From Serpent Seed to Lizard People: When Prophecy Becomes Conspiracy

Music Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Brannum Historical Research Podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Brannum Historical Research, and with me I have my very special guest, Daniel Bright. Daniel, it's good to have you back once again and to talk about this subject that you have put me into a place that I get back to in these corners that is hard to get out. Interestingly, Pia Ugo also put me in the same corner. She wants to talk about political stuff as do you, and I usually avoid politics at all costs, but there are some interesting links between

politics and history, and if I avoid them, I'm not really talking about history. And some of those politics go into this weird, I don't know, conspiracy theory realm. I actually did talk about this briefly in my book, and interestingly, YouTube blocks it if I talk about this. So if you're listening to this, there is a group that is anonymous, that their name starts with the letter that comes before R. So in this podcast, I'm going to call them R, but most people call them the letter before R. Before the sake of the podcast and for the sake of

YouTube and other platforms blocking me, the problem is it is history, but these groups have turned very extremist, and because of the extremism, they try to limit that. I don't want to focus on the group so much as I do the history that created the group, and some of that history, which I'll let you introduce what the actual episode is about, Daniel, but some of that history you can just trace back through time. It gets really odd when you do the work to trace the history. So with that, I'll open the floor to you. So the group we're talking about

today is R unknown, which we can call them. They first came about more or less in 2016 during T1, and they ended up participating in a protest outside of certain capital around January a few years back. And a lot of people noticed at the time, those with eagle eyeed or at least our leared amongst us would have noticed there were some nar flags around them. And when I first heard about this group, R unknown, I recognized very little about them. I hadn't come across any of these guys when they said they were meant to be Christians. So you might

have heard the R unknown shaman, the guy who already weighed hat on as well, and got rested inside the big building. But then after listening to you and reading what listening to you. book the youth wrote. I heard, I came across the name Sid Roth, said in that inimitable way.

You see, a man I realized that there was a guy in the movement called RR known, called the praying medic. And he was invited to the RR known conference in 2021 or 22, I believe. All of this was covered by a very brave British journalist who sent in someone else to kind of infiltrate the group and see what they're about. Now this doesn't mean that everyone in RR known was involved within R, but I think it's very telling that praying medic was invited onto Sid Roth's show and he was also speaking at the conferences or the, I'm only to get

the terminology correct here of the full gospel businessman. So within that kind of sphere that all of our listeners will be aware about. As soon as we hear the name Sid Roth, full gospel businessman, we know that's just like pulling all of these things, I mean that he's going to be a associated group with other people. He's not associated with Mark Driscoll or John Piper.

You know, if you suddenly go to names, it was a very specific corner of things. If praying medic was simply an evangelical Christian, we'd seen that the gospel business, sorry, the full gospel partner struts up in Chicago, we might see him with the Methodist or the Episcopals, or we might see him as a CVU. Is that a church C world, one of those big churches down the south, but he was associated with a very small corner of Christianity, which we call branemism, and that is the focus of, you know, his background, that was very much his leanings,

and it doesn't really surprise me that he goes in for all of that, that he was associated with those kind of people. I haven't really dug much deeper into R and on, R unknown than that, because, frankly, all of this stuff is a bit weird, but he, here's was the only name who jumped out to me from that conference, who was the most openly Christian amongst all of them, and when I had a quick look on the praying medic's website, it was like a true sort of of Donald's Big Mac smoothie of terms, which is everything we talk about. It was just,

I can't remember any of the specific ones now, but it was all about vision casting, mandate, and seven this and five that, so the terminology he's using is very much rooted in the NAR, and the seven mountain, but it's mandate, late stage banemism.

It's funny, because I do these episodes by myself that is connecting dots, and it helps people to put together where my head is at when I put out all of this research, because I'll go down one pathway, I'll publish some facts and random associations, and people think, what are you talking about, John? But then when it all comes together, they see the bigger picture, this actually is one of those episodes of connecting the dots, and it's probably the first one that I've done with someone, so you get to be the first. But like I said, I did mention this

in my book, briefly, because I don't want to talk about it too much. People, when you start talking about things that people are talking about as conspiracy, theory, they link you with the conspiracy theorist nut jobs. I don't want to make that link for myself, but there's a reason why those conspiracy theorists exist. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with this area of research, I highly recommend that you go on YouTube or you can go into the bookstore, look for Andre Gagne, Andre Gagne. He has been actually a guest on my podcast before. You can

watch that episode. He's the author of American Evangelicals for Trump, Dominion, spiritual warfare and the end times. And for all of the audience who just said, I'm going to shut John off because he said the word Trump and it was in a critical manner. You can shut the podcast off because we're going to talk about Trump. You cannot disconnect these two. It's part of history. And I'm just going to put that warning out there. If you're a Trump follower or a fan, I'm going to be talking about the actual recorded history. And it is highly critical. And you can be highly skeptical because

this stuff is nuts. I'm just going to say it outright. But continue on study Andre Gagne. Also go and look at Lance Walnell. I'm not saying believe what he says. But if you make this connection, what what Gagne brings is all of the NAR Dominionism as it relates to Christian identity, which I'll talk about in a second. Lance Walnell. He is the one who brings the Seven Mountains mandate.

