Wolves in Canada: Art Lucier Scandal and Its Apostolic Defenders

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my co-host and friend, Laura Lynn Tyler Thompson, the host of Laura Lynn Live. Laura Lynn, it's good to be back and to talk about this weird Lazarus mess among other things. It's so odd because you and I have a little bit of a gap in between when we record and talk and I've been going down paths of research several paths of research since we talked and had a few

conversations with people and it's weird to me how they all seem to come to circle back to you. I just had a conversation just yesterday with Pellegrino walk and we were talking about Dean Briggs and they had mentioned it casually. I'd not seen it until talking to you but this weird Lazarus prophecy and parts of the reasons why these apostles seem to support each other and lift each other up and it all goes back to what Chuck Smith called it the Moses model but basically it's a model where the apostles are untouchable by the people. They are accountable only to God not accountable to the people and

they are I jokingly call it the Apostolic Governance Committee but essentially they are only subject to governance by other apostles so another apostle says hey you scratch my back I'll scratch yours and if you fall I'll lift you back up. So we're seeing all of this kind of come together and you mentioned this weird Lazarus prophecy so I thought it'd be good to talk about this for a while but this is a mess. This is really a mess and thank you for having me on again John I have such good feedback. I believe that you are more than you know

changing the dynamics that has happened with some of these people who had bad information and thought that William Brannum was all that and didn't have the real facts and their eyes are literally being opened and they are being awakened to the truth and that's because of the incredible work that you're doing so I have been really honored to be a part of it because William Brannum you know as we've talked about in the past was associated lightly and maybe not so intensely with my church nonetheless I believe he came to speak there I thank you

pointed out things to me and I'm like, oh my lord, I hasten to say that it is my understanding that I think that Regely's out may have cut ties because, or you know, just not really gone down the brand. I certainly did not hear it in all my years of growing up, but we did have aspects of it that was still being used at glad tidings. So fast forward to the recent exposures that I've made of Daystar, and there's about to be a breakthrough regarding Daystar. It's going to be some good stuff coming out, and I can't say much more than that, and maybe by the time this

airs, it'll all be pretty out there, but there's some breakthroughs coming. God is not done, and he is a just God, and he brings along people who are courageous enough to speak the truth, to stand up for what is right. And so when I, when I began my Daystar show on the Daystar Canada network, my husband and I moved to Kelowna. Then when we moved to Kelowna, we start going to the Church of Art Lucia. Art Lucia had been my friend. He had done these battle for Canada's, including celebrating the 1948 revival in North Battleford Saskatchewan, and that's kind of where I really began

to get to know Art because he was bringing everyone together to celebrate that movement. Fair enough, probably some good things came out of it, but ultimately some weird stuff came out of it too. So what happens is I become Art's friend, Art Lucia's friend, I'm invited to the battles, I'm invited to speak, I'm sort of in a somewhat inner circle, although I wasn't invited to the drinking parties, and later I realized like, why? I mean, why did I not get an invitation to be at the drinking parties? I mean, I thought I was their friend. Of course, I would say no,

and I wouldn't be the one drinking my face off anyways, because apparently that did happen behind the scenes. A whole bunch of terrible things have happened behind the scenes with Art Lucia. There's another incident from 2010 when a fellow that he was traveling with, they did this big ministry and everything, and the main guy raped an 18-year-old girl, and all of this covered up, hidden, all of it, disaster in a mess. Art Lucia is part of it. They get up and announce that there was an affair, and he's, you know, because it came out, the woman actually spoke out and

went public on Facebook with a post about what had happened. Oh, we're so sorry, and he confesses an affair, which was not an affair. It was an assault. So, Art Lucia and this gang of wolves, the wolf pack in Canada, have been coer- bursting together and basically the oversight committee that overlooks everything has reinstated him after a pretty long battle and I have gone after him publicly.

When I'm in Kelowna, Daystar ends and I'm kind of like, you know, Lord, it's weird that you would move me four hours, me and my husband, four hours away just to do the show and now it's over because God doesn't, he's not surprised.

He knew that he called me the Daystar to expose Daystar. I guess there was something about me that God knew I wouldn't put up with it and I would call them out and I wouldn't be part of, you know, a network that has Joni Lamb in open, unrepentant adultery, adulterous marriage to the woman, well, she's the woman, but to the man, you know, who is the husband of her friend for many years.

So it's just unbelievable and I thought, well, I'm not going to have my show, you know, on this network of depravity. I've learned a lot in my few years of being on this planet and that is that I have the fear of the Lord because I have seen his judgment.

I have felt his scourge. I have seen the discipline of God in my own life and I do not want it. I never want that again. So I really attempt to walk with clean hands and they pure heart so that the Lord can help me to be effective on this planet.

