Christian Harry Potter: When Spiritual Warfare Becomes a Fantasy World

Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brown Quantum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brownham Historical Research at William-Brandom.org and with me I have my co-host and friend, Pia Hugo, former member of the new Apostolic Reformation. Pia, of everything that we have talked about so far, this is probably going to be the most difficult for me and I'm gonna be open and honest to the audience, open and honest to you. I'm gonna have a hard time with this one because we're gonna be talking and you're going to get it deep into

the subject matter and I'm gonna start laughing because we're talking about Christian Harry Potter today and I'm sorry I just I can't help it and to tell the audience what we just talked about right before this I was recording a podcast with Fran and we were talking about a lady who's fighting demons in her bedroom and some of the stuff that she got into. She said that a whole camp of witches was circling on brooms and her weird stuff. I'll just say it like that.

This is the same movement that says you can't watch Harry Potter so they're talking about witches and demons and all of this weird stuff and the kids are just thinking I want to watch Harry Potter. Why can't I watch that? The adults have their fun and anyway I'm gonna have some trouble with this one. I'll be laughing just forgive me now because it's gonna happen. Well let me tell you the reason why these Christian parents don't let their kids watch Harry Potter and such is because supposedly it will open the doors and then it will really happen

and they're real lives like you know so I will have a hard time myself but for a different reason we've been talking about a lot of different characters from Nair right? New Apostolic Reformation starting with my former brother in Law Cheon. Of all the characters Lulangle is the one that I really tried not to talk about too much because I like the guy I still like him you know him and his wife you know they were they were genuine friends of mine back in the day so you know but but as I have been on this journey with you learning more and more about

doctrines and false theologies, I had to acknowledge the fact that even the most well-meaning, good intention, people who get caught up in the system, you know, they're just wrong. I mean it's funny, but it's also sad because the fact that they are so seriously deceived and continue to teach others the same false things. So that's why I've decided all right I'm gonna spill the beans, you laugh away John, you're forgiven. So I'm gonna start it like this. I know I've watched enough of your videos to know that the key word to say in order to get instant

credibility as a minister is to say brother Brannum said this and whenever you say brother Brannum said this he said that people will just automatically accept what you're saying is truth because heck it's from brother Brannum even if even if it was like brother Brannum said the aliens are gonna come and invade us like oh my gosh you know there is total absence of any kind of critical thinking in these movements. So in the Nar world it's almost like the same effect when you say Lou Angle said or Cindy Jacobs said because that is how highly esteemed and

and highly valued these two individuals are and I I have quite the history with them. So let's get started. You know you said brother Brannum said well you just caused all of these triggers to go off in my head because I grew up and that's all we heard was brother Brannum said in fact after I left the movement there was a family member who is in the hospital and I was debating on whether or not I should even go because I'm kind of outcast and I finally decided I'm gonna go for respect of the person who's in the hospital bed and I'm sitting there in the

waiting room and there's like two or three people from the church who are there to grieve with you know with the family and they're sitting there and I heard brother Brannum said this brother Brannum said and it was just bouncing around the room and you could watch as a nurse would walk by you could watch your eyes rolling and people it's just so weird and it was a movement that was teaching you that you could say and use the say at the Lord you had the power too it was the spoken word you can do it too the Rayma

And yet at the same time, they're pointing that to him, as though he has the reverence, Brother Brannum said, well, after I left the movement, I played a little game, which is a little bit insidious, but it did kind of work.

I knew the power of that phrase, Brother Brannum said. And so at this point in time, my website had started, my blog had started, I'd not yet started YouTube. And there were these forums where people would go and they would talk to each other about Brother Brannum said this, Brother Brannum said that.

Well, I created two profiles of two different people, and I knew all of the really internal flaws with the ministry. And I would post with one user, Brother Brannum said this, and just to simplify it so people can understand, as a doctor, and I'll say, Brother Brannum said, Smurfs are blue.

And then I would take the other user and I would say, no, Brother Brannum said, Smurfs are pink. And I would give the sermon reference. And then he's blue. He's pink. He's blue. And people were starting to wake up and say, wait a minute, Brother Brannum can't say both things.

Can he? Really? And they go look and sure enough, fundamental core doctrines of the movement, he's arguing with himself. And it's just, it's the power of weirdness. And as we continue, I'll probably interrupt with more weirdness as we go.