Study Johnny in low. He takes prophecy. Seven mountains. Political interpretation. He brings all that together. Study Dutch Sheets, which we've talked about. I've talked about a few times in the podcast because it's directly related to the history. But he has this intercession, spiritual warfare stuff that gets into this ecosystem. Cindy Jacobs, obviously, you can't talk about spiritual warfare and not mention her. Bring her into this. But interestingly, bring Michael Flynn in.

When you make this weird combination, you have this entire ecosystem that is talking about are are whatever was you said are unusual. I'll say it like that. So here is the bridge that you can build by doing all of this. Lauren, Lauren Cunningham. I actually just recorded a podcast earlier today. It'll come out. I can't remember if it comes up before this one or after this one.

But Lauren Cunningham is holding a revival meeting with Ern Baxter, who was William Branham's campaign manager. So this is a significant connection. Baxter is one of the five heads of the shepherding movement. While Cunningham is part of the Seven Mountains mandate crew, and he's building this big bridge to Seven Mountains worldwide through youth with a mission. So thank Lauren Cunningham. Then thank seven spheres. Thank Lance Walnell. Go to the seven mountains, and then to Nar political spiritual warfare. Once you connect all of that bridge on both ends of it, you have elements of Christian identity, which I do cover that in my book.

But think about the things that these people believe, like the lizard people. Seriously, I can't believe that I have to say this on a podcast, but there are Christians who believe in the lizard people. And think about Christian identity, the belief that there is, there is two races of people on the earth today, good and evil, and we can't detect them.

Well, that's part of the framework for this R group. And to make it even wilder and crazier, if you go to Carisma Magazine, which is the big charismatic publication, just type in Katie Sousa. And look at the weird stuff she's publishing, like outer space invasion, the star gods.

There's all kinds of weird stuff. It's been mentioned forever. And people look at that and they think, well, that's crazy. And that's extreme. Look where they've headed. But it's not that they've headed. They've always been like this. You go back to the beginning of the Revival, and you've got Gordon Lindsay, who's publishing the UFOs are coming. The UFOs are coming. And you can follow that trail throughout history. They've always had this connection between the outer space realm, the political realm, the we want to take dominion, and we're going to do it through spiritual warfare realm. And there's a hidden enemy among us. So when you combine all of those elements of

history, which we'll talk through today, you have the recipe for R. Yeah, R unknown. Yeah, I think it must be quite difficult for you to sort of remember these great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren of William Branham. But once you realize how closely associated with these people, it's not guilt by association, it's guilt by involvement, deeply involved and deeply intertwined with each other. And I think what works best is examining what's happening now in light of what came before.

And a very good example of what's happening now is going way back to biblical times, which is the early 19th century in upstate New York, with a young man called Joseph Smith. He did all of this before, and you might think, Joseph Smith, where did he get all this wacky stuff from? A lot of weird stuff was going on in New England, and indeed New Canada, or New Brunswick and all of that. And so he was influenced by a lot of weird stuff, a book which I recommend a lot of people read was written by a woman called, I can't remember her name now,

but it's no man knows my history. It was written in the 1950s by a mother of five in her late 20s, and somehow she managed to go around doing the kind of research that would put you to shame, John, because this was all before the internet. So she was going around you know, finding a newspaper articles in libraries and saying, what did people say about Joseph Smith at the time, who was he associating with?

Who is he talking to? And he was talking to a sort of communist cult that was going on in New Brunswick and that influenced him. And eventually, Joseph Smith's ideas led to him wanting to form a political movement in Missouri and then getting defeated by the local militia.

And these things are crazy. And people might think, that sounds familiar to something which happened a few January's ago. Yes. But we can only talk about that in a sort of circumventual way. And what happens with these movements is that they tend to start with really wacky ideas that Joseph Smith also preached at, not the lizard people, but he said it was a serpent seed.

It was all the way back there with Joseph Smith that you had the Adams race were the one third, no, sorry, not Adams race. There was the one third that were fallen from Satan and that was how he said, not necessarily the black people, but there were two races of weirdo Indians and all of it was made up in North America.

Sounds a bit silly, but the serpent seed was present there with Joseph Smith. And he, it all went towards wanting political power ultimately and that Mr. T, so as anyone who gets offended by the real word, isn't the author of all of this.