But there is a pack of wolves. There is a group of people. They do not have the fear of the Lord. They are operating in a spirit of lust, sexual depravity. They are they are using the gospel for gain and they are grifting the people of God and that group resided one of the key players, Art Lucie in Colona.

So as I'm there, I start going to his church and then there's a whole rumbling because there's a Facebook group that has been made to tear Art Lucie down and to expose him because there were people that were very hurt and they were finally after 20 years being able to speak.

I end up talking a whole bunch of them. My intention in all honesty was to protect Art Lucie. This was my friend. He does these big meetings across Canada. How can this be a bad guy?

You know, God is using him. Now as I went on, I have found out that the fruit has not been good at all. The things that he pulled off in 2022, he yelled at a guy in front of a thousand people.

And he's a spiritually abusive man. So many things and him and the people that he runs with, Nicole, their right hand person, she is nastier than nastier gets his wife Heather has many, many people that report on how very mean, mean-spirited and controlling. So she controls all the money of this financial thing. So that's a conflict of interest. People have been complaining. They have been standing up and wanting wanting this to

be dealt with and there to be transparency. So short story ending to all of this. I then am led to speak to the two Indigenous ladies who have allegations that Art Lucia has molested them. And I was undone. I believe those girls because there's a ring of truth.

The ring of truth tells you that what somebody is saying is true. So when you have to decipher between somebody that says, oh no, that's a lie. And the person who's telling the truth and it it just has that ring, it sounds right. Not to mention there's three other Indigenous women that have made allegations that they have been molested by Art Lucia. And so in light of all of this and all of this presented to an oversight committee, then Julie Royce does a story on the woman that married woman that Art Lucia sent his bare butt pick to. So this is a Apostle bare butt now

in Canada. Apostle bare butt sends his picture. Now this is only one of a couple of hundred. Other pictures of him in a steamy shower. What he got her to do was to go onto an app that quickly deletes within a few seconds deletes. Pictures deletes the conversations.

He set that up early on with her. They were just friends, you know, but he groomed her for a season and it would send songs, would send pictures, a lot of talking, deep intimate talking, sharing things. He shared things about his relationship with his wife and things like that.

And then ultimately there was a plan to meet privately. And the the Lord woke that lady up in a really powerful way. He woke her up and she came to her senses, so to speak, and realized that she was on a very bad path to ruining her marriage and to doing something very wrong. So the Lord woke her up. So all of this gets exposed. It comes out the oversight committee for Art Lucia investigating all of these allegations against him realizes that man there's a whole lot of stuff here, but what do they do? Well, they kind of quit. And then the board members

basically reinstate Art Lucia. The very week after the bear butt picture comes out, he's now back in the pulpit singing and preaching. So the bear butt picture was sent approximately two and a half, three years ago. And this is a man that has a predator record.

And I think what you're exposing, John, is that these men are there and there is a link and it's back to Brannemism, it's back to Manifest Sons of God. Dean Briggs steps into the picture because Dean Briggs is a good friend of Art Lucia. I have asked him repeatedly including yesterday in texts that I'm sending Dean directly because I have had communication with him. He has been on my shows in the past. We were actually having a dialogue over the Nephilim and things like this.

So Dean Briggs, before I've had my awakening, before I've understood what's going on and I have been friends. We've communicated, you know, from a distance, nothing real personal. But I have his text and I'm able to ask him, are you receiving money from Art Lucia? Because I can't understand one single thing that would be reasonable to put any, you know, context of what could be happening that this last week, in spite of Art Lucia's terrible fall, all of the stuff, all the sin, two civil Supreme Court civil suits in British Columbia, the province where I am.

Again, start Lucia that Dean Briggs would think that supporting him to be on the pulpit, bare minimum, would be a good idea. Dean Briggs called out IOP, KC, called them a bunch of like B-assers and said to them that they are, you know, not being transparent. He was super mad about the cover-up of Mike Bickel and he just went to town on them.

But all of a sudden, Art Lucia, his friend, he's on his pulpit, he's preaching at his church and then he's giving him a prophetic false word. And he says it in this way and, you know, he's like, Art Lucia, you know, like, why is it that guys like him and Joseph Zine, they get the voice of God, you know, they're actors actually.

So many of these guys are actors and I'm going to be quiet and just a minute talking because I want to let you speak. But so Dean Briggs, this, you know, this last week, he says, you know, Art Lucia, God is calling you, as a Lazarus, to come forth, you know, and I should pretty sure he puts in though it's stinketh, because boy does it stink. Everything about this ministry stinks. Financial allegations that are just coming to light, I think there's going to be an investigation and what he's done, his predatory ways I'm talking about Art Lucia. And then Dean Briggs, of course, who is all

into this manifest sons of God, but somehow seems to deny it at times, according to some guests that you've had on. And I appreciate their testimony. You know, this is a disaster and a full blown mess. And all of it, leading back to what you talk about all the time, John.

that there is a background to these guys. It leads them into deception. It is a foundation of sexual misconduct, financial misconduct, false prophetic words, false prophecies, false apostleship. Art Lucia calls himself an apostle.