All right. So we're to begin. Let's talk about who they are, right? There might be some people in your audience who don't even know who, Luangal or Cindy Jacobs are. So, Luangal is my former pastor.

He co-pastured and he co-founded Harvest Rock Church in Pasadena, California with his best buddy, Cheon, who is still the leader of Harvest Rock to this day. And he is also known as the main founder of two very famous, massive fasting and prayer movements called the send and the call.

Well, actually it's the other way around, the call first and then the send. Do you understand the difference between the call and the send, John? Has anybody explained it to you? I know it from a biblical standpoint, but what he's talking about, I'm probably not sure.

So he started with a call. I think the first big one don't quote me on this, maybe 1990, but the call was all about calling all you intercessors, like let us gather, right? It's the call, like the call has been sent out from heaven and boy, I did multitudes of young people, you know, heed the call.

And I think it was around 2000, you know, maybe, yeah, the year 2000. So maybe 10 years of past. And then he changed it to the send because now that we've been called now, he was going to send us out.

So that's just a brief history of these, these prayer movements. Now, I have a photo that I would like you to show your audience. And you actually show this same photograph not too long ago.

And that's me and my papa Lou, as I used to call him. And that was only three years ago, John. There was a, again, massive call slash send rally. And this, this took place at the LA Coliseum, one of the biggest venues that you can, you know, rent in Los Angeles.

We, we only filled enough, I think, to, to occupy the outside. We didn't even go inside because I think it would have, it would have looked, you know, too pathetic. So I just remember we just stood outside and that was our massive rally.

But, you know, I did, I did see Lou there. That was the last time I saw him. So that's, that's Lou Angle for you. And then Cindy Jacobs, along with her husband, co-founded the General's International.

And this was the same idea of calling all the generals, all the prayer generals. And she is a self-proclaimed prophetess and also a leading figure of NAR. So the photo that I want to show your audience, John, you'll see a couple and their faces are blurred because I want to protect their identities.

But in my last podcast, I told you that I was part of a NAR church from 2020 to 2024. So that couple is now divorced. So that's, that's that. But very clearly, you see Mike and Cindy Jacobs.

And this day was launch date. We had moved from another location and Hollywood. And now we found, you know, the location. This was the location that we were praying about. It's right smack at the heart of Hollywood.

And, you know, because you got to have proximity, John. It's all about the geography. You know, what better way to close those demonic portals to Hollywood than to be right there in the middle of it all?

And so we were celebrating our first, you know, Sunday, our first official Sunday, being in this new location. And, you know, you know who got that cake, John? Who? My husband and myself, we bought that cake.

So, and that was just three years ago. So, again, when I'm talking about leaving nor, I'm talking just like a year and a half ago. It's still rather new for me. And so this is really been helpful, all our podcasts.

I mean, I'm hoping that there are people out there that are being, you know, help somehow finding some healing. But trust me, I'm the one, I'm the one, I'm probably getting the most benefit from this because I truly also need to detox and deconstruct from all this nonsense.

This Harry Potter nonsense, as you call it. I was talking to Fran earlier today, as I mentioned. I thought that most of these charismatic churches of today were teaching Harry Potter nonsense when I was in the cult.

That's the weird part of all of this. So, I was in a cult that was pointing fingers at all of these other groups that exist today, while at the same time believing that we had a leader who had a magic sword.

We literally believe the man had a magic sword. And the irony of all of this, I leave, I told you before the podcast, I'm a big fan of cartoons. And I used to watch all these cartoons of the guy with a magic sword and I knew it was fiction.

I, even as an adult, I'm looking back at my adult life when I'm believing this stuff. I just can't believe that I fell for this. And yet, I'm a smart person. I know doctors, I know lawyers, I know very intelligent people who believe that the man had a magic sword.

I really do. You look back at this and you scratch your head and you think, what, what happened? Was it brainwashing? And literally, it comes down to this. Whenever you use that phrase that you mentioned earlier, brother, brand, I'm sad.

And you can plug in any central figure. Che on said, people shut off critical thinking. And even as an adult, if you're going to shut off your critically thinking, you're going to believe that people had magic swords.

And you're going to believe that there are witches flying around your Airbnb. It's just, it's crazy stuff. But I look back at those times in my life and it feels like I was a zombie.