He's become the kind of talisman, the person to rally around, the great Wi-Fi router that everyone's connected to. And forces have gathered around him, which as you're saying believes in lizards, a very strange sidestep there is that the current sister to the King of Norway, because the King of Norway died last week.

The new King is walk on the 8th. His sister is married to a shaman who believes himself to be a lizard while he's half lizard. So if you think the British royal family's got problems, the Norwegian royal family is odd.

And so this lizard belief, I haven't particularly looked into the King's brother-in-law's beliefs, but I'm inclined to suspect that it might have been influenced by charisma and these sort of people, so they're present everywhere.

And I know some people have said in the comments and people at church have said to me, what qualifies me to talk about why I'm in all of these things? Just a quick recap.

My church is full of Y-Wam people. It's got the deputy of Y-Wam Norway, is it my church? The head of Y-Wam Norway is often at my church. His daughters go to nearby church and the son of Y-Wam Norway, the former one, he's at my church.

He's an extremely heavily Y-Wam church. I haven't been in. I'm just kind of like the pundit who stands watching by just going, goodness me, I'm glad that doesn't happen to me. And I hope that no one else knows I am.

Sort of rather than echoing a car crash, never been the car crash myself, seen if you happen. And look. at the history of all of this. I mentioned Joseph Smith briefly there. I just finished listening to, for you listeners now, I just finished listening to an episode that you put out with Rob about about the American Revolution was, you know, those rebels, as we call them, Britain. And you briefly mentioned about the politics there. And I learnt something fascinating there, which was that matey's great, great grandmother or someone was talking about a man who was

counter-balancing Thomas Payne to say, it is religious. We do need to build this country on religious foundations. Now, when they said religious, of course, they meant Christian. And I think that's a semantic problem because when you're surrounded by something, you're really going to name it because everyone kind of knows shorthand what you mean. So like in a democracy, people talk about a lot about the government. And they say, well, people in China or Russia talk about the government. Yes, but when we talk about the government, we were talking about democratic processes. And so in America that time, when they talked about religion, they weren't talking about

Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam. They weren't talking about the Christian faith. They weren't talking about let's, well, Aztecs, let's allow them in as well. And that made me think when I was listening to you, it jumped my mind forward to 1997, which is a short detour to English footballing history.

If you, if you listeners will bear with me before they will start shutting off, there was an England manager called Glenn Hoddle. And in an interview, he said, well, you know, some people are born without legs because of things they committed in a past life. Yikes. No one in England approved of what he said there. And he was sacked as England coach of the football team in 1997.

And that tells us two things, which was that he was propounding the doctrine of reincarnation, which is a Hindu Buddhist concept. But England, as a Christian nation, at the time said, no, no, no, you can't believe that doctrine. We don't believe that as well. We're not going to admit the we Christians, but essentially you are. If you're rejecting a Hindu Buddhist doctrine on what grounds are you rejecting secular grounds? So in that sense, in that instance there with Glenn Hoddle, he was being judged by Christian standards. And so my hot take on Christian nationalism has always

been it's not something I advocate. It's something I observe. And we see that in the foundations of our society that we reject the idea of reincarnation and calm. We don't like that. Another broader question would be if I was to die and I said, my will is that my wife is going to stand on my funeral pyre and we're going to burn her to death. People say, really can't really do that by what standards? Well, that's a Hindu tradition. Well, we don't allow for Hindu burial traditions where you burn a widow. Why? Well, because we don't admit that we're a Christian nation in practice,

we are. So when push comes to shove, when you've got specific religious doctrines specific to Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam, when they come into conflict with Christian teachings, a Christian nation like Norway, the US and Britain, always sides with the Christian side without admitting to their Christian nationalists. And I think the word nationalism simply has a difficult sound to it because it starts with shism and that sounds like fascism and communism. Whereas democracy, it doesn't have anism at the end. I would prefer to talk about Christian countries, but that has an unfortunate first syllable. So we can't really say

Christian countries, so we have to say Christian nationalism. For me, I've always thought nations are an undefined group of people, whereas countries are a geographic reality. I prefer the term Christiandom, which is a group of countries which say we adhere to whether we admit it or not Christian standards, like we don't believe in karma, we don't believe in burning your windows, or cutting off young girls, reproductive organs. That's not something we'd do. We'd all marry your cousin, for example. We'd adhere to Christian principles. You could call them secular, but that's just another way of saying Christian as well. So that pushes me onto what we're

going to talk about next, which is the early Roman Empire and Constantine. Because of your qualification, it does make sense to do that. In the R group, there is the concept of this reptilian people, and there are people who believe in this weird nonsense, but it doesn't mean that they all do. So if you're in this weird movement and you hear that and you immediately object in the comments, it's not that I'm saying they all are. If I remember correctly, that reptilian nonsense goes back to, I think it's David Ike, who came up with a notion and he popularized it,

but think of this, the entire concept was this, that there are these lizard people who are, they've been here for decades, they've been around us, they have the way of shape shifting into human form, and so they're taking over humanity and they're taking over positions of power.