I think that a woman that he actually had inappropriate relations eventually said he was an apostle. So I guess that makes him an apostle. So to us, he's a apostle bear butt and nothing but this is nothing but a sham that's going on in Canada.

It is. And the funny part is, I've not even yet got to the good stuff in my research and publications. There's so much more. When I left the brand of call, I spent, I actually talk about this in the first, the first big book that I've got on the website, which is preacher behind the white hoods.

I talk about all of the meticulous effort that went into studying Brannum. What I did not talk about are the different rabbit trails that you find in history when you do this, because Brannum is, it's like a spider web.

You're connected to literally everyone. And the curious mind that I have, I want to know why. Like how did this little no name guy from Jeffersonville, Indiana, little town nobody's heard of, how did he get connected to the Kardashian family?

How did he get connected to all of these people where he's got an audience with Richard Nixon? I mean, when you're looking at this, you're thinking, there's just no way. I couldn't do it.

I don't have the means to do this. But at the same time, I'm a businessman. I've been in business meetings. I've been in conventions. I've been in gatherings. And I know how it works when you start connecting with people.

You get, so in my meetings, I would go connect with a person. They're talking about the business they do has no relation to what I do. But I say, oh, I know a guy.

You need to connect with him. He would help you. So they connect. They start basically what I'm talking about as a network. You start establishing a network. And then within that network, whenever I need something, I can go to this guy.

He's going to say, well, I recommend this other person. And we have this collaborative effort of business. So as I'm studying Brannemism and I'm finding all of these things, I really had a motivation because I thought there would be enough people who were filled with the desire for truth.

That when I started publishing all of the hideous things that are covered up in Brannem's past and just outright lies, I thought there would be this mass exodus where everybody's just fleeing. But what I came to realize is there are a lot of people in the seats who are not there because of Christianity.

They're there because this is their collective group. That's really the only reason. My family was in it, so I'm in it, too. They're not there for Jesus. They're really there for their family. And there are other people who are there for other reasons, which I won't say on this podcast.

But the thing that I began to understand is the networks that were set up were so far even bigger than brannemism. One of the guys I've mentioned to you is Roy Davis. And the only thing I think I've mentioned to you is he was a clan leader because that's shocking to people.

But that's not even the most important part. Davis was connected to fundamentalist religion. He was on the board of directors for the world fundamentalist league. He was working in collaboration with many different denominations during a time when the clan was seen favorable by the people.

So he was seen as a political figure, a religious figure, a very good person. He was seen by these people who thought he was this religious elite who was like Art Lucie, untouchable by God.

Yet he is, as he's traveling through these evangelistic meetings, he starts to realize and recognize my wife's back in Texas, my wife and kids. She's not going to know if I'm fooling around in Georgia.

And fooling around turns into, well, she's not going to find out if I get married to another person in Georgia, gets married, and thinks he's not going to get caught. The funny story of this is there was a lady in one of his churches, he had multiple churches.

There was a lady in one of his churches in, can't remember the name of the town in Georgia, but in Georgia, he's preaching to his congregation. They don't know that he has a wife and kids and another church back in Texas.

So he's holding revivals from Texas to Georgia. He's out on the middle of nowhere, far away from his wife, preaching, and a lady from a sister of a lady from the church he goes to in Georgia, attends the revival because her sister's in that town and says, wait a minute, that's that guy that preaches back home and the whole thing blew up.

So they found out he's a bigamist and they found that long, long story that I won't get into. You can read the book if you want, but he is carrying multiple young ladies, he had the same for young ladies.

He's carrying multiple ladies across state lines for the purposes of sex, which is a violation of the Man Act, a federal crime. And when he holds the big revival that attracted William Brannum and created this whole mess, he's actually there because the government is trying to put him in prison for the girl that is on the platform with him, 17-year-old girl, who eventually became his wife, who he says, I'm not doing anything with her, but this actually became his wife.

So you've got this whole history of problems, not just sexual problems, but really a history of criminal activity by people who their motivation is really not even Christianity. Davis. There's no way this was a Christian man, but he was laying down the foundation for all of these connections.

And the other thing that you and I haven't talked about, the full gospel businessmen really come into this picture. And people are familiar with Dima Shakarian, I don't know if you know this name, but he is largely responsible for the popularity and spreading of the charismatic movement.

Whenever a charismatic started to form, he is the one who opened all the doors, well how did he do it? He brought businessmen to the picture, full gospel businessmen. So like my meetings, businessmen A, well I can do this thing, and I can sell it, but I need customers, and on the on the religious side, we'll come to our church.