I don't feel like I was in control of my mind whenever I was in this. Because a person who's in control of their mind doesn't believe this kind of stuff. Yep. Well, um, I think as we go along, you know, in this podcast, you know, we can We can try to analyze the wise, you know, I am gonna get there, you know, like why why why did we believe in all this stuff?

but So I I want to continue with what Lou Angle and Cindy Jacobs are known for the other thing they're known for is starting houses of prayer, right? But both of these You know individuals were all about strategic corporate prayer So for them prayer wasn't just, you know, communicating with God, you know, um, I mean, I am all for prayer by the way Right praying to God on your own praying to God with your family with a group of people I mean, obviously that's so central to our Christian life But they really really took it to a place. I think that

Definitely went too far. Let me let me just put it that way So both Lou Angle and Cindy Jacobs followed in the footsteps of their buddy Mike Bickel Let's just mention that guy So Mike Bickel is known as the founder of iHop Casey International House of Prayer in Kansas City. So I'm not gonna Go into Mike Bickel any further people can just Google him, but now there's a character for you, right?

but within the North circles that was another name that was highly esteemed and Mike Bickel was the first one to come up with 24-7 Prayer, right like non-stop uninterrupted prayer So people would have to take shifts like two or three hours shifts To keep the flames going Right, and then you would often have life worship music going on as well. So That was my role John I was a prayer leader, and I would take these two to three hour shifts and I was part of two houses a prayer So the first one was led by you started and led by Lou Angle and we met

At a building called Mont Auditorium. I don't know if you've ever heard of that place But we were the motley crew

We were fondly called the motley crew of Lou Angle and we literally met at a building called the Mott and

Mott was the location for Harvest Rock Church back in 1990 for when the Toronto blessing came to California. And remember that last podcast we had where the dogs were barking, the lions were barking, the people were shaking, and all heaven broke loose.

And it was fun for me. I was in my 20s, and when Lou Angle started his tour, 21 day fast, 40 day fast, that's bringing the revival because this is it, it's imminent. And he's been seeing, it's imminent for the last 30 plus years.

Still waiting, we're still waiting. But back then, I remember in the mid 1990s, I gave my heart and soul into this house of prayer. The other house of prayer that I was a part of was started by Cindy Jacobs, and this couple that I talked about, who were my last nor pastors.

And the building was in little Tokyo. If you've ever been to downtown LA, there is Chinatown, and not too far from it, is a place called Little Tokyo. And why is that important? Because that is the same location as the historic Azusa Street mission where revival broke out in 1906.

So like I said, it's all about geography, right? So Cindy Jacobs wanted to be right smack where it first started. So both of these leaders, Liu and Cindy, were like my trainers, my mentors.

So I want to back up a little bit to 1991. My husband at that time and I decided to move to Los Angeles because Che and Su on kept saying, it's time for revival.

So we sold everything, we were living in Maryland. I was working for a PDI at that time, if you recall. But we moved everything, we moved clear across the country all to be a part of what God was doing.

This was the place to be. Now back then, I didn't know what a prophetic intercessor was, but I was told, that's your destiny here, you're called. to be a prophetic intercessor. And you need to be part of the spiritual warfare going on.

And back then, those were just mumbo jumbo. But I went through, like Harry Potter has his school of wizardry. So I went through my training school with Luangal and Cheon. And later on, Cindy Jacobs.

And I feel I'm kind of an expert now. So let me tell you what subjects we learned. Are you ready? I'm going to give you a list. Standing in the gap, building prayer altars, spiritual mapping, identifying territorial spirits, that's a big one.

You got to identify all the territorial geographic spirits and principalities. Because if you don't know who they are and where they are, how are you going to take them down, John? So that was huge.

Breaking of historic strongholds. So we're talking over individual lives. In this case, it would be called generational curses or over entire cities, historic strongholds over entire cities and nations, redeeming the land. And of course, cleansing entire regions spiritually.

I got so good at these things, John, that I actually taught them. I, myself, was promoted to be a teacher. And again, I'm almost embarrassed to admit. But that's how deeply immersed I was in this whole thing.

Now see, if you'd have told me before we started recording that you were going to end up describing to me how you were the dumbledore of the organization who's teaching the others, I don't know that I would have believed you.