That was the concept, and that was very compatible. So this R group has this hodgepodge of different conspiracy ideas because the whole thing is built on conspiracy. But take the history of this for just a second and take something else that you said, you can't speak with a wide sweeping brush, but there are things that you say that when you're talking to a specific group of people, they assume a certain type of thing. So go back in time to about the 1930s, they're believing in the Christian identity circles, they're believing the same exact thing, take the word lizard out and use the word Jew instead. They're believing that the Jews,

the false Jews, we can't tell which ones are false, they have come into the United States, they've taken over positions of power, they're doing it all across the globe, and they even printed this weird manifesto book, which I've mentioned a few...

times, the protocols of the learned elders of Zion. It basically was reptilian people 1.0, but they pointed toward the Jews. So this was a very compatible thing. Now, not all Pentecostals believe this, not all evangelicals believe this, but there were people like Gordon Lindsey who spearheaded the whole revival, who's speaking at their conferences, and many of them, according to the newspapers, you have different people like Branum, who was trained by people in Christian identity belief set. So when you mentioned the word Jew in that concept around those types of events, they all assumed the same thing as this reptilian

thing without the word reptilian. It was just false Jew. So it was a very compatible thing. And when you think about how this movement grew from this weird nonsense that I'm talking about into the charismatic movement, you can't say that all charismatic believe this, but you can say that many of the core ideologies, which are ridiculous, made its way into core doctrines. And those core doctrines developed into things, like I mentioned this in another podcast. I don't know what I talked about to you, but this lady is talking about how they had such a wonderful revival. And she went back to her Airbnb and Covins of Witches were

circling around her Airbnb. And people believe this nonsense, man. So whenever you have that type of mentality where you can invent a fantasy world and call it core doctrine, well, you can also build upon that fantasy world. It becomes almost like a Minecraft game of Christianity. Yeah. I know elsewhere you've talked about Christians saying they want to be against dungeons and dragons and all of this stuff, but they may just introduce the concept anyway by kind of wanting to live action roleplay, larping as being part of this. And that makes me realize that you're correct to clean up two different concepts,

which I understood that you also hadn't thought over clearly, which has been Christian identity and Christian nationalism, which has covered really well, which is that Christian identity says, we are a racial group that cannot be diluted. And we at risk of being polluted and attacked was my position of Christendom and Christian nationalism is our way of running countries. Seems to have worked rather well. As such, I can fully understand that lots of people want to come to our countries. And that's why refugees want to come to Europe and want to come to the United States. We should expect that to be the case. Whereas in

Eastern Europe, they were all fleeing millions fled east in Germany to get to the west because East Germany was atheist and secular and communist. It wasn't working. So biblically, dictators are always afraid of their slaves running away. That's Exodus, Pharaoh doesn't want his slaves to run away. So if you're in a country that's worried about how many immigrants are going to come, well, it's a good sign because you're doing something right. And if you're Russian, you worried about people, your own citizens running away. So, you know, which do you really want there? It's a question of how popular you are as a country. So, to reiterate, Christian

the identity is we're a racial in-group that's going to be threatened. Whereas Christian, my form of Christian atomism is we're quite a good form of society and we've done things rather well based upon these principles and therefore I can understand why people would like to come. Do you want to come? I think it's quite good here. So, that's how I would like to draw to close that section where we're talking about our unknown. What was brought up with what was listening to previously by Christian nationalism was Constantine in 325. And I know John, you've got

a deep interest in the early church fathers. So, this is towards the end of the early church fathers period. So, well, it's an Augustine is around that time as well. But 325, there's a lot of myths that happen around then, which is that the Council of Niceria was convened by Constantine.

But it was it was small the bishops who were under a lot of persecution at the time. A lot of these people came, you know, without a hand, without fingers or tongues cut out. And they were actually trying to define not the Trinity per se, but trying to define, trying to land and agree upon who they thought Jesus was. And for us as Christians is deeply encouraging to know that they voted, I don't know, 600 to 1, it wouldn't be in favor of, they land and they did vote that Jesus is the son of God, he is divine, et cetera. And you'll hear some people saying that that's when they

established the canon of the Bible. There is no canon of the Bible. There are lots of different versions of the Bible out there and I'm happy to read any of them. But Constantine's role was simply convener and it was mentioned in the public I listened to that at that time he made Christianity the official religion and he bought up, well he confiscated pagan property and gave it to the church. That wouldn't actually what happened. What he did was he gave the church back its property which the church had been painstakingly buying up. So that kind of turns it on his head. And we