We've got all kinds of customers, and they start connecting people to processes, to products, to this whole thing. Well it turns into this massive movement called the full gospel businessmen. The founder was Dima Shakarian, who was Kim Kardashian's, I think, great uncle, if I remember correctly, the lineage, but the co-founder lived about 10 miles from here.

He was a Brannemite. So there was a Brannemite in this organization, probably through, I can't remember how many years, decades, there was a Brannemite in control. And they're establishing a network where businesses can talk to businesses, and they're creating this elaborate engine that sits underneath the Christianity.

So when you see Art Lucia, you see all these other people. Yes they're there for religious purposes, but they're a spiritual figurehead, and that figurehead is sitting on top of this elaborate engine that in many ways has nothing to do with Christianity.

Well that begins to explain an awful lot, John, and that is the important information that we need to have, because we think sometimes, oh this is just one church, one movement, one guy. And all the interlinking people, then you have, like we see in Canada, Art Lucia is connected to this Steve Holmstrom.

Now Steve Holmstrom has said he believes that people are dead because they dared to speak out against the shenanigans of Kenneth Copeland. And he says, all manner of ridiculous things. They just had Rodney Howard Brown come in, and then they're connected to Mark Brisbois.

Mark Brisbois has some things in his closet that I'm sure he doesn't want coming out. And so they're all manifest sons of God, Brannemites, basically Steve Holmstrom closely associated with Art Lucia, who Art Lucia has recently turned over the very lucrative prayer, prayer group, like they do a firewall, it's called a prayer thing, it's really about the money.

And I honor the wonderful people that pray, I do. Thank you, God, that people want to be involved in a, you know, a prayer wall that operates 24-7. These are the good people that they use.

But in order to do that, you know, there's money, there's donations, there's all kinds of things that happen. All of that gets transferred over to Steve Holmstrom, who says he wants to be just like Brannum.

That's his own words. He, you know, he wants to raise the dead and all of this. They have no clue, nor would they listen. They tell all of their people that I'm sewer water.

Anyone who speaks against all of this is, is they call us terrible names. And, and so we're, we're kind of in a, you know, we're in a battle, but the battle is the Lord's.

So all I do and all you do is tell the truth. But what you're, what you're saying is making sense. It's like a network. And people eventually buy into, like with Lou Engel and Dean Briggs, they're in the States.

This is in Canada, but they all buy into the same thing. And you're talking about the foundation of where this came from. Absolutely. So take it a step further. Christian identity. I use that phrase and we've, we've talked about it a little bit what it is.

But I've not really talked about what it means to the latter reign. Or the reason why, why it even exists. If you go back to, I can't remember what years, I think it's the 1920s.

Henry Ford, very, very powerful figure worldwide, Ford Motor Company. He's publishing the Dearborn Independent. And he, he has a person who's working with him, right hand man, who is pushing the Christian identity doctrine, very anti-Semitic doctrine through his Dearborn Independent magazine.

Because Ford is the one who is behind the Dearborn Independent, people saw this, all of this anti-Semitic rhetoric as sponsored by Ford and therefore legitimate. And so it began, it started to become adopted.

And there were religious leaders who were adopting it. So the Christian identity doctrine itself isn't a religious doctrine. But the foundations that it was laying, one of which included dominionism, it is starting to be mixed with Christian rhetoric because you had now Christian ministers reading this thing.

And this is before, four gospel businessmen exist. But the same concept existed. You had very powerful people who were in business, who were pushing agendas, mixing with the Christian religion and those ideas start to cross pollinate.

And once this turns into a movement where there are conventions, there are people who are gathering and meeting each other, well one person's ideas, combined with another person's ideas, and develop into a different doctrine.

And many of the concepts that are in Christian identity start to morph into what... comes manifested sons of God, especially the dominionist aspect of this. From the Christian identity side, they were seeing, well, we're going to have dominion over the Jews and the blacks.

And so it fit within their world, from the latter reign side, we're just going to take dominion over the sinners. And so you have ministers who were adopting this, not knowing that the racist side existed, and on the racist side, not knowing that the Christian side existed, but the leaders who were bringing all of this together in this engine, they were aware.

They saw both sides. And on the website, I've started to put names to some of these people. But the thing to understand is when you're in this position of power, like art, Lucia, like Dean Briggs, and you're part of the conduit that links all of these different groups together.

People groups, hate groups, Christian groups, charismatic, Pentecostals, mainstream. When you're part of that conduit, you see the information flowing both ways and you become a facilitator. And that's where the problem lies because the question I have, if you are facilitating evil in the name of Christianity, are you actually a Christian?

And you know, this has been really hard. If I could express something like personally troubling is, I've had to really reach out to leaders that have been my friends for a lot of years.

And I've had one personal friend that, we're still friends, but he's very disappointed in me for going public about art, Lucia, I released a, I released a tape recording of the oversight committee, just they have no oversight.