It's really odd to me. So I am a Harry Potter fan. I'll openly admit it. And people can hate me in the comments because they always do. But I am a fan. I really like it.

And it's odd to me that these churches don't like it. Because if you know and understand the Harry Potter world, in the Harry Potter world, the things are happening in the magic realm that cascade down to the human realm, just exactly like they're describing.

In fact, whoever invented this whole spiritual warfare thing, I'm certain they got it from reading books like this. Maybe not Harry Potter, but something similar. Think about it. There are special people who can perceive things that others cannot.

Dumbledore is one of the examples. He has a special insight. And you look through the crowd at these new apostolic reformation churches. And you can pick out which ones are the Harry part of key figures in the movement.

There's just so many similarities it's uncanny. Yes, and I am a fan myself. I remember when my kids, the books were just coming out. And we would go to a school boarder's bookstore. I mean, who goes to bookstores these days?

Back in the day in Los Angeles, we had a bookstore called Borders. And my kids and I would actually be there at midnight just to get the next installment. And we would read all the book.

I mean, they were thick books, man. And we would read them for bedtime stories. And of course, when the movies came out, we watched all 10 of them. So trust me, John, I get it.

It's funny because I have a sister who was part of NAR as well. I don't know if she is still part of it. I'm almost afraid to ask. She moved to a different state.

But back in the day, she was so into it that she also said, don't read Harry Potter books to my kids. She would babysit them. And they would come home and say, you know, Auntie So-and-So said, we're not supposed to read the books.

And I think it actually added to the enjoyment because it's like you're consuming, you know, like these forbidden books. But I thankfully I never got into that, you know, I didn't go that far.

But anyway, let's go back to the NAR school of training. I'm going to put it that way. So why was I so drawn to becoming a part of this movement, you know, wanting to go to the training schools?

So if you've ever seen Lou Angle talk, okay? He's rocking. He's always rocking. And this is raspy voice. Revival is revival, John. You know, I'm terrible at impersonating him. But I mean, everybody knows this is a signature voice.

And like he's rocking with the rhythms of heaven. That's how we used to, that's how we used to describe it. Like, oh, he's so in touch with heaven, you know, like he's just so lost in that realm.

And there was something about that physical rocking, you know, the cadence of his voice. And just the way he was able to, you know, modulate his voice so that it just becomes louder and louder and more exciting.

And then he gets to that emotional climax. And then he says, and we get to be a part of it you know like there's nothing better you know and one of the things that he loves to say if not now then when and if not you John then who you know and when you're at 20 something and you're looking for your purpose in life and you love Jesus you're like this is it sign me out of you and and mind you in my 20s I was a young mother with three kids so you have to ask yourself where did I find the time to to go fast for 21 days no I never did

just water okay but I did like Daniel fast or whatever you know skipping coffee in the mornings so don't think that I'm like some kind of a martyr all right I I did my own kind of fasting 21 days 40 days and you know I would go to these these prayer marches around city hall around all the you know important buildings you know in Hollywood we would walk up and down you know that sidewalk with all the Hollywood stars um it's crazy it's crazy when I look back now like all the time I spend and let's not forget the two three hour prayer watches sometimes twice a week

so the why is important to to look at right now John why would someone like me be a part of that because I think young people want to do something important you know they they just really want to make sure that their lives are going to matter and and Lu Angle I mean he is masterful at making you feel like if you sign up for this you know not only will you get rewards here on earth you know because of course this is all linked to the prosperity gospel right so you know this is this is the key to success and you know God's

going to open doors for you blah blah blah but of course um you're always talking about eternity and in eternity you know you're going to be a general right like your secret general here nobody knows your general or your here but when you go over there oh can you imagine all the medals your you know your your uniform is going to be so full of medals you know they they won't fit and I think as as ridiculous as all of this sounds we ate it all up John it just seemed so plausible and um you know now I'm talking about the way Lu Angle

Well, talks, it has raspy voice. Well, have you heard Cindy Jacobs? Not much. Very high, shrill, screechy voice. You know, guys, you know, in the chastis word, busta, busta, busta means enough, you know, and it's really annoying, actually.

She's got us hot enough, busta. And I can scarcely listen to her anymore. It's a wonder I ever did, but I felt I had to, OK? I mean, her voice is not soothing at all.