need to remember the Holy Roman Empire is bought up there again, that doesn't happen till the 9th century. So a very short period shortly after Constantine, Christianity was the official religion of the Roman Empire. But the Roman Empire collapses in the West in 410. So you're only looking at period from well if it be today that would be living memory, say if the United States had become a Christian nation from 1930 then collapsed in 2010. You wouldn't say that's really long enough to talk about political power. So the Roman Empire was hand in glove with Christianity

in the West for only 80 years. So that's not enough time I think to say that Christianity was spreading through political power. Now I've talked a lot elsewhere about my favorite topic which is the monks and the monasteries and when people are talking about church power and land and wealth. We have to remember that a lot of this was built up when the pagans were just running around attacking each other with sticks and just poking each other in the eye. There was no civilization that they were capable of building. The Vikings came and just destroyed a lot of England and destroyed Celtic culture in Ireland and all that time the

monks and the monasteries were building up land. Independent of political power, there were no Christian kings in Britain at least until the early 8th century when the Saxons and the Angles were converting. So that begs the question, how did the monasteries accumulate all of this money and wealth? It's just because they got a job and they started working and I dare say a lot of Y-Wam that's might want to do that as well. It always comes back to Y-Wam, I would have been a bit of a jive to them. I think I've described Y-Wam the basis as a monastery. If only the

monastery's re-economic powerhouses were people worked and again I would reiterate this was before the Holy Roman Emperor. Charlemagne did come later on in the 8th century but by then the Vikings were attacking and Western Europe was plunged into political chaos for the 200 years.

So it's still asked the question, how did the church, I'm talking about the Roman Catholic church, how did that get the land, the money, the wealth, the education, teaching people who's despite political power, at least for the first 10,000 years. Things went awry between 10, 54 and 1517, but the first 10,000 years of Christianity in the West was independent of political power.

You're right, this is the area of history that fascinates me. See I grew up as a child that was a result of all of this weirdness that you're talking about. All of the ones that points back to the Jewish race, not the one that's pointed to the reptilians. Now I did watch the show called V from the 80s.

One of the best shows ever and the reptilian people come down and you'd have to watch it but it was pretty good. I think they remade it again in the 90s or 2000s. But we grew up in the concept that there was this false scenario that's being set up and what Brannum did is he traced it historically through time all the way back to the time that you're mentioning. What he was trying to say was basically the human race was infected by these people and they were swaying the church in the wrong direction. It's really awful. The whole Trinitarian doctrine that he was defying, he was saying that

it's not because of this, it's because the Catholics were coming to this event so that they could fight against the oneness people. That's really what his entire argument was. I was a little surprised whenever I started studying the Catholic church and found out, number one, the Bible that he held would not have existed without the Catholic church. And number two, everything that he said about them was false. Every single thing was false. So I started studying the history. I started reading the early church fathers. Not that I'm advocating for Catholicism, but I am advocating for historical truth in facts. If you have a preacher

that's swaying your doctrines based off of fiction, you've got a problem here and that problem is going to lead you straight to believing in lizard people. That's how bad this is. But we did believe this, but think of what the ancient world believed. So the people who were choosing what books came into the Bible, the Bible canon, those people are the same people that descended from people who believed in these gods and demigods. And they believed that the monarchs and the kings appointed were the interfaces to God. So in a way, in a strange way, they had a similar doctrine. And that's how all of the religious wars were

fought. We're fighting not against peoples, but we're fighting kingdom and domain. All of the politics and religion is unified. We're fighting against a unknown god or a named god. That's how they believed. Well, what? Branemism, what Pentecostalism, parts of Pentecostalism, I should say, what the Laterane movement tried to say was that this war has been raging on with these invisible forces for all of this time. And so when you go back and you piece together the history that you're talking about, you start to understand that's not quite what happened, but there are nuances to it. And some of their beliefs were quite skewed.

I started reading through some of the beliefs of the people who you would consider to be a good solid firm believer in the Christian faith in the early church. And some of the things that they believed are just so wacky that you wonder how did it develop in the way that it did for good. But it was a common mindset. So you kind of have to read through it, not as you would read the works of today, but from the mindset of an ancient person who came from a people who descended from people who believed in weird gods and demigods in a spiritual

warfare realm, much like the NAR has created. Yeah, you're right there. When it comes to some of the more, I guess, Amazon series three kind of books in the Bible, you've got the book of Enoch, which is accepted by the Ethiopian Orthodox church. And you've got the bell and the bell and the dragon and the latter part of Daniel as well. And even the book of Clements, it should be noted that all of the apocryphal, which is non-our standard Bible at the moment, there were as many manuscripts of all of those different books put together as

there were John. So the people following the immediate end of the apostolic era around the beginning of the second century, this is Polycarc, this is Titullian. They all said, well, all the apocryphal stuff, that's good, but that's very much sort of...

and or the Mandalorian, but the original episode is 406. That's still everyone talks about. You know, everyone talks about Empire Strikes Back. Now, I was thinking about the Mandalorian and the Andorne and all this and extra stuff. And, you know, what if that new one that came out?