They don't have any common sense. They have no discernment. And this is affecting, there's beginning to be like a shifting in the land. This is affecting many people's relationships, what you're doing, John, you're a friend wrecker because what's happening, what's happening is, and it's in a good way, and you're doing the work of the Lord is that truth is beginning to shine.

It's very powerful light into our understanding of what the, what the word says, and what these people's religious ideologies are, and they're not correct. So now we have the big names. I mean, one guy, one pastor, he won't talk to me because I brought to light some things about Bill Johnson, and like the manifest things, I don't know if you can even just repeat what's happening because I think that what's happened even with Dean Briggs, who outed IHOP, they really, they really do believe that they're kind of special in a way.

They do. believe that they, as apostles, have some special jurisdiction before God or something, something like that. I know you know how to explain this better. And I'm just learning about all of this.

And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't. And I will never put them in charge, you know, go to them asking to hear from the Lord. I couldn't care less. The dollar given false prophecies about Joseph C. He's prophesying from science journals.

And the voice of God to Johnny Lamb recently, recently Joseph C. has this huge prophetic word for Johnny Lamb that, you know, God is, she is Esther and Deborah. She's literally in an unrepented disaster, so I might say, adulterous marriage.

Very recently, Doug, Doug Weiss, her husband gets on the show and confesses that he's been pouring free for four years. Okay. That's about when they started dating. So he was doing pouring. He leaves his wife.

He marries Johnny. And he's confessing that he's pouring free for four years, I think it's just too ridiculous. And all of these guys are just, you know, they're into these certain things. And I don't know what day starts thing is on the manifest thing.

I have no idea. I've never heard them talk about it, but all of these friends and they just think they're special. You know, John, they think they're special and they're not special. God is exposing them.

Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism, transition through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Brannum Historical Research's website, William-Brannum.org.

On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon and others, with links to the paper, audio and digital versions of each book.

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You know, I had this conversation with Pellegrino Walk just yesterday. I think it will, I think that may come out before this one. But you have a different audience and it's actually worth repeating this so that people can understand it.

One of the primary doctrines of Christian identity is the idea that in the Garden of Eden, Eve made it with the serpent and there were two bloodlines, one good, one evil. and this later developed into the race riots of the 60s because they were saying, this is an evil seed, we need to stop all of this race mixing, all of that weird mess.

And here's the thing to understand. What happened whenever Christian identity began to merge with this fundamentalist religion to produce the manifested sons of God doctrine? It tried to take a spiritual problem and humanize it. So in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, that should be enough for you to understand. They disobeyed God. That's how sin entered the world.

But what the Christian identity flavor doctrine did, it humanized the problem so that instead of looking to the original sin, you instead started to look at human blood. So they started tracing the lineage. Well, we can see that through this human blood, here's you can trace all of the evil.

This is the evil in the world. And it developed into people questioning, well, does this person have the evil blood in them or the good blood? And if they were to marry each other, it's a human problem and you can put a human face to it. The problem with doing this is you are literally rewriting the DNA of the Bible. You start to go through the Bible and you start to read it from a bloodline concept rather than what the Bible is actually saying to the extent that you changed the nature of Jesus.

And they did this. Brandham taught it. I was just studying recently Robert Morris. And Robert Morris is talking about how Jesus was fully human. And think about what this means. So you have a human who is dying on the cross for you. It would be like me dying on the cross for you. What can I do if I die on the cross for you? The manifested sons of God, doctrine tried to humanize Jesus and say that he was the ultimate manifestation of God. God had a thought and expressed it as the word.

And it came into Jesus as a spirit. And he became a Superman. And you too, friends, can become Superman. Well, when you teach that doctrine in human, you're humanizing spiritual things. Well, now what do you do with the leadership? Because the leadership or teaching you are you not a Superman. You should be able to do the same thing as the leaders. So the leaders had to take the human aspect and rise above it. So yes, it's still humanizing it. But now they're an upper tier of human. They're spiritually elite, essentially. And so the spiritual elite, they're not

subject to the same rules of the rank and fall member. So in doing this, they've created the cult hierarchy. And the problem is once it transitioned into the new apostolic reformation with all of these apostolic networks and all of these miniature cults, now you have pyramids of authoritarian control in network with each other, each one just as evil as the next, all of these very destructive cults. But at the top is a leader who, in many cases, is not even a Christian man, supporting other Christians in the network who are claiming to be Christian, I should say, and they're aware. They're aware this

person has sexual sand, they're aware of all of these other things. I'm told by people who knew Paul Cain, and I believe it because I know how this works. I've seen this among the Brannum cults. Some of the ministers will actually keep dirt on the other ministers, all of their things that they know will eventually be exposed, because now that other minister becomes a puppet on a string. If you don't align with this doctrine, if you don't do this thing that brings my money, I'm going to expose you for your affair or for your grooming