You really feel like this is that, that, you know, like a drill sergeant, that's how she sounded. You know, like, I think for me, Luangal was more, like the visionary general. Whereas Cindy Jacobs sounded more like a screaming drill sergeant who, you know, like got you in your place and you got to know, you got to know this, this, this.

And she wrote a book that I read. Would you like to know the title? It was released in 1994 when everything happened, right? It's called Possessing the Gates of the Enemy, a training manual for militant intercession.

You can still buy it on Amazon. I checked. It's still there. It's a literal training manual for militant intercession. And again, that was like our handbook. So you've got Papaloo, you know, inspiring us.

You've got Mama Cindy yelling into our ears and somehow it worked because tons and tons of young people have been deceived for decades. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

You can learn this and more on William Brandham Historical Research's website, William-brandham.org. On the book's page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top.

And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William-brandham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

So, I'm going to let you in on a little bit of a secret. I've been studying this for multiple angles and I have started to form opinions on why things exist in the way that they do.

And it's not really what people think. And again, this is my opinion. It might be wrong. I'm offering my opinion so people can hopefully try to piece together what has happened to them and how and why.

It all comes back to the statement. You said, Mike Bickel came up with this idea of this 24-7 fasting in prayer. Actually he didn't. If you look through history, history is just repeating itself.

These guys, they knew the history. Paul Cain was part of the Laterane movement. Paul Cain was working with Mike Bickel. The Laterane movement had the Sharon Orphanage. The Sharon Orphanage had a bunch of children at their disposal, children whose minds are moldable and they created a strategy where they were maybe not around the clock, but almost around the clock.

They were fasting and praying. Some of them fasting up for 40 days. And this was going on. They were thinking that they could create a spiritual battle that would suddenly bring down heaven upon earth and fight the wars that were about to, they were fearing World War III.

So they thought they would bring down the battle of God against the enemy. That's really what they were doing. So think about this. Think about everything that you've just described in the first half of this.

Think about the cartoonish aspects of the key figures. Whether they're really like this in real life, I don't know, I've not met these people. But you can find other people who have a stage persona that is quite different from themselves.

And often it's very animated. And if you're trying to mold a large number of people to believe in your movement and quite frankly too fond of your movement, you go after children because the children their minds are easily moldable.

But if you gamify the religion, in other words, if you make it more exciting and fun to them, even if you don't believe in the stuff that you're doing, the children will believe it.

And so I believe when you look at all the spiritual warfare, you look at the lady that I talked about earlier who's literally claiming that a demon got in bed and said, I like you.

You need to get in bed with me. Who says this in a Christian context? I don't think this, if the person has all their mental faculties, which I don't know, if they do, and they really believe this, they probably have some mental health issues.

I question whether they even believe it. But there are children who will believe it. And what happens whenever you train a child to grow up in the way that you want, they're going to be very dedicated to whatever you train them.

So literally, when they talk about building an army, you go after the children to build the army. And once the army is built, now you've got your funding because many of them will get into jobs and they'll have money.

You've got new recruits. who train other children, you basically got your entire platoon. And that's really what they're trying to create here is platoons of people, maybe not so much for God, but to keep the engine running.

Exactly. I'm glad that you went there because that is what was explicitly stated. You know, they didn't even try to hide any kind of language. They told us that we were the last days saints, soldiers, before Jesus returns.

So I think the problem that I have, the biggest problem I have, I mean, there are many problems, but probably the biggest one I have is the fact that all that pressure was placed on us.

It depended on us to make sure that we closed every demonic portal, every demonic door. And if we're talking about Los Angeles and Hollywood, that's a lot of, that's a lot of sinful doors there, okay, like it's like modern day, Sodom and Gomorrah.

And so we were busy. We were busy going to all these different places and, you know, decreeing and declaring and casting out demons and principalities. And the thing is, John, if you don't see the changes, right, if you don't see the societal reform, if you don't see even changes in your own life, you know, because I, that's what I want to go next, is personal deliverance.

You know, if you don't see those demons being cast out, you know, and you're actually in a worst state than you were, when you began all this, then the condemnation that you feel, right, the letdown, the disappointment, you know, like it's not the system, it's not out there, it must be me.

So let's talk a little bit about personal deliverance. I remember they would say, you need to make sure that you are, you know, like, like there's a, you need to have a short leash with God, right?