Yeah, there's a lot of silly extra, um, the Star Wars stuff. That's the apocryphal we control it. Even people talk about canon in Star Wars. So, yeah, the Star Wars comparison is Empire Strikes Back, that's the original one. So, there were more copies of John than there were of all of this extra.

I don't want to say fanfiction, but I've always liked to say it apocryphizes itself when you start reading these ones. They're quite misogynistic. They're not the Gospels as well, for example. And it has to be remembered that none of these were written down and compiled at a time when the church had any form of political power, even close to anything. There was, this might interest you, which is very much off of topic, but there was a short lived Jewish kingdom of a queen who had converted to Judaism in northwest Iraq or northeast Persia in the Adiabena or Abelini. There's

different spellings for it. That's Queen Helena. And she sent, she sent grain and stuff to Jerusalem in a famine around 8070. So, just around the time of the disciples, in Acts 2, we read that they converts to Judaism, but they're also God-fearing Greeks. So, even before Christianity, there was a division between Jews and God-fearing non-Jews, monotheistic converts not to Judaism as an ethnic people. Jewish show identity, but they were converts to Monotheism. So, in that sense, the ground was fertile around the time of Jesus and just after for the Gentiles to appear. There already were

Gentiles Jews in that sense, but they couldn't be called Jews really there. So, the kind of belief in the Nephilim and all of that is certainly present at that time, because there's film that's just come out, isn't it, Odyssey by Chris Nolan, that picks up a lot of these things. And my belief is

a strange belief. Of course, I do believe in the flood, but around Greece at that time, there are a lot of very small elephants, and they found the skeletons of these elephants, and a lot of them were just had a big hole in the middle where their tussle comes out of, but because they was a dwarf elephant, people thought they were looking at the skeletons of a cyclops. So, that's where the legend of the cyclops came from. It was all sorts of bones and stuff found in their Greek islands. And so, a lot of these myths and stuff are dragon.

Wait, you know the idea now that dinosaurs might have had feathers, and you've got the idea of an eagle in Australia could go around with a stick in its mouth and, you know, carry fire to a different forest, to flush out all the little rodents, and that's who's to say of that, that eagle.

very, very big. One of these evenings didn't have feathers. That could be where the legend of the dragon comes from, I don't know. But I know that you've said elsewhere that the people of the kind of magic work is the early Pentecostalists of the Greek world. They were kind of faking the stuff in the temple, saying, here's the pools and levers and the smokes and mirrors. Here's my thumb magically coming off. This is what the performers were doing then. And they weren't saying, by the way, guys, this demon stuff is real. Watch out. No, he was just saying, look,

get a bit of oil, and you get a bit of baking soda and vinegar, and then that was the level of their chicaneery. William Brown would have felt right at home there. They really weren't saying that, do you be careful? You don't summon a right-hand path magic of the Zagrach.

That wasn't happening in the ancient world. It was even fake then. I mentioned before that I'm less atonist, but it does seem to be a kind of culmination of demonic activity around the time of Jesus. I'm not going to say Jesus is making up. I would never say that, but people around that time seem to be making it up a lot. And I don't know if they're always making it up because that makes me sound like a bit of an atheist. All the God stuff is made up. But there seems to be a lot more people

having to make it up than having to observe it if you see the difference there. And I wonder if the sign was in the ancient world and that carried forward. I've studied that and it's fascinating because in the ancient world, there was no real separation of church and state. Your church, your community was part of the religion and the religion was led by a God. And if you lost to war, it was because you had the weaker God. So there were people that would change cities and etc.

It got weird because there was this motivation by the ancients to portray their cities as more empowered by God. And so they would invent the demons. They would invent the devils. They would create this conflict that was more of a cosmic conflict than it was reality. And then whenever their religion was presented, we'll look what our God did for our people. We had this insanely difficult time with all of these gods and demons and demigods and whatnot.

Well, where it gets interesting is when narcissism starts to come into Christianity, because many of those same things were happening. But it was happening into Christianity. And so the Catholic church, whenever they started to come together and create the Bible canon, they had a little bit of difficulty because there were books that were just complete fiction. And how do you weed out the fiction from the not fiction? So they had to go through this voting process, like you said, and choose the Bible canon. That's how our Bible exists today.

