll conclude with this, John. I think that Hobart saw some of the problems in Brandham's ministry. He knew Brandham was claiming to be a prophet. Hobart felt that he was a valid prophet but he saw a lot of false teaching in Brandham's ministry.

And I think that caused him some concern and caused him to slow down a little. And I think it may have caused enough calls in his own life where I think that although Hobart felt that he was a prophet, he could not pinpoint that specific time when God had called him as he did Moses and Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

He couldn't pinpoint a specific time. And so he was hesitant to come out and say, I'm a prophet but I think that he felt in his own mind that he was. And I also think that he communicated clearly enough with his following by statements like this that God often calls a teacher prophet.

I am at liberty to tell you what I am now teacher. I'm not at liberty to tell you what I will be called to in the future that everybody who sat under his ministry also thought that Hobart Freeman was a prophet.

Did he ever claim he was a prophet? No, but he did the next closest thing. And that is drop these little hints as I just alluded to. Well the bottom line for me, it all goes back to the concept of holiness, which you and I could probably talk a little bit about this.

I feel like you may not be as subject to many of the attacks that some of the cult escapees are but the idea that to be part of the group is holy and to be not part of the group, even if your Christian is to be unholy.

that concept seems to dominate these cult groups and the central figures of the groups set up the doctrines and these wild claims that nobody can prove to point back to them to put them into that elite status where they can say our group is holy, your group is not. Bottom line for me is if you're in that type of group, you're in a very destructive group and it's time to get out. So I'll end with that. Thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, John.

If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at www.William-branam.org. For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

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