or whatever this is. So there are men within these networks who actually know long before the exposure, and it turns into such a mess where, again, you look at all of this and you wonder, are these people even Christian? That is so shocking, and they don't really come out with it. Do they? Like, they don't just say, we believe such and such, Eve made it with the serpent. Do they get that from some writing? John, how do they come up with this stuff? Well, the ministers who teach Christian identity in its purist form, they go back to the, they try to use the King James version, believe

it or not, where it says, the serpent beguiled Eve. And because not many people understand the meaning of that word, they'll say that beguiled means sex. And it's a weird, like, I could go through the history of how all of that developed. But the thing to understand is not everybody today who is preaching manifestons of God even understands or knows where it came from. They have no idea the serpent see doctrine. In about, I want to say was the, maybe the 1970s, after the, after the big exposure whenever Kennedy was assassinated, all the clan groups were exposed. This doctrine went underground. And many ministers

started to teach that the original sin was Eve mating with the serpent. But then what happened is it turned into a spiritual problem, not a bloodline problem. So originally it was a bloodline, then the flood, and then now it's a spiritual problem. And what they did was they just tried to disconnect from the racism and the race riots that had caused all of the government investigations. Right after the Kennedy assassination, you can even see in Brannum, his doctrine starts to shift on this. So over time, the original bloodline doctrine kind of got erased and forgotten within the movement. But they kept, like these

doctrines that were cross pollinated and started to develop, they kept many of the doctrines including the, you know, the manifest sons of God doctrine, where it came, it almost resurrected whenever the shepherding movement started to form. One of the key figures who was supporting the five shepherds was one of the most famous Christian identity leaders in the United States at the time, and he believed all of the Serpentsy doctrine, all of the manifest sons of God, all of these things. But the shepherds didn't really say who he was and what he was doing. So nobody knew that they were working with a Christian identity guy,

and eventually he was a homosexual and he got exposed for homosexuals in. So eventually, they were able to just push him out. This guy is a homosexual. We can't listen to anything he said. So they kind of wiped their hands from it. But the ideology that framed the doctrine still existed and it became somewhat disconnected from the to see doctrine.

So what was so interesting about your friends that you've just had on? Am I saying it right, Pellegrino? It is Pellegrino. It actually, they had to explain it to me. It means pilgrim in Spanish. Okay. Okay. So it's like, I think of that water, you know, that beautiful water that you drink, Pellegrino water isn't it? You know, they, they really exposed Dean Briggs, but it took quite a friendship because some of these people, they won't talk about this openly. So you can be going to a church for a long period of time and suddenly discover that your pastor in behind

the scenes, because it's controversial, they're not, they're not speaking it or teaching it, but they finally would have to admit it, but you have to get in relationship, you have to, you kind of have to confront. And this is the relationship that the Pellegrino's had with Dean Briggs, which, in which I'm understanding from a video that they have had that he finally, yes, yes, I, you know, I believe in the manifest sons of God. But well, then why not just say it, you know, out loud, why are they also afraid of speaking this? There's where it goes back into,

there's a history that everybody should study, and that's Nosticism. If you understand Nosticism and how it worked, it was the combination of many pagan religions with Christianity, and when you mix anything else with Christianity, what you get is not Christianity.

Some of the religions that mixed in were called mystery cults, and what they taught was that they had this esoteric knowledge, these divine rituals, these mysteries, and if you come into the group, you know the mystery. But if you're outside of the group, we don't talk about the mystery, because then everybody knows the mystery. So that's how a mystery cult worked. You can go to the, go through the history of the cult of Dionysus, I think I said that correctly, and they had the spiritual rituals where they were coming together, drinking wine, and getting into a drunk and frenzy,

and the women had their hair up in this bobby pin and they would pull the bobby pin out and go out and do the ritual where they were ripping flesh off of animals and weird things.

Whenever you read Paul talking about the hair as a covering, he's actually in the area where all of this is going on, and there are women who are taking part of this in his audience, I'm certain.

If you study that history, it's a fascinating history, but it is a mystery cult and it is the idea that we have a collective esoteric knowledge. Those on the outside don't know the mystery so they're lost.

When we were in the Brannum cult, we had many of these things that are now coming to the surface, but we did not talk about it to the outside world. We would talk about it sometime, some of the core doctrines weren't even preached from the pulpits, but whenever you went to the special things, which was like you'd go to the family gathering of the minister or you'd go to some weird, some event that the church is holding, all the older crowd would get together and they would talk about all of the mysteries that we don't preach from behind the pulpit

because those are our special mysteries. So when you understand that concept, now apply it to the broader New Apostolic Reformation, it is still the same type of mystery religion, they won't tell you the history of how all of this developed because that's our inside knowledge and the world wouldn't understand it.

That's the phrase that they always use. The world would not understand this mystery. So we keep it to ourselves, we bundle it up, and in the end, this is a story I don't think I've shared before on the podcast, so you're the first, but my grandfather was writing with William Brannum.