But if you think about the way that the ancient world created this ten That's what fascinates me the most because if you look what happened with the laterane movements carried forward into the charismatic movement now the narer they're doing the same things they're creating this tension you've got witches flying around your Airbnb you've got you've got weird stuff man they're creating this fictional tension so that the believers can be empowered when they talk to others who aren't of their faith and say look my leader had a cover of witches that's flying around her Airbnb the problem is we don't live

in the same ancient world and so when you talk to somebody who's engaged critical thinking they're gonna think well that person's pretty crazy I'm not want to believe a thing that they say yeah and to sort of boom around you back to Lauren Cunningham I met him what I didn't mean I was there on the Y1 base in Norway during my more open period of Christian Christian belief I think it's 2018 or 19 it was around the 15th anniversary who's doing his touring around and the first time I had heard of the seven mountain mandate was from

a Christian in East London who'd been involved in some of the revivals with in quimbran and he was there with Paul Kane in the early 90s when Paul Kane actually came to East London to one of the revival meetings and this seven mountains mandate this was something I was thinking carefully about today is that there's a tendency in the movements like the send and Y1 and this is a good tendency where they're at the big event and they say some you're gonna miss you needs to be sent out here some to pack when you're beginning a lot of

you're gonna go to Hawaii but then they sort of there's something that clicks inside them and they say ah but we do want to be reaching out to a local communities good we want to be involved in a local church good and we want to be you know get involved in education and we want to get involved in local politics because of the seven mountain mandate ah we don't need to call it the seven mountain mandate but I think the seven mountain mandate is strangely enough I think it's a mercy from God where God is trying to reach into this

NAR movement and say well okay if I call just getting stuck in the local church no one's gonna be interested in that but if you say a seven mountain mandate wow that sounds exciting it's what I do anyway I mean I'm involved in my union I'm involved my local community I'm involved at work and church and my kid is in and you know I'm doing the seven mountain mandate I don't call it that so it's this kind of gravitational pull you know those solar flares that go out from the sun they go out then they come down again

because the gravity is so much in the sun I believe the gravity of the one holy and Catholic us Potos apostolic church is so strong that it pulls all forms of Christianity back into it.

The weirdest of Mormons, they had to drop the polygamy because the gravity of global Christianity pulled them back in, it said, oh, none of that, please. And even the Jehovah Witnesses, some of their wacky stuff, global Christianity, oh, no, no, we don't do that, come on.

It get a bit normal, normal. So the modern NAR, they've dropped the lizard stuff and the bloodlines. But now they're talking about seven mountains mandate and Lauren Cunningham's like five utterances or is Christian Magna Carta is good stuff of what he said.

I would do thumbs up to that. And I would almost positively say that the seven mountains

mandates that we need to conquer the mountain of culture. If that language works for you, okay. But I just call it getting a job in the entertainment industry. And I'm working as a Christian in that situation.

You know, we must conquer politics. You know, go on a march, we can do. But when you get involved locally in politics, you're talking about zoning law and doing very boring things like same to people.

I'm very sorry, but that stone slope that you installed in your garden is against the local environmental laws because it's going to lead to more surface water run off the flooding. Very boring stuff.

You know, the kind of people who want to get involved in politics, they would say abortion or these exciting things. It's about surface water run off into local water courses that are going to reduce flooding in the long term.

That's Christians in politics. Conquer that mountain. And I guarantee you only about three people be at those kind of town hall meetings. So that is, I am positive to the seven mountain mandates. I'm just always intrigued that these great big events, they end up looking for something that resembles kind of vague rural Anglicanism, Church of England stuff.

You do go to church on the Sunday, yes. But it's closed much of the week because you're involved in your community. You're going to the parents and toddlers group. You're helping out in the super kitchen.

You're inviting the homeless to your church at Christmas. And yeah, you could call it a mandate if you want to. But I just call it very normal Christian living. And so I do hope that at the moment, fire and fragrance and while I'm going separately, consciously separating.

And I hope that the fire and fragrance will kind of burn out in the fragrance somewhere else. And the while I'm proper will carry on its local community-based vision. I hope that that's the direction it's going to go in.

And finally, I know that people always appreciate the Tolkien references in the comments. So it's thinking today, how can I bring Tolkien into this? And so I think, well, surely, how can you bring the Bible into this?

Oh, nothing's so passat. But I think when it comes to Tolkien. His vision, if it would be strange for us to talk about Elvish nationalism and lorian and what collateral once. But ultimately, Galadriel rejects the ring when it's offered to her.

She rejects the political power. And so does Eowyn. She participates in slaying the witch king. She killed the real lizard and the other race of walks. But what's her dream at the end of the book?

She says she wants to become a gardener and settle down and get a house. And that's still the vision I think we should be going for. That the Seven Mountains mandate we need to storm the capital.