You can't be out there fornicating and, you know, you can't be a homosexual and, you know, you can't be looking at porn because if you are trying to shut down the spirits of lust in Hollywood, but you yourself are sexually immoral, then you can't expect God to listen to your prayers.

Right? Don't be a hypocrite, which is really interesting, right? These guys are saying, you can't be hypocritical. You got to say pure and holy for the Lord. So, I mean, again, think of the pressure, right? I have to be perfect. I can't even look at that billboard and trust me, there are many billboards in Hollywood. You don't have to go looking for, you know, for stuff to make you stumble. You look everywhere in Hollywood, in Los Angeles, and every billboard is going to cost you to stumble if you're trying to keep your eyes and your ears pure. So,

you know, so what that meant, John, on an individual level, you are on high alert all the time. You couldn't just walk down the street like anybody else, right? And think, oh, I'm just running to catch the train, you know? And I wonder how I should do that project, you know, at work. No, you're not thinking like that. You're praying. You are praying in your intercede. Like, Lord, protect me from all these evil people. And you're constantly thinking of saving the loss.

You know, you look around like, oh, these people, they're all lost. And, and it's just a very weird mindset. Like, it's very difficult to explain to someone who wasn't raised like this. But it really becomes your nature to be a prayer warrior, to be a prophetic intercessor, to be a deliverance minister. So, okay. So here's my big beef about personal deliverance.

Do I believe in demons and angels? Yes, John, it's, it's in the Bible. Okay. So, yes, I do. But the way that we were taught to cast out demons, a lot. Like, we're not talking, you know, once in a blue moon, I mean, this was almost a daily occurrence where we were casting out demons from each other. And of course, above, you know, in the spiritual atmosphere. And I'll give you an example. So let's say a guy walks into the church. He's a brand new Christian. And he's dealing with alcoholism. So the deliverance minister will say, well, brother, you've got the spirit of

alcoholism. And you probably got it from your father, right? So there you go. The generational curse. You know, the guy thinks, well, I did see my dad drink, you know, quite a lot of beers back in the day. It's like, well, there you go. That's confirmation.

And I bet your grandfather gets all the way back in your ancestry. So we got to go all the way back to the root of that spirit of alcoholism. And then you have to ask forgiveness from your ancestors, because they didn't know what they were doing.

And then just cast it out, and that's it. That was their cure. Well, surprise, surprise, it doesn't work, John. Because you're still going to go back, and you're still going to drink. And then your wife leaves you because you're drinking.

And so, you know, the pastor and the deliverance minister is saying, well, you know what, it's that darn generational curse of alcoholism. Let's schedule another deliverance session for you. And how about trying AA, you know, how about seeing a therapist?

You know, maybe there's a root behind why you drink so much. You know, I mean, psychology, psychiatry, it's out there. I actually did a little bit of research. Do you know that there is a gene?

There's a gene that scientists are calling the alcohol use disorder. But it's not spiritual, right? It's in, it's in your DNA, and it does get passed on. And it accounts for about 40 to 60% of your overall risk of being an alcoholic, if you have this particular gene.

But there's still the other percentage to, you know, to account for. So yeah, maybe watching your dad drink a lot, maybe you decide, hey, if I have a problem, I'm going to do what my dad did, I'm going to drink.

So why do we have to overspiritualize everything is what I'm trying to say, you know, there's got to be, you know, within our, it's always the devil behind every bush. And there's a lot of bush, so you got to walk and make sure, oh, there's one there, I know there's one there, like that, that funny story that you just shared about the witches flying around this poor woman's room, like there's so many.

Well, if you are obsessed with that, like if that's all you think about, then of course you're going to find demons and witches and warlocks and all kinds of wizard, wizardries everywhere, you know, because we do live in an evil world.

And I'm sorry, but a lot of it is just plain old human nature. It is our flesh, and why don't we deal with that? Like, that's what Paul said, crucified the flesh. That's work on that.

You know, I think all this over emphasis on demonology really takes away personal responsibility and accountability. You know, Pierre, you have convinced me something in this podcast that nobody's ever really convinced me. I've always wondered where it came from.

I'm a music lover and you have convinced me now that generational curses is the cause of every country music song. You get the generational curse. Your wife's gonna leave you. Your dog's gonna leave you.