They were going out in the middle of Kentucky. I heard this story as I was writing through Kentucky and my grandfather just happened to pass the exit. He said, right there, I said in that restaurant with William Brannum, and they were just having a casual conversation and my grandfather was a Methodist minister who was trained in Methodism so he had actually heard the gospel and converted to this destructive cult.

He's talking to Brannum about salvation and he's confused. If you understand how his question's working, he was confused on salvation, which makes sense. Nobody in the cult even understood salvation. So he's asking the basic questions that are in the Bible and he was telling this to my father, I was in the back seat, he leaned over and he said, and Brannum leaned over to me like this and I was asking him, so if that's the case, all you have to do is believe in Jesus and you can be saved.

And he said, William Brannum got quiet, looked around both ways, looked to me and said, don't you ever tell anybody that. And as a child, I'm hearing this thinking, oh wow, that's one of the mysteries.

But now as an adult, I'm looking back, this is a person. and who is actually trying to shift and change and conceal the gospel from the people. That's an incredible story, and that should be a tweet that should go out.

That should be one of those, we gotta make this into one of those short stories. You know, how prevalent do you think this is, John? What are we talking? Is there a good number of ministers, we know their faces, we know their names, and they have twisted doctrine that we don't know they have?

Absolutely. So here's the fine line that I walk. In fact, you and I had this conversation right before this. I have to be very careful. One of the reasons I focus on history and not the present, what we're doing here is a little bit outside of my normal.

The dead people cannot sue you and to the effect of the YouTube channel, the dead people can't take down your YouTube channel. It was only two and a half years ago I lost everything.

I lost all of it. They had attacked the website, copyright strikes. I actually had technology attacks. They were hackers outside getting into my networks, both my business and my religious networks, which was a little bit odd.

But they attacked and they brought everything down because I had touched on the edge of something that appeared to be, I can't say what it is, that's outside of the realm of what I can safely say.

It was something that was dangerous to them. I'll just say it like that. Once I said it publicly, they knew what I knew and they brought everything down. So when you're talking about leaders today who understand all of these things that, everything that I've said to you, they know it's nothing new to them.

If you mention them by name, they can attack you and they can bring everything down. But if you make the public informed of the history, they can start to see through these leaders. You don't even have to mention their names.

If they can understand the doctrines where they came from, how they developed, how they shifted, they can see right through these people who are claiming to be a apostle because they're clearly not apostles.

So this is what everyone who's watching your show needs to know, to share this broadcast, to let people know that there needs to be an unveiling of this darkness because what has been kept in secret, God will shout from the rooftops and you're doing that.

So in whatever ways that we can, we need to be courageous in exposing this. And wouldn't it be good, John, do you suggest that, let's say you've been going to a church for a while and once in a while you do hear your pastor saying something a bit odd, like a bit of a different veering from normal, traditional, just the gospel.

Wouldn't it be good if they would begin? to build that rapport with the pastor, to find out if they're in a church that has this ridiculousness, because I'll tell you my prayers that it all comes tumbling down.

If the Lord is returning for a bride without spot or wrinkle, then we've got some work to do because the bride is a bit of a mess. Her bridegown is definitely spotty because she's in a pack of mud and it needs to be cleaned up.

And we are very wrinkled. We've got all kinds of old traditions, old dogma and the ideologies that are in behind the scenes. These are wrinkles in the body of Christ. And so I think that this exposure season that has really come forward, Jeremiah Johnson talking about it recently.

And I don't know if he knows which way is up on the exposure because he's kind of understanding the exposure. But again, he's had to go through his own wake up call to putting out a completely false prophecy that he did that Trump would be elected in 2020.

And that really brought him to a place of brokenness and humility. And it's a wonderful thing actually that God does that to all of us. So we get a choice about whether we're going to be repentant and get through this.

Because God is so gracious. He is close to the broken hearted and a contrite spirit, he will not reject. So there is opportunity for repentance and then forgiveness from the Lord. But these guys running around with this errant dogma in their repertoire that they only release here and there, this has to be exposed.

So it would be good if people begin confronting gently their pastors and say, do you believe in this serpent seed thing? And what of it? You know, would you say that this would be good, John, that people get courage and begin exposing in the worldwide church?

It is, however, the people need to be prepared before you do it. So with the mystery cults, there is the secret knowledge, the secret mystery. Like I said, we can't tell the outsiders. The outside, the world can't know our secret.

With that comes also, if there is a person who is going to eventually expose the outside world to the inside, it goes both ways. We have to cut off the person. Whenever the person starts to ask questions to the pastor, if they are concealing the secret, you'll start to realize really quick if this is a cult because immediately they'll chastise you, they'll chastise your family.

They will make it very miserable for you. And it's weird. because after we left the random cult, we're in one of the most destructive cults, and I started attending mainstream churches, and we've tried different ones.