We need to participate in our unknown. This big group and the movement is going to send you elsewhere and you're going to be turned into an acolyte. And ultimately, you're not going to be doing anything more darker than supporting an orange-looking man with yellow hair, Mr. T.

He's just trying to get rich. So he's put in all you're doing is trying to support a couple of old men that want lots of properties around the world, you're not doing anything more dramatic spiritually than that.

But the real fight, the real battle is how are you going to fix the roof on your house doing the guttering, mowing the lawn, helping your son to learn to read? That's my eight-mountain mandate.

And I think that's a far more difficult call than being told, get on the bus and go to the capital and protest. Because that's how these groups end up. Joseph Smith did it before.

And the Christian identity people have tried to do it. But for me, that's my mandate. That's the smallest scale kind of Christianity that I have for Kate. Want to wrap it up, I'll bring Star Trek into the mix because we've not yet brought Star Trek in.

So you mentioned that you follow the seven-mountain's mandate. You just don't do it in the over-exaggerated way. You do it in the Christian way. And think of this. If you combine everything that we've said, go back to the narcissism, go back to the ancient world.

They're adding all of these fictional details to make the story greater and better and bigger so the enemy can see that they have the power. Well, there was this group on Star Trek that whenever they encountered them, they said, Shaka, who in the walls fell.

And the crew of the Enterprise had no idea what they were saying because they were speaking in metaphors and what they were doing essentially through the course of the episode you learned this. Their main form of communication was to give these exaggerations of stories that are similar to the subject matter that they're talking about.

And once they piece this together, they could see, OK, I kind of get what you're saying. But why are you talking like this? Which is basically how that worked. That's what is really happening here.

It's not so much that the Seven Mountains mandate if you take the Christian version of it. It's not so much that that's a bad idea. do want to be a good influencer. But what happens is they add all of these over exaggerations and color for metaphors and where this ends up is you have witches flying around your hair being B. You have people that just go insane because you're not sticking to the core doctrine. Your focus is actually on the metaphors and the stories and that's why you have God's generals. You have all of these tales that you're talking about. So instead of Shaka

when the walls fell you say God's generals when a Alan did this weird thing. So people start to focus on the metaphors is what I'm trying to say and they lose focus of the core values. And once the core values are out of focus for so long people forget them that's really the problem here. So as this movement has developed the core values took a back seat and everything that made it seem over glorified and overspiritualized I can guarantee that many of the leaders knew what they were saying was over amplifying the actual events.

But they thought they were doing it for a good cause not knowing that they're losing core values by doing it. And at the risk of actually mentioning the Bible Jesus talks about the parably the talents where we've got the 10,000 the 5,000 and 1,000. And I know most people want to say well actually it's about how much money it's actually about your attitude to the person that's giving it to you is really what Jesus is getting at because the man who receives a thousand he says Lord I know that you're a hard-hearted man it doesn't give. He just gave 10,000 talents away so he's not that hard-hearted.

But Jesus's pictures and analogies are quite grounded and I remember saying in one of the comments that he's talking about labor disputes he's talking about farming he's talking about fishing and losing coins and losing sheep. These were things people actually did and so if I was when we're talking about seven mountains mandate we just have to bring the language right down to really basic things. What do we talk to chat GBT about that we should be talking to God about you know what stuff you better off lying about to your to your to your nearest and dearest

what do you think when you're on your own driving and how do you conquer those things and people saying create truth through the power of spoken word you know well proclaim your your closest sins to your accountability partner speak that truth into being. When you bring your language down really low away from the analogies with that Star Trek race your language can really cut through people and when you just use short sharp Anglo-Saxon language which I'm very aware of from the speak of the region as much as I do English. So that's what I always contrast is

Jesus isn't talking about conquering seven mountains mandate he's saying you need to master your heart you need to teach these things to your children when you're walking along the road. that's what the Old Testament talks about. And so ultimately, you know, and very much to conclude with, I would say that's that's what I hope that we can conquer nosticism and conquer going to Hawaii and just get involved in your local community, read the Bible, read Lord of the Rings and watch Star Trek, you know, just to understand the core, the core foundational documents of the Western world. Well, to build on what you said, Jesus came and told the disciples to

spread the gospel. And so they're spreading it to a people in language that the other people can understand. If you think about the metaphor analogy, if you think about what the movement has done, they're creating a new language in doing this. They're using all of these things. We're thrown out a few of them, has spoken word, the Rema, different things. How are you going to spread the gospel if they don't even know what these things are that you're talking about? But yet to you, that's part of your core personality. That's your shock of when the walls fell. You speak it

so fluently among your peers, how are you going to spread the gospel like this? That's that's the main question that I was building up to. So so much more we can get into. I feel like we've covered all bases in everything and every fictional character in this episode. Thank you so much for doing it. Thanks. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at William-Branham.org. For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR,

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