You're gonna lose your truck. It's unbelievable. You know, here's the thing. Everything that you have described, still I'm laughing because it is a Harry Potter world that they have created. But think of the difference between the Harry Potter world and the world of Christianity.

And this is why I knew Harry Potter world was fictional because it doesn't really match what you read in the Bible. So anybody who's saying these demons of Harry Potter are gonna get you, it's because they have modeled their Christianity after the Harry Potter world, not after what the Bible is.

If the model left the Bible like you and me, they could watch it and enjoy the children's show, right? But in the Harry Potter world, there are cosmic forces that you're constantly battling. You can't see these cosmic forces.

They're out to get you. In the Bible world, Jesus has already defeated. He has enacted the decisive victory that has already conquered all of this. So we're living in this world. We don't have to fear all of this.

If you're a Christian, you believe what the Bible says. The question really remains for me. And this is on the serious note, is it Christian? Can you be a Christian and not believe what the Bible says about God already?

When he said it is finished, did you just simply not believe him when he said this? I mean, it comes down to that question for me. I'm sincerely of the opinion that most of the people who are preaching the spiritual warfare stuff really don't believe it at all, but have found that it is a good way to train children to believe of the same mindset.

Maybe that's okay. If you're doing it for a good purpose, I understand why you did it. But the question for me is the mindset actually Christian. If it's not, everything that you're doing to these children is so wrong, it's so bad what you're doing.

And it's gonna lead them down pathways that's going to ruin their lives. That's why we have our Friday stories where everybody's sharing their story. Everyone who's on that, our stories segment or the podcast, they're talking about all of the things that happened because their lives was destroyed for things just like this.

And, you know, yeah, it's on a more serious note. I think the danger really lies when someone has serious mental health issues. And you think that one deliverance session is going to... to cure that person, that you can actually pray away as schizophrenia or suicidal ideations.

Or in my case, I came from childhood sexual abuse. And then I was domestically abused in my 20s. And no wonder, by the time I was 30 years old, and I had already gone through all this training, and I had already been trying to pray away all of the pain, all the negative emotions that were coming up.

I remember going to my pastor, Cheon. And I told him about my childhood. I told him about what my husband was doing to me, behind closed doors. And he just kind of slapped me with a Bible verse, well, the oldest God, the newest God, like move on.

And then he cast out a spirit of anger and a spirit of unforgiveness, because I was telling him, I'm having a really, really hard time forgiving my perpetrators. And later on, he told me that I was being rebellious, and I had a problem with anger.

Well, who would it, Cheon? I mean, it took decades of therapy work and psychology work for me to really process all the trauma that I had been through, including spiritual abuse. So, yeah, I want to pause here.

And we're laughing a lot, which is good. Laughter is a great medicine for the soul. But in all seriousness, if there's anyone out there who's listening, and you are dealing with serious pain, emotional pain, mental pain, mental health issues that won't go away, there is help out there.

I mean, I was led to believe that I was too far gone, John. Like, I was just too crazy to help, because none of their deliverance sessions worked for me. So I must be irreparably broken.

And yeah, I mean, that is the most ridiculous statement ever, right? As you said, John, when Jesus said on the cross, it is finished. He meant that what we need is the... Blood, you know, Jesus is blood on the cross.

It really does cover all things, right? But it also requires us to get some help,

get some professional trauma and form help. And, you know, and obviously if it's Christ-based, if it's based on the power of the cross, that's actually what I do. I still, I know, I hope I'm not sounding like I hypocrite to some of my clients, but I still pray and pray away, you know, some spirits and I do interhealing and deliverance, but it's very, very different from what we're talking about here.

So I want to end with, for me, an example of where all this decreeing and declaring and, you know, cleansing regions spiritually, where it all just went crazy. The year was 2020. And I had just got plugged into this new nor church, new for me in Hollywood.

And you know what happened in 2020? It was elections. And so many nor prophets were saying, Trump is going to go for another four years, of course he is, right? Because like Cindy Jacobs said, like, Basta, you know, enough is enough.

God is using Trump, Trump is the trumpet. I've heard that so many times. He is trumpeting God's decrees and declarations. And we would have 24, 7 round o'clock prayer for the elections. And then what happened?

He lost. And what did they say? Oh, it was stolen. You know, those evil Democrats. So January 5th, you know, and trust me, John, I don't like politics. Okay, so this is not going to go very far.