I don't think I'll ever even land on one that I will say, this is the church, I'll go to the rest of my life. But one of the churches was a mainstream church, and it was the same way if you started asking questions immediately, the questions was seen as a threat to the minister, and I didn't know why at that time.

I'm starting to learn as I go that there are things that even the mainstream churches don't want you to know, and why, I want to know why. So you have to be careful and be cautious because you may not just lose your connection to the minister, you may lose multiple friends, depending on how destructive the cult is.

In the end, is that a bad thing? I don't know, if you're in a destructive cult, this is a quick way to get out of it. You'll find out really quick if it's destructive, but the pain that goes with it is very difficult.

So people need to prepare themselves before they do it. You're so right, and you know, John, it strikes me that this is a good information to get out here on your broadcast that a few of us that are paying a very high price and our social network is getting a bit smaller.

People are saying they won't deal with us, we'll talk to us, we'll be associated. I want to say, I think it is a good thing, and the thing that we have to do is prepare ourselves that I kind of went, you know what, I got my two dogs who love me no matter what.

I got my husband, who is 100% committed to me, and he loves me no matter what. And then I got a few good friends who are also on this exposure and wake up journey, and I'm drawing close to them, and we are finding our people, and we are finding connection and finding relationship with those that agree and can walk together.

And the rest of them, we do have to be prepared, because even the word says, mother will turn against daughter, father, against son. The kingdom of heaven brings violence in that, it's not a physical violence, it brings the shaking and the ripping apart of that which is wrong, and that which is right.

And Jesus came to expose all of it. And in this era, think of the thousands of years that the enemy of our souls has taken to weave deception into every little corner of the Christian, what does Julie Royce call it?

The Evangelical Industrial Network, okay? It's like a network. So the enemy came in very gently with this idea and this, idea, this false doctrine, that false doctrine, and all of it catering to everyone's ego, of course, because these guys, they love it. If I can get more power, if I can get more money, if people will see me as important, Apostle so and so, with I hear from God, I'll let you know what God is saying. You know, as the enemy caters to the egos of man and gets this stuff in, we realize that it's going to be very hard to bring it all to full disclosure. But if those of us

who are brave, so if you go into that meeting with your pastor, I guess you got to be prepared, that might be the last time. And then I would say be brave enough to tell those that are around you, well, we discovered some things. Let me just show you in the word, like we believe this and this, and we believe that they're teaching an errant gospel, an errant doctrine, and be brave, and then let the chips fall where they may. I'm good now. I do have a shrinking network.

I've never been so sort of outcasted as this last year. My gosh, I went after Sean Foyte and the world lost their mind on me, the Christian world. I'm like, I'm sorry, what are we not understanding?

His close group has allegations that they say the allegations are that he is quite the liar. I talk to another pastor who said he'd come on my show, I haven't had him on yet, and said he worked with Sean Foyte and the guy lies all the time, like it's uncanny for a Christian minister. Well, I think that's important to get that information. These people then are willing to put it on paper and have it released to the world so that you know that inappropriate actions have been taken by Sean Foyte. So behind the scenes, so a good singer, is that all we care

about? Do we not care about the character behind the man? Do we not care about him putting people at risk of actually getting criminal lawsuits for some of the things he's done? Now in this last couple of weeks, he said that the FBI are asking him questions and he's furious that you know who you are, you podcast Christian podcasters, the FBI has questions for him. Hey, pal, the FBI and have questions for me too if I was doing what you were doing. So it's come out. And you know, I think I lost a lot of followers like they, honestly, I've had to say I've had to sit back

here in this very chair because this is kind of where I do my devotions in the morning. And I've had to think, am I willing to lose it all for the cause of Jesus Christ and for telling the truth?

And you know what, John? I am everything. Though the Lord slays me, I will trust him. And he gives, God takes away in his just time. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Whatever friends I have to lose, though everything turns against me.

If I am speaking what I believe the Lord has asked me to expose and to speak on, then I'm a happy camper and I'm good with it, John. And you know what? May we all get there. May everyone who's listening to this.

There's people listening to this and your heart's beating a little, because you know something ain't right in your circle. And you know that the Lord's been, the Holy Spirit's begun speaking to you, just the way He has spoken to John, to myself, to others of these podcasters and those courageous enough to lose it all, to speak the truth.

You know that in your circle something's wrong. And we honor that in you and we honor your courage and we pray that you will find courage and then contact us. We'll be your social buddies.

We'll have some email, you know, interaction. And some of the people that have exposed have become my new friends. And it's wonderful. And John, you're one of them. You're a new friend. I appreciate you. I respect you.

And I am grateful for this season where this is coming out. We do have to be ready to let it all go. Well, thank you so much and thank you for doing this. You're very welcome.

If you've enjoyed a show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branum.org and Laura Lynn Live. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Thank you very much. Thank you. You