But I just want to remind people or maybe tell people who don't know. It was my former brother-in-law, Cheon, who spoke in Washington, D.C. at a rally called Stop the Steel. And he said that we're going to get the elections back, right?

We're going to get the right precedent in the White House. And that the next four years, the Christians would rule and reign. Those are exact words that we would be ruling and reigning over America.

Because for them, synonymous to make America great again is to make America Christian again, right? And so where was all of this praying and fasting and cleansing the land and getting rid of all these demonic territorial principalities?

Where was all of this headed? It was headed into just one inevitability, John. And it was the rise of the last days Joel's army. It all was going to lead here. And everything you said about training the children, training the young, it's all to get them primed so that we could all come together in one big, whatever network.

And and nor wanted to be the it network, right? There's so many other networks, but, you know, according to the apostles and prophets of nor, they were it. And and and so for us, we were taught like that we would be like the little gods decreeing and declaring and, you know, once we get Los Angeles all cleaned up and Hollywood all cleaned up, then it would spread to all the other states and America would be great again.

And it would be clean and it would be, you know, we would be this, this, this lighthouse for all the other nations. And when I learned about William Brannum, it was almost shocking for me and you can definitely talk more into this.

It was like the exact framework of William Brannum, his manifest sons of God, where an elite group of end time believers would attain ultimate spiritual maturity. And they would operate as literal living manifestations of God with a spoken word power to decree and declare to judge, to heal, to heal and to deliver entire nations.

I got that from the internet and that could easily have been in any of the nor manuals because it just this light bulb just came on. Like, because I always wondered like. where, you know, let's just say we actually succeed and, you know, and Hollywood becomes Hollywood. We were always praying that way. Hollywood was really supposed to be named Hollywood.

This is going to be the Holy City. And I mean, can you imagine Hollywood becoming the Holy City? Like what universe are you living in? But they really believe that, right? And so, but I, you know, what I, what I failed to do back then was connect the dots. It's like, okay, let's say we do get all the soldiers lined up and we, we, you know, decree declare and now LA's cleanse and Washington DC's cleanse, you know, we're cleaning out this wamp.

And now all the politicians are now Christian, right? I mean, it's the whole dominionism thing. What happens if we actually are at the top of every mountain? All seven of them.

Now what? Right? Okay, so let me follow the dots here. Well, then we will be the rulers of the world. You know, we will be like, you know, like they didn't, they would never say this, but it's kind of like we are going to be the demigods. And then Jesus can come back. You know, then Jesus will say, well done, good and faithful servants, right? Like, yes, I wanted you to do that.

I wanted you to make way, you know, make straight the way for me. And, and that's good. I'm glad that you all got the memo that, that I imbued you with Elijah anointing. I heard that a lot.

You're all just like Elijah with all this superpowers in order to make the way straight so that Jesus can return. And so let's hurry up so Jesus can return. Let's, let's get this, let's get this earth cleaned up real quick so that Jesus can return. And like, when I saw that, that's when I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like I stepped on the brakes really hard at that point. And, and I just thought, okay, I need to get out of here. I, I need to leave the schools of wizardry and throw my manual for a militant intercession out and let me just get my head back

on straight because this is a very dangerous movement on a, on a, on a very wrong trajectory. And without even realizing it, you have connected the dots between the patterns that I mentioned in my opinion that I was going to save as the climax. You've already mentioned them. The first one is, without even saying this, if you can teach the children to gamify the religion, to train them what to believe, you can also teach the children to gamify religion to train them how to vote.

That's a big concern of mine. It's a true concern. The other thing you mentioned, which is, I hate to say it, it is the funniest thing. You mentioned this, what happens when you conquer the Seven Mountains, we'll think of how a video game works. When you get to the level end, you get to the level boss and you fight the boss. Then you go to the next level, you fight that boss. What happens when you get all of the bosses beaten? What suddenly you have game over? That's really what they have. They have built themselves up to this

gamified religion and nobody has thought about what happens when you hit game over. But in their model of religion, there's nothing else. That's really the problem because they have structured it as a gamified religion that matches the Harry Potter world. In the Christian realm, it doesn't end like this. There's two different endings to this game and you can either choose the path that's in the Bible or you can choose the path that's in NAR.

So thank you so much for doing this. You're welcome. If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Brandom.org and pahugoministries.com. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available in Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.